#like... hatred toward trans women has existed for a *long* time not at the fault of trans women either mind you...

[uncanny-tranny]

Do you think that terfs will calm down with hating on trans women once womb transplants are a thing? Because their whole argument is that "trans women aren't women because no womb uwu"

No, because that frankly isn't their whole argument. They don't argue against trans women solely because "no womb," and if womb transplants were a viable and safe measure, that would absolutely not be a good argument to calm their grievances - a transphobe doesn't deal in a genuine care for others, it a disgust response.

Transphobes already have issues with trans women getting FFS, vaginas, and hell, they even have issues with trans women being fem (or masc), even if they say, "we're okay with gender nonconformity!" as a cover. Because, again, it is a disgust response that blooms in response to their own transohobia, it isn't about being able to debate them, really.

Additionally, with my experience of dealing with that kind of extreme reactionary transphobe, they don't fucking care if they're wrong. Like, do you know how many times I've talked to a TERF who tells me I only transition because of misogyny, only to then talk in circles once I say, "misogyny against me had only increased since I have transitioned to male, plus, I never faced misogyny before I transitioned," because again, it isn't about the trans people themselves per se, it's about this viseral disgust response. It is them trying to reason with their discomfort with hatred. That isn't going to go away when trans care expands or becomes even more advanced.

I really want to stress how important it is to not whittle their whole argument down to "[trans women*] don't have wombs," because you will end up missing a lot of trans people who are affected by this type of extreme reactionary transphobia.

[phoenixfire-thewizardgoddess]

In the way you said it

Whenever there’s representation In a manner that can be called queer Your tone and comments turn so nasty Your mouth curls up into a sneer It’s in the tone of your voice as you watch it The characters just interact You don’t openly say what you think But empathy for them you lack.

You openly mock certain groupings Try to engage me as well But it’s not funny the stereotyping Your unsaid sentences manage to tell.

Yes two guys on tv had some pet names But so do the straight couples too Exactly what part of their relationship Is considered taboo to you?

We stopped watching more than one show Because of the relationships within Now forgive me, but we’re not religious So you can’t possibly see it as sin In fact when the words you don’t say The laughter that openly rings About two girls in love or a transperson Are the reason no one tells you things.

According to Mulan its not genitals That define if you are a man It’s got more to do with the moon and storms Than what’s inside of your pants.

In the same vein a woman can be Anything she should so choose But neither or both, intermittently Are an identity, regardless of your views.

The person you like, love or lust after Can be any gender at all It’s really up to the individual involved To make that judgement call.

No they don’t advocate child-abuse Nor what the media will say But two legal adults consenting To be together will not ruin your day.

It’s odd to hear the hatred inspired And experience the lack of empathy felt Towards two or more characters in media Dealing with circumstances dealt.

What’s the difference between the relationships If they are straight or something else? The shows all deal with their complex situations And give sappy scenes designed to make you melt.

Where’s the empathy lost on the way, When the young woman decides on a wife Over some boring love interest dude to order Who was clearly stifling her life?

When the character realises his friends are attractive In a more than No Homo way Why the sudden disinterest in watching or reading Anything that features ‘a gay’?

The thing is it’s all just labels designed to Try to categorise what differs from the norm To be honest, it’s a tad frustrating Orientation is not as simple as filling out a form.

Some people feel nothing romantic Others for multiple persons at once Some people want to go out on a picnic by a lake Or hold hands with their love over lunch.

They are not all heterosexuals, Nor, to be fair, are they all cis But the reality is what’s it your business To feel that you can judge them for this.

It’s so tiring hearing what you say, Even more in the derision of tone As if, by pretending to not be disgusted You are doing ‘all those people’ a boon.

Well the reality is passive-aggression... Tends to be more the latter For if it lent more towards the former You should hardly consider this a matter.

Representation is important to those Who rarely ever see themselves in stories It covers more than orientations And frankly, The Straights™ are just getting boring.

Can we take another white couple Another comedic romance Where the premise is either believes in love And all the chemistry of a dead plant?

Perhaps it would be nice for once To hear the ‘B’ word on the screen For trans, POC and Disabled to have Their own heroes, that is the dream.

It’s so easy to mock and despise those Whose life and barriers you cannot understand To understand the fight that has led to, Two gay characters being  able to hold hands.

Tut if you must, but it’s happening There are shows in the world just for those Whose existences and viewpoints are usually marginalised The age of Baby Boomer draws to a close.

In this society different is frightening Labelled as wrong or obscene How can the haters be so sanctimonious Considering their hands are not clean?

The conservatives voted in a man who Who pays people to kiss his posterior But even compared to his childish ilk Your negative commentary comes across as inferior.

So you don’t like to see two people kissing,  Unless it’s a woman and man, Somehow the merest things are sexualised, When you view two women holding hands.

If a man calls his partner babe, Sweetiepie, Darl or Megatron, The reality is, what is it to you, Take a look at your flaws, reflect, move on.

You don’t want to see it in public, And you question their ability to work in certain occupations Many don’t want to have them near their homes And actively exclude their ‘wrong’ neighbours.

How will that look on your final report, Before the great lord almighty? You know, the guy you always tote out, To sanctimoniously condescend ‘righteously’.

All people are humans created equal It is the society you uphold that picks and chooses Who meets the questionable standards Or normality, and decides based on birth, who loses.

You claim that tolerance is key when, Dealing with anyone falling under ‘those people’ Because in your mind and your manner and words, They cannot possibly be equal.

Some see them as sub-human, Because of orientation, ability or skin But the reality is that the hatred inspires Bands the minorities together as kin.

They find their own spaces, and shows and representations Despite the prejudice that suppresses The evidence of inherent biology, their individuality To choose the narrative of psychological messes.

Perhaps you should date a boy instead, Lesbians often are advised. Is this about not having a father figure? Of gay men, a rhetoric that never tires.

Bisexuals, Aces and the followers of Pan Hear just as many ridiculous ideaologies As if the only conceptual path In life, is monosexual monotony.

We ask of the ace what is wrong with them, To not want certain contact or touch, Always ‘jokingly’ stating, That without sex what is the use of love?

The Pan, Poly, Bisexuals prefer certain people Sometimes two or more at a singular time It does not automatically assume adultery, And yet the association is always put to mind.

You laugh aloud at the very concept, Of a woman with breasts, and a phallus instead Of what you think should perhaps be, Situated between her legs.

Likewise when a young man has to wear A binder to suppress his chest, There’s always someone out there who dares Ask why ‘she’ is not in a dress.

Have you ever considered it is not, Nor ever really has had anything to do With your thoughts or beliefs, not your business It is their lives, and does not include you?

From the generation that endorsed a series Filled with abuse and assault Don’t blame the gays for your follies 50Shades was the heteros’ fault.

To be blunt, it is just so tiring To see and hear people of all types demeaned Because the ideology of difference disconcerts you And therefore must be obscene.

The fact is your words do unseen damage To people you pass everyday Mockery and condemnation build walls And turn friends and family away.

How could they tell someone like you, The person with a poisoned tongue That they fit the categories of those you condemn Your words wound both old and young. It is always a joke, a laugh, lighten up now ‘You need to stop being so severe, You and your silly internet culture, Where everyone thinks they’re ‘queer’!’

Back in your day... you start with, As young people more informed roll their eyes You claim that ‘x’ never existed Never considering they did, in disguise.

Even now people cannot be open, Holding hands in public tends to invite Someone lewd to proposition or harass them Tongues wag if you dare stay the night.

So of course historical figures, then and now, From Achilles to Sappho, were very open In fact you’ll find that their lives were revised By the straight archaeologists who cloaked them.

People have been people for a long time, It didn’t overtly matter to many If your husband or wife, or mate for life Wore a toga, dress or barely any.

Recently people have gotten hung up Moreso than ever before About which people you SHOULD be with And it’s really quite the bore.

Men have loved men for forever, Entire societies founded on this ideal And women have loved other women Since before civilisation was real.

Some fall into either category, both at once Or then again neither, these individuals exist And have done so, sucessfully For long enough to do without your ire.

Ancient Egypt buried their people, With great ceremony, purpose and pomp Their transgendered persons always honoured correctly, Would you dare to claim they were wrong?

Evidence and history have heroes,  Many of whom have been ‘revised’ For societal consumption as ‘everyday heroes’ Hiding their non-standard husbands and wives.

Look to Hercules and the Gods of Olympus They had a rolicking gay time But dare ask a historian about certain art And they’ll have heterosexualty in mind.

The purpose is to say, here That the reality is, all through history, we existed... Beyond tv and comics and other media It’s not a new fad that we twisted.

So sneer if you must when the two girls kiss, Or put down your book in disgust When the two male characters realise their infatuation Was not with the anticipated one.

But the story and characters are still there, Whether you choose to consume But perhaps consider this instead, livelaughlover They were not created for You.

To see yourself represented, Be it on page or screen As something other than the punchline or villain Feels like a wonderful dream.

It gives a sense of belonging, Normality in a world that blatantly refutes The existence of people outside of a bubble But some media actively salutes it.

An encouragement meant for the groupings Who need to see those people existing at all, The two boys on a date, the transgirl in a promdress Just humans, seeing, doing, being, normal.

So perhaps before you sneer or comment Perhaps before it’s ‘just joking’ Think about why you are acting that way,  Who, in society or family, are you quoting?

Why would you consider this person contemptible Below even basic empathy and compassion When exactly did hatred and bigotry Suddenly rise into high fashion?

They are not the heroes we need, my friend But they are the representation we deserve So let go of your prejudiced ideals They are nothing you need to preserve.

- - - -

I don’t know what this is, but sometimes you hear old people complaining and it’s so tiring...

[usamyzonians]

Duality

Content warning: I’m going to be talking about life experiences that involve homophobia, transphobia, general bigotry and White Feminism.  Though I suppose that last part is redundant.

So my grandmother has been on my mind a lot lately.

We’re getting up to the one year anniversary of her death.  She lived to be in her 90s, so it’s not quite a tragedy.

Thing is, the reason I’ve been thinking of her has more to do with the sort of compartmentalized way I think about my family.

See, what started this whole thing was a not-so-pleasant memory.  I was in the ballpark of 10 and at my grandparents’ and my brother and I were watching Look Who’s Talking.  Complain about our bad taste, but I was 10 and he was 8 and pretty much everyone we knew had seen it.  So ostensibly there’s a problem with us watching a PG-13 movie, but we’d watched worse.  And my grandmother, walking in and out of the room the whole time, was fine with the content.  Until she walked into the room when one of the characters said “lesbian” or some other word that meant lesbian, because I haven’t watched the movie since maybe a couple years after this movie and I don’t really remember.  It wasn’t the first time the term had been used, but when my grandmother heard it, she lost her shit.

I honestly don’t think I’ve ever seen her as mad as when her grandkids heard the word lesbian.

My grandmother was a massive homophobe.  And not in some mild, esoteric sense, in the sense that even the slightest reference to gay people was completely unhinging.  And, in my family, I was encouraged to not fight (this only went one way; one of my aunts had called me a Nazi multiple times for my ‘liberal’ beliefs by the age of 12), so my solution was to avoid the topic.  Actually, I tended to avoid anything even remotely political with my family, because they tended to be close to the polar opposite of me.  My mom and dad were both hippies who were arrested for standing up for civil rights and held all sorts of commie pinko ideals, so that probably insulated my brother and I, but my mother was also the biggest voice of appeasement in my life.

Over the years, my grandmother would make some offhand comments that fell into transphobia, as well.  Thing is, trans individuals weren’t on their radar as much, so I didn’t get as much on that front as their LGB phobia, but I knew it was there.  That’s the environment I grew up in.

I was raised to think of my grandmother as a nice, sweet woman.  And she had all the appearance of it right up until you talked about that one subject.  A subject which probably doesn’t seem so bad to the rest of my family, but impacts me.  The rest of my family weren’t quite so extreme, but there’s quite a few homophobes and transphobes kicking around.  I remember back when their state voted to not change the state constitution to redefine marriage as between one man and one woman, multiple family members freaked out because “the gays are getting everything they want!”

Note that same-sex couples actually didn’t.  Same-sex marriage was not legal in the state, it just hadn’t been rendered further beyond residents’ reach by making it a constitutional proposition.  Admittedly, this is important if you’re LGBT, but it’s nowhere near “getting everything we want.”

When same sex marriage finally became legal, I avoided them for months.  I’m not supposed to fight, but they will take any opportunity to pounce on me and my ‘liberal’ ways.

This wasn’t too hard, as I’d learned to disconnect from my family.  As much as I can think of my family in loving terms despite their bigoted mentality, I think part of the reason I can do that is that I started not being involved with them.  My brother and I have radically different relationships with my family, and this is at least a chunk of why, I suspect.

I don’t know if all my family’s like this.  I’d think, statistically, there’d have to be some other people in my family treat who weren’t total bigots, but I don’t trust them because the pattern leads towards hating at least LGBT people (my family tends towards feminism--white feminism, anyhow, because women of color and lesbians and anyone else who is not them is insignificant--despite skewing towards Fox News on most other subjects).  I have one openly gay family member and any talk about her when she wasn’t present has been horrible.  And I wonder if she even knows that that’s the way they talk, because they’re nice to her face.  Which is the other issue: even if they came off as nice or loving or tolerant or accepting, how can I ever trust people like this when there’s a known history of them saying one thing to a gay person’s face and another behind her back?

This comes to mind quite often for reasons not directly related to my grandmother, but more to my SO.  My family loves Tal.  They’re always welcome at Thanksgiving and Christmas, my mom actively asks about them, we’re supposedly an adorable couple, and even the people who only met Tal at my brother’s wedding have had nice things to say.

Except they think Tal’s my girlfriend and we’re in a completely heterosexual relationship.  And I’m pretty sure there’s no combination of the two of us that translates to a straight couple.  So really, they don’t necessarily love us, but the idea of us in their mind.

It seems like this is part of a larger trend.  The “conservative uncle” is a cliche for a reason.  But--and I’m likely surprising nobody here--it’s really difficult to reconcile the concept of “is a good person” with the concept of “hates people like you, perhaps violently.”

I can superficially hold the idea of my grandmother or my aunt or whoever as a good person, but when I think on it, I no longer can.  These people are full of hate.  Even if they didn’t hate me (or my SO) specifically, they have a blanket hatred of people like me (and my SO).

At the same time, because I am presumed straight and cis (and on both counts, I swear it’s because they are determined to see it), I’ve seen exactly how they conduct themselves towards gay family members, so even if they’re totally awesome to my face, I don’t know that I can ever trust that reaction as genuine.

Kind of makes me wonder how many other LGBT family members I might have who are similarly disposed to not want to deal with this crap.

When my grandmother died, part of me was relieved.  She was the most vitriolic homophobe in my family.  At least, she was the most openly homophobic.  It’s hard to really tell when so many homophobes are “not homophobic, but....”

Even still, I feel bad.  I live in a culture where we’re told to appease the bigots, that it’s just an alternate opinion.  I mean, you can’t hate someone for an alternate opinion, right?  Hate is wrong.  Except, you know, somehow for the people who are actually hating.  I grew up in a family where I was not to get “political” while existing as someone whose life is automatically considered political.  And where family means loving someone who hates you, someone who would deny you rights, or even someone who would do you harm.

This is my normal.  This is the family I grew up with, the only reality I knew.  People who expect love and support unconditionally while spewing bigoted crap and putting conditions on their own reality.  And that’s still entrenched in my mind, decades later.  So I end up feeling bad for having hostile reactions to people who, even if they don’t hate me specifically, hate people like me.

That’s not a good place to be.

Ironically, my grandmother was easiest to deal with, because at least I knew where she stood.  On the other end of that spectrum remains my mother.  I have doubts as to whether or not she’d support her trans daughter, but somewhat worse in my mind is that she has spent decades playing that “apolitical” appeasement card.  Sitting back while her family (and my father’s, to some extent) go on the attack and encouraging the other party to be quiet.

“It takes two to tango,” the logic goes.  Unfortunately, years of dodging my family’s barbs demonstrates this is complete and utter garbage.  It just encourages them to continue attacking.  Because they went unopposed, they got the idea that their conduct was acceptable.

These are the people I’m supposed to love, and it’s my fault if I let pesky things like hate get in the way.

So I generally don’t deal with them.  Since I don’t know who’s actually a bigot under the surface, I tend to not engage any of them.  I literally can’t trust these people, and that’s the funny thing:

They raised me this way.  I am as they made me.

But it goes beyond that, because there’s this idea that ‘if you can’t trust family, who can you trust?’ and since I can’t trust family, well, who can I trust?  I feel borderline paranoid, but I have very good reasons to not trust people and it starts at home.  Granted, I’ve got a long history of people demonstrating they’re not trustworthy outside of my home life, but I had a solid foundation before I really started dealing with the outside world.

This rambled to places I hadn’t particularly intended.  I’ll just end this by saying that the longer I deal with this, the more untenable, toxic, and simply intolerable it is.  I very much resent the way the feelings of bigots are sacrosanct at the expense of...well, in this case, me.  But in general, too.

[theradiodude]

“A statement from Mike Nelson” I'm relieved and thankful to see this. If you're not a MSTie or RiffTrax fan, you probably missed it, but this issue caused a HUGE problem among those of us who are. There's a pretty substantial LGBTQ contingent in the fan base, and for Mike to be involved with a podcast that was putting forth blatantly bigoted ideas and comments toward that community was devastating. That he rejects those ideas and comments and has cut ties with the production will help heal the rift that formed in the past few days. Some may not accept it, but that's their choice to make, and I personally don't fault them for it (not that my opinion really counts on that topic, anyway). MST3K has had some cringy jokes, including about the LGBTQ community, over the years it's existed. For example, there's an odd line, spoken by Mike for one of the male characters in "The Projected Man," when he says "I'm a shemale." It aired at a time when that term was, in the mainstream, socially acceptable -- recall the height of Jerry Springer and Maury Povich's runs on daytime TV and their treatment of trans women. But having seen it well after it was first broadcast, it always struck me as showing that whoever wrote it (there were many writers, and lines got assigned to the three riffers) either didn't know what a transgender woman IS or just thought it was a funny crack regardless. That one, in particular, makes me unconfortable. There's also a whole run in "The Incredibly Strange Creatures..." (there's more to that title, don't make me type it all out) where all three riffers make fun of a dancer for appearing "masculine." She was somewhat plain, but not really masculine in my opinion. But they riffed lines like "she's the most masculine man I've ever seen," and when she does a particularly long stretch with her legs, "that's really testing the tensile strength of the duct tape" (which, admittedly, that last one DOES make me laugh). All that said, I don't know whether or not Mike was the one behind any of those lines, and even if he had been, that was more than twenty years ago, when the general public was NOWHERE NEAR as informed or concerned about the plight of transgender people as they are today -- which, yes, is wrong, but unfortunately, common attitudes dictate what is and is not socially acceptable at any given time. Those attitudes have since changed, especially within the last eight years or so, and in that span of time, I haven't seen or heard anything that would indicate that Mike harbors any hatred for ANYONE. In fact, his work on The Film Crew and RiffTrax has, if anything, shown just the opposite, and even the revival of Mystery Science Theater has made an effort to show the change -- even going so far as to rename Gypsy (which is offensive to the Roma people) to GPC. In light of ALL of that, I can't believe that Mike's apology is anything less than sincere.