#kripke era spn was genuinely so good

[sampegger]

rewatching the first season of supernatural (to remind myself that this show used to be good) and man. sam really did try so hard to get out. he tried so hard to go back to college and leave that family. you'll be watching an episode and it'll be like "who're you texting?" "my friends from stanford, i'm trying to keep in touch with them" and "i'm just taking some time off to deal with jess is all" and every "we need to find the thing that killed mom and jess" is said with such urgency and purpose because it needs to happen now. sam needs it to be done and over with so he can go back to school, coming back to the life was done with purpose and intent to accomplish a single hard set goal as fast as possible so he could move back to stanford and never look back. like, watching the scarecrow episode with meg, seeing sam agree with her notion that at least they're living their own lives and nobody elses, it almost made him ditching her and going back to save dean feel like it came with a sense of... guilt? he's going to listen to john about chasing some random hunt instead of finding azazel because he can't leave dean to follow john's every order all alone. yes, he saves dean, and feels pretty good about his choice to come back in the immediate aftermath, but it feels like a betrayal to himself in the long run, like the edges of that choice were tinged with a wrong feeling deep in your gut. and i feel like that's part of what makes the original kripke era hit so hard, is that, if you stick to the original planned ending, there is no getting out. no matter how hard sam fights to just be normal, things were always going to end with him and dean dying together tied to their inescapable fates. i just. the original kripke run of supernatural was so good and looking at the first five seasons as their own separate entity really. it makes the entire narrative that much more devastating to look at.

[nexus-my-beloved]

Just sat here thinking about spn and realized I genuinely don't know what the fuck season 9 or 10 were about. Like. I know moc Dean was in there somewhere. But altogether I literally don't remember shit.

After s5 I FULLY lose the plot of telling anyone ANYTHING of what spn is about. Like, I get s6ish, and sort of s7, but then I lose it. I know purgatory happened and leviathans happened and I remember metatron and Sam being soulless but I genuinely can't remember when Crazy Cas fit in there. Chronologically I'm so confused.

I think after watching s7 / midway through s8 I stopped watching out of enjoyment to the plot and more out of obligation to finish the show. I'm here to admit I'm on s11 but haven't watched in months because I'm actually bored and everything felt like a trainwreck of random plotlines. I love supernatural, I do, but I enjoyed Kripke era and then started losing it after. I'd gladly rewatch anything s1-s5 but after that I get iffy. S6 was cool and I LOVED s8's finale but generally I just do not vibe with most things after s5.

Maybe I just need to rewatch?? I need to do that anyway to refresh the plot in my head. I love this show, I do, but good GOD I am lost. Please tell me I'm not alone 🙏🏻

[samdyke]

not to sound like a samgirl but i miss s1-5

[castielcommunism]

I.... Dislike the later seasons so I've only seen them once or twice so. 😔 It's good to know Sam gets better about it, at least?

If you wouldn't mind, could you give some examples? Because genuinely the ONLY opinion of anything I can ever remember Sam having is in Folsom Prison Blues 😬

I’m about halfway through season 8 on my rewatch so I can’t speak to late seasons, but like my general impression of mid to late seasons sam re: politics is not so much concrete political views but cultural associations with politics. He’s a vegetarian/healthy eater, he exercises, there are some passing references to him being at least surface level feminist (iirc he got upset about the word bitch in s14, things like that), so culturally he appears much more liberal than Dean.

Sam and Dean sort of lose a lot of their side characteristics post-s5. during kripke era Dean openly distrusts cops, is cool with stealing from convenience stores (“small business owners”), sympathises with prisoners, etc., in contrast to Sam, who is much more on board with the mainstream political atmosphere of Bush-era white America. This slowly becomes reversed, with Dean maintaining the rugged macho guy stereotype but loses the less “savoury” opinions that a conservative audience would find distasteful under Obama, ie like disliking cops and stealing. Sam becomes the voice of reason on the show, a counter to Dean’s wild lack of inhibitions, and because Dean inherits the more reactionary politics of early spn Sam de facto becomes more liberal by standing in opposition to him.

I don’t think the show gets more progressive as time goes on, it just becomes less reactionary. The politics of season 1-5 are pretty coherent and solid, and stand out compared to the rest of the show, which is much more generically liberal and varies depending on who the showrunner happens to be. So Sam becomes the nice guy cop of the brother duo, is more concerned with people’s feelings, is associated with liberal college sjw stuff by way of his vegetarianism (although that has much more to do with his individual issues surrounding cleanliness/purity as opposed to environmental concern), and is the quote-unquote “girl” out of the two brothers - his masculinity is questioned frequently by Dean, which places him culturally, if not actually, into the liberal camp.

[cassierobinsons]

i apologize for misunderstanding some of your first point-i actually do agree sam handled dean's hell trauma incredibly poorly, and i think it's interesting for me on a personal level that it's the season i like him best, along with season 8, where he's also genuinely unsympathetic about dean's further trauma in purgatory. sam is most interesting to me when he's entering bastard mode and acting like john.

WIAWSNB is THAT episode, totally, but i think that idea comes from more of a byproduct of dean's self-loathing where even if he got a "perfect" normal life he can't imagine himself as anything other than a fuck up and a loser. it's implied he stole from mary and maybe sam too i believe.

i guess my kneejerk reaction is around some of the broader discourse i've seen that paints dean's struggles with alcohol as like, a moral failing he needs to make up for so he can end up in the user's ideal way of living. instead of like you said, it being a response to never ending trauma. the later seasons don't really get into it except maybe the widower arc which is controversial enough for dean's character that it gets overlooked. you're basically watching a character fall apart slowly for 10 years and just begging the show to just let the guy sit on a beach for a bit to experience even a modicum of peace.

(following on from this ask)

no worries anon, i actually appreciated the opportunity to further clarify my point because it was a little unclear in my own head too. forgot to mention it last night, but i think edlund writes sam a little pricklier than than the other writers do (not in a weird way like dabb vs dean, in a genuinely fun/interesting way) so that influences how i look back at his behaviour in 4x08. i mean, even if i fully understand why sam was trying to poke & prod the truth out of dean, we can all agree that trying too hard to get someone to confess to their trauma instead of letting them come out with it in their own time does more harm than good.

yeah s4 sam did notttt handle dean's hell trauma well. a lot of samgirls will point out that dean's reaction to the powers/blooddrinking is bad and i agree! but that doesn't account for sam's flippant referencing of dean's time in hell in say, 4x09, just because he's frustrated dean's being cagey. i agree that it makes s4 sam all the more interesting and john-like though. 4x19 jump the shark is an aptly-named episode judging from premise alone, but this moment is like, transcendently good. it's also why i've said after school special is out of place in season 4.

anyway - enough about sam. this is about the hotter brother!

agreed on WIAWSNB! it's an episode about how even if dean doesn't let on, he fundamentally sees himself as the bad seed of the family, as the eternal fuck-up. dean thinks that even with a relatively stable upbringing he'd be a harddrinking loser who steals from family members to pay gambling debts. and that isn't even an accurate description of regular dean!

no, i get it! tbqh a lot of takes on dean irk me deeply because they feel like they come from people who lowkey think of him as an uncouth lumpenprole trogolodyte iykwim. dean's alcoholism isn't a moral failing, it's an unhealthy coping mechanism he developed to deal with his untenable real life circumstances. and i feel like kripke era understood that. but then it just kept getting worse? and the further the show went on, the greater the distance put between the audience and the memory of the original trigger for dean's developing addiction, meaning that both show & fandom began to treat the alcoholism like a character flaw dean innately had because he sucks that much. you and i both know he can't heal until he can actually rest but because spn is a bad show he can never rest. they never even had a beach episode!!!

anyway this is why ideal spn is the post-kripke era sitcomnatural au that vaguely exists in my head.

[ficforthought]

On being SO DONE with M*sha, a rant a decade in the making!

After giving this some thought I'm going to go ahead and give my opinion on Misha and yesterday’s situation in public for the first time ever. I was going to just post on Twitter but since this has been 12 years in the making I have exceeded the number of tweets I can put in one thread! There’s A LOT in here, so my summary is also long. I'm aware that I will lose followers over this, I'm not looking to offend anyone but it will inevitably happen. I wish anyone leaving all the best as fellow human beings.

TL;DR - having kept quiet for so long I’ve finally reached my limit and it’s all come bubbling out. I’ve never been a fan of Misha, I’ve been ambivalent for the most part, but have never criticised him in any hateful way, that's not who I am, but after all these years of putting up with his bullshit, attention seeking and troublemaking I am DONE. Deleting his tweet containing the word Wincest and replacing it with an APOLOGY just to pander to his Minions and save face is the straw that broke the camel's back. He has consistently pushed his ship on not only fans but on other actors (despite Jensen's discomfort, and him having repeatedly made his feelings known on it), he has stood by while his Minions/Hellers have harassed, victimised, doxxed and sent death threats to people based on their FICTIONAL ships. He has pandered to their gatekeeping, constantly demanded attention in obvious and not so obvious ways, and to the best of my knowledge never criticised their actions even though he's aware of it in a very real way. Some of his Minions have now taken their shit into The Boys fandom and created negativity for Jensen before the guy has even got a foot through the set door, and how is that supporting one half of your ship?

Misha has claimed to be a victim of targeted harassment from Wincest/brother fans (not only shippers) yet his fans have said and done the most despicable things on his watch, all in the name of what he must think is entertainment, or even his idea of a ‘joke’.

Any respect I had for the man based on his humanitarian work has gone because I can only take so much hypocrisy. He and his pandering because of a desperate attempt to be woke and wholly inclusive (which is actually impossible, no matter how good intentions are) are beyond pathetic. Whilst I have never seen why people think he’s so great I have friends IRL and online who genuinely adore the man, yet they have been shocked and upset by his contempt for half of the fandom that made him somewhat famous. It's disgusting and I'm not scrolling by any more. Misha, I hope to never see you on anything J2 related in future because none of us need that kind of negativity, *especially* not J2. Be gone, foul fiend!

OK, so to the too long part. Please be aware that these are my opinions as a fan of the show, of Sam and Dean, and J2, not only as a shipper. I can separate canon and fanon, and can view canon from a gen or shippy PoV. Whether you agree or disagree with my opinion let me be clear that I do not condone constant bashing and hate of a person or character so this isn’t the start of a regular thing for me. It's possible to have an opinion and not show the same vitriol that has been following this man around for years, and that’s what I’m doing. I've not posted this to prompt more negativity, it's simply to get it off my chest and make it clear how I feel. I stand by my philosophy of ship who you want to ship, enjoy it, but don't force it on other people and don't be a dick about it…hmm, that kinda sounds like familiar behaviour, though, does it not?!

I have ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE with other people liking Misha, Cas or Destiel when it’s for the love of the characters and the ship. What I *do* have an issue with is people who are the true definition of a Heller. I don’t see that as a generic term, don't be ignorant and think I do because I know the difference between actual ship fans and the crazies, both ships have ‘em and I want no part of either of their venom. If you are reading this and class yourself as a Heller then you are part of the problem so run along and as you are all so fond of saying, 'get help' and take your bestie king with you.

I’m stating my opinion in what I feel is the most mature way I can, because unlike many people on SM, I am an adult and can act accordingly, with forethought and without resorting to temper tantrums and bullying of other people to get my point across. I am able to tell the difference between reality and fiction, I don't tar everyone with the same shipper brush and I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion, but as we know opinions are like arseholes, we all have them and sometimes they stink. Unlike some, for the most part in life (online and offline) I *do* stand by what I say and don’t backtrack or delete things to appease the masses. I have spent a lot of time writing this out to be as clear as possible without being intentionally hateful. Bear with me jumping between actor and character where relevant, at this point they're conjoined. I will say this before I go any further, it doesn’t end well for Misha, I don’t mince my words and if you don’t like seeing facts and opinions laid out, this isn't the post for you.

I’ll say right off the bat what most of you have surmised - I’ve never held Misha (or Cas) in high esteem but I have never *hated* on him. I have shared mild criticism of his actions and opinions on Cas over the years but never, I feel, in any way that has made me feel I have something to apologise for. I have said several times I've been unhappy about Misha crashing con panels, taking attention away from J2 when at those cons *most* people paid their hard earned money to see the STARS of the show they love, first and foremost, and anyone else is a very nice bonus. The odd appearance here and there crashing a panel is fine (and Misha isn’t the first or last person to do it), maybe take up a few minutes then leave, but when someone commandeers an entire panel, that's just not on. It's not only selfish, rude and attention seeking but also disrespectful to other actors, fans and to the organisers who work hard to make sure everything ties in to give us the best con experience we can have. Everyone gets their turn on stage, there's no need to try and hog any more of the limelight, Veruca Salt style. Oh, and if you’re reading this and not getting that reference, (a) you shouldn’t be on my blog because you’re far too young, (b) look it up, and if you still don’t get what I’m saying… well then please refer to point (a). Thank you, kindly!

There was a time in Kripke's era where Cas was - I feel - intentionally used as a pawn by the writers to divert *canon* from the ‘questionable’ relationship between Sam and Dean, i.e. Wincest focus. Prior to that people (other fans) lightened up and just accepted the fact that Wincest had been there since day one in terms of the writing of the show and the fandom. All the cast and crew knew - J2, Kripke and JDM in particular - and made light of it, never judging, never shaming and often encouraging it because they understand it’s a fun part of fandom. Wincest was present enough to be part of the not so subtle subtext, as I said people just accepted it. Kink tomato was alive and well, so was ‘don’t like, don’t read’ and we all just scrolled over things we didn’t like without turning everything into a personal vendetta and excuse for bullying others who didn’t share our views. When the angels came into the plot I think most of us Wincest fans gave the Dean/Cas innuendos the small laugh they deserved and then turned back to the focus of the show which was the brothers, as it had always been intended. Misha, however, milked those moments as much as possible which was amusing at the start but got old *very* quickly, not just for fans (shippers and non shippers alike), but for other actors, in particular Jensen who is on record MULTIPLE times showing his dislike for Destiel. He told people outright that's not how he was playing the relationship between the two characters and CATEGORICALLY said "Destiel doesn't exist" but did it end there? No, it did not because neither fans or Misha let it go, in fact Misha only pushed more, goaded fans into flogging the same dead horse as much as possible. He’s never stopped, not even when there was so much discord in the fandom, a huge wedge was driven into it because of ships, which IMO he heavily contributed to.

Fast forward to over a decade later (a decade, seriously man, let it fucking go!) he didn’t even stop when Destiel did partially go canon. I have never doubted that Cas loved Dean (Sam, too) because in SPN lore angels are made to love, even rebellious ones. I, along with many others, liked that about Cas because who doesn't love a rebel, especially one rebelling for very good reasons, and because of those two wonderful men? Sam and Dean allowed him to see beyond what he'd been brainwashed to believe his entire existence. The fact is that although the nature of that love changed for Cas, it never did for Dean and was CANONICALLY UNREQUITED because Dean was incapable of loving anyone else as much as he loved Sam. All that mattered to Dean, even when he saw other characters as "family" was still Sam…ALWAYS Sam, every step of the way. Again for those who have too much Misha shaped wax in their ears, that’s canon. Whether people choose to see that love platonically or romantically is up to them, soulmates don't always have to be romantic, either way, brotherly love won out above all else on the show. No amount of Misha screaming ‘hey look, Destiel!’ changed that, but it sure didn’t stop him trying, did it?

So now that the obvious has been stated, here's something else we all know - never once in all of the years on the show did Misha drop rallying of the troops to his precious, ego stroking ship. Never once (that I am aware of) has he called out his Minions and Hellers on their continued harassment of everyone involved in the show and other fans despite the fact that they have bullied, victimised and wished bodily harm, rape and death on people who don't see their ship and because didn't get the ending to the story that they wanted. Not once has Misha shown any remorse for the trauma his "fans" have caused, and I’m taking REAL trauma, here, not the kind Twitter stans see as ‘triggering’ - people have been driven to close SM accounts, attempted, and in some cases succeeded in taking their own lives. These Minions have openly mocked Jared’s struggles with depression and anxiety, and Misha - who claims to be friends with J2 and be supportive of them in every way  - has stood by and let it all play out, knowing full well some of the goings on, if not the full extent of how toxic these people are. We know he sees things being said online, and I have absolutely no doubt he spends time online searching his name for things that are relevant in some way to him in an effort to insert himself into a current conversation, or even start one so that attention is on him. Gotta stay relevant, somehow, right, Mish?

He has actively encouraged bullying by his actions of enabling the behaviours above, both by the flogging of the aforementioned dead horse, AND by not objecting to unacceptable behaviours. Remember when Minions and Hellers were slating J2, particularly Jared, for not posting on SM about BLM and other topics? Yeah, he didn’t ask them to stop doing that, either, even when he was tagged in things along the lines of ‘If Misha can post why can’t J2?’ etc. There have been some token protests, con vids I've seen have show his 'objections' which IMO have been done in a very tongue in cheek way, meaning that those people who needed to be pulled aside and told to change their ways just carried on, because their evil overlord didn’t explicitly explain it in terms a three year old could understand that bullying and forcing your opinion on others is WRONG. Not all of his cult are young and impressionable, not by a long shot, but many of the more vocal and vitriolic ones are.

As a father himself I wonder what Misha would do if he found out that his kids were behaving in ways his Minions are? I’m aware they’re young, but kids are cruel and bullying doesn’t just happen online. Even at whatever age they are, would he laugh it off the way he appears to have done with all of this fandom toxicity? Not bloody likely! I wonder if he’s as desperate to gain the approval of his family, friends and colleagues as he appears to be for that of his Minions/Hellers? I would certainly hope so, but that question can only be answered by Misha, himself, and I can and will not presume to speak on someone else's behalf on things in their personal life. For the record I would never presume I know what J2's answers would be on anything, however I do feel that after 15 years I have an accurate gauge on what kind of people they are so would be confident that any opinion I had on a matter aligns with their morals and ethics. As much as J2 have shared of themselves with us - willingly and under no pressure to do so, I might add - we don't *know* them, but we know enough to have an informed opinion. I can’t say the same for Misha because based on the behaviour he’s repeatedly displayed, things I've heard about from other fans as well as people I know IRL who have had direct dealings with him through cons or GISH (including some very actively in the early days when it was GISHWHES) he just hasn’t seemed like a person I wanted to follow on SM. I’ve never watched any of his solo panels, though I have watched ones with both or one of the J's, mostly being left irritated because of his behaviour. Watching the J’s put up with that shit is painful, and it’s a testament to how good they are as actors that they managed to hide at least some of their disdain for as long as they did. Microexpressions give them away, particularly Jensen, and they certainly have faces I have spent many years watching closely. Beautiful faces to go with beautiful souls, both of them! <3

I have precisely ZERO interest in Destiel as a ship, very little interest in Cas as a character anymore (though I did like him in the early days,and his relationship with Jack in late seasons) so I have absolutely no reason or desire to follow anything Misha does. That said, I've obviously been peripherally aware of some things he's been involved in because of friends, from things I’ve seen on SM and general fandom stuff. Despite the things I've already mentioned about his behaviour, up until now I have been able to maintain a level of respect for him as a person because of the humanitarian and charity work he's done. He seems like someone who really does want to change the world for the better and I am in full support of that fact, so much so that I have supported TWO campaigns relating to him. I bought one of the Super Good t-shirts for the campaign he did with Michael Sheen (a true angel!), the SPN/Good Omens x-over to help homeless charities, and I chose the design with text only and not artwork of Michael and Misha on, basically because I didn’t want to be wearing something with Misha’s face on it and I make absolutely no apology for that, whatsoever. I also bought Alex's #TheEndHasNoEnd shirt, which some of the profits went to Random Acts who do great work, so again, despite not liking Misha I still willingly contributed for a cause bigger than me, and to support Alex, who I absolutely ADORE. I'm aware that Stands aren't popular with some of the fandom, however since most of the cast of SPN are happily affiliated with them then I don't feel it's my place to either judge, or to discuss topics I know next to nothing about. But I digress, as a decent human being I have shown support tangentially to a man who I don't care for out of respect for the work he does outside the fandom. Telling you this isn’t to paint myself in a good light - I don’t need your approval, I’m a big girl, unlike some I don’t need constant validation! - only to provide background on how I’ve actively *not* hated on Misha.

Now though, any respect I had for him has come to an abrupt end, the events of the past 24 hours has seen to that. Whilst I have been annoyed at his behaviour in regards to shipping, I don't feel it's ever gone this far, or at least not that I've seen first hand. This man has, IMO, contributed to so much toxicity in the fandom by way of things I've mentioned before, he's claimed - without actually saying the words - that Wincest fans weren't interested in him as a character when he came onto the show, and hasn’t felt included because of the fans’ love of the brothers. Um, hate to break it to you, love, but when you come onto an established show that is about two people, and you’re a *guest star* you can’t expect everyone to love you. Some characters we as individuals do fall in love with straight away (Bobby, Charlie, Crowley and Rowena are good examples for me), it takes time to establish a dynamic, so if that’s how he felt then it was incredibly naive of him as an actor to expect instant acceptance from anyone. Also, why wait until after the show finished to bring it up AGAIN … oh wait, yeah, that would be to step back into the limelight in a way intended to garner sympathy from Minions and INTENTIONALLY piss off bro fans and Wincest shippers alike? How fucking self centred, desperate and disrespectful do you have to be to shit all over the finale of a show that for the most part accepted you and kept you in paid work for 12 years? Well, Misha Collins levels of all of those things, obviously.  

So, on the topics of self centred, desperate to stay relevant, attention seeking and being oh so needy, the tweet yesterday from Amazon mentioned Castiel. He wasn’t tagged in it, so I refer to my earlier comment about searching online, because how else would he have possibly seen that? It’s possible someone sent it to him, I appreciate that, but if we go off past behaviour it’s not any stretch at all to believe that didn’t happen. So, once again, having seen the tweet he took it upon himself to - oh so predictably - turn it into something relating to Destiel. When I saw it I immediately rolled my eyes and thought ‘here we go again’, but then also had a little smile because I really liked the fact that he explicitly mentioned Wincest, therefore seeming to accept that his poor old dead horse wasn’t the only one in the race. I actually mentally tipped my hat to him then because it appeared that he’s matured enough to acknowledge by name the ship that predates his inclusion on the show. Great, I thought, this is a positive thing in a sea of negativity surrounding the man and his sunken ship, because what followed was Wincest trending in the US (it may also have been other countries as well but I had to sleep!) … largely due to the fact that Hellers were responding to it, calling him out on mentioning the dreaded ‘W’ word. I’ll repeat that because it’s been a rare occurrence up to that point… the Minions were actually disappointed with their overlord for mentioning another ship. We all know what they think of it and I for one, don’t give a flying fuck about their opionion. Ship and let ship, it’s all fun (or meant to be) so we have different tastes, that’s life kiddiwinks, deal with it. I mean, you really don’t have much of an example set for you when your king has proven several times over to be one of the biggest obnoxious brats out there, but just give it a try for your own sakes, yeah? Awesome, good on you, besties!

An unexpected development - to my joy and that of other Wincest shippers - them doing that got the topic trending, only *kept* trending by the fact that were all coming online asking why it was trending. Wincest shippers barely lifted a finger, we just flooded each other’s timelines with lovely content and basked in the Hellers - and Misha - shooting themselves in the foot, which was awesome. But did the vitriol stop? No. Did he get the attention he so clearly craves? Yes. Was it in the way he wanted? Fuck no, so poor, emotionally wounded baby backtracked after seeing that his name was trending alongside Wincest because that’s *so* not what someone narcissistic to do it in the first place, wanted.

Now here’s where I could easily have just moved on with an unusually fond chuckle, giving him an ironic pat on the back and a ‘thanks, Misha’ for being the one to instigate hours of fun, but once again his despicable behaviour made that impossible. It’s been more than obvious for many years that he cares more about what his fans think than anything else to do with the show and the fandom in a larger sense, but to delete the tweet and APOLOGISE for daring to be so insensitive to the snowflakes’ delicate sensibilities for mentioning Wincest in the first place was absolutely disgusting. Stating , “I used a term that I had never really given any thought to other than, "that's a thing?! Yuck." is not only complete and utter bullshit, it’s pandering of the highest order.  

We all know he has referred to Wincest on multiple occasions, so to say he hadn’t thought about is a flat out lie, which IMO is an insult to everyone, not just Wincest shippers. Does the man have no self respect at all, why would you contradict yourself in the face of such overwhelming evidence? Instead of either ignoring all the people calling him out, or addressing it with another tweet saying ‘yeah, that happened’ or something similar he chose, I repeat, CHOSE the route of claiming he didn’t realise he was being offensive to people who felt ‘triggered’ by him using the word Wincest. He basically shat all over an entire ship and large sector of the fandom in an attempt to appease his own fan base which consists of a lot of children (or those that act like children) who have no idea what RL is like.

Once again, he’s reinforced the idea that if you shout loud enough at someone just because you don’t like something they said, they will back down and apologise for something even when there’s nothing to apologise for. If he wants to be such a role model then he could easily have pointed out that a fictional ship doesn’t condone RL incest, any ACTUAL trauma people have suffered because of RL situations, and made an effort to make sure people understand that. He COULD have used it as an opportunity to do some good in the fandom by encouraging people to build bridges, to accept that people are entitled to their beliefs and that sometimes we see things differently but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t treat others with BASIC HUMAN DECENCY because of it. Instead he YET AGAIN chose to show that he cares more about what Minions think of him, keeping them onside to constantly stroke his unbelievably fragile ego in everything he does.

It is my understanding that Misha is big on (or claims to be big on) putting positive energy out into the world, treating people with respect, helping others and accepting people for who they are, not who you want them to be… all this after YEARS of consistently practising what he preaches only when it suits him. He sends out a message that it’s perfectly OK to bully, to spread hate, to draw attention to yourself at the cost of others, to throw colleagues and friends under the bus and at the same time use them to further your own agenda and get hits for your YouTube channel. Is this really the legacy he wants to leave? Is this an environment he wants his own kids to grow up in as well as future generations? Is this what he thinks is a valuable contribution as a human being? JFC, the arrogance, hypocrisy and the need for constant validation this man exhibits is nothing short of cringeworthy… actually it’s beyond that. It’s deplorable behaviour, it’s not new, and he will continue to act like this for as long as he’s being enabled and this harmful cycle needs to end.

I have friends IRL and online who are (now, possibly, were) big Misha fans, who have supported him from either the beginning of his run on the show, or since they started watching, and this is how he repays this behaviour? He’s willfully alienating decent people (including multishippers) all to make himself look good by being seen to do everything he can not to offend people. Spoiler alert, you DID offend people, you continue to do so time and again and we’ve had enough. I can’t imagine how exhausting it must be to be such a perpetual people pleaser, but let me say it’s not doing you any favours in any way, shape or form.

Misha, you are *not* a role model, you’re *not* someone to look up to when you can't live up to the ideals you preach. You’re spitting in the face of people who have supported you even after some questionable things in the past, who gave you the benefit of the doubt because we’re all human and we all make mistakes. The key to growing as a person is not to keep repeating the same mistakes over and over, understanding *why* what you said and/or did was a mistake and making a concerted effort to make changes. I don’t ever see you doing that, you will continue down this path of only caring about Minions under the guise of caring for people in general. You are transparent, you are sad and despite the fact I’ve never particularly liked you, I didn’t speak up because I didn’t want to get involved in the drama. Well now I have spoken up and I’m saying you’re a disgrace, you have no respect for other people and nobody is fooled anymore. If it hadn’t been this tweet it would have been something else, but I for one am glad it happened so soon after the show ended so we can finally be rid of the limpet-like behaviour. It’s over, let it go for the sake of what dignity you might have left, for the sake of your family and friends and for the sake of anyone who isn’t capable of seeing through your ‘it’s a joke’ mentality.

You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found wanting. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, Misha.

For anyone who made it to the end of my ramble, thank you. This has been a cathartic exercise and I’m drawing a line under it now, I don’t think I could possibly make my thoughts any clearer. I urge you not to get caught up in any petty squabbles with his Minions, let’s celebrate J2 and other cast and crew members who have shown us all respect and who I am proud to call part of the SPN family. There’s always one member of the family who needs to be frozen out for the good of everyone else.

[sidecarghost]

Kripke: Family (as a source of trauma)

Sam and Dean’s brotherhood and the dichotomy of loving your brother while also disagreeing with him on almost everything at a fundamental level.

Azazel fostering a group of special children to serve in his holy war, and John raising Sam and Dean as soldiers for his holy war.

Filial piety taken to the extreme where any agency is given up. Meg’s blind faith in Azazel and then Lucifer, and Michael’s blind faith in following through with God’s plan for the end.

John Winchester’s legacy of hate and revenge being passed down to his children, Sam and Dean.

Dean, Cas, and Micheal and the consequences of absentee fathers and their sons hopelessly trying to gain approval from them.

Found family that helps emotionally support each other with team free will Sam, Dean, Bobby, and Cas vs the toxicity of the family you are born to. Similar parallel to fate vs free will.

Gamble: Identity (roles we assume vs our authentic self)

Souls as the fundamental particle that establishes our internal compass, but also capable of being lost or weaponized.

Assuming a role at the cost of being authentic:

Dean and Lisa where Dean tries to be a better father to Ben than John was to him

Cas as God where Cas tries to be a better God than the father he never met

Sam as soulless where Sam tries to be a better hunter than John, Dean, or the Campbells ever had been

And Leviathan becoming better capitalists than humans (authentic chameleons that live their best life by assuming whatever form let’s them be the most effective predator)

Carver: Oppression (being a hero to some makes you a villain to everyone else & the only force strong enough to cure oppression is love or total annihilation of the oppressors)

Abuse of power at all levels: Hell, Heaven, Earth

Monsters are shown to be morally complex and an oppressed population

The MoL is a defunct organization of humans that oppressed monsters.

Sam and Dean as the inheritors of the MoL legacy of oppression. They are never redeemed and carry on killing monsters until the end of the series.

Cain saves his brother Abel from damnation, but the cost doomed millions. His only escape was conquering the mark because of the love of one woman.

Naomi overriding the free will of angels by reprogramming them to keep them kowtowed to her agenda for heaven. Cas is able to conquer Naomi’s reprogramming because of the love of one man.

Metatron ejects the angels of Heaven forcing them to live among the people heaven has oppressed in the name of God. The show frames Metatron as a hero and a villain because good and evil can be subjective.

Rowena as the narcissistic mother that sees Crowley as a failure because of her own failings, and attempts to emotionally manipulate and influence his role as king of hell. Eventually Rowena is redeemed by developing genuine love for her son and team free will.

Styne family as a dynasty of white supremacists trying to make a race of superior humans. Their reign of oppression ends with their annihilation by Dean.

Sam clings to faith and hope in a righteous God even though he has suffered his whole life. Sam’s relationship to faith is never resolved through the end of the series.

Light oppressing the Darkness. God’s only sister was kept entombed by her only brother. Love for each other was the only force strong enough to stop their suffering.

Dabb: Fuck if I know???? (Cw: racism, suicide ideation, rape, incest) Dabb era is the most racist era of a very racist show. Other eras were problematic, but at least they attempted to tell a story based on an interesting theme. I cannot, for the life of me, come up with a theme for Dabb that the season wide plots feed into (calling it plot is a misnomer because there really is none in s12-s15, that shit cannot be consumed serially).

Destiel is shamelessly queerbaited, because Dabb has found that the queer and queer ally portion of fandom responds favorably to these crumbs.

BMoL as oppressive but now also British, and a new bunch of white people are added to the cast, because in the Spn universe Britain is solely populated by white people.

Lucifer keeps appearing to antagonize the protagonists, even though his relevance as a legitimate antagonist ended 7+ seasons ago.

Lucifer rapes a woman by posing as her lover. This results in the birth of the Messiah and death of the woman. No one ever seeks justice for Kelly, instead they endlessly obsess over her fetus.

The actor cast as Jack, the Messiah, is yet another white person in a cast full of white people.

Alternate universes are found that are like the main universe but way more boring.

Crowley is killed because Dabb is out of ideas for the character.

Sam and Dean are only interested in finding a way back to the apocalypse universe because their mom got stuck there. They express no desire to find a way back to help the universe where humans are being exterminated. They have completely given up on altruism and are living it up as privileged white people in their bunker mansion.

Black archangel Michael is villainized and loses any of the moral complexity that white archangel Michael exhibits.

Kevin Tran (one of the few recurring PoC), reappears in the Apocalypse universe just to blow himself up as a suicide bomber.

Archangel Gabriel was being kept imprisoned by Colonel Sanders who moonlights as a prince of hell. Does any of this mini arc impact the overall narrative? No. Just more white men added to the story because Dabb can’t figure out where to take the franchise.

Mary Winchester is fridged, yet again, by another yellow eyed supernatural being, so a singular family member can go into a vindictive rage about it.

Canon bisexual God is villainized. I would say for plot reasons, but I have yet to discover anything in s15 resembling a plot.

Main universe Kevin Tran (who sacrificed everything to devote his short life to helping Sam and Dean) reveals that God sent him to Hell all those years ago. Kevin is then doomed to wander Earth as a ghost until he goes insane. At which point, white guy Sam is probably going to kill him sending him back to suffer for eternity in Hell.

Billie, a black woman, becomes Death, a primordial entity and a stronger force than God (will reap God in the end). She is villainized and killed by white men for being committed to keeping the universe in balance and adhering to the natural order. No one seeks justice for her.

W*ncest is shamelessly baited because Dabb has found the portion of fandom that prefers bros as soulmates responds favorably to these crumbs.

Romanticizing suicide in a meta attempt to inform viewers that this show has lived past its useful shelf life and keeping it alive is a punishment to be endured.

Spn Prequel: ??? Not to jinx the prequel but at least it should not be worse than Dabb era.

[eisforeidolon]

Favourite spn episodes ?

I know I made a list way back when of favorite episodes, but it's been a while, so I wanted to think on this a bit.

Not because I think I really have any in the Dabb years - even something like Lebanon, where I really genuinely liked all the stuff in the bunker with JDM, the episode as a whole was ruined for me by so much time absolutely wasted by the random doofus townie teens. Or even something like First Blood where I loved the competent badass Winchesters it gave us and don't recall anything within the episode itself I didn't like - but I can't divorce out the context of them being there in the first place for just gormlessly standing over the unconscious POTUS long enough to get arrested. But because of some of the context - like Castiel's embarrassing character devolution - changing how fondly I feel about episodes like Lazarus Rising, The End, Hunteri Heroici, and The Man Who Would Be King. At least without doing an actual rewatch to revisit them without mainly focusing on the after-baggage.

I generally always refer to the Pilot at the top of the list. I think it's a really solid introduction to the concept and characters, and any series I come to love I always have a deep fondness for the introduction where the magic of the introduction happened.

Overall my favorites tend to be the mainly self-contained MotW episodes that either have a cool twist, tell us something interesting about the characters, or change our viewing perspective. The tension and emotion of Dean wandering around as a ghost from In My Time of Dying, how smoothly the Winchesters work as a team even separated in police custody in The Usual Suspects, the twist that puts all of the Winchesters' slightly-off reactions into perspective in Roadkill, the utter weird of the monsters in Plucky Pennywhistle's and addressing Sam's clown-fear. I really love the cheesy fake ghost hunting reality show shtick of Ghostfacers, the Clue-like farce of Ask Jeeves, and the Impala-POV of Baby. I similarly actually really love Weekend at Bobby's even though Sam & Dean are barely in it. I like Gabriel less than I once did after his Dabb-era return, but Changing Channels remains a pretty hilarious concept executed very well. I really love locked room type episodes when they're done well enough to make you feel the characters' claustrophobia and increasing frustration with the situation - Jus in Bello and Nightshifter both tick that box perfectly.

I was also really fond of the way some of the Kripke era episodes were so good at juxtaposing opposite feelings in a way I don't feel they ever did as deftly in the later years - the absurdity of the monsters versus the kinda heartbreaking flashbacks in A Supernatural Christmas, the silliness of Yellow Fever and Mystery Spot that turns so dark, the heart-wrenching crack Dark Side of the Moon puts in the Winchesters' faith and relationship after exploring fairly light-hearted heaven memories. The Leviathans being organized enough to actually use law enforcement against Sam & Dean was a cool idea and the fake!Winchesters hilarious bitching contest over whose head it was worse to be in amused me in Slash Fiction.

I could go on, but those are the ones that jump fairly easily to mind.

[remythologise]

(Apologies for this ask being so disorganized) Not sure if this take is controversial but I really hate how Supernatural puts humans/humanity as being the ideal and never challenges it (and when you look at how there's a historical foundation to view monsters and non-humans through the lens of race, it's so problematic because they really are putting whiteness on a pedestal). They spent so much time saying Heaven and angels are wrong for making judgment on where humans go when they die despite not understanding humanity but are all like hunters are allowed to decide whether monsters/non-humans get to live or die despite not understanding them. And like I know the reason why they never challenge this is because they view Dean as the embodiment of what is means to be human and Dean can apparently never be wrong (even though he is flawed and there are times when he very much is in the wrong). I really do love Dean but as a WOC it's so hard sometimes to watch how Dean views those who are Othered and why it's so hard to not roll my eyes when they villianized Gordon. When you take the whole show into context, Gordon was basically like "if you are considered an Other, you are evil and must be exterminated, no exceptions" while Dean is like "if you're an Other, you are evil but if you're useful and help me, then I'll spare you"(and you can see this in how Dean treats Cas, Kevin, Jack, Benny, Kaia, etc). And the worst part is he never really gets called out for it (like in the beginning, it was very much just he (and Sam too) using Cas as a tool to solve their problems and not really treating him like a person and then instead of calling them out for this, they just extend this behaviour to other characters). Ideally, once the Winchesters started allying with the Supernatural, the show should have moved towards having more of a nuanced view on the Others but instead they were all like, the Supernatural are all evil except for the few that aren't and that's because they are "one of the good ones" but then again maybe I'm excepting too much from a show which has the tagline (catchphrase?) "Saving people, hunting things"-like they are basically telling us what they think about those who are Othered

I think you’ve nailed it exactly on the head anon. The attitude towards monsters is SO inconsistent, and it makes them seem really callous ESPECIALLY with how Cas and Jack are removed from the narrative at the end and proof of the whole ‘if you’re useful I’ll spare you (until you’re used)’. It’s shown time and time again that monsters can change, can be good, but the Winchesters so often blindly murder even when there isn’t PROOF their victims (yes, victims) are dangerous - off the top of my head in season 15, 15.10 The Heroes’ Journey where they slaughter all of the monsters in the warehouse when it’s VERY likely most of them are just there trying to get money to survive, and 15.14 Last Holiday where they just walk in on vampires (drinking from blood bags!!!) and start killing them... because they spotted them on a map. Uncomfortable Implications! There’s obviously a total lack of consistency on the writing team but this issue seems EVEN MORE CENTRAL to the show ethos than, say, Destiel or John Winchester Narrative... I do genuinely think it’s just the carelessness of privileged writers. Like, THE WITCHER does a good job of this! It’s not hard! They always imply that monsters can be good or bad, and PEOPLE are very often the real monsters. SPN is way more interesting when it’s grappling with the moral grey area of the Winchester’s choices (1.12 Faith!!). And the fact that Dean is always shown as In The Right (except, as someone else mentioned on a text post somewhere, when he’s fully ‘evil’ and killing genuinely awful human people due to Mark of Cain. Which, lol.) EVEN when he should be in the wrong! just makes the whole thing jarring. Sometimes really uncomfortable! Like I like shows to challenge my views but not when the message is ‘non-conforming individuals in American society should be eliminated’. Of course there are rare moments where Dean (or John) are called out by better writers but they are fairly few and far between, and the lack of resolution at the end of the show (most glaringly on how Dean treated Jack...) is just. Case closed, Jack and Cas were Things, and only humans were People. 

Also I find it interesting that Supernatural so rarely went with monsters as ‘metaphors’ if that makes sense. The best ‘monsters’ in the horror genre in my opinion are those which reflect societal issues (Get Out) or reveal internal fears of the characters (2.20 What Is And What Should Never Be). But I think the show really lost most of that idea as it went on. And when the Winchesters are killing a lot of generic vampires/ghosts/werewolves. And when we KNOW vampires/ghosts/werewolves that are good (Benny, Kevin, Garth for example), it’s even more jarring that those were the ‘things’ being hunted. I don’t know, I just think Supernatural wanted to be a horror show but was SO bad at it on both a technical level and a theoretical level because it was SO basic most of the time. And instead of shifting the genre, the tone, the message... it stuck stubbornly to the same messaging it had in the Bush era* of ‘us vs. them’ and refused to realise the kind of story it could (AND SHOULD) be telling. (*although honestly Kripke era was actually more careful and consistent on this issue!)

[hellerism]

Rank Supernatural's showrunners from least fav to most fav and explain why (include any spicy drama and takes).

ooooh hm ok.....gonna have to think about this one

4. miss sera homophobia gamble. this one is just a given; seasons 6 and 7 are widely known as the two worst seasons of supernatural. she is such a mystery to me, bc she tried to permakill cas, but she was the one who convinced kripke to introduce cas in the first place so like...she did that to herself. she’s also written some of my favorite episodes, including dead in the water, so. what goes on sera. my general opinion on her is that she’s a good writer for individual episodes but she should never be handed the reins for an entire show and also she needs someone to check her for the casual homophobia she always sprinkles in for flavor.

3. andrew dabb. i did enjoy parts of his seasons! i loooove dadstiel and their little family, and i think jack was one of the best things to happen to supernatural in a long time. the deconstruction of mary in season 12 makes me absolutely insane. however, his seasons are also...boring. his overarching plots like the british men of letters and aw michael were very underwhelming. season 12 was the first season i watched live and is also one of my least favorites. i also hate whatever vendetta he had against dean like. look how they massacred my boy. and his glorification of john is unacceptable. he deserves jail for lebanon, even if i do enjoy some of the other episodes he’s written.

now, for season 15, i LOVED the idea behind it. i loved the themes of free will, fans taking over the narrative, death of the author, etc. i thought chuck was a great villain, and i genuinely liked how most of it was executed. of course it all fell apart at the very end, and i wish we knew why. i want to know if this was always dabbs plan or if he was forced to change the ending, and if he was forced to change it, what was it originally supposed to be? i just want to know who to blame.

2. jeremy carver. now, his era is the one i remember the least of, but most of what i do remember is very good. season 8 was obviously one of the best seasons for deancas (it’s called season gr8 for a reason) and i do remember enjoying 11. couldn’t tell you a thing about 9 or 10. his biggest crimes were killing off both kevin and charlie (i mean even if he didn’t write those episodes he still let it happen), so i dislike him for that. again i don’t remember much else so i can’t really say more about his era.

other than that i generally enjoy carvers writing. ive noticed he’s written some of the more baity deancas episodes. like he was insane for free to be you and me. im not sure when he switched to actually supporting it but hey im glad he did.

1. and yes, unfortunately, that leaves kripke as my favorite spn showrunner. despite everything his era is my favorite. sure, a lot of the things that were cohesive about seasons 1-5 were by sheer luck and coincidence, but at least they were cohesive. the story and aesthetics were great, sam was an actual character with personality and motivations (early seasons bitchy bloodfreak sammy supremacy), and each season raised the stakes in an organic way so that the danger actually felt real. i like most of the episodes that he wrote. however just bc he’s (sigh) my favorite showrunner doesn’t mean i like him and i’d verbally abuse him if i ever saw him irl.

kripke era suffers from a lot of misogyny homophobia and racism (they all do). even though i enjoyed season 1 it was especially bad to indigenous people, and im sure it does not get better from there. i am not looking forward to the gordon storyline when i rewatch season 2. plus there’s the whole “supernatural is built on the white supremacist ideal that white suburbia needs to be defended from the Other” thing that kripke is responsible for bc he created the show but never bothered to interrogate (except for gordon but im sure i dont have to explain why that did not work at all). the writing for all the women was atrocious and obviously there’s all the homophobic jabs and jokes but whatever we already knew that i can just brush the misogyny and homophobia off. and honestly the casual homophobia is funny sometimes.

tldr: there are no good supernatural showrunners they all suck

[caswlw]

Supernatural does a little U quality wise I think, it's at its worst when it's trying to be Kripke era even though it isn't anymore but some time in S11 it really finds itself and goes "I am a stupid, silly little show and I'm going to have fun with that" and it just becomes soooo enjoyable for completely opposite reasons! I love all the eras for different things though and I think some people just couldn't cope with things not staying exactly the same for 15 years. Change is good its growth and sometimes it misses but overall it's good! I love the dad era so much and I hate that so many people won't even give it a go bc they see the lighting or they got mad over S9 (valid btw! I'm mad at that season too! But it doesn't define everything that comes afterwards)

right like. spn s12-15 are good and not for the same reasons that s1-5 are good !! i’d actually argue that the show changing so much over time lends itself to not falling into a monotony that would’ve made it difficult to enjoy. like people always crack jokes at the whole “how did we get from trying to find their dad to killing god” like dude they were trying to kill lucifer in s5 it’s a hop skip and a jump bitch and not Only that but knowing what the final episode is like everyone would’ve hated it if the show decided to do motw the entire time. or even if the show decided to never up the stakes after lucifer- as we all know how annoying it was to keep seeing him pop up until he FINALLY dies dies in the penultimate episode. we can poke holes in the show by saying stuff like “there’s always a bigger gun” to critique how bad it got but genuinely it’s good bc it does decide to change it up. the later seasons showing how they’ve aged and gotten better at what they do is a good thing !! and while that finale is shit it just goes to show even further that an ending like s1-5 would suck and how even the s5 ending is not an ending of a show that’s enjoyable to watch

[littlewetbeast]

IMHO season 15 is coherent up to (and including) episode 9, and then it just kind of goes off the rails. Though I am a slut for angst and therefore enjoyed divorce arc. It's also the only season of SPN I actually watched all episodes of, not because it was so good, just because I felt like I should. It was certainly an experience but I can't say I regret it haha.

see, thing is, even catching up after s8 i'm reminded that spn struggled with coherency throughout every single season since the kripke era. in my opinion they never truly recovered after he left as showrunner, based simply on the lack of a strong long-term plan. (i say this as someone who has genuinely enjoyed the carver era!) honestly, after bedlund left and they rolled back all the indications they were headed somewhere new - no homo-ing dean and cas, killing off kevin and charlie - i gave up on them ever delivering on that end. but what keeps me going are the occasional little gems and destiel, and if cas and dean are just miserable then....... that just kills any enjoyment i'd get out of it?

[dinahdlance]

i think what my nth spn whatever rewatch highlights is while i think kripke should be tried at the hague for his crimes against humanity re the bad shit of s1-5, but like as a narrative the kripke era is genuinely layered and cohesive as the domino set up falls and they have is just so fucking good? there are obvs ur bottle eps that don't impact the plot but the whole lead up of them trying to find john that then spirals to the entire psychic/demon sam plot to dean trying to save him to the audience and them being revealed like actually ur life is not ur own :) it has been orchestrated so heaven and hell get an excuse to live out their armaggedon dreams :) to it being a fight to the bitter end because sam and dean consistently fighting what's been destined/fate, simply because they care for each other so much and would rather die on their own terms than be puppets for anyone else is like wow that shit Does hit. like it does have a bit of a nihilistic tone but it's a hopeful nihilism because the choice made is one no one expects. it's still a sacrifice but it's one they have set for themselves

[castielcommunism]

hi nick. this may be a question you’ve received before but i just wanted to slide in and ask. so you created this blog for supernatural. you talk at length about the characterizations of the main three (mostly dean and cas) and expand further on topics and discourse. but what do you think about the show? like if you had to give it a rating out of ten what would it be? taking into consideration plot, entertainment, re-watchability, etc. not necessarily all the nuance you’ve put into it, just the basics

i don’t know if I can give it a flat x/10 rating honestly lol. i guess I would recommend the first five seasons of the show to people for sure because I think those are generally the most coherent and fun seasons to watch/re-watch, and I think the best part of the show is the first five seasons generally speaking. It’s also where a lot of the more pernicious and reactionary elements of the show are at their most prominent (though the show doesn’t get rid of its racism/ableism/misogyny after that by any means), so like that recommendation would come with some caveats. As far as entertaining cable television shows go it’s pretty good and I really enjoyed it.

But like all fifteen seasons I would not recommend to people, especially anything past s12. I enjoy the show quite a lot but tend to focus my rewatches on s1-5 and then pick enjoyable one-off episodes from later seasons (and there are a lot of those! They’re just much more spread out). Which isn’t an original opinion by any means, but if I wanted to watch A Good Episode of Supernatural I tend to watch kripke era, and if I wanted to convince someone spn was a show worth watching I would also pick kripke era episodes to show them.

Like the funny thing is is that like, I find a lot of the mid and later seasons stuff the most interesting conceptually, and for that reason I began to engage with the fandom, but the execution of those concepts is generally poor or leaves a lot to be desired. If I wanted to just be a casual fan of spn I would stop at s5 (or 6) because imo that’s when it stops being consistently good and entertaining. But if I wanted to bake my brain online talking about it I would watch past that. So I guess I would ask people if they want to have a fun time watching a mid-2000s cable show or if they want to drive themselves insane thinking about it when giving out recommendations, because my answer would be different.

But I do genuinely like the show! Politics and discourse and everything else aside (to the degree that you can set those things aside), I think it’s a worthwhile piece of art and I understand why it holds the enduring cultural presence that it does. If spn was never made, something similar almost definitely would have been created in its place.

[koryuoftheriverflow]

I’m gonna compile a list of all the things in the episode that follow the narrative thread of the season (or seasons 7-15) or make no sense whatsoever that, imho, allow us to imagine (to know) that *this* was not supposed to happen. Yes, I’m wearing my clown wig and make up. If I have to believe that this finale was written by someone like say, Sera Gamble (Sam is the best, Dean is destined to live in his shadow and Cas is not in the picture), following Kripke’s initial plan, and imposed by the network onto Dabb and the other writers (whose *real* finale was 15.18 - and 15.19 which, bucklemmings’ usual problems aside, was really not that bad), just so that I can sleep tonight... Then so be it! - Montage from 15.19 with no actual meaningful moments from the past 15 seasons but a shitton of dream/fake episodes ??? - Single pillow - Mourning beer on the nightstand - Single lamp - Pizza box on the unoccupied side of the bed - Miracle - Sam’s jog in a place that reminds me a lot of his commercial in Changing Channels ??? - Dabb’s pies - That was Robert Singer on the background, laughing at Sam throwing a pie in Dean’s face, right? - The painting with the beach - Tongues ripped out so victims can’t speak - Hearts - That damn barn - Cas/Dean/Alastair vs Dean/Sam/chick - I had a hard time remembering that girl because why the hell is she even here? Why is Dead men’s blood so important right now? Pls explain ??? - The fact that it took me a while to understand that it was Dean the one impaled and not the vampire, because when they closed up on the metal thingy earlier I totally thought it was going to end up as it usually does in these cases ??? - You’re stronger than me ??? - It was supposed to end like this for me ??? (Hello free will?????) - It’s always being you and me (Hello family dont end in blood and it doesnt start there either???) - Hearts again - Agent Bon Jovi (No rest for the wicked) ??? - At least I made it to Heaven (this sounded so much like Dean just gave up because there was no one left and at least in, what he believed to be the old version of, Heaven he could relive good memories) - Ash’s monkey - It’s the Heaven you deserve (deserve - deserve - deserve) - El Sol - Cas helped (Dean’s smile, bless you Jensen) - KAZ2y5  - You got everything you could ever want, or need, or dream (the one thing I want - I need you - he sounds... dreamy) - The Roadhouse - The road (hello 8.07) - Sam’s son named Dean like this is the Epilogue only worse - And no Eileen - The bridge and Hey, Sammy and Stanford clothes (ok, we get it) - The farewell at the end - Jensen’s fucking face I cant ashjhshdjkahdk he’s dead inside - Cast and crew all together with no masks despite covid so where the hell are Cas and Eileen ??? - And cut!  Like, at least the fact that they broke the 4th wall lets me believe that this was the ending of the in-story show Supernatural and not the ending of *the story* and its characters.  Because this is a bros only ending and it was *not* what they’ve been building towards for months and years. And I couldn’t wrap my head around the fact that Jensen had to call lots of people and Eric bloody Kripke to have the ending explained to him, because from where I was watching the story unfold, it was the perfect arc for Dean (and Jensen knows Dean better than anyone). And that’s why I’m convinced this one is a pre-established ending. And Bobo and Dabb and all the rest in the writers room wrote 15.18 to be our ending, because they couldn’t write this one.  And yes, of course, no more sacrifice between the brothers is very good. But Dean dead? Sam with the white picket fence life?  This ending is so... ancient. It belongs to an era of Spn that is long gone. I honestly believe that the actors (maybe not Jared ‘cause he’s still under contract with the CW) and the writers will speak up about this. Some more than others, maybe. But I want the truth to come out. I want to know if they had to compromise to give us, albeit one-sided, canon Destiel. If they took us as far as they could, because they weren’t allowed to bring us to the right end.  And they tried to warn us: Misha and Cas’s sacrifice, Bobo and the unexpected, Dabb and his 30% and GoT finale. I thought he was trolling, but no... he was just warning us that, yeah, we were not gonna like it. How could we? But I want him to speak up, because he’s the one who’s gonna take the blame for this. I watched him write for this show for 12 years and I know he can do way better than this.  Jack as the soul bomb in 11.23, stopped, like Amara stopped, because of love.  The Empty being loud. The need to speak one’s truth. Free Will winning over the Author. Chuck’s ending with bros only and no Castiel being shit. We are real (from both Destiel and Saileen). The family they have built along the way. None of this was in the episode, but they have been writing with those themes in mind for years. So, no. I don’t understand. Call me delusional. Chuck knows I’ve been called that before, but on *that one thing* we were right. We were so fucking right. I genuinely think the writers are going to speak up, because their careers are at stake. Because *this* isn’t the way to end a story. And Misha, and Jensen. Jensen, I beg you to say something. Because this I understand now, why they were talking about 15.18 as if that episode was the finale. And why they didn’t say goodbye to Castiel, because no... his story isn’t over. So many other - well, I don’t want to say plot points, but certainly emotional points - were left unadressed, abandoned.  We still need answers.  If I can’t get them in text, I demand to have them from, yeah, word of God.  The thing that I’m mourning now is the possibily (and Spn has a history of missed chances, but we love it in spite of that) of going down in history as the tv show that did something game changing.  Still, I’m grateful for all the people, near and far, that have come into my life because of it. Family indeed don’t end with blood. @mittensmorgul @postmodernmulticoloredcloak @bluestar86 @drsilverfish @bakasara @rambleoncas @k-vichan @shirtlesssammy @lets-steal-an-archive I hope you don’t mind my tagging you lovely people (and there are many more), but I’ve followed you for so long, and I’ve read all your metas for years. They’ve kept me company for a decade. It’s been a wild ride and I just want to say, while asking for your opinion on the show one last time, THANK YOU. Supernatural was good, but it was especially lovely thanks to you all <3

[bluishorange]

listen, there are so many things I love about spn, and it’s been my hyperfixation for like eight months now. don’t get it twisted.

but Kripke is and always has been a man composed entirely of toxic bullshit. if you’ll permit me to use that terrible Walker coin metaphor, the other side of the “bygone era of overt masculinity and grit” coin is. guess what. misogyny. homophobia.

this is what Kripke wanted for Dean too, isn’t it? the grit, the old-school cowboy swagger? and how did that work out?

this is a post I think about all the time, especially this part:

Kripke literally wrote the line what’s dead should stay dead and didn’t realize this western action hero is dead. in trying to resurrect him anyway, the one character who was everything – lovable fucker, always fuckable – he compressed the perfect hero so tight that he vanished into thin air. and in place of him, dean, just dean: juggling his accoutrements, dropping them inevitably, the last great failed straight american male but a genuine instance of reality occurring where it did not have a place, demanding to be felt.

we’ve talked about this before, yeah? that Dean’s character, in the hands of a different actor, might have stayed a bit closer to Kripke’s original intent. but Jensen took this toxic caricature and infused him with a vulnerability, a humanity that wasn’t on the page, at least not in the first season.

this is Kripke:

this, Jensen:

like, watch that scene. that’s not the comic book guy written in the pilot, the blood-spattered archetype with the cigarettes. played differently, maybe it would have been. but it isn’t! it’s a man who acts tough to cover up his sadness, his loneliness, his fear of abandonment.

with a different actor, with different writers than the ones who came on later in the series, Dean Winchester, and by extension spn, might’ve been the epic tribute to old school one-dimensional bro-itude Kripke always dreamed of.

instead Dean had layers, depth and meaning, and I’m so, so glad for it.

anyway, I haven’t seen The Boys and I’m not going to. I don’t think I could handle it. but best of luck to Kripke and his male power fantasy, I hope it works out for him. good thing he didn’t cast the same actor this time!

wait, what?

Jensen Ackles suits up as Soldier Boy (x)