#like. & all she has is aegon iii & her ladies at that point

[imaginarianisms]

rhaenyra in the last few months of her life mourning daemon & constantly asking herself why he'd seemingly quite literally rather die than return to her & missing harwin so much because she could never believe he'd turn his back on her.

[darkestspring]

I can't help but think that Senya is so sweet that she would easily be the victim of the court, I mean she always hands out flowers and is kind, I think it would be worse when I'm a teenager, I feel like she would be judged too much by other young ladies, how his relatives would react to this (especially Aegon III, Nyra, Aegon II and Heleana).

none of them react well.

senya is kind but ultimately oblivious, she means well! she wants to be friends with other ladies! she'd never had friends outside of her family (her lady in waiting does not count!) and she might have been too eager or maybe the other ladies were too cautious.

but everyone in court definitely tries to take advantage of senya's kindness and obliviousness, which is why after a certain point, aegon iii goes into full guard dog mode and why its enforced upon izak that he be by senya's side in court at all times. he has a stare that could curdle milk, despite being popular amongst the ladies of the court.

aegon iii reacts the worst actually, he often beats lords who try to take advantage of senya into a pulp as a warning and makes home visits to scare the living shit out of everyone who offends his dear cousin. lords, ladies, it doesn't matter to him as long as they regain their awareness of their standing. they are mere lords and ladies, sheep. senya is a targaryen princess, a dragon. they would never in a million years be on the same standing or superior to senya. but he'll gladly remind them of their place :)

oh, rhaenyra doesn't act well either. nyra is a good queen, she maintains the peace her father did but god, she hates the lord and ladies of the court. always gossiping, always prattling about useless things. senya was being kind to them and they spit in her face, which is why she turns a blind eye to whatever happens next, refuting and denying all accusations and asking that they return with irrefutable proof before accusing a targaryen of such things (she know they won't. one of the things she and daemon though their son was to clean up his own messes and leave no traces.)

aegon ii hates it whenever someone hurts his daughter but to take her kindness and spit in her face? aegon has never considered himself a murderous person before, he's never cared enough to go to such lengths for someone but this is senya, his dauhgter, his sunshine. he'll fucking gut someone is she wants in, which makes him all the more dangerous. but he and helaena focus more on consoling their daughter. he saw the look in his nephew's eyes, that person will either die or be traumatized for life, which is enough for him.

helaena focuses more of consoling her tearful daughter even though she's angry. her daughter was only trying to be kind, to be nice, as she always is, and that kindness was spit upon. helaena wishes she could curse them. let them know what it's like to have your feelings spit upon. her daughter, her kind and lovely daughter should never know such pains.

[atopvisenyashill]

Killing Jaehaera off was completely unnecessary and it would've been better if she was the mother of Aegon III's kids.

I personally would have loved it he had married Jaehaera and Daenaera because I think there's room in the narrative for both girls.

I think the reason George changed it (besides getting invested in the Velaryons as he wrote out the backstory) was because he wanted some sort of commentary on the lasting legacy of the Dance - Aegon usurps his sister and kicks off a whole violent war for the throne, only for his line to end with a mad little girl, and then die off completely. Rhaenyra lets revenge color her actions during the war and adds to the death, misery, and escalation of violence all so her line can descend from her only for the history books to record that they descend from Daemon, and there’s nothing Aegon III can do to change it. In a way, despite everything, the lines of both Rhaenyra and Aegon end with them. This war that claimed the lives of their children, their lovers, their families, was completely fruitless and useless; all that's left at the end is orphans, and history books that will call Aegon and Rhaenyra both usurpers. It's very sad commentary, for sure, but I get why it was so important to George to kill Jaehaera off (to a certain extent). It's just he did it in the most George way possible lmao and it doesn't hit the way I think he intended it to.

But it could have! Which is so frustrating! He could have 100% had them both in the narrative easily - just have Daenaera be a lady of the court and a friend of Jaehaera's! Jaehaera can take in Daenaera as a lady to help smooth things over with that branch of the Velaryons (who are probably still pissed off because Alyn is a bastard and everyone in Westeros hates Baela for doing #HotGirlShit). Jaehaera is mother to Daeron, Baelor, and Daena, and kills herself/is murdered right after Daena is born. I think having a daughter of her own is an interesting trigger for her trauma - like, your husband having the same cursed name as your father who died miserable and alone, with only you for family, and then watching your husband hold your first daughter? More than enough to trigger an episode, and leave it vague as whether she threw herself onto the spikes or someone simply took advantage of her being scared and alone & pushed her.

Maiden’s Day happens and there's a lot of nerves because the last time the King got remarried, the Dance happened. Different circumstances because Aegon has two sons, to be sure, but I'm positive half the realm is thinking "what if he chooses wrong and we get another Otto Hightower." Baela and Rhaena present Aegon’s new bride, then point to the beautiful but quiet, also grieving Daenaera Velaryon, and Aegon just accepts it because he knows Daenaera won’t oppose Jaehaera’s children (they were friends, also Daenaera is now scarred by the violence of Jaehaera’s death). Daenaera is as uninterested in him as he is in her; the twins present a way for him to remarry without forcing him out of his comfort zone (which neither Aegon nor Jaehaera ever liked to be) while backing Daenaera into an offer she can’t refuse. Continuing on the use of traumatized women as pawns, the twins clawing for their own power and relevancy as the Regents, Small Council, and now even Aegon’s sons steal it away from them, a move that is as “girlboss” esque for them as it horrifying for Daenaera. This way, you still get the Blackfyres descending from Jaehaera (and the Greens), you get the Velaryons in there more, you get Maiden's Day and Daenaera.

I think this scenario - where Jaehaera is mother to Daena and the Blackfyres, and Daenaera to the two youngest girls - doesn't make a huge difference in the grand plan, BUT it does make some things more interesting. It adds a really interesting echo from Viserys I and Rhaenyra’s children to Aegon’s - how easily these bonds between half siblings can be turned sour if only their lives are just a bit different. Daena, daughter of Jaehaera, falling to the generational Targaryen curses of dying young, of accidentally kicking off a succession crisis simply because she desired sexual agency. Elaena, daughter of Daenaera, escaping these curses through her politicking, her skill, siding against the nephew she adores and helped raise to try to escape Daena and Jaehaera’s fates. Not to mention having Aegon II’s line end with his daughter, then morph into the usurping Blackfyres is a great narrative choice!

It’s all right there!! The themes!!! It all goes back and back, this family enacting continent destroying violence against each other all for the privilege of sitting on that ugly, spiky chair. But no we get Daenaera the hot six year old instead. SmFh.

[horizon-verizon]

TWOIAF says that Rhaenyra gave birth to Daeron “In the last days of 120 AC” so 31st of december. would take make him a “bastard”? were daemon and rhaenyra already married in march of that year?

I wrote about Aegon III's birth (who I think you meant) and the timeline HERE. And the following was the calendar-"chart" I made for people to track the critical events around Aegon's birth:

A)

B) [in lieu of the tumblr user lady corrine's note]

Rhaenyra died on the 22 day of the 10th month of 130 A.C (pretend this is "October 10, 130 C.E.").

Her son, Aegon the Younger, was 10 years old at the time of her death ("Rhaenyra Overthrown"):

Which means he should have been likely born, in October/the 10th month of 120 A.C./C.E.

Either way, they married way too early and earlier than the customary amount of time after they lost BOTH their lovers and spouses. Whether we're talking about Harwin, Laenor, or Laena; it's ALL of them.

Answer to the question:

Anon, you are wonderful! Before, I forgot abt AWoIaF, but your input has made dating Rhaenyra and Daemon's "affair"-to-conception-of-Aegon III easier. As in my chart-calendar above, all I had were approximations because in F&B they do not actually give exact month/day dates for anything but Laena's death. Aegon could have been born anywhere in the last 2-3 according to F&B, but now we know that yes he'd be born around whatever counts as "December" in Westeros. F& B says: "And thus that dreadful year 120 AC ended as it begun, with a woman laboring in childbirth." which I took as it being a "late November" to "late December". But AWoIaF's "the last days of 120 AC" is much clearer. Or maybe this was the case of a different translation of word senses between me and others?

So again, update!!!:

Aegon was born in the very last few days of 120 A.C., so "December". ("In the last days of 120 AC, she even delivered to him his first son, whom she named Aegon")

Laena dies in the first few days of 120 A.C. ("January")

A healthy, safe pregnancy takes 8-9 months of gestation. Aegon came with no complications or worry--so far that is told in either book.

9 months from "December" is "March"; 8 months is "April".

Daemyra married 4-6 months after both their lovers/spouses died. ("Neither Daemon’s wife nor Rhaenyra’s husband had been dead even half a year [6 months]; to wed again so soon was an insult to their memories, His Grace declared angrily."). It's still approximate.

Laenor must have died **EDIT, after looking in comments -- at most** 4-6 months after Laena.

So Daemyra had to have started sleeping with each other at most 3 months after Laena died or at least 2 months after she died--if not immediately after (perhaps they were even sleeping w/each other while she was alive and that comes with a host of theories of how that would have looked)--and Harwin nor Laenor were dead yet.

THIS IS YOUR ANSWER, ANON. They would HAVE to have been married in the 4th or 5th or 6th months ("April", "May", "June"). They were NOT married in "March"--the use of TWoIaF lets me know the tea!

However...

There is both the difference b/t a conception versus a birth. Births are when children are pushed out the womb and become what we know as the "infant", who will grow into an adult, yada yada. Conception is when we got a fertilized egg/zygote about to develop into a fetus.

Pre-modern medicine knew little to nothing about zygotes nor how to detect them. They have known for millennia, though, that at some point a child begins to grow from the "hidden" womb/woman's body and it is that pregnancy is a vulnerable time for both mother and fetus/child, a delicate process. Medievalesque people like those living in Planetos without the tools or knowledge to detect embryos cannot prove who the father of a child already born is when that question comes up, they are going to be even less able to detect who their dad is before they are born. This is why they place so much importance on girls but especially noble girls and women staying "pure" or "chaste" so they can feel assured and feel that whatever child they carry and birth to will be their husband's, who has a two-fold stake in. It's not a positive test, but a negative one: it's not about detection so much as about removing/whittling down the possible sperm donors to no one but the husband.

This means that any and all fetuses conceived before their parents marry--and if their parents do get married before well before the woman becomes that noticeable or anyone important sees her the birth--will largely be NOT be counted as bastards.

This is another way bastardry reveals itself as nonreal. As a "natural" concept of identity. As a construction based on the happenstance of human behavior, decision, and manipulation, rather than nature.

Of course, the Westerosi would believe that an embryo (if they knew what that was or could trace the moment of conception way before the mom started to show) of an unmarried union would be a bastard. But let's ask ourselves how many people might have sex before marriage, conceive, and then decide to marry bc: one of them wishes to preserve their reputation (usually the woman); they wish to reap whatever benefits come from such a marriage; and/or because they do not want to bring a more apparent "bastard" into the world for them to suffer. I mean, how many peasant births would follow such a pattern versus the opposite? And for bastardry to be a true, natural thing of itself, we absolutely need to count peasant sex-marriage-birth-conception patterns, too, not just the nobles, bc "naturalness" explicitly & implicitly signifies "outside of large-human control", or something that occurs without human direction, intervention, manipulation AND nonetheless affecting them simultaneously. Like how plants using chloroform in their method of producing energy, that level of "naturalness".

Marriage then works as a tool to prevent both of these things. Whether or not the people loved each other. In real life, the Church wanted and proliferated the idea that people should marry through the idea of uno caro, or "one heart", where worshippers/those of the Catholic community (which is all worshippers) join themselves to each other in marriages to essentially give respect to God. Thus marriage is characterized as a sacred institution. And it was believed that sex was not only existed for reproduction alone, the accompanying pleasure was indicative of sex's "wrongness". Bc as one of God's worshippers you're not supposed to focus so much on bodily, earthly, carnal things or think them so "good" that it "distracts" you from God and "high", spiritual matters. Or prostrating yourself to God's will.

Therefore, anon, it really doesn't matter whether Aegon was conceived before or after the wedding ceremony. Since he's birthed after they marry & no one in-world found out about Daemyra's sexual pre-marital activities nor has publicized it, it doesn't matter (concerning "bastardry")! It doesn't matter at all if he was or isn't a "true" bastard when such a thing doesn't exist as natural.

[presidenthades]

I am doing very minor revisions of Daemon’s Handbook (mostly formatting and continuity errors), and I wanted to do some behind-the-scenes commentary before too much time passes and I forget my original thoughts. Here’s Chapter 7!

(Note that these commentaries aren’t canon to the verse until/unless the author writes them into the series. I might change my mind on a few points later, but these are the thoughts I had while writing.)

If I had to pick a favorite chapter to write, it’s this one. It’s the first post-time skip chapter, so we get to behold all the children (now young adults) in full horny mood.

Also, Alyssa develops a personality, and BOY is it a personality. I originally planned to make her a female version of Aegon III, who is very quiet, but it occurred to me that a hellion would be more fun (and torturous for Daemon, which is the real goal in this fic).

Aegon and Aemond are supposed to return directly to King’s Landing and wait with their family to receive the Dragonstone party, but Aegon decided he couldn’t wait to see Jace again and Aemond only required mild convincing to go along. And yes, the boys took a bath first in some river so they look nice and groomed~

One of Jace’s biggest character quirks is anxiety. She has ALL the anxiety. Comes with being an eldest sibling and second in line for the throne. I don’t consider her shallow, but she perceives her appearance as an important part of her political and social toolkit because the society they live in puts a lot of stock in appearances, especially women’s. So she’s finicky about looking the right part for every occasion. (Also she wants to look nice for her husband whom she hasn’t seen in three years, nothing wrong with that.)

I made Luce a knitter, partly because I’m a knitter and I like incorporating my interests, and partly because I wanted to give her a textile craft that wasn’t embroidery. I hope I’m not being too biased when I say that in this era, knitted products (like socks) are more useful than embroidered products (like fancy handkerchiefs). The practical value of knitting, and it being an acceptable craft for ladies even if it’s not as popular as embroidery, seemed fitting for Luce, who isn’t super conventional but also not a complete rebel. I also really like the imagery of her sending flowery socks to the Stepstones for Aegon and Aemond and Grandpa Corlys to wear.

Daemon is fit for his age, but he’s in his 40s and he’s got a lot of old battle wounds, so chasing around toddlers is fairly strenuous. Also, toddlers are FAST. Alyssa is closer to three than two, and she’s spent her entire life trying to keep up with her older sisters, so she’s got a fairly good sense of balance and isn’t stumbling around as much.

“Pretty girl” is 100% Aegon’s pet name for Jace, and I’m using it gratuitously in one of the sequel fics, which is Jace and Aegon-centric. (I’ll have an update soon on what I’m writing next, but I’ve decided to break down the epic longfic idea into multiple, more manageable mid-length fics.)

Aemond thinks Alyssa is spooked by his eyepatch and scar at first, but she’s actually falling in love at first sight. 😂 She’s got heterochromia so she probably *likes* that his eyes aren’t symmetrical either.

Aegon and Aemond are no longer afraid of Daemon! They’ve seen a lot of shit in the Stepstones, so their middle-aged uncle seems like less of a big deal now. Poor Daemon.

Aegon and Aemond are currently 18 and 16, so I made their stomachs black holes like most teenaged boys. They also have been eating a lot of rations at the Stepstones, even as royal princes, so a “plain” meal at Dragonstone seems awesome.

I have nothing to say about the melons, except that I’m very sorry for Lucera 🥲

Idk why but there’s something about Jace being very dutiful and proper that attracts messy rebels like Aegon and Baela. Opposites attracting, maybe? Kinda like how Luce is on the wilder side but Aemond is super put-together. I’ve thought about a crackish scenario where Viserys messes things up (as usual) and betroths Jace/Aemond and Luce/Aegon. I think Jace and Aemond would get bored with each other while Luce and Aegon might accidentally kill each other.

Jace and Aegon know their siblings are being stupid about their feelings for each other. Jace tries not to meddle (she doesn��t like it when Daemon meddles so she resists the urge), and Aegon makes fun of Aemond in the half-hearted hope it’ll goad Aemond into doing something.

I like to imagine that Luce eventually invents double-entry accounting in this universe. I also think she’s a big fan of the abacus, which is a more visual way of keeping track of numbers. She also likes charts and graphs in general.

The three dragonglass daggers that Luce orders from the blacksmith are for her, Jace, and Joff. (Luce loves all her sisters, but she has a special place in her heart for the three of them who are full-blooded sisters.) Purple for Jace (royal color for the future queen), green for Luce (like the sea and Velaryon colors), red for Joff (Targaryen color, nice and bloody). She isn’t expecting her sisters to use them as weapons; she wanted to make a gesture before Jace’s official wedding, since it marks a huge change in their lives.

I keep describing Luce and Aemond’s relationship in this fic as Pride and Prejudice-esque, and I stand by it. Miscommunication, ego issues, awkward flirting, a failed first proposal. One commenter described Daemon as the anti-Mrs Bennet, trying his best NOT to let the girls marry. 😂 And if we keep the analogy going, Clement Celtigar is Mr Collins while Otto is the closest thing we have to Lady Catherine de Bourgh.

I established in the beginning that Daemon is very bad with feelings. This scene where he tries to comfort Baela is part of his character arc and emotional growth, but he stumbles a few times more before the end of the fic.

I am very pleased that so many readers pinpointed Joff/Daeron as black cat and golden retriever energy, because I was definitely going for that. Daeron spews a lot of word vomit in his one line of dialogue, but you might notice he mentions “I got that thing you really wanted.” See the final scene in Chapter 11 for “that thing.” 👀

Jace is making PR a priority in her reign (and before her reign). She’s observed how loyal the Dragonstone smallfolk are to the Targaryens and wants to spread that loyalty to the realm’s smallfolk in general. This is why she and Aegon do the flight into the city, and why she has her Princess Diana moment on the way to the wedding.

Chapter 8 commentary here

[viscardiac]

it's been a Dayne day for some reason. you could even say a Day-ne. (ba dum ts). ALRIGHT BUCKLE UP FUCKOS IT'S TIME FOR VISCARDI'S NEW FAVE DELUSION (Dayne edition)

Fire and Blood cuts off at a particular point in Targaryen rule, the end of Aegon III's regency. He rules as king for 20 more years, before an early death. Then, his son, Daeron I, takes over, and The Bullshit™ with Dorne begins. Dornish takeover, which results in Dorne being brought into the Seven Kingdoms by his cousin nephew whatever Daeron 2 (electric boogaloo) later on.

Now. The Daynes are just. Overall. we don't really know jackshit about them. GRRM says he can't divulge their words bc it's a huge ass spoiler. My reasoning is bc they do become relevant later on, esp with the choice of Dyanna Dayne as wife to then Prince Maekar. Shit happens in Dorne and in court and i think that might be the reason why there's a postpone of the release of F&B2, aside from the obvious TWOW ordeal. I do think that's also why the choice of where to cut off might be there and not at the end of the dance or after his reign. F&B2 likely does contain context that helps with some of the unsolved things still going on in ASOIAF.

Anyways. We have Lady Dyanna Dayne, who gives birth, aside from Aegon, Aemon, and Daeron, to the three people of interest for this, Aerion, Daella, and Rhae. According to Aemon, Rhae and Daella have had children, and Aerion has had a wife, his cousin, Daenora, and with her, he had a son, whose "ill fated" name was Maegor. Aerion died guzzling down greek fire as we all know, but the fates of 1) Daella, 2) Rhae, 3) Daenora, and 4) Maegor are unknown aside from "existed" and "procreated" in the women's case. Those four are the only unnacounted for trueborn Targaryens we got. Everyone else was given a final location, like in Saera's case, where she was known to be in Volantis.

We have no idea who do Rhae and Daella are married to, if they indeed do get married. In Maegor's case, we don't even know if he made it past infancy. Daenora herself could have gotten married again, she was young when Aerion got himself killed.

My working theory here is that one of those folks married into house Dayne. Whoever those folks married, they're unnacounted for in the main tree. They were not given the name Targaryen. And it would have made sense to a certain degree that it was into Dyanna's house. It could have been any of them, but I sure as fuck would like if it was baby Maegor because it would be Particularly Funny.

I might be wrong, and i might not be, who knows. Something is UP with the Daynes and it happened after the conquest of Dorne.

Note: I do not account this as a secret targ theory because they're Not Targs. Whoever married into the house had their kids named Dayne and so on and so forth amen.

This has been me for this Day-ne's bullshit. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

[blueberrypancakesworld]

Who are your favorite characters from asoiaf?

Ahh thanks for the question dear anon so I will start with the still living characters who are still alive in the current timeline i.e. 300 after aegon's conquest. I'll try to keep it a bit short......

The hound Sandor I liked him from the beginning because of his honest way about the whole situation, it's a dark cruel world (for Sansa) for everyone else, plus his story with his brother and the look is just so interesting, he is a knight but like his world something dark horrible who doesn't shy away from violence and murder. I am curious to see how his story will continue

Catelyn Stark/Lady Stoneheart I really liked her in the book, a woman who makes things happen herself, who does things, tries to protect her family and is driven even beyond death to get revenge for her son. The new "undead" design with their own banners and pendants is just so cool to have this magic aspect, another great contrast to the dragons that there are not only magical creatures but also forces that bring maltreated corpses back to life driven by strong emotions.

(Viserys iii i know a very controversial character but in my eyes a boy who has not only lost everything but has been dropped by the world, who has been told nothing but lies and let it be haunted by the coin of gods curse of the dragons. But i would have liked to have gotten more of him a crazy targayren duo with dragons…well he is dead but i still liked him. ps : I'm not a big fan of Daenerys I'm sorry she's the hope of the dragon house besides maybe young griff or jon but I just don't like her some chapters are really good but I don't know I don't warm up to her)

Let's continue with controversial father son duo Roose and Ramasay Bolton the cute leech lord and his psycho son. I'm a fan of Roose and Walda as well as Ramasay and Reek/Theon I know I see the pitchforks already but I have to say for me these two are the darkest of the darkest Westeros has ever produced in a time where anyone and I mean anyone could have been the last day. Roose played strategically and Ramsay knows he has a real hand up to a point (because of his blood) yet they are both too blind to realize it's not Arya Stark.

But back to good characters House Mormont (and I'm not talking about Jorah) I like that image of the house warrior women with bears and axes I'm in plus Maege and her daughters are just so cool I'm looking forward to more of them plus I'm excited for hopefully more interaction with Alysane and Asha Greyjoy.

And to Asha the good/cool child of Balonand rightful heir in my eyes (sorry Theon) in the beginning I found her a bit mhh yeah okay she's just Theon's sister but as she became more and more the main character and is and was and is better than Theon I liked her. Besides, a female captain is always good.

And lastly my two favorite sisters Wynafryd and Wylla who I believe both killed their betrotheds also in the style of their house with dyed hair (house manderly is an underrated house anyway) and like the north they are also under the sign of their actual lord and king from house Stark and want revenge.

Oh and before i forget the sand snakes the coolest bastad kids with the best dad there is (dorn is generally one of the best places besides the vale of arryn i think) but most of all i love his third daughter Tyene not only does she stand out from her sisters with her looks but her way with poison is just so cool and a special connection to her father as her other sisters all use hand strong weapons.

[labaguettegameuse]

So, i got a few mods to work with baldur's gate III and i wanted to mess around with the CC. None of these characters are saved. I just have fun with mods to test a few things. I tried to recreate some of my ocs from different fandoms. Most of them are from Game of Thrones. I didn't read the books, i've watched the shows. I just let my imagination rage on.

Here's the first one : Fiyonna Stark, the oldest sister of Ned Stark. Giant lady but not as tall as Brienne. Considers her nephews and nieces like her own children and will try anything to protect them. Was in love with Roberts during their yongers years as they often fought together. She often thinks she'll never make it to the next winter because of all the wounds and scars she has. She doesn't know if she'll stay besides Bran when he becomes king or if she'll return to Winterfell to support and help Sansa.

Here's Jeyne Lannister ; The middle child. Younger sis of Cersei and Jaime, older sis of Tyrion. She's as good and gentle as Myrcella. Doesn't like Joffrey much. Was hoping for Tommen to survive longer. Cersei was an example and almost a mother figure to her, at a certain point. Jaime was an overprotective brother with her. Even when she was promise to Robb, he would rarely leave her alone with boys. Her relationship with her father is complicated… She never treated Tyrion like a monster. She doesn't want her family to die but can't support the peculiar tendencies of her sister when she was queen.

Here's Rachel Tyrell, sister of Margeary and Loras. Childhood friend of Jaime. She loves her family very much and is very dedicated to them. But also with her friendship with Jaime. Sadly, she's a bit oblivious, if not very, when someone would flirt with her openly. She loves to travel to Dorne and even had a child with a noble man of Dorne. But she never told who truly was the father. Her and Jaime reunited when he came back to kings landing. He confesses how jealous he was of her having a relationship before him and they never left each other's side ever since. They eventually marry in secret without telling a soul. But everything came to end when Rachel caught Jaime and Cersei together after Joffrey died. She left to go back to Highgarden with her son. When Jaime killed Olenna, Rachel was arrested for a time. Before he helped her escaped, even if she clearly despises him now. She tried to serve Daenerys for a time until she got killed by Jon Snow. She goes back to Highgarden after Bran becomes king.

Here's Rhaenyra Targaryen II, Sister of Rhaegar, Older sis of Daenerys. She always tried to please everyone when she was yonger. She tried to help and protect her mother Rhaella, like Jaime, but it often didn't work and would often end in Aerys beating up his own daughter. She couldn't get too friendly with men/boys cause it would end up in the same reasults. She wasn't killed after the rebellion for some reasons. She was kept as a prisoner for years. Until she managed to escape after killing up guards and changing her looks a bit. Since then, she tried to find any survivor of the Targaryen dynasty. She got a niece in Dorne, and a yonger sister who's with the Dothraki. Once she found Daenerys, She explained who she was and tried to help her out as much as possible. As well as protecting her. She'll try to help her keep her sanity and the throne. But she was so anger and destroyed after her death that Rhaenyra disappeared. Probably trying to find drogon. Or death.

Here's Baela Targaryen II, eldest daughter of Rhaegar and Elia Martell. Sibling of Rhaenys and Aegon, half sis of Jon Snow. She never wanted to rule over anything, but she wouldn't mind learning and taking necessary classes anyway. She loved reading and discovering new things. She was very close with her parents and siblings, despite knowing that love wasn't trully and fully present between her mom and dad. She was very close with her uncle Oberyn. But during the rebellion, her and her family was kept in the red dungeons by King Aerys to guarantee Dorne's Loyalty. Baela had to watch her siblings getting butchered and her mother getting raped and killed. Until it was her turn a few days later. She escaped by killing and hurting everyone in her way and lay low for… for what seemed to be an eternity. Until one day, she managed to reached Dorne. Half dead, hair shaved poorly. As poorly as her health. She was taken care by Oberyn and Ellaria. Baela has to hide in Dorne and changed her name for her security. She became an expert in poison, in stealth and assassinations. She became friend with Myrcella and was in charged of her protection and Trystane's. She always hated the Lannister with a burning passion. Besides Myrcella. After Ellaria killed Doran and after Baela realized how Trystane and Myrcella truly died, she left Dorne. Feeling like she was no longer safe, she tried to reach Dragonstone. She was welcomed by her aunt Rhaenyra II and was introduced to Daenerys. After reassuring her that the throne doesn't interest her, she gladly offers her help to take the Lannister and Kings Landing down. Baela almost died during the battle of Winterfell and coudn't participate in the fall of Kings Landing. After the death of Daenerys, she tried to look for her aunt Rhaenyra without much success. She returned to Dorne.

And we're done for the GOT ocs. Please don't come at me, i was just having fun. Sorry in advance for the mistakes. You can just ignore the texts if it bothers you and enjoys the pictures instead !

I also have two more ocs from another fandom but i won't put them in the same post.

[beyondmistland]

Hi! Just saw your ask about Alysanne being Maegor’s daughter (possibility). It’s so complicated and interesting... but actually wouldn’t make sense because in many ways Alysanne is basically her grandmother Rhaenys over again - for they have so much in common: the beloved Good Queen who cared about people etc. Even Rhaena compared Alysanne to Rhaenys and herself to Visenya. And actually when I think about Visenya’s possible grandchild I think of someone similar to Rhaena as well. Anyway, I’m glad Visenya’s line didn’t continue because she was really downgrading with Maegor by blindly supporting her hitler of a son.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

Maegor, for all his many, many faults was neither genocidal nor a eugenicist.

Children are their own people and there is never any guarantee they will turn out like their parents. Case in point, Jaehaerys I is nothing like his dithering father, Aenys I.

People don't have to literally be someone's descendant to resemble them in terms of looks or personality. People can and have taken after aunts, uncles, or grandparents on either side of their family. Heck, sometimes a person resembles no one in the family due to inheriting long-dormant recessive genes from a distant ancestor! And that’s before you get into people choosing to deliberately model themselves off someone they admire, which in this case would be famous kings, queens, knights, lords, ladies, etc.

Characters shouldn't be punished for the actions of their offspring and the idea that *bad* characters or characters with *bad children* shouldn't have descendants is imho very problematic. Seriously, by that logic, Daeron II shouldn't have been born and while I personally think he's more flawed than most of the fandom, he is undoubtedly one of the better Targaryen kings. Similarly, according to this train of thought, Aegon III and Viserys II shouldn't have been born because neither Rhaenyra nor Daemon are good people. Speaking of those two, who even decides who's a good or bad character? I personally find Daemon Targaryen loathsome but he clearly has a ton of fans and not just on Tumblr. Would a guy like Maekar fall under your category of *bad* considering his many flaws as a parent and person as well as the fact he accidentally killed Baelor Breakspear and sired Aerion Brightflame?

The fact that Visenya's line dies out is part of a wider trend wherein GRRM, for all his talk about disliking black-and-white conflicts/characters and preferring "the human heart in conflict with itself", often writes one side of any given struggle to be more sympathetic, with the other side ALWAYS dying out. Visenya's line dies out and through only having Maegor is made to be less sympathetic. Alicent's line dies out (unless you include unacknowledged bastards) and the Greens as a whole are written to be mustache-twirling redshirts. While before there was good reason to believe Bittersteel had children by marriage (which would have heightened the contrast with Bloodraven and fit in well with the grounded institutional nature of Bittersteel's legacy, whereas Bloodraven's is relegated to the fleeting memory of song, just as magic comes and goes) but now, according to GRRM, he probably never had children, which in this case I'm willing to let slide, mainly because it shows how he and Bloodraven are mirrors of each other in terms of being each side's respective fanatic, the conflict consuming every other aspect of their lives in service to it.

We have no idea what kind of mother, leader, or person Rhaenys would have been had she lived longer. And its not like Visenya didn't have people who loved her too or else Yandel wouldn't use the phrase "even those who loved her best".

I generally dislike tropes like "the evil stepmother" as @cynicalclassicist can attest.

Thanks for commenting, anon.

[quinntamsin]

Denna let out a cry of joy as the ship crested over a wave and hut the end of it with a hard think. The wind was causing their vessel to speed quickly across the ocean as she and Kwynn headed south to attend a wedding in the neck. The banner of House Ceallach, a white raven on a black banner, sailed above on the mast. Her wife, the Lady Ceallach was busily speaking to the captain as they were only perhaps a few miles before making port.

House of the Dragon S1E8 "The Lord of the Tides". We open with the Lord of Hightide injured from fighting in the Stepstones. Vaemond seems intent on taking it from his own family. Rhaena stands beside Rhaenys as she sits the Driftwood throne. I like how there is still succession debates going on among the Houses of the Blackwater Rush. Is it a Valyrian trait to turn on family; I wonder how they plan on introducing the next Lord of Driftmark, Alyn Hull aka Velaryon. The King tries to focus on the happy as Alicent prays for lord Vaemond. They toast Lucaerys as everyone else including Aegon the fuckwad decides to be a fuckboy. Seriously, that little rapist would reserve the death he gets later. Switching to Dragonstone we see that new fortifications have been built on the great fortress as we zone in on the firemount for some reason. Deep within a crevasse, we see someone stealing a Dragon Egg? It's Daemon he pries the egg from a strange almost dragonglass-made nest. Daemon seems happy about the new eggs as he receives a message from his daughter. Grown-up Jacaerys definitely is lighter in hair than his younger self, as he practices High Valyrian over Aegon's epic table. He is dismissed as Daemon enters to give information to hise Niece-Wife, about the ongoing turmoil of Hightide. Vaemond's own action makes me think he's been causing more problems as we see the Strong Children getting their status questioned. Honestly, I wouldn't put it past Lord Otto to play up the bullshit. The Velaryon-Targs make their arrival back in King's Landing where they hope to put aside ongoing issues with Lady Rhaenys. THey are welcomed by no one, the Queen isn't there (way to go Ali-Karen) and a person pops up without notice. Inside the Red Keep is silent, everything is darker as there's more evidence of the Seven. The typical bullshit of the Andals as many of the Valyrian accouterments have been removed. The Queen Wears a seven-pointed star like it's a fucking shield on her as we see the Greens are trying further to attack the kids. It would have been less outward about it. Sir Erryk alerts the Queen to what we will find out is Aegon being a raper (and her being a total White Karen and pushing to cover it up). Rhae enters her father's chambers with Damon as they are much darker and more forlorn than before. Viserys' illness has spread farther than before. The right of his face is almost entirely bandaged as only his nose is left free. WE can see that the King is fading, Daemon informs the King of the Sea Snakes fall in battle. When Daemon pushes the King seemingly just repeats it. WHen he meets the youngest boys including Visery II and Aegon III, his stuttering scares the children. I mean they are kids. In the Queen's presence the girl is crying, her face roughed and ruffled I am they didn't fucking show us the actual scene. The aftermath is all we need when it comes to the GoT TV series' history of treating women. She tells him how she asked him to stop and the Queen appears to have some mercy for the girl. Some sympathy but honestly, as I watch I know it's all fucking fake. Alicent proceeds to basically threaten the shit out of the girl showcasing that she's not just a bad mother, but also a terrible Queen! She even pays the girl off like a fucking Corporate HR Karen. This scene is so seriously horrific as the girl is forced under duress to drink Moontea to abort the child. So, wow, I really wished they didn't have this, but I will say this Alicent is trying. The soon to be future King as he's ignoring everything all the Queen can do is strike him. Yup, this is a real Bateman hotel. He's ignoring Helaena, and then he tries to whine about how the world is so hard. Helaena pops up and being the just pure soul she is asks for Dyana to watch the kids. Her walk in to speak to Alicent ends as predictably as it could. The Strong Lads head out to the training yard dressed in dark cloaks as befitting their status as scions of House Targaryen. They discuss their current status as Aemond being a total badass in the fighting ring faces off against Sir Criston. Aemond is just so fucking unhinged as he asks his Nephews if they wish to train. In the situation pops Vaemond who is here to be the pissant he is and we prepare as the Lord of the Tides is to be decided. Otto does it all under the guise of putting a child in command. This could easily be decided by Rhaenys standing as a fucking Regent. She has served with her husband and we know Daemon is also a battle-ready fighter. Whatever it is, we travel to the Godswood where Rhaena leads in Rhae to speak to her family. Rhae is right that Rhaenys is there to proclaim herself. Laenor is still alive, and we know Rhae hatched the scheme to let him fuck off under the lie of being dead. It makes me wonder how Rhaenys come to side with the Black Council if she's just going to ignore shit. The Hightowers are going to pry away at Rhae for her status and for her children. We know that Laenor tried to have sex with her, but gave up for his own boundaries. SO she turned to someone to help and that was sir Harwin Strong. If Larys had not broken his family apart as a fucking Kinslayer the Strongs would have been there to back the Black Council. Rhae pops up in the night to speak to her father about the "Song of Ice and FIre". The writers here are leaning hard into more Dreamer work, but we know that Aemond's future came true. Rhae admits she likely didn't really want to lead the kingdom, she's lost a lot here. How all of the ongoing weight of the future and her desire to rule are so damn overpowering. Watching Rhae beg her father is so fucking heartbreaking. She is trying so hard, but her former best friend and her father are tearing it all apart. And the King can do nothing because he's falling apart from his own illness.

Valar Morghulis. As he is wrapped again by the Maesters he speaks to Otto as he calls for supper in the redkeep. He wants his family, his fading vision of family unification, to be somewhat true, even for a moment. As he taken back to bed we see sores covering his body as a shadow of the Seven paints the room. Back in the throne room Otto stands before the chair facing toward those issue and sits upon it. THe fool. Vaemond is up, he goes with the History, and goes on his purist bullshit. The Velaryons have married into the Targs enough for both Houses to have a healthy CLaim. I mean that he pushes harder on declaring the Strong Kids as illegitimate. Rhae's argument begins as someone else, the King enters, and he's hobbling worse than Maester Aemond is. Half is face is masked in gold much like Baldwin IV of Jerusalem. His walk to the Iron Throne is painful as he glances between his wife, brother, sons, grandchildren and his daughter. He basically tells Otto he's there to sit, even in pain, he will sit the Throne. Valar Dohaeris. Bearing down on his cane he is helped up by his brother who for once seems above his own bullshit in this scene. Daemon picks up his brother and the Crown and settles Viserys into the Iron Thone. Excellent acting done by Paddy Considine. THe King's actions here will mean that Vaemond get's set aside, and so does Luke. Baela sits with the Strong Kids, she mentions the fucking marriage agreement. But this seems like a nice build up as Lord Vaemond decides to go full on bullshit. He throws a tantrum and decides to argue with the King. He is about to say it when we see that Daemon is about to go stepdad on his ass and murder the fucker. He calls it out before the King. and insults the heir-apparent of the Seven Kingdoms. And as the king calls for his tongue he beheads Vaemond using Dark Sister. I will be honest, this was an epic as fuck scene, as Lord Rhaenys sits over the body of Vaemond is prepared for funeral. Rhaenys speaks of the STranger, of how Death has haunted her House too much recently. First her daughter, then her goodbrother. Laenor is not included since he was willing to traumatize his family to fuck off. Yes, I get it he wanted to go do his shit, but he left his mother with a lie instead of at least a clue. "It both gladdens my heart and fills it with sorrow." He makes a point at going straight for the jugular at the division of the Hightower and Velaryon Targaryens. He removes his mask to showcase the damage done to his face by the disease that has been eating at him. Valar Morghulis, the king shows him his true face. He's trying so hard for his family to not continue this bullshit. If only Alicent would -just- let shit go. He -begs- them to let it go, and we can see that Alicent is filled with emotion. Which will result as Rhae gives Alicent a compliment, and apology. Rhaena tosses the woman another fucking olive branch, one that could have ended all of this. ALL OF THIS. She admits that Rhae will make a fine Queen, but there's Otto in the background ready to stir shit again. Can someone just off or detongue the bastard. Aegon is a literally drunken fool, and Aemond is a war-weary asshole.  And Aegon decides to insult to injury and Jace stands like a man. He could apologize for attacking Aemond (which would have done nothing, but made him appear the bigger person). He did the smart thing though in not playing to Aegon's childishness. Helaena pops up and talks about how horrible her husband is and this was great. Aegon deserve to be eaten by a fucking Dragon as Jace walks off to be with Helaena. This is a pairing that should have happened, but no Karen Queen had to push them together. The family seems happy hear at least a little bit, Aegon is a fuckwad who should be gelded. Rhae is smiling even Aegon is happy as is the Queen. For a night, the King gets his dream, a family without stsrife, but this is a false narrative. He is dying, we can see as the pain begins to take him and Daemon watches. Aemond decides to open his fucking mouth, decides to level another insult, he decides. Alicent is trying at this point, we can see that it is now the generational feud that is spreading now. She says she will return on Dragonback, but I don't think the Princess will return. We switch to the dark of the Keep as music plays in the background. Someone is stalking somewhere in the night. Is this Daemon visiting the White Worm. No it is someone else. We sweep into the King's bedroom where he is struggling with the pain of his illness. I do rail against ALicent, but the woman IS trying. She is dealing with a father who encourages her to cover up and not actually deal with her sons problem. She is surrounded by men who have pushed her into this situation. And she is in a marriage where her husband is a walking corpse. In his throws of pain he speaks of the prophecy of the Song, and he eventually pushes ALicent into a position which is foolish. If anyone writes a good Alaenyra story giving Rhae and her a good start I will jump on that bitch fast! Alicent leaves her husbands room after hearing his rambling as she thinks he wants Aegon to succeed. Knowing nothing of what he meant she will take this as the King Breathe's his very last it seems. He tears up, seeing how the ravages of his future will result in the death of his line mayhap. Thus the King died, Long LIve King Aegon II and thus came the Dance of Dragons. Gay Canon Damn, like seriously damn, I have some really good ideas involving a few characters here. I wanna say that once I finish up some work I will be dabbling in an Alaenyra story for next season. A sort of spite to the fuckery that is the sexism of Westeros. I want to be clear, this is me spiting what Weiss and Benioff did to a sound storyline. I like what HoTD is doing, I think it has a solid story in its hand. At the same time I want to take in hand what I think could have been a take on the Targs not descending into the sickening rot that will become of their future Kin. Hottakes The Driftwood Throne is pretty bamf.

Thank gods they didn't actually show us that gender violence scene.

I like how they are playing up Aemond as a childish almost sociopathic clone of Daemon. The stand off near the end mirrors their ended together well above the Gods Eye.

This show is really doing a good job as expressing and showcasing generational trauma.

Helaena is fucking precious.

All of these time skips are fucking with my head.

They say only four seasons, I would have made it six with fewer time skips.

[thephantomcasebook]

Hello, good morning. I wanted to ask you a few questions and congratulate you.I love the way you inform us and make us fit the actions that sometimes we wonder how it fits with it, as in the case of Alicent and Criston cole.The questions are.Is Alicent as religious in the books as they show him to be in the series?Do you think they will leave Daeron and Jahaera alive in the series after the Dance of Dragons is over? I know Aegon III is known to marry the Velaryon girl and they have a religious son but they could change that to fit and match an Alicent in the series, it would be possible that Jahaera being his granddaughter has inherited that trait and if she marries Aegon and gives him those children she may have inherited that trait to Baelor.Do you think the directors of the series will go with the book, because so far they have released two versions of Fire and Blood and there are a lot of changes. Do you think they will follow the structure but some things will change in their own way, like in Game of Thrones?What do you think will happen with Aemond and Helaena in the second season?I would like Helaena to also be involved in the war and not just be mourning, although I understand her loss.It would be nice to see her with Dreamfyre and show us that strong bond they have.

1.) Her religiousness is mentioned in passing but it's not as major a part of her character. Alicent doesn't really have a character in the book. She's fairly one dimensional, and the focus is more on Rhaenyra. The only things you know (or used to know) was that her rivalry with Rhaenyra began over Criston when they were girls. Alicent was really close with Daeron and loved him most of all her children. She had a very close and loving relationship with all her grandchildren. And that she disappears from history and no one knows what happened to her.

Everything you love about Alicent comes from the show - she doesn't have much of a character in the book. Everything about her is buried in subtext or reader speculation.

2.) I'd think it would be a welcome change for Jahaera to be left alive. I was really annoyed both the first time I went through the source material and then recently when they ended up killing her. It makes you wonder what the whole fucking point of anything was. It also sort of makes "The Dance" pointless. Even in real history "The War of the Roses" ended because the two factions united their Houses as one.

As for Daeron, I can't speak to that, because, I'd have to see how they introduce him into the show - and they got a man's job ahead of them. His character is the one that has been changed the most in the transition from one version to the other. He went from an Alpha and legendary Dragon Knight who was reluctant to wield ultimate power when it was offered to him. And his "death" was a huge tragedy and way-point in history for the Targaryens in the long run, because he was someone who would've made an excellent king and brought the realm back together. Now he's been stripped down to a sort of after thought in the new text.

Which makes sense when you know that Spotchnik and some of the writers didn't want him to be in the show, period. So, they cut his part down in the Tie-in rewrite to make him seem unimportant. I honestly don't think they were expecting to have to introduce Daeron at all. And I bet their frustration will be taken out on the character and their interpretation of him ... so I have very little faith in his adaption.

By the way, no, I don't think Daeron died in canon. There is way too many inconsistencies and assumptions used to justify a death that no one ever saw happen and that most people didn't think happened. I think that after he and Tessarion killed Vermithor to save everyone - including King's Landing - that he put Tessarion out of her misery, went to King's Landing to protect Alicent and then disappeared - probably at her behest.

I subscribe to the theory that Daeron married Lady Dayne of Starfall, which was not part of the Seven Kingdoms at the time. And that Alicent later followed him there. And that House Dayne get their purple eyes, silver hair, and pention for their daughters' names starting with an "A" from Daeron and Alicent.

3.) I know for a fact that the writers and directors are going from the original version of the story, because, they lifted a lot of stuff from it in Season 1 that is now taken out in the Tie-In edition. Also, Emily Carrey, who plays young Alicent, came out and blatantly quoted from the original version that Alicent was in love with Criston and that was what drove the ultimate wedge between her and Rhaenyra. That's not her headcanon or personal motivation for the character, that was straight from the original source material.

Plus, Martin wrote it and he's Co-Executive Producer.

4.) Well, even in the book ... Helaena was a non-combatant and was nowhere near battlefields - So I just don't see that changing. Especally now that they've put her on the spectrum.

As for Aemond and Helaena ... I don't know. A lot of time you can read tie-in material stuff as sort of portents for where they're thinking of going in shows and movies. And, because, the new "Rise of the Dragon" illustrated book blatantly goes out of its way to distance Aemond and Helaena even more - as well as Alicent and Criston. I think Season 2 is gonna break up the Green's family dynamic and make them colder to one another.

Here's my dire warning to my Alicole and Helamond brethren and sisters ...

George RR Martin not only can't write romance, but actively detests love stories in his universe in general. He doesn't believe in true love and goes out of his way to subvert it. So, if you're waiting around for this grand tormented romantic moment between Aemond/Helaena or Alicent/Criston ... it's probably not gonna happen, not on GRRM watch.

I don't think Helaena and Aemond will interact at all in Season 2. And rather than show genuine feelings, Alicent will probably try or will manipulate Criston - and show that she doesn't feel anything for him at all. That she is this jaded and empty repressed woman who will be more of a villain now.

I hope not. But just like I have low expectations for Daeron's adaption, I don't have any faith that they'll do a good job of building on the momentum of Season 1. Being a writer myself, I know the temperament of professional writers in a room - especially ones that get over praised. All the praise and accolades of Season 1 will get in their head and they'll get arrogant and up their own ass and fuck up by thinking themselves bullet proof. Immediately, right after the season finale of HOTD, the head writer is out there fighting with fans already, saying that they don't know shit.

I don't have high hopes for season 2.

The difference between HOTD and GOT is that "Fire & Blood" is not a good or coherent book - it's inferior source material in every way. The "A Song of Ice and FIre" series is dense with backstory and world building, and you have incredibly fleshed out characters that you can adapt. HOTD is behind the eight-ball because the characterizations and their development are at the whim of writers that have to make up 75% of the adaption.

For context, HOTD is only adapting roughly 30-35 pages of a 200+ page book that is filled with subtext and conflicting accounts of events.

It would be a lot to ask of a talented writer ... and they just upped Sarah Hess for another season.

[monday-cat]

SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please be careful guys there are spoilers ahead.

If you didn’t read the novel Fire&Blood and don’t want to read any kind of spoilers regarding some events of the civil war ‚dance of the dragons‘ I would like you stop reading this post right now. Thank you. 

     _____________________________

SPOILER: (Sorry this will be really long, and English isn’t my native language, so sorry for crazy ass mistakes.)

Call me overly romantic but I actually don’t believe it was Larys intention to betray Alicent in the first place (killing her son) but his action is perhaps the only option to save Alicent and himself (and any other) from excecution (didn’t really work out) and a brutal siege of kingslanding.

Larys sees the bigger picture. Alicents last remaining son, king Aegon II is a heavyly injured, sick king. The North, Vale and the riverlords have declared for Queen Rheanyras last remaining son prince Aegon III who is held captive at the Redkeep. The Lords march solwly down to south in an attempt to besiege the capital. Even with lord Corlys and his ships on King Aegon II side, Kings Landing won’t endure another siege and a nother sack. The only way to get out of this misery and to not get sacked and excecuted by the enemy is to make peace with the lords and proclaim Rheanyras son the heir. But instead King Aegon II threatens to behead all the traitors. Lord Corlys is outraged by this and storms out of the counsil. At this point Larys reaches out to Lord Corlys to plan an counterplot. They simply cannot lose Lord Corlys to the enemy and Larys has told multiple times that they need Lord Corlys and cannot afford to upset him any longer.

So Larys allies with Corlys and tells him about the plan of the king to have corlys get murdered in secret (by this he betrays Alicent). Corlys is outraged and wants to strom the counsil killing everyone. But Larys stops him and offers him a different plan:

I think the original plot was not to kill Aegon II in the first place (that would be treason). But to have King Aegon II surrender, to abdicate prince Aegon and making the king take the black at the Night watch. Aegon II would not be King anymore but he would be alive and the realm would be for a short break at peace.

Lord Corlys offers King Aegon II this option. And after Lord Borros defeat at the trident and no support from the allies, King Aegon II really considered this. But then Queen Alicent told him (out of fear) that the prince would probably show him no mercy and tells him to better to cut of the ears of the Prince to send them as a warning to the riverlords. Aegon II (beeing a mommas boy) agreed to this. But this cruel act would only put oil in the fire and make everything worse. And on top of that Aegon II threatens Lord Corlys to hurt his precious niece Lady Baela as well if his men would be get beaten in the next battle.

So the original plan failed. Both Larys and Corlys have no time left but to get the alternative plan (the bloody plan) into action. So at night the killing starts. The King gets poisioned and appr. 40 loyalists are getting murdered. So this is quite a bloodbath and in such a bloodbath mistakes can happen. So as a little Larycent shipper I believe that Corlys and Larys make the bloobath come into action but under following conditions:

Lord Corlys loves his niece Lady Baela very much.So his condition would be that no matter what happens at that night Lady Baela must be safe. Larys knows the castle like no other. His men get her to safety.

Then there is Alicent and in the novel her fate was described as this ‚Queen Alicent was arrested on the serpentine steps as she made her way back to her chambers. Her captors wore the seahorse of House Velaryon upon their doublets, and though they slew the two men guarding her, they did no harm to the Dowager Queen herself‘

Lord Corlys men are arresting her but no harm befalls her on the serpentine steps (which is quite remarkable) but kill all of her guards. Why would Corlys spare her? In the novel Alicent resents Corlys and wanted to see him dead multiple times and I believe he doesn’t like her either. All the other loyalists are getting killed that night. So my Larycentshipper heart believes that this was Larys condition, to get her arrested yes, but also to keep her save. And by letting Alicent get arrested by Lord Corlys men, plus Lord Corlys recommendation to the King to surrender earlier that day, plus Aegons II threat to Corlys to hurt his niece if his men fail in the battle – result in a reasonable suspicion for Alicent, that Corlys would be the one who betrayed and poisioned the king.

So after the Kings death Larys plan ist to get Rheanyras last son get crowned, befriend the new king and influence him, making peace with the lords from the vale, riverland and north. Letting Alicent overcome her sorrow by marrying her grandaughter to the king. Eventually befriend Alicent again and trying to work with her to get rid of Lord Corlys. Under this reagrd the following phrase in the novel makes some sense:

‚The realm’s new rulers found themselves divided on the question of what to do with the Dowager Queen Alicent, but elsewise all seemed in accord, and good fellowship reigned…for the best part of a fortnight.‘  Larys didn’t want her to get executed or imprisoned for life. But I believe some of the other lords  didn’t want to show her any mercy.

Everthing was almost perfect and every piece came together nicely. Well Larys did kill Alicents son but luckily framed someone else for it  She will overcome her sorrow and get in touch with him again. They have a new boy king who he can easily manupilate. So perfect.  Until Lord Stark rode to town and swept all the pieces from the chessboard.

And then the hardest part:

Lord Stark presses charges against Lord Corlys and Lord Larys before the whole court. Exposing all his sins all his cards for everyone, for Alicent to see. And Alicent finally sees that it was Larys who betrayed her and killed her son. In Retrospective it is really tragic. We have here some stark contrast: When Lord Corlys says to his defense he did what he did for the realm, allies and former enemies were comming forward to say something good about Corlys and pleaded for mercy on his behalf. But with Larys no one said anything, no one stepped forward to plea mercy for him. While Alicent was standing there. Alicent who he befriended almost 16 years ago and is in the series really close with. He safed her children when Rheanyra stromed the captial and let her get out of prison when King tristane was ruling in Kingslanding. She didn’t step forward, she didn’t say a word because the betrayal was too great. She simply can’t. And by this I think as a romantic person he truly realizes he lost this game, he lost her and when Lord Stark askes him if he has something to say to his defense he just bittlerly answers ‚When was a wolf ever moved by words.‘  admitting his defeat.

 He doesn’t want to take the black, he want’s to leave this world for he has nothing to live for and chooses the execution. His love was his downfall.

THIS. IS. SO. TRAGIC. BUT. WOULD. BE. SO. BEAUTIFUL. If they going down that route(and in the series they make him so infatuated and obsessed with her) I will cry my eyes out. Maybe I’m wrong or maybe I’m not.

[rainhadaenerys]

Daenerys doesn’t like being treated like a child

For Daenerys Month 2021

Day 3: Personality traits

"Wise child." The knight smiled.

"I am no child," she told him fiercely. Her heels pressed into the sides of her mount, rousing the silver to a gallop. Faster and faster she raced, leaving Jorah and Irri and the others far behind, the warm wind in her hair and the setting sun red on her face. By the time she reached the khalasar, it was dusk. - Daenerys III ADWD

~

"I understand that you loved him," Ser Jorah said in a voice thick with despair. "I loved my lady wife once, yet I did not die with her. You are my queen, my sword is yours, but do not ask me to stand aside as you climb on Drogo's pyre. I will not watch you burn."

"Is that what you fear?" Dany kissed him lightly on his broad forehead. "I am not such a child as that, sweet ser." - Daenerys X AGOT

~

The godswife thought her a child, but children grow, and children learn. - Daenerys X AGOT

~

"All this I know." She took his hands in hers and looked up into his dark suspicious eyes. Sometimes he thinks of me as a child he must protect, and sometimes as a woman he would like to bed, but does he ever truly see me as his queen? "I am not the frightened girl you met in Pentos. I have counted only fifteen name days, true . . . but I am as old as the crones in the dosh khaleen and as young as my dragons, Jorah. I have borne a child, burned a khal, and crossed the red waste and the Dothraki sea. Mine is the blood of the dragon." - Daenerys II ACOK

~

That made her smile despite herself. "Oh, I have no doubt of that, ser. I know Illyrio better than you think. I was a child when I left his manse in Pentos to wed my sun-and-stars, but I was neither deaf nor blind. And I am no child now." - Daenerys III ACOK

~

Pyat Pree smiled thinly. "The child speaks as sagely as a crone. Take my arm, and let me lead you."

"I am no child." Dany took his arm nonetheless. - Daenerys IV ACOK

~

His jaw set stubbornly. "Your path is dangerous, I will not deny that. But if you blindly trust in every liar and schemer who crosses it, you will end as your brothers did."

His obstinacy made her angry. He treats me like some child. "Strong Belwas could not scheme his way to breakfast. And what lies has Arstan Whitebeard told me?" - Daenerys I ASOS

~

"Yes, Your Grace," he said unhappily.

"I am not a child," she told him. "I am a queen."

"Yet even queens can err. The Astapori have cheated you, Your Grace. A dragon is worth more than any army. Aegon proved that three hundred years ago, upon the Field of Fire."

"I know what Aegon proved. I mean to prove a few things of my own." - Daenerys III ASOS

~

A stillness settled over her camp when midnight came and went. Dany remained in her pavilion with her maids, while Arstan Whitebeard and Strong Belwas kept the guard. The waiting is the hardest part. To sit in her tent with idle hands while her battle was being fought without her made Dany feel half a child again. - Daenerys IV ASOS

~

Lord Ghael had a mouth of brown and rotten teeth and the pointed yellow face of a weasel. He also had a gift. "Cleon the Great sends these slippers as a token of his love for Daenerys Stormborn, the Mother of Dragons."

Irri slid the slippers onto Dany's feet. They were gilded leather, decorated with green freshwater pearls. Does the butcher king believe a pair of pretty slippers will win my hand? "King Cleon is most generous. You may thank him for his lovely gift." Lovely, but made for a child. Dany had small feet, yet the pointed slippers mashed her toes together. - Daenerys I ADWD

~

"Perhaps your elephants would sooner be nightingales. Instead of sweet song, Meereen's nights would be filled with thunderous trumpetings, and your trees would shatter beneath the weight of great grey birds." Xaro sighed. "Daenerys, my delight, beneath that sweet young breast beats a tender heart … but take counsel from an older, wiser head. Things are not always as they seem. Much that may seem evil can be good. Consider rain."

"Rain?" Does he take me for a fool, or just a child? - Daenerys III ADWD

~

"Oftimes I have heard you say that you are only a young girl. To look at you, you still seem half a child, too young and frail to face such trials by yourself. You need a king beside you to help you bear these burdens."

Dany speared a chunk of lamb, took a bite from it, chewed slowly. "Tell me, can this king puff his cheeks up and blow Xaro's galleys back to Qarth? Can he clap his hands and break the siege of Astapor? Can he put food in the bellies of my children and bring peace back to my streets?" - Daenerys IV ADWD

This is a detail of Dany's characterization and a running theme in her story that I find both endearing and interesting. On the one hand, she is the typical teenager who doesn't want to be seen or treated as a child, which is adorable. On the other hand, as a queen, she really can't have people (be it her subjects, her advisors, her allies or her enemies) treating her as a child or thinking of her as a child, so it makes sense that she is constantly trying to establish to people that she is not a child and should not be treated as such.

[atopvisenyashill]

What would've happened if Cersei and Jaime only had daughters?

To be completely honest, I think Robert goes hard in the PAINT for his daughters to inherit after him. Joffrey (Jocelyn, perhaps) will almost definitely be a handful the realm is not prepared to deal with because if we think a son of Robert, Cersei, and Jaime was going to be insane that's nothing compared to what an oldest girl and heir presumptive is going to be like. She's not likely to be as strong willed and kind as Myrcella because Mycrella is like that due to the abusive behavior of her parents and older brother; more like, we'd have a sort of mini-Cersei who believes other women are weak, that might makes right, and that as the heir presumptive she is worth more than all others around her. She's not likely to be quite as violent as Joffrey but Saera Targaryen did just fine torturing the court fool instead of innocent cats, so it's likely our Jocelyn Baratheon is going to act similarly.

At the same time - if Tommen comes out a girl, Cersei is going to start getting desperate to have a boy. Maybe she and Jaime get riskier and start fucking more often, where they're more likely to get caught. Maybe Cersei switches to other men and if Jaime gets wind of that (if the main series is anything to go by) he is going to react badly. While all this is going on, Jon Arryn and Robert are discussing succession. I'm saying it again but I think Robert is stubborn enough in the same way Balon and Stannis are, and would push his daughter to be named Crown Princess over Stannis or Renly, and that brings up all the issues that Rhaenyra (and Rhaena and Daenerys the First and Rhaenys) would bring up, the main issue of which is: CAN THE IRON THRONE PASS TO A WOMAN???

Slight historical detour here: Despite Maester Munkin's bitch ass opinions (if you recall, when debating whether Baela or Rhaena should be Aegon III's heir, Munkin simply says that a woman can't sit the Iron Throne because even though there is no other option but the dragon twins, because as Rhaenys says, men would rather put the realm to the torch than let a woman rule over them), and yet after the Dance there is a point where the Crown's heir is a woman despite male relatives being alive. Aerys I acknowledges Aelora (daughter of his next closest sibling, Rhaegel) as his heir but when Aelora dies, he doesn't then acknowledge Daenora as his heir (even though she's Rhaegel's youngest) but Maekar as his heir. And mind you, little Maegor is put forth not as Daenora's heir but as Aerion's heir instead (and then dismissed on account of being a literal infant). So women can be heirs potentially, if the King feels like it, but they can't inherit nor can their children. You can see where the problem is here, lol, lmao.

I think Jon Arryn is going to continue pushing for a male heir but at the same time, Jon has his female line backup heir ready in Harry Hardyng and the Vale has been ruled by an heiress turned Ruling Lady before in Jeyne Arryn. If Robert pushes for it, there's certainly a chance Jon agrees that from now on the Iron Throne will follow Andal law, wherein a daughter comes before an uncle. Indeed, Stannis also sticks by Andal law (he tells Renly directly that Renly would be heir over Shireen, because it's assumed Shireen would be his heir. After that, he makes sure to tell his men directly that Shireen is the new heir. Stannis, at least, also feels that Andal law should prevail so it's not a far stretch that Robert would agree and fight Jon Arryn over this). That makes the marriage match for Jocelyn Baratheon 100% more important because her husband's family must be aware that they may have to help fight for her claim AND it gives Dorne a potential in to push for absolute primogeniture.

This ripples out to Dany and Viserys in Essos. If Dany can make an actual claim to inherit something (because right now, her claim is tenuous at best under Targaryen rule! Women are not allowed to sit the throne!!) because the Throne is now a bit more egalitarian AND she has dragons? I do think she catches Varys' attention a little earlier in that scenario.

(if Robert really wants to he can engage Joffrey to Robb. You'd run into the same issues with Corlys/Laenor/Lucerys though since there haven't been enough prince-consorts to explain what an heir would do if he's consort, vs an heiress like Myriah was required to give up her seat to her younger brother. This would mean an earlier - and likely longer - conversation with Ned about betrothals. If Robert really wants his heir to marry a Stark, he can tell Ned that Robb can marry Jocelyn and either his second born inherits or Bran can inherit and Robb gives up his claim to Lord of Winterfell and set the precedent one way or the other. Then he'd do well to look at Dorne and the Reach for Myrcella and Tommen because he needs to shore up support while the girls are still young if he wants to avoid another gender based civil war. Otherwise, looking to the Reach, the Marches, and Dorne is an excellent idea to head off any rebellion issues. Most of the Blackfyre supporters were in the Marches and the Reach which makes sense because the Marches have a continuous geographic & ethnic based beef with Dorne, and the Reach is filled with shitty fantasy catholics. If he gets most of them on his side like Daeron II tried to, he can get in front of any rebellions coming from Stannis or Renly loyalists early).

Of course....the problem is that the children aren't actually Robert's. So while he's going ham on making sure his daughter is inheriting, Stannis and Jon are still getting suspcious as to why all three kids look golden haired, and Jaime and Cersei are still sneaking around...what happens then? Mess, is what happens, hahahaha.

[horizon-verizon]

https://www.tumblr.com/horizon-verizon/712224861642162176/i-dont-understand-why-people-use-the-book-as-an

well i think the reason why Aemond has turned out to be the "dutiful son" because at first the showrunners didn't want Daeron to be in the show, and it was Daeron who has the dutiful son/the most popular son of Alicent and the closest to her, so obviously they give him a lot of Daeron's personality traits. But since Grrm confirmed that Daeron will be in S2 maybe we will see more of Book!Aemond characterization or maybe it's me just being too hopeful that we will not get more of the whitewashing of Aemond, and it has been very annoying that they literally adapted Mushroom's claims about every and each character except Losermond. They're very close to turning him into Gary Stu. Also Helaena is highly underdeveloped she doesn't even feel like she is human, she is more like a mere plot device. and they didn't put any foundation for their made up ship. Is it because he said he will marry her? will that because he is oh so dutiful and cares about his house legacy. they looked at each other? Well Aegon kept staring at Rhaenyra during the dinner scene, does that means he is in love with her or has fathered Aegon iii and Viserys ii? This is silly.

Yes, it is silly, yet anon that is what we have as a reason for why some fans ship those two.

Even if Daeron hadn't been in the show, Aemond's characterization should not change, because he was what he was and it is integral to how the Dance played out as it did toward the end.

And how could one not have Daeron and his bungling of the taking of Tumbleton, how things went down there, and his burning Bitterbridge thinking Lady Caswell was responsible for Maelor's death?! Were they thinking of making Ormund Hightower the leader of that part of the green forces?! Like, how boring, if so!

Hate all this for Helaena, the underdevelopment. The lack of it. She's a nonentity, despite having such power. Gone to waste altogether. Not even scenes with her trying to use it for her family of either side or see her try to connect with Rhaenyra (what stops her? fear of repercussions? direct tellings from Otto and Alicent? disinterest? depression? we'll never know because the writers think that action>character development). She may have only been mentioned at most 10 times throughout the Dance and never played an active role besides killing herself and talking one quote of displeasure and sarcasm in canon, but the show had its opportunity to make her a real person and it instead decided to make her a nearly silent decoration that happens to see images in her head that everyone just...brushes off?!

I'm afraid I can't be optimistic as you about Aemond's whitewashing ending by the first episodes of the next season. In any first season, you set up your character's motivations and values to lead into the rest of the next episodes until its end, where their selves either undergo great changes or continue to serve a lighter purpose -- depending on how central they are and what the writer/director wants to do with them. Everything hinges on what's presented in that first season, in the first portrayal of that character, in the first turning points in their personal development. For Aemond, that was him in episode 6 being bullied due to not having a dragon by his own brother and the V boys, him claiming Vhagar and "proving" his Targness/strength, and him obviously eager to battle at least with Daemon.

The firsts are not only supposed to let the audience know who this character is and why we should care about them OR what get us hyped for the rest of more rising action; they set this character up and lets us know what sort of person/role they are and what the writers want to do with their arc, and it presents their perspective of that character and their arc.

So if we see Aemond consistently get whitewashed and it being done in the first season...there's a 98% certainty that he will continue to be whitewashed. The other two percent is the abused hope I'm currently putting up only for me to pretend I never said anything at all if I'm wrong (I jest).

[esther-dot]

Torrehn Stark bent the knee to Aegon Targ near Trident. Robert Baratheon killed Rhaegar at the battle of Trident. Joffery was attacked by Nymeria near Trident and Arya threw his sword into river. Dany dreamed herself in position of Rhaegar at battle of Trident and burning the usurpers. The Trident is basically showing feud between Starks and Dany. Also Joffery, a blonde incest prince, was singing to stark girl(Sansa) and talking about Rhaegar and the other stark girl defeated him.

I don't think I ever read meta on it, but there was a supposition that the Jon (Stark) v Dany (Targ) thing would end at the Trident because of the emphasis on it throughout the story. AGOT especially seemed to point to that because of how frequently it was referenced. We even have Dany's view of it

Yet sometimes Dany would picture the way it had been, so often had her brother told her the stories. The midnight flight to Dragonstone, moonlight shimmering on the ship's black sails. Her brother Rhaegar battling the Usurper in the bloody waters of the Trident and dying for the woman he loved. The sack of King's Landing by the ones Viserys called the Usurper's dogs, the lords Lannister and Stark. Princess Elia of Dorne pleading for mercy as Rhaegar's heir was ripped from her breast and murdered before her eyes. (AGOT, Daenerys I)

contrasted with Jon's view in their very first chapters:

Next had come King Robert himself, with Lady Stark on his arm. The king was a great disappointment to Jon. His father had talked of him often: the peerless Robert Baratheon, demon of the Trident, the fiercest warrior of the realm, a giant among princes. Jon saw only a fat man, red-faced under his beard, sweating through his silks. He walked like a man half in his cups. (AGOT, Jon I)

It really does seem like a big reason for it is to make some connections between Dany/the Starks because this part:

"I hit him," she said, wonder in her voice. Now that it was over, it seemed like some strange dream that she had dreamed. "Ser Jorah, do you think … he'll be so angry when he gets back …" She shivered. "I woke the dragon, didn't I?"

Ser Jorah snorted. "Can you wake the dead, girl? Your brother Rhaegar was the last dragon, and he died on the Trident. Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake."

His blunt words startled her. It seemed as though all the things she had always believed were suddenly called into question. "You … you swore him your sword …" (AGOT, Daenerys III)

Makes me immediately think about Jon, who is Rhaegar’s son, a dragon, and he will rise from the dead, and will likely be the one to kill Dany, and maybe Martin will do that at the Trident. 

I had never really thought about how much the Trident comes up in Dany's chapters before. It’s a lot, and it’s a funny thing because even though she wasn’t there, Martin writes it as a personally meaningful, traumatizing event. That’s pretty fascinating when we think that Sansa (and Arya) are the ones who did experience something that haunts them there. That reminds me of how Dany has this idea of the injustice done to her family because she doesn’t truly know what happened (she has to learn from second hand sources) whereas the Starks know what happened to theirs. Dany’s father’s death saved countless lives, he was an unjust king who deserved death, but Arya and Sansa had to watch their beloved father die unjustly before them.

Oh shoot. This is a similar to how Dany romanticizes Rhaegar (because she didn’t know him) whereas the Starks knew Robb. Rhaegar died fighting for his father who needed to be removed from the throne (something it sounds like even he knew), whereas Robb was fighting for their father/freedom against an unjust king.

I’ve always thought of this story as having a major Stark v Lannister issue to resolve but I’m so caught up in the immediate context, but historically, we have the Stark v Targ issue, not just with Robert’s Rebellion, but with the initial conquering of Westeros, and since Dany is so far away/uninvolved with Westeros rn, this stuff is what will make the endgame of Jon/the Starks defeating her meaningful. It really will feel like reliving history, huh?

So many ways to look at this, lots and lots of intersections. I’ll have to pay more attention to the Trident stuff when reading from now on, anon.

Thank you for the message!