#mcarthysim

[wolrith]

its so hard to talk on this topic bc i despise every point being made on it. imo the russians are unambiguously fascist, and ukraine is suffering a terrible genocide - if they don't fight back, it'll be catastrophic not just for them, but for the whole world. a surrender will mean russia has won, as anything other than total russian defeat would be a Russian victory. see finland in ww2, where the losses exceeded the gains. but that has been the russian strategy for centuries, since the days of the empire they could always afford themselves throwing countless lives away to win inches of land. they never cared, and the world was unable to make meaningful consequences. the russian economy sinking to points it might never recover from is something they barely give a shit about. their citizens will starve again, luxuries will significantly lessen for the rich, but the kremlin will stand. the only "victory" situation right now would be revolution and the demise of the russian federation, but that would be catastrophically bloody as well - its a long road away, and it will be as chaotic as the fall of the USSR, if not more, and will have lasting consequences for generations to come. Plus, it will either end with another fascist regime, or an american hellhole puppet. and ukraine will probably end up with both.

you should absolutely protest the american meatgrinder because of the points OP made and more. supplying weapons to ukraine only prolongs the unwinnable fight which will eventually leave ukraine a hollow corpse with no hope of ever recovering - see the vietnamese who, even after fighting the american invasion, have suffered such monumental losses that the ratio of men to women is one of the lowest in southeast asia. see ireland, which in completely different circumstances lost such a large portion of its population, it still hasn't recovered to its pre-famine numbers. same for jews, who have yet to recover from the holocaust.

feeding the ukraine war will only result in terrible losses on both sides, from which they are unlikely to recover. the people who actually lose are very rarely the ones in charge, and likely will never be the ones supplying the war. its like adding fuel to an all-consuming fire, while standing miles away surrounded by titanium walls and a set of binoculars to watch it burn everything down.

and not just in losses of land or people, it radicalizes the whole world. europe is militarizing to levels not seen since world war 2. fascism is on the rise globally, with the war feeding fearmongering and hatred. they tell you 'russia bad', 'russia fascist' and if you support them you're bad and fascist too, which is true, but when politicians say that it means that they expect you to prove you're not - vote for the fascists who'll fight the 'threat', point out your neighbors who might support the dirty russians! it'll be mcarthysim all over again, and as a wise person said recently, "I've read the rest of the fucking poem".

Just so that everyone is on the same page: if we are going to analogize the Russian invasion of Ukraine to the American invasion of Iraq, Russia is playing the role of America.

Russia is even running the same bullshit "our enemies are fascist" propaganda campaign.

If you're anti war, you should be protesting Russian warmongering, not American aid to those resisting.

I’ve talked extensively about how Russia is doing the “war on terror” routine, and how the invasion, which I oppose, is causing Ukraine to become more fascist in reaction (banning of all opposition parties, welcoming of neonazi militias into the national guard, etc).

I’ve been analogizing to Afghanistan, not Iraq, which if you recall, was also invaded by Russia (then the Soviet Union) and the US trained and armed the mujahideen in response. Something I think we can agree was a bad move, given that the Taliban now controls the country, no?

I do not live in Russia, I can’t meaningfully protest their government, but I can protest mine sending over fucking cluster munitions man. Government officials in the US (and a number of European countries, Germany most recently) have outright said they don’t care if Ukrainians want to surrender, they will keep pushing for total victory. It’s a meat grinder that NATO is pouring Ukrainians into and reaping the benefits of. I want it to end.

[vitriolicdelirium]

UHHHHHHHH cloud goat.