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annnahatcher-blog · 8 years ago

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Oh gosh............

candyumbrella

reblogged your post and added: “STOP. REDUCING. DONNA. TO. NOTHING. TO. MAKE. YOUR. SHIP. LOOK....”

candyumbrella

My biggest problem with your post is that you’re...

Okay... I think regarding the tweets and screen caps I have said my piece in the previous answer that I wrote just to say I will reply when I have time but what did actually intrigue me is that you dedicated half of this post to tell me just how valuable and whatever-you-called-it Scarvey is? I think we can go back and forth pushing our opinions down each other’s throats and down-grading what the other likes, since that’s how it’s done these days in fandoms apparently, but honestly, since we will clearly never see the show in the same way, I would just like to go back to the point of the post I wrote- Darvey and Donna and clear up some things some of the people I actually do know in the fandom & have talked to about their views said and you interpreted in some weird way that actually has very little to do with what the parts of the fandom I know and have engaged with were / are going through in regards to either Scarvey since you talked about it so much or other stuff…

1) “You mean like how Darvey shippers insisted so hard that Harvey hadn’t slept with Esther at the end of 5x04 (even though anyone with eyes could’ve seen he did) that Aaron Korsh had to confirm on Twitter that they did sleep together?” I can actually 100% say I wasn’t in any way a part of this mess / dilemma because I wasn’t tweeting about those episodes, however, I do actually know for a fact that there were more people from tweets to reviews than just Darvey fans who were confused on whether Harvey actually did sleep with Esther. For example…

So of course, if the writing clearly didn’t suffice for everyone in making a point that Harvey and Esther slept together, people who love Darvey I guess held on to that, while they were more people – “with eyes” – who didn’t understand if that happened or not.

2) I really don’t see the point of trying to show me that “ignoring every actual storyline” and not showing “real arguments”? Has anything to do with people making Rachel a part of Darvey head canons. I understand your example, however, what fandom doesn’t make head canons that involve other characters regarding their ships? Not to mention that the writers of the show have over and over again made Darvey a part of a discussion with / between other characters where Rachel & Scottie are most definitely a part of that. + “when that very scene between them showcased their POVs as women, as girlfriends, and as lawyers, and added far more interesting layers to their characterization than whatever Darvey-propping YOUR fandom wanted” like, once again, as far as I know- people were making head canons about what that scene could be BEFORE IT HAPPENED. It wasn’t about me or any of the people I do talk to making that scene into something darvey related after that episode or being disapproving of it in regards to Rachel & Scottie interaction. It was prior to the episode- imagination, head canons, etc. ????

3) “Marvey is THE central relationship of the show” Yep, I think it’s safe to say that this is old news. When I said “Marvey never existed” I was, clearly and straight forward, relating to the ‘Marvey’romantic ship. No matter how central Harvey & Mike’s relationship is in the show, ‘Marvey’ in a romantic way never existed.

4) “You don’t even believe that yourselves, in your heart of hearts. If you did, then 5x13 wouldn’t have bothered Darvey shippers at all, let alone bothered them as much as it did”

OHH GOD, first of all:

From the day of the episode, from my twitter… since I don’t have the time in my life to literally dig up every single thing ever said by every shipper ever like you did, this is what came up from me, some of the stuff I posted that day and what I also want to say is: imagine a fandom that had prior to 513 very solid episodes, with the network & writers & producer tweeting about their ship as well. And then they bring back an old love interest and stir things up again. I am not saying they can’t do that, after initial anger and a wave of hate for the writing, for me there was only understanding that it’s a part of the way show does things- they want to keep everyone watching. Ok, I get that. HOWEVER, you can’t blame fans for being freaking disappointed and sad that after so many seasons and their ship getting closer and closer they pull that stuff. It’s like you are making a fandom that is upset because a half of their ship had an ambiguous (u can argue- open) scene with someone other than the other half of their ship into something that it’s not. “Again, if it really played as closure then why did it hurt you so damn much to watch it?” OF COURSE people were upset?? Of course everyone who ships Darvey would have preferred that episode to be about Darvey. Isn’t that common sense? But that doesn’t mean all darvey fans went into a spiral of anger and panic because they deep down thought / knew Scarvey is endgame? O.o

“(…) Mike’s secret might have been the breaking point there were other things that contributed to that break-up – including the fact that she (scottie)’s not the easiest person to be in a relationship with. This particular scene gets a bit of course correction at the end of the episode when Harvey admits to Scottie his trust issues were a factor, too, but that still doesn’t make her accept even a fraction of the blame. Let’s knock her off that pedestal.” (link: http://hiddenremote.com/2016/02/11/suits-review-gods-green-earth/) First hit on reviews for 5x13 from Google I just found, not some random Darvey fan, a person that is paid to write and analyses.

Not to mention…

3x11, Jessica about Scarvey: “But what happens when you two break up?”

3x15, Donna, as said by Korsh- Harvey’s emotional compass and voice of reason who also tried to make it work for him and Scottie because she wanted him to be happy: “Someone who is pissed at you, Harvey. Someone who keeps finding a reason to be pissed at you. And it’s not the 3rd time, it’s not the 5th time and it’s not the last time.”

5x01, Jessica talking about Donna leaving Harvey: “Shit Harvey, Scottie leaving didn’t throw you off your game as much”

5) “If Harvey ever said or did a tenth of what he said or did for Scottie to Donna, y'all would be in seventh heaven of shipper delight and you know it.”

Yeah like all those times he USED THE FEELINGS SHE HAD FOR HIM TO GET SOMETHING? Like wanting her to drop a case, or telling her a story about how he first saw her knowing it will work to get her to do something for him? All those times he put other people before her? 3x16, Scottie: “Not now Donna (…) I guess it’s not now Scottie.” How in the same episode she had to ask other people to tell her stuff to the extent that Jessica pointed out to her that she jumped into this relationship that is clearly not working out? The fact that he forgot she went away for 14 days and Donna had to remind him? The fact that his gift for her consisted of a bottle of scotch and then Donna bought glasses to make it into a decent gif, as voiced ON THE SHOW?

JESSICA HAS SAID SO MANY THINGS about Donna and Darvey relationship (not to mention Rachel, Mike, Big Bertha, Gretchen, Agard, Louis, ETC ETC) Harvey has literally behaved better towards Donna in the show than he ever did towards Scottie. He continues to open up to her, he went to see her play, brought her flowers, took her to breakfast and shopping because she was sad, told his freaking mother about her, LITERALLY TOLD DONNA “Anyone else ever loses faith in me, it doesn’t matter. But with you, it’s different.” All of the things he was never able to do in any of his relationships, he has done for her without a second thought.This isnt me just saying stuff to make another ship look bad, this is WHAT HAPPENED ON THE SHOW.

Like HONESTLY, you are free to prefer Scarvey over Darvey. BUT PLEASE, do not tell me I would love to have Scarvey-like scenes for Darvey because I wouldn’t be shipping them if that was the case. Season 1 where Scottie made Harvey a cheater, while knowing that’s the one thing he hates more than anything in life prevented me from ever feeling anything for that relationship. But everything that happened in s2, s3 and on for them didn’t make any difference either.

6) … As Korsh said before 4B, “Scottie always will be in the picture in some sense.” The only classic trope missing from the list is “She’s the love of my life” and if they can get Abigail back in a future season it wouldn’t surprise me if that line came up in some form, especially since it was already implied when Harvey reacted to his sessions with Dr. Agard telling him he had to deal with his issues if he wanted to have a real relationship by seeking out Scottie to basically ask her if she would wait for him.

Wow now, I have to stop at this because you said WE are twisting things? Yes, Agard was talking about his relationships in general but that literally happened right after Harvey had a dream about Donna in connection to his mother issues. THEN Agard said that as long as he doesn’t fix these issues regarding his mom he will never be able to have a relationship. And let’s see what happened regards to his mom later on. At the end of 6x11 Donna told him he needs to go see her because he won’t be able to “fill that void” otherwise. Then in 6x12 she gave him a peep talk to assure him (along with all flashbacks). Then he went to see his mom and told her he is ready to forgive her. She asked “Why now?” and He said “Someone very special to me convinced me that I needed to.” And she replied “Whoever it is, I am glad she did.” After they finally talked things through she gave him that picture to take back home to replace the painting and he asked Donna to be there to put it up with him. You really think after all this SCOTTIE will be the one Harvey will show up for after dealing with his issues and there being NO CONNECTION TO ANY OTHER LOVE INTEREST IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM in that episode?

KORSH LITERALLY SAID BEFORE 6x12: “He has got some messed up issues with his mom. Until he gets through it, he’s never going to be able to be the man for Donna. That is sort of the conversation and possibly the right assessment of what’s going on.” AND AT THE END HE ALSO ADDED THAT even if Harvey may never fix his stuff with his mom, doesn’t become that man “But nonetheless he is inching closer to her anyway.”

No need to say more.

7) Regards to the notes you made for Darvey fans behavior after 6x16 I don’t think we understand each other once again… the point of my post (also why I am replying to all the things I replied because I think you are mixing up stuff) was to say that I hate when people are making FAKE ASSUMPTIONS, compared to the show, about Donna to lift their ship up. And I didn’t say no one can ever complain about anything THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED for god’s sake?

AGAIN, I KNOW FOR A FACT that people I TALK TO, and I BASED MY DARVEY PARTS OF THE POST ON, AS I HAVE EXPLAINED SO MANY TIMES, WERENT ANNOYED BY THE DARVEY SCENE. I literally talked in a group chat after the episode and as everyone there processed what has happened we came to a conclusion that

a) It didn’t feel like “enough” compared with how intense the promotion of the show in regards to darvey was + how 6.10-6.13 were in general but it will when it develops

However,

b) That we were really excited because it left the door for them open and finally we will see the status quo of their relationship change.

If people weren’t ok with how 616 played out I understand them. The atmosphere of the fandom was incredibly positive and hopeful, largely to do so with how the show was promoted (as well as for the machel wedding, that also didn’t happen) but I truly don’t think out of that it’s fair to make assumptions that every person that complained or didn’t think it was enough was just doing so out of personal belief that darvey fans shall have a part in decision making. But whatever, sooo wasn’t the point to my post.

8) “But sure, Darvey shippers are the ones who truly see Donna, while everyone else is trying to put her down just because she (supposedly) gets in the way of their ship. It’s not like most Darvey shippers saw zero value in Donna’s storyline in 6x16, right? It’s not like they’re citing 6x11 and 6x12 as the best episodes of the season and saying everything else sucked, when Donna solely played a supporting role to Harvey in those eps and got her best material as a character in 6x15-6x16. It’s not like they didn’t all praise 5x12 as a great episode and then turn around the very next week and say that 5x12 hadn’t done anything for Donna as a character–how on earth could 5x13 retroactively harm what had been a great ep for Donna only 7 days before? OH, I WONDER HOW. Most of your fandom only gives a damn about Donna or anything relating to Donna if they believe the show is eventually leading to Darvey.”

NOW THIS……… Darvey fans were the ones who made (me and my friend Lamia as the ones who started it) a freaking hashtag during 6a about Donna deserving better that got so much attention FROM DARVEY FANS AND PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT DONNA IN GENERAL that Sarah thanked one of the tweets (which was explaining that it’s about DONNA having a BETTER STORYLINE ABOUT HER, FOCUSING ON HER AS A PERSON). Not only that, Korsh also said he saw the responses and that it felt good to see, that even though he had the idea for Donna’s storyline before that happened, people wanting something he had in the works so much.

Not to mention the amount of times I have seen tweets from people who ship Darvey (myself included) saying that at the end of the day they just want Donna to be happy and were able to recognize moments where her happiness was more important to them than Darvey as a ship.

9) And… you made 4 paragraph point about Harvey and his relationship with Scottie / Mike VS Donna. Again, I don’t think it had anything to do with anything I tried to convey, as not much of what you said did, however, it did amuse me enough to reply because I am just really amazed at the way you perceive things because-> “Darvey shippers worry about whether Scottie will show up and Harvey will still be in love with her. Scarvey shippers are fine with Donna being in love with Harvey, because it makes no difference to our ship;” …………wtf……………are you kidding me? For the first part- people don’t want Scottie to come back because WE ARE TIRED OF BEING PLAYED AND THE SHOW PUTTING OTHER LOVE INTEREST IN TO SLOW DOWN THE PROGRESS (as Korsh said in the Suits_usa blog that he knows once he puts Darvey together it basically closes the doors for other love interests) etc. I wonder what kind of world you live in where shippers of something, want half of some other ship to come back to the show? LITERALLY 90% OF THE DARVEY FANS I HAVE SPOKEN TO ARE SURE DARVEY IS ENDGAME. We are just waiting. TO QUOTE KORSH AFTER THE DREAM SCENE IN 6.11 “I find it hard to believe that in the rest of the seasons of the show we won’t have more than just that but we will see when we get there.”

I don’t think it’s strange or pro-scarvey-endgame of Darvey fans to not want to have to watch Harvey with another person six seasons in while we know Darvey is bound to happen.

And for the 2nd part- I know there are only a few Scarvey shippers I have stumbled upon on Twitter, but, the fact that you said that Donna being in love with Harvey doesn’t make any difference to your ship is kinda funny since SCOTTIE ASKED DONNA “Are you in love with him, Donna?” before making her choice with Harvey. Even if it didn’t matter to your fandom (which again, I don’t know much about other than what I have already said in my previous post), is sure as hell seemed to have mattered to a character on the show, a half of your ship. And that to me is a lot more important than anything else.

10) “I don’t need to erase or forget or disqualify a single canon scene to ship what I ship, because comparing Darvey and Scarvey doesn’t hurt my ship, so I don’t need to erase Darvey to ship my ship, either.” You literally spent 4 paragraphs telling me why Harvey cares more about Scottie or Mike in the “canon” sense than Donna and miss-interpreted THE WHOLE POINT OF DARVEY, to justify your point. IF YOU HAVE READ ANY INTERVIEW AFTER s4 or WATCHED WHAT THE ACTORS SAID IN S5 BONUS, you would see that you quite literally just erased and disqualified more than just a single canon scene to ship your ship.

Which brings me to my last point because quite honestly I am so done with reading what you said and trying to explain myself once again (and for the last time, FOR SURE.) when I could be doing so many more productive things- nothing made me laugh more (and I did laugh.) than your last paragraph. Maybe Harvey is your favorite character, maybe he isn’t, and quite frankly, I don’t even care, but it’s more than clear that the only reason you mentioned that at the end is to try to add weight to everything you wrote prior. Oh so because he is your favorite character your intentions are completely pure and should be taken into consideration more than other opinions? I could say the same, Harvey and Donna are my favorite characters on the show. But I don’t think it’s of need to point that out because you don’t have to think of Harvey as your favorite character to understand the basic storylines of the show and where they are going.

I really don’t see the necessity of most stuff in regards to what my post was about. For whatever reason you had enough time to quote and talk about so much stuff, I don’t know. I didn’t even have enough time to read every post you provided with your claims. I just wanted to reply to what seemed to point on my post or simply found so amusing against everything I believe and am certain off that I just look couldn’t pass it.

I think it’s more than clear we will NEVER EVER E V E R agree on anything about this show and that’s ok. I just wanted to try to make my points like you tried to make yours.

The end.

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