#more canon than milkvan atp

[mikewheelerscloset]

why did suzie and dustin have better chemistry in their never ending story duet than milkvan did the entirety of s4

[chirpsythismorning]

I agree with a lot of this.

Even in the case Mike isn’t oblivious, would they be able to disclose that? No!

Finn saying mike oblivious repeatedly reads as script, just like Noah saying over the years Will’s sexuality is up to interpretation. It is an obvious cop out while we wait. It allows him to dance around the truth. Technically Mike hasn’t rejected Will yet bc technically he doesn’t know. And they can keep people at bay not asking much beyond that bc they’re giving the impression with the monologue that Mike is obviously in love with El… both are not the case.

If Finn was going around saying Mike knows, how could they possibly follow that up without giving away the obvious? They just can’t.

I feel like we’re just sounding like milkvans atp when we insist mike is oblivious and we can only believe that bc what is canon right now is the full truth and nothing but the truth… when we know that is the case…

They’ve built up Will’s feelings for Mike since s1. Noah literally admitted to having to lie and dance around the truth about Will’s sexuality, having to keep it vague, as to not spoil the duffers surprise.

Acting like that’s out of the realm of possibility for Mike, is just odd to me?

Nothing is for sure rn, but tbh I didn’t say it, you didn’t have to being put ins s4 is too poetic to just be completely discarded in the van scene which was this huge moment Will was trying to explain his feelings without Will outright saying it and with Mike looking in love and relieved with an expression resembling sympathy for Will specifically, and understanding.

It’s also more beautiful to imagine both Will and Mike having these repressed feelings for each other simultaneously, than to have Will experience these feelings all alone for years, all the while mike is right there struggling over his relationship with Will and El.

The revelation that they both felt the same and dealt with miscommunication just hits harder. It’s more tragical than being like ohh despite all that hinting and build up for Mike’s conflicted feelings, within the story, perfectly coinciding both of them, Mike is only NOW realizing these feelings.

One makes all of those moments very intentional. One just writes them off as Mike having rocks for brains.

As hard as it is to believe rn bc we’re still being fed the story that Mike and El are in love, Mike was in fact having thoughts in those moments.

And that all came to a head in s4 and is going to finally be addressed in s5 when all his dominos fall.

Tbh I think they’ve been going crazy together this whole time… TOGETHER!!

Mike understanding Will vs. Mike being oblivious

Evidence that Mike knows what Will is talking about in the van:

Will: "I didn't say it", Mike: "You didn't have to" - You're telling me that after they say this, Will is now going to have to spell out his feelings for Mike to understand? The wrote this line for a reason.

Mike has always been very emotionally aware of Will. We see that this season at the skating rink when it seems like Mike is ignoring him. He lists all these things Will's done (rolling his eyes, etc.). He pays attention to Will. We've seen this in past seasons, too. The only time he was shown to not be aware of Will's feelings was briefly in season 3 was when him and Lucas were making fun of him over D&D. The second Mike realizes he actually hurt him, he runs after him to apologize and he never does this again. Mike was so busy pretending to be all grown up and like Lucas he missed what was happening with Will. But he figures it out quickly and fixes it.

Will: "You make her feel like she's not a mistake". Will says this line when he's giving Mike the painting and pretending his feelings are El's. Mike knows this isn't true. Him and El had a fight in Lenora and El said "You looked at me like I'm a monster". This fight happened a few days before Will says this. Mike didn't forget. He knows what they fought about. He knows he makes El feel like a monster because she told him.

Mike: "I care for you so much". This line is so platonic and self-aware. She wants him to tell her he loves her and deliberately avoids saying it. He knows what she wants him to say. He blurted out he loves her at the end of season 3, makes a confused face after he says it, tries to awkwardly talk to her and explain that he loves her while avoiding saying the word and confuses her in the process. Then when she brings it up later, he pretends like he doesn't remember and says "that was just heat of the moment stuff". She says it back to him and he's confused and doesn't respond. Then he spends the next several months avoiding saying it the letters he writes her. This is again, very self-aware. It would be very easy to write this. Especially if he already said it out loud. He recognized at the end of 3 that he didn't mean it and didn't say it again.

He throws away 2 of her letters that we see. It's implied he isn't keeping them.

He flirts with Will twice in Lenora. Not to mention how flirty they were at the end of season 3 when they are packing up they Byer's things.

Mike's emotional intelligence has been on display several times throughout the series. Not only does he take care of Will but they have many heart-to-heart conversations where he is empathetic and understanding. He listens to Will. But we also see him do this a little with El in season 1. When they first find her he acknowledges that she's scared and gives her a place to stay and food. He didn't have to do this. It shows emotional maturity. He is aware of other peoples feelings. He doesn't register that Lucas is jealous of the time he's spending with her because he is honestly not spending a lot of time with her. I just rewatched season 1. Their time together is limited. So when Dustin calls him oblivious for not realizing why Lucas was jealous, it really just doesn't add up logically with what was actually happening. Which is why Mike doesn't register this. It's not obliviousness. Dustin and Lucas are misinterpreting the situation.

He looks like he's in physical pain giving his I love you monologue to El. He is more than capable of listing things he likes about a person. There is a reason Will calls him the heart. He connects emotionally to people (Will specifically) but he can't do that with El. He knows he is lying. All of his behavior up until this point suggests he knows this.

Him and El aren't speaking at the end and are rolling their eyes at each other. He isn't even attempting to talk to her. If he believed anything he said he wouldn't be acting like this. He would be trying to talk to her or comfort her when she's clearly upset. When they get to the cabin he just completely ignores her and walks ahead and leaves her behind at the car without a second glance back. This isn't obliviousness and a lack of emotional awareness. We see him 2 minutes later talking to Will and telling him she's upset she lost and then comforting Will about Henry. He knows and understands what people are feeling and what the correct responses are to emotional situations. He doesn't comfort El because he doesn't want to and he knows she doesn't want him to. He is aware of this. She's rolling her eyes at him, too. The only time they aren't stand offish with each other is at the hospital. She leans her head on his shoulder in a very Harry and Hermione like way. He lets her. It's what she needs in the moment. He's not confused by this or shoving her off.

Evidence that Mike is oblivious:

Mike is never actually SHOWN to be oblivious, we just have characters saying that he is. Dustin and Lucas say it in reference to the way that he acts TOWARD EL. Not towards Will. He doesn't respond to El the way that someone who has a crush on her does which is why they say he is oblivious. He doesn't act like a boyfriends is supposed to so they help him. They are realizing he isn't acting that way for a reason. Mike has never be called oblivious in reference to Will.

Finn says Mike is oblivious and clueless. Of course he does. He can't say that he knows what Will is talking about. It's a spoiler. I don't know why people take these interviews so seriously. The actors can't say anything. They frequently say things that aren't true because they were instructed to. Interviews are to promote the show. And the audience is in the dark about Mike's feelings so he can't say more than this. The oblivious excuse is so easy. It allows people to dismiss a lot of other things that are going on. It's superficial. But the show is never what it seems on the surface. They like to show and not tell. So if they are TELLING us that Mike is oblivious, then we need to pay attention to what they are SHOWING us. They have never shown us that he has no idea what's going on. They have shown us the opposite. It's a misdirect. They want people believing he's oblivious so that when they show us the truth it's completely unexpected. Most of the audience has the wrong perception of him. And honestly, a lot of the insistence that Mike is oblivious is coming from people who desperately want him to have romantic feelings for El at some point even if they think Byler is endgame. I don't understand this need for these two to be romantically involved. There is the bare minimum being done with the way they interact. They are being intentionally written to not understand each other or be good for each other and it's been consistent since the beginning. Just because one is a boy and one is a girl and they are cute kids doesn't mean they need to be crushing on each other. It isn't being SHOWN.