#kirk ormand

[a-gnosis]

I've been reading The Hesiodic Catalogue of Women and Archaic Greece by Kirk Ormand. The Catalogue of Women is a poem attributed to Hesiod that survive only in fragments and deals with women who gave birth to heroes. All the heroic genealogies culminate in the story of the marriage of Helen, which leads to the end of the Age of Heroes. Here's one little thing that I found interesting:

Ormand says that throughout most of the Catalogue, there are a limited number of formulas that are used to indicate that a man wishes to marry a particularly desirable woman. "He made her his blooming bride", "[he led her] to his house to be called his beloved bride". In all of these instances, the man is the active subject, and the woman is both the grammatical object and the object of masculine desire. When it comes to the suitors of Helen, however, a new formula appears: "For greatly he wished in his heart to be the husband of fair-haired Helen".

"The obvious implications of this shift in the way that the suitors' desires are portrayed is that the suitors have become less active as subjects. Rather than wishing to make Helen his wife, each suitor wishes to become her husband, a subtle indication that in the marriage, Helen might be the more important partner." Ormand draws a parallell to the Iliad where Paris is described six times as "Alexandros, husband of fair-haired Helen", and then points out that:

"The only other male figure from the Iliad who is repeatedly identified as the husband of his famous wife is, interestingly, Zeus, several times with the formula ἐρίγδουπος πόσις Ἥρης ("high-thundering husband of Hera"). Zeus is described as Hera's husband, and Hera receives Helen's epithet of fair-haired: at Iliad 10.5, he is πόσις Ἥρης ἠϋκόμοιο ("Husband of lovely-haired Hera")."

Ormand agrees with Clader who argues: "The parallell is striking, particularly when one considers the relative importance of the πόσις and his lady; Helen is certainly the stronger figure in her context, and grammatically Zeus, too, loses out to Hera (after all, he is being identified by means of her). The expression would seem to be rooted in a period when Hera was still the earth goddess and Zeus was her consort, or was taking the place of her consort."

[finelythreadedsky]

JSTOR wrapped: top ten JSTOR articles read in 2024

Bakola, Emmanuela. 2014. “Interiority, the ‘Deep Earth’ and the Spatial Symbolism of Darius’ Apparition in the Persians of Aeschylus.” Cambridge Classical Journal 60: 1–36.

Griffith, Robert Drew. 1988. “Disrobing in the Oresteia.” Classical Quarterly 38 (2): 552–54.

Johnston, Brian. 1993. “The Metamorphoses of Theseus in Oedipus at Colonus.” Comparative Drama 27 (3): 271–85.

Marshall, C. W. 2003. “Casting the Oresteia.” The Classical Journal 98 (3): 257–74.

Mueller, Melissa. 2011. “The Politics of Gesture in Sophocles’ Antigone.” Classical Quarterly 61 (2): 412–25.

Ormand, Kirk. 1996. “Silent by Convention? Sophocles’ Tekmessa.” American Journal of Philology 117 (1): 37–64.

Skouroumouni Stavrinou, Aspasia. 2014. “Inside and Out: The Dynamics of Domestic Space in Euripides’ Andromache.” Hermes 142 (4): 385–403.

Starkey, Jennifer. 2018. “The Origin and Purpose of the Three-Actor Rule.” Transactions of the American Philological Association 148 (2): 269–97.

Stehle, Eva. 2002. “The Body and Its Representations in Aristophanes’ Thesmophoriazousai: Where Does the Costume End?” American Journal of Philology 123 (3): 369–406.

Worman, Nancy. 2001. “The Herkos Achaion Transformed: Character Type and Spatial Meaning in the Ajax.” Classical Philology 96 (3): 228–52.

[thoodleoo]

Ok idk if this will make you feel any better, but I took ancient sexuality with Kirk Ormand (best advisor and person in all the land) and on basically the first day of class he told us Hubbard was his nemesis. (We were using a source book he’d helped to translate but this was a few years before the shitstorm at UT Austin)

oh kirk ormand is AWESOME! we asked him to give a talk at our undergrad conference one year and it was so so good. there are plenty of amazing professors out there researching sexuality in the ancient world, i just hate that some of the bigger names turned out to be. yknow. Freaks

[activatedsludge]

32, 68, 134!

32. your favourite nonfiction novel

i dont read all that much nonfiction, but! controlling desires (sexuality and gender in ancient rome) by kirk ormand OR water 4.0 by david sedlak. also orientalism by edward said.

68. your favourite piece of classic literature

its very hard to decide between dostoyevskys but probably crime and punishment, although demons and brothers karamazov are very close seconds!!!

134. unreccomend any book you like!

the lathe of heaven (ursula k le guin) is my beloved forever but if you're snobby about aliens you may not like it xoxo

[embeanwrites]

can you do an artemis x reader based off of either crush culture by conan gray or scary live by the neighbourhood? sorry if you don’t do song-based fics, i wasn’t sure. thanks anyway!

A/N: I haven’t written a songfic in so long, so I hope I still have that magic! I use to exclusively write them! I hadn’t heard of either of these songs, so I listened to both and went with Scary Love! Also decided to put them both in college bc I’m a sucker for two nerds meeting at a party (Also I’m a simp for cuddles and kisses 

Masterlist

Move to the city with me

Don't wanna be alone

Don't wanna be alone

You're too pretty for me

Baby, I know, it's true, yeah

It was rare Artemis went out with friends, it was even rarer that he followed them to a party. But here he was at some frat house on a Friday. He had ditched his friends five Fridays in a row and he was starting to feel bad about saying no every time. He told himself he just needed to go to one party and then he could say no without feeling guilty. 

He was holding a red solo cup full of a mix between fruit punch and vodka. It was honestly terrible, but by holding it fewer people walked up and asked him if he wanted a drink. He wanted to leave, but he felt bad ditching his friends when they were absolutely wasted. 

The pop music was beginning to give him a headache so he headed outside. He was surprised that the police hadn’t been called to tell them to turn it down. Not technically leaving the party, but he went far enough away that maybe he could just take a break from this mess. Hopefully, his friends would be ready to leave soon. He wasn’t looking forward to babysitting the three of them. 

You look better when you first wake up

Than anybody else I've fucked

Baby, I got good luck with you

I didn't know we'd get so far

And it's only the start

Baby, you got me worried 

Outside a few stragglers were sitting in the grass. Including a couple of people making out. Artemis began walking around the house to find a quiet place to sit.

“Artemis?” He turned towards the voice and saw a girl he recognized from his political sociology class. They were the only two people who regularly talked and answered the professor’s questions. She was highly intelligent and was a decent debater. 

“(Y/n).” He smiled and walked towards her. He sat down next to her. She was sitting in the grass with a book. When he sat down she put her bookmark in and held her book to her chest. 

“I didn’t expect to see you here.” She looked over at him with a small smile. 

“I didn’t expect to spend my Friday here.” He smiled back at her. Maybe it was the vodka in his system or maybe he was just really happy to be around her. 

Your love is scaring me

No one has ever cared for me

As much as you do, ooh

Yeah, I need you here

Your love is scaring me

No one has ever cared for me

As much as you do, ooh

Yeah, I need you here

“Do you make it a point to come to parties and sit outside to read?” He teased. She laughed and looked at her book.

“No, I have an essay due tomorrow night and I’ve been putting it off.” She sighed. “My friends forced me to come. They’ve asked me every Friday and I’ve finally run out of excuses they’ll buy.” Artemis felt his face heat up. She was smart and socially awkward like him. 

“What’s your essay about?” He gently took the book from her. ‘Controlling Desires’ by Kirk Ormand. He smirked and flipped through the book. 

“It’s supposed to be about comparing translations to direct sources. However, this dude found new fragments and he credited them to Sappho, but it really seems that he made them up. I asked the professor if I could write about that instead. She said yes, but now I’m regretting it.” Artemis watched her nervously pulling and fidgeting with grass. He noted how nervous she seemed. “I know, I’m a huge dork. I just like sociology and classics.” 

“You’re not a dork for enjoying school.” He nudged his shoulder against hers and she smiled at him. “If I wasn’t here I would probably be reading.”

“What would you be reading?” She asked, watching him flip through her book. 

“Well, seeing this book makes me want to re-read Ovid’s Metamorphoses.” She turned towards Artemis and her whole face lit up, she had a nervous smile. 

Ridin' through the city with me

Just watching you glow

I'm in the passenger sea

You're in control

It's on you now, mhm

“This might be a little forward, but do you want to come back to my dorm?” He watched her fiddle with more pieces of grass. He was surprised by how forward she was, but he would be lying if he said he wasn’t impressed by her. She had guts.

“My friends, they're wasted and I really need to make sure they get home safe.” He watched her face fall, causing him to wince. “I would really like to, it’s just-”

“It’s okay, really I shouldn’t have asked-”

“(Y/n)! Are you ready?” Artemis looked over to see two girls looking over at the two of them curiously. Before he could say anything else she gently took her book back, gave him a small wave, and left with her friends. 

That was the first girl that’s expressed interest in him since coming to college. He pulled his knees to his chest and hugged his legs. He’d be lying if he said he wasn’t interested in her. She is smart, passionate, and cute. He liked the way her eyes lit up when she started talking about something she liked and how she never backed down in class, no matter how many people were against her. He was afraid she wouldn’t like him back, but she just asked him out and he said no. 

“I’m an idiot.” He muttered into his legs. 

You look better every day, I swear

Really, it's a little unfair

Baby, I'm star-struck by you

Didn't know we'd get so far

And it's only the start

Baby, you got me worried (ay)

Artemis managed to wrangle his friends and get them back to their respected dorms before he was standing outside her residence hall. He felt weird knowing where she lived, but she complained about it one time to him in class. It had no AC and the hot water only worked half the time. He had no idea what his next move would be, he didn’t have her phone number and he didn’t even know where her room was. 

“Hey?” He turned around and there she was for the second time. She was still clutching her book from earlier. “What are you doing here?”

“I got my friends home and I thought I’d come by if your offer still stands of course. I understand if you want me to leave.” He sheepishly rubbed the back of his neck and looked at his feet, failing to notice her small smile. “Why aren’t you inside?”

“I walked to my friends' home, they live a couple halls away.” She looked at him nervously. “Do you want to come up to my room? My roommate went home for the weekend. I have a really cool Greece and Rome translation book you may like.” 

“That sounds like fun.” She walked over to Artemis and gently grabbed his hand, leading him inside the building. 

Your love is scaring me

No one has ever cared for me

As much as you do, ooh

Yeah, I need you here

Your love is scaring me

No one has ever cared for me

As much as you do, ooh

Yeah, I need you here

Her room was nice and orderly except for her desk. She had at least twenty books stacked on the desk, papers filled with notes, and old quizzes. He looked over and saw the last paper they had gotten back from political sociology. 

“You got a 99 out of 100?” He asked, he knew she was good at the class, but he hadn’t realized that she was probably the top student in the class. Even with his paper, he got a 95, but he credited most of that to the fact he didn’t grow up around American politics as she had. He looked over at her, her face was flushed red and she looked embarrassed. 

“Yeah, I put that paper through the wringer. I got a 98 on the first one. My goal is to get a 100 on the last one, but I may have bitten off more than I can chew with my topic. What are you writing about?” 

“Political Polarization found in non-fiction books unrelated to politics. What about you?” She smiled widely.

“Conspiracy theories and political polarization. Lord knows how many crazy videos I’ve had to watch for the paper.” They both laughed. “So, I’m a pretty straightforward person, so hopefully this doesn’t freak you out, but I really like you. I think you’re smart and funny and I would be so mad at myself if I didn’t tell you that before the end of the semester.”

 If we fall apart

Maybe it wasn't meant to be

If we fall apart

Then it was our favorite dream

Ooh, ooh, yeah

“I like you too.” He whispered he could barely believe this was happening. But she was standing in front of him with an unreal smile. He couldn’t help but smile back. “This may be the vodka talking, but do you want to make-” She gave him no chance to finish as she pressed her lips against his. 

Without breaking away they both made it towards her bed, well he assumed it was her bed because she led him to it. Breaking away she jumped up on the twin-sized bed and shyly smiled at him. 

“Lowkey, I have liked you since the beginning of the semester. Do you want to make out and cuddle? It’s kind of late to walk back. Don’t you live across campus? You’ve also been drinking so it’s unsafe anyway to walk back alone and if I walk you back then you’d have to walk me back and it would just be an endless cycle.” She talked so fast Artemis thought he was experiencing whiplash. He smiled and jumped up on the bed next to her. 

“Cuddles and making out sounds like a great plan.” He didn’t think it was possible, but her smile grew as she wrapped her arms around his neck. He placed one hand on her cheek and the other on her waist as they resumed kissing. 

Your love is therapy

No drug can give me clarity

As much as you do, ooh 

Yeah, I need you here 

Your love is scaring me 

No one has ever cared for me 

As much as you do, ooh 

Artemis woke up the next morning with a minor headache. He tried to move but realized something was on top of him, one of his arms, in particular, felt as if it was on pin and needles. He must have been in this position for a while for his arm to fall asleep. He looked down and saw (y/n).  

She had her head resting on his chest and one of her arms laying on his stomach. His arm that was asleep was pinned underneath her and his other arm was resting next to hers on his stomach. She looked so peaceful. Careful not to wake her, he brushed some of her hair out of her face and behind her ear. She hummed in contentment but didn’t seem to be awake just yet. Artemis could barely believe that all this happened in one night. 

Maybe going to parties with his friends wasn't always a waste of time. 

Yeah, I need you here

Ooh, I need you, babe

Yeah, yeah, I need you, baby

Yeah

I need you

[aimee-maroux]

Hello! I was wondering if you have any resources like books or websites were we can learn about Greek and Roman culture and myth and stuff like that? I’m super interested but am no longer in a school that offers courses on these topics :( thanks!!

Hi anon,

my go to website is theoi.comThey have information on all the gods with citations from the original texts as well as a collection of texts. Whenever I start researching something, I start there and combine with wikipedia.org.

I am sadly ill-equipped to offer something like a 101 because I am looking at the aspect of sex and love in ancient Greece specifically. I could recommend some books about this topic but I understand you are looking for an introduction to the myths and cultures in general?

Introductions to Greek mythology:

Classical Mythology by Elizabeth Vandiver (available as an audio book or eCourse). Her outlook on the gods is a bit bleak at times but I enjoy her course!

The Mythology of the Greeks by Károly Kerényi

Greek history and culture:

Ancient Greece Declassified podcast

Roman history and culture:

The Partial Historians podcast

Sex and Love in ancient Greece

Sex and Sexuality in Classical Athens by James Robson

Controlling Desires: Sexuality in Ancient Greece and Rome by Kirk Ormand

Sex in the Ancient World From A to Z by John Younger

I also know some awesome people who I think can help:

@amor-augusti

@sisterofiris

@theancientgeekoroman

@thegrapeandthefig

@thelastbacchae

@thoodleoo

Edit: I removed The History of Ancient Greece podcast from the recommendations because not only did the host plagiarise long passages from his source material without credit, he also harrassed many of his female guests, young historians new in the field, not established ones like the Partial Historians. I regret recommending him and I'm glad one of the harrassed women spoke up!

[terpsikeraunos]

We know neither the speaker nor the context of this passage...

Classics proverb (found in A Companion to Sophocles by Kirk Ormand)

[a-gnosis]

New books! :)

Aegean Art and Architecture by Donald Preziosi and Louise A. Hitchcock

The Hesiodic Catalogue of Women and Archaic Greece by Kirk Ormand

Egyptian Art by Bill Manley

Viking Art by James Graham-Campbell

If Not, Winter: Fragments of Sappho translated by Anne Carson

[thoodleoo]

@sigaloenta thanks!! (also i met kirk ormand a couple of months ago and you’re right, he’s a really fun dude)