#like even finn said that the script literally said “like girls YET” and that mike doesn't KNOW will is gay

[fryeswiththat]

Me every time I watch or read a rendition of a character and the OP has flown with the idea that "this character's lapse in judgement is actually a defining characteristic for their future interactions and defines them rather than being a poor decision the character made"

[zenon-karr]

Just saying if Noah doesn’t know what s5 looks like he probably is saying he doesn’t think Mike likes Will back just incase the writers don’t write it to save himself. In volume 1 he would have KNOWN what happens in volume 2 so his pre volume 1 entusiasman doesn’t matter coz it’s not like volume 2 wasn’t filmed yet. He knew ALL of it before even promo for volume 1! It doesn’t literally matter this volume 1 shit. They’re not promoting s5 yet! I can’t be certain he knows whether it’s endgame or not but he clearly says he doesn’t know what the contents of s5 are.

In Gotham, when Penguin fell for riddler this same looking scenario it was the actor for RIDDLER who tried to let people down easy when we didn’t see it. We didn’t want to see it but they filmed far into that season when he said this however with byler he says this when they didn’t film presumably Mike’s reaction to Will’s feelings yet. On the other hand, with Stranger Things Finn redirected when interviewer asked how Mike would feel about it. He didn’t say he didn’t think Mike feels the same - he redirected the interviewer to say ‘I don’t think he knows’ which didn’t even answer what she asked. Just coz he says we know how Mike feels about El. DOES NOT mean Mike doesn’t have feelings for Will! People are bi!! (This isn’t bi Mike truther post but it’s just saying bi people exist so Mike loving El doesn’t disprove Mike loving Will!) people like more than one person at a time!! This doesn’t prove anything! Noah says pro byler and byler doubt to cover basis! If it’s not canon in the ends he doesn’t wanna be blamed for it! Which is fair because there would be people who blamed him when he just didn’t know but loves and want it to happen!

However I will say in the evidence he does actually know the endgame there’s a pattern with Noah and actually saying not the truth and saying what we’re supposed to think in the moment of the show and revealing otherwise later. In s3 he said Will doesn’t like girls yet or doesn’t want to grow up and implied this the meaning since that what we were supposed to think at that time. Then when volume 1 was coming out he basically said his sexuality is up to interpretation and then finally when vol 2 dropped he said Will is gay and loves Mike after we see the van scene. What they say doesn’t actually matter to be honest becuase if you watched promo for example Star Wars for rise of skywalker the cast said exactly opposite to what happened on the movie so really what the cast say doesn’t matter really. Just saying there’s a pattern with Noah and saying contrary to what happens. So I wouldn’t even worry personally but if you have doubt that fine but it’s rude to bombard us with it when there is evidence they say contrary to what happens. ESP with Will. Millie says Brenner is more of a father figure than Hopper? Are we to believe that is actually true too. In beyond stranger things Millie thinks brenner really loves El and the duffers are almost horrified she said this. 🤷🏼‍♀️ all I’m saying is this mean nothing really coz he really did just say his opinion if it really is his as according to him he hasn’t seen scripts s5 yet and according to the writers they only have at most written 2 complete eps 🤷🏼‍♀️

[itsonlystrange]

So, after reading @hawkinsschoolcounselor latest post, I went into the comments and, boy- they were, well. They were not great. I mean I guess I laid this onto myself but, anyways, I’m going to be answering this comment right here:

This is ALL for fun! It’s all a bunch of light hearted love, but this comment REALLY ticked me the wrong way.

For starters: There’s always been this trope in media of “one is enough.” Or “we have enough representation!” And it’s VERY prevelant in tv shows. The theory that “oh! There’s already one gay character, that’s enough for you, right?” Is sh!tty. It’s horrible.

Think of it this way: if there are 200 white sheep in a room, and then the shepherd brings in one black sheep, do you think that would suffice the other black sheep from the other herds? Do you think that would ‘hold them over’? I mean imagine being a black sheep in a crowd of 200 other white sheep, you’d feel alone. Okay, so now pretend there is a tv show, and this black sheep is watching that tv show, and of course, all the actors in the tv show are WHITE SHEEP. So then, in season 3 of Sheeper Things, they FINALLY introduce a black sheep, and of course the black sheep is happy, but still, they can’t help but realize that all of the white sheep are still there and overcome that small black sheep by a LOT!

I’m assuming that comment was made by someone straight, as they clearly don’t grip representation. Also, I’m assuming that person is slightly homophobic, just by the way they phrased it. It seems odd, I mean, what’s the issue with having one more gay character?

Well apparently, in their minds, Will being able to overcome his childhood is much more effective then Will being gay- so.

Let me lay it out for you:

Surprise! You can be gay AND want to hold onto your childhood! And, there are already so many other characters that could have a lovely arc of learning to accept themselves and learning to be their true selves away from societies norms *cough* mike *cough* Lucas *cough* but of course, they want to make WILL the one who gets this arc because if Will was gay that means he has a better chance of getting with Mike! (This was under a Mileven video btw) so they want him to be canonically straight so there is no chance Mike and Will can be endgame!

Now second: 90% of the comments under this video are people saying they think he’s asexual.

1. You can be gay AND asexual

2. Asexuality is the feeling of not being sexually attracted to anyone. YOU CAN BE ROMANTICALLY ATTRACTED TO PEOPLE IF YOURE ASEXUAL.

3. Will is fourteen! And if we’re using the logic of “oh he hasn’t wanted to kiss anyone so he’s asexual!” Then shouldn’t Dustin be asexual too?-

4. WILL IS FOURTEEN! Just because he doesn’t want to get down and dirty at that (very young age!) DOESNT mean that he doesn’t like sexual attraction at all. It’s kind of insane how people are seriously making these assumptions over a 14 year old child, some people like to wait, and that’s fine!

5. If the people in the comments meant aromantic, there really isn’t anything in the show that proves that he doesn’t like anyone, period. I think partially it’s heteronormativity and people not wanting to see the fact that Will clearly has a crush on mike, or had one in the past. The script even went as far as saying “But his eyes aren’t on the cute girl, they’re on - - Mike.”

Why do you think the script would put that in if there wasn’t something there, unrequited or not? Personally, I think that a lot of people don’t want to accept the fact that Will could have a crush on Mike as that would destruct their heteronormative bubble. They don’t want the main boy in the show to be gay because it disrupts the balance in their life. And it makes the chances of mike and Will ending up together being strong.

6. Saying “you have one gay character, that’s enough representation!” Is BULL. SH!T. There will NEVER be enough representation in the media for the lgbtq+ community. Ever. Even when we keep trying, there will always be something. Whether the show being cancelled or the one gay character dying, representation in the media for minorities are slim, but ESPECIALLY for the lgbtq+ community.

We are all VERY proud of Maya and Robin. We love Robin, but that doesn’t mean the Duffers just get to sit back and be like “oh, we already have one gay character, we don’t need more.” Like, what? That’s not how this works. Representation doesn’t just get to stop after the heterosexuals deem us to have “enough gay characters” or “if you add too many gay characters it’d get unrealistic” no. We’ve (me being a bisexual) have went through YEARS AND YEARS of ZERO representation. ZERO. While the hets always got their happily ever after love story, we WAITED.

We love Robin, but that doesn’t mean they can just halt Will’s arc since season one because you deem the representation to be enough.

This isn’t apples and oranges. Will can be gay AND not want to grow up. It isn’t always just black and white.

Maybe it’s the people who refuse to see the way Will looks at Mike, and just takes that as “2 bros looking at bros”, but there is very clearly something under the surface there.

since season ONE they have built Will up to be gay. Since the first episode.

Put it this way. Joyce used the term “f*g” in episode one. Why do you think they would use a slur like that If it weren’t going to go somewhere. What was the point of using a slur to describe Will in season one, or to Troy and James literally tormenting the Party for Will being gay almost all of season one. What was the point of that if that wasn’t going to go anywhere?

I can GUARANTEE that If Mike promised El that he’d go crazy together with HER instead of Will, the milevens would eat that up and call it “romantic!” However, because it’s just two boys, it’s totally platonic, right? It’s totally just two bros being bros.

If Mike held el’s hand like that and said “we won’t let him.” To el instead of Will, milevens would EAT THAT UP. They’d say that was the most romantic sh!t in the show.

If Mike told El that meeting her was the best thing he’d ever done, MILEVENS WOULD EAT THAT UP. They’d call it the most romantic thing of the century. It’d be on ever fan accounts Instagram pages. It’d be in all of the bios. But of course, because it’s two boys, it HAS to be platonic.

A lot of times milevens excuses for things are “well mike said he loved her so it’s end game”

Stancy, anyone?

Or Mike said “you’re the most important thing in the world to me.”

In the most DRY way possible. If Mike said that to Will in that way, EVEN I WOULDNT BELIEVE HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

I mean the way Mike said that line clearly shows that el isn’t the most important thing in the world to him. There’s something underlying there. Like I said, that line was DRY. There was no emotion behind it. He was just saying that to get El to shut up, to get El to forgive him, so they could move on.

If Mike had said “you’re the most important thing in the world to me” to WILL like that instead of El, I wouldn’t have believed it either. And I bet that If that was the case the milevens would say “Mike doesn’t really love Will! That line was so dry!” But because it’s El and Mike, they say that’s the cutest thing since sliced bread.

Again, I have zero issues with Milevens, it’s only the toxic ones like the comment above that get to me.

Will has been set up to be gay from DAY ONE. The duffers have studied film for YEARS. Do you seriously think they’d let these all be coincidences? Do you seriously think that after writing season two NOBODY said, “hey, that’s a little gay.”

One scene is fine. If we only had gotten crazy together, yeah, I don’t think I would have thought it to be canon. But it’s the fact that they wrote in OVER 10 QUEER CODED ROMANTIC SCENES BETWEEN MIKE IN WILL, JUST IN SEASON TWO.

You can’t make that up! That cannot be an accident!

They’ve said over and over that everything they do, every song they play, every outfit the characters wear, is intentional. It’s all there for a reason.

Finn and Noah had to read these scripts, rehearse them, and then spent hours filming them. Do you seriously think it wouldn’t have cross their minds that “Hey! That’s a little weird Mr Duffer.”

That’s mostly because Finn and Noah probably already know where the show is headed.

If your only source of Mileven evidence is that Millie has said that they should get married and that they kissed in the end, then, I have some news to break.

Obviously, if anything were to happen in season 4 with Mileven not being end game, Millie couldn’t just say that. Finn couldn’t just say that. It’s their jobs to keep the fans intrigued and on their toes.

David knew he wasn’t really dead but he still had to pretend in interview after interview that Hopper was indeed dead. And he played it off pretty well.

Millie knew El wasn’t really dead after the season one finale yet she still had to play it off like El was.

So obviously, they can’t just outright say “Mileven isn’t end game!”

I mean,,, I’m sure they’d get fired for it.

So, we really shouldn’t pay attention to what the cast says in interviews, and we shouldn’t take that as canon, either. Their job is to subvert our expectations for the show, and they’re doing it well.

TL;DR:

Will can be gay and also have an arc where he doesn’t want to grow up and where he can learn to be his authentic self. The interviews the ST cast do should not be taken as canon as their jobs as actors are to keep us on our toes and subvert our expectations. Byler has a lot of proof and has a large chance of being canon, and most milevens don’t want to believe Will is gay because that means Will would have a larger chance of getting with Mike. The lgbtq+ community still need representation regardless of Robin and just because we got one lesbian does not mean the duffers can sit back and go back to their only heterosexual couples and ideas.

Byler is end game :)

@kaypeace21 @strangertheory @stranger-analysis @willthecleric (opinions?)

[miasswier]

miasswier’s ultimate glee ranking: no 36

36: The First Time

Written by:  Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa Directed by:  Bradley Buecker

Overall Thoughts: This is one of those episodes where the Klaine of it all kind of blinds me a little. Listen, I know it’s not actually that great of an episode, but I love it. I’ve watched it a thousand times and I know I’ll watch it a thousand more. It’s basically the first good episode of season three, and considering what it follows, it really shines. As always, there are definitely things I don’t like about it, but the Klaine of it all really outranks everything I dislike; plus, there’s a few other little details that I enjoy.

What I Like:

Sebastian is hereeeeeee. He’s an asshole, but I love him.

Karofsky is back! I’m glad they didn’t just ship him off into oblivion after “Prom Queen”, and I like his scene with Kurt here.

When Kurt is done talking to Karofsky and looks over at Blaine, who is staring at him and literally begging him to come dance with him, and then Kurt gets between him and Sebastian, and the fucking face he makes at Sebastian when he keeps trying to get on Blaine’s other side fuck.

The scene in Blaine’s bedroom. We so, so rarely got to see what Kurt and Blaine’s relationship was like behind closed doors. In fact, we so rarely got to see what any relationship was like behind closed doors, seeing as most scenes, even between couples, on this show take place either at McKinley or Breadstix. So it’s really cool to see them just goofing off and being the giant fucking dorks that they are.

“That’s why they invented masturbation”

Listen, I have as many mixed feelings about that backseat of the car scene as anybody, but can we all just agree that at least it gave us Blaine looking into Kurt’s eyes and saying, in a raspy voice, “I want you. I want you so bad.”

“I just want to live here and make art and help people.”

I LOVE when Tina is telling Rachel about how she lost her virginity to Mike. It’s such a sweet moment, and I think it’s one of the only times a girl on this show actually talks about the fact that she had a good first time and really enjoyed the sex.

Also, speaking of Tina, her outfit for West Side Story is just… damn. I actually have a very specific memory of watching this episode for the first time and literally getting a full body shiver when I saw her. I think that’s the first time my body visibly reacted to the sight of a beautiful woman. Fuck me.

Mike’s mom coming to see him in the play!

Coach Beiste being so fucking oblivious to Cooter’s romantic attempts. Because literally me.

The cute moment when everyone gives Artie flowers and thanks him for all he’s done. I don’t know why they don’t show boys getting flowers on TV more often? Look how fucking happy he is.

I do like the scene in the auditorium between Kurt and Blaine after the show. It’s nice to actually hear them talking out the argument they had, and hear Blaine apologize for how he behaved. I wish they could have done this more often throughout the show.

Also, Kurt’s breathy “I want to go to your house” and Blaine’s eyes all wide and excited, “Okay”

Finn freaking out because he thinks it’s all over for him. Fuck, that’s such an amazing scene. Probably one of the best Finn scenes ever. He absolutely kills it, and it always brings a tear to my eye because it’s so raw and real. The most relatable Finn moment, actually.

What I Don’t Like:

Artie getting involved in Beiste’s love life, literally going as far as to ask if Beiste has ever had sex. What the fuck. He’s a student? That’s so goddamn inappropriate.

Actually, the fact that Artie told Blaine and Rachel they needed to have sex to really understand the roles of Maria and Tony is kind of gross too. Just, not good advice, at all. And super inappropriate, and also highkey none of his business.

I always seem to forget about that awful rape joke about Brittany. Ugh.

The fact that they cut that mash-up of You Spin Me Right Round/Do You Really Wanna Hurt Me that Klaine was going to sing. That would have been awesome and I’m sad.

They kind of do the same thing they do in “The Break-Up” here, where they set it up for Finchel and Klaine to equally be the A plot, but it’s really obvious that Finchel is the A plot and Klaine is the B plot. It just feels like they didn’t know how to do a single episode of this show that involved a gay couple in any way without shoving Finchel in particular down our collective throats.

The way they go about the set-up for the Finchel sex makes me really angry and uncomfortable. They try and talk their way out of it, but they can’t, they’ve already said it: Rachel is giving Finn her virginity to make him feel better about not getting recruited. AND, before she was planning on doing it to be a better actress. Like, I don’t get what was so hard about “Hey Finn, I love you and am ready to have sex with you,” like why couldn’t that be the reason? Why did they have to do it in such a way that it’s literally just a pity fuck to make Finn feel better. Considering they made such a huge stink about Rachel saving it for the right guy and “for a girl it’s a big deal” they really fucked her over.

I’m not as annoyed about Klaine, but it does sort of frustrate me that, again, the reason for their having sex wasn’t just “I love you and am ready”. They had a fight, and now they made up, and while they both made it clear earlier in the episode that they are ready to have sex, I still think it kind of feels weird that they basically did it as a way to make up. I have nothing against make-up sex, trust me, but for your first time? I don’t know.

When this episode first came out, I loved the Cooter/Beiste storyline. Now that we’ve seen how it plays out, I want to claw my eyes out every time he is on screen. Especially watching Artie push Cooter to ask Beiste out again.

Okay, look, there were not enough Latinx characters on this show to pull off West Side Story. They pulled a few out of their ass for the “America” number, but really, they still had a lot of non-Latinx characters as Sharks. Honestly, they didn’t even have enough people of colour to pull off an “ethnic Sharks vs white Jets” deal. I am entirely convinced that this entire plot was just an excuse for Lea Michele to play Maria, since she was so heartbroken back in like, 2008 or 2009 when she auditioned for Maria and they cast a Latinx actress for the role instead. Cause god forbid they not white wash the role for once.

I don’t really know why they wanted to include the Jets in “America”? It just makes them even more obviously racist than they already are.

Once again a major Kurt Hummel episode where he doesn’t get to sing (made even worse by the fact that he was supposed to sing but it got cut)

Songs:

Tonight: Eh. Tina sang it better in season one. Also, what’s with Rachel still looking down at her sheet music? This is the girl who supposedly was off-script for Shakespeare within 10 minutes yet somehow still doesn’t know all the words to a song she demanded be her solo two years ago?

Uptown Girl: Cute and fun! I missed the Warblers.

A Boy Like That/I Have a Love: I like how they weaved these songs into the narrative of the show. I particularly like the intercutting of “A Boy Like That” with Blaine and Sebastian having coffee.

America: Again, I don’t know about the whole adding in the Jets. I think Puck and Santana sound good, though.

One Hand, One Heart: It’s still funny to me that they had Blaine and Rachel sing this song instead of making it a Finchel/Klaine number. I’m also 90% sure that they spend more time on Blaine and Rachel on stage than on the couples having sex.

Final Thoughts: Yeah, I’ll admit it, I have my Klaine goggles on for this one. There’s a few other things I really like, but there’s also stuff I don’t. Still, nothing will ever be bad enough to make me not watch this episode a thousand times over. Especially the Klaine scenes.