#like....... the jaderose kid... which im NOT getting into

[whamss]

*extremely normal* once again getting all doomer abt hsbc and clenching my fist hard. istg if this team doesn’t give rosemary some degree of good closure i will bite all of their heads off

like. listen. it’s not like i want to doubt them. we haven’t even seen rose or kanaya in either timeline yet since they picked the story back up. but to this day i think it’s insane to me that the only established sapphic relationship in post canon has been turned into a parody of what it was in canon that exists almost exclusively to cause drama. and any sapphic relationship outside of that (‘jaderose’) is purely just to contribute to the drama rosemary is supposedly destined to cause. TO THIS DAY i think the choice to make rose cheat on kanaya is vile, esp when meat rosemary was already as messy as it was (and for the record, i think meat rosemary is good drama. candy rosemary is pointless drama that completely undermines not just rose’s canon character, but her established characterization In The Epilogues. yk, the thing they’re trying to play off of).

and i don’t want to sit here and say i think candy rosemary should be redeemed, i hope they divorce. i don’t think they should be salvageable as is, at least not easily. even moreso i hope to god that they stop treating kanaya like a sad punching bag who is solely victim to all of rose’s destructive impulses. kanaya has more than the capacity for anger, and more importantly i think kanaya loves herself. i hate to see a story where the one 100% canon lesbian character we have is forced to suffer and sit there looking pretty. i hate to see a story where they basically make kanaya’s entire life revolve around rose, forcing her to watch while she betrays her over and over. kanay was never like that, rosemary was never like that. it sucks that this is what they’ve turned into. i hope kanaya gets to kill people, or at least grow outside of rose. especially in candy, but in meat as well

i think meat rosemary has the potential to still be a good thing, they have some very interesting set up imo, but UGH there’s nothing more annoying than seeing kanaya immediately positioned as like, this sad figure who does nothing but think abt how much she misses her wife while rosebot exists to be nothing but a menace while terezi and dirk establish themselves as characters around her. and maybe i have no reason to, but i worry a lot anyways that we’re going to go into their arcs with this new team and they’re going to continue to discard them and either force kanaya to keep being a background character who watches rose destroy both of their lives, or sideline both of them entirely and position them purely as tools to fuel drama for the omega kids and otherwise act as catalysts for other characters to develop around

post canon in general has an undeniable woman problem. outside of vrissy it feels like the only women who’ve gotten any semblance of establishment as characters are terezi and alt calliope (even this recent update, aradia heavy as it was, had aradia mostly positioned to center some of the issues davebot is going to have to work through. which is fine, i guess, but not encouraging). i want to see this team live up to our hopes and deliver a good product. i’d like this team to treat its women well. i’d like them to treat their sapphics right. i believe that they can, i’m not trying to imply otherwise, but UGHHHH man do i think the old product didn’t set itself up well for this. and im just worried that this new team might not care enough to actually give rosemary (or rose and kanaya individually) anything remotely satisfying

[davekat-sucks]

You want good homestuck ships? Really honestly and truly? Look at the early ships. Look at JohnDave, DaveRose, DaveJade, JohnJade, JadeRose, JohnRose. Sure its friends to lovers, which is a trope. But its a trope for a reason because it happens in real life all of the time. You become friends with your S/O especially around childhood and that friendship grows into romantic feelings. Yes its overdone, but at least when you go this pathway, you have literal evidence for their relationship developing. I dont even LIKE JohnDave, and I could be convinced that they actually had romantic feelings for each other if you showed me the right pesterlogs. I cannot imagine DaveKat. Like I just cant see how these two would end up in a relationship together, they dont even look or act like they even like each other and things like that laundry room kiss seem extremely forced, Davekat is together because the narrative simply wills it and not through natural character progression. Dont want to start with a relationship already established? Thats fine, have characters meet for the first time and develop over time. Early Rosemary, Spiderbreath, DaveRezi, JadeKat. The Patron troll ships were interesting because both parties had to talk and learn about each other and gradually form a relationship. Early Rosemary was actually goddamn readable and you could feasibly see this badass witch that wanted to break all the rules of sburb fall in love with this incessant mom friend. The pieces were all there, they were just put together wrong. I mean, fuck my mans John "Goddamn Chad" Egbert is out here with a harem of potential pairings, that he actually developed organically. Sure, he was already friends with Jade and Rose. But what about Vriska, or Terezi or Roxy? Each of these girls were given a fair chunk of screentime for John to get to know each of them and they him. I mean, fuck, you could even argue he has a better relationship with Karkat then Dave does, because I can believe that John actually LIKES Karkat (Im not a homosexual conversation aside) The ships that were never meant to be have more believe ability, more evidence and are quite frankly much more fun then the canon borefests we ended up with. And when they intentionally try to write the ship out, its some of the worst writing Hussie has ever done, but when he doesnt give a shit, its some of the best.

Everything you say here does ring true all the way. Preach it!

Especially John Gigachad Egbert. Fuck fans who call him boring. He is the true main character.

Ships centered around only just the human kids are the best. Beta Kids should have been the main focus of the Homestuck series. Trolls were a fucking mistake, as the saying goes. Maybe Hussie had intentions of making a canon couple for a few in the early acts. Such as Dave and Jade getting closer, if only because Dave is just another partial self-insert of himself and rumors that Jade was based on someone Hussie knew and had a crush on. I say the writing for that romance were at least tame compared to the shitfest we got now.

[secondlastk]

can NOT believe how correct the davekats were

[macklives]

i dont technically hardcore ship kids buuuut i will say “fuck thats hecking cute” to any and all pairings and join in on the fun wholesome content. for example, if you give me fanart, give me fics, give me headcanons, then im already sold on how adorable that specific pairing will be bc theres now some quality content to explore. as long as its not toxic, disgusting or impractical.

god okay, get motherfucking ready guys.

now, i may rant a bit on the matter to further explain my point of view on shipping in this comic and how i will go around it lol. sorry for the long note. there’s a tldr at the end.

honestly, idc who gets together, bc i just want the kids to be happy and if the pairing is happy together, thats all that matters to me. i just dont like taking shipping to the extreme, yknow. (which means having nsfw stuff for kids and flipping out if one ship is canon when another really should be. similar to many other fandoms who have those problems and i just.. dont get why?) anyways, thats not to say i will freak out if a cute pairing of mine becomes canon and especially if the rep is nice. and honestly? ill probably freak out for any canon ship as long as its healthy and theyre both happy - as ive mentioned. keep in mind im still a fan lmao, i will prob participate in the recurring ship talk and discourse bc ugh it can be so fucking cute.

anyways, regarding what we have now, i honestly like all pairings atm (obviously between the kids only and not some cursed ones ive heard about which i refuse to get into). all their interactions are so unique and cute and quite adorable. davejade is wholesome. johnrose is valid. i also like jaderose, daverose and johndave. which technically is almost every possible pairing lmfao. sometimes my opinion can vary, sometimes things could happen to make my view on that specific pairing to change. and sometimes new people come into the picture which allows me to explore more potential candidates that i think would be better for that characters rather than just having a ship to progress the plot further. if that makes sense. it always depends, doesnt it? (so keep in mind you can ask me if i ever have changed my opinion on a specific ship, character, ect in the future)

and of course, there’s a big difference between who i think are going to get together and who i wouldnt mind getting together despite canonical evidence that it wont happen. which i wont get into unless yall want me to talk about in depth who likes who and how it will probably impact the relationships of the characters vs how it should be.. well, not “fixed”, but what could be another alternative if a specific relationship seems to have its downfalls. 

however, i doubt there’s going to be any “endgame” ships bc homestuck is more prone to story telling than romance. it’s a webcomic for plot and probable character growth rather than making people’s ships come true. meaning shipping is a concept that andrew will give you, and he will give you all types of interaction so you’re free to ship what you want. however, he’ll leave it open without giving us an ultimate pairing. which is where i think this comic will go. i may be wrong. but it seems the most likely situation.

so shipping is all fun and games but things happen, not everything becomes canon and even if i have theories on future relationships, i will only analyze what we were given and not necessarily based on non-canonical evidence. so as much as i like crackships (and boy do i have fun in crackships, lets be real), because this is a liveblog, i wont be able to get into depth with false claims on a ship if there’s literally nothing to go on. however, pls expect joke ships to happen. if i say cake #42 wants to be with john’s fake arms, so be it. that was a fun time on the discord, man. i love joking around but then again, they are just jokes. im not actually shipping them. its similar to how i view dave and AT. they got married duh. yet thats a joke. something i will bring up again, but that never means im serious about it. (besides imp soap opera. thats becoming massively real now, isnt it. a liveblog inside joke that got way out of hand and is now canon.)

anyways, romance is a nice bonus treat for everyone as they read a webcomic which is not centered around it. and of course ill analyse the possibilities of what we could get and how characters will go through it based on their personalities and past experiences, but i dont think itll become a main part of homestuck as of now. perhaps something.. could happen in the future? and ill keep my hopes of some pairings getting together. but, overall, i will be happy with whatever we get and i refuse to bitch about how some ship is better than the other and be mad at homestuck in its entirety. because andy here is not trying to portray a romcom, he’s making an actual story.

wow, i kind of went off a little on what you were trying to ask in the first place, but i feel this was a nice place to get that out there and explain how ill perceive shipping in homestuck. all so i wont have to explain this for the future when characters potentially start getting together. which is to say, ill enjoy shipping characters on my hs experience, hell, ill even participate in it, but they are 13 and i have my limits.

cool. i feel like i just wrote a philosophy book.

tldr; shipping is a nice gateway in a fandom, i like pretty much anything as long as its not toxic and theyre happy together. expect character/relationship analyses in the future. 

[sadghostdyke]

opinions on the human kids

to accompany the 'fight me page'

june

thoughts: on the one hand Generic protagonist kid (which, uh, obvious) but like on the other hand june is so unbelievably kind and sweet and sees the best in literally everyone no matter what- but she doesn't let them hurt others even though she knows that. i really respect that because it's so easy to think 'well i can see the good in them and i believe in that good so i'll let them do what they want to do because good intentions' or 'theyre flawed therefore i cant trust or love them' but june sees both the good and the bad and acts accordingly. also she's so messed up from Timeline Trauma and thats really interesting to me because like june has this whole world that he saw destroyed and even though he's got his friends back they're not the same friends, theyre different because of what happened to them... wow pain

ships i support: im very very fond of junejasprose! its just adorable and i think theyd love each other a lot >..< and juneroxy and junerose is also super cute

hcs: trans june egbert who uses she/her and bun/buns pronouns. primary race hc is taiwanese + brazilian. in any case i Cannot hc the prospits as white they just arent im sorry. shes got some VERY bad depression, anxiety, chronic chest pain, + ptsd. shes chubby and a little taller than average. she grows her hair out a lot and its messy.... soft

rose

thoughts: i would 100% die for rose lalonde holy SHIT. i cant even really capture my love for rose. she's just. So like that? her interest in morbid shit + the occult, her mom relationship, her biting psychologist-based humor..... wow. id die for rose lalonde. also grimdark rose is so so fucking painful. i have so much love for rose lalonde and i 100% believe she's the most powerful character in this goddamn comic. also she's just 100% put together constantly but she never has ANY idea of what she's doing internally and i love her relationship with virtually all girls she's so fucking gay. 

on a more serious note, rose projects this air of outward confidence but she's lying to herself and that fucked her up IMMENSELY in the long term which. HMmmm. she's so goth and so emo and she uses the 'oh edgy teenager' stereotype to hide how much she actually wants death and how awful she feels....  she actually threw herself into the fucking sun and thats valid. rose was so alone and never felt loved in her childhood and her growing to realize others care about her is so. so emotionally resonating. also rose always is ready to cut a bitch regardless of whats happening. rose lalonde canonically murdered guy fieri and rode his body like a surfboard down a waterfall of blood. she did that folks

ships i support: ROSE/KANAYA AS FUCK BABEY because like. their relationship development? rose constantly feeling shy and gay and cute around kanaya despite her outer attitude.... kanaya having gay feelings about this beautiful human girl who shares her sense of humor and compliments her constantly..... both of them believing in the other... rose helping kanaya with her issues re: motherhood and her immediate crushes on girls who are Very bad for her personally and kanaya helping rose with her alcoholism and mother issues... 

but also at the beginning of the comic i was fully invested in jaderose because thats. so sweet and rose is very sweet to jade and they snark a ton. also i love black vrisrose because theyd challenge each other so much and be so competitive and vriska'd get so flustered....it would be vriska's first black relationship (besides vrisrezi lmao) where she doesn't have the upper hand constantly..... oh man i love rose/girl pairings. roserezi is also good because i always think of their shared love for justice and The Right Thing and swapping glasses it'd be so adorable. jaderosekan is naturally very good because ot3s are good. 

ANYWAYS jadevriskanroserezi is endgame. fight me on that.

hcs: rose is a trans butch lesbian and i'll fight you on this lmao. she uses she/her and grim/grims sometimes but mostly she/her... her butchness plays a role in her gender bc shes like, yeah im trans and a girl but i also dont care about femininity, girlness means something beyond pink and pastel and long hair to me; its darkness and joy and candles and kissing other girls.

i have some kin related feels towards her but like, in non-id related content, she's definitely afrochinese or afromexican. she often has dissociative episodes because though she's no longer grimdark, the horrorterrors still left their mark on her- in more ways than mental, also. she has scars that look like tentacles on her skin. she has autism, bpd, depression, anxiety, + ptsd. she's kind of short and wide? not like in a round way like june she's more broad-shouldered and sort of stocky and its very cute but she also has some chub to her. love that girl.

dave

thoughts: hm well what do we have here? a fucking bisexy? a bisexy boy? in my homestuck? seriously though i immediately loved dave because his typing style mirrors mine and we have similar senses of humor and talk too much and use humor as a coping mechanism for our trauma. i love dave's arc so much because hes very much a nonhero, he's never wanted to be a hero, and thats not something he plans on becoming. it's really interesting seeing his character develop because at first it's so obvious that his life is awful and seeing dave so utterly oblivious to the incredible abusiveness of it is so heartbreakingly realistic and when he starts to realize hey what happened to me was wrong and bad thats. wow. wow i love him. 

also he's so kind inherently- dave jokes a lot and is constantly poking fun but it's always very much humor that doesn't hurt others and he is entirely sensitive to the feelings of others. his relationship with terezi, with karkat, with jade... they're all proof of how inherently kind and good dave is. plus im a sucker for sad boys with swords. also i love sbahj and i want to see the movie. plus he killed the juggalo presidents and i (a juggaphobe) think that makes him valid.

ships i support: DAVEKAT. junedave is ok ig but im not that big of a fan (see above) and im so in love with the two of them. davejade is sweet and fluffy but just.... bland to me and im not into it so. daverezi is also cute but again i just don't ? get it? theyd be cute moirails and best friends imo but like. tez is a lesbian and all her relationship with boys have failed. anyways davekat is Important to me because like, they both Hate themselves but they're really good at loving one another and falling in love is a journey for both of them- dave overcoming internalized homophobia + dealing with the aftermath of bro's abuse, and karkat overcoming the abusive nature of alternia n allowing himself to love others.... wow i really. really love them

hcs: obviously a trans bi nonbinary twunk (uses he/they/she pronouns). i have Feelings about dave being like really Attached to masculinity bc the Only way he thinks he can really truly be a man is by throwing himself into being like the men he sees on tv. in doing so he denies his bisexuality + suppresses it bc hes so dysphoric and desperate to be secure in his maleness- in this way hes very different from rose, who is a trans girl but also not all that Invested in femininity because she's a butch lesbian. 

anyways! dave, like rose, is afrochinese or afromexican. he has c-ptsd, anxiety, autism, dissociative episodes, chronic torso pain + LOTS of scars alllll over him. dave is tall and lanky and has bad posture. i love him. 

jade

thoughts: I WOULD DIE FOR JADE HARLEY. jade is the Sweetest, most Loving character and she's also so incredibly powerful and i love her and grimbark jade? WOW uhh. the most. she goes thru trauma and bottles it up and it comes out awful and horrible but she's still incredibly strong under pressure (she took over planning when rose went grimdark and she never backs down esp. later on in the comic around the more... persistent trolls) and i love that... she's secretly a big snarker and she can be really sweet and loving but she also Takes No Shit from rude trolls and her twin brother and she grew up with a gotdamn dog as her guardian which is so sweet and i just love her so much. she also hates herself and is full of self-loathing and shes a fucking pessimist at heart but she doesnt want to be and she bottles up EVERYTHING- she didnt even tell her friends her grandpa was dead. jade is so fucking miserable and im still bitter that her arc was never truly resolved? she's canonically one of the most powerful characters and shes so soft and lonely and depressed and i get !!! thinking about her? jade you were robbed.....

ships i support: jaderose was my first Real jade ship and even though i prefer rosemary jaderose still gets me going because there are so many gotdamn parallels between them- going grimdark especially, the removal of agency... jaderosekan is also cute. im also into jadecallieroxyjane, i think its cute tbh- theyd all bond over trollsonas and love one another a Lot and they'd have a very big garden. im also a fan of jadenep (i was a fan of it even before davepetasprite^2 because cat/dog pairings are cute) and javepetasprite specifically because jade reads as Very trans for me (most of them do i mean they're like. they're alienated teens who are primarily friends with other internet people with weird home situations and they ARENT altright redditors so...) and i think that davepeta would love being with someone else who understands transness. i also like fefjade because eldritch dead fef plus dream jade would be kinda cute tbh!

also i like jadevris because like.... its cute.... and jaderezi who are both ‘manic pixie dream girls’ in lots of other ships and when paired together theyre just Gay.... also jadejasprose! love the idea of jade getting to date her childhood crush, But Now Shes A Lesbian Cat

hcs: trans intersex bisexual girl, she/her and pup/pups! like i said, jade reads as trans to me, and she had crushes on rose AND dave before the game. she's brazilian polynesian in my hcs. she's autistic + has adhd, synesthesia, depression, anxiety, ptsd, and imposter syndrome. she is very Tall and buff and has sharp teef.

jane

thoughts: JANE is the most butch character alive and id die for him.  shes big and fat and valid and she's so sweet. she's a lot like jade but she takes less shit and loves baking and she's So good holy shit. also she's repeatedly hurt by malevolent forces (crocker co) and then repressed by benevolent, well-meaning but still harmful figures (her dad). i really wish that had been expanded on... and i think thats a big reason why she crushes on jake? jane really fears change and thats one of the reasons that (despite jake being really obviously bad for her) she crushes on jake. he's safe, he's inaccessible, nothingll ever REALLY happen, so its fine its fine. that never really got resolved though and im upset by that? i think swamp-wizard has a great meta on how jane's arc was never really completed and im still bitter like jane (like all female characters) deserved better. theres a bunch of good jane meta here and here (that last one also has good jade meta that i love)

ships i support: janeroxycallie!!! they r in love . jane is a butch lesbian and i want her to be happy... janeroxy is Cute and they love each other but theyve also got a lot of history with each other and roxy is so CLEARLY in love with callie that whenever i pair jane & roxy together w/o her its just? wrong? also jane and callie both seem to care about each other a LOT so i love their dynamic. jane and callie being in love and roleplaying together ?? sweethearts. i pretty much ship jane w every girl though honestly he is SUCH a lesbian

hcs: transmasculine butch lesbian definitely! jane's relationship with gender is complicated and messy and intimately related to her identity as a lesbian. she probably uses he/she pronouns. 

obviously since i kin him, race hcs are kinda. Yknow. but outside of id stuff im married to the taiwanese jane hc but black or malaysian jane are also both super cool hcs that ive seen. she has super bad migraines (from crockercorp), as well as dependant personality disorder (something that she struggles with a lot), depression, anxiety, & ptsd. she has/had an eating disorder at one point, but with the help of her friends it's mostly behind her now. i hc her as being short and chubby and very curvy; she's a sweetheart. 

roxy 

thoughts: i love roxy soooooooooo much. to me, roxy is so hyperactive and funnyman-esque all the time to make up for being really obviously messed up in the head. i dont entirely understand ppl talking about how alike rose & roxy are because honestly they .... arent in a lot of ways. rose is pretentious and pseudo-intellectual etc in order to not deal with her self-doubt and other issues, whereas roxy is loud about everything and uses humor to cope with her alcoholism and other issues. they share alcoholism and loud gay dramatics, both of which they took from the other. i actually like talking about strilonde parallels a lot and im gonna do that in another post but suffice it to say that: dirk and rose/dave and roxy are similar in terms of coping mechanisms & internal issues; dave & rose/roxy & dirk are similar in terms of similar/shared life experience; dirk & dave/roxy & rose are similar due to their relationship with one another. 

anyways roxy is clearly designed to be Gay and she's the sweetest. she literally holds the gotdamn alpha kids together. without her the entire team would fucking fall apart because of jake being a total oblivious idiot and dirk being a dumb horse furry and jane doing compulsory heterosexuality. roxy saves the world over and over again and im right there, cheering, alongside calliope and jane and all roxys gfs. also i dont play hiveswap and im not planning on doing so but here's a good post on beta roxy parenting. 

do not SPEAK to me about trans dude roxy. roxy is a transgender lesbian to me and i love her and she is so fucking important to me to be that. im okay with nb transfemme roxy but i am NOT okay with roxy being transmasc in any way shape or form. 

ships i support: JANEROXYCALLIE IM. jane is roxys Childhood Best Friend Crush, the girl that ur like oh shit i had a crush on her once you get over ur compulsory heterosexuality, the first girl u ever get a crush on and also a Lowkey Best Friend Crush but theyre het so you never say anything and calliope is literally roxy's Soulmate (swamp-wizard again has good meta about it here) and jane is also super cute with callie because theyre very sweet externally but also have a spine of steel? roxrezi is also cute! and juneroxy!

hcs: trans femme lesbian!!! she loves skirts and dresses and guns and she uses she/her pronouns. she's afromexican and is very tall and buff. she has dissociative episodes, autism, bpd, anxiety, adhd, depression, and ptsd. sometimes, bc of her voidy powers, her hands will sort of... warp? its super cool

dirk

thoughts: oh wow ok dirk is FUcked in the head like. Uhhhhh wow. idk what to say about him really... like obviously he's kinda manipulative and not healthy but also hes clearly trying to stop that from being a problem (w/ mixed results). hes like rose a lot but wayy more aware of his problems. also hes got a pd just saying tbh. 

a lot of what i love about dirk comes from how dirk is a self-insert of the highest order; smart, builds robots, survives alone for years, flashstepping... but also is innately aware of himself. he looks at himself as another person; from the outside in. he's at once confident in his skills but also hates himself (see: hal's entire fucking existence). thats. thats. mood. hes like. a fucking MESS dirk ily but like please for once in your life learn not to be a mess

ships i support: dirkjake.. Literally just dirkjake. 

hcs: oh boy where do i start. well first of all dirk is a twink. lets be real with ourselves he's a twink. hes a skinny twink and he's also trans and gay. hes NOT a transphobe what the hellllll

dirk is also han-chinese! he has depression, ptsd, autism, ocd, anxiety, & npd. he tends to be nonverbal a lot of the time and prefers to communicate through text when possible. he has neck pains from getting his head cut off repeatedly. 

jake

thoughts: uh jake is the dumbest gay boy ive ever met.... like. jake has never been able to pick up on a clue EVER in his life. please. please. and he's really. really fucked up in the head. like jake found his grandma (the only person he knew, who loved him) DEAD, at the age of 5 or 6 and then subsequently lived alone on a hell murder island for ten years. no wonder he doesn't pick up on jane's crush; he's bad at reading between the lines because he's never really socially interacted with anyone. he takes action movies as a coping mechanism; he wants to be strong and powerful and adventurous and ugh i just. jake's character is really sad and interesting to me and i love him. there's good meta on him here. also i kinda dont like jake bc his development is oftentimes like. hurtful to others (im looking specifically at post-trickster conversations where roxy is emotionally exhausted and hates herself for relapsing and jake's just going OH IM SO AWFUL I NEVER LISTENED TO JANE when roxy's sitting there going mhm yeah and hes not picking up on the fact that he's doing exactly what he did to jane to roxy now?) 

ships i support: DIRKJAAAAKE hulknaps thank you for this food.

hcs: he's a nonbinary dude and gay. ids as arospec due to the whole dirkjake fiasco. bara motherfucker. i hc him as brazilian polynesian but ive also seen indian hcs that are cool.

hes got adhd, synesthesia, autism, anxiety, depression, + ptsd. he's very stocky and broadchested and its good.