#mainly because i think that relationship is more explored in later books and i havent read those yet

[sad-scarred-sassy]

I think the rejected bond is a red herring from SJM, E/riels like to say Elain has to have her own choice and reject the bond, but the thing is to make a decision like that and be 100% sure, you first need to FIND OUT if you are indeed not compatible, and we havent had that yet.

In fact, their relationship has been stagnant, waiting to hit a breaking point. Why would SJM make Elain explore a relationship with Lucien in her own book just to reject him and go to Az, more importantly, why hasnt she done it already?

I picture the scenario that if she was to reject the bond, she could have already slowly let Lucien in, then have the IC acknowledge how incompatible they are and how numb/uncertain Elain is WHILE GETTING TO KNOW LUCIEN. Big emphasis on that.

This would create a stepping point into her rejecting the bond later, coming in terms with her decision, having to sort out her attraction to Az, and it even would have made an ACTUAL forbidden love trope.

What we currently have is the exact opposite of that, Elain trying to fit into the NC (instead of the scenario of trying to fit into a relationship with Lucien in the first example) and people pointing out that she is so out of place. (Personally i believe Elain is not yet healed and is masking her trauma with her newfound boldness, mainly because if she will be a fmc we need to see her healing ON PAPER)

The other thing (amongst so many) that strays me from believing she will reject the bond is that Lucien has not made ONE MISTAKE during this whole thing. He has not pushed her, has not implied she is owed to him or behaved that way, has only behaved like a gentleman, considering he is ALSO suffering the effects of an unexpected mating bond. He doesnt even shower her with gifts as some people like to see it, he has literally given her ONE GIFT per year, and they’re amazing gifts for her. SJM could have EASILY made him make mistakes with Elain (I dont think hybern was his fault even though he FEELS GUILTY anyway, which make for an amazing tension point tbh). All of this and the fact that he is CANONICALLY suffering just would not be logical on a literary standpoint if she were to reject him at the end.

This is long but I wanted to put my thoughts on this as I have JUST finished the series and they’re all I think about.

“If Lucien loved Jesminda so much that he believed she was his mate,

.......until he found out Elain is his mate,

.....does it seem realistic that he could love someone else more than that?”

Yes, because a mating bond has nothing to do with mutual attraction, romantic compatibility, or love.

Take for example, Tamlin’s parents, or even Rhysand’s parents. Mates, but no love.

And, I find it interesting that you are convinced elucien will be endgame because they don’t talk, and are uncomfortable around one another (what you refer to as “creating tension”, as SJM did with all other endgame couples). Yet, have you considered that SJM has set things up this way, because she plans for Elain to reject the bond…?

I mean think about it: if SJM is setting the stage for a failed mating bond between Elain and Lucien, then there needs to be reasons present as to why Elain (or Lucien) would reject the bond - reasons we have seen in the text already (ie. Elain stating that a mating bond does not mean she needs to return Lucien’s affections, or even Elain having feelings for someone else). If SJM is indeed going down this route, then it makes no sense that Elain and Lucien would be friendly with one another, fond of one another, or even sharing moments in the story together and growing closer… because then what reason would SJM have to break apart their mating bond, when they otherwise so clearly get along with each other? (And perhaps this is exactly why we haven’t seen any such moments between Elain and Lucien…)

So, there’s just as much foundation for a rejected mating bond between Elain and Lucien, as there is for an accepted one.

I disagree.

Especially when you take into account that your point only addresses mating bonds where my post was looking at the entire picture.

Even if Elain and Lucien do not accept their mating bond, SJM could not realistically create a third option for Lucien that would trump what he had with Jesminda.

Lucien loved Jesminda (LI # 1) so much he thought she WAS his actual mate. So where does that leave a third female (LI #3) who couldn't be his mate because he already knows Elain is? It doesn't really make sense for SJM to give Lucien a new love interest then claim, "Lucien loves LI #3 so much that SHE could be his mate", she's already created that narrative with Jesminda. And he could never love her so much that he thinks she might be his mate since he'll always know Elain is his mate despite a rejected bond.

At that point, it's not about Elain and Lucien so much as Lucien not being able to love another female as much as he loved Jesminda and I've got to say it's a bit anti-climatic in a fantasy romance novel to think, "I love her as much as I loved Jesminda except.... I thought Jesminda was my mate and I know this new person isn't". The only thing that can trump Lucien's love for Jesminda (from a literary standpoint) is for him to actually fall in love with his mate and she him because not only does he then love Elain as much as he loved Jesminda but they have the added bonus of actually being mates.

Also, Tamlin's mother DID love his father:

"My mother - she loved my father deeply. Too deeply"

It doesn't matter that his father was a "tyrant", she still loved him anyway.

And the reason Rhys's parents were not given a matched mating bond is:

"My father and my mother, despite being mates, were wrong for each other. My father was cold and calculating, and could be vicious, as he had been trained since birth." (I'm going to stop right here because out of Lucien and Az, who is "vicious and cold"? I surely hope you're not going to tell me it's Lucien). "My mother was soft and fiery and beloved by everyone she met. She hated him after a time" (who is soft and beloved by everyone? In ACOTAR we're told "she had come alive here, and her joy was infectious. There wasn't a server or gardener who didn't smile at her and even the brusque head cook found excuses to bring her plates of cookies and tarts at various points in the day. I marveled at it, - actually that those years of poverty hadn't stripped away that light from Elain". And who showed us a little bit of fire in SF when standing up to Nesta?)

E/riels focus so much on the fact that Rhys's parents had a poorly matched mating bond without paying attention to the most important part of it. The WHY they had a poorly matched bond. They were ill fitting because their personalities were too different. Az literally has the personality of Rhys's father and Elain literally has the personality of Rhys's mother, Elain who does not like cruelty. So do you honestly think Lucien, who prefers his words to weapons, who has maintained his cool and never sought out revenge against Graysen or his father or Eris, who is loving and open with his emotions, is a better fit for Elain? Or do you think Az, who is full of rage and anger and aggression, who starts fights and disobeys orders and TORTURES people, is a fit for her?

People need to stop focusing on the bond and start focusing on the personalities of the characters which is the ONLY thing that matters when you're trying to figure out who is well suited.

And you're right, a mating bond has nothing to do with love but from what the author herself has told us, if a couple has love and they also share a mating bond, it is the most rare and special of pairings.

"Not an indication of true, paired souls." A smile at me - at the rareness, perhaps of what we had."

That's my entire point. Lucien had love with Jesminda and it was real and beautiful. But if Lucien and Elain end up having love AND a mating bond (which you're fooling yourself if you think isn't still a possibility when you consider the author who is writing these books), it's the only thing that can surpass what he felt for Jesminda.

And of course I've considered if Elain will reject the bond, I don't think someone can write a well thought out post focusing on only one possibility, but with all the clues and all the patterns I've seen in SJMs writing, I don't see it as likely. Are you choosing to ignore that Nesta pushed Cassian away and avoided him too? Even though she later tells us she knew from the start that he had a power over her and that scared her?

Elucien's not considering that Elain might reject the bond isn't the problem, we all have but our logic has pointed us in the direction that they are still endgame.

The problem in the fandom is that E/riels are stubbornly refusing to consider that E/riel was always meant to be a rebound as both Elain and Az learned to let go of Graysen and Mor. A stepping stone for them both in order to continue on to end up with the person who is actually right for them. I'd much rather Elain end up with the male who has been nothing but amazing towards her, despite her current state of uncertainty, than the male who hasn't thought of her beyond his sexual fantasies. I'd much rather have her eventually realize how well matched she and Lucien are than see her end up with a male who thinks she's going to be tainted by his dirty, bad man self and doesn't think she can handle the darkness of the Trove.

[a-stitch-in-time-and-space]

Various Feelings About ASIT Part 6: Doctors (and other lovers) Part 2 of 2

What I'm mainly trying to do in this part is reconcile what the book is – a love confession to Bashir – with what is in the text – the opening overtures to his romantic relationship with Parmak.

So I'm going to use a little bit of looking at Parmak as a probable reason why Bashir might've taken awhile to get to Cardassia after reading that novel:

Parmak and Bashir are comparable in the same way I feel Pythas and Palandine are comparable. The latter shared their names with him at Bamarren, helped train some of his later most recognisable (often unhealthily utilised) traits, are too caught up on the system themselves to be good for him and vice versa. The former challenge his ways of thinking, have witnessed parts of his worst self and offered forgiveness without a catch, are incredibly kind and giving, make him do better simply by existing as they do.

There are too many quotes and a half about Garak lamenting the change in his and Bashir's relationship. A couple of them seem to indicate Bashir's own awareness, at least of the fact that they don't communicate as easily as they used to, but one thing the book never gives us (for obvious reasons being this is Garak's pov) is Bashir's reasons for drawing away.

[Excerpt fromt the book: Bashir smiled and accepted the invitation. I led the way back into the shop, and while I coaxed two teas - one red lead and one Earl Grey - from my ancient replicator in the back, the doctor strolled about as if he were genuinely interested in the various sartorial displays. He was clearly ill at ease, and I wondered how the gulf between us had widened to such an extent. I was determined to narrow it.]

I can (and do) hypothesise and headcanon, but I'd like to know if any other novels give us more perspective – perhaps one of Una Mccormack's, but that's awhile down the road for me yet.  In any case, Bashir and Garak drift apart. I wonder whether it looks different from Bashir's pov – does he think it was Garak pulling away because of the Cardassian conflict – they have an argument about it earlier on, in which Bashir unwittingly is rude about their society and Garak lashes out at him – or did he just have some sense of perhaps tension between them post-wire, that he misread as a wish on Garak's part wishing for him not to be around as often. How much has to do with his own PTSD (unexplored on the show and, so far, in subsequent books)... here is where I go into my own territory and think that the person he had the most trouble hiding his emotions from was Garak and maybe it was subconsciously easier to stay away from him, lest he be honest towards someone who wasn't being honest back (or he had no idea how to process his crush, so ran away from it, which, mood).

[”I’m keeping you from your business,” Bashir stood up. “I won’t take up any more of your time.” “I’m pleased you stopped by.” I was about to escort him to the door. “No, you’re not,” he said quietly. “Excuse me?” “Garak, I come from a culture that has perfected the ‘stiff upper lip,’ he explained with the same faint smile. “What does that mean?” It was a genuine question; there was a change in his attitude. “It means that we never complain, never admit to our feelings, never ask for help. It’s just not done,” Bashir explained. “And those people who ‘lack character’ and insist on airing their needs - especially in public - are subject to ridivule... and worse. Does that sound familiar?” “Perhaps,” I replied softly. “But I’m also a doctor, Garak. And I know which group of people suffers the most. I really won’t take up any more of your time.” He extended his hand, which he rarely did, and I took it. “Thank you for the tea.” He turned and went out the door. I stood there for a long moment, deeply upset. I felt trapped within myself, knowing what I had to do to get out but unable even to begin. Yes, Doctor, it does sound familar.]

There's so much of interest to explore in terms of Garak feeling like Bashir abandoned him and then running to another doctor (maybe Bashir thought that Garak had left him in turn – must of stung to think of him with another doctor) – not that I'm calling Parmak a rebound.

[Extract from the book: - be given a new brain. I rather enjoy this peripatetic politicking. It’s something I would never have done on my own. In some respects his is so much like you, Doctor. If I’ve found someone’s opinion insufferably boring, he’ll kindly but sternly lecture me on the value of tolerance.]

They both represent pivotal parts of his healing process: Bashir on Deep Space Nine removes the wire, makes him feel less lonely, quite probably is the main component in his belief in inter-species co-operation, fundamentally changes the way he wishes to live (is the first person outside of the little Circle of Secrecy that knows Tain is his father?), Parmak on Cardassia helps him reconcile with his past, takes the beginnings of political concepts he'd discussed with Bashir and puts them into practise, also literally everything about the fucking Memorial Statues, not to mention that time when Garak fully breaks and he helps him recover, (and Garak tells him freely that Tain is his father).

(also both Bashir and Parmak are horrified by the thought that Tain is Garak's father, which, mood)

Where is the change then? How come Bashir didn't work out and Parmak does? The answer possibly lies in reciprocity – where Garak couldn't offer what Bashir needed in return, he could do that for Parmak. This isn't a judgement, I'd say the problem is that Bashir didn't know what he needed and Garak wasn't open enough to maybe fully be considered someone Bashir could go to (even if both Bashir and Garak might've wished he was), while Parmak is much more grounded in who he is as a person and by the time they meet, so is Garak, because he utilises those lessons he'd learnt from Bashir. Oh the irony.

[Excerpt from book. Parmak asks Garak for advice: “You know, Elim, I’m neither a soldier nor a politician. I’m a doctor.” “I do know that. I also know that we’ve been betrayed by our previous leaders. Our only hope is that men like yourself can offer an alternative.” “But you have the expertise that can... .“Doctor, I have an expertise that comes from survival and compromise. There’s already plenty of that on the other side... and it’s not an alternative that will create a new and lastinf union.” “No, I suppose you’re right,” he conceded.”  “You’re a doctor, yes, and that’s your strength. I’ve learned something about your profession over the past several years. Don’t think like a politician. Think of the planet as a patient barely hanging on to life. Think like a doctor. How would you save this planet?” He considered what I’d said in his careful manner.]

Maybe a good indicator is that Garak never actually directly told Bashir that his first-name was Elim.

And then A Stitch In Time happens and all of those things that no-doubt must've frustrated Bashir to no end that Garak wouldn't share with him are laid bare in their entirety in a way that sounds like he'd love nothing better than to finally pick up where they faltered, with no more lies and secrets... only problem is it sounds like Garak might've found someone else and now it's too late.

[Excerpt. The last lines of the book: It has become my personal totem. I hope that someday you’ll have the opportunity to see it. Nothing would please me more. You’re always welcome, Doctor.]

I would love to ask Andy if I ever meet him if he thinks Bashir would have come to visit after that letter, despite everything that was written subsequently. After all, the last words were an express wish to see him again. Even if just as his friend, I feel like Bashir would've wanted to take him up on that offer...