#not about your ask- *I* just sorta went on an unqualified tangent abt it

[seaweedstarshine]

I just finished reading your meta on the NineRiver audios and honestly at first I was feeling a bit hesitant because of how I got exposed to the naysayers' takes first. But glad I finally felt brave enough to peek under the cut.

I love how you point out that the Doctor is always unsettled with the concept of having a wife in any regeneration because it's not that they hate River (which I've seen was the conclusion of some after listening to the audios 🫥), it's that they didn't think they'd ever be in a relationship, much more married of all things.

Also wanna ask if it's possible to have a clarification on the statement "River does not hide her infatuation". Unless it was used with a different meaning to what it usually has. Because by this point, she's past that infatuation stage? (Do we count Mels as the infatuation stage? I think early baby River could maybe count as infatuation stage too?)

Okay and the part where you point out that River barely notices the Doctor's new bodies is such a cool one because I JUST REALIZED IT. You know that thing where you ingest something but it takes you some time before said thing gets processed (usually by someone else pointing it out)? Yes, that's me.

Totally still laughing over Nine being "totally doing that kind of stuff with you, River, sans the guns" and around two regenerations later, he's totally doing that kind of stuff with River with the guns. He learned rather quickly that he has the tendency to give River what she wants lol (also headcanoning that Eleven had fashioned a hidden gun panel in the TARDIS console "just in case you need it River" but of course since we love angst he never was able to show it to her because she'd swanned off to the Library and he kept seeing her data ghost in the corner of his eye) (also could it be that the reason why Eleven is more "okay" sort of with her and her guns is because he understands her trauma and how having her gun around is sort of like her security blanket?)

Oh and Archipelago, my beloved. My heart hurt with Swipe Right, laughed a bit with Face of the Apocalypse, but damn, Archipelago. Damn. It made me bawl for a bit longer afterwards. I just love when Big Finish writers get DoctorRiver.

I'm gonna be dragging my heels a bit here though because although I originally went along with the QPR feels after my first listen (yes I listened to it again *⁠\⁠0⁠/⁠*), then a moot on Twitter pointed out that Nine and River had definitely fucked in the middle of the time storm. And I was like "WAIT WHAT WHEN WHERE" because how? I mean they were covered in corals by that time yeah? And moot said it happened near the end when they were acting "like a couple again" (must be after Nine read River's diary and got to know her, understand her). River described their time together while writing in her diary and mentioned "and then finally we lay together again". I had thought it meant literally lying down together but River being River, it could have meant they had, well, fucked. I don't understand the how of it though XD but they're River and the Doctor so kudos to them I guess?

erm this was quite long sorry for that >⁠.⁠<

ever questioning, Tia 💌

Thanks Tia! I liked your Star-Crossed initial review too :) “I also love how this smashes any belief that River forces the Doctor to have sex with her or do anything that the Doctor is uncomfortable with.” because YES. Yes, yes, yes. Anyway. A cut before I respond to each of these things.

1) Right?? Swipe Right could not have been more direct in repeating that the Doctor was bothered by the idea of marriage/relationships, not by River herself. The way writers give us aroace Nine, and some people can only see their ship war? Ah well.

2) Oh my god I totally misused infatuation — editing that! How do words work haha. I was thinking along the lines of… “Someone you can walk into your life and make you see everything completely differently.” “Harvey said that to me. Oh, believe me, Captain. The Doctor has already done that to me, multiple times.” Falling in love with the same person again and again… like older couples who consistently put in the work to go on regular dates, lighting these new sparks with new experiences even after being together for decades… couples like the Doctor and River. (Oh, my sweet Mels. There is a thin line between infatuation and brainwashing </3 Personally, I would say student River was her infatuation phase — researching him for positive reasons instead of murderous ones.)

3) River barely noticing the different bodies is so. <3 This corporeal form that is so tied to a human's sense of identity — yet to River or the Master, it’s no different than a particularly-physically-taxing change of clothes. Who hasn’t regenerated a few times? River gets to judge him for insisting on the face of a twelve-year-old. River gets to shoot off his hats. (Eleven radiating his “How do you do fellow kids?” energy.)

4) Oh yes, Nine and Ten were so self-righteous about guns. (River was so cute with Ten, too!) Ah, if Eleven had treated UNIT the way Ten had. Rory with his auton wrist-gun. Bad girl Churchill with his revolver. Miscellaneous Americans. I like to think the heart-to-heart over Wilf’s gun coinciding perfectly with regeneration helped him get past it; Eleven’s no-gun rule seems a lot more “good men don’t need rules, today is not the day to find out why I have so many” vibes. He doesn’t trust himself to use guns, but he does trust River — he believes in her far more than she believes in herself. (That said, YES— I really love the idea of the Doctor being very supportive of young student River having her guns, so that she feels safe. Even if she has PTSD flashbacks/brainwashing relapses and tries to kill him, he couldn’t care less; his only priority is making sure she feels safe and comfy, when she can. I wrote a fic with that as a theme lmao.) (Why you gotta BREAK MY HEART (girl I’m glad you do). Eleven standing alone against the colorless, minimalist console, hands pressed over the secret gun compartment he prepared — to show her how much she means to him — paralyzed by grief, torn between the need to be near to her and the need to protect himself from further heartsbreak, listening to River move around the room. Do you think River had her favorite alpha-meson blaster in the Library? He'll never be able to retrieve it. Nardole's not going to know to grab a gun.)

5) Oh, Archipelago. The way it completely gets these two, from the glorious to the dysfunctional, to the root reasons they just work. Secrets call for trust; but trust without the need of secrets becomes something so beautiful. Also, there's something I appreciate about the handling of an aspect that seems to get confused (by those who speculate “it's not love, the timeline forced it” as per that infamous-ish Harbo Wholmes video (okay, it's infamous-ish to doctorriver fans. Harbo has some misses haha); like we need further proof having a wedding isn't the only way to whisper in your lover’s ear). Nine's “Don't you wanna see what that's like to be with me, not cause it's preordained or prophesyed, just two people bobbing about taking it slow?” leading to their sharing secrets no other Doctor and River had shared before. The exploration wherein — far from their relationship being forced by the timeline — the temporal constraints of the fixed points of their deaths actually mean they have to work even harder for the relationship to be what it is, yet they create together something cosmically beautiful out of tragedy (“you know how much I use [the VM] to bind our lives together.”).

6) Huh, yeah, “And finally, we lay together again, in the height of the dark” sounded to me about lying down too! I did get the impression that lying down was the default since the coral infection (at least for River). River does love her innuendos in their verbal dance of wit (aka flirting), but it’s her diary, not the Bible… I think she would be more explicit than that, even if she is aiming for brevity! It wouldn't fit the vibe (in my opinion). As you say, they're barely able to move. And not that aroace people never fuck, but (personally) the idea of that here does leave the unsavory impression that River would've gone with it at the last hour while knowing it's not his thing, with the “whether you know that or not — whether you feel that or not” line coming afterwards despite the fact that he certainly “knows” their future at this point, from front to back to front to back again. (Also “acting like a couple again” is so subjective since QPPs do a lot of things that are typically associated with couples? like the physical intimacy between River and Nine?) Not being aroace myself I will try to speak more generally to avoid speaking over people on a topic I'm not qualified to speak on — but I think, at least, it would be very disappointing if it meant that — I know that it means a lot to me (and I become very protective) when I see positively-represented aspects of my own identity that are rarely portrayed in a non-stereotyped light — and it would indicate at best a major lack of miscommunication between writers after Swipe Right, or worse: if the implication was to uncritically imply his orientation could be altered by the right partner…? Anyway: I still see it as queerplatonic personally, but thanks for pointing out that observation because I wouldn't have thought of that line! (Also, I can't speak for your twitter mutual, who I don't know, etc.)

Anyway, thank you for the ask! 💌

Love the SMALL CAPS and YOU ARE LEGENDARY for them.