#let us marry messmer

[deathpressmonogatari]

I had this massive rant last night but I'm just so unhappy with Shadow of The Erdtree. You can feel so much got cut or butchered for the final product and it hurts. The dlc is beautiful, the journey and locations are magical, it's such a good experience. But the story is so flat, so weak.

The lore is interesting. Everything we learn about Marika gives us so much. We know about her, why she did the things they did. Her people. Why she reacted to her omen children the way we did. We learn about the fingers and the absence of the greater will and how that has led to our twisted world, with Metyr reaching out to the nothingness. And that's where it ends.

I've been very critical of Miquella's handling in the dlc, I don't like how someone so important is relegated to like 4 voice lines and zero reason as to why we want to oppose him and join his order; like in his cut ending. He deserves way more screentime and integration into our journey.

Messmer I love, but he doesn't get to do anything? He's a boss, he's the firstborn, and he unleashed his mother's fury on the hornsent. And you kill him and that's that. How does he feel about his siblings? He interacted with Miquella, because how else does Miquella get to Enir-Ilim? He needs Messmer to give him access. Why did they cut that dialouge. I assumed Miquella told him about the shattering. How does Messmer feel about his mother's choice? Her imprisonment? How does he feel about Radahn, clearly positive since he lets all that shit happen. But Messmer deserved more and to say more words

Romina not getting any dialouge in the final cut is bad enough. But no cutscene?? She's clearly very important and she doesn't give us anything. It's so annoying, she is the boss that stands between us and the sealing tree and she's treatrd like fodder and not someone who is clearly VERY important to the story and likely Malenia.

I love St. Trina but it felt like she was forgotten, her lines were so interesting but her quest doesn't progress anything? She talks to us and gives us her view on what Miquella's doing which is great but god I think she deserved more

I've put a shit ton of time into DLCs for DS1, DS3 & BB and I will die on the hill that they were all done better than SoTE. It felt like they wanted to be vague for the sake of being vague to the point of it being less of a mystery to solve and more of a "oh, okay. Guess that's that." If this is meant to be the final content drop for ER (I hope not) then I really don't know what it was meant to achieve. I suppose it did educate us on Marika and the GW and then that's it.

I've seen a lot of takes that we should accept the story they gave us and it's entitled to want something different, but I feel if you're someone, like myself, who puts hours and hours of time into these games and you're used to really good stories and lore being told only for the next big dlc to basically fumble that for our epic Radahn moment is not great. And I am within my right to criticise that, as is anyone else. And if you're a massive fan of the story good for you, I'm not telling you you're wrong. This is MY opinion.

Also we should've had a Messmer consort ending ;)

[trulyumai]

a fire set loose upon blood

—paring: Messmer / wife! reader

synopsis: with queen marika learning of her sons marriage, she called him to the capital, forbidding the man to marry into such a low family. Messmer became angry, the flames taking over his will once more.

—warnings: talking down, violence, light cussing.

The grand hall of the royal palace was alive with a murmur of anticipation, the high vaulted ceilings echoing with the sound of nobles and courtiers preparing for the evening’s festivities. Gold and white drapes adorned the walls, their opulence a stark contrast to the underlying tension that simmered within the room. At the head of the hall, the throne loomed, a symbol of Queen Marika’s unyielding authority.

The siblings were no where to be seen. For why would they show when Messmer needed them so?

Messmer stood in the center of the room, his regal attire starkly contrasting with the turmoil that brewed beneath his composed exterior. His eye, dark and stormy, fixed intently on the figure of his mother as she ascended the throne with a grace that belied the iron will behind her serene facade.

Queen Marika’s presence was commanding, her poise a perfect blend of royal dignity and maternal authority. Her eyes, however, were steely as they regarded her son, her posture unyielding as if the weight of the crown had become an even greater burden in recent times.

“Messmer,” she began, her voice carrying the crisp authority of a queen used to having her commands followed without question. “I have called you here to discuss a matter of utmost importance.”

Messmer’s gaze remained steady, though a flicker of anger danced in his eye. “Speak then, Mother. I am here, and thee will listen.”

Marika’s expression remained impassive, but there was a subtle tightness around her lips that betrayed her unease. “It has come to my attention that you continue to spend time with that… woman, the one of whom I have spoken before. Her status is beneath the dignity of the royal family. She is not of noble blood, and her presence in your life could compromise the integrity of our lineage.”

The words struck Messmer like a physical blow, his face darkening with a mixture of anger and hurt. “Are you referring to my wife?”

Queen Marika nodded, her gaze unwavering. “Yes, my child. Her origins are humble, and her social standing is not fitting for a prince of this realm. I have tolerated your infatuation for too long. It is time to end this folly.”

Messmer’s hands clenched into fists, the tension in his jaw evident as he struggled to maintain his composure. “You cannot simply dictate my heart, Mother. My wife is not only kind and virtuous, but she has shown me a love that transcends titles and lineage. She is more noble in spirit than many of those you deem worthy.”

Marika’s eyes narrowed, a cold edge to her voice. “Love is a luxury we cannot afford, Messmer. The duties and responsibilities of royalty must come before personal desires. You must consider the future of the kingdom, the alliances we must secure. Your marriage must strengthen our position, not diminish it.”

“Strengthen?” Messmer’s voice rose, a mix of frustration and defiance. “Are you suggesting that my happiness, my very heart, should be sacrificed for political gain? This is not merely a matter of alliances or appearances. It is about who I choose to spend my life with, who I love.”

Marika’s gaze remained steely, her voice a firm command. “You will cease this association with her immediately. You are a prince, a knight, and you must act according to your station. You are not to see her again. This is a royal decree.”

The finality in her voice was unmistakable, yet Messmer’s anger flared, his body trembling with the force of his emotions. “A decree?” he spat, his voice laden with contempt. “You would reduce my feelings to a mere decree? I will not comply, Mother. I refuse to end my relationship with her I will not let you dictate my heart.”

The room fell into a tense silence, the murmurs of the court dying away as Messmer’s declaration reverberated through the hall. Queen Marika’s expression hardened further, her regal demeanor unshaken despite the challenge posed by her son.

“Do not be a fool, Messmer,” she said, her tone cold and cutting. “You are treading dangerous waters. Your disobedience will not go unnoticed, and the consequences will be severe. You cannot defy your mother, your queen, without facing repercussions.”

“I am aware of the consequences,” Messmer shot back, his voice unwavering. “But I will not live a lie or endure a life devoid of love for the sake of appearances. If you choose to punish me for this, so be it. But know this: I will not abandon my wife. I will stand by her, no matter the cost.”

Marika’s face flushed with a mix of anger and disbelief. “You are speaking recklessly. You do not understand the gravity of your actions. This is not merely about personal happiness—it is about the stability of our entire realm. Your defiance threatens the very fabric of our dynasty.”

Messmer took a step forward, his eyes blazing with resolve. “And what of my own happiness? What of my right to choose the one I love? You speak of stability, but it is your rigid adherence to tradition that threatens to unravel everything. I am not merely a pawn to be moved about for political gain. I am your son, and I demand to be treated as such.”

Marika’s hands clenched on the armrests of her throne, her knuckles white with the strain. The silence in the hall was oppressive, the weight of the confrontation palpable. Messmer’s words hung in the air, a challenge to the very authority his mother held so dearly.

“You are making a grave mistake, Messmer,” Marika said, her voice strained but resolute. “You will regret this defiance. The path you choose will lead to ruin, and you will have only yourself to blame.”

“Then let it be so,” Messmer replied, his voice steady despite the turmoil within. “I will accept whatever consequences come my way. But I will not forsake my love. If that is my price, then so be it.”

…

“You persist in your defiance, Messmer,” Marika’s voice was cold and unyielding. “You dare to disregard my decree and associate yourself with that woman, Her presence is an affront to the dignity of this royal house.”

Messmer’s anger was palpable. “You cannot dictate my heart, Mother. I refuse to end my marriage. She has been my steadfast companion, and her worth is beyond the constraints of royal lineage.”

Marika’s eyes narrowed, her resolve hardening. “Then you leave me no choice. If you will not heed my words, I shall act to preserve the integrity of our realm.”

With a decisive gesture, Marika signaled to the guards of grace stationed by the grand hall’s entrance. Her voice rang out with unyielding authority. “Seize his so called wife. Remove her from this hall at once. Her presence is a threat to the stability of our kingdom.”

The guards, their expressions set in grim determination, advanced towards his wife, who stood frozen by the window. Her eyes darted between Messmer and the encroaching soldiers, fear etched across her face.

“No!” Messmer’s voice erupted in a raw, desperate roar. “Stay away from her!”

As the guards closed in, Messmer’s fury ignited. He drew his staff with a swift, practiced motion, but the weapon was not his only tool of wrath. With a surge of energy, Messmer’s eyes flared with an intense, fiery glow. Flames erupted from his hands, casting an ominous light across the hall.

The guards, taken aback by the sudden burst of fire, scrambled to shield themselves. But Messmer’s flames were relentless, sweeping through the grand hall with a ferocious intensity. The once-stately room was soon engulfed in a torrent of scorching heat and blinding light.

The flames roared and crackled, consuming the opulent decorations and gilded walls. The guards, now caught in the inferno, screamed in terror as the fire turned their armor into searing metal. Messmer fought through the chaos, his sword still flashing as he cut down those who tried to escape the blaze.

“Messmer, no!” His wife’s cry was barely audible over the roar of the fire. “Darling— please!”

Messmer’s face, illuminated by the flames, was a mask of determined fury. “If they will not let us be, then I will take everything from them. No more will they control our lives!”

With each passing moment, the fire spread beyond the grand hall, seizing hold of the palace’s wooden structures and tapestries. The heat was unbearable, the air thick with smoke and ash. Marika, her regal composure shattered, could only watch in stunned disbelief as her palace was reduced to a blazing inferno.

“Cease this madness!” Marika’s voice, though commanding, was nearly lost in the cacophony of destruction. “Stop him! Put out the fire!”

But it was too late. The flames, fueled by Messmer’s unchecked rage, surged outward, consuming the palace’s grandiose architecture. The inferno spread through the corridors and chambers, its heat radiating through the once-proud halls.

Messmer, his fury unabated, moved his wife towards the palace’s exit. The once-majestic capital, now visible beyond the burning palace, was a stark contrast to the chaos within. The fire, driven by Messmer’s rage, was spreading rapidly through the streets, turning the capital into a scene of total devastation.

Outside, the capital’s inhabitants fled in panic as the fire spread through the buildings. The cries of the fleeing people mixed with the crackling of the flames, creating a harrowing symphony of destruction. Messmer and his little wife, amidst the chaos, made their way through the burning streets, their path lit by the inferno that consumed the city.

“Messmer, we need to leave!” Her voice was urgent, her face pale with fear. “This fire—it’s destroying everything!”

Messmer’s eyes, filled with a mix of anger and sorrow, remained fixed on the burning city. “They will understand the cost of crossing me, of belittling me and having me sit by the shadows!” he said, his voice a low growl. “No longer will they dictate our fate.”

The inferno continued to ravage the capital, the flames reflecting in Messmer’s eyes as he and his wife made their way out of the city. The once-thriving center of the kingdom was now a smoldering ruin, the fire a testament to Messmer’s wrath and his refusal to be controlled.

As they reached the outskirts of the burning capital, Messmer and the girl paused, their breaths coming in ragged gasps. The sight of the destruction was both overwhelming and sobering. The palace, now a ruin of charred stone and ashes, was a grim reminder of the cost of their defiance.

Messmer, his anger slowly giving way to a profound sense of loss, turned towards the shaking girl. “I am sorry for this,” he said, his voice filled with regret. “This was not what I intended. I wanted only to protect you.”

her eyes reflecting the flames’ glow, took his hand. “We will— will be okay,” she said, her voice steady despite the devastation around them. “We will find a way to move forward. I trust you to protect us.”

Messmer nodded, his resolve tempered by the weight of their actions. The future was uncertain, and the path ahead was fraught with challenges. But amidst the ruins of the capital and the ashes of their past, they found solace in their shared determination and the strength of their bond.

The capital, once a symbol of royal might, now lay in ruins—a testament to the power of defiance and the price of love. As Messmer and his wife looked out over the burning city, they knew that their journey was far from over. The flames of rebellion had transformed their lives, and the road ahead would be shaped by the choices they made in the aftermath of the inferno.

The destruction of the kingdom’s heart was a stark reminder of the consequences of defiance and the price of love. The future lay before them, uncertain and fraught with danger, but Messmer and his wife faced it together, bound by their shared determination and the strength of their affection.

Now, there was only one place they could hide.

To the lands in between; the shadow realm that hides beneath the grace.

[catcas22]

Remembrance of the Wild Boar Rider - Messmer and Gaius were both close with Radahn.

Ritual Sword/Shield Talisman - The gladiatorial games had been banned in the Lands Between by the time Radagon and Marika married.

Duelist Shield - The games were never abolished in the Land of Shadows.

So this pretty strongly suggests that Messmer was banished during or immediately after Godfrey's tenure, right? Since Radahn was already around and old enough to train/bond with Messmer, that would mean that the Carian family and the Golden Lineage not only existed simultaneously, but they were by all appearances on good terms with each other. See Radahn's friendship with Messmer, Rennala's apparent sanctioning of Rellana's service to Messmer, ect.

Pre-dlc I'd been imagining Caria and the Golden Lineage more along the lines of two feuding royal families, loosely stitched together by a political marriage with poor Mal and Miq caught in the middle. It's starting to look more like a blended family, even before Radagon and Marika's union.

Pre-dlc, I'd also assumed that Messmer's existence was some long-buried secret that Rykard discovered and based his cult around. Now it's almost certain that they knew each other personally, and that Rykard was fully aware of why Marika had a sore spot regarding snakes. It's also almost certain that Rykard would not have gotten his job in the Inquisition until Radagon became king consort, i.e. shortly after Messmer's banishment.

Imagine Rykard putting on his most diplomatic face and approaching Radagon. "Father, I understand that this new state of affairs is a necessity, painful though it may be. As a token to show that I bear no ill will, might I take up the burden of the inquisition that Messmer is no longer present to carry? Let me put my talents to use -- I will devise new and more efficient means, and set my own smiths to their construction. Neither you nor my dear stepmother need lift a finger."

Later...

Radagon kicks down the door and bursts into Rykard's study, wild-eyed and nearly tearing his hair out. "WHY IS IT SNAKES, RYKARD? WHY IS IT ALL SNAKES????"

Rykard. "Too late, I already ordered a hundred more. They are in production as we speak." Hands Radagon an invoice for a plethora of snake-themed torture devices and several metric tons of red candles, then walks out.

You know he would be petty like that.

[katyspersonal]

I had a fun dream regarding the Elden Ring DLC!!! In fact, it was a DLC for the DLC. Apparently it was my brain's spin on "how it could have gone differently", centered around at least 3 different endings (?) that I got to try! It was hard to say whether I was playing or actually being the main character and experiencing all this (best type of videogame-based dreams!)

The focal point was Divine Gate being destroyed and Miquella being spat back out, in his accursed child body again and the "plot" started when we returned some things/feelings to him to make him active. The amount of dialogue he'd provide depended on the amount of Crosses we visited, and before returning them he was completely limp. In either case he was labeled on the map as 'Heartbroken Miquella' or something. There was one 'default', ending that needed passivity sort of. There were plenty of quests and things to do still that were required for the plot, but provided you didn't do anything "special" it ended up in Miquella basically building a Noah Arc very quickly. Yes, because some unknown force triggered the great flooding that was coming. It would basically destroy the world Greater Will and Fingers created so far, and yet let it be made anew. The good side of it was, that since Death is connected with water in Elden Ring world (souls of those that didn't die properly assume Jellyfish form, Godwyn became a sea creature, Tibia Mariners) a LOT of people were coming back with the water but in pure form. Children of the Stars without their rotten flesh and all. This ending felt bittersweet though; having done so much to 'uproot' the fundamentally wrong things Two Fingers melded into this world, he still could not find the courage to let his friends die yet there was no time to separate their bodies from flesh like Ranni and victims of Astrologers' experiments... Effectively, preserving """filth""" into new world and saving what he could save.

The second ending somehow stopped the flood by effect, granting it protection of his gentle pale yellow light (not to be confused with the oppressive gold of the Erdtree!). Protection from any Outer God and from corruption and rotting from within. That however would result in people like Malenia, Godwyn (Prince of Death), Romina etc getting sealed into yellow crystals for the 'next 1000 years' so they could not corrupt the world but alas they could not be healed still. This ending was centered on Miquella comprehending that no, Radahn wasn't "corrupted by sinful world" into becoming a warmonger compared to younger self but war WAS his nature. And for many people, alas their nature was 'necessary evil' without which the world would be a hollow place. So he accepted he could not "save" some people because that'd not be them anymore. However, he could still let the world rest in Heaven by putting it in preservation for a long time. Not cleaning, just preserving from evil, external or internal. And how this secret ending was achieved? ......by marrying Miquella, which included a large variety of activities in order to distract Leda, avoid Leda, lead him away before Leda appears, sending more friends to talk to Leda, having Dane and Leda shipped (lol okay??) etc hfhygxjjh Because if you messed up this part, she'd not let you close enough to Miquella and you'd be set back to flood ending XD

Third ending had to do with the darkness!! It was a secret one, where you would seek rifts Messmer left along the way where he used Base Serpent powers too much. The rifts were patched out by the earth itself, but you had to reopen them like wounds. Reverse Crosses collecting! Because.. if they all were opened, you could access the Lightless Abyss that Base Serpent came from and force it into the world! It would extinguish any and all light of this world leaving only blue star-affiliated one. A bit like Ranni's ending but EVIL!! Creatures of golden light would get striped from it though (Queelign copes and seethes lol). It ensured a lot of horrors being unleashed though and consuming every "weak" person. Tarnished, Albinaurics and other lightness were remotely safe, but those born of gold and under Ring and relying on it were FUCKED. Especially Marika's family. They'd remain defenseless and be the first to get swallowed, so from now on they'd need protection. And whereas blue stars remained the age would be darkness swallowing all of them until only one remained. I as a "player" knew it'd explode to bring the light again.. but other characters didn't.

.....yet when I wanted to try this unleashed Abyss ending, Miquella himself stopped me by stabbing me with Bewitching Branch (not swinging it, specifically stabbing) and I woke up from very intense feeling of love and yearning for him lol fgfggh The last thing I remember how scared he was that he barely stopped... all that. But I just suddenly found him the most appealing person in the world, as if I never loved anyone else. I can't even describe how it felt. It was like.. every cell of my body suffering and only his touch could cure this torment. I had to lay down about 20 minutes to finally calm down gjfggd I am actually embarrassed by it, especially since intrusive thoughts followed, but also I guess it wasn't my fault? Very weird type of alarm clock though 💔

[beesmygod]

sorry to double ask but my elden ring timeline thoughts have been activated and id like to roughly explain some of it so!

Marika's village is jarred -> Makes a deal with the Greater Will for revenge against the Hornsent -> Usurps the Gloam-Eyed Queen, becomes god, marries Godfrey, seals away Destined Death creating a cycle of reincarnation (and stagnation) in the Erdtree -> Godwyn is born -> War with the Fire Giants and Fell God, genesis of Radagon -> War with Lurnia -> Marika/Radagon marries Rennala -> Messmer is born, allowed to live to fulfill revenge against the Hornsent even tho he harbors visions of flame -> * -> War with the Hornsent, Land of the Scadutree is sealed with shadow (along with Messmer to prevent him to prevent him from returning with the flame), assuming this is the event which causes Mesmyr to lose contact with Greater Will throwing the Two Fingers into chaos -> * -> Panicked Two Fingers makes Radagon divorce Rennala, Grief destroys Rennala's psyche leaving her a crestfallen shell, Marika being the one who truly loved Rennala this forments the schism between her and Radagon/the "Greater Will" -> Stagnation starts killing the Erdtree, Godwyn is deigned a sacrificial lamb to cultivate a new Rune of Death by the "Greater Will" in an effort to cure the Erdtree of its stagnation, Godwyn's intended death is the final straw that fully turns Marika against the "Greater Will", Marika and Ranni both formulate plans to usurp the "Greater Will" (imo separately) -> Marika banishes Godfrey and his army creating the Tarnished, and revives Melina's soul and gives her her mission -> Before the Tarnished return Ranni orchestrates the Night of Black Knives, breaking the new Rune of Death in two, stealing the half that kills your body for herself and leaving Godwyn with half that kills you soul -> Marika's plan being ruined and unable to save her Son destroys the Elden Ring in grief and rage as revenge against the "Greater Will" -> The Shattering war starts, Rykard intentionally gets eaten by a snake god like a dumbass, Godrick becomes a grafting pervert, Radahn holds back the meteor halting Ranni's plans, Miquella's shit fuckery with Mohg and Radahn starts -> We show up :)

*Other demigods are born in this period (including Melina, who is eventually sacrificed because one child with visions of flame is enough to fulfill the revenge and another threatens the safety of the Erdtree. Her soul is retained by Marika for contigency against the Greater Will)*

Started using quotes around Greater Will to denote it being after Metyr lost contact with it meaning it wasn't truly the Greater Will anymore.

Wow holy shit thats a lot sorry

DA BIGGER ASK!!!

oh shit wait my timeline....is the gloam-eyed queen NOT melina? or is melina taking on the former queen's duties/role as part of the ~elden cycle~ or whatever? you're right though, i forgot the GEQ was the guardian of destined death at one point so it couldn't have been her kid. well, that's a fucking wrench in my brain. that's worth meditating on more and wondering about.

OHHH WAIT I READ FURTHER...it's interesting that melina could have been force revived by marika (and why not? she's doing it to a lot of people including us) because i had assumed melina and messmer were another set of radagon and marika's twins who were fucked up and cursed in a different way than the other set they allowed in public.

another weird wrinkle to the radahn stars thing is that i forgot about miquella's eclipse plan that failed to bring godwyn back. if the stars have been stuck in place, then its radahn's fault the eclipse didn't happen. on purpose??? maybe??? i really like the idea of radahn, who by all accounts appears to have been a big softie, being like "nooo my sister don't go to space i wont let you :(" but i had forgotten about how much that side of the family hates marika's lol.

WAIT I REMEMBERED: at one point melina was going to be an empyrean right? we find that statue of a young girl surrounded by three wolves, presumably the same spirit ash wolves we can summon that once belonged to "torrent's former master" (melina!). man wtf. what is melina. who is she. what is she. who sealed her freaking eye and why. and most importantly....why can't torrent triple jump like the ancestor spirit come on bro

[sombersolanaceae]

I'm trying to understand why the final boss of sote was what it was. Spoilers below, obviously.

I'm assuming that Miquella needed someone to be his consort to become a god for some reason, but I'm not sure why it was Radahn. (Was Marika already with Godfrey when she did it? Or is it different for Miquella because he doesn't have the Greater Will/another outer god?) Let's just assume that consort had to be a demigod, because idk who else it would be; Godwyn is out because he's half-dead and that probably complicates things (but was maybe Miquella's first choice, given the stuff with Castle Sol/the eclipse), Ranni is out because she's also technically half-dead and I wouldn't put it past her to have some way to resist Miquella's charms, and Malenia is out because she's already the avatar(? or something) of another god (also marrying half-siblings is one thing but a twin is another).

That leaves Radahn, Rykard, Morgott, and Mohg (and Messmer and probably Melina I guess, but I'm ignoring them).

I would have liked to see Rykard instead. In the base game, we only get to see him as a giant snake monster; it would have been cool to see him as he was before, although afaik he was just a regular guy so that would have been kind of underwhelming from a visual standpoint but maybe it wouldn't lag so horrendously then.

My main theory is that it's because, after breaking his great rune, Miquella's ability to influence people was greatly diminished. The charm he cast on all the NPCs breaks, and in the final fight it takes two attempts for him to steal your heart (unless you use his broken great rune to resist him). Of all the options, Radahn seems like he'd be the easiest for Miquella to control; Morgott is devoted to the Erdtree, Mohg is devoted to the formless mother, and Rykard is devoted to Eiglay/the idea of devouring gods.

Radahn, on the other hand, is a huge fan of Godfrey, who was also the consort to a god, and has no other conflicting allegiances (that I can remember). I imagine that it wouldn't take as much for Miquella to "convince" him to become his consort, compared to the other options.

[nerendus]

There's still a few bears and hippopotamuses wandering untouched in the shadowlands, but in terms of story and main bosses, I can comfortably say I have finished the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC. And boy, do I have some thoughts.

Most of what I have to say is extremely positive, but there is of course the hippopotamus in the room--the ending of the DLC, which I discuss here and here in greater detail. Short gist is yeah, it sucked and the fact that MohgMiq (one of my favourite aspects of the base game) was a lie sucks, and fighting Radahn as the final boss sucks and would have been infinitely better if it was Godwyn instead, but I understand this is coming from the perspective of a person who has been reading into the story for two years, and GRRM probably didn't intend the story to be broken in to two parts and only be furthered explain long after the base game, and if I had played the game for the first time along with the DLC I would not be upset in the slightest.

I've made my peace with it. There's nothing to be done. I will keep the tags muted for a few weeks to just let everyone else cool off probably a lot slower since having a feed full of people complaining isn't exactly fun, especially considering how amazing the rest of the DLC is.

And...that's it for complaints. Now on to unending praises.

First, the gameplay and combat was really fun. It's baked in to be difficult, and while some players probably won't like it, I really really really enjoyed it. It took some time adjusting to, but after that, I just came to expect bosses to be difficult and had a fun time with it.

The setting was absolutely gorgeous. All of the areas just blew my mind. It's kinda embarrassing to admit, but there were multiple moments where I unintentionally started doing the pog face whenever I entered a new area. The Abyssal Forest, or as I like to call it, Louisiana, is by far my favourite area and may be my favourite out of all Fromsoft games.

I also really loved the Shaman Village. I long theorised Marika to have come from a simple background and finding that place....man I want to cry just thinking about it. Marika is my favourite character in the game, and I never stop winning when it comes to her lore.

Jagged Peak was really fucking cool. The music and skybox...mwah mwah. I loved finding the two dragons fighting each other, that was so cool to see. And Igon, my boy, his voice actor deserves a raise. What an insane performance. Bayle was an amazing boss fight, difficult--mainly because my computer couldn't keep up with him--and very satisfying to beat.

Dragon lore was also amazing. I was always confused on the idea of dragon communion if the people who worshiped the dragons were the ones eating the hearts, but it makes so sense that they only eat the hearts of lesser dragons. I loved it. I also loved the dragon priestess, I want to marry her.

I loved the look of gaols in this. They are so pretty, and it was so fun traversing through them while weird jarussy enemies attack you.

Ymir!!!!!!!!! What a freak!!!!!! I loved him and the Mother of Fingers. Fingers lore is a weird phrase to say out of context, but wow, I really loved the fingers lore in this expansion.

Messmer, my beloved, I love him so much. With the trailer, I sorta expected him to be like, a ruthless heartless freak that's losing it, but when you get to him, he just comes off as....lonely and sad. My poor boy. If he would stop attacking me, my Tarnished could have him return to the Lands Between and become their god when they achieve status of Elden Lord but noooooooo. He's very much his mother's son in level of tragedy and very very very easy to sympathise with.

I loved finding St. Trina. I missed out on their entire questline and didn't even ever find the NPC tied to them, but I got a cute flower so I'm happy. :) The game uses feminine pronouns for them, but I still feel a bit weird referring to them as she/her, especially since the base game sort of implies them to be genderfluid but Idk, maybe eventually I can convince myself to call them a she.

Midra and Nanaya are officially my favourite characters, and I don't even really know that much about them. I've come up with a pretty good baseline of what I think is their deal here, but I really want to talk about them more. I'm already outlining a fic about it, but I'd love to have other people's input on their whole story.

That's pretty much it for the big stuff.

Final rating: 10/10. I wanted initially to bring it down to a 9/10 for the ending, but the rest of the story truly is too amazing to make it any lower than 10.

But yeah, I'll start dissecting the lore in my sleep and posting about it here. And of the topics listed with great love here is open to discussion. I want to talk about the good parts this DLC because it truly was amazing, but for now....I am going to sleep.

[starfolk7]

For the character ask: Messmer, Ryuzo and Gabriel :)

YOU DKHSFDS oh lord HERE WE GO

Messmer:

How I feel about this character

BITING HIM (affectionate). For real, I'm going insane over Messmer and his backstory, my little gremlin brain is already cooking up fic for him and it's A Problem. He absolutely Did Commit War Crimes but also mmMMMMMMMMM

All the people I ship romantically with this character

I love doing OC ships, so I love seeing Messmer shipped with people's OCs!! I've seen some lovely art and fic snippets in this vein and it's giving me so much life. I have something going with him and my OC Anya, but it needs a little more time to marinate before I start writing it (read: I have to finish the DLC first I have so much to explore pls help sdfhdf)

My non-romantic OTP for this character

I suppose him and Commander Gaius! I mean, they were friends in canon, anyway, so it's not exactly much of a stretch skdfdhds

My unpopular opinion about this character

Not sure if this is unpopular or not, but here we go: Messmer has pathetic tendencies for sure (helloooo mommy issues lmao), but like hell is he going to show them in front of most people or in any situation where he needs to exude authority. Not exactly a good look when you're reigning over the Land of Shadow and have troops to command. I think some people forget that he can roast a bitch alive if he wants to. That said, I'm all for him letting his walls down around someone he trusts, especially an S/O <3

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

That we could marry him instead of fighting!! Please!! Or at the very least recruit him to help us out, I'm dying over here!

Ryuzo:

How I feel about this character

It's been a while, but every time I hear about him I'm still nibbling on him in the most affectionate way!! What a disaster of a man, I fucking love him <3

All the people I ship romantically with this character

Once again in my canon x OC corner playing in my sandbox lmao. I haven't written anything for him and my girl Aiko in a hot minute, maybe I should change that <w< Altho honestly, any ship with him is bound to be interesting and have depth, so I'll read pretty much any ship with him!

My non-romantic OTP for this character

Ryuzo and Jin! They can be either platonic or romantic in my head, sometimes a secret third thing. Really they're very versatile lol.

My unpopular opinion about this character

He should have been allowed to live and wrestle with his guilt more. That's my personal opinion on the matter, though I'm not sure if it's unpopular!

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

That he got to LIVE. Let him get drunk on some sake and mope about his decisions before he has to get his shit together and man up about his mistakes. We love to see a sopping wet mess of a man go through the wringer!!

Gabriel:

How I feel about this character

*rattles him* This is where all of my Catholic guilt is stored I am SO unwell about this wreck of an archangel I LOVE HIM sdfsdskh

All the people I ship romantically with this character

*holds up my Canon x OC sign* I know it's not like. A super popular way to ship him, but I think it's really cool that me and a handful of other people are exploring this kind of ship with our own OCs! I'm throwing an atheist cyborg at him on my end (fucking love Charlotte lol), so honestly there's a lot explore here and I'm glad I'm not the only one that's doing it! X3

My non-romantic OTP for this character

Okay here me out. Gabriel and V2, if they ever got to meet. They both hate V1. It makes sense in my brain sdfkdsh

My unpopular opinion about this character

He's not a total pathetic mess! War criminal? Yes. Conflicted about his place in the universe, especially after having his ass handed to him by a machine multiple times? Of course. Going through the most horrible and existential point of his existence? You bet. But totally pathetic and useless? I think the fuck not. There's a reason Gabriel went undefeated for so damn long, and he didn't get to that point by being completely useless. It involved dedication and control. I love the memes about him, don't get me wrong, but some out there get the memes twisted up with his true personality.

Also, personally I don't think he would ever have a thing with V1 unless it was grossly one-sided and probably toxic. I know that's not popular but this is my personal opinion and people are 100 percent free to ship what they want. The GabV1el shippers are living their best lives and I'm happy for them! Just not my cup of tea, is all, though I do enjoy the memes about it.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

The story isn't finished yet, so it's kind of hard to say! I'm more for sitting back and waiting to see how it ends, then I can sit here with wish fulfillment. Either way, I'm both excited and terrified to see how Gabriel ends up in canon. It's gonna be a wild ride and I do not have enough seat belts. I'm probably gonna cry over it, too sdfsdfd

[goji-pilled]

MK-S: I had a thought about Rellana and Rennala; First, it helps us to establish a timeline of the Crusade in the Realm of Shadows. It likely occurred after Rennala married Radagon and before he left her, as their two nations were only allies during that timeframe, and the Carians would have had no reason to send in troops prior to them being on the same team.

Second, now that I think about it, this also does imply that Messmer is not a child of Marika and Radagon, as Rellana wouldn’t have joined after Rennala lost her mind with grief. (I think this implies he’s of Marika and Godfrey, but then I realized there’s a non-zero chance of Rennala and Radagon, and there’s uncomfortable precedent on the implications I won’t detail further.)

Third and final, I wonder if Rellana leaving contributed to Rennala’s breakdown when Radagon left her? It became more than just her lover leaving her to another, it’s that she let her own sister go to fight in his war, never to be seen again, in a land that was removed from the historical record, and then he leaves her. And now that I think about it, the palace thrones for the demigods may imply he had the children come with him. So Rennala lost all her family to this man, and all he left her with was a Great Rune in an amber egg. Plus, (I also just realized) this is probably around the time the knights of the Cockoo rebelled against the academy. So yeah, very tragic timing, all things considered.

Oh, another tragic thought: I wonder if Ranni came to visit, but Rennala was too far gone to recognize her? I don’t really think so, but the idea is interesting.

Hope these were fun to read and think about.

there's a person on twt i follow thats really into marika and messmer and concluded its very likely messmer is marika's, and only marika's, precious first born child from before she was queen to begin with. as he is literally described as marika's son without any mention of the queen title.

(which would mean melina was very likely marika's second born child even before godfrey, since she is the only sibling whose directly refrenced as being messmer's sibling)

he also seems to be the only of her children aware of her past and her wish for revenge, as he begins the whole crusade in the land of shadow for her and he seems to take care of the jars in the shadow keep.

as far as when the crusade happens... i'd say its probably between when radagon left (since messmer was described to having been like a big brother to radahn so there was a relationship), but definitely before the shattering. which would add up with the idea rellana leaving to join him possibly contributing to rennala's declining state.

which btw, i think its entirely possible that much like how the fireknights chose to stay with messmer despite being shunned by their (high ranking) families in leyndall, that some of the carian forces may have just decided to follow rellana, as castle ensis seems to be the only place where carian forces can be found.

or maybe im just forgetting something.

[goji-pilled]

shadowkeep is actually super chill too because rellana, bless her heart, offers to get them to messmer without having to fight for their life and it works!

"mongrel intruder," he says as usual, then pauses. "rellana???"

and she's like all giddy, skipping over to (a very confused) messmer getting him in on it and he's lowkey offended his little sister would be willing to marry a tarnished, but marika's in on it and rellana wants him to come along, and he wants to be there too, so he can't say no.

so they burn the shadow, and come across leda and her gang and she just. looks at the group of four tarnished, all seasoned figthers, thiollier, ansbach AND rellana and messmer and think about whether this is even worth attempting. but messmer kneels down, grabs her by the shoulder and goes, "thou wilt let us pass, we will fetch mine brother, piece him back together and make him attend our sister's wedding. did i make myself clear, needleknight?"

and its so obvious he isnt fucking around and WILL demonstrate why he's feared if they dont move. so they do.

and then there is radahn, and antirr wants to do that alone but will call for help if it is needed. its needlessly difficult, but finally miquella shows up, ready to charm them if need be excpet antirr just goes, "thank the stars! FINALLY. dude you're invited to your sister's wedding!'

"malenia's getting married??? really????"

"no the other sister, ranni."

"oh. RANNI IS-" and before he can finished radahn finally does something other than just glaring ahead by yelling over him like, "RANNI IS GETTING MARRIED?? MY LITTLE SISTER RANNI???"

outside the fog gate comes a roar of "YES" they get both filled in on whats happened, and then radahn just throws miquella off his shoulders and goes, "sorry man, but ranni was faster than you, guess the age of compassion is not meant to be. plus i wanna see this, and im not risking pissing off one of the guys who run around with destined death."

the fog gate dissappears, and miquella is so confused because he was??? supposed to be a god??? hello?? instead radahn grabs him by the scruff of the neck, and with the help of boc he's sewn back together and even more confused because suddenly it REALLY kicks in that ranni is getting married and that her idiot consort went through all that trouble because "it should be nice party :)"

tarnished quartet in the land of shadow but its really just them looking for miquella to invite him to ranni and antirr's wedding