#not a fan about how pervy they make Dean in this Season though

[theaudacitytowrite]

DUUUDE! They dialed up that violence real quick!

[vintagedean]

First, I'm just happy to know that you're both deastiel and daddycest/wincest shipper, since it's so hard to find someone like this in fandom nowdays. Second, about polar looks at John in fandom, I myself see that a lot of younger folks OR newer fans tend to paint John as exclusively bad guy, worse than satan, should rot in hell, etc. With people who both older and was in fandom back when show first aired, don't matter what they ship, I tend to see more nuanced opinions. (1/2)

It's not like I have something about younger/never fans of course. I just think that maybe if your fist impressions on John were then, when he was more morally grey and also you saw how he love his kids and they love him, it's kind of stuck with you. But maybe it's just my luck with corner of fandom I see? (2/2) Btw, about that episode with boys home — I just can't treat it as canon, it's completely ooc for me, and not because I think John was NOT as shit as father (but yes I actually think this). It's just that he so obsessed with ceep them both close, supervised, he needs Dean close to double supervise Sam, he hates when someone from outside interfere with his family etc. Like, I would get if he beat Dean for losing all money at cards etc (1/2) (I don't think he was like... phisically abusive all the time as fandom tends to say, but ok). But not this. Also it feels like milking simpathetic points for Dean and like, that one episode with lucky charms already did it and did better. Anyway, sorry for rant and of course it's all just my opinion and I understand that not everyone thinks like this! Sorry if it was too agressive! (2/2) Oh, and about canon and not canon, what's your opinion on John's diary? For me it's much more canon than seasons after 5 lol. But jokes aside, I think it's great piece of canon and make John much more deep without treting him as saint. I love how he promised hinself that "it's all will be over and Dean will have normal life like any day now, like, we should just suffer a little more, maybe week or month" for literally twenty years for example.

yes, it’s awesome to have a destiel friend! i’ve also been unsure of ~outing myself~ bc i know there’s a divide. but what if i want to write pervy destiel too lol??? 

i think your comment about the age of fans and their feelings about john is really plausible! i think those of us who watched during the original s1-s5 arc and were part of fandom know there just wasn’t the same kind of discourse. wank was a thing, but you tagged for wank and kept it aside, and now things have shifted and wank has been elevated to discourse and is very public. i don’t think that’s bad, but i think if you’re a newer fan coming into a fandom with 15 years worth of content to discourse about, a character like john really suffers because he’s got a very questionable background. obviously newer fans are probably entering with destiel already part of their awareness given the spn/destiel renaissance, so if a lot of anti-john stuff is living there, they’re gonna be exposed more immediately to it. 

i agree john loves dean and sam, and dean and sam love john. i think you can love the thing that hurts you, though, and what i wish more than anything was that the show had leaned in more to the aftermath of john in dean and sam’s life, instead of sometimes making a vague allusion to abuse of any kind, and then flipping back to “wait, but we love john!” i appreciate the reunion episode for what it gives to sam and dean, but from a fan standpoint, it makes me want to tear out my hair. and don’t even get me started on john and mary happily together in heaven. have you read the poet!dean fic everyone goes on about? it really is quite lovely, and there’s so much incredible john stuff in it, in how dean feels about john, how he and sam feel.  

i can see what you’re saying about the boys’ home situation, that it would make more sense for john to want dean close. i can also see john wanting dean to learn from his mistakes (getting caught, probably more than the stealing) and making him go. john did it multiple times, which is hard to think about. and I have to say, i disagree about this being a way to milk sympathy points for dean. i feel like we know so little about dean’s internal emotional life as a kid, given there’s only been a handful of episodes about life on the road with dad, and this is an episode that gives us an emotional look into that life. i like dean whump tho, so i could be biased lol. you are definitely not coming off as aggressive! i totally understand how you feel. i don’t agree on parts lol, but that’s okay! 

as for john’s diary, i think it’s canon insomuch as you want it to be canon. i have it myself, and the pins that go inside of it, bc i have a lot of john feels lol. and i agree, it gives a great insight into john (and also dean--the fact that kid was MUTE for a while? makes me out of my goddamnn mind). i haven’t read through all of it yet, but yeah. i think it’s an official piece of merchandise for the show, and that if you want it to be canon, it CAN be. and if you don’t, then don’t. 

thank you so much for the asks!!! i am always happy to chat <3