#like sorry for the hot take but white lgbt+ ppl specifically are becoming so bad at this....

[autisticstarseed]

in other words. again i dont rly think u can compare slurs across different types of oppression but it sure is interesting that disabled ppl, despite being The single largest minority group on earth, are still always seen as the weakest/most vulnerable. so that whether its an instance of truly caring or just edgelords trying to avoid the social consequences/getting your ass beat you ppl will come forward to denounce the n word and the f slur when it keeps your twitter followers up but then you see ur favs say smth is r*tarded and suddenly you just straight up cant read..,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, u guys rly do not care abt our oppression and also think we cannot defend ourselves at all. m. sad for you

[do-you-have-a-flag]

most LGBT/non-white fans aren't happy with how there was still no LGBT representation canonically and how they reduced poe to stereotypical latino tropes, made finn's arc the same as tfa basically (and sidelined him in for adam driver which is just racism lmao) and how underused and underwritten a lot of the characters were/how they mischracterized rey/how they REALLY mischaracterized luke and like the overall pacing was p bad, so white ppl liked it and dumbass kylo stans did too but that it

first off, why u anon, i’m not mean to people who message me generally and i won’t send followers after you because that’s a shitty thing to do, now i have to make a big long response publicly instead of using the messenger app, sorry everyone, long post incoming:I WANT LGBT representation to be canon in star wars but i know that they’re not gonna do it and it’s frustrating but not unexpected. Big budget genre FILMS (tv is different) are so lacking in LGBT content, it’s frustrating that off the top of my head the only example i can think of where it’s not sub-textualised via aliens is Sulu in the Star Trek reboot universe.

but let’s look honestly at how the people who run star wars and the actors responded to questions about LGBT content in interviews: there is spoilers blackout aversion, and actors explicitly supporting fans for their interpretations of characters but at no point was there a promise to show that sort of representation.

Disney has shown before that if they’re going to include LGBT content in their big films they do address it directly, much was made of Lefou in beauty and the beast and there was backlash because the actual content was so minor and still fairly subtextual. 

With the Last Jedi no promises were maid so not getting LGBT content is frustrating for me and others but I can’t fault the film for it only the creators and a criticism of studios and directors and writers does not mean the movie itself is flawed for that specific reason. At least in my view. It’s blaming an absence of a feature that was never promised. would it be better with that feature? YES! but i also think it would have been better for various writing changes but the writing choices that were made are what we have to assess it on.

As to Poe being stereotypically Latino, I don’t live in a country with enough of a latino population to have much insight on that but I will say that I don’t understand this argument. 

my PERSONAL view of Poe in this film is that last time we didn’t get any depth to his character outside of friendly heroic pilot, this time we are starting to be introduced to his flaws, that being his inability to see the big picture, he always makes good strategies and plans and is a great leader and has a sense of humour, these are good qualities, and when he is called impulsive it’s by generals who have the experience to think about the bigger picture where he goes for the most damage on a small scale, Poe has a very complimentary arc to Fin in that they both have to shift their thinking when the resistance is weakened because saving people becomes more important than always beating the bad guys.

so from that understanding of his character I don’t understand what stereotypes are being used here? genuinely please let me know because is it that he’s “hot-headed”? it’s a war and they are losing and because of that he makes the wrong decision and lashes out when he is restricted and believes his superior is making the wrong choice so all the “hot-headed” stuff is really just character complexity and his prominence in the plot is the reason why it’s only applied to him. IDK what other stereotypes there are i legit haven’t seen that criticism actually explained in detail yet so if any latinx fans can let me know i’d be glad

Fin’s arc isn’t the same, yes he’s been sidelined and its annoying because I hate the thing they sidelined him for too but when we do focus on his character they evolve his problems from TFA: running away out of fear and self loathing becomes running from one responsibility because he believes they’re a lost cause in the moment and wants to protect Rey, which becomes planning to sacrifice himself to lash out at first order  in a way that mirror’s Poe’s journey because they both have to think better than that about who they’re fighting for. 

There are so many characters to juggle in the film and by partnering Finn up with Rose they do detract from his character development but only to allow her to help him and introduce her to the stage at the same time as moving the plot along and setting up things for the next movie thematically.  Finn was underserved but it was due to a writing puzzle of balancing an ensemble cast and ultimately at this point his story is supportive of the main plot but not directly a part of it and they could have done that differently but again that’s a writing flaw but not what I would call the worst part of the film i think people took it too hard and would like to hear a response to my reading of Finn’s place in the story in some detail too.

 Also I love Rose and her dynamic with Finn was my fav and desperately needed because they keep having Finn Poe and Rey be separated in these films and we needed that friendly banter and mutual support space filled and Rose is honestly the heart and soul of the resistance even if the casino sequence was written in a very on the nose blatant way these films are for a very broad audience and some people need that stuff spelled out for them. (i’ve seen TLJ twice and both times i think most people in the audience missed the kid using the force at the end which i thought was wonderfully subtle before his posing became blatant visually with the broom)

underuse and underwriting are both side effects of the ensemble cast and i’m willing to forgive the clumsiness of it generally but you’re correct about Rey’s writing, I’ve said it before but everything about her and kylo and snoke and Luke contained in the scenes between the second force skype conversation and Kylo waking up on the floor is the characters making bad choices, that’s why it feels out of character. the rest of the film even when characters make mistakes everyone is behaving consistently and there’s a balance but in that entire segment of the film all four characters make the wrong decisions. the results of these scenes afterwards is fine but i wish they hadn’t decided to have rey trust kylo so readily, considering her character history as a scavenger you know she’d be more skeptical than that.  And with Luke his reticence to tell her the truth is frustrating because that’s what happened to him regarding his father and he should know better, I think the moment of weakness misread as utter betrayal was interesting, not a great choice on the writing side but i’m willing to deal with it. outside of those scenes though it’s like the competent writing suddenly returned! 

Bad pacing? yeah, but it’s the middle film in a trilogy there was a lot of ground to cover.

also listen there’s nothing wrong with being a fan of villians in a work of fiction and personally i loved watching hux suffer and kylo get the door slammed in his face and just because i find his character entertaining doesn’t mean i wanted the rey/kylo romance teasing that happened. I have to accept that the writers are going for redemption arc stuff here but honestly give me complex pathetic villain who dies dramatically at the end and i’ll be happy, 

I wrote out all these paragraphs because you made a whoooole lot of generalisations and i wanted to respond with personal thoughts and specificity,\

 I can’t speak for groups i’m not a part of but i can give my personal reasons for liking the film. at the end of the day it’s not the worst star wars film and of my expectations of the franchise some flaws are a part of it. I LIKE goofiness intentional or not in my genre fiction.

 Representation-wise the LGBT stuff would have been wonderfull but as of right now it wasn’t something i felt should be expected but instead it is something I think should be pressured onto the creators to include canonically because there’s literally no reason not to include it that isn’t getting money from garbage people who hate diversity. 

On a casting level i love the inclusivity of race in the cast, not just with Finn, Poe, and Rose being the majority of our new young heroes, but also of background characters because that sort of understated representation is important too. Do i think the writing could be better? sure, but as far as stereotyping goes i don’t believe there’s deliberate and malicious intent there, any flaws are unintentional on the writers side and their personal biases, but personally I still don’t see the specific problem you’re citing here and would like to hear more about it because I don’t get it.

also pls chill with the “white people and kylo stans” attitude here because i get why people don’t like adam driver, but you’re being deliberately escalating in your language and i’m not okay with that, it’s a false equivalence of the concepts of white complacency when it comes to representation with….. people who like the main villain. 

He’s the main bad guy. he’s played by an actor cast with his looks in mind because he’s one of the few villains who doesn’t spend the whole film behind a mask or with cgi or makeup effects obscuring him, he’s placed in a position of power and given sympathetic elements because a complex villain is more interesting than, oh, say, every simple evil marvel villain who wants to destroy the earth (and I say that as someone who likes marvel films) they knew they couldn’t recapture the appeal of darth vader so they aimed for audience enjoyment in a different way and it worked and it’s pointless to be mad at fans of star wars for liking it’s main villain?

 I’m not saying fans who take it too far by going “he did nothing wrong”/”his victimisation excuses his actions” or who woobie-fy him or who shit on other characters are in the right here, they’re not, and it is frustrating when there’s so many good characters that others lose screen time and complexity to focus on him when he’s a shitty fascist who wants power for himself. 

just like, de-escalate your aggression here because i’m talkative as hell and I also want better representation but I’m also one hundo percent about viewing media and people complexly and in terms of the fiction i thought it was a good film and in terms of the choices by the creators in how they crafted that film i thought they did okay but could have done waaay better and that’s what fans want. 

i’m not gonna speak for most LGBT/non white fans because I’m only a part of one of those categories personally but i’m SURE a chunk of the audience responses in those reviews trashing the movie are from straight white cis dudes who are mad about all the POC in the film or goofy writing choices they feel undermines their view of the movie and they’re objectively wrong about a lot of things but their opinions are still added to that review percentage and the only way to know who thought what from what background and coming from what perspective is to go through every review and make a chart and that sort of research isn’t something i’ve done and you probably haven’t done it either so we can only speak from our view from discussing with friends and online and on tumblr i have seen some lgbt and poc  responses and most of them are positive, a couple of people aren’t and that’s only my dashboard but i can’t assume it represents the communities as a whole

so anyone seeing this long ass post who hasn’t unfollowed me: what’s your opinion?