#nettles' characterization

[horizon-verizon]

Nettles is Daemon’s daughter and absolutely no one can convince me otherwise. First of all, her personality is incredibly similar to Daemon’s mother, Alyssa, which I don’t think is a coincidence. Both are anything but refined and ladylike, Alyssa is “as bawdy a wench as any barmaid in King’s Landing, as she herself was fond of boasting”, Nettles is “a filthy girl with an even filthier mouth”, both are tearaway tomboys, they are both described as not conventionally attractive, Alyssa has a broken nose and mismatched eyes while Nettles has a scarred nose and crooked teeth. And not only Alyssa, but also Baelon’s bravery, bopping Balerion on the nose, Baela and Daemon’s personalities all echo in Nettles, particularly in how she tames Sheepstealer. There are too many similarities between them for it to be random.

Second of all, if we look at Daemon’s reaction to “Rhaenyra’s” letter, there’s something a lot of people miss:

The prince greeted me politely, but as he read I saw the joy go from his eyes, and a sadness descended upon him, like a weight too heavy to be borne. When the girl asked what was in the letter, he said, ‘A queen’s words, a whore’s work.’

He was happy when he got a letter from his queen and wife, but became very sad when he read its contents, he was crushed with grief. He then blamed Mysaria for the content of the letter. This reveals several things:

1. If he lost attraction to Rhaenyra and was cheating on her, why would he be happy to get her letter ?

2. If he didn’t care about Rhaenyra, why would he be sad instead of angry ? Why did he feel no guilt or shame, or try to cover up the truth if he was cheating ?

3. If all he wanted to do was control Rhaenyra as a puppet, if he only cared about himself having power, why didn’t he fly back to King’s Landing after letting Nettles escape and come up with a way to gaslight Rhaenyra, who at this point was beginning to lose her handle on King’s Landing ? Wouldn’t he have wanted to prioritize winning the war ? Persuade Rhaenyra to name their son Aegon heir instead of Joffrey ?

4. A “weight too heavy to be borne.” That isn’t the reaction of a man who got caught cheating and regrets it, it’s the reaction of a man devastated that his queen and wife lost faith in him and made him choose between her and his daughter.

He blames Mysaria for the letter, instead of getting angry at Rhaenyra herself. Why is that ? Because he lived with Rhaenyra in an unconventional joint family for a decade and yet Rhaenyra is unable to accept Nettles and doesn’t trust him anymore. Rhaenyra and Daemon raised all of their children together. He likely expected that he’d be able to officially introduce Nettles as his daughter after the war. But those plans were dashed terribly.

Yeah, it's exhausting to point out all of the things you say abt Mysaria, Nettles, and Daemon time and time again over the past few years to people. As for Nettles being Daemon's bio daughter, I truly believe in it. At first I was like "🤨" but then "🤔" and now I've been on board for a while. It just makes sense to me, esp when you contemplate that Daemon absolutely would have been sleeping around on Rhea while a few feet/miles from the Stepstones or slept with some pirate or whatever. And yes, it adds so much to see Nettles act Baela-Daemon-like or have more...room to behave contrary to the ideal "lady" when she's had to look out for herself perhaps from very young childhood.

[horizon-verizon]

Some team black people hate Daenerys and it makes no sense to me.

Most Important Part in discussing the Context of the Dance in Regards to Daenerys Stormborn:

Despite House Targaryen embracing the sexist Andal traditions about succession, the future of the house now rests on the shoulders of a woman....Not only that, but she awakened dragons from stone, thus beginning to heal the damage done by the Dance and the greens' misogyny.

As OP states, Rhaenyra should have been Queen. Two things can be true:

The same classist paradigm coming from the process of Targ assimilation & supplying the rationale for the greens's cause/that they use to usurp Rhaenyra is ALSO exactly what Rhaenyra came to rely on too much for power--shown through her quickened end in how she treated Nettles the way she does.

tweets come from former brideoffires:

Basically, like Nettles, Dany relied more on compassion & wit, and through these she will save the world, herself, and her own family legacy. Even though Rhaenyra, in a patriarchal world, had to appeal herself to men in some way to get them to fight for her own cause (as she does with Rosby & Stokeworth), this is different from the Nettles issue because she definitely had a freer choice there. To just believe Daemon and wait things out.

Yes, she was paranoid from:

2x child-loss grief

at least 2 betrayals from those who she had granted privileges & access to dragons

has had the anxiety of having to live with a whole faction plotting against her from childhood AND then when she likely thought things would go well for her, she was usurped

BUT

unlike the Rosby & Stokeworth deal, whether she killed Nettles or imprisoned the dragonseeds or not was not going to actually materially affect her ability to keep her throne. She went after Nettles & the dragonseeds leftover (Addam & Alyn Velaryon/of Hull) just to feel more in control. And it was the wrong, damning choice.

Dany will be that necessary healer & savior of both the general Targaryen error/wrongs AND Rhaenyra's complicity in that wrongdoing. We have a lot of paradoxes in GRRM's writing, and it's fun/rewarding to acknowledge them.

Rhaenyra's Victory

The "nobody won the Dance" argument is so ridiculous and just flat out wrong. Certain fans (read TG stans), constantly argue that, because Rhaenyra and Aegon both died, the Dance had no victor. GRRM clearly disputes this in both F&B and ASOIAF.

In F&B, the end of the Dance is clearly in favor of the Blacks, despite Rhaenyra's murder. Cregan Stark and the rest of the Black forces took KL, forced the last of the Green supporters to surrender, and placed Aegon III (Rhaenyra's oldest surviving child) on the throne. After that, the last of Aegon II's line died with Jaehaera, leaving Rhaenyra's as the only legitimate and surviving royal line. That means, in simple terms, Rhaenyra's family won the war. They were the survivors of the war and ruled for the rest of the Targaryen Dynasty.

Speaking of the rest of the dynasty, there's a second way GRRM makes Rhaenyra's victory clear, and that's through Daenerys Targaryen. Despite the Blacks winning the final conflict of the Dance, male primogeniture was accepted and reinforced throughout the following kings' reigns. Baela and Rhaena were passed over as options to be Aegon III's heirs before his marriage to Daenaera. Daena and her sisters were passed over in favor of Viserys II and his children. Vaella was dismissed in favor of Aegon V. The first woman to be named heir to the IT since Rhaenyra was Dany, something done purely because she was Viserys III's final surviving relative (no, the relatives in other houses don't count).

No matter the reason Dany was named as heir, she eventually succeeded her brother as the head of House Targaryen and the rightful ruler of Westeros. After becoming the head of the house, she awoke dragons from stone and became Khaleesi of her own Khalasar. Dany then began a conquest across Slaver's Bay and eventually conquered Meereen and became its queen. Thus she became a conqueror and queen in her own right.

Despite House Targaryen embracing the sexist Andal traditions about succession, the future of the house now rests on the shoulders of a woman. Dany is the final ruler belonging to the house, a queen regnant who overcame every man who stood in her way. Not only that, but she awakened dragons from stone, thus beginning to heal the damage done by the Dance and the greens' misogyny.

Dany, a woman, is the savior of House Targaryen and arguably one of its most powerful rulers to date. She not only is continuing its legacy, but is bettering it. Rhaenyra's legacy is her female descendant who will save not only the house but the whole goddamn world. Dany enacts radical social change in Essos, rules her city well (as much as she can with the slavers' interference), and brought dragons, the key to defeating the Others, back into the world. Daenerys is Rhaenyra's final victory over the greens' misogyny and treason.

[bohemian-nights]

People really are missing the point of a character like Nettles. Being the a non-Valyrian dragonrider is what makes her different(in every positive definition of that word) and helps to serve a larger purpose in this story.

Valyrian blood is not special. It’s not needed to do great things. No one is special because of what family they happen to be born into.

A non-Valyrian Nettles shows that we are more than the circumstances which we are born into. Our birth, our names, and our very blood does not define us. Our actions are what do. We can overcome so much and rise to become absolutely extraordinary with a little bit of determination, patience, and a dash of help along the way. Nettles exemplifies that to the fullest extent.

She's more than a Black Valryian. She doesn’t have to be Valyrian. She shouldn’t have to be Valyrian.

She’s a survivor. She’s a final girl. She’s a Black low-born girl likely without a drop of dragons blood that tames a wild dragon with patience that killed countless others who had dragons blood. She survived the Dance where others high and low alike fell and perished to become a firewitch to the Burned Men.

Her legacy is immortalized in the history books(and by the Burned Men cause they still worship her) as one of the last(if not the last) dragonrider(s) before Dany all without having any known Valyrian ancestry.

[ride-thedragon]

'Nettles characterization wouldn't work if she's older."

A smart, foul-mouthed, dirty, twenty five year old who manages to be the only person since Old Valyria to claim a wild dragon.

A thief and loner whose sexual promiscuity is built into the narrative.

A home rennovator and big sister type at the same time, in the same family...

Her knowing Marilda as a peer on Driftmark

Understanding her background through her well into adult mannerisms

Self preservation without kids at that age

Potential sapphic undertones

Daemon pulling someone age appropriate.

A woman in ASOIAF whose sexual relationships don't affect her innocence in the narrative and actively serves to save her.

What's not working?

Where is the Ayo casting announcement?

Are you not a Natasha Lyonne Fan?

Are you LGBT?

[navree]

i hate twitter i did NOT just see someone comparing jace and baela and rhaena to the conquerors, the disrespect

[literaryvein-reblogs]

do you have any tips on how to write for a quiet character living a comfortable life abruptly being forced to adapt to a rowdy and somewhat violent environment?

Writing Ideas: Quiet Characters

common literary & character tropes

Beware the Quiet Ones: When the character who is hardly ever upset about something, suddenly raises their voice, the world turns upside down and seems to come to an end. There is an unleashed raging or cold speech of epic proportions that not even the most demented character in the story would want to sit through. This rage is almost always expressed verbally, though violence can also be included. Another version could be when the heroes' team is in low spirits, and The Quiet One, fed up with all the sulking, throws the table (or something else) to the side and gives a Rousing Speech to their comrades.

Elective Mute: It turns out that a character assumed to be unable to talk actually can speak, they just choose to be silent most of the time.

Emotionless Girl: An enigmatic female character who appears to be entirely emotionless. Whether she actually is emotionless depends on the story and often on her level of characterization.

Heroic Mime: A hero who never speaks.

Silent Scapegoat: Somebody who willingly takes the blame for everyone else's wrongdoings.

Suddenly Speaking: A character who was initially silent eventually reveals that they can speak after all.

The Quiet One: A character who does speak, but not as much as the other characters.

The Stoic: Quiet demeanor tends towards the brusque or outright rudeness, though there are a few polite Stoics. Some stoics may try to give the impression of a lot going on inside, cultivate an air of mystery and confuse other characters with cryptic one-liners. The Stoic sometimes displays emotion when under extreme stress or in other highly emotional situations, but their usual repertoire consists of mild boredom, detached interest, Dull Surprise or dignified disdain. The Stoics in ancient Greece were philosophers who believed that self-control is the highest virtue, and detachment from strong emotions and passion would give them greater insight in their quest for truth. They also thought that emotional reactions to the inevitable were silly; given that We All Die Someday, what is grieving over death but a judgment that the inevitable was somehow wrong? Stoics would later be criticized for fatalism and apathy.

The Voiceless: A character isn't shown speaking, but might still be capable of speech.

Tranquil Fury: This character can range from happy or stoic, but their anger is more quiet (but still dangerous). What defines this trope is the tendency to become deadly serious when it gets deadly serious.

Examples

In the story "The Six Swans", collected by the Grimm Brothers and Hans Christian Andersen among others, a Fallen Princess must make six shirts out of nettles and can't make a sound for seven years or the spell that transformed her six brothers into swans will never be broken. She manages to keep all of these conditions and gets to break the spell. This is an example of the Elective Mute trope.

Peter in Jumanji, who talks to no one but his older sister Judy ever since their parents' death by car accident. Once Alan gets out of the game and finds his parents are also dead, Peter starts talking to him as well.

Charles Wallace was an Elective Mute trope a child in A Wrinkle in Time. By the time of the later books, he has grown out of it.

Irish Mythology: The battle trance Nuada enters before the first battle of Maige Tuired is sometimes described as a battle fury. However, unlike The Riastrad, the famous "Warp Spasm" of the hero Cu Chulainn, Nuada does not become a berserker, but instead becomes exceptionally calm. This is an example of the Tranquil Fury trope.

Older Than Steam. Shakespeare's Henry V has the eponymous character's Tranquil Fury reaction to the tennis balls.

Dead Poets Society: The shy and insecure Todd Anderson spends most of the film struggling to get out two full sentences and is overlooked by the school and his parents. After his best friend kills himself, the school tries to bully him (and the other boys) into pinning the blame on their favorite teacher — and he leads half the class in an outright rebellion against the headmaster.

Don Vito Corleone from The Godfather is famously very soft-spoken, even hoarse, but an extremely menacing screen presence.

In the original novel The Godfather, both Vito and Michael Corleone were noted as young men for being soft-spoken, understated, and reasonable, especially in contrast to many of their Sicilian immigrant and first-generation compatriots. They go on to become in turn the most feared "Family" heads of their generations, while still rarely raising their voices above a normal speaking tone.

Sources: 1 2 3 4 ⚜ More: References ⚜ Writing Resources PDFs

This is already quite a specific character, and it seems you have a rough idea of your storyline. I don't want to intrude too much on your story, so I compiled tropes and examples in literature as well as other media that are somewhat related to what you described, and you could perhaps incorporate these (& edit as needed/desired) to further flesh out your specific character and plot. Consider which direction you want your story to go; what reactions you want your own character to show once they're thrust into that new environment (Will they continue to be quiet? Will they go the other end of the spectrum? Perhaps somewhere in between? Will they succeed in "adapting" in this new environment?). Do go through the sources for more information and examples. Plus these previous posts that may be useful as well:

On Shyness ⚜ On Mutism ⚜ On Introverts

Word Alternatives: Quiet ⚜ Five-Factor Model of Personality

[animatewarriorcats]

Yarrowleaf! She is Daughter to Scorchfur and Snowbird, of their second litter, sister to Beenose and Bluebellkit. Yarrowleaf is a bit of an interesting background character, in the first three books of AVOS her characterization seems to bend to what the plot needs, whether that's being a petulant apprentice, a young but loyal shadowclan warrior, or a defiant member of the kin. She earns her Shadowclan warrior name before the Kin take over, and once they do she appears to be kin loyal to Darktails death. In River of Fire she reappears very pregnant alongside Sleekwhisker to beg sanctuary from Skyclan. Violetpaw remembers her as being one of Darktails closest followers, and Leafstar banishes both she-cats to their connection to the rogue. This event expedites the erosion of the Shadowclan Skyclan alliance, and even though the two she cats are allowed back in to skyclan for Yarrowleaf's kits to be delivered, the offer is only temporary. Ultimately Sleekwhisker betrays Yarrowleaf and steals her kits flaxkit and hopkit in return for Nettle's alliance to kill Rowanstar's as revenge for the sleek's damaged youth because the Shadowclan leader had failed to drive out Darktail before he could destroy shadowclan. In the end, Yarrowleaf is allowed to stay in Shadowclan when Tigerstar returns to revive the clan. She has some minor appearances in the Broken Code arc, most notably as first a supporter of atonement with the comment that "leaders should lead" to Tigerstar during the gathering where the imposter confronts him about dovewing, but later she is even more fiercely a proponent for killing the captured Thunderclan leader, saying that healing his body was '"just helping a dead cat walk around in his fur". In Starless clan so far she has been a minor background character, but notably joins the Shadowclan faction against clan switching which is led by her sister Berryheart.

Her coloration is described as Ginger, but even if Snowbird were a solid ginger under a dominant white masking gene (she's not, see Berryheart and Cloverfoot), Yarrowleaf would have to inherit a non-orange color gene from her father Scorchfur. I decided to make her a silver tabico, with a high level of red prevelance, not unlike these cats:

[horizon-verizon]

The only reason Nettles was cut was to give Rhaena some role, because she is useless throughout the entire dance and she appears for one minute at the very end. That's why they created a "conflict" between her and Daemon over a dragon.

You should block me anon, bc I disagree with this notion on mainly 3 accounts:

LINK (Rhaena's characterization and her role vs Nettles' during and after the war) -- no matter what, Nettles & Rhaena's stories are NOT interchangeable without destroying a lot of the lore and the connection to Dany they each have uniquely on their own…which is the point of F&B, to contextualize Dany's importance and character

the Dance is not just about the war but what lead up to it...GRRM himself has said he'd rather they began the show with Aemon & Baelon...that's a story right there even thought these 2 characters are not at all a part of the actual war. You have been fooled into believing the war is the only or primary event that created the characters instead of the characters making/creating the circumstances for the war...or you are one of those people who don't like to go over themes, can't stand non-war/violent/frenzied drama character action & development, and/or exploring-discovering depth & nuance in characters as they directly interact with their world and people (as Rhaena: schmoozing lords, getting to know how to rule or observe social situations from Jeyne, observe human behaviors and relationships through Jeyen-Jessamyne and develop a relationship with Corwyn Corbray so that when the war ends we can feel THAT much more broken over the end of her family and "what could have been"--OR her trying to find a way to hatch her dragon egg by looking for scrolls and such--- would/could have become--ALL of which is Rhaena is another link for Jeyne to Rhaenyra and Targ interests what present another layer of "women need to stick together" that Jeyne was canonically all about...there is an added layer of FAMILY & unity over and over again that the show simply refused or ignorantly didn't take advantage of).....in which case--as Condal might have missed hearing-- Go be with God. Nothing much else to say. You either are open to story, or you're just here "for a good time" and spectacle. In which case, don't claim spectacle = story and just be honest about it. To yourself and others.

With F&B, there are already storylines that anyone could have just "filled in" with plausible and lore/plot/character-faithful "elements" or "what could have happened" to connect the written plot events to each other in different ways and become diff trajectories of the same story; there are many ways that one could write the Dance while keeping the FACTUAL (as in they def happenid in Planetos and back then i the Dance era) events, their sequence, and the lore intact. Therefore, you could create a very round and interesting and full-of-heart story for Rhaena at the Vale, esp if you maybe included her also studying up on Valyrian stuff in her own attempts to hatch what would become Morning.

[blackcat419]

There is no story or logistic reason for Nettles to not be in HotD.

No excuse the creators will give will justify not including her.

Too many characters? Cut Ulf or Hugh, they’re the same guy

Her story line is unclear? Literally everyone has an unclear or incomplete story line. Ulf and Hugh don’t have characters beyond drunk brute and you gave them characterization!

Want Rhaena to have more of a plot? Then make up a plot for her! Give her the job of negotiating with Pentos or organizing the vale army.

The Velaryons are already black? Is there a limit on the number of black characters now?

Any excuse the show runners use is just their thinly vailed attempt to disguise their racism, misogyny, misogynoir, and classism.

[visenyaism]

what triggered the daemon riverlands suicide bender again? like did he have a falling out with rhaenyra?

well the book doesn’t say a ton about what happened between them and it’s all made more confusing by the fake historical perspective and weird misogynistic characterization of rhaenyra and mysaria but. fire and blood unserious as it is establishes basically this sequence of events:

-once daemon and rhaenyra get to king’s landing he brings mysaria to court. they’re fucking every night which rhaenyra is seemingly fine with (surprisingly this bit is not a mushroom quote)

-rhaenyra makes a plan to end the war that includes daemon and nettles going and finding aemond in the riverlands to go kill him. unclear whose idea this was or whose idea it was to bring nettles also.

-daemon and nettles hole up in maidenpool because they can’t seem to find the worlds largest dragon actively terrorizing the countryside anywhere. they are weirdly close. because he’s grooming her. they cannot find aemond so theyre stuck like this for weeks. in my mind this is where daemon starts to lose the plot and just not have an exit strategy.

-two of the other dragonseeds betray rhaenyra and join up with daeron the not appearing in this narrative to sack tumbleton. rhaenyra reacts by charging up about 5% of the bastardphobia within the heart of the average team green twitter user and is like okay they are treacherous and base due to their bastard nature they all have to die right now.

-including nettles. rhaenyra sends a letter to the lord of maidenpool saying hey you have to kill this child my husband is obsessed with who is living under your roof i don’t care about guest rite i don’t care about him retaliating against you for this i am literally the king you gotta do it. don’t kill daemon though. xx rhaenyra

-this alienates daemon from rhaenyra permanently though he does take the time to call mysaria a whore and blame her for this too. what an upstanding guy.

-anyways the next morning nettles takes off out of the narrative on her lonesome and daemon tells the lord of maidenpool “this is the last you are ever going to see of me. tell aemond i’m at harrenhal” we can tell at this point there is no exit strategy but for:

-daemon engages in murder-suicide with his nephew who thinks they’re having a fight.

what do we learn about daemon from this? well that he has problems and also doesn’t ever have a long term plan

[whateverthought]

Oh, House of The Dragon is a feminist show? Team Black is a feminist team?

They wrote out Nettles, a canon black woman. They threw away Rhaena's storyline and subsequent characterization. They wrote out her storyline and replaced it with the canon black woman's storyline. Because Rhaena's a black woman in the show? Are they the same now? Because women's stories are interchangeable?

Rhaenyra has spent 5 episodes making no decisions during a War, they changed her grief from ugly and volatile and brutal to the more appropriate sad and weepy, as all good mothers should be.

They changed Laena's death so they can set a precedent for how honorable Rhaenyra's will be. To prop up a white woman. Why is her death not her own?

Daemon kills his wife, who he calls misogynist names constantly, by his own hand. No plausible deniability, no assassins, he's there. Why did they show it? A woman's death that was only implied to be his fault in the books, but they had to portray a woman's death. What did it accomplish? What did I have to see so bad? Is this Domestic Violence?

Both Daemon and Rhaenyra have sex on the day of Laena's funeral, with her family in the building, including her grieving daughters. And then they get married that week. That was his wife, mother of his children, someone whose death brought him to tears. Even if Rhaenyra isn't friends with her in the show canon, she should have some respect for this woman. Do they not honor the dead in Westeros? Do they not have mourning periods? Religion or not, her body was closer to the castle than it was the bottom of the sea. Why did she have three actresses? Why did she have an extra growth spurt? Why was her adult actress significantly older than both Alicente and Rhaenyra's? Wasn't she younger?

Why does Baela only support Jacaerys but not her sister? Why does Baela talk about Rhaenys but not her mother? Because her father has a new wife? Why does Rhaenyra care if Helaena was hurt or scarred by Jaehaerys death when they don't interact at all? Because she's a mother too? Does that make her saintly now? Was Rhaenys not a mother when she wanted Laenor dead? At his sister's, her daughter's funeral. How does she know Helaena is an innocent? How can Rhaenyra be ambitious enough for the throne, how can Alicente be a silver-tongued usurper but not Helaena? Why doesn't Rhaenyra have female friendships? Why are all her female conversations only about making her queen and the war? No wonder people ship Alicente/Rhaenyra

[bohemian-nights]

In defense of Nettles innocence 🐑

Unpopular opinions coming through, Nettles is one of the most innocent characters during the Dance.

Every account of her being “less than innocent” comes from biased sources(the chroniclers) that don’t think that a lowborn girl, especially a homeless Black lowborn girl with a prostitute for a mother who’s had to steal for her supper, can be innocent. She’s simply not allowed to be innocent(other than acknowledging that the execution orders for her were wrong) based on the boxes that she’s been put into.

When you are dealing with a character like Netty you can't take one action in a vacuum. You have to cipher through the biased accounts and take into her entire life story to see who she is. When you actually look at her you have a girl who still possesses a great deal of empathy and compassion despite everything she’s been through and she’s been through a lot.

We never see her harming innocents. During the Battle of the Gullet, we see her defending her home(Driftmark) from the Triarchy:

The civilian casualties came from the Triarchy’s end, not Nettles and Sheepstealer who had come in to attack their ships at sea after they(the Triarchy) had already attacked Driftmark. Nettles never rained “fire and blood” down on the innocent people of Driftmark. She had only come in to protect them.

Furthermore, she shows great empathy when Jace a boy she barely knew was killed before his time during the battle. She mourns for his loss and sacrifice(in conjecture with witnessing the overall destruction of her home).

When the Blacks take the capital, shes not raining down fire balls, she literally just lands her dragon on Visenya’s Hill:

She isn’t a warmonger, or a war criminal, and while she’s technically a soldier, we don’t see her harming any civilians or instigating any fights. She sees very little combat and she’s not terrorizing everyday citizens.

Now onto her “innocence” or lack thereof. If she was forced to prostitute herself(aka if you believe that she’s not a maiden) then it’s most certainly not because she wanted to:

Her losing her virginity isn’t an empowering moment. It’s not a moment we should look onto to show she’s got agency or control or God forbid that she’s a wanton Jezebel. It’s a moment where we see just how dire her circumstances were. We can see how Westeros society harms girls like Nettles and leaves them vulnerable to abuse.

Nettles isn’t willingly having sex(we’ve got no indication of her having normal sexual relations with a lover, with the exception of Daemon, only that she potentially trades sex to feed her belly).

She's not some liberated medieval woman who because of her low status in society has sexual freedom. She’s not choosing to f*ck. That’s not what is happening here. It’s about survival plain and simple. In a world where women do not have many options and lowborn women even less, this is her only option. The option being rape(because again this isn’t something she wants).

She’s potentially a victim of pedophilic rapists. She would’ve forced herself to endure rape when she was a child as young as 9 all to feed herself. The act of losing her innocence is a sin on her abusers and not on her.

Let’s talk about her relationship with Daemon Targaryen. The most “villainous” thing she does is sleep with a man, Daemon, in an open marriage:

A man with whom she finds some amount of happiness (and she’s gotten so little of that). A relationship that hurts no one except her when it’s cruelly ripped away from her (and leaves her reeling in the aftermath because unfortunately, she’s the innocent who suffers from loving a man like Daemon).

In her other sexual dealings(her rape) she isn’t willingly choosing the course of action she’s taking. She’s doing so to survive, but with Daemon for the first time in her life, it’s not only about survival. It’s about her joy. This is what she wants and she puts herself and has someone who is willing to put her needs first.

As far as her slaughtering sheep and symbolism go, the sheep are more so a metaphor for herself. The sheep are her, not her victims or her sins. She's the lamb for slaughter. She's the innocent who is destroyed and transformed by others' sins to

Slaughtering the black ram(which symbolizes strength, determination, and triumph over one’s enemies) when she leaves Daemon marks her final transformation, because up until then I think she had hope and had found some happiness/peace in where she was. She is still a seed sprouting.

However, the last shred of what was is taken away with her execution orders. She therefore grows as a person. She’s overcome what has been thrown at her to come into her own. She is not beholden to anyone. She's her own woman. Yet at the same time, she’s still the same empathetic fearless Netty that she was. Those demons who sought to destroy her did not break her spirit. She's just been freed from them.

At the end of the day, Nettles is just a young woman who’s been dealt an unfair hand in life but still manages to rise above it all and never impart harm on a world that has harmed her.

She’s a scrappy girl who has to do what she has to, but she's not a “bad girl.” She hasn’t done anything reckless or harmful enough(any time she attacks, or steals, or whatever it’s in self-defense) to be considered a “bad girl” (which is why I find the accusation that she is downright untrue when you look at her character's actions) or that she’s even “morally gray” or a “wayward girl.” I think she’s an all around good person who hasn’t done anything fundamentally wrong especially considering the world she lives in.

Nettles is well within her rights to exact some vengeance on a world that has shown her nothing but cruelty and contempt, but when it’s all said and done what does she do? She chooses to lead a quiet life away from it all. She isolates herself and shuns polite society. She chooses peace and solitude rather than violence.

Does Nettles have to be an innocent character? No, but leading with the argument that she’s somehow a deeply flawed character who’s not a innocent to prove a point that you can do bad things and still deserve sympathy which is an important point to make, but it isn’t telling her story. There are plenty of characters throughout the Dance who are less than innocent that you can sympathize with, Nettles, however, isn’t one of them.

I think it’s a cop-out to say that Nettles isn’t innocent because that’s how the world, both ours and in universe, sees her. She’s not a mother whose innocent child has been unjustly murdered right before her eyes, or a little girl who witnessed her family killing each other, and she’s not one of the faceless victims of the Dance. She doesn’t have blonde hair or pale skin.

Physically, she’s not what we think of when we think of “innocent” and that blinds our own opinions of her and her story despite who she’s shown to be.

It takes more to see past our biases, to take off the goggles, and to truly recognize that she’s not a corrupted person than to say that she’s innocent because that is what we see when we look at her.

We don’t recognize that someone like Nettles is one of the innocents whose life was almost destroyed by the destruction around her. We don’t see that she is unquestionably a good girl who has a lot of garbage thrown her way but manages to rise above it and not sink into its depravity because that is not what we have been taught to see.

Instead, we see the less-than-innocent girl who while she did not deserve to be murdered, she still has something about her that leaves one feeling like she is tainted.

[ride-thedragon]

My Characterization of Nettles.

I saw it come up that she's often mischaracterised, and rather than thinking about it throughly, I decide to take it as a criticism of the people who go out of their way to write her with broken English (I speak in my dialect so it's especially strange seeing some form of it written) and entirely childish, ignoring the fact that she's, smart and lived alone in a classist society, surviving so long by herself.

I also want to justify my own characterization because I think it's a bit different.

So the way I think about her is a smart, mouthy girl. She speaks well enough. She picks up different cultural slang and languages from around Driftmark, and her naiveté only shows itself with her actual age. She's at the age where most people question the systems that harm them, and as a brown skin, poor person in this world, she'd be in a unique position. She overcompensates for it, though. She doesn't let it show as much.

I think she's a quick thinker and fast learner as well. She observed the way Sheepstealer was interacting with people and saw the only thing he'd bend for, using it to her advantage. So, while Daemon is teaching her these things, she's actually responding to it.

She's a bit inquisitive as well. She cares to understand what she has to do before she does it.

Now, the mouthy part comes into how I think she earned the foul-mouthed reputation. She doesn't code switch while interacting with anyone. Say how she'd talk to Jace and a bar maid it doesn't change. She knows she can, but she doesn't want to. She speaks with the common tongue well enough, but she doesn't speak in the manner of someone who's talking to a prince and ladies.

It's genuinely vile things that shouldn't be said as well as just cursing.

Now, the next part is tied to her alleged love interest, Daemon. But I think she can be a very disagreeable person when she wants to be. It's not something that has helped her, but it is the reason why she doesn't have a lot of people around her early on. Daemon tends to like strong personalities.

She doesn't deal with authority well. That's just based on the fact that she's been alone for so long, with no one going out of their way to treat her like her age.

The innocence of her character is something I tend to disagree with a lot as well. She would hurt a fly, she'd kill a sheep, and she was raised on the streets of Driftmark. The moral pillar of innocence, like being overly trusting and caring, is a strange thing to apply to her.

She isn't a pious person. I know this part is strange, but in a world like Westeros, where sex is a form of currency, especially for non royal/rich women, I think she's had a few sexual encounters. Now I love the avoiding brothel work characterization, but I don't think commodifying sex is such an out of place thing for a girl in her position, it was a learning curve for figuring her way in the world without a big concequence like a kid. ( A small headcanon is that she fell for a bard from essos once, like a crush a young girl typically has).

I think her grief over Jace came from a place of bonding and putting her trust in someone for the first time and losing them so violently. Most people, unless they are victims of propaganda like Mr Jamie Lannister, don't want to fight in a war. During the fight, bodies are burned and piled, and entire ports are left burned and filled with ash. We see the Driftmark Characters have a distinct reaction for participating in the war that burned the place they were raised. Nettles has a lot of blood on her hands.

She has no one to confide that in.

I think after that, she gets a lot more agreeable because no one is looking out for her. It's a dangerous place to occupy, Rhaneyra is hardened by Jace’s death,and is killing people left and right for treason, that's terrifying.

Thankfully, she's sent away with a stranger who's dealing with the same shared grief that she has. She's been at the brunt of them losing two more kids and has just lost her home.

She's also sent away in a very similar situation to what had her crying on Driftmark. She has to see what Aemond is doing to the Riverlands after the Battle of the Gullet. She has someone to lean on, though, seeing as she gets really close to Daemon.

Close enough that her life being called for by the ruler of the seven kingdoms is put at the same risk factor as killing her and him finding out.

I genuinely think she becomes very similar to the person she was before which is why......

Lastly, she doesn't willingly leave. This is attributed to the tears, but I think Daemon lied and said he'd return to his family. That he wouldn't fight Vhagar. I don't think she'd allow him to sacrifice himself in that way.

All of this is speculation based on a character we don't know, so if it seems strange, that's fair.

[certifiedskywalker]

Three Weddings and Your Funeral (Part 2) - Daemon Targaryen

Anonymous asked: Hi certi, how are you ? I love all you're stories and most you do daemon targaryen characterization justice could you do second part  to Three Weddings and Your Funeral - Daemon Targaryen ?

Before the Dance of Dragons, there was another waltz. You and Daemon Targaryen were always drifting in and out, always spinning about one another without moving at all. Your dance of stillness stretched across the continent; but you thought you ended that dance long ago…Daemon, as always, had other ideas.

Part One

A twig splintered beneath your foot with a sharp, ear-tingling snap. At the sound, you caught your loud, ragged breath in your throat, careful not to add insult to self-inflicted injury. You let your gaze fall to the split thing under your shoe and cursed it in the quiet of your mind before daring to look back up towards the abandoned fishing hut. The storm-toppled tree branch that split its planks would be a warning realized too late. When you did look, its foreshadowing was the furthest from your attention.

“I thought I taught you better,” Daemon chided, slinking out of the shadows cast by the hut. His dark armor and silver hair glinted in the moonlight. Under its glow, he was alive and rippling like the bay waves that lapped quietly at the shoreline. One step in the wrong direction and you would be overcome: dragged under and drowned in him. It didn’t help that his eyes moved like the tide too: wishing and washing up and down your frame. “You look well.”

You swallowed after a long moment, forcing the caught breath into your lungs. “Sneaking about King’s Landing in your shadow hardly constitutes a lesson.”

Daemon hummed, the sound light and affirming, tilted up like the start of a dear song; and there you were, being lulled into the warm ease of familiarity. No, nothing about being familiar with Daemon was warm or easy. It was sweltering and you had somehow forgotten about the heat. It returned to you then, and the memory stung with vengeance. 

“What are you doing here?” Your voice did not waver with the question, which surprised you. Perhaps time weakened Daemon’s ability to drag you under. 

“I could ask the same of you,” he countered. The closed-lip smirk etched onto his features was unmoved by your bravery. “You sent word.”

“And you listened, after all this time.” Daemon lingered in his spot in the sand before he stepped towards you, his expression becoming clearer and all the more taunting. It was as if he knew how you, just hours before, had clutched the parchment and traced his lettering. “Did you ever stop listening?”

Nettle-like memories again: endless, stinging flashes of tourneys and weddings spent at Daemon’s side. So many years spent biding by his beck and call like a hound eager to please. What did you have to show for your dedication? A single kiss, before being left entirely to fend for yourself. How you had loathed his silence then; but, with him stood just a pace away, you found yourself unwilling to give him the satisfaction of the truth.

So, you ignored him and asked again, this time through gritted teeth: “What are you doing here?” 

Daemon cocked his head, his smirk widening ever-so-slightly, and stepped towards you until he was only an arm's length from you.

“Why?”

“Why?” 

“Why did you come to meet me here?” His eyes were dark but not like the pitch night about you. The fire in him shone through as it always had, but it was dimmer than you remembered. At your last meeting, his gaze had been wild, spitting like coals needing air…needing you, however briefly. What had he blamed then?

“Impulse.”

With the word, memory stung Daemon too. His smirk melted into the lines on his face, some old and others new. Impulse made your hand twitch with an itch to reach up and be taken under his current. Then, you could learn those new lines and trace them as you had with his lettering. 

You managed to still yourself, curling your fingers into tight fists. Daemon’s gaze flicked your hands before it settled on your face with a gripping cold. His scowl-stuck lips parted, sealed, then parted again, a hesitation that had you almost gleeful. At long last, you had knocked him off balance; though, he eventually found his words.

“You married,” he snapped, his tone icy and startling, and suddenly you were the one careening. He leaned in, his eyes searching yours for…what you were unsure. “Did you not think I heard?”

Your marriage into House Cox of Saltpans had been no great news, hardly news at all. It, like many a marriage, was strategic: safety from dancing dragons seemed a better bet in the far, underfed reaches of the Riverlands. 

Saltpans was a quality choice in that regard, having been stymied long ago by men who called themselves River Kings and ruled the Bay of Crabs by boat before Aegon conquered by dragon. Left charterless, the town never sprawled into a city, and trade, while present, was limited to the sweet meat of pygmy crabs and seashell beads carved by those living nearer to the Trident. With such limitations, House Cox, as the town’s stewards, had few arms to provide to the war effort, an insufficiency that left it rather uninvolved in combat. 

At most, what you heard of the Blacks and Greens was the distant roars of whichever Targaryen most recently claimed the ruins of Harrenhal. Though, it seemed that relative, personal peace had worn out. The wave of dread that accompanied that realization washed your mind clean enough to clarify the object of Daemon’s searching eyes. How could you?

“I am married,” you replied, your voice barely above a murmur, “as are you, thrice over.”

Daemon scoffed, letting his face turn down and to the side.

“Did you truly expect me to wait for you after all that happened?” 

“Do not think me so foolish,” he snapped, his head lifting to meet your gaze. In his eyes then, you saw the Daemon so many feared, the worst of the man you had loved for so long.

“I knew you to be so foolish, or at least so cruel as to expect that of me.”

“Yes, so cruel,” he stepped towards you as he spoke, his boots sinking to the sand with such heated anger that you were surprised the grains did not turn to glass beneath him. “Cruel, yet I have kept my promise. You, your Lord, and these wretched reaches of the Riverlands have been spared dragon fire. Do you think that was by fate? By the Old fucking Gods?”

He was close enough to you then that his breath kissed the peaks of your face, just as it had so many years ago, on another beach, when he told you of his intentions with Rhaenyra. The aching depth of feeling then… It welled up inside you and spilled onto your lips. “Daemon-”

“It was me,” he finished, his nose nearly knocking yours as he leaned closer. “Nyke jāhor daor ivestragī ao zālagon, and you have not burned.”

Daemon smelled of dragon and sweat, and there was the swelter again. Perhaps it was that familiar heat that pushed you to take that one, drowning step, or maybe you were just exhausted by a dance you thought ended years ago. As if you were with Caraxes, you reached a careful hand up to test the heat of the air about his face. Your palm was immediately met with warmth and Daemon’s cheek as he pressed his face into your skin. 

Your breath hitched at the feeling, but your thumb traced the peak of his cheekbone with a gentleness you feared you had lost when you lost Daemon. Comforted and angling for a different approach, you asked your first question again, gentler than before: “Is that what brought you here?”

Daemon merely closed his eyes and pressed his face harder in your touch. So, you asked another way: “Were you compelled by another impulse to tell me, again, that you have danced about me without my knowing? You have known where I was since my leaving you and, again, shielded me from the hard truth?”

“From war,” he murmured, the edge of his lips tickling your palm.

“The truth,” you asserted, and before he protested, you continued. “How?”

Daemon’s eyes fluttered open and it was as if you were children again, before weddings and feelings and knowing. “When I first took Harrenhal for Rhaenyra. I heard of your marriage from the Strong’s there and sent to have eyes on you.”

“By your own admittance, House Cox is removed from your war. There are no spies here in Saltpans.”

“Anyone can be bought,” Daemon answered, much too simply. 

His features went startlingly grey as if remembering a time buried under the sea’s stone bottom, and his eyes fell past you, seeing through the sediment of time. Just like that, Daemon was far from you again. Within your grasp yet entirely out of reach; but there were no arms of another brilliant bride for him to run into. He was, for however long you could stretch this moment, only with you, and how right that felt.

Right, but you knew that, with all he had confessed, you should feel violated, exposed. You should be scathing and demanding an apology. No, you should be demanding that he leave. You and Daemon were married after all, not to each other. Never to each other.

That thought, as it always had, pulled you out from under the tide of him. “You did not answer my question.”

“I did,” he said, his voice alarmingly soft as his gaze flitted back to you. “I have protected y-”

“No, Daemon,” you interrupted, your hand falling from his face. He went rigid immediately, his posture straightening as if shocked by a stabbing blade. The heat of him lingered, but the comfort you had taken in it was gone. “Why are you here, after all this time and everything you have done? If you knew I was here for so long, why not come to me sooner?”

Daemon just stared at you, his sharp eyes and features unyielding. You drank in the sight of his steadfast expression, unsure of how long it would be before you saw it again and too sure that Daemon would leave without giving even a moment’s notice. It was then you saw his armor again, but this time, you saw past the shine of it. You saw the scorch marks, the scratches, each new, like the line in his face. A different sort of heat rushed like a wave against you, nearly knocking you over.

When you looked up at Daemon again, tears stinging in your eyes, he knew that you understood. “I’ve come to take Harrenhal for the last time.”

“The last time,” you echoed grimly, your tears falling freely.

“I wrote to you and then to Green’s own kinslayer,” he winced as if the word struck him before pivoting in his speech. “I am to face Aemond.”

Then, it was your eyes that searched Daemon’s. Your object: fear. When you found no trace, more tears streamed down your cheeks, but Daemon quickly raised a hand to wipe them away. Despite the tenderness of his touch, the pad of his thumb was rough against the apples of your cheeks. Had he ever been soft? You couldn’t recall a time he wasn’t all rough edges.

“He will have Vhagar,” you murmured as the tips of his fingers skimmed the edge of your lips.

“And I will have Caraxes.”

“Daemon, he is swift and fiery, but Vhagar is-”

“I know,” he interrupted, his hand cupping your face. His thumb rubbed against your cheek and, despite the shadowy loom of a stacked fight, Daemon smiled. “Do you remember our first meeting?”

All thoughts that consumed you were of your last meeting, your parting words a terrible echo in your skull…it will be your funeral. How could he be smiling?

“It was Viserys and Aemma’s wedding,” Daemon pressed on, “and you were waltzing with some hoary goat. Do you remember?”

You stared at Daemon, trying to place his smile and intent. Your funeral. You shook your head as you were unable to think of anything else but Daemon’s doom.

“Old fool kept leaning on you. Too frail maybe, or ripe with lust, I never did know which. All I knew is that I needed y- I needed to intervene,” Daemon cocked his head and leaned towards you. His breath fanned across your face as he asked in a whisper: “Do you remember how?”

The question had you drowning in him as if it were the first time. “You came in like the sea and washed me away into the rest of the waltz. You led,” you sniffled through a bitter smile, “rather poorly, I recall.”

“Yes, well, if you recall, I despise weddings. I never intended on enjoying myself, it jarred me.” Daemon brushed the tips of his fingers through your hair slowly, savoring the feel of those strands of you against his skin. “Though, I do like to think we have been dancing ever since then. Married in our own way, without the garish decor and ghoulish crowd.”

“Daemon-”

“So, if you find it in yourself, I would like to dance a touch longer.” He took a step back and let his hand slip from your face just to let it hang in the air between you. An offering you could not refuse.  

The time for words having passed, you took Daemon’s hand and let him lead you until dawn broke at the edge of the Bay of Crabs. When the first rays of Sun kissed the sand, he let the hand holding yours fall while the other remained wrapped about your waist. He pulled you against him until you were sharing the same air, and you could not imagine a day to come where you did share the world with him.

“I cannot turn from you again,” you whispered, your lips brushing against Daemon’s as you spoke. His hand held you tighter.

“You will not have to,” he replied, before kissing you at last. There was no rush to his kiss, despite the distant cries of a battle-hungry Caraxes. There was only Daemon’s last, perhaps only, bit of softness; saved for you. Lips still locked, he spun you in the sand. 

When you parted and opened your eyes, you saw, past Daemon’s shoulder, the shoreline castle seat of House Cox. Quickly, you refocused on the man before you, wishing you could drown in the pools of his eyes as you had done in the past, in those moments that stretched just long enough. All steps in our dance.

“I’ll go,” Daemon said, his tone gentle but his words an order. “Then, after a while, you will go.”

“What if I do not listen this time?”

Daemon let out a breath of a laugh, one heavy with knowing but sweet enough to make you hope. Perhaps you were the fool. “We both know that you will.” “Just this last time,” you murmured. “After this, you are to listen to me.”

“Of course, issa jorrāelagon,” Daemon leaned up and kissed your forehead. The swelter eased with the act and you felt your stomach twist. He took a step back and smiled. “Of course.”

Then, Daemon Targaryen kept his last promise to you: he turned away. 

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

What are your tought's on the whole : "Rhaenyra and Daemon had an open marriage so he didn't REALLY cheat on her with Mysaria" thing? Because to me it smells like a bullshit excuse to salvage this ship already shaky relationship status

Hi anon! Sorry for being so late in answering this! So, before I get into my answer, just to be clear, I don't have a problem with people headcanoning Daemon and Rhaenyra as having an open relationship, or depicting the relationship this way in fanfic. Fics and headcanons exist for a reason. I assume you're talking about people who use these arguments when discussing the book and/or show canon, or insist this interpretation is the only correct interpretation. In which case, I agree that's mostly an attempt to smooth away the rough edges of those relationships.

First, I think it's important to recognize that the very concept of "open marriage," as we understand it, that is, a mutually consensual agreement to be non-monogamous, with clearly negotiated terms and boundaries, is very modern. I think applying the term "open marriage" to Daemon and Rhaenyra softens what is going on with them a way that is meant to make criticism of the relationship seem socially regressive. I could say similar things about how the relationship between Laenor, Rhaenyra, and Harwin is often characterized by fans as being a completely happy consensual "family of choice" dynamic in which Laenor is usually depicted not as depressed and checked out, as he's shown to be in both the book and the show, but as an eager and involved father who has entered into a sort of surrogate father arrangement with Harwin and Rhaenyra, or the supposed happy "dragonstone polycule" that fans insist existed between Laena/Daemon and Rhaenyra/Harwin/Laenor. It's fine if fans want to imagine happier versions of these relationships-- fans do this all the time, especially in fic or in art, I do it myself-- but do I think that's what's on the page, textually or even subtextually? No.

That said, I don't think Daemon's off and on again relationship with Mysaria was a big issue for Rhaenyra, not because they had an "open relationship," per se, but because Rhaenyra did not perceive Mysaria as a threat to her marriage. Rhaenyra clearly did have a problem with Daemon's relationship with Nettles, for instance, which suggests to me that the relationship was not an open relationship or a polyamorous relationship. Rather, it's more likely that Rhaenyra was like most other Westerosi noblewomen in that she tolerated her husband visiting brothels and prostitutes as this was considered, at the time, a socially acceptable way for a husband to step outside the marriage. While Mysaria was Daemon's long standing paramour, and I think there was likely some sort of emotional attachment there, if Daemon was going to cast aside Rhaenyra in favor of Mysaria he would have done that long ago. Mysaria was not only an aging prostitute, she was a known entity, someone Rhaenyra was aware of before she ever married Daemon. Not only that, but there was clearly some sort of trust (and perhaps more?) between Rhaenyra and Mysaria, as Mysaria was the one who apparently convinced Rhaenyra to send her final letter to Daemon demanding he turn over Nettles. I think it's fair to say that Rhaenyra knew Daemon's tastes and despite her (rather racist) protests that Daemon would never lie with someone like Nettles and that it had to be sorcery, Nettles was a young dragonrider, bold and daring, just the sort of person Daemon has been attracted to in the past.

So I suppose the short answer is no, it's not an open marriage in any meaningful sense. Even in a hypothetical situation in which a couple had a sort of "you do your thing I'll do mine," type agreement, medieval marriage was such an coercive institution as a whole, dynastic royal marriage particularly so, that I don't think there's much utility, in terms of analysis, in viewing it through that lens.

[literaryvein-reblogs]

hey, do you have anything on writing about cults you could share, please?

Writing Notes: Cults

Cult - A religious or quasi-religious group characterized by unusual or atypical beliefs, seclusion from the outside world, and an authoritarian structure.

They tend to be highly cohesive, well organized, secretive, and hostile to nonmembers.

Also: The system of beliefs and rituals specific to a particular religious group.

Cult of Personality - exaggerated devotion to a charismatic political, religious, or other leader, often fomented by authoritarian figures or regimes as a means of maintaining their power. Also called personality cult.

Characteristics of a Cult

Each cult has its own distinctive focus, but almost all of these groups share at least some elements in common, such as:

Authoritarian control: Cultism hinges on encouraging maximum dependency. People in the cult must feel incapable of living an individual life outside the norms of the group. These beliefs often go hand in hand with a worshipful attitude toward the group’s authoritarian leader.

Extremist beliefs: Cult members hold to very dogmatic and extreme beliefs. They also are unable to question these belief systems without fear of reprisal or punishment from the leader or other group members.

Isolation from society: As soon as new members join a cult, other adherents work hard to isolate them from family members and friends. This helps fulfill the mind control aspirations of the leader. It also creates a hive mind of sorts between the new person and the other members.

Veneration of a single individual: Charismatic leaders are often at the center of most cults. Consider the Manson family of the late 1960s. As their name suggests, they adopted the beliefs of their leader, Charles Manson, and fulfilled his requests. The same pattern repeats in almost all other cults, albeit to less violent ends in many cases.

Types of Cults

There are many different types of cults focusing on different end goals or beliefs. Here are just a few general groupings:

Doomsday cults: Certain cults come together to prepare for the allegedly imminent end of the world. For instance, the Branch Davidians stockpiled firearms and explosives in a Waco, Texas, compound over the 1980s and ’90s to prepare for the apocalypse. This led to an infamous standoff with the federal government.

Political cults: Political groups on both the left and right can morph into cults. Janja Lalich wrote an entire account of her own experience in such an environment.

Religious cults: Spiritual beliefs serve as the bedrock for many cults. Some cults are offshoots of mainline religions while others offer brand-new dogmas and theology.

Sex cults: All types of cults might have a component of sexual abuse, but some focus on sex as one of their primary functions. For instance, New York–based NXIVM encouraged rampant sexual behavior between its group members before dissolving.

Examples of Cults

Cults have made headlines over the years due to their outrageous and sometimes tragic behavior. Some notorious cultic groups:

Heaven’s Gate: Inspired by the Book of Revelation, Bonnie Nettles and Marshall Applewhite formed Heaven’s Gate as a doomsday cult with a focus on UFOs. In 1997, all the members died by mass suicide in an effort to ride a comet passing by the Earth.

The Peoples Temple: Jim Jones, a charismatic preacher from the United States, formed the Peoples Temple to spread his own flavor of Christianity before moving to Guyana. There, he founded Jonestown, a compound for his religious group of followers. They died by mass suicide in 1978.

The Unification Church: A new religious movement that began in South Korea, The Unification Church spread to the rest of the world. All adherents follow the teachings of Sun Myung Moon, hence their colloquial nickname (the Moonies).

Why People Join Cults. People join cult movements for various reasons, most of which revolve around a desire for meaning and community. Many who become part of such organizations have troubled backgrounds and difficulty fitting into society. They might also feel mainstream culture has no place for them and nothing of spiritual value to offer either.

Former cult members often describe the long-lasting sense of loneliness and nihilism they felt prior to becoming part of something bigger than themselves.

This encourages them to put down their defenses and accept the stranger elements of their new communities.

Of course, this has sometimes led to horrific and even deadly outcomes in extreme circumstances.

No one joins a cult voluntarily; they are recruited into it.

There is lack of informed consent.

Everyone has vulnerabilities.

Possible situational vulnerabilities include:

illness,

the death of a loved one,

breakup of an important relationship,

loss of a job, or

moving to another city, state or country.

Individual vulnerabilities may include:

high hypnotizability,

strong ability for concentration and vivid imagination,

learning disorders, or 

autism spectrum disorders.

Excessive use of hypnosis, meditation, and other activities can induce an altered state of consciousness. These, in turn, increase susceptibility to being recruited by a cult unless there are strong critical thinking, media literacy and good supportive network, which can help a person stay grounded.

Other risks consist of:

Learning and communication disorders

Drug or alcohol problems

Trauma

Unresolved sexual issues

Phobias (fear of heights, drowning, sharks, aliens, terrorists, crime, etc.)

There are even recent 21st century contributors:

COVID-19/pandemic

Severe economic disruption

Isolation, lack of touch, social distancing

Social/political polarization

Increased time online

Internet addiction

Recruitment into extreme conspiracy theories and cults/scams

"Cult" as a Word

In recent years the word cult has been most commonly used as a pejorative term for a religious group that falls outside the mainstream and, by implication, engages in questionable activities. Many new religions are controversially labeled as cults.

In historiography, there are no negative connotations to the term cult.

It is especially common in works on Classical history, as the ancient Mediterranean world was home to a large variety of mystery cults.

These were small groups whose elite members were initiated into secret rituals for a particular deity.

Far from existing at tension with the society at large, many Roman cults were heavily integrated into the surrounding society.

In Pompeii one of the most lavishly decorated temples was of the cult of Isis.

An inscription records that the individual who paid for the temple’s refurbishment was rewarded with a position as town councilor, indicating a strong interconnection between this mystery cult and the civic order of the city.

Furthermore, one of the most prominent Roman cults was the imperial cult, which was dedicated to the worship of deceased and deified Roman emperors and their deified family members.

Imperial cult worship reinforced the power of the dominant political system, and most or all of pre-Christian Roman society had some degree of membership in it.

Other groups referred to as cults can also reinforce the dominance of a religious and social order.

Within the Roman Catholic Church, the cult of the Virgin Mary and cults of other saints have gained many adherents and a high degree of influence, especially artistically.

Even today, people who intensely worship particular saints are sometimes identified as being members of that saint’s cult.

In more recent decades, groups designated cults have been those at tension with the rest of society.

However, beyond this feature, there is no general consensus about what differentiates a cult from any other religious group.

Some scholars have argued that, by the simplest definition, many, if not all, religious sects originated as cults.

Over time, some cults became culturally accepted and the tension between them and society resolved, leading to the cult being recognized as a sect or church.

Recent examples of this transition from so-called cult to religious group are Seventh-day Adventists and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Other scholars have advanced a more narrow definition of the term cult as a religious group with some or all of the following characteristics:

a charismatic leader who exercises total control;

an apocalyptic vision (doomsday cult);

isolation from society;

an emphasis on a transcendent spiritual experience;

rigid rules governing group members’ behaviour; and

the exploitation of members, including sexually and financially.

In popular use, the term cult has accumulated a strong negative connotation and is often used to cast aspersions on a religious group’s validity as a form of religious practice.

From the 1960s onward, a number of new cults developed in the United States and attracted large numbers of worshippers.

The actions of these cultists, who sometimes isolated themselves from their families and oriented their lives fully around the cult, triggered widespread alarm.

So, too, did the actions of violent cults such as the Peoples Temple, headed by Jim Jones, and the Manson Family, which was led by Charles Manson.

The anti-cult movement reached its peak in the 1970s, when the idea emerged that cult members were being “brainwashed,” having their free will systematically taken away.

The trial of Patty Hearst—an heiress kidnapped by leftist radicals in 1974 and allegedly brainwashed into committing crimes—played a key role in the growth of this belief.

According to the brainwashing theory, cult members are not choosing an alternative way of life but are instead victims of exploitative and dangerous fanatics.

This justified the rise of forcible deprogramming, which involves the kidnapping and holding of cult members until the deprogrammer judges that they are no longer in the thrall of the cult.

Many deprogrammed former cult members went on to launch challenges in court.

Some sued the cults that they had been members of, accusing them of brainwashing. A few psychologists and psychiatrists testified in support of the deprogrammed cultists at those trials.

However, other former cult members sued their deprogrammers, claiming to have been kidnapped and abusively coerced into giving up their “brainwashing.”

With brainwashing accusations at the heart of these cases, a variety of medical researchers as well as such organizations as the American Psychological Association researched cults and cult members during the 1980s and ’90s. Their conclusion was that accusations of brainwashing and coercive persuasion against cults lacked a factual basis.

Studies which suggested proof of brainwashing were methodologically flawed or based on insufficient data.

After a cult member won a lawsuit against his deprogrammer (Jason Scott v. Rick Ross) in 1995, the practice of forcible deprogramming was largely discontinued.

Academic research has revealed a more fluid and varied reality than the one advanced by the anti-cult movement.

In fact, many people who join a cult choose to leave it.

Other members of cults do not become entirely isolated from society, maintaining jobs and relationships outside the cult.

In addition, some studies have suggested that those who leave a cult and experience psychological damage are more likely to have left involuntarily.

A wide range of religious groups fall under the definition of cult, and the vast majority are benign or even have a positive impact on society.

Given the continued negative associations with the term cult, many sociologists and researchers now prefer to use the term new religious movement (NRM).

It is used to describe groups previously called cults.

This term is meant to dissociate NRMs from the connotation that their forms of religious expression lack legitimacy, an idea which is now perhaps permanently ingrained in the term cult.

Lasting Effects of Cults. Prolonged and intense coercive persuasion can cause identity disturbance. Commonly, there are many additional after-effects:

Extreme identity confusion

Panic and anxiety attacks

Depression

Psychosomatic symptoms (headaches, backaches, asthma, skin problems)

Anger, guilt and shame

Decision-making dependency

Fear and phobias

Sleep disorders/nightmares

Eating disorders

Fear of intimacy and commitment

Distrust of self and others

Grieving loss of friends and family

Delusions and paranoia

Loss of life meaning or purpose

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

In an era when cult mind control is ever present and growing, it is essential to better understand the basics of cults, in order to combat their influence.

The first goal in educating yourself is prevention, for yourself and others. But, if you have been affected, recovery is possible.

And if your friends or family are involved in a destructive group, you can help rescue them from harm.

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