#like if they got into an argument. a legitimate argument that mimi isn’t backing down from?

[venti-death-watch]

my current favorite thing to think about is lyney thinking he knows freminet better than vice versa but freminet knowing that he knows lyney better than lyney knows him

[shihalyfie]

hi! this is out of curiosity, since when do you start to watch adv series in its original jap. ver.? do you find any difficulty in trying to adapt, get used to it? like the voices, names of the characters, music, the way the story is presented. i first watch the series in my own language and the english ver (not the us ver., more like asian english ver.) before i encounter the original jap. ver. during my teenage years and get used to it over time until now. i'm okay with dub ver, but i always prefer, love to watch the jap. ver. more than other dubs.

(Note: This was cleared up later with the asker and various parties, so mostly leaving this for posterity: while it's not universally well-known, "J*p" is a slur originating from WWII, so I ask that people please be careful about not using that even as an abbreviation.)

Regardless of language, I've always been interested in original versions of any dubbed media for as long as I've been consuming media (I won't say I'm necessarily a purist, I just happen to have a natural curiosity for what must have been the original source), so I'd been interested in the Japanese version of Digimon ever since I first got into it, and had been following it ever since it started getting translated. If you know anything about Digimon and subbing, it actually took some years for most early Digimon series to get decent quality subs in full, so I thank everyone involved for their hard work, especially since the prevailing attitude at the time was that "the (American) English dub didn't change anything substantial anyway" (ignoring the fact that there would still be good reason to have the Japanese version on hand even if that were the case...) and the demand for it was even more niche than it is now.

I didn't really have problems getting used to names. I did have to get used to the voices, because since I got in with the American English dub initially, I had a strong attachment to the voices I'd associated with them there (and I still do, even if I haven't fully watched the dub in years!), so there would be things like Yamato (Kazama Yuuto)'s voice being much deeper than I'd expected, or Agumon's voice being completely different in general, but I got used to it quickly because I felt like everyone fit their character perfectly in their own way. The music was a bit surprising, but I was never too incredibly attached to the original music anyway so it was mostly just discovering something new and fun. Other than that, I guess I was incredibly surprised by how different of an impression 02 gave me, especially Daisuke; having been eyeing 02 in Japanese since translation efforts first started, I knew there had been some changes (Hurricane Touchdown...) but the actual degree really surprised me, especially since, as I said, the prevailing attitude was that "it didn't change much". Part of the reason I write so extensively about how much the 02 dub changed is that I personally witnessed firsthand how much my perception of the series abruptly shifted after my first time watching it in Japanese, and how nearly impossible it became to hold analytical conversations about certain smaller details with people who mistakenly over-applied dub things to the Japanese version because "we're actually talking about two different things, aren't we..." never comes up thanks to how prevalent this myth is. Driving this home further, I don't have this issue at all with fans who had their own local dubs more closely adapted from the Japanese version, so the problem really isn't whether it was in Japanese or not, or whether it was a dub or not, as much as the fact "the script really did change that much".

Currently, I guess I would say I have a pretty complicated relationship with Digimon's American English dubs. Like I said, I don't necessarily think I'm a purist or anything, and even though I have an increased stake in watching things in Japanese since I can actually understand much more about the language than I used to, I myself still enjoy a good dub and also completely understand and appreciate the nature of what dubbing entailed in those days, the dub's role in getting Digimon to a wider audience, the reason people prefer dubs and how important this one is to people, and, heck, I still love the voice actors. At the same time, this "it didn't change anything significant" myth has been really damaging and frustrating to deal with, because you get pointless, unnecessary arguments about people trying to talk about two very different versions of the series and arguing because they don't realize the characters they're discussing weren't even written similarly (hi, Mimi and Daisuke). Even if people do acknowledge the changes, there's also a tendency to worship that dub, so even though I feel my complaints about it are pretty legitimate ones (my gripes mainly being that I'm uncomfortable with the characterization changes, I feel many of the changes caused a significant adverse impact on the story and characterization integrity especially in the case of 02, and I get a bit of a bad feeling about some of the cultural localization attempts in dialogue borderline crossing into racism), it's frustrating to constantly get shut down because everything should be excused as long as it was in someone's childhood, and it's also frustrating to see these dismissals applied to people who had their own aforementioned local dubs and are upset at how this impacted their own childhood, but are thrown under the bus because their own dub is treated disrespectfully as if it were "secondary" to the American English dub somehow being the enforced, mandated standard for any kind of localized Digimon outside Japan.

I completely understand that a lot of this is lashback developed from Japanese-version-only purist camps being obnoxious about dunking on dubs, but it's uncomfortable observing the results of the fallout when you're kind of here in the middle not wanting to dunk on it for the sake of dunking on it, but also having concerns that you feel everyone is dismissing you for. (Not helping is also the fact that obnoxious purists love to dunk on people for having a personal preference for dubs; there are a lot of reasons to prefer them even if you're aware of the changes, personal emotional attachment and accessibility reasons being among them, and my grievances have more to do with the "it didn't change anything" myth still being prevalent, the experiences of having any criticism I have of it being so easily dismissed, and the fact that a combination of both means that having strong loyalty to the Japanese version gets you pinned as being an unusual purist or being overly picky.)

Also, I think one thing that isn't often talked about is that there's a huge difference between the dubs of everything up to 02 and the dubs of everything between Tamers and Savers (Xros Wars we'll...leave aside for now, haha). In the case of the latter, the aggressive joke-adding is much less intrusive, the changes (including to characterization) are less significant, and you can even see this in that Diablomon Strikes Back's dub has much closer dialogue and characterization to the original than anything else from the 02 dub. So a lot of what I said above actually just applies to Adventure and 02 more than anything. For series after, I don't make it a habit to watch their dubs as often these days, but I'm still familiar with them and have my own pretty strong sense of nostalgia for the Tamers and Frontier ones in particular, and for anything after 02, I haven't had any particular experience with other fans regarding trying to discuss the series but finding we're talking about two different things, other than maybe one or two minor things that had to be cleared up every so often. So in that case I myself also agree more with the idea of mostly treating the dubbed and Japanese versions as the same thing, whereas with Adventure and 02 I honestly feel they need to be treated as separate and distinct things.

In the end I guess the take-home I have here is that I feel like my experience going from the dub to the Japanese version has been a lot less shocking or eventful than dealing with the perceptions and stigmas around them from other people...^^;;

[intjaverywrites]

RobinCeru & why it’s important

[Disclaimer: So the timing of this post may not be the most appropriate, and I have nothing but respect and compassion for the victims of this horrific terrorist attack by Axel Ventura and co., including those at home (like myself) bearing witness.

However, I can’t turn a blind eye to the themes and issues that are being brought to light by him and this show. Call me tasteless, heartless, opportunistic, whatever you want, but these things need to be addressed, and it won’t be any less sensitive now than ten years from now, because let’s face it, there is never going to be a suitable time to talk about the leitmotifs included by a self-proclaimed psychopath.]

This post is going to mainly go into the #RobinCeru ship that is social media’s newest fixation (for now). While among these have been #Alicat, #Millianire, #NavySealMoreno, #crazyknifeguy, #DrFaraday, and other morally questionable men we have either tore apart ten times over despite them having no awareness of our criticisms, or have just stan’d for their entertaining personalities and/or looks, we have somehow managed to get the relationship between #2 and #3 on Mason Solis’ “Skeleton Clique” team into the top ten trending topics for a couple of days.

(I mean, he’s sorta okay when you can’t see his knife, right?)

Arguably, we are all succumbing to exactly what Ventura wants: to be enthralled with this game and its “characters,” as if they are not real life people away from their families and friends, struggling to stay alive in a confined space that is probably a health violation in itself at this point.

Still, when hopelessness takes us all by our chins, forcing us to look at what evil man is capable of, we will do anything to find a silver lining. (May we all take a moment to remember our star, #MsTinTin, whose naïvety we likely will not witness again.)

(We literally all get you, Julian. Quentin was the star we didn’t deserve.)

Although grasping, close to Quentin Roger and his childlike personality is none other than Cerulean Rorschach, who has even been dubbed “Cerubun” for his innocent and vulnerable ambience he brings to a very serious role in this entire show - an antecedent to the real big  installment: a dreaded arena presumably mirroring a concept to The Hunger Games.

Cerulean is no stranger to many of us who are not living under a rock, as he was held hostage on May 3rd earlier this year by Ventura, which is also the first time the world learned of the escaped psychiatric patient. After he was rescued, he was awarded a Medal of Freedom honor for seeking the truth in the murders of Henry and Stella Grans, due to threats by Ria Ventura.

He quickly became hailed as “America’s Sweetheart,” with his strawberry blonde hair, uniquely purple eyes, singsong voice, and altruistic personality. During this same incident did we meet Robin Rayner earlier than other contestants in our current show.

(Hold my ovaries.)

Others were more familiar faces: Shane, Quentin, Julian, Minh-Chi, Ayse, Aaron, Mason, Nadia, and Vaughn.

(How many times do you think Shane just thinks, “What the fuck.” while making this face? Crack those fingers, buddy.)

These people met Cerulean’s company, being honorees Nicholas and Dr. Faraday; the latter’s son, Wally; Cerulean’s then-boyfriend, Tadashi; Victor and Roy, two detectives from the case; and who else?

Robin.

It is better understood now that Robin is a colleague of sorts with Cerulean, though the deeper nature of his work is still not explicit (and maybe it’s better that way). Everyone else that had accompanied Cerulean makes logical sense, but why was Robin invited, especially as Tadashi is also his colleague in their workplace?

During the late-night interview after the ceremony, Robin stubbornly came to Cerulean’s defense when Dr. Faraday accused him of being manipulative and in cahoots with Ria. This theme continues throughout the rest of the show, and not once does Robin actually doubt Cerulean.

(I’m not crying. You’re crying.)

Although Robin tends to pick on Cerulean during the show, he never maliciously insults him, and tends to come to his aid when Blaire and James target Cerulean’s confirmed rapes. This seems like a humanly decent thing to do, but in general, when someone begins ganging up on him, Robin is one of the first to speak up about it.

Robin himself is not malleable.

He is not warm. He is not a sycophant. He says things how he sees them. In fact, a good handful of people do not get along with him, but who does?

This angel.

We can say that so far this isn’t really an argument for why this ship has actual merit to its popularity, but bear with me. This is what has really gotten me thinking, but it takes some greater awareness to just what has been going on in this game show. I’ve dug a lot into the footage off-hours too, and I find this is what really connects my thoughts.

RobinCeru is a paradox.

It is cute, it is funny, but god, is it contradictory.

(It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to go “they’re a bit weird.”)

These two men come from different parts of the country, to start. Cerulean has stated since the interview that he has a high emotional quotient, which allows him to work with all types of people on a humane level, empathizing with even sociopaths. Meanwhile, Robin has proven to be a by-the-book, rigid, and unemotional man who sees people like data. Both learn names, faces, connections, but their interpretations are starkly different. And while their emotional and logical conflictions would normally serve as an issue, neither have ever criticized their methods of working with people. Why is that?

Because they respect each other.

And that’s my first point. Robin stands up for Cerulean because he knows, like everyone else, that some of Dr. Faraday’s accusations are baseless, spontaneous, and downright offensive. However, he also respects him enough as a human fucking being to know he deserves so much more than to be told he deserves something as awful as rape. Although he never flat out says something like I’m sorry that’s happening, or I feel bad for you, he instead shows his care through his actions. He defends him, he has even told him to just ignore them. He gets concerned when he goes through panic attacks and dissociative episodes, he always tries to talk him down or wake him up, he always gives him pep talks to keep playing, to not give up.

Sure, to some degree, he needs him to play because the two obviously have an alliance going on, and he also just doesn’t want him to fucking die.

But also what this tells us is Robin has a lot of trust in Cerulean. Despite everything that Blaire, Dr. Faraday, Ventura, Reyes, and every other adversary wants to instill into everyone’s heads. Robin literally throws questions to him because he wants him to stay in the lead and trusts he can do something better with his points and power than he himself could. He trusts that Cerulean is not secretly fucking him over with an alliance with Ria or maybe even someone like Brennan.

He is trusting him with his life. Robin. Robin, the man who we can all agree is a born skeptic. 

(Please don’t ask were I got this gif.)

This doesn’t even include the fact they do work together well, coupled with their trust and respect. They both know they have serious and scary things ahead of them. They both know they could verily die together. They both know that out of the other 18 hostages, that they are each other’s ride or die. Each time one goes down, they might say, hey, get up - but if they don’t, they bend down, put them on their back, and carry the torch for them. They pull what the other can’t.

They say that relationships should be 50/50, but they legitimately stop and will take 15-85, 70-30, 10-90, until the other is better. And they each try so hard to get better, because they are conscientious of each other’s struggles that they can’t let them down.

When Cerulean was injected with a needle and lost a great chance of having kids of his own, he should have been out of the game completely. That is life shattering. Especially because we know how he actually loves kids and wanted them. Take into account how protective Robin is toward Wally, and even doesn’t want minors to suffer like Mimi, Jacob, or even Rhett. Robin isn’t cold enough to not feel that loss of what children are. Instead, he helped him through other ways. He tries to make sure Cerulean does not injure his neck more when he passes out. He spends so much of his time trying to wake him up, he even shares his food with him (also who noticed how they always come back from breakfast together talking about something?), and they’re just so relaxing and helpful to each other. This is also seen when Elsaied harassed Robin into an obedient and anxious state, that he suffered a panic attack. Or when he was harassed about his relationship with his best friend in high school, when he was emotionally abused. Cerulean gave him space, he encouraged him when he could, and most importantly, he waited. And Robin came back. It took a while, but he got back to his feet and gave back to his 50.

(Talking to you, Blaire Sinclair.)

If we look beyond their relationship toward the situation, but how they are as individuals, they continue to be contradictory. Cerulean is a popular, handsome, and physically apt man. He has a lot of friends and admirers, he defies his odds like in the Hang In There challenge, and he has a history that portrays him as essentially a standard jock. He is a friend of everyone (literally, as 99% of people on the ship know him), and he is mostly an open book with his life.

Meanwhile, Robin has more withdrawn interests. He works with computers, keeps his identity and past shrouded in mystery, and does not try to connect to others because he knows much of what he has is temporary. He is used to this. He is used to not being emotionally attached or driven. And he’s fine this way. He’s used to it. He doesn’t care what you think about him, he doesn’t try to be charming, or popular, or handsome.

(I just want to hug him... but must... respect... boundaries and trauma...)

While Cerulean’s life is based on how well he connects to people, Robin’s is based on how well he connects people. In this way, we really see where their limits are.

Cerulean’s life has been widely exploited so far in this show. He grew up with a single mother, his uncle, and his younger brother. He took his parents’ divorce so hard he developed a bulimia nervosa eating disorder. He occupied himself with so much positivity that he became ignorant, self-seeking, and privileged. This has hurt people around him, like his brother, or childhood best friend, Mason. He never got into serious romantic relationships. Still, he grew into a better person over time. He became more optimistic, he became more aware of what he was doing, he devoted his life to helping others at the risk of his own well-being and security that he could have easily achieved if he continued on the route he was on.

Meanwhile, Robin didn’t have as much luxury. He grew up unpopular, interested in geeky things (because we all know computers aren’t really that cool in 9th grade), and without many friends. When he had the chance to become popular, he was used, manipulated, and mistreated. He became so cynical about forming relationships and knowing people that liked him for who he was. He was like an animal starved for attention, and would immediately latch onto the first sign of affection - just to be tossed aside and forgotten. So is Robin not the nicest person? Is he hard to know, rude, indifferent? Yes, he is all of those things. But he was treated less than a human should be, and when he learns someone shows that genuine care, I bet he would return it tenfold.

So it’s interesting because they both fit into these archetypes of a jock and a nerd, and it’s what makes their pairing so surreal. It’s something we don’t see in everyday life unless it’s some indulgent, abusive relationship.

Instead, both are such strange forms of each other. Cerulean became a more down-to-earth and sincere person, making his job as a PR more authentic, while Robin stays distant from people, wearing a mask to people so he isn’t hurt again, furthered by his unfeeling job.

Yet, they are not only colleagues, but they are friends. They know they each have shit going on. They know they have shit ahead. They know some things that meet the eye aren’t so. And they don’t sit and talk about it. They just help each other.

Those are one of the best relationships. Where you don’t need to always talk. Where you can go all the way down to 0-100, and they are still there for you. I can’t see either of them walking away from each other at their worsts.

(Let’s be real: they’ll say it once off-camera.)

And maybe it is indulgent, because we do get to see a person like Robin gets attention from an attractive, well-liked, and jocky guy like Cerulean. And we get to see Cerulean nurture a man as disturbed and insecure as Robin.

But you can’t fucking tell me it won’t be amazing when you finally see Robin realize for the first time since he was wronged all those years ago - someone fucking likes me despite all of my fuck ups and flaws and walls, hell, this hair!

Or when Cerulean pauses and thinks when he’s just doing fucking nothing, ‘God, he’s really a good person.’

It doesn’t need to be cute. It doesn’t need to be sexual.

RobinCeru is important because it has so much potential to be a healthy relationship, and to make them grow out of their older states that they built around themselves because of their adolescence. It’s important to us as fans, too, because we see that people can be different and still make it work.

Although this show derived from a shitty joke, this shitty joke is actually really relatable. It’s relatable to either know what it feels like to be at the bottom and get noticed by someone, just to be fucked over. Or we know what it’s like to strive for so much positivity because if you don’t, you might stop and realize that you’re not actually okay at all. We know what it’s like to turn our hearts inward and shy away from people’s open hands, unsure of if they’re giving or taking. And we see this pair, with no obligation apart from staying alive, trust each other, grow as friends without any other catalyst except being kind to each other, dedicate themselves to act 100 when the time calls.