#not trying to hate on asgore i hope this doesn't come off as it

[luifaro]

I don't think she intended to endorse the second plan, and that her argument was more "If you really wanted to free monsterkind you wouldn't have sat on your throne and waited for more humans to fall down when you could have used a human soul, crossed the barrier, and killed six more." I think this is why she considers him a coward, because he didn't even try the most effective strategy, making it clear he doesn't want to free monsterkind and is letting them keep their hope through a lie he told them. That lie was that he would free monsterkind with seven souls and eradicate humanity.

Asgore also makes it clear he doesn't want to live up to his promise as he will literally kill himself in front of you if Flowey doesn't kill him so you can leave the underground. I think what Toriel wants him to do is to be honest with his people and admit that he never wanted to eradicate humanity or free monsters from the underground, that would take real courage.

Transcript: I dislike "soriel" and i feel bad for asgore he killed those six humans but he didnt do it out of pure evil he did it because he had too he definitely didnt enjoy it and regretted it

And when toriel mentioned that asgore could've absorbed and passed the barrier to gather the other six and whose to say she wont be as angry if not more if asgore did pass the barrier to collect the other six

And its not like toriel succeed in protecting those six herself

[woomeme-land]

Ummm uhhh lemme ramble about my dead children and teenagers thank you very much

For starters they all come from the same village with a heavy anti-monster sentiment. It's not EVERY village who has this sentiment, just that particular village. Also it has some cult mentality in there

Under cut lol

Carmine Schmidt/Chara Dreemurr

Hope

Born Oct 31

9 at fall, 12 at death

AMAB NB | They/Them

Was considered 'cursed' therefore outcasted and picked on a lot

Liliana would constantly talk with (TO) them, talking about the Bible and try and 'cure' Chara of their curse

It only pissed them off and made them hate religion

Sometimes hung out with Liliana, Brooklyn, Jacklyn, Shannon, and Damien (they hated that.)

Went to the mountain to disappear and fell

We all know what happens next

Good intentions, horrible execution of plan

Trust them buttercup poisoning is an awful way to go

'Humans are dangerous and awful and shouldn't be trusted.'

Liliana Hernandez Garcia

Perseverance

Born Dec 24

11-13 at death

Cis girl | She/They

Raised in Catholic household

Friends with Brooklyn, Jacklyn, Shannon (Lyric's mother) and Damien (Lyric's father). They also considered Chara a friend (it was not reciprocated)

Stood up for Shannon when she was being bullied

Saw Asriel carry Chara's body and went to Mount Ebott for answers like three days later girlie are you stupid

Did a Very Rude Pacifist (wanted answers, not get all buddy-buddy with 'demons')

Brutally killed by a Royal Guard in Waterfall

Their death is what prompted Tori to leave

Love thy neighbor until you're a monster then it's just Keep Yourself Safe

'Monsters are Ontologically Evil™ beasts' (doesn't actually know what ontologically evil means)

Brooklyn Jackson

Kindness

Born May 2

11-13 at death

AMAB NB | They/Them

Parents weren't all that great but their aunt and uncle were amazing

Pretty damn vegan

Was out of town the week Asriel came and Liliana went to Ebott so they were shocked to hear what happened

Went to Mount Ebott to collect herbs and try take their mind off of Liliana and Chara's disappearances

Did a Neutral (somebody (I mean somebodies) had to die)

Got heat stroke trying to outrun the Guard and died

Secretly agrees with Liliana's radical anti-monster sentiment (would never say it out loud)

Wants to forgive, forget and move on but finds it hard to

'Monsters... Are really something. (they're beasts).'

Jacklyn McBean

Bravery

Born Aug 18

12-14 at death

Gender means nothing to this bitch but They/She

Just appeared one day and never left

Orphan up until age 10 they were adapted by this widowed man

Behavioral problems that were temporarily dealt with

Joined Da Squad somewhere around 4-5???

Okay okay either they were sent up to Ebott by the leader to 'put the demons in their place' or just randomly went up there

Either way she was incredibly reckless and hostile

28 killed, 14 injured

Either a Merciless Neutral or Aborted Genocide

Either way they got humbled halfway through Waterfall and decided to lay low

Got to Hotland and fought the gaurds with little to no healing items

Dumbass

'Monsters suck n all but I ain't better dan dem.'

Amari Chandler

Patience

Born Jan 28

10-12 at death

Cis guy | He/They

MAMA'S BOYYYYYYYYYYY

Friends with Lyric and Clover (besties)

Wanted to be a swordfighta

Found Chara's locket and dagger in the Ruins (the annoying dog happened) and replaced the ribbon and toy knife with those

Didn't really trust Toriel but stuck around the Ruins for almost a week before homesickness came in

Tried to betrayal kill Toriel, obviously failed because she's still alive

Bit of prick energy

Can cry on demand

Any monster who approached got the betrayal kill treatment

Just pretend to be this weak lil kid that wants to be left alone, and strike when their guard is down

6+ betrayal kills

Anyone else who just wants to chat was spared

Got to Asgore

Asked to leave

Nope.jpg

'They're demons. That's all they gonna be to me.' (Doesn't actually believe this, does he?)

Michelle 'Lyric' Chapman-Roffe

Integrity

Born April 18

12-15 at death

AFAB Librafeminine | They/He/She

For some reason, people really hate their entire family

Inherited Ma's birthmark, which people considered a Devil's Mark

Her older brother have unspecified developmental disorders

~~lyric autistic???~~~

Anyways people really hated the family

Well, save for a select few

Amari and Clover were, and still are, his besties

Daddy's Kid

Was pretty distraught at Amari being declared missing and later declared dead

Met this old widow who happened to be a former ballet instructor that's still in touch with plenty of her students

Free/reduced cost private ballet lessons

Shit went downhill tho

Old widow dies, ballet instructor forced to move away, Amari going missing, people hating the fam more

Despite his family and Clover's best efforts, their mental well-being continued to deteriorate

Until it became too much.

He went to Ebott and saw the hole and purposely fell in

They just randomly blurted out their name was Lyric when they met Goat Ma and she stuck with it

Toriel was friendly, too friendly in Lyric's eyes. Probably planning on eating them.

Explored the Ruins, trying to learn more about the place, fell into a bunch of dirt and ashes that refused to come off.

Anyways they managed to find an exit and entered Snowdin

Uh oh.png

Some monsters managed to recognize Lyric as human and saw the ashes + dirt that looked too similar to monster dust and assumed he killed someone because the results and pain of Jacklyn and Amari's actions were still fresh

Lyric tried to explain but it fell on deaf ears

Eventually one of them blurts out the whole 'Get seven human souls to shatter the barrier and destroy humanity' thing

That sets them off.

If treating these demons the way she wants to be treated isn't working, then he'll have to treat them as they treat her.

As enemies.

6 of them were killed, seven injured, the other three retreated.

The ruckus brought in a couple witnesses tho

All they saw was a human attacking a bunch of 'innocent' monsters and sounded the alarm

Couple minutes and tons of walking later Lyric eventually breaks down into tears, homesick, stressed, injured, mourning the loss of one of their dearest friends, the sort.

Dalv heard the crying and... Due to the fuckin snowstorm (and that he's bit of a dummy dum dum (affectionate)) couldn't make her out to be human

So he slowly approaches, using his magic to try and console them

It only triggers their fight or flight response and they chose fight

Kicks him in the vampballs

Goes on a tearful rant on how all monsters are the same

Dalv realizes that this is a stressed out child and not some mindless killing machine and tries to talk them down

Lyric isn't fucking having it and prepares to attack again (most likely because he's assuming Dalv is just trying to trick them)

Kanako jumps in, tries to deescalate the situation

Lyric realizes that they attacked an innocent person, in front of a child no less.

Gives the two some cinnamon bunnies, apologizes, heads out

We all know what happens next

haha they didn't die instantly to axis

Took a bit

Dalv had the misfortune of witnessing it

Yada yada yada chujin was a fuckin idiot bla bla bla Ceroba fucks up, ye ye ye soul released

'I'm not a big fan of monsters. At all.'

Alexander 'Clover' Armstrong

Justice

Born Feb 25

9-11 at death

AMAB Demigender | They/She/He

Has elements from UTY but with some deviations

First of all her parents weren't comically abusive but were horrible for each other and thus were horrible for them

Also lived in a worn down home on the outskirts

Had an older half sister Alexandra, or Ivy (Totally not from Undertale Ivy's Justice no) that went missing one day (not on Mount Ebott mind you)

Ma n pa stopped talking about her like she never existed

Anyway both parents were trying to turn Clover against each other

And they almost grew up too fast

Met Lyric and Amari and instantly got attached

The Chandlers and the Chapman-Roffes were more like family to him

Cowboy obsession

Fake southern accent

Amari went missing, they cried. Lyric went missing, they cried.

Where were they?

Are they ever gonna come back?

Where did they go?

To Mount Ebott.

So did several others.

Clover got tired of waiting and set off

First deviation is that they're more dead set on their mission and don't stay with Tori... That often.

Sometimes they found the Echo Flower containing Lyric's last words

Sometimes it's bits of their body rotting somewhere (don't ask)

Waterfall was the farthest they got before The Fuckin Flower intervened.

Classic UTY shit

Then the Petalled Bastard told Clover that Asgore has dat soul collection goin

They're pissed off because that must include the souls of their BEST FRIENDS!!!

You'd think that she'd go full Vengeance at that point but...

He surprisingly doesn't.

Most of the UTY shit happens but when she spared Ceroba, she said she's going to the damn castle anyway.

The gang try to talk him outta it but Gunhat serious as all hell

Ain't no way Asgore finna get away with killing (or ordering the killing of) their besties

Over their dead body.

Oh yeah clover fuckin dies to the GOAT

Martlet asks Asgore for Clover's gun n hat and Asgore obliges

The funeral happens

'Well Ah'll say, them monsters are a colorful bunch. Still really hate Asgore though.'

Freya 'Frisk' Sanders

Willpower, Determination, whatever

Born Nov 7

7-9 throughout the whole thing

AFAB Neutrois | Doesn't care about pronouns they mean nothing to Frisk

Actually scared of everything that's going on

That bored expression is just a front they're scared and wanna go home

Sans talking about how great of a job he did protecting them... most likely sarcasm, right?

Then he basically threatened them... And brushed it off as a joke.

What the fu-

Anyways they did an Extermination Route next reset because they're mad... Up until Papyrus which they spared. Still killed Undyne and a ton of others tho

Snas judgement, Asgore fight, Flowey absorbs the souls, reset.

Frisk figured that mass homicide wasn't a good idea and does True Pacifist

I got places to go -> I want absolutely nothing to do with... A lot of you. Some of you are fine.

Remember kids mass homicide doesn't solve shit

Sorry about making most of them racist I got this idea from a bloke from reddit and I liked it

[askfriskandcompany]

Am I the only one who thinks that maybe Chara was controlled by us? The player? Because during the story, Chara is all the sudden good? they are now a skelton and Asriel is back as well. What is the cause of that? Why is Chara all the sudden good? Is there a plot twist waiting to happen? I'm sorry I watched Miamouse's videos and this was in my head for a while. I might have to watch them again. Lol.

Chara wasn't suddenly turned good. They've changed wildly over the course of their life and un-life and re-life. But the change was never all at once. It was a series of large and small shifts. It was like...

Before falling underground: Humanity is cruel and horrible and I no longer see the point in living.

After falling underground: Monsters are good and wonderful and I would do anything to help them. Also, the only way monsters can live in peace is if all of humanity was killed off first. Asriel doesn't get it now, but he'll understand when he sees their cruelty firsthand.

After dying: Asriel betrayed me. Asgore is a murderer now, and Toriel has forgotten about both me and Asriel. I realize now that both humans and monsters are equally messed up. I'm so upset.

Frisk first appears: Oh! A person who am somehow connected to. They're naive and helpless. They'll clearly die without my help. I'll help them fight for their survival.

Genocide Run Happens: *EXP-induced manic murdermode happens*

After Genocide Run: Wh-What? h- ...What the hell's going on??? Frisk! How dare you! (Frisk suddenly can't hear them) Stop ignoring me!!

After Pacifist Run: I now realize that there is a small but not insignificant chance that I'm wrong. I also respect Frisk now because of all they accomplished. So I will not reset the timeline. In fact I will make sure nobody ever resets the timeline again.

Red Echoes: Ah! Frisk! We meet again! Time for you to stop running from the reality of what happened in the Genocide Run. I fully expect this to break you. Oh wow now Sans is here. Well I'll just possess him cause I can do that now. This is a great idea I won't quickly come to regret AAAAAA!!! Okay Frisk, that was weird, but I think it's only a matter of time before you realize I'm right and the world sucks. It didn't work with Asriel but I think it'll work with you because..... Hey why is Flowey talking like Asriel? I hate that! I'm leaving!

Goopster Arc: So we're connected to another world for the time being. I'm going to find my other self and compare notes. They brought Lucida back to life, so maybe I can come back to life too? That's what I'm secretly hoping anyway. I'm also still shook because of Flowey acting weird.

MWSIH!Chara: You're an idiot and I'm embarrassed on your behalf. Asriel's soul is inside yours and you don't even notice you dumbass cringefail.

Maverick Appears Arc: Now another Asriel is here. I had a conversation with him and now I'm realizing how deeply I miss Asriel. Oh well, my new Calalied persona is prepared and now I'll be able to secretly hang with Frisk and........??? profit.....?? Anyway I'm definately doing this for an evil plan and not because I secretly want to be a normal kid who goes to school and has friends. >.>

Drunk Chara Arc: Another me. Time to compare notes again. ...Wait now they're unknowingly confronting me about my insecurities. Time to fall back into my old pattern of being scary and threatening! How dare they act like they're better than me! ......Okay now I'm reliving my deep dark traumas. .......Okay now I'm pretty certain that I'm an actual piece of garbage. I wish I could just forget it all...

Monsterland Arc: Hi I'm Calalied, a skeleton with no trauma. :D ...................................... Wait ....... Oh ... Nevermind I remembered the trauma again. ........ASRIEL???

Now: Okay, looking back at all that, I've come to the conclusion that people are actually a mix of bad and good. I've been given a rare chance at a new life, and I don't want to waste it. So I'm going to try my best to be happy, and to not cause harm to the people around me. Sans will probably never forgive me, and I'm frankly scared of him, but I also don't really blame him. But at least Asriel's here. I'm very happy about that.

...And that's the progression of Chara. XD

-TQ

[deltaswapjevil]

A Different Undertale: Main Cast Summary

Content warning:

Frisk: Climbed Mount Ebott when playing with their friends. Fell and got amnesia. Actually takes the name of the first fallen human because of this. Goofy and childish. Naive. Easily manipulated because of their amnesia and general nativity and gullibility.

Flowey: If a monster body can't handle determination how would a lowly flower be able to? That's the logic I went with here. The determination and continued resets take a toll on Flowey's body. Due to his constant suffering he views the world through a pessimistic lense. More like a travel buddy for Frisk, constantly manipulating them to their bidding. Doesn't actually want to harm anyone, especially not Frisk, as they feel genuinely grateful for their help, but steal the souls to try and stop or at least delay his own demise.

Toriel: After being banished to the Ruins she lost all hope and began to deteriorate mentally. Delusional and has blotchy memories. Still kind and gentle but keeps mistaking you for her children. Doesn't remember who killed her kids but knew it was someone she loved and trusted. Somehow she begins to believe you killed her children and that's why you want to leave so soon. Similar to Horrortale and Underfell Toriel.

Sans: His magic became too strong and due to a combination of over exertion, low stats, laziness, drug addiction, and his loss of hope, his body began to deteriorate. He's basically a walking body made of dust puppeted by his soul. The only thing giving him a reason to live is taking care of his brother. Using magic, including shortcuts, causes him great pain. Smokes and drinks. Buys drugs off Grillby. Similar to Underfell Sans. Eye glows....grey. One hit is all it takes to shatter him completely. In genocide he doesn't even need to dodge as he's basically just dust now meaning your attacks have no effect.

Papyrus: Suffers from extreme autism and ADHD. Has little control over his body and magic. Still an expert with puzzles but they're more of his pastime. Needs constant attention and stimulation. Sans usually keeps him on a child leash to make sure he's not mugged or shanked or something. However most monsters actually really like him and most gangs even help him. A shining hope in the underground, showing there is good out there. Similar to Horrortale and Axetale Papyrus. Almost completely mute only speaking in jumbled words and an occasional NYEH. Sans translates what he means to the best of his ability.

Undyne: The cruel captain of the Royal Guard. Ashamed of the person she's become which is why she rarely removes her helmet. Sent to execute innocents and usually follows through. Refuses to kill children or queer people (as long as being queer is their only "crime") so she "accidently" lets them get away. The only person who can access Alphys. Secretly lesbian but won't come out due to fear of being removed from the Royal Guard.....or worse. Stays in the Royal Guard only because she's afraid of someone worse taking over. Still hates humanity but comes around pretty easily. If anything were to happen to her friends she might just finally snap.

Alphys: A "criminal" due to possessing human objects, being bisexual, and also illegal experimentation (honestly that's the only real crime here). Ashamed of herself. Isolated and hidden in her lab which has high security designed to only allow humans and or Undyne. Due to her isolation she has terrible eyesight. "Sees" by sensing Infrared heat like snakes. Nervously shakes ALOT. Has a lisp and a stutter and just generally has trouble talking. Has a huge crush on Undyne but doesn't want to get her in trouble.

Asgore: Has a genuine hatred for humanity after they sealed his kind underground and cursed them suffering. A cruel leader who hates anything the humans made. Doesn't even burry the humans just stores their corpses in his corpse room to intimidate the next humans. Doesn't even want freedom. Just likes killing humans. There's a small bit of his original kind and gentle self in there. Similar to Underfell Asgore. Cold. Destroys the Mercy and Fight buttons. Forcing you to just stall.

Mettaton: He was able to avoid execution for being so....Mettaton by promising to "bring hope and happiness to the underground." In other words....he's a sex worker. Hotland has become one big strip club. Many monsters hate him because he avoided execution by offering over his body. He's viewed as a cheater and able to be free. But really he's just as trapped as everyone else. Forced to stay in his ex form 90% of the time and has come to hate it. He's also come to hate Alphys for ditching him. He's become almost as pessimistic as Napstablook now. He buys drugs from Muffet to cope but they don't really have an effect besides gunking up his machinery. His body was also made more sexually appealing and even more feminine. All of his dreams of acting have been taken away and replaced with an eternity of dancing poles. He's similar to Lusttale Mettaton and Angel Dust from Hazbin Hotel

Napstablook: After his cousin left their dying snail farm Napstablook turned to drugs. They smuggled them from Grillby's as they didn't want to be seen but at least they always left money on the counter on their way out. Unfortunately the drugs dont do anything for Napstablook because they're a ghost and the drugs are corporeal. If they would've asked for ghost drugs Grillby probably would've asked Muffet to make them since who would pass up an opportunity for a whole new group of customers but Napstablook doesn't like to talk to people and prefers isolation. They are also suicidal and similar to most Horrortale Napstablook interepretations they make a noose with their tears which is what they're doing when you first meet them. Unfortunately since their a ghost they can never truly rest in peace.

Monster Kid: Hangs around with other gangs who are a bad influence on the child. They're violent and aggressive. They still admire Undyne (though they pretend not to, to seem cool) and get under her skin and she comes close to killing them a couple times. They actually do die in the neutral and genocide routes. In neutral they fall off the bridge before anyone can save them and in genocide they are killed before Undyne can arrive. They are incredibly petty and jealous towards those with arms which is almost everyone.

Temmies: Tem has taken advantage of her intelligence. She runs a cultist gang of Temmies worshipping the all knowing egg. She keeps the loyal by manipulating them and getting them high on Grillby's drugs. She believes herself to be too smart for college and just wants all the money for the hell of it. Sends her Temmie hordes on heists and has them donate their riches to the egg's donation box which just so happens to lead to Tem's underground weapons shop. She sells great weapons at high prices and is a pretty influential terrorist of the underground. The only Tem she hasn't converted yet is Bob. He sits in the corner of the abandoned Tem Village (they relocated to a new area known as Tem Empire or Tempire) and thinks about how far he let things get out of hand....and if he should just follow everyone else.

Grillby: A drugs dealer in Snowdin. One of the kinder monster though. He's greedy and will kill anyone who pisses him off. But won't go out of his way to hurt anyone and at the end of the day he's just trying to provide for his family. He doesn't make drugs just sells them though sometimes he spices them up with fire magic. He's well liked in Snowdin....too well liked as he's afraid someone's gonna let slip about his underground operation. He makes sure to butter the dogs up with treats in his "apartment" and let them play poker. Misses his daughter but was forced to move away to Snowdin when Muffet threatened not to supply him with anymore products if he didn't move further away from her shop.

Muffet: Money isn't the root of all evil. It's people's greed that makes them evil. And none are more evil than Little Miss Muffet. Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet making her joint and weed. When along came cops who told her to stop but they're just food for her pet to eat. She makes all the drugs in the underground and sells them to other vendors only asking for a third of the revenue. She may sound like a great boss. But if you don't pay her in time you'll find yourself on the wrong side of her web. She already helped save the spiders from the Ruins due to her immense influence. She just wants the money to fill her putrid black heart. She may be cruel but deep down she's really just a scared little girl. Trying to prove herself to adults and not get pushed around. The only people who truly understand her are her spiders.

Mad Mew Mew: She's already transitioned due to her dummy body being destroyed in a fit of rage from Undyne and her finding this body dumped in the trash by the guards who raided Alphys human junk. Shes content with this body. But the underground doesn't take to lightly to queer folks. Asgore thinks it's something the humans made up and thus must be evil. And so Mew Mew is considered a criminal just for being herself. But if she's gonna be a criminal she might as well own it. She's gonna be the Undergrounds greatest criminal. Cause if she's going down she's taking all these other motherfuckers down with her. She leads a gang of other oppressed people and commits small misdemeanors and attacks those rude guards. Always being careful to avoid capture. She's one of the top crooks on Undyne's radar. And yet Undyne can't bring herself to capture and execute her. Undyne understands her struggles but doesn't agree with how she goes about dealing with them. They fight on the battlefield but in secret they hang out. They have a frenemy relationship. Undyne is trying to convince Mew to join the guard to at least offer her some protection but she's decided on raining hell in the Underground just to see the look on the guards face when they realize they messed with the wrong trans kitty.

River Person: Hope can be found in the strangest of places. River Person has gone quiet. Communicating through actions rather than words. Ferrying those who are worthy and drowning those who aren't. They drown very few people though. They try to see the good or rather potential for good in everyone. They believe there is hope for this world. That people can and will change. And that one day very soon peace will be returned. Until then they'll just hum their little tune in their riverboat and pray for a better tomorrow.

Annoying Dog: God has left this world

Asriel: Hopes and Dreams are a thing of the past. Asriel was born in a world with no Hopes, no Dreams, no Love. They befriended Chara but were distant from the rest of their family. They helped Chara move in their wheelchair and wanted to believe humanity was good....but one day disaster struck. Asriel and Chara were picking flowers. Chara knew very little about flowers and made a pie with them for Asriel's 12th birthday.....and poisoned him. The buttercups they picked poisoned the young monster and he passed away soon after.... As Flowey he blames Chara for everything. For the way the underground is. For the way he is. And for giving him hope that humanity was capable of anything but cruelty. He hates humans he hates monsters and wants them all to burn in hell alongside him. Even after regaining his true form he's covered in melting scars like a decaying corpse. Because some wounds never heal.

Chara: The first human who fell. They climbed Mount Ebott to bring joy to Monsterkind but ended up falling and breaking countless bones. They became wheelchair bound but Asriel and Toriel cared for them. They loved flowers and baking but weren't good at recognizing flowers. This lead to Asriel's death. Chara was stricken with grief and blamed them self which may be why they didn't fight back when Asgore killed them. It's said that when you enter the King's throne room you can still hear their laughter.

Gaster: His fall into the Core was no accident. He saw the decent of Monsterkind. And didn't want to around long enough to see it. So he fell into the Core. However even in death monsters are doomed to suffer. As he didn't die. He's stuck watching the world he tried to help spiral into hell unable to help. In intense pain his new goal is finding a way to put this world out of its misery.

[eksvee15]

EUREKA, UTDR THEORISTS.

I have been working on a theory regarding all of our repetitive smiles. All the weird smiles we don't know the meaning of in Undertale and Deltarune? That theory attempts to solve this mystery.

I call this theory, the Cheshire Smiles Theory, or the Consequences Theory. Bear with me on this one because it'll be a wild [Ride Around Town].

Disclaimer, this theory bases itself off the "Chara is the consequence, not the villain" theory, the "Kris hates us" theory, the overpopular "MysteryMan is Gaster's sprite" theory and the whole shtick of the secret bosses seeking out freedom. This theory also bases itself around the concept of Consequences a LOT. If you don't believe/like any of those theories, read at your own risks and don't get angry at me. I warned.

What is a cheshire cat's smile?

Smiling like a cheshire cat, as defined by google, goes as follows : "The Chesire Cat grin is an expression made by The Trickster who's up to something, and 'something' never bodes well for the person they are smiling at. Usually, it involves their total humiliation - occasionally it involves mortal danger."

Alternatively, a cheshire cat smile can be compared to the very literal meaning of it : The smile found on the enigmatic Cheshire Cat from Alice in Wonderland. The peculiar traits we'll focus on here will be the enigmatic smiles behind which he hides, as well as its ability to disappear and appear at any time.

In Undertale and Deltarune, however, smiles are relatively common. Happy smiles like Papyrus and Undyne's, embarassed smiles like Alphys', fake smiles like Rouxls Kaard's, hopeful smiles like Asgore's and Asriel's, evil smiles like KING's and somewhat Queen's? But most notably Flowey (the absolute king of evil and fake smiles here). This leaves a type of smile : The type of smile found on Chara, Spamton, Jevil, Sans to an extent, MysteryMan/Gaster, Spamton NEO, Kris in the Ch1 ending, and the TV's smile in the Ch2 ending. Those, are which I'll refer to as cheshire smiles, and I believe they come from a specific cause : Consequences. Those smiles that seem to appear and disappear when we least expect it? They're all thanks to the consequences of actions. Ours, theirs, actions overall. And I'm going to explain why.

Undertale's Cheshire smiles

The most obvious cheshire smile I think about here is Chara's. Chara, the demon that comes when you call its name. You only see their smile upon completing either a No Mercy run, or a Post NoMercy Pacifist run. Chara is the literal embodiment of the consequences of our actions, here to delete our world regardless of our choice after a No Mercy run, here to remind us of our actions if we try a Pacifist afterwards. Chara is there. Chara remembers. Chara reminds. Chara is the consequence we deserve. And their smile is engraved in our game, as a consequence of making the underground go empty. And it will be there every single time.

Chara here is the whole basis of why this theory exists. A smile that we don't expect, a smile that randomly appears, and a smile motivated by the consequences of our actions. The perfect place to start. Chara is going to be our standart for what a Cheshire smile means in Undertale and Deltarune alike.

Our next candidate in Undertale will be Sans. Although Sans doesn't constantly seem to fit the description of cheshire smile, he is actually one of those that fits the BEST, both based on Cheshire Cat standarts and Chara standarts. He appears and disappears at will, has an unforgettable smile, is a literal judge, is silly and lazy (like a cat) but also, the Sans fight is the most memorable consequence of doing the No Mercy run. Sans' true smile, different from his smile in the textbox, only appears in the ending of a run most of the time, be it in the True Pacifist ending, or the No Mercy ending, we will be faced with that smile, possibly for dozens of times over. I don't count Papyrus, because Papyrus' smile is always innocent, happy, cheerful, confident. Sans' smile never shows emotion, he's a pokerface. Yes, I know, he appears shocked when we hit him but come on. This doesn't disprove it. Sans is peculiar also in the sense that he is very much depressed. Be it through the HP is Hope theory, or just by Undertale lore standarts, it's obvious Sans is depressed and his smile isn't there for himself. Which WOULD qualify him as a fake smiler if the whole rest of the explanation didn't matter, and if the Sans lore wasn't as complicated as it is. It's obvious something happened to make Sans stay like this, he's not just keeping it up for the image. We've yet to discover why, though.

The last member of this list will be MysteryMan/Gaster. I know he's relevant in both games, but his first real appearance is in Undertale plus his lore is in Undertale, so I'll put him there. Gaster is similar to Sans in his cheshire traits, in the sense that he is incredibly mysterious, basically can disappear at will, and his smile seems frozen on his face. A trait also similar to Cheshire Cat is that he doesn't seem real despite being in front of us. However, Gaster has no relevant appearance in the game for us, why would his smile be cheshire if there's none of our consequences? Well that's it, the consequences aren't OURS. They're HIS. His smile is frozen like this, frozen through time and space, because his ambition caused him to fall into his own creation. He was his own downfall, and as a consequence, he is stuck like this. Once again, a smile caused in consequences.

Notes

One could argue OMEGA Flowey's smile is a cheshire one, given the entire embodiment of consequence that he is. However, that's the only trait he has, a consequence that's not even caused. It's a decision he takes, the only consequence is that he looks like that after taking the souls, nothing more. OMEGA Flowey, much like Flowey, has a smile stuck in the Evil Smiles cathegory.

Mad Dummy and Mad MewMew don't count here, as their smiles are either malicious or, in No Mercy, genuine happiness. While the latter comes from a consequence, it isn't nearly relevant enough to be cheshire, and has no implication aside from "I finally became myself".

Deltarune's Cheshire smiles

With the Undertale part out of the way, time for the big bit of this theory : Deltarune. And oh boy do I have a lot to talk to. Bear in mind, Chara's smile is the standart Cheshire smile portrayed by Toby Fox.

Our first contestant here will be Kris. Kris? But they never smile!. . . They do, once to our knowledge. In the Chapter 1 ending, Kris flashes a menacing, yet.. Familiar smile to us. I believe this smile is the consequence of us, the soul, possessing them and making them do all of this, and their smile here as well as their actions is their way to fight back. It's to send a message to us, that consequences are coming. This smile is VERY reminiscent of Chara's own smile, which shows up at the end of the run and reminds us that our actions WILL have consequences. This is exactly Kris' message here, I believe. Small note here, this will be the one smile that barely doesn't fall out of cheshire. It's WAY on the fronteer, but given how relevant Kris' smile is in this scene, it barely makes it in.

Next up is Jevil, our good ole' jester of the deck himself. Jevil is probably the character that smiles the most in Deltarune, as he never gives it up. Even the Devilsknife is smiling, to quote him, and he IS the Devilsknife. Jevil has the silliness, and the ability to disappear to reappear, while also having the dangerousness and most of all - being optional. The consequences here, again and much like with Gaster, don't come from us. Seam (a smiling cat..how peculiar and conveinient.), Jevil's friend, gives us insight and story on Jevil. Evidently, Jevil found himself behind bars due to his false belief of being free to do anything, and going rogue because of it. Jevil broke, and his insanity lead him to where he is today as a consequence. Jevil is stuck smiling in his little freedom in the end.

We've been to one end of the freedom scale, let's go to the other end : Spamton G. Spamton. This guy has probably the biggest amount of consequence events in the entire Deltarune yet. He was a salesman, got a phonecall and as consequence his smile was everywhere, the phonecalls left so he fell to the dumpster and now he's just a smiler puppet craving ..something. The biggest reason I bring him to the table is because HE IS LITERALLY A COPY PASTE OF CHARA IN THE SNOWGRAVE RUN. He gives us the weapon of the kill, tells us how many left, and he is the overpowering force you meet at the very end of Chapter 2's dark world if you do Snowgrave. In parallel he calls out every single action you've taken. He literally does Chara's job in Deltarune Chapter 2's weird route, in which he becomes the embodiment of the consequences of our actions. In the normal route, as himself, he's a broken man trying to escape the situation his own consequences put him in. Spamton NEO is his own worst invention, an award losing smile to lose it all. Another thing that shows the cheshire in Spamton would be the way he seems to be everywhere. Check any dumpster, it'll have a pillow inside. Spamton lives everywhere. Even the LoadedDisk item smiles in your hand, like Devilsknife with Jevil.

Finally, the TV at the end of Chapter 2. I think it's going to be a prelude to a cheshire smile, it has the design for it already and with all the smiles we've encountered so far, this feels very much like Kris' smile. A prelude to danger, a message. We know one thing for sure : it's here because of a bad consequence. Kris opened a dark fountain, despite Ralsei's warnings. As a result, this smile comes into play to tell us things are about to go south. I think this preludes a Cheshire smile for the character this is supposed to foreshadow, especially considering their entire smile will be a reminder of Kris' actions in opening that fountain to begin with. If it's Mike's smile? We'll probably see it everywhere.

Notes

One thing I didn't mention is something I said at the very beggining. The cheshire cat's smile is prelude to danger and a bad message, which Jevil, Spamton NEO and the TV's smile all represent.

Similar to previous examples, Ralsei, Susie and Lancer are no cheshire. They're not a consequence, and Ralsei's smiles are of utter kindness, Susie's are usually positively mischievous or just genuine, and Lancer. . .is Lancer.

Important to note here that Mike essentially humiliated Spamton, which feeds even more in my theory of Mike's smile being cheshire-esque.

There you have it. My entire theory on the hidden types of smile through both games. I believe this will probably amount to something in the end of Deltarune if my theory prooves true, and if it does, then the ending of Deltarune might really change as a consequence of finding all of those secret bosses. But that's a theory for later.

Thanks for reading, I'd love your input in this and PLEASE take care of yourself, 'cause someone really cares about you :)

[thethingaboutdeath]

Ummm uhhh lemme ramble about my dead children and teenagers thank you very much

For starters they all come from the same village with a heavy anti-monster sentiment. It's not EVERY village who has this sentiment, just that particular village. Also it has some cult mentality in there

Under cut lol

Carmine Schmidt/Chara Dreemurr

Hope

Born Oct 31

9 at fall, 12 at death

AMAB NB | They/Them

Was considered 'cursed' therefore outcasted and picked on a lot

Liliana would constantly talk with (TO) them, talking about the Bible and try and 'cure' Chara of their curse

It only pissed them off and made them hate religion

Sometimes hung out with Liliana, Brooklyn, Jacklyn, Shannon, and Damien (they hated that.)

Went to the mountain to disappear and fell

We all know what happens next

Good intentions, horrible execution of plan

Trust them buttercup poisoning is an awful way to go

'Humans are dangerous and awful and shouldn't be trusted.'

Liliana Hernandez Garcia

Perseverance

Born Dec 24

11-13 at death

Cis girl | She/They

Raised in Catholic household

Friends with Brooklyn, Jacklyn, Shannon (Lyric's mother) and Damien (Lyric's father). They also considered Chara a friend (it was not reciprocated)

Stood up for Shannon when she was being bullied

Saw Asriel carry Chara's body and went to Mount Ebott for answers like three days later girlie are you stupid

Did a Very Rude Pacifist (wanted answers, not get all buddy-buddy with 'demons')

Brutally killed by a Royal Guard in Waterfall

Their death is what prompted Tori to leave

'Monsters are Ontologically Evil™ beasts' (doesn't actually know what ontologically evil means'

Brooklyn Jackson

Kindness

Born May 2

11-13 at death

AMAB NB | They/Them

Parents weren't all that great but their aunt and uncle were amazing

Pretty damn vegan

Was out of town the week Asriel came and Liliana went to Ebott so they were shocked to hear what happened

Went to Mount Ebott to collect herbs and try take their mind off of Liliana and Chara's disappearances

Did a Neutral (somebody (I mean somebodies) had to die)

Got heat stroke trying to outrun the Guard and died

Secretly agrees with Liliana's radical anti-monster sentiment (would never say it out loud)

'Monsters... Are something (Fucking beasts).'

Jacklyn McBean

Bravery

Born Aug 18

12-14 at death

Gender means nothing to this bitch but They/She

Just appeared one day and never left

Orphan up until age 10 they were adapted by this widowed man

Behavioral problems that were temporarily dealt with

Joined Da Squad somewhere around 4-5???

Okay okay either they were sent up to Ebott by the leader to 'put the demons in their place' or just randomly went up there

Either way she was incredibly reckless and hostile

28 killed, 14 injured

Either a Merciless Neutral or Aborted Genocide

Either way they got humbled halfway through Waterfall and decided to lay low

Got to Hotland and fought the gaurds with little to no healing items

Dumbass

'Monsters suck n all but I ain't better dan dem.'

Amari Chandler

Patience

Born Jan 28

10-12 at death

Cis guy | He/They

MAMA'S BOYYYYYYYYYYY

Friends with Lyric and Clover (besties)

Wanted to be a swordfighta

Found Chara's locket and dagger in the Ruins (the annoying dog happened) and replaced the ribbon and toy knife with those

Didn't really trust Toriel but stuck around the Ruins for almost a week before homesickness came in

Tried to betrayal kill Toriel, obviously failed because she's still alive

Bit of prick energy

Can cry on demand

Any monster who approached got the betrayal kill treatment

Just pretend to be this weak lil kid that wants to be left alone, and strike when their guard is down

6+ betrayal kills

Anyone else who just wants to chat was spared

Got to Asgore

Asked to leave

Nope.jpg

'They're demons. That's all they gonna be to me.' (Doesn't actually believe this, does he?)

Michelle 'Lyric' Chapman-Roffe

Integrity

Born April 18

12-15 at death

AFAB Librafeminine | They/He/She

For some reason, people really hate their entire family

Inherited Ma's birthmark, which people considered a Devil's Mark

Her older brother have unspecified developmental disorders

~~lyric autistic???~~~

Anyways people really hated the family

Well, save for a select few

Amari and Clover were, and still are, his besties

Daddy's Kid

Was pretty distraught at Amari being declared missing and later declared dead

Met this old widow who happened to be a former ballet instructor that's still in touch with plenty of her students

Free/reduced cost private ballet lessons

Shit went downhill tho

Old widow dies, ballet instructor forced to move away, Amari going missing, people hating the fam more

Despite his family and Clover's best efforts, their mental well-being continued to deteriorate

Until it became too much.

He went to Ebott and saw the hole and purposely fell in

They just randomly blurted out their name was Lyric when they met Goat Ma and she stuck with it

Toriel was friendly, too friendly in Lyric's eyes. Probably planning on eating them.

Explored the Ruins, trying to learn more about the place, fell into a bunch of dirt and ashes that refused to come off.

Anyways they managed to find an exit and entered Snowdin

Uh oh.png

Some monsters managed to recognize Lyric as human and saw the ashes + dirt that looked too similar to monster dust and assumed he killed someone because the results and pain of Jacklyn and Amari's actions were still fresh

Lyric tried to explain but it fell on deaf ears

Eventually one of them blurts out the whole 'Get seven human souls to shatter the barrier and destroy humanity' thing

That sets them off.

If treating these demons the way she wants to be treated isn't working, then he'll have to treat them as they treat her.

As enemies.

6 of them were killed, seven injured, the other three retreated.

The ruckus brought in a couple witnesses tho

All they saw was a human attacking a bunch of 'innocent' monsters and sounded the alarm

Couple minutes and tons of walking later Lyric eventually breaks down into tears, homesick, stressed, injured, mourning the loss of one of their dearest friends, the sort.

Dalv heard the crying and... Due to the fuckin snowstorm (and that he's bit of a dummy dum dum (affectionate)) couldn't make her out to be human

So he slowly approaches, using his magic to try and console them

It only triggers their fight or flight response and they chose fight

Kicks him in the vampballs

Goes on a tearful rant on how all monsters are the same

Dalv realizes that this is a stressed out child and not some mindless killing machine and tries to talk them down

Lyric isn't fucking having it and prepares to attack again (most likely because he's assuming Dalv is just trying to trick them)

Kanako jumps in, tries to deescalate the situation

Lyric realizes that they attacked an innocent person, in front of a child no less.

Gives the two some cinnamon bunnies, apologizes, heads out

We all know what happens next

haha they didn't die instantly to axis

Took a bit

Dalv had the misfortune of witnessing it

Yada yada yada chujin was a fuckin idiot bla bla bla Ceroba fucks up, ye ye ye soul released

'I'm not a big fan of monsters. At all.'

Alexander 'Clover' Armstrong

Justice

Born Feb 25

9-11 at death

AMAB Demigender | They/She/He

Has elements from UTY but with some deviations

First of all her parents weren't comically abusive but were horrible for each other and thus were horrible for them

Also lived in a worn down home on the outskirts

Had an older half sister Alexandra, or Ivy (Totally not from Undertale Ivy's Justice no) that went missing one day (not on Mount Ebott mind you)

Ma n pa stopped talking about her like she never existed

Anyway both parents were trying to turn Clover against each other

And they almost grew up too fast

Met Lyric and Amari and instantly got attached

The Chandlers and the Chapman-Roffes were more like family to him

Cowboy obsession

Fake southern accent

Amari went missing, they cried. Lyric went missing, they cried.

Where were they?

Are they ever gonna come back?

Where did they go?

To Mount Ebott.

So did several others.

Clover got tired of waiting and set off

First deviation is that they're more dead set on their mission and don't stay with Tori... That often.

Sometimes they found the Echo Flower containing Lyric's last words

Sometimes it's bits of their body rotting somewhere (don't ask)

Waterfall was the farthest they got before The Fuckin Flower intervened.

Classic UTY shit

Then the Petalled Bastard told Clover that Asgore has dat soul collection goin

They're pissed off because that must include the souls of their BEST FRIENDS!!!

You'd think that she'd go full Vengeance at that point but...

He surprisingly doesn't.

Most of the UTY shit happens but when she spared Ceroba, she said she's going to the damn castle anyway.

The gang try to talk him outta it but Gunhat serious as all hell

Ain't no way Asgore finna get away with killing (or ordering the killing of) their besties

Over their dead body.

Oh yeah clover fuckin dies to the GOAT

Martlet asks Asgore for Clover's gun n hat and Asgore obliges

The funeral happens

'Well Ah'll say, them monsters are a colorful bunch. Still really hate Asgore though.'

Freya 'Frisk' Sanders

Willpower, Determination, whatever

Born Nov 7

7-9 throughout the whole thing

AFAB Neutrois | Doesn't care about pronouns they mean nothing to Frisk

Actually scared of everything that's going on

That bored expression is just a front they're scared and wanna go home

Sans talking about how great of a job he did protecting them... most likely sarcasm, right?

Then he basically threatened them... And brushed it off as a joke.

What the fu-

Anyways they did an Extermination Route next reset because they're mad... Up until Papyrus which they spared. Still killed Undyne tho

Snas judgement, Asgore fight, Flowey absorbs the souls, reset.

Frisk figured that mass homicide wasn't a good idea and does True Pacifist

I got places to go -> I want absolutely nothing to do with... A lot of you. Some of you are fine.

Remember kids mass homicide doesn't solve shit

[lastoneout]

Hey there! Sorry it's kind of late, but I just remembered I said I'd send you a follow up ask about your dislike for the monster mom from Undertale when you had more time. But if you still don't have the time or just aren't feeling up to it, absolutely no worries! Hope you have a nice Friday!

I FORGOT ABOUT THIS

But yeah I really don't like her at all and it's maybe bcs I'm projecting some baggage onto her or smthn, but basically I went into Undertale completely blind bcs my friend told me I should experience it as fresh as possible, the only hint I got was "try not to kill anyone", so from my perspective here's what the beginning of the game was like(also forgive me if anything is out of order plot wise, I've only played the game once and it was seven years ago):

- Okay, the main character I'm playing as has clearly fallen into some sort of fantasy world, alright, games probably gonna be about us finding our way home then, cool!

- Oh, there's a goat lady?? Who's....acting like she's my mom??? Weird, I don't know her at all, and I super don't trust her bcs in fantasy stories like this you gotta watch out for characters who seem super nice but secretly want to keep you trapped "for your own good". It's a classic trope, so I'm :/ about her.

- Oh god she's being so overbearing and way too nice ugh I already don't like pushy tutorial npcs and she's def giving me bad vibes now, she's probably going to try to trap me here. All of this nice stuff feels culty and dangerous and weird, and there's this creeping dread, eugh...

- I hate butterscotch. I told her I preferred cinnamon bcs I don't like butterscotch, but now I have to eat it anyway, so she's not listening to me. So she's acting like my mom while creating an environment where my desires and preferences are not prioritized. This sucks.

- There were other kids down here maybe? What happened to them? Hmmm I think I'm in Danger.

- Eh, her house is nice but it's so empty...I don't like it here. She's refusing to talk to me about where I am or tell me how to leave, and she's kinda like demanding I just give up and live here with her and absolutely acting like she's my mom now, so yeah def trying to trap me here, I guess I'm a kidnapping victim. We gotta figure out a way to get the fuck out of here this place is culty and weird and too happy and I hate it.

- And she's trying to stop us! I knew it.

- And now she's kinda guilt tripping me! Wow yeah we REALLY need to leave.

- Fight time, but I'm not supposed to kill so I guess we just push forward? Eugh she's trying to make me feel bad for her but I don't. I just want to leave!

- Oh okay the fight is over? And she's telling me...that I can never come back?? This lady full on kidnapped me and started acting like my mom and now she's ditching me?? Bcs SHE'S too sad?? Oh my god, that's so fucking mean! I'm not even allowed to call her? Not that I wanted to, but she's just full on cutting me off?? Listen you either want to be my mom or you don't, if you're gonna commit, then fucking commit! You don't get to just act like you love me and then rip it all away! Jesus, this sucks. Okay, well fuck you too lady, I'm leaving, see ya never I hope!

And then I got really emotionally invested in everyone else and especially Asgore bcs I love a tragic king who is trying to do what's right even if it involves horrible things and losing every thing and everyone he loves, but hey at least he's being up front about it! And not lying to me or anything! I appreciate the honesty.

But then she showed up at the end of the game and I was just like oh god she's back fucking yikes. And she's acting like she's better than Asgore?? And he's listening?? Damn also she's totally okay with murder since she just told him he could have taken one human soul and crossed the barrier, so she doesn't even have the moral high ground on that, so she's a coward and so fake wtf, oh god now she's acting like my mom again, fucking great. I'm running as soon as the credits roll.

So yeah....I was VERY surprised when I went online and saw how everyone loved her so much, cuz to me she's just a rude weird control freak lady who tried to trap me in purgatory alone with her forever and then acted like I was the bad guy for asking to leave before Completely Abandoning me. And maybe it's due to some trauma I've been through or smthn, I think it probably is tbh, but I just cannot bring myself to see her as anything but a weirdo who pretended to love me and then abandoned me the second I asserted a single boundary.

And that's why I don't like Toriel.

[funnycreatortimetravel]

To be FAIR. And I don't mean to excuse this or any other issue that Undyne has as a racist or justifying actual actions just because a war happened, but in a way, Frisk has little to no right being the Underground in the first place.

The monsters are locked up, the humans already won, they're trapped for eternity pretty much and every generation, regardless if they remember the events of the war, is forced to deal with the consequences of the actions of their ancestors, even if they don't hate/don't care about humans. I'm sure Frisk, as did Chara, knew about how Mt. Ebott was forbidden, yet they went anyway.

The monsters are stuck with no way out, and their only hope is foolish human children who fall there. They have NOTHING else keeping them going. The underground is getting crowded, most people are either depressed or trying not to give up hope, and most of all, they're all stuck. No matter where you go, you're instantly reminded of how small the Underground is, yet all of these people have no choice but to suffer from the actions of humans.

Yes, Frisk is a child, and yes, Undyne is an adult fishwoman thing, but humans, but default, are stronger than monsters and that's not even a question. Frisk has the upper hand at almost all times in terms of strength, and even if they do die, they can linger after death.

"What does this have to do with Undyne? She doesn't know Frisk can reset/come back to life!" Yes, but she knows, even if she's compensating for that, that humans are much stronger and will likely kill Asgore. All of the human children who died from Asgore didn't have enough determination to succeed in killing/either that, they didn't want to. Frisk is different. They could literally ruin everything the monsters have worked for over the past how many years they've been trapped.

So yes, I can see why Undyne thinks Frisk is better off dead when the option is either that or Asgore dies and takes all of the souls, and monsters will remain trapped. Child or not, Frisk is clearly not there for shits and giggles, regardless of what route they're on.

In terms of bullying, I see it as a way for Undyne to dehumanize Frisk before they kill them. She's a warrior, and I imagine that even she has conflicting emotions about killing children. We can see this facade drop after she befriends Frisk. Two wrongs don't make a right, however, and Undyne still did a lot wrong, no matter the context.

But Undyne unlearned her prejudices about humans that have likely been ingrained into her since she was young. It's not like there was just a war and the humans won and the monsters lost, no, they were all actively punished for their actions and so were their children and their children. Then the humans left them all to rot in the mountains essentially with no consideration that there's an entire group of innocent creatures suffering punishment for crimes NEITHER side is old enough to be responsible for, say for Asgore and Toriel. So while yes, racism is never justified at all, there's a difference between being in public and being racist and then having a child of a race of people invade your prison, possibly have the threat of killing your only hope, all while knowing that they have the strength to kill both you and everyone you love.

Frisk is a child, sure, but they're by no means helpless or weak. They came into the Underground likely knowing that monsters existed, either that or they were going up there for an "unhappy reason," but seeing as how they didn't just stay with Toriel, it's clear that they had the intentions of progressing regardless. Toriel gave them the option to stay there and be safe, but Frisk wanted to go home even after they came to the mountain for whatever reason.

How is Undyne a bully to Frisk?

Well... where do I begin?

Keep in mind, this is an adult saying these things to a child.

Also, I don't hate Undyne... In fact, I prefer her over Sans... I get that she was doing her job... I get that she was only following Asgore's orders... But she still has her 'yikes' moments that I can't ignore...

Like how she insults Frisk, even when Frisk saved the armless lizard kid's life and later her own life... or how she actually enjoys attacking Frisk (as do most of the other monsters).

It's one thing to kill someone an innocent child, because your King has ordered you to, but it's another thing entirely when you do it while smiling. (I know Frisk has the option to kill, but I'm talking about the Pacifist Route... the other routes are for another day.)

Even after you befriend her, she's still willing to take another human's soul if they're not a perfect pacifist like Frisk and she still threatens to beat Frisk up if the child hurts Asgore (even though Frisk is a child and has constantly proven they aren't dangerous).

She doesn't even apologize for attacking Frisk the child.

She also later tells Asgore that he doesn't need to apologize to Frisk.

It's messed up that forgiving Asriel/Flowey is optional, but forgiving Undyne is mandatory if you want the True Pacifist Ending.

My point is that the fish woman needs to go through a bit more character development in my opinion, because nobody likes a racist or someone who can't control her temper.

Sans and Mettaton also have their issues as well but befriending them isn't mandatory to get the true pacifist ending, like befriending the violent royal captain is.

[invertedfate]

Considering how there used to be so many stories about Frisk going to ridiculous lengths to 'save' or 'revive' Asriel, I'm amused by IF!Frisk going 'why???' about making him their sibling/best friend in other worlds. I continue to remain delighted and refreshed by IF!Frisk's personality.

Aw, thanks! Like, I hope people don't think I have a personal vendetta against Asriel for approaching it this way, but I just don't think IF Frisk is obligated to be friends with someone who built them up only to backstab them and then tear them down both physically and verbally, right down to preying on their guilt and trauma with Lilac. Even if Frisk does end up understanding Asriel's story later, understanding motive and how someone has hurt is definitely not the same as being okay with them in the present. IF Frisk definitely isn't the kinda Frisk who'd jump through hoops to save Asriel in the traditional fanwork sense of "gotta make him stay a monster." But I also just sorta feel like... his problems are not in the body, anyway. Asriel/Flowey's issues are on an emotional and psychological level, and a part of me thinks that a reason he struggled so much is that the Dreemurr parents are not good at handling neurodivergent or traumatized children.

Toriel and Asgore love their kids in both UT and DR, and yet Deltarune shows that Toriel... doesn't do anything to confront Kris' problems. Their weird habits in the bathroom just "happen sometimes." Asgore can't even recall whether or not Kris likes big hugs, and neither of them caught onto Chara's hate for humanity and considered that they might do something as huge as the buttercup plan.

And I don't think this makes them bad parents so much as... they're too used to the idea that love is enough to make a child happy. That if they are loving and provide for children, then that is enough. So for Asriel to come back as a flower, they probably thought they could make him feel better with lots and lots of love and attention, when the problems were much deeper than that.

I think it also shows with how Toriel treated Frisk in UT- being so coddling, hiding the truth from them, trying to keep them happy by giving them a room and pies and promising to nurture them and putting her ideas of what would make a child before their actual wants and needs (which is a big part of why Frisk didn't like her in the old timeline).

I do wanna reiterate that I'm not trying to punch down on fanworks that do go for more idealized friendships between Frisk and Asriel, have them as siblings, or go for the happiest "save goatbro" approach, even if that's really not my cup of tea. I do get it. It's a lot of comfort and wish fulfillment- wanting this character who suffered so much to live a happy, normal life and being so touched by his fight and his character and little things like the hug and how he describes Frisk as the kinda friend he wished he had.

And I get that, but I also feel like it's important to look at the circumstances within a given fanwork. And in IF, the damage Flowey has done in just Part 61 hit Frisk so, SO hard. It's not something they'll be able to shake off that easily, and we still have a whole final arc to go through. It's a whole different beast than a relatively short final battle.

[haveyouseenthisskeleton]

Hi, if it's alright I'd love a match-up! Any character is fine but I'd prefer one of the skeletons. Mostly outta curiosity. Okay so I'm a 5'6" (really 5'5" but i lie) person (she/they). I have some tattoos and hoping to get a couple more along with a few piercings.

I like drawing and writing characters for my stories. I'd love to get my stories out there somehow, just don't know which medium yet (general 10 year goal). I love watching and reading anything. But nothing is spared from close analysis and predictions of what happens next. I also love cats!, cold weather, sweets, and iced coffee (that's basically just sugar and chocolate in a cup).

I don't like really rude people. It's okay if it's a couple jokes once in a while but super often or just straight up jerk behavior is off my list. Also loud open mouth chewing (HUGE pet peeve). People who also just don't care about others or don't try and fix their mistakes really irritate me (Massive deal-breaker!). I hate pickles and wearing socks to bed. Or waking up suddenly because of people.

Okay qualities and flaws!: I'm creative, doodle everywhere. I'm smart, love learning about anything. Math and puzzles come easily to me. My humor knows no bounds. Puns? Dark Humor? Shitposts? Someone's tone of voice? Anything works. I'm very empathetic, can immediately tell when someone's upset (I text them or ask them privately about it). Also a night owl through and through.

As for flaws, my energy is kind of everywhere enough that people can find it annoying. I can act awkward around new people and overthink everything (introvert/anxious). A little too stubborn at times but more often than not it's when I know for a fact I'm right. There's times where I just can't get out of bed. I procrastinate as well but it's because that's how I work best (bad habit but it works so well).

Hope this wasn't too much!! Thank you!!

Hello, hello !

You got some very close ones : UT Asgore, OT Sans, Dancetale Sans, MT Sans...

You got a tie between UT Alphys, UF Alphys and DF Sans, but since you wanted a skeleton, you got...

DANCEFELL SANS (RUMBA) !

For obvious reasons, Rumba is very creative. He loves dance, of course, but also singing and writing poems. Prepare yourself for some awkward moments where he declames poems to you because the guy has no idea how to express his feelings otherwise.

He has a good sense of humor, but fortunately less gory and sexual than the actual Fell version. Despite playing the tough guy, Rumba is a very sensitive and empathic skeleton. He's a crybaby when he's watching Disney's movies or very cute puppies. He's a bit more energetic than the true Fell version, but he's still a Sans so energy is limited you know. He loves to procrastinate and sleep. He's drooling in his sleep too, so have fun with that. He's fine with you being stubborn, it's a bit challenging... But he can be pretty stubborn too. However, just threat to tell his bro and it's over, you win. He likes that you are smarter than him, since he's not very good using his one braincell sometimes, like with cooking. You're gonna loose several microwaves because he forgets you don't put aluminium in here.

He's very good at maths too and he is happy he can share his knowledge on this. He likes cold weather, too much even, and it's a 50/50 he becomes ill when there is snow outside. He loves snow. He's not a big fan of sugar food, he prefers mustard. However, iced coffee is more than fine ! Cats don't like him on the other hand. He's not against having one, but he won't interract much with it by fear of getting his hands destroy like with his brother's tyrannic cats.

Contrary to the Fell version, he is very respectful and doesn't swear that much. Honor is something important for him, so he wants people to fix their mistakes too, and it includes his mistakes. He hates people that chew loud, mostly because Tango would scream everytime he was doing that as a kid and now he is traumatised. He is also a night owl, but he needs to sleep more during the day. He's adapting his S/O routine.

For all these reasons, I think he's the best candidate for you. Though, if you didn't wanted a skeleton, UF Alphys was sticking even better :D