#like books like tgcf and mdzs have intense war storylines with genuinely complex themes about trauma and propaganda and the morality of war

[starry-eyed-psychopomp]

I mean I actually do read more than just danmei. I only started reading danmei within the past year and have been consuming queer fantasy religiously for years now. I was an English Major. I work in a bookstore. This post was very much informed by my experience reading a shitload of queer fantasy. Lowkey a little offended by the implication that this opinion comes from just not reading enough. That’s kind of a rude assumption to make? Anyway, I’ll elaborate on my feelings, because I have a lot of Thoughts on the topic and I like to yap.

I do think a lot of people in the danmei community could stand to read more genres and generally diversify their shelves (heavy on DIVERSIFY), and I’m sure that was the point you were making, but that’s not really what I was talking about? Like my point wasn’t “Western books Bad, that’s why I only read danmei,” it was “I want to see This in MORE books!” Does that make sense?

This is my opinion of course, but when I’ve read Western fantasy books with queer romance, I often either felt like authors have to choose to either prioritize the romance or the fantasy. It’s either all romance with little high-stakes angst and worldbuilding (you don’t see enough characters getting brutally stabbed and their love interests wailing over their body in Western romantasy and THAT’S A SHAME), or all fantasy politics interspersed with enemies-to-lovers ~yearning~ and ~sexual tension~ every hundred or so pages (and it takes a good writer to keep my attention through all that). Romantasy doesn’t have enough angst and gore, fantasy with a romantic subplot doesn’t have enough kissing and cuddling. So far, most of the danmei I’ve read is able to strike that balance.

And not to mention that romantasy usually comes in the form of standalone books. It’s a lot harder to do high-stakes worldbuilding with those limitations. Or it’ll be technically a series, but every book follows a different couple in the same world, so you don’t get much time to spend with a single pairing. In danmei, it’s a lot more common to see five, eight, thirteen book-long series with lots of adaptations and additional content, which is generally just more engaging. And it’s all centered around a romance! A queer romance, at that!!

I’m familiar with both your recommendations, though I personally haven’t picked up Godkiller. Funnily enough though, A Marvellous Light was actually one of the Western queer romantasy books I was thinking about when I wrote this post, because as you said, it’s very popular, and I personally didn’t like it. The worldbuilding was too…generically British for my specific tastes, and overall I found it pretty boring. A lot of hanging out and fucking in mansions on the English countryside, not enough stabbing and bleeding out and dying in front of your love interest to keep me interested. OBVIOUSLY THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION! Read what you want. Regency romance is a thing people like and that’s chill. But that’s something that I really like in romance that danmei is just more likely to deliver. So as an example of a Western book that embodies the traits I was talking about in my original post? Not really.

Like I wasn't just talking about books that happen to have gay people and body horror. If that were the case I'd never have picked up another book after reading The Locked Tomb series, because there's no topping perfection. I elaborated a bit more in my tags, which I recognize wouldn't be kept in a reblog, but I meant it more in the sense of an intersection between the two? The intersection between romance and body horror that I was specifically talking about involves like. Melodrama. The agony of the romance is so intense it must be expressed with blood, and that physical, gory pain then goes on to inspire angst between the romantic leads.

So you get characters cradling their lover’s bloody body; holding onto their corpse for years, unable to accept their death; being forced to watch them be stabbed over and over again; mourning for years, devoted to them and only them; etc etc, and any number of new ways authors conceive to torment us. And all the while, the characters are still in proximity to each other. They flirt, they hold hands, they kiss, they cuddle, they get protective of each other, they keep bridal-carrying each other, and on and on.

There’s a level of physical intimacy that goes beyond just sexual tension and an eventual climactic kiss, and danmei authors seem to understand that it won’t detract from the intense violence that also exists in their stories. The gore and violence and body horror goes hand in hand with the romance, it’s not just tangential to it. Intense emotion that both drives the plot and brings a kind of cathartic pain to the audience, who remain secure in the knowledge that it will still work out in the end. Like Aristotelian tragedy for people who get a bit too emotionally attached to fictional characters.

And like, there are Western books that I think danmei fans would enjoy. They don't always hit all the marks I was talking about, but they exist. Danmei fans tend to really like Dark Rise by C.S. Pacat, for instance. A Strange and Stubborn Endurance by Foz Meadows and Winter’s Orbit by Everina Maxwell are fantasy/sci-fi romances with higher stakes and more complex worldbuilding. On the f/f and baihe side of things, She Who Became the Sun by Shelley Parker-Chan and the Jasmine Throne by Tasha Suri are political fantasies with dense worldbuilding, but the romances are prominent enough, and they’re really good. And though it's not for everyone, I'll always preach the good word of Gideon the Ninth, which has tons of agonizing homoerotic angst that scratches a particular itch in my brain. I wouldn’t say any of these fit exactly the bill of what I’m going for (Dark Rise probably comes closest, though Gideon the Ninth would beat it if I thought griddlehark was ever gonna kiss for real) but not all danmei fits my specific standards either, so…¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But yeah. Like obviously there are fantastic books that aren’t danmei, but danmei has certain conventions and tropes that I feel we don’t often get from Western media. For some reason, our media is just…weirdly averse to sincerity and melodrama. Too much romance is considered trite and has no place in, like, a gritty war story. There are exceptions, but it is a trend in our culture that I find disappointing. And it’s a problem Chinese media like danmei doesn’t seem to have as much.

GOD I wish more Western books would take cues from danmei for how to write fantasy romance, danmei is like the only genre I’ve encountered that understands my ideal ratio of fluffy romance to body horror