#lawrence adam and mark and amanda make me fucking INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bathroomtrapped]

What if they didnt fight cary and convinced him to return for saw 3... Then, would the scenario "jigsaw kidnaps larrys family" become real? Then, then, would it be more awesome than his coming back in saw 3d? I guess the answers yes. I'll forever hate Larry's treachery.

if it went according to plan, allison is kidnapped again and lawrence takes the role of lynn where he cares for john (iirc). either way, yeah theyre involved again. not sure abt diana tho?

okay so, sorry to be That Guy. but lawrence as an apprentice makes the most sense for his character and the saw universe and im going to use this random ask to voice my opinion so thank you for using my ask box as a saw google lol

A LOT more under the cut

i DO with we got to see that version because it would mean more lawrence screentime and i genuinely do not dislike any saw content. idc how shitty saw x is, it could undo everything and shit all over it but i would NOT care. any content means an avenue to explore saw further

thats one of the main reasons the apprentice reveal was so good, in my opinion. before i get to why its great for lawrence, i want to point out why it works SO well for the other aspects. amanda is johns pseudo-daughter, he LOVED her like a father. we see it at the end of saw iii. no matter what he says, john does not forgive people. he punishes jill for losing their child but at the end of iii, we see him genuinely look at amanda with love and forgiveness. and yet? he never trusted her enough to tell her about lawrence. this random fucking guy who didnt even WIN, is the golden child. trusted with his wife!

as for mark, he is the definition of jigsaws philosophy. he may have jostled his victims around but he had the strongest will to live out of anyone and never relished in hurting them (crying after kidnapping paul + killing seth). another reason i like 3D is that he cant even look at jills corpse. his "game over" wasnt victorious. not like johns always is. YET he is not trusted. hes been there since before amanda, followed his rules, lived his philosophy and he was shafted again. i think the reveal does a lot of good for the apprentice-john dynamic for everyone involved.

secondly, JOHNS TESTS DONT WORK. CANONICALLY. they do not!! amanda says it herself. jigsaw traps make people worse, and not just bc thats a logical response to trauma. working for john amplifies everyones worst traits. amanda became a killer, mark grew to find some sort of enjoyment in killing (at the very least, it made him dependent on it for power and a sense of identity after the loss of his sister)

lawrences test was designed to show him what john said he was missing: empathy. he has none! he lies and doesnt care, he cant understand other peoples points of view, and he prioritizes his own whims and wants over everyone. CONSISTENTLY. so what happens when his tests presents him with the very definition of his heart and moral core, then asks him to kill him? he gets fucking worse!

lawrence is a narcissist. as in the personality disorder. he has low empathy (this is canonically the reason for his test!! not just "he cheated" or "he ignored john", he does these things for that reason) and god. just look at the symptoms, its like they made every scene an example of them on purpose. the idea that his game would be a wake up call and cause him to reflect and adjust his behaviors is just insane to me! within the canon logic of the story, and when taking into account his clear personality disorder... its the most logical choice (source: i have it and also i have eyes. SIDE SIDE note, my real source is that hes a clear parallel to john and john was evaluated for NPD in his psychiatric files in the saw game. so theres that) i think this has a lot to do with people not understanding low empathy. they cant understand why he would betray adam and join jigsaw

trauma wont change that overnight. getting fixed by john for 2 years without seeing the sun certainly wont help either

lawrence as an apprentice is the most logical progression of his character. he does what he wants and what he has to, at the expense of others. hes isolated from his wife and child. he cant understand other peoples prespective. he has an issue with guilt or feeling empathy for people, including those suffering like john. this wont change bc he experienced his first shred of empathy after MURDERING someone he got to know for 6 hours. low empathy =/= no empathy. thats like saying dude bros who do shrooms and experience empathy for the first time in their life are changed people. they arent lol

also the contrast between his game over vs marks 5 minutes earlier is SO important for their characters. theres so much good shit in that movie. take out the corny lines and jill mistreatment, and u have a lot to work with! so yes i do think that itd be more awesome. i love saw 3D and what it did for his character. im not sure how saw iii hostage lawrence wouldve expanded on his character, but id rather go with saw 3D bc im confident they didnt butcher his character. im glad that a beloved protagonist is a complete narc, and hes still beloved! im never giving that up

[faiiryygff]

Where are you Adam? Part 2

In this part 2, Cordelia has a track that we probably lead her to Adam: Doctor Lawrence Gordon. TW: mention of violence, blood, knife...

-Please, if you ever find my sister, don't tell her I am here, please, she won't handle it.

-But she deserved to know!

-I know but I am the only one she has left, if she learn that I died, it will crush her.

-You won't die, I am going to get help, I promise, Adam.

-Don't make promise you can't keep Lawrence.

-What was your relationship with Hoffman? asked Gibson while sitting in front of me.

-Hum, well, I don't know, we weren't friends or anything, we just nice to me, probably felt pity for me. I don't know, I never questioned it actually.

-Do you think it has anything to do with his sister?

-Maybe, anything is possible I guess, trying to save me as he failed to save his sister? I really have no idea how his mind work. I've knowed him for I think six years now and he is a very complex character.

-Do he know where you live?

-Yes, One time he drive me home, I was called at the police station to identify a dead body. Thanksful it wasn't Adam and he just shaked me and I couldn't moved, breath at all, I think I had a panick attack. Hoffman offered me to drive me and I said yes. He dropped me in front of the building and left.

-Okay, did you ever find anything weird about him?

-Hmm, I don't know, I don't really see him that much to see anything. What's all the questions about?

-Have you heard of the recent murders?

-Yes I've heard it's awful. But it can't be John Kramer since he died two years ago right?

-Yes, well the thing is we think that he had an accomplice.

-Yes, Amanda Young, I know and I have already been questioned about her. She lived in the same building as my brother, talked to her a couple of times and that's where the story end.

-Yes I know about that. Cordelia... If you are here it's because we believe and actually know for sure that his other accomplice is Mark Hoffman.

I froze. What? Hoffman? No, it can't be. I just couldn't believe what I had just heard.

-Cordelia?

-Yes sorry, I... I just don't get it. How? Why?

-John's wife, Jill Tuck gived us a lot of proof and it matches everything.

-Wouah, it's fucking insane. But why I am here exactly? Please don't tell me you think I have something to do with it or I am going to cry.

-NO, NO, not at all I just wanted to warned you since well, you know him and maybe he will try to contact you or maybe harm you, we don't know.

-Thank you, but I think I am going to handle it just fine. I am a big girl, I can take care of myself.

-I don't doubt that a minute but you just can't know what Hoffman is going to do since his secret has been exposed.

-Well, if I don't call you tomorrow it's because I am probably dead.

-Cordelia...

-Sorry, I'll be careful.

A man barged into the interrogation room and gived Gibson a couple of pictures. As he looked at it, his face melt and he didn't dare to look at me.

-What is it.

-We found a couple of pictures in Hoffman apartment, it's all pictures of Jigsaw's victims. And one of them is...

-Is what?

-Is... Just take a look at it.

He hand me to paper and when I looked at it, I almost screamed. It was a picture of Adam. It was probably a couple of days before he went missing. Hoffman might had followed him to know his routine before kidnapping him and putting him in one of those sick games.

As I stared at that picture, I realized that I've been played all along, Mark wasn't trying to be nice to me, he was just trying to save himself. I couldn't control myself anymore and started crying, my brother was dead and the person I trusted was an asshole who manipulated me.

-Are you going to be okay? Asked me Gibson who seemed really worried about me.

-Yeah, yeah, I just need a minute to process the thing.

-Sure, sure, no worries, take your time.

-I just don't get it, why being nice to me and say that he was going to help me find him and he fucking knew he was already dead and it was his fault?!

-Probably the need to be a goddamn hero all the time.

-Can I please go home? I think I am going to be sick.

-Do you need a ride.

-No, thank you but I think I am going to walk.

On the way home, I couldn't believe what was happening, An hour ago, my brother was still missing and I had someone I could trust. Now? My brother is dead and I have no one to trust, never had actually.

I felt deeply sick, how could he do that when he knew what he felt like to lose a sibling. I never wanted to see him again, because I knew that if I did, he would had probably killed me.

My apartment was cold. Did I left a widow open? Damn it, I am going to freeze. As take my coat and shoes off, I thought an entire bottle of wine would probably help me feel better. I wasn't a drunk or anything but drinking seemed like the only thing to help my drowned my sadness.

I didn't even turned to light, my eyes were exhausted from all tears for the way home and I knew my way into the kitchen by heart. I opened my cabinet and just take the entire bottle without a glass, I wouldn't need it at all, the bottle would be empty in ten minutes, or way less... Still in the dark, I made my way into the living room. I was going to turned on the light to find the remote of my TV but somthing distracted me, there were someone on my couch and I lived fuckin alone. I quickly turned on the light and with horror, Mark Hoffman was sitting right in front of me. OH MY GOD, I was going to die.

-Took you long aenought to get here.

-What the FUCK are you doing here?

-Can't say hello to an old friend?

I still had my bottle of wine in my hand, I wanted to throw it on his face but I think he read my mind before I could do anything.

-If I were you, I would just put that bottle on the table before you get hurt.

I quickly did it and step back directly.

-What's going one? You seemed stress.

-Please, just leave.

He get up, I started shaking, it was the end of my life.

-What do you know.

-I know that you helped John Kramer and that you killed my brother.

-Hmm, I would have prefered that you never would have to heard of it.

-Why? So you could manipulate me more.

-I would never do that.

-Fuck you Mark! You lied to me all this years making me believe that my brother was still out there alive! How could you! I thought we were friends!

-Friends? "He laughed" We were never friends Cordelia, it wasn't personal I swear but you were looking where you shouldn't be looking, be grateful I didn't kill you.

-Kill me? Like you killed my brother?

-Look, if you are still alive it's because their is a reason.

-Which is?

-You and I are the same.

-You're sick, we are nothing alike. If your sister could see you, she'll be so much disappointed in you . Maybe it's better that she died so she don't have to see what a fucking psychopath you are.

His face changed, no signs of emotion, void. I shouldn't have said that.

-Please, kill me if you want but tell me the truth, why being nice to me all this years when you were the one responsible for my grief?

His eyes gained back some emotions.

-You want the truth? Fine, I didn't know Adam had a sibling, especially a younger sibling that had no one else but him. Seeing you searched him all this years made me remember when I lost my sister and that's why I say we are similar, we both lost the person we loved.

-It doesn't change anything you still killed him and lie to me. This is fucking twisted and don't think at it will make you any better that you "helped me", because it doesn't, it make it worst.

I didn't said anything, just stared at me. I could see his knife in is pocket.

-You reminded of my sister, you are exactly like her. And that's means trouble to me.

He came towards me but I couldn't go back, the wall was blocking me.

-And why is that?

-Well first, you know to much and that's going to be a problem at the end and you look like her, you act like her and I can't

I didn't even saw it coming that a sharp pain in my stomach. I looked down and a the knife I saw earlier was planted in my stomach. Hoffman was still holding it.

-W..Why? I said while looking up at him, he was avoiding my glance

It hurts, a lot, I was trying to push him by putting my hand on his face and with my other hand i was trying to get this knife away from me but he was holding his gripe.

My knees to shake, I was getting weaker, I was fucking dying.

I was falling but he didn't let me, he laid me down on the ground and took the knife out. It felt like I was being stabbed again.

-Why? I said again while tears started to appear.

He didn't even said a word to me, he let me there, like a piece of shit. He left me there to die alone.

I was so angry that I let my self get manipulated by this asshole. I was sad and I started crying that was dying without find my brother but at least I was going to see him again the afterlife, at least I hoped

Gordon's point of view

Still no answer. God damn it, where is that girl?

As soon has she got of the police station, Cordelia called me. They said to her that Hoffman was a accomplice of Jigsaw and he killed her brother. Obliviously I knew that but I was definetly not going to tell her that. But if she knows, it means that Hoffman knows and she is in danger. They told her to be careful but whatever she do, she wont be safe.

I know where she lives so I rushed their because no answer means no good news.

But as soon I was standing in front of her doors, I had a terrible bad feeling. No sound was coming of her apartment, probably meant she wasn't there but I had to check to be sure.

The door is unlock and no sign of Cordelia.

-Cordelia? Are you in there?

No answer, I kept walking until I saw her but not in the way I would have wanted to. I was only able to see her feet, she was laying down, the bar kept from seeing her whole body. I was expecting the worst.

I walked forward a little bit and started to see blood, and more blood until her whole body was surrender by it. She was stabbed, the knife was just next to her. Blood was coming out of her stomach and mouth. Her eyes were still open and I could see a tear on her tears.

She wasn't moving.

Hoffman found her before I did.

Cordelia is dead