#louis being in awe

[platoapproved]

— A flaccid full-length play based on nothing other than the superficial observations of the vampire Sam, his meditation on vampiric existence and enduring. — Strange, I remember you racing back from rehearsals to tell me how ambitious the conceit was.

[daftmooncretin]

big bummer that lestat slept through the 60s… like rip king you should have fucked simon and garfunkel

[casualavocados]

We are brothers. It's my job to take care of you— I don't need it. If you are that free, go find Zhang Teng. Or you can go back to the headquarters and take care of our boss.

KISEKI: DEAR TO ME Ep. 04

[fayevalcntine]

The whole framing of Lestat as the sole symbol of patriarchy that fandom is so desperate to put him in doesn't work unless you deliberately ignore how he was also a victim of rape and abuse before he was turned. People want him to be fit into this strict role of "father figure/violent husband/perpetrator" that is only that and not even a whole person, and in doing so they need to push aside the fact that despite being his family's provider, he was also pushed into that role when his father forbid him from joining a monastery or gaining an education that he wanted. Lestat wanted to run away with a theater group as a kid, and actually managed to do so once Gabrielle gave him her blessing and monetary support in order to go to Paris. He didn't always want to be the provider, he was forced into that role and became despondent when he thought he would never get a chance to leave his home.

His new life prior to being turned is pretty much the antithesis to the whole "Lestat is a manly man who would sooner throw up than be compared to a woman" spiel: he lived with another man in Paris while also being an actor, having left his family and "responsibility" to them. The only family member he was ever close to was his mother, all the other male members shunned or ridiculed him. Add onto that the fact that his turning firmly placed him within the role of the damsel/victim: he's kidnapped from his bed by a stranger, taken into a tower and left to rot while being fed on for a week, before then being raped and violently turned all while never even being asked if he would consent to it in any normal circumstance. But you of course have to ignore all of this if you want him to only represent the aggressor/patriarch while Louis is the helpless unhappy matriarch of the family.

My issue isn't that I think Louis isn't a victim, it's that it's not unrealistic for Lestat to be an aggressor/abuser while also displaying traits that aren't regularly assigned to stereotypical depictions of male characters. He's abusive to Claudia while also having been a victim of abuse from his own family. He's not a good maker/teacher, but he also didn't even have one when he was turned. He's the provider/attempted protector of the family and seemed to like being that, while also having run away from his own family prior to this to act in a theater in Paris. He's a rich white man while also being obviously effeminate in public spaces, even to Tom's own bigoted humor.

Like Louis' own complicated story with being his family's benefactor and provider, you can't firmly place Lestat as being one thing or another in terms of gender ideals without deliberately ignoring parts about him that don't fit this. And I don't think it's an absolute necessity, when even in Louis' own story, Lestat isn't stripped of his effeminate mannerisms or behavior while also being the abusive maker/father/lover.

[stomach-rental]

Louis found a toy someone's been sleeping with...how's that line go? Something something, you're my only hope?

[masteredinstinct]

louis not considering himself a practicing catholic / not having faith anymore vs still being obsessed with the aesthetics of the catholic church .

[pynkhues]

I keep thinking about the scene at the opera in season one. Lestat confessing to Louis that his greatest fear is loneliness and Louis sort of fumbling the moment by immediately asking Lestat how many vampires there are in the world. I don’t think Louis intentionally meant to upset Lestat (or perhaps he just wanted to deflect some of the strong emotions of Lestat’s confession) but I can only imagine how that felt to Lestat. His deep insecurity was probably immediately triggered by thoughts that Louis would want to find other vampires. I’m not justifying Lestat’s possessiveness, it’s just another instance of their inability to communicate properly and it drives me crazy. But that’s why it makes for such good drama.

Such good drama, anon. I love how there are those moments in those early episodes where they fundamentally don't actually understand each other. That separation of race, class and sexuality is complicated, but they're also informed entirely by the fact that they're from different eras and different countries, and the contexts of their own traumas and upbringings. The way that leads to that sort of dislocation in their ability to communicate what they need from each other in those early days is so compelling, and it hurts in the best possible way that when they do grow to understand what the other needs, they both so often weaponise it against each other. It's messy and toxic and I love that for me personally, haha.

[teeforhee]

I love that in louis & lestat's big fight at the townhouse in new orleans we see The Unreticent Vampire Louis in all his glory. covered in blood and threatening lestat with the predator that lestat loves, the thing lestat says he saw first in louis. the fact that when pushed far enough, louis becomes an unblinking force of will to destroy anything that has hurt the things he holds to be most important. the part of him that loved killing that man before his death lead to the riot and the fire in Claudia's home. but here we see not only gleeful rejoicing in the little power he has to protect and hurt, but one of those little calculations he makes. he loved lestat, once, and will again, but in this moment he chooses Claudia maybe the most decisively he ever does (and then lestat tried to kill him for it...) because Claudia is more important then. there's something here about him threatening his brother pre vampirism and him threatening lestat here, about how when he was human it was a matter of business interests vs someone he loves. business interests to him meaning survival first, and second a chance at dignity in life and a position in society. and Claudia here I think represents life to Louis. the thing he needs to survive. she wasn't his X, but she was the thing he needed to survive. more than Lestat, Claudia was a future. a chance at a good life. he pressed a knife to his brother's breastbone to preserve his chance at a good life. a straightforward escalation of power and time brings us to the fight at the townhouse. insane that for Lestat the only thing he's thinking about in this moment is being left behind and that Louis doesn't love him The Most. and then he drops him from the sky for it.

[camgoloud]

finally watching the interview with the vampire show as i have been thinking about doing for several months and. boy. that lestat sure can lestat!

[aranostra]

good morning i have woken up thinking about (see: overanalyzing) louis saying during their argument that armand forgot he had a dick while he was leading the paris coven pre-theatre. like what conversation did they have about this which led this line being in the middle of all the really hurtful things they're saying to each other.

[13eyond13]

.

[katkitpaddywick]

these were originally tags i made on a rb'd post but i want them to be seen because there is Too Much nuance-less armand hatred flinging around in the iwtv tag for my liking

i honestly believe at this point that the trial and armand being "unable to prevent" claudia's death was another case of his self-ingrained false helplessness - i think there's a very good chance armand BELIEVED he couldn't have stopped it.

was that belief reinforced over 70 years of telling himself that since to alleviate responsibility? perhaps! was that belief impacted by the fact he really didn't care for claudia all that much? almost definitely! but i think he was complicit as opposed to actively masterminding

he prefers to feel the victim because it's a familiar (dare i say comfortable) place for him to be with his specific brand of trauma

that said i do think he was absolutely lying about claudia's death that louis didn't see - making it sound more noble than it was so louis would be less distressed about it. 'i protect his happiness' etc. etc.

[lumiereandcogsworth]

heyyyyyyy hey wait I forgot I follow up on this, you mentioned there was tea regarding Adam’s dad and his first wife 👁️ is that something you’re willing to share bc I am all ears

ahhhh yes yes yes. my LORE!!!!!!! i am absolutely happy to spill that tea. i did indeed mention here that adam is the product of his father’s second wife, not his first. so let me divulge all the stuff that went down before adam came around!!

so, first, some backstory on louis, adam’s father. he was his father, king antoine’s, firstborn. four years later, he has a brother named adrien. adrien dies of illness around age five, and young louis is devastated, but his father is tough and hard and tells his son to buck up! crying is for the ladies. a few years later, louis’s mother, anne michelle, also dies. louis doesn’t cope well with this at all, but he’s so scared of his abusive father that he hides his feelings once again. soon, king antoine remarries. he and his new wife have a daughter, and they name her genevieve after her mother. they entirely dote on genevieve, completely neglecting louis, leaving him to his own devices. he becomes miserable and cruel, and an entirely reckless young man.

when prince louis is 24, king antoine has a health scare that causes him concern. he fears he may not live much longer, and he sees that his son is in no place to take the throne, should he die. so, he arranges for his reckless son to marry an upstanding young lady, to ensure that louis could become king at the moment of antoine’s passing. louis is less than thrilled about his bride, but when they meet on their wedding day, there is actually a spark between them. her name is agnès claudine marie. she was chosen because their marriage would be politically advantageous, as well as look very perfect to the public eye. louis was all ready to loathe this new wife of his. but he just… didn’t.

agnès was firey and stood her ground. she challenged him constantly and louis was pretty shocked by it. (but also… turned on by it as well.) louis was still a very shitty person, like, agnès did Not make him a better man. but they sort of got along in their own twisted way. they appeared a perfect, prim and proper couple to the public eye, but behind closed doors they were very just… toxic and messy. and what made matters worse was that king antoine died shortly after they were married, so louis had to grapple with his father’s death (sprouting the classic, complicated grief that comes along with losing an abusive father), and handle being king, all while never being mentally or emotionally prepared for it, nor having anyone to lean on in the process. it’s ROUGH.

louis had such a quick temper and was insanely jealous. he got pissed at agnès for even so much as talking to another man at a party, even if he was right there by her side. after the parties would end, he’d throw things and break things and scream at her and she’d scream right back, bullying him just as much as he berated her. these arguments almost always ended in ridiculously hot sex. which is funny and i don’t know why i feel the need to mention it but. as a fake historian it’s my duty to share all fake facts. anyway.

eventually, louis and agnès had a daughter. they named her claudine. louis doesn’t feel MUCH about this, as he very much needs a son to be his heir, but he does care enough about agnès to not completely despise his daughter. he’s a pretty indifferent father at this point. although i’m sure he always made claudine feel fairly useless, just for being a girl.

about six years later, agnès became pregnant with their second child. tragedy struck, however, when she died in childbirth. she delivered a boy, but he did not live longer than a day.

THIS is really the turning point where louis goes from bad to the absolute worst. it’s all buried and complicated inside him but he’s truly devastated by agnès’s death. she was always so alive with passion he just never expected to lose her. and the fact that he loses their son, HIS SON, within a day, it just breaks him for good. he goes from awful to downright ruthless. he grows more wicked toward his daughter, seeing too much of her mother in her and blaming her for it. blaming her too, for not being his much-needed male heir. he also becomes a terror in his court, and in general just a horrible person to be around.

unfortunately at this point, the psychological damage that has been done to him just really causes him to spiral out of control. he’s blinded by unprocessed grief and unfounded rage. and the people are in an uproar! who will be their heir! where is the dauphin of france!! all this just makes him desperate to find another wife to give him a male heir. it’s all he cares about now. so, less than a year later, louis found someone. it was similar to prologue adam’s parties where the villages and towns were taxed to send all their maidens. and renée elizabeth aubert was the only daughter of five children. her parents OF COURSE wanted to give her the opportunity to marry THE KING!

and… it worked. louis saw her and found her to be beautiful. (oh, shall i mention here that he’s 30 and she’s 17?) renée wasn’t as tenacious as agnès but she was gorgeous and held her head high. she intrigued him. (and her mentioning that she had four brothers was definitely a factor for louis.) so, he courted her and married her swiftly.

renée settled into her new life as queen. louis distracted and enticed her with the finest clothes and jewelry, making her feel so very adored. she tried to get along with her step-daughter, claudine, who was around 7 years old at this point, but poor princess claudine was so traumatized from losing her mother and from louis’s abuse, so she didn’t really want to connect much with renée. so, claudine spend the vast majority of her time with her governess, who was basically raising her fully at that point.

soon, renée became pregnant, and successfully delivered a boy! huzzah!! adam is here!!

for a few years, things carry on. louis grows more twisted and disinterested in his wife and children. he hardly sees claudine, and he’s disappointed in adam thus far. (adam didn’t start speaking or walking until he was like 2-3, so louis was convinced he was just “stupid” and they all got worried he was possibly deaf. but renée knew her boy wasn’t deaf or stupid, because she actually spent time with him and could see that his mind just worked differently. and he always looked up at her when she called his name.) regardless, louis was also getting increasingly frustrated with renée, because she kept miscarrying pregnancies. (i think giving birth to adam very nearly killed her, and left damage that just made carrying any future pregnancy to full term impossible.) so, louis was now stuck with a useless daughter and a worthless son and a dysfunctional wife. and he made sure they all knew it! he continued to drink and be abusive. claudine sort of gets out of it, eventually going to live in paris for private tutoring and finishing school.

but! claudine would still come home for christmas, and other events. well, approaching one christmas, louis and renée had been away on a trip for diplomatic reasons. on the trip, renée had caught some sort of illness. when they returned, they kept adam away from her (for fear that the heir would catch it) but unfortunately, princess claudine was there, and caught the illness. renée recovered in a couple of weeks. the princess, however, died. she was 12 years old.

adam was 4, and doesn’t really have any memories of his sister claudine. especially since they didn’t really grow up under the same roof. but anyway, louis is just angered by yet ANOTHER death in this godforsaken family of his. and he, despite caring very little for claudine, IS saddened because she WAS his last piece of agnès. he decided to blame renée, since she’s the one who brought the illness home.

well. time carries on. some years later, when adam is nine and a half, he loses his mother, queen renée, to illness as well. he’s left alone with his father, and you know how the story goes…

anyway my take is that the de beaumont family is quite literally cursed by death and for generations they’re just plagued to lose people but Just Enough survive to maintain the family line. and adam, breaking his own separate curse by the enchantress, does then, in turn, break the beaumont family death curse as well. because true love conquers ALL. thank you 💙

[the-woman-upstairs]

I support everyone’s right to read whatever nasty smut they want, but I see some of these dark romance books that get popular and I can’t help but pass severe judgement on them. Not because they’re “too dark” or “all smut and no plot” but because they’re either so poorly written you’d think ChatGP was the author or they fail to commit to the bit of their purported genre.

Much like the Joker bemoaning the state of crime in Gotham, I just want a better class of book for people.

[fayevalcntine]

good luck now that you've kicked the hornet nest because people who adhere to "louis is basically a woman" meta are particularly rabid and have a tendency to harass anyone who disagrees with them. interestingly you'll also notice their only comeback is to claim the only alternative viewpoint is "lestat as mother" even when nobody said that. as though a relationship between two men must entail one being the "woman." of course ultimately you need only glance briefly at the loustat ao3 tag to realize that this argument is by and large nothing more than justification of feminization fetish in disguise. most of this analysis is blatantly not in good faith

I'll be honest I'm surprised you got right down to the point with this message anrkfje. But I appreciate it. And yeah some of the various "lestat is mother" memes that I've seen are more often in the vein of "evil stepmother", which honestly the show doesn't even directly argue against when you have him cartoonishly take off the record player needle in episode 5 or arguing that Claudia is trying to steal Louis away from him. The latter in particular just reminds me of how various women irl have noted that their female relatives directly thought of them as threats for their men's attention even when they were just children. But as I said, this doesn't negate that Lestat is still her father who abuses her, and given how so much of the focus is placed on that throughout episode 6.

[justsaysomethingjayj]

I'm new to the show having finally watched season 1, and this is probably a controversial take, but I hope to God that it goes even more off the rails from the source material in the 2022 timeline this upcomig season. In fact, I'd be cool with season 3 with TVL being it for the show. I don't need to delve into any of that nonesense that comes after.