#let me know if anything in this is confusing i was lacking sleep today sdfsdfhsdf

[amuelia]

yoooo do you think roose started being leeched after domeric died? B/c in ADWD he says something about the leeches getting rid of rage/pain, then immediately brings up domeric and how Ramsay killed him....

I personally don’t think he started leeching this late - Domeric died in 297 AC, which means at most a year before the northern plot in aGoT starts. But the way Barbrey talks about Roose, it seems to be a consistent character trait that she is used to seeing in him:

“Roose has no feelings, you see. Those leeches that he loves so well sucked all the passions out of him years ago.” - aDwD

While 297 AC is technically “years ago” from when she says this (300 AC), Roose has been in war for around 2 of these years where she didnt see him much, and before that they also didn’t live together, so he has probably been acting like that for longer than just 297 AC.

Catelyn also never comments on his paleness as though it is a new thing (though granted, we also don’t have a canon confirmation that the leeches caused it, but i think it’s likely). There’s also the line “This is a cold man, Catelyn realized, not for the first time“, which seems related to Barbrey’s assessment of him having no feelings, and also hints at him being like that for years. Not that leeches literally/biologically suck emotions of course, but Barbrey seems to connect his lack of emotions to his leeching habit as though both have been coexisting for a long time.

"My squire could take a lesson from you, it would seem. Frequent leechings are the secret of a long life.” - aCoK

"I know." Lord Bolton sighed. "His blood is bad. He needs to be leeched. The leeches suck away the bad blood, all the rage and pain. No man can think so full of anger.” - aDwD

Roose’ leeching habit is interesting because it seems to have an intersecting purpose of not only keeping his physical health, but also being a psychological crutch to keep his emotions mellow. The leeching habit itself likely started as a general caution; Roose seems to be a somewhat anxious person, with a lot of his actions centered around evading risks (stuff like sending out a decoy that wears his armor in aDwD, these grrm quotes [1] [2], his habit of hiding emotions which seems to have the purpose that people cant use them against him, his health-related food choices like drinking hippocras, being paranoid not to be poisoned in aDwD...). Events like his wife Bethany dying from a fever and his son Domeric dying from a sickness of the bowels probably made his health habits more intense (because they are events that happened to people close to him it might have increased his fear for himself), even resulting in what are probably adverse health effects in case of the leeching (which seems to make him pale due to how excessive it is, and likely makes him lack energy which could cause his quiet voice and probably even has an influence on his mellowed behaviour).

Since I generally hc that his leech habit got worse in the years after Robert’s Rebellion (not directly caused by RR, just generally getting worse with age), in pictures where he’s younger i usually give him a healthier skin tone 🤔

[Speculation, cw rape mention] I perceive it as likely that he went through somewhat of a character change, either in the years following Robert’s Rebellion or starting earlier. In the story of the miller’s wife (taking place before RR), despite current Roose trying to spin it as a rational act in his retelling, i believe we have an instance of past him acting very emotionally-driven (his retaliation to being “cheated” reads similar to ramsay being sent into a “black rage” when personally insulted). Barbrey’s statement i quoted earlier also has a tinge of bitterness to it, and it also seems Roose must have a reason to believe the leeches suck out “anger and pain”. Since Theon and Catelyn never comment on him having changed, it seems likely that he started a character change a little before Robert’s Rebellion - Though since Cat never was close to him, she’d also probably percieve changes in him more as her just adjusting the initial impression she had of him rather than an outright character development.

But i also don’t think he went through anything, like, Aeron-level drastic - he likely just took care to cultivate a very strong public persona (calm, quiet, emotionless) to avoid any risk of people reading his thoughts or him doing anything rash or embarassing. It’s also likely that age mellowed and matured him like it does most people, and the leeching may or may not have an actual physical effect that further influences his personality. While i don’t think that he was ever as bad as Ramsay (though Roose also undoubtedly did his fair share of horrifying acts), the way he gives him advice seems to show he’s under the impression that Ramsay could simply “clean up his act” (to the public eye at least), implying Roose might have done a comparable development. However, there also seems to be a frustration/disdain in Roose (considering he seems to avoid Ramsay somewhat - residing at Barrow Hall earlier in aDwD which Ramsay is banned from, indirectly sending him messages later in aDwD, and holding political meetings without him in A Ghost in Winterfell), hinting that he might realize by now that Ramsay is a lost cause.

Though again, since Roose is not a PoV and we don’t have any PoV that is close to him/likes him/talks about his past, this is all speculation which can be proved or disproved both by different readings of his lines and new developments in TWoW.