#making such a direct analogy between the two and having the resolution be ‘you’re screwed no matter what so just die’ is shitty as hell

[queencvbra]

hot take but if your “horror” movie centers around mental illness and your plot resolution is that the only way your protagonist can escape the force terrorizing them (the analogy for the mental illness) is for them to die then you shouldn’t make that fucking movie. don’t ever touch the subject again. you’re banned.

[roguepythia]

Meta: Characterizations to Cling to

rose-for-dead-alice replied to your post “Honestly though, I was a hardcore Spuffy shipper. S6 wrecked our shit...”

                       Honestly yeah as much as I kind of hate the loss of a potential canon gay romance on a hit TV show....At least it isn't like what Buffy did with that attempted rape scene, Buffy got way too sexual and I always felt so violated by that part of the show.                    

So many people felt the same! And “violated” is the perfect word choice too. It’s exactly how the entire fandom felt.

Putting this under a read more as I meta about Spuffy and Nygmobblepot characterizations, world-breaking, and fandom/show relationships. It’s a long one people, grab a snack first. 

BtVS S6 just got so dark, dealing with themes like self-hate and using sex as self-punishment. They had spent the entire season completely objectifying Spike and turning him into basically a giant sex toy. And made it seem all “a-okay” to do cause he’d had his own sex toy for awhile in the Buffybot. Plus, Buffy was the “hero” so she “couldn’t” do any wrong. It was all Spike’s fault that he was willing to put up with it. Either because he loved her so much he was willing to take on her pain or he was a monster that couldn’t tell the difference between love and self-hate therefore didn’t think she was doing anything wrong. Considering his keen ability to see through the bullshit my take was the first. He knew she was hurting and wanted to take that pain from her, if he got his leg over in the process so much the better for him.

And then they pulled the rug out from under us when all of sudden he attacks her. They completely ignore all of their world-building to make him out to be the bad guy that can’t see where the line is, when she’s been crossing it all season. Even though at his most evil self he had limits. And then it’s been proven that Buffy is 10x more powerful than Spike but because she got a little banged up earlier that night, all of a sudden he can overpower her? It was also so completely out of character for both of them. Buffy the “hit first, ask questions later” Slayer begging Spike “Love’s Bitch” to stop rather than just kicking him through the wall. Which she can do as she’s a Slayer. Which leads me to my next point.

The audience reaction. They didn’t make this show in a vacuum. There was an audience and a large fanbase. As a college-aged young woman watching this show, I identified with Buffy. She was for my generation what Wonder Woman is now to this one. We looked up to her. She fought the good fight. She stood up to right the wrongs of the “demons” that tried to take her power. She was a metaphor for girls to say to themselves, “I matter. I have power. I have a voice!” So of course when she gets attacked like that, by someone who claims to love her, we all feel attacked as well.

And the Spike fans were doubly betrayed. We identified with Buffy and Spike. The Heroine and the Outsider. They had been such a powerful team and Spike was on his redemption journey already. He spent the entire summer being The Protector to her younger sister and asked for nothing in return except for someone to buy him Wheetabix every once in awhile. Yes, he was still a demon but he was fighting his nature to be something better than himself. Even without a soul he was still trying. That character development was completely destroyed in one scene. The only way to reconcile what happened was to headcanon that even Spike was so appalled by his own behavior that he sought his soul. He basically said, “THIS ISN’T WHO I AM! Screw this, I’m outta here.” Which as noted by the below, might have been their plan.

The following quotes are from the wiki page on this ep and very enlightening as apparently the scene was shot in such a way as to evoke sympathy for Spike....while he was attempting to rape Buffy. Let that sink in.

In the DVD commentary, James Marsters said that filming the scene in which Spike attempts to rape Buffy was one of the hardest he ever had to do. He has since said that he will never do such a scene again. That scene has also generated controversy between fans and the writers,[2] but writer Jane Espenson says that moment was necessary to set up a powerful motivation for Spike's quest to gain a soul.[3] As James Marsters points out, "How do you motivate him [to] make a mistake that’s so heart-rending that he’d be willing to do that?"[4]

Marsters would later say in 2012 that he understood the idea to have come from "a female writer, [who] had a situation in her life where she was and her boyfriend were breaking up and she decided if she just made love to him one more time, that they wouldn't break up. She ended up trying to force herself on him and decided to write about that. The thing is, if you flip it and make it a man forcing himself on a woman, I believe it becomes a whole different thing... I'm not really sure it expressed what the author was intending and on that score it was not successful." [5]

In her essay on sex and violence in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Gwyn Symonds calls the scene itself "technically and emotionally intricate" in that, unlike most depictions of attempted rape, it "encourages a complex audience engagement with both... the perpetrator and the victim."[6] The action was "very carefully choreographed" according to James Marsters,[4] with the camera alternating between close-ups of Buffy and Spike separately to reinforce the audience's shifting empathy with both Buffy and Spike.[6] Writer Rebecca Rand Kirshner agrees that the viewer "could feel how [Spike's] very innards were twisted into this perversion of what he wanted," and she found that experiencing the scene from his perspective was additionally disturbing.[7]

The above makes it clear that the most egregious crime of that scene was against the fans. Not only was it bad decision making on several levels to portray an attacker as a victim but to also believe that you can swap genders in such a scene without a problem. But the most obscene aspect of all, is the world-breaking. In the Buffyverse, Spike is a Demon. Buffy is a Slayer. They are NOT HUMAN. They don’t live by human rules. But the fans are human and we do live in a sometimes ugly, cruel world. By making these supernatural creatures act within human boundaries, the analogies were broken. It was no longer a metaphor. This brought a show that wasn’t just steeped in supernatural elements but solidly based in them, kicking and screaming into the “real world”.

The fandom reacted. All of a sudden fans were labeled “rape apologists” or had to relive the most harrowing moments of their lives to explain how deeply the show had hurt them. Sometimes both. I don’t think the show or the fandom ever recovered. It was a breech of trust that the show writers could never mend.

Even now as writers for the show head other projects, BtVS fans know who they are and what they’ve done. When I found out  Steven S. DeKnight was taking over directing duties for Del Toro on Pacific Rim 2, I wanted to barf. Now the story I love about all of humanity coming together to fight a common foe; full of love and pathos, resolute in its determination to never give up, to go down swinging, to stand up and maybe even pay the ultimate sacrifice to protect those that cannot..... “Today we are cancelling the apocalypse!“ Now it’s in his hands. It’s now going to take a dark and twisted turn full of some type of self loathing and hatred, I’m sure of it. Ug. Fifteen years later and I’m still so appalled at how all this went down.

And if anyone is still reading this long essay at this point, (you get a virtual cookie) but I guess you’re wondering how this all relates to Nygmobblepot. Well, my main point of contention about the above is that they took the characters out of their world. They took supernatural creatures and made them act as if they were human. It wasn’t just that it was OOC for both characters, it wasn’t BtVS either.

The Nygmobblepot and Gotham fandoms are “alive”. Our feelings about the show, the characters, and the fandom itself shift with each new piece of content we receive. And unfortunately, we receive this content in a lot more ways now.  

When BtVS was around, we didn’t have “social media”. Facebook didn’t even exist until one year after BtVS concluded. There wasn’t a twitter page dangling our ship in front of us with colored hearts and cute images or coy phrases. There was an on-line presence, yes, but fans only really interacted with fans and fansites. We didn’t have a direct line to the creators and/or actors on the show on a daily basis like we do now. And maybe we were better off? It is a double edged sword. We can now make our voices heard so much easier but then we are subjected to constant pandering to get “all eyes focused here!!” so advertisers can rake in the money every time we click on a site.

But that isn’t part of the show itself. It’s not. It’s the social media arm run by the PR department, whose job it is to generate buzz and a “click this!!” mentality. And it works! Every time we get sucked in and think something said on those sites will have some correlation to what happens on the show. And that’s not the case. We don’t even know if the PR team knows what will happen in the episodes before they post. For all we know, they have no clue. Somehow we’ve forgotten they are two separate things and the creators need to be reminded of this as well. Because looking back through the social media posts is painful. And it didn’t need to be that way.  

The show itself has actually managed to do the one thing that BtVS could not, and that is to keep their world in tact. After everything that has happened to Oz and Ed, through it all, they have remained in character. The world hasn’t shifted out from under them, nor us. They are still who they’ve always been at their core. Even Ed, who is searching for his identify, has been handled in a way that stays true to his Gotham characterization.

There is a lot that can be said about how the story unfolded and how it didn’t go the way we wanted. Many sectors of the fandom are legitimately angry. Many of us, myself included, were casual viewers until this ship jumped off the screen at us. And it wasn’t social media that sucked us in. It was Robin and Cory’s portrayal of these two broken, damaged villains finding each other that spoke to us. Knowing that even if you are “irredeemable”, there is still someone out there for you. That there truly is a “lid for every pot”. It was that connection we fell in love with, romance or not. And now this beautiful friendship seems to have been ruined for little to no payoff. But at least the story line still all made some kind of sense. I think I’ll be more upset at this point over a lack of explanation for Isabella than anything else.

And the reason why, is that the show hasn’t broken my trust. Their social media PR team can kiss my ass. But the show stayed true to itself and therefore us. It made Oswald canonically gay but never made him into someone he’s not nor made him do things he’d never conceive of. And poor Edward, who falls so easily and simply can’t help himself at times, continued his decent into madness and villainy. Oswald and Edward remained Oswald and Edward, much to Ed’s consternation.

The show makes it clear that this isn’t “the real world” pretty much on an episodic basis. “This is Gotham” isn’t just a catchphrase, it’s a way of life for these characters. It’s how the show is able to make us care about serial killers and psychopaths that we would run from if we met in “the real world”. Their world is filled with color and flair and the characters continue to reflect that. For all of the show’s purported faults in the story line this season, failure to understand their characterizations isn’t one of them. They have not committed the ultimate sin. At least not yet, not in my eyes. I guess we will see what the finale and S4 holds for us.