#like saying 'damian cuts tim's line' doesn't really explain why that happens or what it actually means to either character

[casscainmainly]

When discussing Batfam relationships, there's a tendency to focus on out-of-context 'events'. For example, when discussing Tim and Dick, many people bring up the 'giving away Robin' event without talking about their reconciliation immediately after or their lengthy history of love and brotherhood. Same goes for Tim and Damian; they are almost entirely defined by the early events of their relationship (namely the dinosaur murder attempt and the line-cutting), rather than their more amicable interactions later on, or their nuanced and complicated feelings for each other.

This is possibly why people want Cass and Jason to get along - there's no 'event' to make them dislike each other, so people don't think too hard about whether they would actually be good companions. On the flip side, many people use Batgirl (2008) to say Cass and Dick don't get along, without discussing their reconciliation in Batman and the Outsiders + evidence of their camaraderie elsewhere. (Also ignoring that 2008 is deliberately OOC for Dick).

This is completely understandable. Events are often glossed over in canon, so some of this behaviour stems from desiring a bigger unpacking of certain moments. Also, nobody has read every comic in existence, and of course you'd base your dynamics on what you have read.

However, I think it's important to remember that events don't exist in isolation, and relationships are defined not only by events but by how people interpret and learn from them. Singular events rarely define entire relationships. Personalities, belief systems, and relationships to others affect how events are viewed (case in point: to Tim, the line-cutting is more of an excuse to beat Damian into the ground, rather than a threat to his life. Damian is way more affected by the hit list than Tim is by the line-cutting).

Events definitely have a place in relationships, and I make headcanons based on singular events all the time. But including context, consequences, personalities, and perspectives into discussions makes for richer and more meaningful interpretations.

[tarvek-sturmvoraus]

srsly i'd love to see tim come face to face with the same crises dick has faced when it comes to damian. the same ones we keep judging dick for (yeah me too, i'm guilty). we keep going on about how tim would've been a great mentor to damian and i have a lot of fun thinking about this too but when you think about it, would he really? can he really do better than dick? if the angry child decided to hurt someone and was successful, would tim be able to handle it with grace? i think he'd also be vulnerable to the temptation of bias. would he be able to keep on top of damian WHILE being batman? what if damian comes later on, and he ends up going after duke? wouldn't the same criticisms against dick apply to tim too?

guess i'm just curious about how you see tim reacting to the things dick has had to deal with.

i actually know very little about what dick had to deal with while he and damian were batman and robin and im only saying i think tim would have been a better mentor for damian based on personality vibes, probably a healthy dose of fanon, and also the fact that after like a year of dick mentoring him damian still tried to kill tim by cutting his grappling line. so apparently he didn't do that great a job!

maybe tim couldn't have done better, but he would have definitely done differently. first of all, i think he would have been more likely to reach damian on a logical level rather than emotional - explaining things like parts of the social contract from a strictly utilitarian standpoint on why he should adhere to those rules when damian doesn't or can't understand emotionally because he's a brainwashed child with no context in which to assign these things value.

i also think tim might have done better based on past experience with bruce, whose behavior while out of control after jason wasn't too dissimilar to how damian acts in the field, with a lack of impulse control and general recklessness on top of excessive force. from what i have seen of dick's run as batman, he tended to throw his hands up in exasperation and let damian do what he wanted a lot. maybe i'm wrong about the frequency of that, but we have a significant body of evidence that suggests if he were to take damian on as a responsibility, tim would never relent like that.

as far as all of this happening while tim is also batman instead of dick, i...don't see a major difference? if anything that might go more smoothly since if tim got the cowl, unless we're also swapping which character is going on brucequest (personally i like sending jason in tim's stead rather than dick), he'd have nightwing by his side to help with protecting the city, even if tim is taking charge of damian's training - which they might not have initially realized would also mean becoming damian's primary carer, just based on how that kid understands training/caretaking dynamics.