#like in totk you get to a point where you think youre at endgame and they throw in like three more fights

[eepybogboy]

ive been putting off the final quest(s) in bg3 for far too long for a man who knows he's gonna play it again at least another two times

[blueskittlesart]

As you approach the endgame of TotK, what is your overall opinion of the narrative compared to BotW (and by extension other 3d Zelda titles)?

wanted to save this one until i had actually finished the game to form complete thoughts and im glad i did!! because i think the endgame of totk is REALLY important to the overall cohesiveness of the story. let's get into it

i have sung botw's praises for the past 5 years specifically because the game is in my opinion perfectly cohesive. there is not a single thing in the game that feels out of place or thrown in without thought or narrative backing. i've lamented the details of the game, the way the story is told implicitly through the worldbuilding its themes are echoed in every facet of its gameplay. i sincerely believe totk hits these marks as well. its theming is more overt than botw, but it still keeps it consistent and cohesive across the board and the way the world and theming evolved from botw feels very natural. I don't think it's BETTER than botw, but it wasn't really SUPPOSED to be. totk and botw are two halves of the same story, and i think they FEEL that way. totk feels like the second half of botw, which is exactly what it is. no need to improve on perfection.

totk takes a theme that was already present in botw--healing, destruction and regrowth, and expands upon it. we are presented in totk with a hyrule around 5 or 6 years removed from what we last saw in botw, and there are noticeable changes. it is more populated. npcs we met in botw have grown into themselves. some have started families. new cities are forming. the enormous map that we knew is relatively unchanged, but the difference now is that it's so POPULATED. there are so many more PEOPLE. in almost every notable location, including ones that were COMPLETELY deserted in botw, people have now appeared. they are building or researching or travelling or whatever. we are shown a hyrule that is GROWING from the desolation we saw in botw. what once seemed broken beyond repair is slowly but surely being rebuilt, BY PEOPLE. totk's focus is undeniably on the PEOPLE of hyrule and how their work and perseverance has helped hyrule begin to heal.

this is the background framing, though, which, in a good game, ought to be echoed in its main storyline. and it IS. link and zelda in this game (and to a lesser extent the sages) are hyrule, the kingdom broken and desolate. link forced to give up his arm, zelda thrown into a thousand-year-old war which she ultimately sacrifices her sentience to. the sages dealing with corruption and destruction in their own ways after the regional phenomena caused by the upheaval. initially, all these things seem unchangeable. link's arm is so broken it must be replaced entirely. zelda will likely never return to her human form. the sages are each backed into their respective corners, unable to fix their peoples' problems alone. but none of these wounds prove to be truly unhealable. they just can't be done ALONE. link needs rauru, sonia, and the sages to get back zelda and his arm. the sages need link to save their people. this is where i think totk really shines as a continuation of botw, because the whole point of the initial calamity in botw is that link and zelda were ALONE when they faced it. the champions were ALONE in their divine beasts. they fell in botw because the world in which they were raised valued self-sufficiency above all. the champions called for help and no one came, and so they died alone. link had no one to help him when he faced the calamity, and so he was forced to flee, mortally wounded. in totk, link is NEVER alone. there is always some comforting presence, a guide, a FRIEND to assist him. rauru in the opening segment. purah and the sages later on. he is never alone in a desolate world as he was in botw, which is the whole POINT. he wins because he has an army behind him. he wins because hyrule's strength is in its people, in their stubborn perseverance, in their refusal to fall at the hands of ganondorf. rauru says himself "even if something were to happen to me, both my kingdom and the peace it brings--those will endure for generations to come." compare the sentiment of rauru, a king who relied on his sages and trusted in the strength of his people, to rhoam, a king who expected individualism and sacrifice, and it's clear why hyrule fell to destruction under rhoam but endured long after rauru's death.

tldr i think it's a good game and a good SEQUEL. i dont think it stands up perfectly on its own, but i don't think it was ever SUPPOSED to stand on its own. totk is a continuation of botw's narrative, so of course botw's narrative is integral when analyzing totk. the central theming is strong, it's echoed well in the worldbuilding and side quests, and in general all the pieces fall into place very nicely. i think it's a really good game and was well worth the wait!

[soul-of-rei]

ok lets do this

massive spoilers for totk endgame after the cut!

i wanted to start it off right . went from the skyview tower then paraglided my way down the chasm

there was a good five minutes when i just spent the entire time being lost and not knowing where the path is in the horriblin area AJSJSJAJA IM SO SORRY TO LINK FOR MAKING HIM STAND IN THE GLOOM FOR WHAT MUST HAVE BEEN FIVE MINUTES ALL BC I COULDNT SEE UP

theres a room ik i missed bc i found an alternate pathway to get out of the area where you couldnt call the sages AJSJAJAJ thought i was clever . still couldnt end up calling the sages at one point </3

if we had access to bombs early and zelda figured out she was gonna be a Wyrm would she have requested link to take pictures of her w that mural . she prolly would have

HOW DID THEY TOP OFF THE CREEPINESS OF THE INTRO . DIVING DOWN INTO THE GLOOM LAIR WAS A LEGITIMATE HOLY SHIT MOMENT

boss rush but ganondorf forgot im fucking loaded with bombs and five shot lynel bows . EASY

FOR A WHILE THERE I PANICKED AND THOUGHT THEYD REALLY MAKE ME FIGHT THE MUCKTOROCK AGAIN I WOULD HAVE CRIED but also i needed a picture anyway of the possessed construct

but turns out that was all just a cutscene and they did the bullshit plot seperation :/ I WOULD HAVE ACTUALLY LOVED TO FIGHT ALL OF THEM AGAIN W THE HELP OF THE SAGES THEMSELVES AND NOT JUST THEIR VOWS (minus the mucktorok fuck that wo the low gravity)

but doesnt that say how much theyve developed that they dont need link anymore to fight their respective scourges !!

couldnt have taken more than a minute with baseline demon king . I STILL HAVE 4 SAVAGE LYNEL 5 SHOT BOWS AND A HUNDRED BOMBS

ok actually though the second form is tough ngl especially the last phase . props to nintendo for making it so that ganondorf could actually dodge as well as link AJSJSJAJ forcing me to use the parry mechanic and actually Get Good <33

ganondorf get your own thing . eat your sword idk just dont plagiarize zelda 😤

LINK MUST HAVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY HURT WHILE BEING TOSSED AROUND IN THE DEMON DRAGONS MOUTH LIKE THAT . WHERE ARE MY WHUMP FICS FOR THIS

the entire fight was just going zelda zelda zELDA ZELDA ZELDA CATCH ME-

here i had my totk equivalent of me shooting arrows at dark beast with just an ancient bow . i shot the thingies on the dragons back with my 5 shot bomb arrows

also the light dragon is so cute and tiny against this giant mass of hatred and gloom and malice draconified as well teehee <33

ALSO ALSO ALSO love the callback of the swirling mass of ganon from botw into totk as the jntroduction to the demon dragon <333

IM HOLDING A RIGHT AFTER I TAKE A SCREENSHOT WAIT FOR ME ZELDA

ill leave this in a seperate post but i really am so . ehh about the explanation of how zelda was brought back ? like idk i just think my own hc for how it worked makes more sense to me ASJSJSJJ

WHAT WAS THAT PAUSE DURING THE RECREATION OF THE VOW THE SAGES MADE WHEN THEY LOOKED AT LINK . WHAT IS THE IMPLICATION HERE

ok the shot of minerus construct all broken down after she moved on is cool im prolly using that as a wallpaper somewhere

overall 8.5/10 game :> it cant top botw for me but i love the game for what it is <3

[hugintheraven]

So, thoughts on how to do this. First off, we steal heavily from OOT. Yes, Nintendo already mined that vein heavily, but "OOT-inspired" is a good way to get buy-in from the sort of people who'd hate this idea on sight. And OOT is good, which helps. That said...I'm thinking we go more Dishonored for this one's gameplay. Zelda's Sheikah-trained for her safety, she's been sneaking out of the castle her whole life, and she's not a fighter and not brave. She avoids fights, stabs monsters in the back, and she does whatever it takes to regain her kingdom. Nonlinear dungeons are a good way to justify a smaller main region than the very expansive and expensive BotW/TotK.

Part of the difficulty is that we need to contrast her with Link, but in a way that still feels similar enough to be the same series. I plan to lean into Link is Courage, Zelda is Wisdom as different motivations more than different gameplay elements.

We open with Link as the playable char. This is the tutorial level/basis for the demo/what a lot of the marketing shows. Specifically, Endgame!Link. The Master Sword is glowing and one-shots everything. His hearts are outlined. When you open the inventory, it's full of cool icons(all greyed out except the ~3 that we want people to use that will specifically come back to Zelda early on). He's also very overconfident(we can show this in a variety of ways, rescued guards, talking advice fairy, animations, whatever).

And he's attacking Ganon's Castle. Climbing up a tower, learning basic movement and combat along the way, until we reach Ganon. Full boar. Zelda is locked behind a magic wall, Link decides to fight Ganon, then rescue her. It goes badly. Ganon is immune to damage, Link goes to 0 in 3 hits, but refuses to retreat or change tactics. On the final hit, Link fires his hookshot-analogue to try to dodge and it hits Zelda's cage, freeing her before the hookshot is crushed beneath Ganon's hoof*. Ganon roars, all hope is lost...then Zelda grabs the blade from the end of the hookshot, classic ninja pose, and decides to use some Wisdom and GTFO's the nearest window.

NOW we control Zelda. And this is where we start letting the player off the leash a bit. Dungeons in this game, including this, are basically "you start at A, there's something you want at Z, big monster Q is sitting on it, and there's a bunch of small monsters, droppable traps, and noisemakers between and around everything I just mentioned. Figure it out." There's an armory with a bunch of weapons to loot that the game points you to, dumb monsters standing next to high cliffs, etc. This is also where we introduce the true helper mechanic for this game, press (blah) for Zelda to remember something helpful she read/learned. This is in the form of Zelda's voice reciting her lessons to herself, possibly with color commentary on it from modern Zelda. She's a character, this is how we give her personality when she's mostly alone.

And by the time Zelda's escaped the castle and starts heading for a town, we see her having swapped her tattered dress for civilian clothes she can move in, she has a brace of throwing knives for ranged combat, a dagger up close, and the Triforce of Wisdom has accessed her first spell. Over the course of the game she gets more gear and spells like normal, but very slanted towards the magic/ninja versions over Link's more soldier versions from the opening. No shield, for example, she needs to dodge. And the Bow comes late, with light throwing weapons being far more common.

If the player tries to return to the Castle before gathering the 7(?) Macguffins, Zelda freezes and retreats. It's not shielded by a wall, she's just smart enough to be scared.

Which means when she finally DOES reach the point of being able to take on Ganon, the player feels it. You have all the spells, your pouch is loaded with explosives, and when Zelda approaches the castle this time and is confident enough to face it, that's justified. And when the player reaches Ganon's throne room after sneaking or murdering repeats of every giant beast you've faced so far, and there's Link behind a magic wall, the solution should be obvious. He's weak after being freed, so you still have to fight Ganon, tangle him up, and expose his weakpoint for Link's Master Sword to strike the blows necessary to seal the darkness.

*you can absolutely skip this fight by shooting her cage at the start, which I expect will make speedrunners very happy once they figure it out and hateful until then

nintendo needs to hire me so i can write a game where zelda is the playable protag and then make sure all the prelaunch marketing has zero mention of playable zelda and implies link is the mc