#not going to tag this for fandom to avoid inflaming the situation further

[broken-minded-love]

@sad-sweet-cowboah Hope you don’t mind if I start a new post here, I don’t want to prolong the debate by doing this, but I still have some things to say and the other post is getting kind of ridiculous and is hard to reply to due to it’s length.  I’ll quote a few things from the original thread to keep it linked in reply and physically here for posterity.  [...I know it makes me seem suspicious but I have a habit of reading things without saving them, etc...] I appreciate that you wouldn’t keep track like that, who does? However, I can’t see any credit given to HOGO or her work on your blog/story before the original call out drama in 2019? Obviously you may have done that privately, but I know how fandoms work and there’s a lot of mutual backscratching in drama’s like this so it seems impossible to truly validate any of this independently, which is a shame. Perhaps it was my mistake, but when you said you’d been inspired by HOGO’s fics I assumed she’d written a full fic. I can’t find an actual chaptered fan fic following videogame Arthur in modern times from HOGO, and nothing of him in that setting by himself. It all seems to be involving the gang too, which is quite a different dynamic to what occurs in your series and Wish Upon. I can see how it would be difficult to keep track of HOGO’s posts, even if you were trying too, because I can see dozens of drabbles, but nothing as a titled fic you could keep track of.  I can also see why those little scenes and dialogs may have inspired you, but as I said I can’t see any credit for the inspiration as you claimed? Besides which, it’s all kind of a moot point, because I think the bigger issue seems to be less about the initial inspiration and more about the timing and direct comparisons that can be drawn between your series and Wish Upon.  [...I also included the-awkward-outlaw’s series as an example since you mentioned previously that it’s a “very niche” topic when it’s more popular than one would think. ...] Well, yes, it is now, but it wasn’t to begin with. Ever since the onset of this drama, I’ve only seen a tiny handful of attempts at covering Arthur in the modern world in a fic, which still makes it niche when you compare to the volume of repeated themes in Red Dead fics over all.  It was a completely non existent plotline (at least on AO3/FFNET) in October ‘18 through Jan ‘19, and the game had been out for three months already when @miss-oscurita published Wish Upon. Yet no one had stepped up to bring us a story covering the concept of video game Arthur alive in 2018/9.  The reason Wish Upon hooked me personally, was because it was completely different to the numerous “damsel in distress”, “highborn babe”, “tough outlaw chick” that were a dime a dozen. There was also several “modern reader goes back in time” stories too, but Wish Upon was the first incarnation of Arthur coming out of the game into the modern world, in an actual fic at least. No doubt the idea could have been circulating, but no one had actually taken the time to put it into an actual story to my knowledge.   Does that mean Oscurita should hold a monopoly on the idea? Of course not, but it does explain why anything that followed Wish Upon’s publication, including TOA’s recent works, will be bound to draw comparisons simply because Wish Upon was first on the scene to cover the topic, and as a result is likely the most well known version of it.  I think the real issue here isn’t who all’s covered Arthur living in modern times, it’s more the issue over the dynamic where the protag is familiar with him as a character, because the dynamic of the pairing and the story itself changes so much when it’s explored from that angle. The dynamic is also affected when the fic focuses only on the two main characters (as with the gang being in the modern world in HOGO’s concepts) especially when they are both aware he’s fictional that it’s really something that can only be done once, maybe twice at a push. And yes you’d have to be certifiable to believe ideas won’t overlap, I mean it’s going to be a really hollow story if you don’t cover things like Arthur using a microwave, or using a toothbrush and showering for the first time, or learning to drive, discovering movies and what not. However, from what I seen over the course of this matter, it seems the issue with it all lies in how and when these elements are explored in the story. I may be wrong, but I don’t think there’s ever been an issue raised with any other parts of your series beyond that of As We Meet, has there?  And the issues raised over the original instalment and the rewritten piece seemed to be because it essentially follows the exact pattern of Wish Upon’s first few chapters, as we’ve already discussed.

[... I’m 99% positive the catalyst was a h-o-g-o oneshot of Arthur discovering lingerie...]

Funny that you should mention discovering lingerie when @miss-oscurita’s most recent update included Arthur discovering modern underwear for the first time. I don’t recall in which of your stories he did that?

Just in the interest of being informed, I searched HOGO’s blog and found a chapter mentioning lingerie (which I assume is the one that inspired you?) but that in itself is a classic example of how the same idea can be done by two different people and still be complete different.

Which I’m sorry to say really only further highlights why the similarities in your opening chapters are such a cause for concern.

Regardless of the inspiration, if we list the similarities we have from the original piece, and the rewrite the issues are pretty clear. 

1) Young female gamer protag.

2) Modern day setting.

3) Both have adopted silver tabby cats.

4) Both have the backdrop of being alone on a stormy night.

5) Both involved with an event that brings Arthur out of the game.

6) Both aware of him as a fictional character before being a flesh and blood man.

4) Both immediately assume him to be an intruder.

5) Both think they are dreaming and pinch themselves.

6) Both use touch as a way to confirm he’s there in the flesh.

7) Both fics use the same name for animals.

8) Both fics almost immediately go on to explore Arthur showering, discovering cellphones, watching TV/movies, using a microwave, in almost the exact same order. 9) Both use some variation of the “my Arthur” device. 

Then in the rewrite you make changes to also include:

10) Both use his horse to confirm he’s ripped straight from the game.

11) Both use extremely similar types of names for the horses. 

12) Both work from home, for one reason or another.   Seeing it written out like that I can more understand why people have red flagged it, as it goes a bit beyond simply exploring the same concept as the likes of HOGO/TAO may be doing.  I mean it was bound to flare things up to include additional similar elements. What I don’t get is, knowing how toxic the fandom is, and that you’re under the microscope over this, why you didn’t take the rewrite as an opportunity to distance yourself from those similarities?  And if I’m brutally frank with you here, it does come across as a bit of “drama farming” when you know the consequences of similarities all too well. And what I still don’t get is how you’ve not managed to move away from these controversies?  I’m a lot of a loser, and have kept an eye on this drama since it began and I have to say when you interjected with the other drama around Wish Upon late last year, that came across to me as looking for drama, or at least being lead to it by someone else somewhere. I don’t know where you got the tip off for that, because the post wasn’t tagged and I only saw it due to following @miss-oscurita/you on my fandom account and the other writer in question was very new to the RDR fandom and likely didn’t have much of a following.  Add that to the poor wording on the announcements of your rewrites and you know, I’m sure it’s innocent on your part, but I can see why it doesn’t look good to others.  I mean I could easily believe you were trying to avoid making the stories similar and accidentally included the horse thing simply because your ideas and the ideas from Wish Upon merged, because unless you’re able to keep them firmly separate in your head it’s going to happen now you know of Wish Upon. If it was me, I’d be doing my best to not give anyone any more reason to throw shit at my house. Instead you’ve somehow managed to do the opposite. The rewrite was a missed opportunity to draw a line under all the past drama, and that’s disappointing to see as a reader and a writer too.  I do hope you manage to sort this all out, and that there’s no further public bashing over it all but now the seal is broken on it all it’ll be very hard to prevent the sharks smelling the tiniest drop of blood in the water.