#just block the chat's rants or chat's discourse stuff or tmnt discourse tag or something

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

Why do I read CBR Articles, they almost Always just end up kind of pissing me off:

Like this article:

https://www.cbr.com/rise-of-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-movie-leonardo-character-change-works/

Just annoyed me so much man.

Like, Leo in so many versions has major doubts about himself and his leadership and will think he is a failure, and also just in general has many character flaws, as well as strengths too.  

Like, Leo is a perfectionist in most versions (including in Rise), but he is far, far from perfect.  He tries to be perfect, he tries to not show his vulnerabilities, but that is because he is insecure about himself and scared of failure and scared of failing the people he cares about and losing them, and also because while Leo is/can be (very) smart (including in Rise for sure), he is not always the best at emotional expression and he tends to hide a lot of stuff.

Also, Leos and self-worth, self-doubting, and self-hating issues go hand in hand; not just Rise Leo, but basically most Leos.

Also, “stoic, perfect” leader.  Yeah sure, Leo, the major dork, the huge fanboy/fan, who loves jokes, puns, space, space heroes (or Jupiter Jim in the case of Rise Leo), swords, martial arts, figures/figurines, stuffed animals, is a LARPer and/or role-player, (probably) likes DnD and/or has been the DM basically, gets excited about stuff/very excitable, will argue and/or talk about what show/comic/superhero/thing he loves is best and/or why something is worst/not as good, petty/can be petty, childish, pouty, show-off/a (utter) show-off, a showboat, is competitive/super competitive, can get very pouty about losing, can be a sore winner, can be a sore loser, will try to do anything to win at games/video games/whatever thing he is being competitive about, likes games/to play/has done games as training, trains hard, is such a child (at times), is such a teen, can hold a (major) grudge, rage/hatred/can have a very deep and/or slow-burning and/or cold and/or etc. rage/hatred/etc. basically, knows guitar, (I think) he likes rock and/or all types of different kinds of music, (this is more a head canon, and I am trying to avoid those, but I totally head canon a lot of Leos are also good at singing), some versions are quite decent/good artists, this is more of head-canon, but I “head canon” him to be a good writer and/or loves to write fanfic (I know I say I am trying to avoid head canons in this post a couple times, and for the most part, I am!, just let me have a couple) can be quite the good/a pretty good dancer, has fun partying (at times), him and Raph and/or Donnie and/or Mikey or depending on the version have silly handshakes and codes and all that, him and whoever is his “twin” that version doing twin stuff, him doing “stupid” stuff with/for his family and friends, has (silly) codes/code words/gestures/hand gestures, can get really into things.  

Likes to mess around and do (sometimes messed up and/or weird and/or stupid and/or etc.) stuff just out of boredom/for fun/for shits and giggles/, because he thought it was funny, tea, bladed objects, martial arts, fighting and/or violence and/or patrolling and/or life and death battles and/or etc. because he is bored/for fun/because he is used to it, so without it he gets kind of antsy, paranoid (but just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean you are wrong and/or they aren’t out to get you), Japanese culture (and/or other cultures too), gossips/gossiper/loves gossip/loves to gossip, loves people who can go toe to toe with him in fight and/or beat his ass, does impressions of people (both out of love and to make fun of and/or mock people), is a jokester, who mocks people, will do and say really silly stuff and is just overall (very) silly, loves cute stuff, is funny, (, very unique, very interesting, and/or very different to me/imo) who gets flirty sometimes/can be flirty, who puts on makeup and goth/emo/punk outfits.  

Loves gardening and plants and the night air, loves nature, can be a major city boy, has a lot of self-control/restraint, sometimes is other people’s self-control, sometimes is the only brain cell/one of the only brain cells/share of the brain cell(s) of the group, mature, immature, responsible, irresponsible, savior and/or martyr and/or hero complex, wants to be a hero (and/or a criminal), thinks powers and superheroes and/or whatnot/etc. are SUPER cool, spiritual, mystical, magic/loves magic, is sly, cunning, and clever, ethical and moral (but also sometimes, not really--it can depend), interesting morality/ethics/etc., observant, intuitive/strong intuition (him and Mikey are the intuitive and/or intuition bros!), skilled/highly skilled/talented, (but also,) very hard-working and trains extra/super, super hard, the world and/or universe(s) and/or etc. is important, but at the end of the day Family and Friends basically is always above all/comes first, honorable, though can and will trick and play dirty, emotional, unemotional, repressed, emotionally repressed (and/or constipated) calm, level-headed, patient, but not even his patience his infinite, so even he can get get/be impatient, & also so when he does actually blow up and/or lose his temper and/or snaps, God can be cold and/or scary and/or etc., scary/frightening/etc., tense (?  Not sure how to describe this one), (ever-) evolving/changing/grows a lot/develops a lot/always more room to grow/can and will reach great heights but there is (probably) almost more room to grow (I know some of these are less traits or whatever, and more statements, but just bare with me with these/those, okay), and intense.  

Can (very much) think he is useless, thinks he is nothing and his brothers/family/friends are everything/better than him/just thinks very lowly of himself in general, thinks he is nothing without his brothers, thinks he is nothing without Splinter, thinks he is nothing without his friends and/or family, thinks he is nothing without other people, always thinks he needs to do something, so much of the time he places others before himself; even at the cost of himself/even at the risk/danger of himself, wants to be useful, seeks love and affirmation and approval, a very external character in a lot of ways, but also a very internal character in a lot of other ways, introverted, more extroverted, something in-between or both in some way(s), secretive, sneaky, stealthy, a good/great liar, a bad/terrible liar, expressive, unexpressive, closed-off/guarded, pranks/is hard to prank/curious and/or is impressed by people’s pranking/people actually being able to prank him (he does get mad and annoyed too, but who wouldn’t), resistant, resilient, trauma/traumatized/tends to get traumatized, curious, playful and/or mischievous, earnest, eager, quotes his favorite things and people, probably write fanfics honestly, has a crush on Captain Ryan (and would probably kin that man), has legit mental issues honestly (I hope this didn’t sound harsh or anything like that; didn’t mean for it to be.  It is something I find to be very interesting, relatable, and realistic about his character(s)), basically all versions of him are insane and/or crazy and/or feral (including Rise), doesn’t always have the best role models (probably needs some better ones and/or more ones), needs help; needs help in so many ways.  

Cautious and careful, reckless, one-man army, solo player/can go solo, team player, rebel/rebellious, “goody-two shoes”/goody-two shoes (or is it “goodie” or is it goody two-shoes?  Or something like that.  Hm?), just genuinely so much angst and/or angst potential (as well as comfort and fluff potential.  But the angst (potential) man, the angst (potential)), “mom” and/or ��parent” friend and/or just mom and/or parent and/or dad kind of in general, leader, sensei and/or the/a boss, ninja, ninja master, ninja in training and/or still with a lot to learn (always) (even if they don’t think so), brother, good brother, never gives up--tries; just tries so much (though sometimes he just wants to give up.  But God, he can be so stubborn and determined (and never give up about stuff) too ofc), headstrong, bold, confrontational, peacemaker/mediator, tired; just wants a break, doesn’t want a break/know the meaning of a break/is just so used to always (needing to) do/doing stuff, so he feels like he must always be doing something, does stuff till he collapses and/or his body gives out, self-care (but not most of the time, not really, really, the guy needs to learn better self-care and to love himself), disciplined, strict (sometimes), bossy, sarcastic, sassy, snarky, self-blaming, guilt-ridden, grief-ridden, criminal tendencies and crime (be gay and/or bi and/or etc. and do crime is the Leo way), can be very violent and murderous/murder (-y/-happy), but also very caring, loving and protective, self-sacrificing, self-destructive, sometimes even suicidal, has (had) hallucinations and stuff.

Can be a control freak/controlling for various reasons, will die and kill for the people he loves, is very relatable in a lot of ways, has had to deal with his own anger issues sometimes, smug, cocky--can be very, very cocky to the point of (seeming) arrogance, can be and/or seem self-righteous (and/or righteous), can be and/or seem hypocritical, can and does make mistakes, tries to make up for mistakes, thinks they might never be able to make up for a/their mistake, beats up themselves up over any mistake (no matter how small or big, or even if wasn’t their fault)/beats themselves up a lot in general, very hard on themselves, can have high standards for others at times (for various reasons; both good, some not as good, some in-between and/or both), but even higher for themselves, can sometimes be quite naïve, optimistic, innocent, and starry-eyed, can also be also be quite jaded, cynical, hardened, and disillusioned (depends where they are development wise and/or the version ofc).  

Nice, mean, and everything in-between, tough, brutal, kind, gentle, compassionate, cringe (-y) and embarrassing /affectionate, cool, badass, determined, stubborn/stubborn as all hell!, the “Leonardo Hamato Instinct” since the 80′s; a term coined by @misteria247 that I just love and it is very true, prideful, internalizes and bottles emotions up like there is no tomorrow!, coping mechanism galore!, some bad, or better, and everything in-between (like Rise Leo’s humor and pretending he is okay and fine and that there is nothing wrong and all that; Leos in general go hand in hand with coping mechanisms), pretending he is okay and fine and that there is nothing wrong (I know that I said this with Rise Leo already, but it bears repeating; this is such a Leo thing, humor, dark humor & dry humor, dad jokes, corny, corny jokes, cheesy, cheesy jokes, ironic/ironic humor, can be stoic and/or serious, but there is just so much more to him than that, blunt, light-hearted, lively, tired, confident; sure of himself, not confident (insecure, like I already said), doubtful/doubting of himself and/or others, self-deprecating, self-deprecating “humor”, “therapy, what is (a) therapy?  You think I need therapy.  Nah, I am fine, I don’t need therapy; nope, not at all” Leo.  

Wants to believe in the good people and give people chances, but sometimes is disappointed (and sometimes awarded for it) and/or even grows disillusioned with people, things, humanity, etc., has issues TM, total mother hen, can seem selfish/can be selfish, but really he is just/can just be selfless to the point of not giving a shit about himself at all, his loyal to a fault (for better and worse), can be under a lot stress/can get very stressed, has anxiety, probably some versions have PTSD and OCD and/or etc. as well, fearless (ofc he is, that is literally a nickname of his), but can also be quite very fearful/afraid, catchphrases/has catchphrases, rehearses lines, catchphrases, quotes, and stuff, is dramatic and/or a drama queen, likes fashion and fun outfits and stuff, manipulative, has eldest daughter syndrome, is both very rational, smart/intelligent, and logical at times; a great strategist; a planner--the/a plan guy, but can also be a big ol’ dummy, a true dumbass, stupid, a moron, etc. /affectionate, not always a team player (I know mention this somewhere else already, but I got a bit more into detail here kinda); can go solo for various different reasons (and this is something he needs to learn), and I mean various.  

Has a huge burden on him and sometimes has just wanted to give up/quite/wanted a break, actually wants and craves freedom/to be free/to have less responsibilities, probably both loves being the leader and hates it, has identify issues/problems, has/had to be a/the parent a lot, resolute, can be cruel, cold, calculating, bloody, bloodlust (-y), will do what his enemies do, will go against what he believes to be good to protect the people he cares about, (I have more to say, but I don’t know how to word some of it, so I am not), etc., etc.; I could go on and talk about Leo forever, he is that deep and layered and just has so much depth.

(I also know some of these traits are kind of repeated and/or similar to other ones, but they are still, mostly different in some ways, and some things are explained differently and/or more in-depth/detailed, and/or etc.  Most of these are very different from each other though).

Seriously, one of the most characterized, multi-sided/faceted, complex, human, interesting (just has so much range to him) characters in the TMNT franchise (including Rise, but previous versions too), is just the “perfect, stoic” leader; how laughable.

(The stuff I listed above about Leo; most of them applies to most and/or all(-ish) Leos, including Rise; some are more version specific.  Also, some traits can be core traits, some traits are there or not there pre or post development and/or etc. Basically some traits and stuff depends on the timeline and where they are in their arc(s) development).

Might add some more stuff to this later, but I am not sure.  This is already a lot/has gotten to be VERY long (though, like I said, I can talk FOREVER about Leo/Leos, hahaha), and some of the stuff I want to add I think gets more into/too head-canon-y territory (though, some are (more) canon and/or canon/real to me), or I might not really feel exactly comfortable posting; at least not in this post, because I don’t know if this is the right context for that/some of that, and I am not really sure how I to word it/ if I can word it right/correctly right now/for now.  Anyways, might add more to this later, might not.

This is getting long, so more/the rest will  be under the “read more” cut.

Also, saying Raph and Mikey are usually the ones to get the more interesting character arcs; which, I am not saying they don’t get good, and interesting characters arcs themselves, they do, but like, Leo gets some fricken great and interesting arcs too (heck, sometimes even tragic and/or dark(er) arcs/ones).  Like, he is not one of the most complex characters in the franchise (imo) for nothing.  He has had/has plenty of room to grow and has grown lots in so many versions.

Plus, Donnie is a very interesting and complex character too himself; with quite interesting arcs too.

Also, acting like the other Leos didn’t have their own doubts as leader and people and didn’t have to grow into their own as people and leaders is just ridiculous; did they even see/watch/read any of the other versions, like really?

Also, just severely boiling down Leo and Raph’s dynamic in other versions and why they butt head a lot sometimes.

Like, for example, Leo and Raph arguments about leadership isn’t even over who can be the better leader, or at least, it is not JUST that.

And a lot of their arguments stem from them wanting the same thing.  Them both wanting to protect and/or do the right thing, but just having different approaches.

And etc.

And then there is the stuff about Rise Raph, and how they act like previous versions of Raph (or Leo, who like Rise Raph was also the oldest and the leader himself)

Like, they are trying to boil down and water down other versions and act like they don’t get mad out of protective reasons or because they need help and for someone to share the burden (Leo and Raph defin. get mad for protective reasons) with them; even if they won’t admit that or not and/or it takes awhile/a bit for them realize it is okay to share the burden and/or for it takes a bit for them to realize the other person has a huge burden placed on them, and/or etc.).

The also hella water and boil down Rise Leo’s character so much; both in that article and others.  Like, some of the stuff they said about Rise Leo is as insulting and/or untrue as the stuff they said about previous and/or other versions and it’s characters (mainly Leo and Raph for this article I am mainly talking about here).

Uggghhh, it just makes my brain hurt.  Like, so much.

I fricken love Rise Leo a lot (he is my favorite), but I also love Leo in general (Leo is just a favorite of mine in general), and not just Rise Leo.  And while he is certainly a unique take in a lot of aspects, he is still very much a Leo; it is just certain traits of Leo’s are either shown or less shown with Leo and he starts off a with a different role and age position in the family, and finally has more of that freedom that Leo had always wanted.  Rise Leo, still is a Leo at his core though, and God do I love Rise Leo (and Leo in general).

Rise Leo is still a Leo and I love him.

(Seriously, people sometimes seem to really misremember and/or misunderstand Leo’s character and/or don’t look under the surface enough.  This includes both Rise Leo and other Leos).

Rise is able to be great and new and interesting, because previous versions were as well, and helped pave the way.

So many TMNT versions and versions of characters are great.

And love it/them.

Seriously though, CBR (and sometimes Screenrant and/or other sites like those two) annoy me so much sometimes, but I should have expected this, it is CBR after all; they don’t always really have the best takes.

Okay, rant over, lol.

Man, this got into more full-blown character analysis in some way and TMNT and/or TMNT retrospective in some ways, huh?

I guess I am just very passionate about all of this.

(Once again, like I have already said earlier in this post - though in this case I am talking about the whole post genially, instead of just the part(s) before the “Read More” cut - I might add more to this later, but for now, I think this is good/fine enough/enough.).

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

Ummmm, so u already know some of my Mikey takes that I talk about in some of my posts/reblogs, including urs.  Including one I just reblogged, w/ this post:

, and I do plan to go even more in-depth on this, as well as having this kind of stuff more in place, later, that might be considered a “hot take”, considered this is about Mikey after all and/or etc. (or I guess it is more like/about how he is treated honestly to be more exact).

But since I have already kind of “given” that “hot take”.  Let’s try to give some more.

Originally, me and a lot of others thought Raph, Leo, and Splinter were some of the most changed from previous versions, but now me (and others too (probably), actually think Leo and Raph are actually some of the most similar to previous versions, while still having a kind of a new dynamic and/or role (for a bit) change.  Basically, blending old(er) and new/different stuff well w/ them.  So I personally think Leo and Raph probably did some of the best at keeping the core of their characters (even with the a bit of a role/dynamic change); while also doing something new and interesting w/ them.

People might think Donnie or Mikey are more similar to previous versions, and while there are defin. similarities, I don’t think it as much as Raph and Leo.

At their core, I do think all 4 of them are you know, them, but I actually think Leo and Raph does really, really well, at keeping the core of their characters and/or having traits of previous/other versions, while Rise was also trying to do different twists and stuff.

Saying all this, older TMNT fans (like me) were (and maybe still are) put off by their changes, and I can understand that.  But I hope that someday they (will) see the supposedly “most changed” might have not been so.  Heck, I could argue at their core and/or etc., Donnie and Mikey are more different (despite people thinking all Mikey’s are basically the same, and while they can (maybe) be quite similar, they really aren’t exactly the same).  Not saying they are SUPER, SUPER different though, but yeah.

Then there is Splinter, who, while defin. different in a lot of aspects.  Still has a very rich (and quite sad and tragic) history like a lot of Splinters do, still is an awesome fighter/ninja/ninja master.  Like (most) Splinters, he is a flaws and complex person and/or parent.  And/or is overall good person and/or parent, but isn’t perfect and/or has to try to be/get better.  He can be quite (some purposely so) vague, funny, and troll-y like other Splinters; esp. 2012 Splinter.  And etc.  Don’t get me wrong, 2012 Splinter has peak character design, he looks so,  SO good.  But Rise Splinter is also still good too.  So maybe older TMNT fans can also give a chance (again) someday too.

(I say all this, but other versions, besides Rise, should be treated well and given a chance too by probably newer TMNT fans.  This stuff should go both ways, and not just one).

I have seen a tag basically saying this, but I am going to say it too/something similar, because I agree with wholeheartedly.

The A Team and/or Leo and Raph gets some of the most unfair and bad treatment and takes in the TMNT fandom(s), and it kind of legit makes me sad and sick to see two of the best and most complex TMNT characters and one of the best relationships in TMNT be treated so horribly sometimes.  And to be so misunderstood.

To kind of continue on from my previous point.  The TMNT fandom(s) from my person experience being in fandom(s) can be one of the worst at treating characters well.  Like, the bashing, misunderstanding, mistreatment, and/or etc. can be so bad when it comes to it’s characters and it’s sad.  That, or some characters get such extreme, disproportionate, (imo) and (sometimes) unfair favoritism that can also be bad, for some of the reasons I have already got into elsewhere (like when talking about Mikey.  Or the Donnie favoritism I have been seeing, esp. with Rise, but other Donnies too.  Though not really much or at all really, when it comes to IDW or 2012 Donnie.  They get the opposite treatment, of being mocked, ignored, underappreciated, flanderized, and/or etc.  With IDW Donnie, it is at least somewhat because he is from a comic and not a show or movie, but yeah).

Rise Donnie is a great character and so is just Donnie in general, but like I said the extreme favoritism he/Rise Donnie gets with other Donnies, other versions, or even other characters from his own series is TOO MUCH sometimes.  Other characters are awesome, and badass, and well-written too, and deserve (even more) love too.

Once again, Rise Donnie is great, but, and I know sometimes it is just a joke, but still, I have seen fans portray him to be disgusted by some things of previous versions or lecture previous versions (of himself and/or etc.) where I am like “Donnie, honey, I love you, but you really don’t have much room to be lecturing people in most things”.  I don’t mind characters having some hypocritical-ness and/or supposed “hypocritical-ness”; heck it is a very human trait, and I think it can a character more interesting, complex, and human.  But like, with some of the things Donnie has done and/or tried to do, I don’t think he has much right to lecture to other Donnies (or honestly (some) other versions of his family and/or other characters, besides himself) or for him to get portrayed as “better” than them.  When all Donnies have their flaws and strengths as people. I love Rise Donnie, and I find moral greyness interesting, and I am not saying he doesn't have the right(s) to lecture of scold at all, but at the same time, putting him on a moral high ground compared to other versions of himself and/or etc., is usually not really well-done, fair, and/or makes sense.

Rise Leo can has shown to be responsible and/or even one of the more responsible people (like up there with Raph.  Who isn’t always responsible and mature btw.  He can be impulsive and immature too, and the others have to rein him and/or check him.  Like Leo.  Or Donnie.  He can be brash and wild himself; like other Raphs), and can and has shown a lot of foresight, and is a very good planner and strategist.  And people focus too much on when he can irresponsible and impulsive (which he can be, he has different sides to himself/his character and is sometimes paradoxically, but in a very well-written way.  Plus, he is a literal teenager).

Rise Leo is very, very smart, and not dumb.  Again; I know people already know this.  But I have seen him written as actually dumb too many times.  Like, he can be silly, and “dumb” in a “dumb teenager” sense, but he isn’t actually dumb.

People who say Leo has/had no personality before Rise Leo, are wrong and also just don’t get his character at all.  Like, that he does have personality.  But also that, he tends to have to/sometimes has to suppress his emotions and parts of his character personality, because of his role(s).  He still very much has a complex and interesting personality and mentality and/or etc. though.  Seriously though, just because Leo can be more introverted and “subdued”, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a personality.  It is great to see people seem to think that about more “introverted” and “subdued” people.  And when I mean great, I mean not at all.  And besides all that, he just does have a personality in general.  He is one of the most complex characters in TMNT OMG.  It genuinely feels like people just ignore stuff with Leo (including Rise Leo; I have seen some pretty takes with him too. Even Rise Leo, which is Rise and people can sometimes in be very biased towards and/or etc., has some awful (imo) takes about him. My boi just can't seem to win) sometimes and/or misunderstand him and/or don’t even try to understand him.

Characters like Leo or even Donnie (others too sometimes though, but still, yeah) are great and amazing characters, but sometimes they are characters that are more appreciated and love when people are older.  As people can understand, relate too, and analyze them better.

Like, I have seen this happen with these two characters for example.

And w/ characters like Squidward from Spongebob as another example.

Ofc, there are the fans, like me w/ Leo, who have been basically a fan of these characters since they were kids, and remain so and/or even more so.

And then there other types of fans too as well.

But still, my main point, is that sometimes characters get more love by people once they are older instead of by the kids and/or whatever.  Which is both sad/suck-y, but also kind of cool and nice.

I saw some other TMNT fans (some being major 2012 ones, to preface this, both for clarity reasons, and to be transparent about this) say this (or like, more like something, that is kind of inspiring what I am saying here and/or is similar), and I kind of agree with it.

That is, while all the Rise family love each other very much, just like the other versions, I do think Rise Leo sometimes doesn't get treated very well or fairly by the rest of his family and/or some of the rest of his family. Some Rise fans will say the TMNT crew is/are bad and toxic to each other (when they really aren't, and also just ignore a lot of what they are going through constantly and their situations and circumstances), but some of them will that the Rise crew themselves aren't always perfect/the greatest with how they treat each other.

Not saying they are abusive or bad here; they aren't really, and they also love each other a lot. I won't be like some Rise fans, (which, I am also a Rise fan myself too, but I have also been a fan of TMNT before Rise was a thing, and I am fans of other versions too), that call other versions, esp. 2012, abusive. Which for basically all versions, isn't true.

With an example of them not being perfect either, what I already said, with how I don't always think Rise Leo gets treated the best (not saying they are terrible) by (some of) the others, and they don't really trust him that much at all (again; there are moments, but, I wish there were more. Though, I know some of that probably really isn't Rise's fault considering they were shortened and not given more seasons (so far. What I a person can keep on hoping for more Rise, okay).

With some more examples being: How much Rise Raph babies the others (except Leo, for some reason. Who he seems more strict?, with, I don't think that is the right word. It probably isn't. I just can't think of (another) one right now. He doesn't baby Leo though. The only time you really get Raph kind of babying Leo at all is after they save him from the Prison Dimension. And it honestly makes sense for him to do so there/after that), esp. Rise Mikey. Or some of the stuff Rise Donnie has done and said to the others. Or Leo letting his insecurities and/or ego (again, not sure if that is the exact right word) get the better of him at times. Or Mikey's kind of pushiness (I have seen some call it as his positivity being/becoming toxic positivity and/or extreme positivity at some points) with stuff? Like the stuff with Draxum (who I do like as a character, but I can understand why Splinter, Leo, and/or etc. doesn't and/or didn't really want anything to do w/ him). Again, this might be partially because of Rise's being shortened and (so far) not getting more seasons, but yeah.

So yeah, I don't like how some people and/or Rise fans treat other versions dynamics/relationships, esp. TMNT 2012 as really toxic and bad (when it isn't), while ignoring things that aren't perfect with the relationships and/or dynamics of their favorite, like Rise. It is an insult and unfair to all versions involved. Because version/a version is getting unfairly demonized and put down basically, while another one, they are stripping away some of the complexities of their own favorite versions' relationships/dynamics, and also just putting them on a pedestal (which I get doing, but still, yeah). I don't think TMNT 2012, or any other version is perfect or "better" than Rise btw (I won't be pushing anyone or any version under the bus here. Or at least; I am really trying not to). I think basically all versions have great and amazing dynamics/relationships, and love each other. Though, however, none of them are perfect either, and that is okay. That is people and relationships for you. They aren't going to be perfect, and can even be quite messy.

So I think people should keep this more in mind. And try not to be SO biased with stuff. Some bias is/can be okay, and pretty human honestly, but still, I think people should rein in their biases a little more, and/or at least try to be respectful, accurate, and/or fair.

I really hope the new TMNT Mutant Mayhem version (both the movie and show) and other versions/future versions (be it cartoon, comics, movies, etc.), do still keep taking things from other versions, including Rise. I say including Rise, because while it is cool TMNT MM is going back to to some of TMNT roots in some ways, compared to Rise, I worry that even though Rise is very well-loved now, that Rise's reception in the beginning might make it so that some of the new things introduced (like (some) different dynamics, new characters, who would like to see more versions of. I like the Yokai and mutants and Hidden City stuff, though other versions have done some similar stuff) stuff like/something like mystics/mystic powers/Ninpo/powers/etc. (which, there was similar stuff in previous versions, but I really like how Rise did it, and I would like to see something similar or something and explored (even) more. I would also like to more exploration on them as weapons/being created as weapons), the things that were always there (like character traits/core character traits), but got explored more and/or in different and/or new ways, some characterization/characterization, and/or etc.

Basically, while I do think TMNT MM seems to taking from some other versions; including maybe Rise; I am worried TMNT MM and/or other versions, won't take (while having their own things/spins/etc.) from Rise (like TMNT tends to do, which I really love), because of this. I know other TMNT versions, esp. in the beginning, don't always get the best reception either, but idk, at least the previous versions still goy more seasons and stuff (so far), which I am still sad about.

And because Rise was both a mixture of being similar to other versions, but also quite different (not saying other versions weren't different and/or didn't do anything different though), which was part of the reason for Rise's not the best reception at the beginning (which seems to be somewhat of a cycle with the TMNT fandom honestly; hope it gets better in the future. Though, as an older TMNT fan, and someone who was also kind of unsure about TMNT Rise at first, due to this kind of and/or something similar. Which, I have talked about this before; in other reblogs and/or posts, so I won't do so more again. I do understand why that reception happened. That, and the general TMNT (fandom(s)/version(s)) cycle that sometimes seems to happen).

Which is part of the reason(s) why I am worried about what I said I was worried about. So yeah, am hoping other/current other/future versions of TMNT keep taking from versions, including Rise, and the core(s) of it, while also trying new/different stuff and/or i(trying to) improve/improving on stuff. And/or just take all the good stuff/from all the good stuff, lol. Honestly, this one (this particular "hot take", that is) is more of a mixture of "hot take" (I guess??), a hope/hope, analyzing, rambling, and/or etc.

Raph and Donnie is kind of an "overrated" duo. I don't usually like to call things "overrated" and what not, or/& try not be contrarian to popular things and/or call things overrated and all that, because I don't want to seem like a hater or like that thing or series or character or movie or whatever/etc., don't deserve the love popularity, because a lot of the time they do; to some extent (at least). The reason why I call the Raph and Donnie overrated, is that it seems to be kind of, if not sometimes, really disproportionate and I am always seeing it win in polls against other duos, including duos that I think are just as good, if not better. Like, Raph and Leo, Raph and Mikey, Leo and Mikey, Donnie and Leo, Raph and Casey, etc. And just I don't really think that is fair.

Other duos (these ones are just some examples) are just as great (if not sometimes, even more so, imo), complex, interesting, and etc. imo. I think this duo's popularity might be partially because of Donnie bias lately (doesn't affect all iterations, but there has been more of a bias towards him lately; that like with Mikey, and despite my love for both Mikey and Donnie; I am not completely particularly fond of it. I don't think the treatment Donnie gets in this regard, is as bad as the treatment Mikey gets overall though; which might be a hot in of itself, because Mikey gets this treatment for more versions in my experience) and because people like the idea of a "Brains and Brawns" duo" or a "Murder Duo" or etc., even if, other characters (or just among the main 4 turtles) besides those two can also show those things. Heck, Leo in most versions is probably one of the more/most analytical of the 4 and is smart (but also dumb /affectionate) too. And Mikey can also be very good in a fight/combat/at fighting. As just a couple of examples.

I know it is mainly just a duo name, and I am not saying "Brains and Brawns" Duo doesn't fit in most regards, and that they aren't a cool and fun duo; they are. And it is not like I don't get the appeal of why people like the idea of and/or like a "Brains and Brawns" duo.

But at the same time, I do like this duo wins way too much and is sometimes seemingly way too popular in comparison to (some) other duos. And I don't really completely get it tbh, and I don't really think it is fair. I still like/love the duo, but damn.

(welp, I guess this further goes to show, why polls can suck a lot of the time, and aren't really the most fair and/or accurate. At least to me they aren't).

Will add more later maybe, but for now, I will leave it here.

Edit: Did actually end up adding more, and added and deleted some tags as well. Might, still add more, and/or do another reblog or post or something, with more. But for now; you have/got this. This is why I am posting this reblog a bit later than I was going to originally. End of Edit.

Honestly, some of these probably aren’t even hot takes, esp. by more of mainly TMNT 2012 fandom with some of these takes, but I tried.  I am not usually one to do “hot takes” really.  Unless you count the/some of the posts where I decide to talk, rant, ramble, etc. about stuff.

So anywaysss...; you asked for some hot takes/"hot takes", and so I decided to get really into this, and long about it, hahaha. I hope I delivered well enough on my "hot takes"/hot takes here.

Once again asking if you have any more “hot takes” or if anyone else does.

Let’s try to keep things nice here though, if we can.  If possible.  I certainly tried, and I hope that came across.

Alright-

Give me some of your biggest TMNT hot takes I wanna hear 'em.

[misteria247]

Yes. To all of this.

Why do I read CBR Articles, they almost Always just end up kind of pissing me off:

Like this article:

https://www.cbr.com/rise-of-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-movie-leonardo-character-change-works/

Just annoyed me so much man.

Like, Leo in so many versions has major doubts about himself and his leadership and will think he is a failure, and also just in general has many character flaws, as well as strengths too.  

Like, Leo is a perfectionist in most versions (including in Rise), but he is far, far from perfect.  He tries to be perfect, he tries to not show his vulnerabilities, but that is because he is insecure about himself and scared of failure and scared of failing the people he cares about and losing them, and also because while Leo is/can be (very) smart (including in Rise for sure), he is not always the best at emotional expression and he tends to hide a lot of stuff.

Also, Leos and self-worth, self-doubting, and self-hating issues go hand in hand; not just Rise Leo, but basically most Leos.

Also, “stoic, perfect” leader.  Yeah sure, Leo, the major dork, the huge fanboy/fan, who loves jokes, puns, space, space heroes (or Jupiter Jim in the case of Rise Leo), swords, martial arts, figures/figurines, stuffed animals, is a LARPer and/or role-player, (probably) likes DnD and/or has been the DM basically, gets excited about stuff/very excitable, will argue and/or talk about what show/comic/superhero/thing he loves is best and/or why something is worst/not as good, petty/can be petty, pouty, is competitive/super competitive, can get very pouty about losing, can be a sore winner, can be a sore loser, will try to do anything to win at games/video games/whatever thing he is being competitive about, likes games/to play/has done games as training, trains hard, is such a child (at times), is such a teen, knows guitar, (I think) he likes rock and/or all types of different kinds of music, (this is more a head canon, and I am trying to avoid those, but I totally head canon a lot of Leos are also good at singing), some versions are quite decent/good artists, this is more of head-canon, but I “head canon” him to be a good writer and/or loves to write fanfic (I know I say I am trying to avoid head canons in this post a couple times, and for the most part, I am!, just let me have a couple) can be quite the good/a pretty good dancer, has fun partying (at times), him and Raph and/or Donnie and/or Mikey or depending on the version have silly handshakes and codes and all that, him and whoever is his “twin” that version doing twin stuff, him doing “stupid” stuff with/for his family and friends, has (silly) codes/code words/gestures/hand gestures, can get really into things.  

Likes to mess around and do (sometimes messed up and/or weird and/or stupid and/or etc.) stuff just out of boredom/for fun/for shits and giggles/, because he thought it was funny, tea, bladed objects, martial arts, fighting and/or violence and/or patrolling and/or life and death battles and/or etc. because he is bored/for fun/because he is used to it, so without it he gets kind of antsy, paranoid (but just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean you are wrong and/or they aren’t out to get you), Japanese culture, loves people who can go toe to toe with him in fight and/or beat his ass, does impressions of people (both out of love and to make fun of and/or mock people), is a jokester, who mocks people, will do and say really silly stuff and is just overall (very) silly, loves cute stuff, is funny, (, very unique, very interesting, and/or very different to me/imo) who gets flirty sometimes/can be flirty, who puts on makeup and goth outfits.  

Loves gardening and plants and the night air, loves nature, can be a major city boy, has a lot of self-control/restraint, sometimes is other people’s self-control, sometimes is the only brain cell/one of the only brain cells of the group, mature, immature, responsible, irresponsible, savior and/or martyr and/or hero complex, wants to be a hero (and/or a criminal), thinks powers and superheroes and/or whatnot/etc. are SUPER cool, spiritual, mystical, magic/loves magic, is sly, cunning, and clever, ethical and moral (but also sometimes, not really–it can depend), interesting morality/ethics/etc., observant, intuitive/strong intuition (him and Mikey are the intuitive and/or intuition bros!), skilled/highly skilled/talented, (but also,) very hard-working and trains extra/super, super hard, the world and/or universe(s) and/or etc. is important, but at the end of the day Family and Friends basically is always above all/comes first, honorable, though can and will trick and play dirty, calm, patient, but not even his patience his infinite so when he does actually blow up and/or lose his temper and/or snaps, God can be cold and/or scary and/or etc., scary/frightening/etc., tense (?  Not sure how to describe this one), (ever-) evolving/grows a lot/develops a lot/always more room to grow/can and will reach great heights but there is (probably) almost more room to grow (I know some of these are less traits or whatever, and more statements, but just bare with me with these/those, okay) and intense.  

Can think he is useless, thinks he is nothing and is brothers/family/friends are everything/better than him/just thinks very lowly of himself in general, thinks he is nothing without his brothers, thinks he is nothing without Splinter, thinks he is nothing without his friends and/or family, thinks he is nothing without other people, always thinks he needs to do something, so much of the time he places others before himself; even at the cost of himself/even at the risk/danger of himself, wants to be useful, seeks love and affirmation and approval, a very external character in a lot of ways, but also a very internal character in a lot of other ways, introverted, more extroverted, something in-between or both in some way(s), resistant, resilient, quotes his favorite things and people, probably write fanfics honestly, has a crush on Captain Ryan (and would probably kin that man), has legit mental issues honestly (I hope this didn’t sound harsh or anything like that; didn’t mean for it to be.  It is something I find to be very interesting, relatable, and realistic about his character(s)), basically all versions of him are insane and/or crazy and/or feral (including Rise), doesn’t always have the best role models (probably needs some better ones and/or more ones), needs help; needs help in so many ways.  

Cautious and careful, reckless, one-man army, solo player, team player, rebel/rebellious, “goody-two shoes”/goody-two shoes (or is it “goodie” or is it goody two-shoes?  Or something like that.  Hm?), just genuinely so much angst and/or angst potential (as well as comfort and fluff potential.  But the angst (potential) man, the angst (potential)), “mom” and/or “parent” friend and/or just mom and/or parent and/or dad kind of in general, leader, sensei and/or the/a boss, ninja, ninja master, ninja in training and/or still with a lot to learn (always) (even if they don’t think so), brother, good brother, never gives up–tries; just tries so much (though sometimes he just wants to give up.  But God, he can be so stubborn and determined (and never give up about stuff) too ofc), disciplined, strict sometimes, bossy, sarcastic, sassy, criminal tendencies and crime (be gay and/or bi and/or etc. and do crime is the Leo way), can be very violent and murderous/murder (-y/-happy), but also very caring, loving and protective, self-sacrificing, self-destructive, sometimes even suicidal, has (had) hallucinations and stuff.

Can be a control freak/controlling for various reasons, will die and kill for the people he loves, is very relatable in a lot of ways, has had to deal with his own anger issues sometimes, cocky–can be very, very cocky to the point of (seeming) arrogance, can be and/or seem self-righteous, can be and/or seem hypocritical, can and does make mistakes, tries to make up for mistakes, thinks they might never be able to make up for a/their mistake, beats up themselves up over any mistake (no matter how small or big, or even if wasn’t their fault)/beats themselves up a lot in general, very hard on themselves, can have high standards for others at times (for various reasons; both good, some not as good, some in-between and/or both), but even higher for themselves, can sometimes be quite naïve, optimistic, and starry-eyed, can also be also be quite jaded, cynical, hardened, and disillusioned (depends where they are development wise and/or the version ofc).  

Nice, mean, and everything in-between, tough, brutal, kind, gentle, cringe (-y) and embarrassing /affectionate, cool, badass, determined, stubborn/stubborn as all hell!, the “Leonardo Hamato Instinct” since the 80′s; a term coined by @misteria247 that I just love and it is very true, prideful, internalizes and bottles emotions up like there is no tomorrow!, coping mechanism galore!, some bad, or better, and everything in-between (like Rise Leo’s humor and pretending he is okay and fine and that there is nothing wrong and all that; Leos in general go hand in hand with coping mechanisms), pretending he is okay and fine and that there is nothing wrong (I know that I said this with Rise Leo already, but it bears repeating; this is such a Leo thing, humor, dark humor & dry humor (to me/(more) imo.  But it be true though; it be true), dad jokes, serious, blunt, light-hearted, lively, tired, confident; sure of himself, not confident (insecure, like I already said), doubtful/doubting of himself and/or others, self-deprecating, self-deprecating “humor”, “therapy, what is (a) therapy?  You think I need therapy.  Nah, I am fine, I don’t need therapy; nope, not at all” Leo.  

Wants to believe in the good people and give people chances, but sometimes is disappointed (and sometimes awarded for it) and/or even grows disillusioned with people, things, humanity, etc., has issues TM, total mother hen, can seem selfish/can be selfish, but really he is just/can just be selfless to the point of not giving a shit about himself at all, his loyal to a fault (for better and worse), can be under a lot stress/can get very stressed, has anxiety, probably some versions have PTSD and OCD and/or etc. as well, can very fearful/afraid, rehearses lines and stuff, is dramatic and/or a drama queen, likes fashion and fun outfits and stuff, manipulative, has eldest daughter syndrome, is both very rational, smart/intelligent, and logical at times; a great strategist; a planner–the/a plan guy, but can also be a big ol’ dummy, a true dumbass, stupid, a moron, etc. /affectionate, not always a team player (I know mention this somewhere else already, but I got a bit more into detail here kinda); can go solo for various different reasons (and this is something he needs to learn), and I mean various.  

Has a huge burden on him and sometimes has just wanted to give up/quite/wanted a break, actually wants and craves freedom/to be free/to have less responsibilities, probably both loves being the leader and hates it, has identify issues, has/had to be a/the parent a lot, can be cruel, cold, calculating, bloody, bloodlust (-y), will do what his enemies do, will go against what he believes to be good to protect the people he cares about, (I have more to say, but I don’t know how to word some of it, so I am not), etc., etc.; I could go on and talk about Leo forever, he is that deep and layered and just has so much depth.

(I also know some of these traits are kind of repeated and/or similar to other ones, but they are still, mostly different in some ways, and some things are explained differently and/or more in-depth/detailed, and/or etc.  Most of these are very different from each other though).

Seriously, one of the most characterized, multi-sided/faceted, complex, human, interesting characters in the TMNT franchise (including Rise, but previous versions too), is just the “perfect, stoic” leader; how laughable.

(The stuff I listed above about Leo; most of them applies to most and/or all(-ish) Leos, including Rise; some are more version specific.  Also, some traits can be core traits, some traits are there or not there pre or post development and/or etc. Basically some traits and stuff depends on the timeline and where they are in their arc(s) development).

Might add some more stuff to this later, but I am not sure.  This is already a lot/has gotten to be VERY long (though, like I said, I can talk FOREVER about Leo/Leos, hahaha), and some of the stuff I want to add I think gets more into/too head-canon-y territory (though, some are (more) canon and/or canon/real to me), or I might not really feel exactly comfortable posting; at least not in this post, because I don’t know if this is the right context for that/some of that, and I am not really sure how I to word it/ if I can word it right/correctly right now/for now.  Anyways, might add more to this later, might not.

This is getting long, so more/the rest will  be under the “read more” cut.

Keep reading