#my solution has been to think of Falin

[flowersfallingdown]

Being able to lay on Falin again would help me sleep.

- Thistle

[silverwarewolf]

DUNGEON MESHI EPISODE 24 THOUGHTS

Oh, I had asked to see what the party's thoughts regarding the changeling situation were, especially when it came to their lifespans, but I didn't think it would turn out like this!

GOOD FUCKING JOB, CHILCHUCK. YOU'VE TRAUMATIZED MARCILLE EVEN FURTHER. Oh but I do so love the horrors of this situation of theirs. Marcille babygirl I would like to hug you and have a nice chat.

Anywya, on we go to think about Falin and any solutions that might help us here. Which is great! I love how much foreshadowing there is (in terms of what I've been vaguely told about the manga).

Laios Touden's problem solving skills, everyone.

That's honestly the SICKEST weapon design, I'm so on board with you Laios. This could be Kensuke's Halloween makeover. BUT DONT JUST TAKE THOSE MUSHROOMS WITH YOU OH MY GOD

... was this the opening sequence foreshadowing everyone was freaking out about? was that it? (don't actually tell me, though. if it was it, say yes. if it wasn't, don't say anything)

no comment here I just love them.

I just will never get used to elfshi's hands being Like That. But it's also kinda nice to see him and Izutsumi working along so nicely! Like, don't even get me started on how Izu is presented as the pickiest eater of the party (Marcille has been dethroned severely) and usually you'd see that presented as a Hassle, but here in DM, Senshi doesn't even bat an eye. He knows and respects Izutsumi's tastes and preferences and works his meals out around it! That's such a based thing for him to do. <3

This is a renaissance painting. (I love it when they adapt Ryoko Kui's visual gags and I LOVE when she does zoomed in faces like this. Truly one of the artists ever)

I did not have "Laios gets Pissed On" on my bingo card but every day I grow more and more convinced that the animators KNOW what they're doing and - OH MY GOD IS THAT SENSHI'S DWUSSY. ELFSHI ALTERNATIVE TO PANTY SHOT.

Ah, yes, Izutsumi sprawls all over them when sleeping, we been knew, again it's a little unexpected to see it front and center but I guess it works to demonstrate them returning to - THAT WAS LAIOS??? AND CHILCHUCK IS JUST LIFTING HIS LEG LIKE THAT?? OKAY THEN. SURE.

(and then there's a few more seconds of laiosfoot and laios bedhead)

BUT HEY THEY'RE BACK TO NORMAL

1) Yep, they're back to normal.

2) Laios I love you and I love Gothsuke but someone needs to be careful about biohazards and it's not going to be you.

3) Add this to the "Marcille Donato gets threateningly close to you in three steps" folder.

4) Truly only they can match each other's freak. When the NECROMANCER is telling you not to do something, don't do it! I know last time you smuggled a "normal" sword, it turned out to be useful, but I'm sure that's not the case here!

5) Poor Laios tho. I'll learn to blacksmith just to give you a cool sword. <3

I'm so glad they kept this. One of the silliest touden siblings moments. 10/10 no notes. Also, Falin is never beating the blunt force trauma allegations.

IS THAT CHILCHUCK'S WIFE. ARE YOU - MA'AM. HELLO?

"Why aren't you a twink like I thought you'd be?!" gets adapted! (I'm pretty sure that's the scene meant to be here, anyways)

I get it, girl.

Oh dear, they're going to eat Falin. And SENSHI was the one to suggest it! For a guy who was just fighting the doubts of accidental cannibalism a week ago, you're taking bold steps forward.

(I do love how it mirrors Laios' kindness back then, in truth. Even if it's an idea so shocking and dire at first, it comes from a place of reason and logic and love)

Marcille "I said I wanted to eat her OUT, not eat HER" Donato Izutsumi "That's going to taste gross as fuck" Izutsumi Chilchuck "If it brings her back..." Tims Laios Touden, the man with a thousand things on his head right now, two of which I reckon are "I don't want to eat my sister" and "Dragon-Chicken... what might it taste like?"

Yes, well. Valid as your concerns are, Laios, because how the fuck would five people eat THAT much meat, you can't just ramble on about what dishes you're going to make out of your sister.

(...I get it, though. I mean if you're going to eat, might as well make it good, right? I know no one wants to grill one of Faligon's ribs but I'll go ahead and say it would be worse to tell them to eat her raw)

FUCK! we DID lose those scenes about the twin bell that toshiro kept!! forever sad about that.

oh my godddd they're going back into the dungeonnn we're going to reunite with themmm

I know they're really fucking competent, I mean, Namari and Toshiro are already described as pretty formidable warriors (and we've seen it), and Kabru is... admittedly much more geared to fight humans but he's a decent fighter either way. And a good leader!

Speaking of, where the fuck is everyone else.

I know they're meant to be scary (and I suppose they are! If we have the reference that, firstly, marcille is an excellent spellcaster so these elves could be just as good in their own areas of expertise, yes?, and secondly, the canaries are Well Known)

... plus, Namari, Toshiro and Kabru are wary of them. Namari, Toshiro and Kabru are wary of them.

BUT damn it Lycion, I need to- (gets dragged off stage)

Anyway, while we wait for the next season (WHICH HAS BEEN GREENLIT! WOHOO!), have these wonderful images of chicken falin being a cathedral painting (...if cathedrals ever added dragons, i guess) and my beloveds, who have finally returned!

[unkat]

For the ask meme: 🧠 Pick a character, and I'll tell you my favorite headcanon for them.

Love your Chilaios fics!

-sanityhasforsakenme

!!! Hi hi! I'm glad you like them, i really enjoy writing them and being a part of the fandom! :D

On the grounds of chilaios, i can do some for chil and laios:

Chilchuck

He has become so accustomed to being on edge while working in the dungeon, that he dreams about scenarios in his sleep, even when safely in his own bed on the surface. He is a worrier, and his worries follow him especially when there isn't anything else to keep him occupied. Taking too much responsibility for his party is both his love language and a sign of his learned distrust for others. Anime spoilers about Chil's life: It gets worse when his girls grow up and he doesn't have being a father to distract him. Immersing himself in his guild work is so involved with his dungeon delving that he gets even more lost in it, the distrust seeping from work to home until he doesn't even realize he has begun to drown in it.

Laios

While he is more careful not to share his special interests as much at first, having a small, consistent group of people who have not abandoned him even when he says something that is a social faux pas has improved his self-esteem. I feel like this gets even clearer when the canon events happen because it is the first time he has been with a group without Falin to carry the weight of smoothing social situations over for him. This really makes him more comfortable sharing his lore, and he ends up writing his own book(s) about the monsters from the dungeon, like a revised edition of the Gourmet Guide and then going more in-depth with it. He does all the art himself too.

Chilaios

What initially interested me in the ship was the open communication they had with each other, and their similar tactical mindsets focused on the dungeon itself. I feel as though they have a strong trust in each other, as strong as Chilchuck more obviously, Laios less obviously, CAN trust anyone. Regardless of the shipping potential, there is a strong love and loyalty between those two, carefully buried through Laios' social struggles and Chilchuck's preference to be perceived as socially aloof. ALL THAT SAID, headcanon is that when Chilchuck is feeling more social with Laios, he brings up different scenarios for Laios to visualize and parse through, both tactical and social ones. I think that Chilchuck is used to self-reflection and preparation by imagining hypotheticals, and it is an activity he can do with Laios that they both benefit and bond from. Additionally, Laios being able to map out solutions sometimes cuts through what Chilchuck gets spun up about, getting Chil out of his own head. Their passions both lie with their work, and they learn a lot from each other through this kind of analysis and planning. Shipping-brained, they both are touch-starved and unaware of how desperate they are for a deeper connection with each other, emotions totally blindsiding them when they realize the depths of their feelings. Two pretty logical guys having huge emotions who don't comprehend what they share and how it should look. They find the physical aspects easier than the emotional ones, and settle into a friends-with-benefits relationship before a romantic one.

Ty for your message! Ask Game from here.

[malewifesband]

trying to go back and actually write this scene w kabru and rin. my stupid illness is worse again so im struggling but id like thoughts if anyone has them. on like any aspect

to establish: i feel like kabru takes rin for granted like by far the person he seems to treat worst is her. hes not a terrible person for this no way but like the way he teases her about liking him despite having no feelings for her ... idk i feel like he counts on rin always being there. like nothing could push her away so he feels he can be a bit cruel and hell be forgiven--not like she doesnt rag on him all time, right?

but i think things change when he falls in love. like it finally hits rin that man, its never going to be her. shes watched him date around for years, and never truly fall for someone, so there was always that hope that one day hed just realize how he really felt about her. and now she cant delude herself thats true, she can just fuckin tell how bad he has it for laios after spending two years living between the castle and her apothecary. she starts trying to breakaway from him, because every time she talks to him theres a reminder that he loves someone who isnt her.

feeling especially pathetic one night, she sees marcille, who is also feeling especially pathetic bc falin is still over a year away from her and enjoying their open relationship, but marcille doesnt. she cant bring herself to want anyone but falin. rins like ok bet. we are the same kind of pathetic and i dont like you but youve also been nothing but nice to me and im not reconciling these feelings. lets have sex

the scene im struggling with comes after

like rin is in the garden again, hoping that marcille will come. she didnt feel lonely when she was with marcille. she felt... special. more seen. she didnt think about how she misses kabru even when hes with her.

but ofc kabru is seeking her out bc he just really fucked up with laios.

she tells him, yeah man, super your fault for pressing the bruise after fuckin kissing him and then refusing to talk about it. everybody knows the dude does not want to get married and have heirs why did u like agree with his dads letter that he has a duty to sire children

she really doesnt want to talk to him about this. she wants him to need her like she needs him--she doesnt want to need him like she does. and she doesnt want to help him fall in love with someone else, but its like he doesnt even realize whats happening.

kabru insists the kiss was nothing, and he shouldnt talk about it with laios bc he was just drunk its just... he wants laios' full trust. and its weird, but sometimes he pictures laios as girl and something about that works. but its a weird wishful thinking bc kabru wants to get thru this barrier they have where (kabru feels) laios feels like he cant trust him bc kabru is good liar and laios cant read ppl. like maybe if they shared something that intimate, them both being trans, theyd understand each other completely

rin doesnt really know what to make of any of that. it feels like further rejection. like it just feels obvious to her that no matter what, he loves laios. and that thorny feeling of jealousy is spiraling around her heart. maybe she says something cruel, gives terrible advice bc she feels so hurt that he cant see how sincere her jealousy is, that he cant see how it hurts her to hear him in love with someone else?

im not super sure where to take the scene from there. i know i want it to end with kabru feeling worse about laios and deciding to avoid him, but without him realizing that rin is purposefully pulling away yet. (he'll realize that later, when laios is the one to tell him she and marcille and seeing each other and he didnt even know. and he'll have to address then that hes taken her friendship for granted)

any thoughts on the kinds of things she might say? or might tell him? i feel like theres an obvious solution im just missing

[roydeezed]

Dungeon Meshi Thoughts 04

It took a lot of will power because I wanted to come here and write things multiple times but I finally reached and finished Chapter 50. Which is what I wanted to do before writing another one of these. Somebody said on my last post that they couldn’t imagine stopping every once in a while to write down my thoughts and I have to say it’s really hard not to binge the whole thing. That’s usually how I consume most manga and comic books but trying it out this way has been pretty fulfilling. I also get a vicarious joy everytime I follow along with a friend's journey with One Piece so I thought this might provide similar entertainment to Dungeon Meshi fans. Especially the wrong guesses! So this round of thoughts is covering chapters 37-50. So, for my fiftieth post I’ll talk about Dungeon Meshi up till Chapter 50. I’ll go into more in-depth past the “Keep reading” so check it out!

Wow! Everytime I think I know what’s going to happen I’m pleasantly surprised by how nuanced the actual events are. This whole ideological conflict between Shuro and Laios doesn’t devolve to a full on conflict, not if you don’t count their little catfight, but instead ends with a third option I hadn’t even considered, with Shuro planning on leaving the island. That’s such a great out to not having to resort to fighting someone or stooping to, as Shuro sees it, their level. And of course the narrative still keeps Shuro in the narrative through actual plot developments even after he makes up his mind but I’m getting ahead of myself. First of all, reading back on my past thoughts, I am so happy I predicted some of these things right! Like most of the case with the mad sorcerer. Thank you One Piece community for your insane-ass theories and break weeks. But that really speaks to how well this manga is laid out. A lot of the mistakes I made were in assuming this manga’s tone and not respecting that it could have such a nuanced plot and characters. 

Let’s get going on a chronological recap/breakdown before I get distracted and lose my mind over how much I love Kabru. The answer is a lot and that will come at the end. Leaving off in Chapter 36, Laios had just told Shuro that they’d used dark magic to resurrect her, causing him to fly off the handle and point his blade at Laios. Kabru, being the little bastard(affectionate) that he is, highlights to Shuro that he would’ve done the exact same thing by exaggerating his side of things while at the same time showing Laios how serious his actions were. At the time I was reading this I wasn’t sure if Kabru had somehow luckily stumbled upon the right answer but now knowing him better, this shows his skill in social situations. This is the first major instance of him finding a third option and laying the groundwork for a peaceful solution and for everyone to also find their third option. I kind of see Kabru as synonymous with the number three. Third option and third prominent party leader after Laios and Shoru. I feel like it will be an important part of his character.

After that tense exchange Chilchuck comes in to warn them about the impending attack and learns about Laios telling Shoru and loses it. I sympathize with Chilchuck so much. In a party of complete weirdos(again affectionate) he’s the only one with a level head. We’ve also only had Laios interacting with his fellow party members who understand him and put up with him so it wasn’t until he talked with Shoru, a person who actively despised him, that it was apparent how bad he is at social interactions and reading people. He is so much purer than I thought. He really is a monster loving freak. Bless his precious heart.

He sees Falin’s new form and the first thing he thinks is how cool she is. He really does have his priorities straight. I can’t blame him though, she really does look super cool. 

There’s also a great moment where Chilchuck makes Shoru and Laios command people. It’s such a great peek into the realism that’s pumped into this series as deciding on how commands are issued would be a vital part of dungeon fighting as you wouldn’t want conflicting orders. Here we also get Inutade trying to follow Shoru’s batshit insane order of holding down a griffon creature 5 times bigger than her without hurting it.  I love Inutade in all the small glimpses of her we get. She’s simply adorable and I hope we get more of her. But this moment also contributes to Shoru’s decision to leave as his conflict of interest gets so many people hurt and killed.

I love how the author uses the battle to show off strong character moments such as Kabru’s no-nonsense policy towards monsters and his skill at killing humanoids or Chilchuck saving the younger halfling.

Laios accepts the fact that though he loves monsters and he loves his sister, they still are monsters.

But before he goes in for the kill, Falin shows a sign of sentience that prompts him to remember a third option just as he saves Kabru. As the sorcerer came the last time they killed the dragon there’s a chance that he would come again so they have to drive her back. But I feel like there’s going to come a moment of reckoning for Laios. Where he’ll have to firmly put a stake in the ground between monsters and not, and because this story might just do it, I worry that it will be with his sister. 

They drive Falin away and revive everyone and Shoru comes to the decision that he’s gonna tell on them like a tattle tale. A snitch. A narc. We don’t like those here. Not with my boi Chilchuck around. But they also come to the conclusion that Falin’s soul was mixed in with the dragon's, making her a hybrid. And this is where Laios’s resolve to defeat the mad sorcerer becomes solidified. He’s been eating three meals a day, of course he’s serious now… fucking dork. I love my socially unaware boy. 

I feel so bad though. Because he believed so earnestly that Shoru was his first real friend.

And that’s why his friendship with Senshi feels so real, because even though they don’t dive deep into Senshi’s backstory until a little bit later they still have an inherent understanding of each other. 

I get it though Shoru, it makes sense. 

The detail of Soru proposing to Falin without dating or expressing his feelings was also a nice touch as it showed the disconnect between cultures, especially with Chilchuck educating the younger halfling on it. It’s little things like this that build out the world so organically. Kabru evaluates Laios and finds that he could probably defeat the mad sorcerer but wonders if he’d be able to make the hard decision to seal away the dungeon. And I think he would if he had to. We’ve seen time and time again, that when presented with a solid argument, Laios, as a leader, seriously considers it and even acts on it, like trying to go back to the surface or killing Monster Falin, only being stopped by new information and outside factors.

We get a small glimpse of Kabru’s backstory and he eats monster to earn Laios’s trust. (MUST RESIST TALKING ABOUT KABRU UNTIL WE GET TO HIS PART). The party continues to lower floors and Laios casually lore drops and it makes me wonder what the chances are they can actually talk to the sorcerer. I’ll save that discussion for when they get pulled in by the citizens. But for now, we get a small little mystery where the characters get doppelgangers based on each other’s perception of them that Laios not only helps solve but he also resolves by once again being a dork. I can never say enough how much I love him. The  dopplegangers tell us a lot of fun things about each person’s perception but the thing I want to focus on is that Laios definitely sees Senshi as superhot. That’s all my peabrain can fixate on from this sequence. 

We also meet our newest party member not soon after! I love Izutsumi. Honestly, I love all of the party members. They all feel essential and after they introduced or a new dynamic or piece of information is unveiled it leaves me wondering how I was getting along fine without it. But Izutsumi’s messiness paired with her being a picky eater is such a fun and adorable combo. And while each member sparked off of each other and came in conflict with each other Senshi always felt like an outsider. I thought it was because he wasn’t an original part of the group but it was really because no one would directly challenge him, usually only going through Laios. With Izutsumi joining we get these moments that make them both feel like they’re a part of the team as they clash but also have wholesome and adorable moments together.

With increasing frequency I see Laios’s desire and willingness to turn animalistic and monstrous and I wonder if that payoff is that he himself turns into a monster or takes Falin’s place? Or is he only able to appreciate the difference between him and monsters because he’s a human. 

I also appreciate this added depth we get into Marcille, that she’s afraid of seeing the ones she loves passing on before her. And I wonder if at the end of the dungeon she might not be the most dangerous one? We already saw she was willing to break rules to keep the ones she loves around, but with the sorcerer knowing about immortality it could tempt her. Even her wishing for his grimoire could be foreshadowing. It would be consistent with Marcille’s character arc and in the end might not even be a bad thing in context as this manga often has a habit of flipping the context on its head.

Izutsumi becoming a part of the squad not only helped Senshi feel more cohesive but her combative nature also makes things more dynamic with every other member, including fighting with Chilchuck and Marcille and making up after the fact and in the process showing off all of their best qualities. Marseille’s explanation on why she’s capitulated to a lot of Laios’s weirder whims helps me understand her a lot better as well, as she sees denying opportunities as veering further from her goal, flipping the context from it being a loss of her beliefs into a strengthening of her conviction. 

OKOKOK Kabru time! Through the guise of elven negotiations we learn a lot about Kabru. One of the main things that always stood out to me about him was that despite his age and apparent lack of skill fighting monsters, he was always shrewd. And seeing how the Elves storm in like magical FBI and take over dungeons without telling anyone what happens and the fact that he was raised by them, not only makes me believe that elves behave in a much more machiavellian way but that he learnt it all from them. It’s nurture not nature and his whole motivation is quite noble. He’s such an interesting character because he can go in so many directions now. He’s helping the progress of our party and could one day be a valuable advisor to Laios, someone who respects that, but could also just as equally succumb to the power and manipulate Laios. I don’t think he will now that I’ve seen his motivation but each scene with him is so interesting. He’s got the most bird’s eye view overview of the situation and I love how he collects his information. It scratches that very specific itch of characters that are like Light from Death Note but not complete d-bags, like Shiroe from Log Horizon. And so much of how Kabru has interacted with the world makes sense now. I can’t wait to see him outmaneuver the elves because they might actually be a match for him, being equally manipulative.

Okay, I don’t know about yall but this visit into the village stuck in time seemed way off to me. A little too grimm’s fairy tales like if you know what I mean. So we know the jist already. Thistle, the mad sorcerer, was hired as a jester by Derghal’s dad. Raised alongside Derghal, he got them industry connects to become a magician and learnt magic, became mad and cast an immortality curse on the country. But being asked what drove him mad, Yaado, Derghal’s grandson says he doesn’t know. Feels a bit too clean to me. For a thousand years how can they be content not knowing. I feel like they know but are too ashamed to admit it because they drove him to madness. Then again, is it even madness? It’s love for Derghal for sure, but there could be more too. Why’s he only looking for Derghal after six years? Of course it could be that six years barely counts as time passed to Thistle but the clues feel too significant to ignore. Anyways, I wanted to bring it up before I continued, even though I don’t have a proper answer to what they could’ve done. 

Next, we get another thing I’ve waited for, Senshi’s backstory! And some more information on Chilchuck. Before we dive into Senshi’s past I want to talk about Chilchuck. Since Senshi was basically a baby when he went into the dungeon, does that make Chilchuck comparatively the oldest as not only did the other halfling call him an elder at 29 years of age, but he also has a wife and child! That he can’t see for some reason. I can’t wait to see his tragic backstory. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that he’s always seemed the most guarded. It seemed like a really big leap of faith for Chilchuck to share about himself like that. 

But then we learn about Senshi. He came into the dungeon when he was a kid and lost his whole party and believed he had eaten them because of the way things played out. It’s also why he avoided forming attachments. Laios eventually helps him figure out that he did not in fact canniablize his fellow dwarves and they walk away happily before becoming changed. But with this, the character who facilitated this entire premise, of cooking monsters you kill in a dungeon, also become the character we know the most about, knowing most of his motivations and reasons over the last ten years. It’s a really confident move and I’m curious to see how it affects the dynamics going forwards because it’s such a 180 from the past 48 chapter as we knew next to nothing about Senshi until now. One thing I do wonder is that if Senshi's desire to not have eaten his companions was so strong, could it have manilpualted the meat to make it seem like he did eat hippogriffs before? Because this time th meat was only transformed after being cut so the mushrooms could have changed it to dwarf meat to go along with Senshi's desires. It's probably not that dark but I couldn't help theorizing. With them having been changed by the mushrooms we’ve caught up with chapter 50 and I’ll leave it here as it’s getting quite long. See ya’ll next time!

[cenvast]

@dokibaesil ty as always for your comments! screenshotted tags and my response under the cut lolll

You open a very fascinating discussion on accounting for cultural context when analyzing characters' motives and behaviors! My goal with this post was to address some of the discourse surrounding Toshiro and critique his character without resorting to racist generalizations. As you and others have said, critique against him sometimes devolves into racially-charged rhetoric.

As you've implied, it's important to acknowledge that in real life, people of color, especially people from collectivist cultures like Toshiro, often have a harder time extricating themselves from their families when they want to — or do — go against societal conventions than white people do. Within this lens, despite Laios and Toshiro both being from families with political power and disapproving of how that power is wielded, one can assume that Laios, as a white man who's presumably from an individualistic culture, would find it easier to leave his village than Toshiro, who's from a collectivist culture.

But I would actually suggest that Laios' village is also more collectivist. It's difficult for a medieval farming village to not be collectivist; a villager has to work for the good of the whole, or everyone starves. Also, the villagers reject difference and enforce conformity as seen through their treatment of Falin. Valuing conformity is a common trend within collectivist societies. Both Laios and Toshiro seem to have had collectivist upbringings, so leaving would've been hard for them both in this sense.

Interestingly, Laios' father seems to have less authority over his village than Toshiro's father has over his clan. While Toshiro's father does many things that upset his retainers without suffering any consequences, Laios' father complies with the village's climate; he kicks out his own daughter when the villagers turn against her. He seems more beholden to the village's wishes in a way that Toshiro's father is not to his clan. Because of this, Toshiro probably also has more power in his clan as his father's heir than Laios had in his village as his father's heir. Toshiro probably has more ability to change things than Laios did.

The main barrier Toshiro seems to face with leaving is the hierarchical nature of his household. Obedience is heavily emphasized, and running away wouldn't be very compliant of him. His personality is more passive than Laios' as well, and like you said, it's hard to leave everything you've ever known and leap into the unknown. But when the choice is between being a slave owner and leaving your household (he can also stay and change things, so it's not like these are his only choices), being from a collectivist culture or a strict household cannot excuse perpetuating slavery. Of course, it'd be hard for him to leave or disrupt the status quo, but not nearly as hard as it is for Izutsumi and Inutade to be enslaved by his family.

I don't think the solution is necessarily Toshiro leaving his household and/or staying in Melini. Ideally, he would go back to Wa and use his privilege to dismantle the imbalanced power structures of his household as you mentioned that some fans have headcanoned.

As much as I'd like for that to happen, I personally believe Toshiro acknowledging his participation in his household's system of injustice and working to dismantle it is a bit unrealistic at the story's close. I do believe Toshiro, like anyone else, has the ability to change. But at the narrative's end, he still has not experienced an extreme enough event that would force him to confront the class hierarchies he upholds and dismantle them.

If he wanted to dismantle his household's hierarchies, he would essentially have to tear down his entire society's social organization by ceding his power as a nobleman and placing all his servants and slaves on an equal footing with him. It would be the societal equivalent of causing an earthquake. If Toshiro, the notoriously most avoidant character of the series, were to do this, he would have to experience something extremely drastic. No situation he encountered on the Island seems to have explicitly increased his empathy for demi-humans and/or lower class people. Yes, he experienced racism on the Island, but we don't gain any indication that he's drawn parallels between Laios' microaggressions towards him and his family's exploitation of his retainers' labor and dehumanization of demi-humans. Beyond the shared experience of being marginalized, these are also just fairly unrelated.

Toshiro's growth in the series feels more personal to me. He learns to express himself better, but learning to be more expressive doesn't necessarily correlate to gaining political awareness regarding other marginalized people's experiences.

Returning to Izutsumi, I love that her storyline is about constantly trying reclaim her agency and personhood from the Nakamoto clan and then ultimately escaping from them. Notably, she is a slave, and she's heavily racialized in the narrative. She's perceived as sub-human because she's a beastman. For instance, Toshitsugu introduces her to Maizuru as a "kitten," not a girl. As a slave, she's held against her will. It's not that she doesn't want to leave or doesn't have the motivation to stay away, but that she physically cannot leave because of, like you said, the hag curse. While she obviously grows as a character throughout the story, she has always wanted to escape her enslavement. I see her character arc as not being about learning to leave but about learning to depend on others.

Unlike Izutsumi, Toshiro isn't really motivated to leave his clan. He's in nearly the most privileged position in his household while she's in the lowest possible position. Despite how his clan has emotionally traumatized him, he still materially benefits from staying and inheriting the clan leadership. In contrast, if Izutsumi stayed, she would just continue to be exploited and dehumanized. So while Toshiro and Izutsumi come from the same household, a racialized slave girl and her nobleman master don't have equivalent amounts of agency in leaving the household.

"Toshiro Is Sexist," "Toshiro Owns Slaves": What's Really Going on With This Guy?

I've seen a lot of debate on whether or not Toshiro is problematic because he's a slave owner or because he's sexist in the context of his crush on Falin. While I do want to examine his relationship to Falin, I'd like to take a few steps back and unpack his upbringing first. We'll dive into the gender and class dynamics he was raised with and how it impacts his behavior in the main storyline.

Like all people, Toshiro is shaped by the environment he grew up in. Toshitsugu, Toshiro's father and the head of the Nakamoto clan, is the most impactful model of authority and manhood in his life. Toshiro does recognize some of his father's flaws and tries to avoid replicating them. But whether or not he emulates or subverts his father's behavior, Toshitsugu is often the starting point for Toshiro's treatment of others, particularly marginalized people.

The Nakamoto clan exists under a patriarchal hierarchy with Toshitsugu at the top. As noted by @fumifooms in their Nakamoto household post, his wife has more authority than Maizuru. She's able to ban Maizuru from parts of their residence, but despite disliking his infidelity, she can't divorce him or stop him from cheating on her. Their marriage is not an equal partnership.

On an interpersonal level, Toshitsugu and Maizuru also have a fraught relationship. While she does seem to care for him, she's often frustrated by his thoughtless behavior.

For example, he drunkenly buys Izutsumi for her — without considering how she'll have to raise this child — and invades her room in the middle of the night. When he cryptically says, "It's all my fault," she replies, "I can think of a lot of things that are your fault." She calls him an "idiot" and "believes that [Toshiro] will grow up to be a better clan leader than his father," implying that she takes issue with Toshitsugu's leadership.

Because Maizuru and Toshitsugu are described as being "in an intimate relationship" and "seem[ing] to be lovers," Maizuru appears to be a consensual participant. Still, this doesn't negate the large power imbalance between them as a male noble clan leader and his female retainer. This imbalance introduces an insidious undertone to Maizuru's frustration with Toshitsugu. Like Toshiro's mother, Maizuru doesn't have the agency to do as she pleases in their relationship; he has the ultimate authority. For instance, she doesn't seem to want to raise Izutsumi, but she has to anyway.

While Maizuru's role as Toshitsugu's mistress is significant, she's also the Nakamoto clan's teacher and Toshiro's primary maternal figure. She cares deeply for Toshiro: tailing him, feeding him, and taking responsibility even for his actions as an adult. While it might seem sweet that she cares for him like a son at first, Maizuru was notably fifteen years old at the time of his birth. In the extra comic below, he's six years old and has already been in her care for some time. Even if we're being generous and assuming that she didn't start raising him until he was six, she was still only twenty-one at the time she was parenting her boss/lover's child with another woman.

Maizuru's roles as mistress and maternal figure, in addition to her role as retainer, demonstrate the intersection between gendered and class oppression in the Nakamoto household. Despite her original role being a retainer trained in espionage, Toshitsugu presses her into performing gendered labor for him and eventually, Toshiro. She's expected to be Toshitsugu's lover, perform emotional labor for him as his confidant, care for his child, and carry out domestic tasks like cooking. She says, "Even during missions, I was often dragged into the kitchen." If she was a male servant, I doubt she would have been expected to perform these additional tasks. She can't avoid these tasks either, stating that her "own feelings don't factor into it."

Toshitsugu disregards his wife's and Maizuru's desires and emotions to serve his own interests. Because he has societal power over them as a nobleman and in Maizuru's case, her master, neither woman can escape their position in the household hierarchy.

As a result, Toshiro grew up within a structure where men and male nobility, in particular, wield the most societal power. The hierarchical nature of his household and society discourages everyone, including him as a clan leader's eldest son, from questioning and disrupting the existing hierarchy.

The other Nakamoto household members also internalize its sexist, classist power dynamics.

For example, Hien expects that she and Toshiro will replicate the uneven dynamics of the previous generation, regardless of her personal feelings. She sees her and Toshiro's relationship as paralleling Maizuru and Toshitsugu's relationship; she is the closest woman to Toshiro and his retainer, so she's shocked when Toshiro doesn't attempt to begin an intimate relationship with her. Notably, she doesn't have actual feelings for him. Her expectations are centered around the household's precedent of placing emotional, sexual, domestic, and child-rearing labor onto the female servants without any regard for their personal desires.

Hien also probably knows that her position in the household will improve if she is Toshiro's lover because she's seen it improve Maizuru's position. However, the fact that being the future clan leader's lover is the closest proximity she, as a female servant, has to power further reveals the gendered, class-based oppression she and the other women live under.

It's important to note that the Nakamoto clan bought Benichidori, Izutsumi, and Inutade as slaves, so they have less power and agency than Maizuru and Hien. The clan further dehumanizes Izutsumi and Inutade as demi-humans; their enslavement contains an additional layer of racialization.

Toshiro isn't oblivious to the gendered, class, and racial power dynamics of his household. He tries to distance himself from participating in its exploitative power structure. He walls himself off from Hien, who he's known since childhood, to avoid replicating his father's behavior and making his servant into his lover. He disapproves of his father's enslavement of Izutsumi and Inutade, and he lets Izutsumi go when she runs away in the Dungeon.

But does any of this absolve him of his complicity in his household's sexist, classist power dynamics and racialized slavery?

The short answer is absolutely not.

Despite his distaste for his father's exploitation of his servants and slaves, Toshiro still uses them. He refers to his party as "his retainers," and he has them fight and perform domestic tasks for him. You could argue that Toshiro doesn't like to and thus, doesn't regularly use his servants and slaves. In the context of him asking his retainers to help him rescue Falin, Maizuru says, "The only time he ever made any sort of personal request was for this task." But it shouldn't matter whether exploitation is a regular occurrence or not for it to be considered harmful. Toshiro asking Maizuru to cook him a meal still constitutes asking his female servant to perform gendered labor for him. He's also very accustomed to her grooming and dressing him.

Maizuru sees feeding, washing, and even advising Toshiro romantically as fulfilling Toshitsugu's orders to care for his son. They aren't fulfilling a "personal request." But just because her labor has been deemed expected and thereby devalued doesn't mean that it isn't labor or that she isn't performing it.

Maizuru's dynamic with Toshiro is also complicated by her role as his maternal figure. She loves him and wants to take care of him, and she doesn't have a choice in the matter. During Toshiro's childhood, the onus was on Toshitsugu to cease exploiting his lover and release her from servitude, but Toshiro is now an adult man. Seeing as how Maizuru defers to his wishes and calls him "Young Master," they still have a power imbalance that he's passively maintaining. Ideally, he would not ask anything of her until he has the authority to release her from servitude.

Throughout the story, Toshiro acts as if he has no agency and quietly disapproving of his father's actions absolves him of his participation in maintaining oppressive dynamics. While his father still ranks higher than him, he's essentially his father's heir. He has much more power than Maizuru, the highest-ranked servant. At the very least, he could leave his slave-owning household.

Unfortunately, his refusal to confront injustice is consistent with his character's major flaw: he does not express his opinions, desires, or needs. While this character trait obviously hurts his friendships, it also furthers his complicity in the injustices his household runs on.

Toshiro's relationship with eating food — the prevailing metaphor of the series — also parallels his relationship with confronting injustice. Maizuru mentions that he was a sickly child, so the act of eating may have been physically uncomfortable for him. As an adult, his refusal to eat crops up during his rescue attempt of Falin. Denying himself food might have been punishment for not accomplishing important tasks like rescuing Falin and/or a way to maintain control over something in his life when he felt like he'd lost control over the rest of it, again in the context of losing Falin. (Note: I suggest reading this post on Toshiro's disordered eating by @malaierba.)

But he cannot and does not avoid consuming food forever.

Similarly, Toshiro keeps his distance from his retainers and tries not to use them until the Falin situation occurs. His efforts to avoid exploiting his retainers amount to inaction — things he doesn't ask of them or do to them. But his inaction does nothing to dismantle the existing hierarchy that places his retainers under his authority, denies them agency, and often marginalizes them as not only servants or slaves but as women, and he ends up using them as servants and slaves anyways.

Returning to the narrative's themes of consumption, Toshiro cannot avoid eating just as he cannot avoid perpetuating the exploitative system of his household. The Nakamoto clan consumes the labor and personhood of those lower in the hierarchy. The retainers' labor as spies and domestic servants is the foundation of the clan's existence. Thus, the clan consumes their labor to sustain itself.

Within this hierarchy, the retainers' personhood is also consumed and erased. As Izutsumi describes, they are given different names and stripped of their agency to reject orders or leave. Maizuru and Hien also say their feelings are irrelevant in the context of Toshitsugu's and Toshiro's wants and needs. Both women are expected to comply with whatever is most beneficial and comfortable for the noblemen. Clearly, despite Toshiro's detachment from his household's functions, these social structures remain in place and harm the women under him.

Although we know the Nakamoto clan has male retainers, the choice to highlight the female retainers seems intentional. We're asked to interrogate how not only being a servant or a slave in a noble household impacts a person's life and agency, but how being a woman intersects with being a member of some of the lowest social classes.

Toshiro only distances himself from his father's behaviors of infidelity and exploitation so long as it doesn't take Toshiro out of his comfort zone. He doesn't free his slaves. He's far too comfortable with his female retainers performing domestic labor for him, and he barely acknowledges their efforts; they're shocked when he thanks them for helping him save Falin. He hasn't unpacked his sexist (or classist or racist) biases because he perpetuates his household's oppressive hierarchy throughout the narrative. Considering all of this, he inevitably brings this baggage to his interactions with Falin.

Falin is presumably one of the first women he's had extended contact with that isn't his relative or his family's servant. Because of his trauma surrounding his father and Maizuru sleeping together, he understandably falls for a woman as disconnected as possible from his father and his clan. He seems to genuinely like Falin, respects her boundaries, and graciously accepts her rejection. His behavior towards her is overall kind and unproblematic.

But if Falin had gone with him, she would've likely been devalued and sidelined like the other women of the Nakamoto household. No matter how much he loves Falin, simply loving her cannot replace the difficult work of unlearning his sexism. Love, of course, can and should be accompanied by that work, but by the close of the narrative, we gain little indication that Toshiro acknowledges or seeks to end his part in exploiting and devaluing women and other marginalized people.

A spark of hope does exist. Toshiro expressing his feelings to Laios and Falin suggests that his time away from home has encouraged him to speak up more. Breaking his habit of avoidance may be the first step towards acknowledging his complicity in systems of injustice and moving towards dismantling them.

Special thanks to my very smart friend @atialeague for bringing up Toshitsugu's relationship with Maizuru and the replication of dynamics of consumption and class! <3