#like clara started with twelve that it
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I know it’s been over a decade but i refuse to acknowledge eleven and clara’s arc
#like clara started with twelve that it#eleven and clara were just sooooo bad together they didn’t make sense and i hated the new costume#that just wasn’t eleven that long purple coat was not serving#i can’t believe I’m back into my doctor who shit and my thoughts about doctor who are back with a VENGENCE#god#be quiet jenny
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So what's wrong with Clara, then? There's nothing wrong with her. Why haven't you made her immortal? Well, look how you turned out.
#dwedit#doctor who#userveronika#usertennant#userteri#scifiedit#ashildr#twelfth doctor#clara oswald#twelveclara#*#honestly idk if this will make sense to anyone but me but#the doctor saved ashildr and the doctor saved clara but ashildr is clara and ashildr is the doctor too.......... and so is clara#or more intelligibly: ashildr's arc at its base is the same arc that twelve and clara have together. except she plays both roles#ashildr starts as clara and ends as the doctor. like you can SEE the moment it switches from ashildr-as-clara to ashildr-as-doctor#but clara ALSO starts as clara and ends as the doctor. (''we could you know... stop off on the way'' ''gallifrey. the long way round'').#and the doctor gets to watch the exact same storyline play out in front of him without ever realizing it and incapable of ever stopping it#.....does any of that make sense. i'm writing these tags at 3am so idk fjdkslsls#but really this gifset is just 'ashildr: the twelveclara redux'
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#it's the fact that her literal boyfriend is standing eight feet away#i just think about this a lot#it's just the way that she so stoically tries to save his life in the same way he's trying to save hers#(that doctorification piece again)#and she tries to act unaffected (like he does)#but that little moment when she looks back at him when he's walking away#and the kids and danny are talking about the government burning up the trees#but she's just looking at him and watching him disappear#it was just very heavy#don't even get me started on the way he watches her walk away#i still hate this episode though#doctor who#dwedit#dwgifs#dw companions#twelve#twelfth doctor#clara oswald#twelveclara#whouffaldi#dws8#episode: in the forest of the night#peter capaldi#jenna coleman#gif warning#the colouring fought me like no other#i still can't look at this without my eye twitching
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Listen is so great you don't understand. It's an episode about mental illness. And some people point out that some of the things that happen (the kid under the blanket, the airlock mechanism triggering) are on the surface unlikely, but that's the exact point. The Doctor is not an objective narrator, I mean this is the episode that starts with him sitting on top of the TARDIS in space speechifying, we see it in the way he frames it, so we see these ordinary things (a mischievous child, a dead ship breaking down) in the uncanny way he sees them—
—and because he is the Doctor, because he is the person who bad guys pause their plans to listen when he talks, because he is charismatic and impressive and the Oncoming Storm—
—because he's the Doctor, Clara (and baby Danny and Orson) start to believe him, until they arrive on Gallifrey, until Clara sees the root of his trauma, and she understands.
And it doesn't matter if this creature is a delusion or not, it only matters that it scares him, because fear is a superpower, and the way he responds to the reality he experiences is why he's the Doctor.
What. an. icon.
#psychotic experiences cause real trauma! and this is generally minimized which leads to more trauma which is why this is so GOOD#twelfth doctor#12th doctor#doctor who#moffat thought he'd write an episode about how this alien legend experiences a psychotic episode and some people dont appreciate his genius#luckily many people DO appreciate listen. it's a great episode!!!#clara oswald#danny pink#words by seaweed#(eleventh) doctor is neurodivergent tag#I know I know. me naming my tag like that when it's a moffat doctors thing mainly. my eleven focus is showing but i LOVE twelve#I love that even as twelve starts to get more mentally healthy post hell bent he keeps speechifying alone. LOVE that for him#is he practicing his university lectures? or is he still speechifying to the listen creatures? the answer's gotta be both.
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hey do you ever think about how the start of a good man? (~40s in) sounds a little like clara's melody. almost like he has literally built his whole self around her. isn't that neat and by neat i mean i can't think about it too hard or else i will scream 👍
#doctor who#the doctor#twelve#clara oswald#and then the bulk of the theme starts after the little melody plays#since s8 was abt him trying to figure who he was. so he starts with clara. and then uses that to find himself#i mean i'm guessing. what do i know. i only took one music theory class and i slept thru it dsjakldaskjl#also oswin's theme is like a reimagining of clara's it's very cool. like an echo :D
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i think twelve and clara are starting to make sense to me but i don't think it's what moffat intended or how the ppl that like them see their dynamic
#they are so obsessed with each other but not as people but the ideas of each other.#twelve's whole character to me feels like the grieving immortal that no longer has anything as a buffer#between him and the weight of the universe. so he sees clara as this culmination of every one of the companions he's lost before#and that adds up. what w/ eleven meeting versions of clara and seeing them die. that adds up w/ clara's presence in heaven sent#faceless and just telling him what to do. she is the companion he cannot fail this time (but he also#cannot reconcile how one of the reasons he keeps someone like her around is /because/ she's mortal)#meanwhile clara bc of her time in the tardis and how she was treated by eleven. thinks herself to be more than she is#she thinks she's owed so much in her life and she thinks she can handle all of it. like ten in waters of mars#so she views twelve and the life in the tardis as an affirmation of what's so extraordinary about her#which is also how she sees danny. i think her character really sings if this is the main idea w/ her relationships with others#bc it's how the doctor acted around her when he first met her. not seeing her as a person but as an idea a mystery a means to an end#so of course as someone who becomes more and more like the doctor as time goes on it makes so much sense that this would be so central#just like how w martha's doctorfication arc it was about self-sacrifice and violence and death. bc that's how ten acted around her#twelve and clara still have the standard traits of doctor and companion of course. the doctor saves the companion when they're in trouble.#the companion remembers to care when the doctor forgets. but they're going through familiar motions as they#start to lose more and more of themselves by being around each other. bc they don't really see the other person#and that's why their dynamic is so obsessive and toxic#dr who#12 era#now this reading has made both characters make a lot of sense to me but also this has tanked my enjoyment of hell bent#in how clara's arc resolves. i won't elaborate more on that until i actually get to it on the rewatch though
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hhey guys. i think i mayy be experiencing a hyperfixation 4 the first time. not sure. sorry
#asclexeposting#its doctor who. its all i want to think about its all i want to watch or talk about its.#i like this show a Lot. explodes. most of the episodes suck but i Really like this show#i dont think ive ever had a hyperfixation that i could detect. ik when i was young i would watch disney frozen like 3 times everyday#i watched that movie so much i wore the dv out. also disney/pixar brave. those two movies. i watched them a lot when i was young#anydrwho. im only on s7 almost s8 but. dude. its getting worse. i was normal about it until i got to smith’s era#and now its like woah. its one of the things that makes me feel good in my brain as of late. next to like. music. and being right and silly#yeah. like i need to finish nuwho and then watch classic who and learn a bunch of fun facts about it that no one cares abt.#i need to. bro. ugh. ragh.#rn im on late s7. its ok. i dont really Love clara bc of moffat’s weird writing i dont like how shes written idk how to explain it.#but she has potential i think. idk she doesnt go well with eleven but i think she goes well with twelve? idk. i have like 4 more episodes#until capaldi. he seems cool 👍#yeah. ugh. i knew from when i started watching it in july that it was joeover. i think i recognized that i would Really like the show br#and definitely i Really like the show. rip to my mom and my friends who have to hear about it. i Love talking about this show. ragh
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thinks about time lord biting again with eleven & clara. thinking about eleven nipping victorian!clara because he got overexcited, regretting it, and then trying to hold onto the fact that he did it and nothing bad happened yet and maybe she can come with him- oops. eleven trying so hard for so long to keep it to himself when he finds clara again. lets her in but never lets her close enough. but thinking about it, always.
and most of all, imagining eleven finally breaking, and when clara lets him bite her, it’s all that fresh loss and need to keep her safe and burgeoning trust and restraint falling away at once and- he bites too hard. apologizing to clara as he patches her up. it leaves a scar. and scars don’t regenerate. her first doctor, dug into her skin even after he’s gone. permanent.
…and now i’m thinking about twelve tentatively placing his teeth against that scar, pulling away, and giving clara a brief nip somewhere else, somewhere safer. (and clara, annoyed, dragging him in so that she can bite him back hard. even more annoyed when he won’t scar the way she wants him to, the way she did for him, the way he’d forever have to keep and remember.)
#also thinking about the awkward questions she’d have to deflect from danny about it-#ALSJFKJFLA no see twelve would just say he did that. if it was to annoy danny. he would.#when ur gf introduces u to her time travelling alien …friend(?) and the first thing you learn is that the prominent bite scar you thought#was maybe from some kind of animal attack was HIM. yeah.#donna ��� clara: biting the doctor back once he starts biting them#clara fully picks it up as an affectionate thing though. donna mostly does it if she’s thinking about it and thinks he needs it.#clara just. does it. like it’s natural for her the way it is for the doctor.#she does it in front of missy and scandalizes her/makes her Very jealous alsjfjfljskd. doctor u cannot be biting ur companions in public or#letting them bite you back like that!!! (<- woman who introduces herself by making out with him and in this universe def biting him too.)
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"But I can remember, Clara. You don’t understand, I can remember it all. Every time. And you’ll still be gone. Whatever I do, you still won’t be there." | Sorrowing Old Man (at Eternity's Gate) by Vincent Van Gogh (1890)
#literally couldn't stop thinking about twelve and clara after seeing this painting#like it's not just the painting#but the title too#like that's literally Them#they're just a sorrowing old man at eternity's gate#12th doctor#clara oswald#twelveclara#sbsace#watch me start seeing them in my fucking chips in a week or two#'so are these 'codependent blorbos' in the room with us right now?'
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um??? 2.5k in one sitting who???
#the problem is that i still need to write the rest of the fic#because i have the beginning and the ending and not the actual plot#but not a bad start#also maybe i will do an epilogue where bill meets martha and discovers that she is very awesome#but also a hot mess just like everyone else and not nearly as cool as she seems by the traces of her left on the TARDIS#already started a fic like that with amy even before i started writing this#can't do it with rose and I don't know if i want one with clara#donna doesn't work either and i think the doctor would actually die if he had to see donna again as twelve#oh i should edit and post that other fic actually that does have that#okay one sec#spoof.txt
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Talking to the wall about twelveclara
#ill get someone to watch dw one day. i have to#literally have no one to talk to about them my one dw friend doesn't like clara and my other option is my mother and uncle . i am not#discussing shipping with them.#my uncle thinks theyre not romantic bc twelve is too old for her and like okay you cant be talking about age gaps with doctor ships.#theyre 900 at the start of the show.
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it's soooooo embarrassing that my mum knows i like twelveclara. and she was in the room for last christmas which is embarrassingly close to being explicitly romantic. keep that shit more unsaid please
#and also the magician's apprentice party scene which is super fun and the first time i watched it and she was there i was just openly enjoyi#ng it. well now i want to die. esp bc she probably thinks the pretty woman thing for clara. well no i equally care abt missy.#me.txt#im not used to this shit usually what happens is i care about gay pairings and either it doesnt look that gay or mum will just not react#to it bc she is homophobic and would rather not think about that#or maybe more likely knows i dont want to hear what she has to say. i do appreciate that#wait actually i think half the problem is she probably thinks i have a crush on twelve 💀💀💀😟😟😭😭#well i do but she doesnt need to know that. prolly thinks he's not a dyke n all#also i am just currently thinking that some moments are a little Too open for my tastes.#Also i was talking to mum once about twelve's possible face blindness (and she'd seen the when do i not see you scene and when he couldnt#tell clara was like 80 or whatever#and she was like oh in the kdramas i watch they love to have the guy be faceblind but he can only recognise the girl. mum im trying to talk#about my favourite doctor who and also fucked up hetbait. not your vaguely hallmarkish romances#okay they are not like hallmark they are more creative and also better. she just says she likes them bc they're like chaste. and she started#watching them instead of hallmark shows#anyway. time to go home and watch before the flood and under the lake and she'll probably be there#the problem is that mum likes romances that are nice. and she probably thinks twelveclara is kind of nice or maybe that i think it is#mostly its slay and fucked#it should feel a little bit like being queerbaited (kind of bad but so good and like you may be insane but also you're deeply correct)
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inspired by fifteen trying to say shit and getting censored by the nanny filter, here’s a complete table of every doctors who and whether or not they use strong language
1 - no
2 - yeah
3 - rarely, but accurately and directly, in a dignified and sarcastic fashion
4 - ABSOLUTELY all the time. the tardis filter barely copes. we’ve all seen the K-9 clip, that’s what the character sounds like without the kids show censorship
5 - no. does he look like a man who swears to you? maybe some esoteric combination of words like fuckadoodle shitnozzles
6 - yes. duh
7 - he doesn’t enjoy it, but occasionally, sparingly, when the situation calls for it
8 - definitely . not too frequently, though. for emphasis, or for a laugh
9 - that man is a working class northerner from the 2000s and a jaded war veteran. draw your own conclusions. he knows elaborate insults you’ve never heard of
10 - cheeky little ‘fuck’ here and there with rose & martha, ALL THE TIME with donna, and swearing like hell when he starts going off the rails in the s4 specials
11 - lol no. well… he’s got an example to set to the companions that he treats like children. he’s a storybook character and he wants to be perceived as an imaginary friend, a kind almost victorian whimsical gentleman in a bowtie, and a person like that wouldn’t use crude language. with river song though? now THAT’S a whole other story
12 - the scene in dark water with the psychic paper tells us everything we need to know. twelve in series 8 was straight up pg13ified malcolm tucker. shuttity-up-up-up without the tardis filter sounds like fuckity-bye. he swears liberally, frequently, unsparingly and unceremoniously, at everyone without distinction, including clara’s students at coal hill. personally i think that’s one hell! of a fucking! bird!
13 - no. she’s all famalam hipster mum cringy kindergarten teacher. it doesn’t fit her ~vibe~. the master makes fun of this trait in the timeless children when he’s goading her about her superiority complex. says it’s such a step down from her previous self, at least that one was honest about his emotions
fugitive - she gives no fucks and takes no shit
14 - yes from time to time, like a normal human being would, nothing excessive. donna does bring it out in him though. his mouthy side
15 - this guy says cunt and serves it
#doctor who#dw#doctor who series 14#doctor who spoilers#fifteenth doctor#fifteen#ncuti gatwa#nuwho#classic who#russell t davies#steven moffat#space babies#the devil’s chord#millie gibson#ruby sunday#doctor who season 1
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Thinking about the convolution of Eleventh Doctor's expressions of love for River Song in Season 7B. He does not trust Clara. He is utterly (wrongly) convinced that he and Clara are playing a grand manipulative game together. “What are you, eh?! A trick? A trap?!!”
So naturally, the last thing he should do in this game is to clue his opponent in on something that could be used to hurt him. Something like River, so painfully near the end of their time together, whose data ghost he can always see, who “it would hurt too much” to acknowledge. He can't let Clara know of the loss which constantly floods his senses; (“You are always here to me. And I always listen, and I can always see you,” he professes, once Clara has vanished into his timestream).
And yet. River fills his every moment (irregardless of any sneaking out for dates with increasingly-young Rivers while Clara is asleep like he did while the Ponds slept, which would explain his absence when the TARDIS is hiding Clara's bedroom). Even though it's not strategic, he can’t help but tell Clara about her. The best defense he can manage is to phrase it as if River isn’t as important to him as she is. Not only is avoiding her first name in his grief; he's also completely avoiding pronouns; which seems extreme given that he's still mentioning her as often as: “Oh yeah, of course he has! Professor Song! Sorry, it's just I never realized you were a woman.”
Leave out the emotion — leave out the details — don't show the cracks in the armor — play the part — win the game.
“Well, there's no point now. We're about to die. JUST TELL ME WHO YOU ARE.”
#I mean we KNOW that the doctor immediately started pouring his hearts out to Clara as soon as NotD ended <3#Clara tells the war doctor “he's always talking about the day he did it” okay so he's always talking about it starting after the prev ep#eleventh doctor#river song#clara oswald#words by seaweed#yeah I know the implication in Name of the Doctor is that eleven is two-timing them / worried abt Clara being jealous. which. eh. maybe.#but I like this better. also both things can be true if we want them to be#eleven is in SUCH a bad way in Season 7B too he needs to be held#“I thought it would hurt too much and I was right” ever think about how Clara was there for in the deepest moments of his grief?#whether his sad victorian cloud… on the Last Day… or on the day he was finally able to say Rivers name. he thought it would hurt too much#Tia made a really insightful post recently about how eleven can’t speak rivers name when she's gone and like. god. yeah.#it also made me think about. who would he even talk to River about? if he could? after years on a cloud drowning in her present nonpresence#ever think how if HoRS had happened before Hell Bent he never could've dealt with it and coulda broke the universe for River instead#Series 9 was a continuation/escelation of eleven's (and next twelve's) “he hates endings” - endings for Amy and Rory. for River. for Clara.#he hit rock bottom. and then Clara saved him#“You said memories become stories when we forget them. Maybe some of them become Songs.”#thank you Clara <3#one episode later:#“When the wind stands fair and the night is perfect when you least expect it but always when you need it the most- there is a Song.”#bc this is NOT to undervalue the Doctor's love for Clara he has a Duty of Care she's more Breakable than him (also than river!)#but it can it really be a coincidence? bc he is talking abt river in the second one. unless Moffat is obsessed with Song imagery? I MEAN
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charley being turned into a conduit to the anti-universe without her consent while she is the cause of anti time leaking in the first place / lady me being manipulated by the time lords into luring clara onto trap street so that her death would lead twelve to confess about the hybrid while she is initially the cause of the hybrid prophecy in the first place
girls that are ghosts but never quite dead. always more alive than they’re told they should be. girls who refuse to be dead because the narrative* (*the doctor, those terms are synonymous) cares about them too much to lose them. what’s a planet. what’s a civilisation. what’s a space-time continuum compared to one person you love
Listening to Neverland for the first time and GOD I need 8 and 12 to meet just so they can talk about Charley and Clara
#charley is spiritually a moffatgirl. she’s a predecessor. The Original#like i said before moffatgirl is a specific type of companion… for example bill despite being written by moffat is#not a moffatgirl. meanwhile donna while character-wise very emphatically not being a moffatgirl is narratively a moffatgirl. the#web of time converging around you is what makes you a moffatgirl. which is a term that is entirely anachronistic and something i made up.#i should start a podcast. anyway moffat girls are 1) doctorified though not always (amy isn’t) 2) incredibly important to the fate of#time and the universe itself 3) connected to the doctor by a remarkably convoluted web of events probabilities and coincidences. it’s#fate. they could never NOT have met him 4) they’re mysterious and feisty#so. charley donna amy CLARA and… ruby sunday!#ted talk over. i shuffle off the stage awkwardly#dw#charley pollard#clara oswald#hell bent#neverland#twelve#eight#fav
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s10 twelve is twelve at peace. post-heaven sent clara is clara at peace. with their mutually obsessive link broken, twelve is free to love and care for others without clara eclipsing everything else just by being near him. without the restraints of twelves morality and her own mortality, clara is free to live recklessly, to keep going forever. the people they are at the end of their story don’t work together, but they only BECAME those people because they were put together.
at the start, clara is a schoolteacher trying to maintain a committed relationship. at the start, twelve is afraid that he is heartless. they want to become more like the other. and they succeed.
swap! twelve is a schoolteacher who reestablishes a committed relationship with his wife (as well as makes a different kind of commitment to missy). and clara is, functionally, literally heartless.
#like who would have thought. at the beginning of their story who would of thought this is who they would become#this as close to verbalizing these thoughts as I’m going to get#anyway. they’re so interesting#twelve & clara#twelveclara#twelfth doctor#clara oswald#doctor who#mios#dw analysis#500#1k#show d later tag
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