#motogp riders play cricket

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9:51 amJuly 14, 2018

Gavin Thomas

In my younger years I raced bikes and karts at club level. Later on I played cricket and squash and coached squash. It took me half my life to work out the most important components required to play sport. 1 – level head, 2 – strong core, 3 – soft hands, 4 – quick feet and 5 – knee position.

There are several other components required to transgress from good to exceptional but those five are important. Roger Federer has all five plus several more. Rafa Nadal does not have soft hands or correct knee position but he makes up for it in other areas. Bike racers certainly need all five components and Rossi and Marquez are good examples. It is not possible to determine if car racers have them due to the nature of the sport but I have always made the assumption that the smoother driver possess them. On that basis I would say Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart and Alain Prost are likely candidates and they may therefore have talent had in all sports.

My top five using this as a measuring criteria are Muhammad Ali, Valentino Rossi, Roger Federer, Andre Joubert and Jonah Barrington.

9:48 amJuly 14, 2018

redline

A few points to add some depth to the topic, which is really interesting:

1. In the days of Hailwood and Surtees, the cars were not aero dependant. With current F1 cars braking and cornering performance are a function of downforce, which generates grip. Learning to exploit downforce is a skill best acquired through a progression through various single seat formula. Grip on MotoGP bikes is essentially independent of aero (yes I know they have winglets, but effect is minor).

2. That said, Rossi and Lorenzo were allegedly quick… although no one has provided any lap-times or data to quantify. But it’s the last 10ths that make a difference between being an Ericsson and a Hamilton.

3. The g-force are completely different. Braking on MotoGP is 1.3-1.5g whereas in F1 it is over 6g at Monza. Similarly peak cornering forces are less than 2g on a MotoGP whereas can be over 6g in F1.

4. Riding a bike at the limit is probably a greater challenge for psychological reasons. I think the fear of falling and the perceived risks are a huge limit – it takes a special kind of nut-case to explore the limits of a MotoGP bike at the Waterfall / Turn 11 of the Sachsenring…

5. The technical skills are probably quite different because the dynamics are so different. Cornering on a motorcycle is counter-intuitive because you have to counter-steer – pressure on the inside bar, rather than the outside. Grip is also far more dynamic – a function of lean angle (contact patch changes) and weight transfer (loading) which is greatly affected by body positioning. Braking is completely different – in F1 you apply max pressure at the start of braking to exploit the downforce, and then bleed-off the pressure as you lose downforce. On a motorcycle, if you do that you would lose the front or flip end over end because of the weight transfer, so you have to build up the pressure, which peaks once the bike has settled. Roll is a major difference too – negligible on an F1 car, but can be well over 60deg in a motorcycle flicking across a change in direction. I think that managing the pitch/roll/yaw “transients” is completely different – more rapid rate of change in an F1 car, but greater dynamic range and more variables to manage on a Motogp.

6. Situational awareness. Have a look at the Assen MotoGP race from a few weeks ago. There were often 5-6 bikes in a corner at the same time, practically on top of each other, swapping paint. Made some of the recent moves we’ve seen in F1 look really cack-handed! I think the proximity, and finesse in managing lines and making moves in MotoGP would freak out the average F1 driver.

7. Another area where I think a MotoGP rider is advantaged is the feeling for tyre grip. Ferrari were extremely surprised at Rossi’s sensitivity and feeling for tyre grip across the 4 corners. This is likely due to motorcycle riders having to do far more active management of grip through lean angle and weight transfer. That said, the tyre characteristics of the current Pirelli’s is obviously tricky, and would possibly confound a MotoGP racer.

7:06 amJuly 14, 2018

Mick

I think it all comes down to feel. The bike rider has a greater sense of feel because the slightest tyre movement has a bigger affect on the trajectory of the bike than it does on the car, meaning the bike rider must judge corner entry more carefully.

The biggest difference between the 2 disciplines is corner entry lines, & this is what stops a lot of riders becoming good drivers.

I believe Rossi could well have made the transition, had he not chosen to remain in Moto GP, as the article has alluded to, but the latest candidate that could transition is Marc Marquez.

Marquez has the skills required, as shown by his play day in Austria, as well as the drive to achieve champion status, but more importantly, he still has time on his side.

Personally, I would enjoy seeing Marquez leave MotoGP, as I believe (as do many I speak with) he is the most dangerous rider in half a century, & if he tried his stupidly dangerous tactics with the 4 wheel boys, I expect they would feed Marquez into a few walls to assist him in learning some respect for racing room.

But Yes, I would love to see somebody join the list with Surtees.

12:20 amJuly 14, 2018

Brian

It is much more difficult to ‘try stuff’ on a bike. You could maybe brake 5 meters later and hit the apex but if you are wrong you will be eating tarmac and tyre walls. I’ve raced both open wheel and bikes (road racing). With open wheel you can try for 105% of the limit and you probably won’t break anything when it goes wrong. In road racing if you ever try 100.000000001% of the limit then you are screwed and it is going to be painful and expensive….but mostly painful.

I can’t see anyone rivalling Surtees as the approaches are entirely different. On a bike you start at maybe 95% and then increase a tiny bit at a time until you get to ‘f**k me that was close’. In a car you start at 90%, look at the data, try 100% which may be 98% or 105%, look at the data and adjust accordingly.

It still takes balls of steel and a ton of skill to drive a fast car quickly. I think most of joe public would probably soil themselves if you put them in the back seat of the safety car.

9:34 pmJuly 13, 2018

Carlos Marques

The basic skill set of an elite MotoGP rider can be applied to driving an F1 car fast- racing line selection, consistent and late braking points, tire management, fitness, lightning fast hand-eye coordination to make instant corrections, and the ability to feel the car.

F1 drivers are missing some of the basic skills to ride a bike fast- use their body to lean into corners, separate front and back brakes, power slides, etc.

In fact, I think MotoGP riders are more suited to drive F1 cars than drivers from other racing series like NASCAR or NHRA.

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