#me burning the “armand de romanus” tag with fire in a very louis-esque fashion

[massiveharmonytiger]

Yeah, I love being in the IWTV fandom, but you guys are so much unnecessary drama sometimes.

Where do I start?

Firstly, TVA is very much my bag, otherwise I would not have read it. I don't waste time reading anything I don't like. Gothic horror bdsm gay monsterfucker erotica is also very much my bag. There seems to be this misconception that anybody that has anything critical to say about Marius is anti-ship, pro-censorship and puritanical, and this is just not true. Liking a piece of media doesn't mean that I can't engage with my interpretation and feelings about the characters, and if you "don't like or approve of" that, you're welcome to block me. If my post made you "uncomfortable", "you should have closed it."

I know people like to do this neat little mental trick called cognitive dissonance where they lie about what a character is because they can't justify liking them to themselves if they really do fit the label. So they do a lot of mental gymnastics to convince themselves that this character doesn't fit the label and crap on anyone who points out that they do or has some sort of alternative viewpoint. But personally, I have liked a lot of abusive characters, and I'll probably continue liking them. I will also continue discussing what makes them abusive as well as what makes them human or what makes them victims, because I like complex characters and looking at the whole picture. Anybody who doesn't like that is also welcome to block me.

It's clear that I was trying to be fair and nuanced about Marius despite the fact that the post is, first and foremost, about Armand's childhood trauma (and what he may be projecting onto Claudia). It's also clear that I'm talking about what was covered in the IWTV show and filling in the blanks with book content, whereas you're just talking about the books. I suggest watching the show before you start trying to poke holes in my metas, at least then I know we're talking about the same thing. Unless you're from the you-know-what part of the fandom that's boycotting the show because the showrunners aren't catering to your every whim and you're not getting exactly what you want. In which case, you're really missing out because the show is visually stunning, the writing is amazing, Assad Zaman is absolutely incredible as Armand and I'll bet that show Marius is going to be just as gorgeous, talented and complex.

I'm just not sure why someone would engage with a fandom where one of the main characters used to be a sex slave that people raped as a child, is "rescued" by someone extremely powerful buying him (which just gave him SO much agency over his situation), trauma bonded with his "rescuer", which is evident by the fact that Armand worships Marius and views him through rose-coloured glasses despite the fact that the minute he acts out for his attention or leaves and tries to establish other bonds of his own free will (this excludes the times Marius sent him to the brothels to polish his skills), he gets beaten or threatened. Here's a post I made about it, featuring some of the Marius tantrums you were so curious about. If you're interested. And yes, Marius is a silent, sulky type, which just makes him all the more terrifying when he does lose it. And Armand, who has been conditioned to find terror and abuse arousing reacts in the only way he knows how to. Marius doesn't question it because he's getting what he wants, but please note that he adds a few kind and gentle words afterwards, just in case Armand one day decides no amount of love is worth this.

I'm not sure why someone would engage with a fandom where all of this happened to a character, and then be surprised when Armand kinnies see traces of their own trauma and victimhood in Armand and their own groomers and abusers in Marius, and (understandably) want to rip Marius a new one. It's just common sense. This kind of media is for them as well and while you may get off on jumping to the defense of fictional characters because you can't grasp the fact that they can be likeable and detestable at the same time, I personally care about listening to and learning from the opinions and feelings of real people with lived experiences. As long as nobody is shaming anyone or calling for censorship, they have the right to view media and characters any way they want to. And yes, that includes you, even though you couldn't grant me the same courtesy.

Anyways, I was planning to do some follow up posts elaborating on my original post anyways. Especially the Claudia/Armand parallels, Marius' early relationship with Armand and Armand's later relationship patterns. So thanks for the inspiration. And the side of victim blaming.

Anyone ever think about the fact that Armand probably hated the hell out of Claudia for having what he never could.

Claudia gets rescued from death as an innocent. Armand gets rescued from death as someone whose innocence died the day those slavers captured and raped him.

Claudia gets Louis and Lestat's love and takes it for granted. Armand craves their love but gets their scorn.

After she is made a vampire, Claudia lives with two caring fathers only to pine for a mortal life she'll never have and run away from the situation when the cruelty of being a vampire gets to be too much for her.

Obviously this isn't how I see it. Claudia had every right to run away after how she was treated and seek out her own answers. And her child/fledglinghood definitely wasn't all sunshine and roses. Her aunt abused her, Lestat was extremely cruel to her after Charlie's death, the Loustat brawl, Lestat dropping Louis from the sky, Bruce's abuse - all of these were extremely traumatizing and hard to live through.

My point is that Armand could know all of this and still see Claudia's past as the rosy childhood he never had because his was just that fucked up.

Also, I think book Armand is enslaved around a similar age to when book Claudia is turned (I read it this way, although I'm struggling to confirm this, can anyone confirm?) and I can see him wondering why he couldn't have had the dark gift to protect him then. Why does Claudia get it? Why is she any more worthy than he is?

Where Claudia doesn't have to do a thing, Armand has to prove his cruel streak to earn the dark gift and after he is made a vampire, he lives with his groomer, Marius, who is set on fire and Armand is captured by a coven that teaches him to hate himself until Lestat steps in.

So yeah, why would he stop the coven from killing her when she's had everything he's ever wanted?

Side note because I've seen some really bad takes on the Marius/Armand relationship.

Yes, Armand was in love with Marius and Marius loved him too. Yes, Marius rescued Armand from the brothel. Yes, Marius was kinder than Armand's slavers and Armand enjoyed a lot of the sex stuff he did when he was living with Marius. Yes, pederasty was normalized during that time and Marius was just acting like any man in his position would.

AND

Marius was still a groomer and an abuser. Marius was still in a position of power pulling strings to get Armand to do what he wanted and throwing tantrums when things didn't go his way. Marius still got off on Armand worshipping him. Marius was still Armand's owner and his kindness was dependent on Armand doing what he said (like letting himself be donated when a friend came from out of town - some people will say Armand was lying about that, to which I say, fuck you).

The fact that Armand enjoyed sex, started fetishizing his own abuse and using his body as a tool of manipulation doesn't make him complicit, neither does the fact that Marius had redeeming qualities (beauty, kindness, wisdom) and Armand fell in love with him.

None of this makes what Armand went through any less traumatizing. He's 500 years old and we can still see him grapple with what happened in his childhood.

I have no idea how they're going to portray Marius/Armand's childhood in the show, but I feel that even just a fraction of this would make Armand's resentment of Claudia pretty real, and I really hope we get to see Armand confront this in later seasons even though I'm pretty sure a lot of it is unconscious and he may not even be fully aware that he feels this way.