#jc & jyl trying everything to still include him in their family: LIKE HELL YOU WILL

[waitineedaname]

absolutely fucked up thinking about how both jiang cheng and jiang yanli have codependent abandonment issues and their worst fears are their family falling apart and being left behind, and what does wei wuxian do? he fucking leaves

[crossdressingdeath]

Seeing your post about how JYL has a 'ranking system' in her head when it comes to WWX and JC hits so hard, but honestly, the more I read into the Jiang family dynamics, the more I agree. JYL obviously loves WWX, but I don't know if she's capable of putting him above JC. And we see her defending him, and she obviously gives her life for him, but she was also reacting in the moment. Not to speak lightly of her sacrifice of course, but I just feel like there are certain limits to how 1/7

far she's actually willing to go for him. I was initially one of JYL's staunch defenders, and always said that, unlike JC, she didn't have the same amount of political power as him, wasn't in a position to do anything about the Wens, ect. But...I'm starting to question if that's really true. JYL may not have had much direct political power herself, but she was the sister of a sect leader, and even if JC was unwilling to help, JYL had just married into the richest and most powerful sect 2/7

at the time. It was a love marriage, JZX adored her and would've done anything for her if she'd just bothered to ask him for it. Madam Jin also cared for her and respected her, and between her and JZX, had JYL actually bothered to tell them anything, I'm sure they would have been able to sort something out. Or she could have had it as a condition of her marriage - I'm not marrying into the sect that's trying to kill my brother unless you tell your father to stop. Had it been reversed and 3/7

The Lans were calling for JYL and JC’s deaths, no way in hell WWX would’ve just married into the sect, regardless of LWJ’s involvement. Instead she just doesn’t really do anything. We see no proof that she ever tried to see WWX after the wedding dress incident, which — god I instantly saw it as a sweet gesture, but now it just bothers me, because your brother is living in squalor, and you decide to show if the expensive dress that you’ll be 4/7

wearing when marrying into the sect that's trying to kill him, you bring along one bowl of soup for him, and don't even try to explain WHY you're marrying into said sect. Beyond that, we don't see a single moment up until her death where JYL actually seems concerned about WWX, puts in effort to try to see him - she doesn't even ask him how he's doing the one time she does come to see him. When we compare that to how WQ treats WN, yeah, she's outwardly not as loving or sweet, but she 5/7

goes to the ends of the earth for her brother, even going as far as to betray her sect and risk WRH's wrath because he asks her to. And now we come back to that ranking system you mentioned before - yeah, it really does seem like JYL places her blood family first, which definitely hurts, but in comparison, despite only knowing him for a shorter amount of time, WQ truly grows to think of WWX as a second brother. And she treats him as such, at an equal level with WN - after JZX dies 6/7

WQ doesn't attack WWX for what happened. She doesn't try to come up with a way to sacrifice WWX instead and let WN survive in his stead. She and WN, two people who have become WWX's family, both give their lives to protect both him and the rest of their remaining family members. And it's just frustrating to think that the one member of WWX's adopted family who we all thought treated him like an actual brother, might not have really been on his side after all. 7/7

Yes! To start with the wedding dress thing, because it drives me nuts when people treat that like some super sweet act of love: JYL shows up in the Burial Mounds with no money, no sign of having tried to talk the sects around, no news outside of her own, no food beyond a couple bowls of soup (one of which she gives to the guy who can’t eat), and doesn’t so much as ask WWX if he’s okay. She literally came all that way to have a family meal, ask WWX to name the future nephew it’s becoming increasingly clear he’ll never meet, and tell him about her impending marriage into the family that’s currently doing everything in its power to destroy WWX’s life. Like, if you think about it that entire visit is such a slap in the face; “Here’s a bowl of soup while the people under your protection are starving, oh by the way I’m going to marry the son of the guy actively trying to get you killed, okay bye”. All you can say in regards to her helping WWX is that she does potentially manage to persuade JZX to invite him to JL’s one month celebration, but if memory serves the novel never actually specifies whose idea that was and it was JZX who decided to go get WWX after JGY told him about seeing JZXun heading in the direction of the Burial Mounds. And even then JZX does the same thing JYL does; sees WWX outnumbered and surrounded and tells him to stand down. At least in JZX’s case you could argue that the actual fighting hadn’t broken out and JZX probably trusted in his authority to be able to sort the situation out so long as WWX wasn’t actually acting aggressive (or defensive, rather), and he’s also physically strong enough that he may well have been able to intervene if the cultivators had attacked. JYL, when she does the same thing, has no authority and no physical power to defend WWX with. And yeah, both JZX and Madam Jin adore JYL, and neither of them seem super fond of JGS (JZX respects his father, but I don’t get the sense he loves him); if JYL had asked them for help it’s entirely possible they would’ve started at least circulating her version of events and demanding a proper investigation into what happened. But there’s no mention of her so much as trying, and she doesn’t offer to ask them when she visits WWX.

And yeah, compare WQ to JYL and it’s... well. WQ is so quick to offer WWX her love and care? She’s harsh, but she loves him and views him and WN on such equal footing that she and WN willingly hand themselves over to the Jins for WWX’s sake without her so much as bringing up the possibility of saving WN instead. There’s no ranking for WQ; WWX and WN are her brothers, and she loves them, and she’d do anything to protect them. When it becomes clear she can’t save WN (like hell the sects would let him live, and by this point it’s pretty clear that WWX won’t be able to protect them forever) she throws her whole weight behind defending the brother she thinks she might still be able to save, even if it means bringing WN with her to die. WQ knows WWX for... a year or two? Maybe? The timeline is a little hazy. Not long compared to JYL, anyway. And yet she’s willing to walk all the way to Lanling to die in the hope of saving him. It’s for her whole family, yes, but she makes a point of including him. Basically, I think this fandom needs more stuff wherein the Jiangs and Wens survive and the Wens are fully like “Our brother now, you don’t deserve him”.

The thing with JYL is... she loves WWX, she genuinely does, but he is never going to be first for her. To the point where she outright enables JC’s abuse, in places; she always expects WWX to be the one to grin and bear it. Hell, one of their first conversations involves JYL cheerily allowing WWX to cover up JC locking him out of his bedroom and scaring him out into the woods by threatening to set dogs on him! Let me rephrase that: she allows a traumatized nine-year-old to hide the fact that the kid her dad expects him to share a room with locked him out of said room on his FIRST NIGHT and threatened him with his LITERALLY WORST FEAR, and as far as we know makes no attempt to tell JFM herself. To keep JC out of trouble. That is such a thing! WWX was scared to the point of running away and JFM expects him to share a room with the person responsible for that and JYL goes along with him promising not to tell JFM so that JC won’t get in trouble! And from that day forwards everything is just “Boys will be boys” to her. Like, let me put it this way. Before LWJ (and arguably the Wens before that, although WWX saw himself more as protector than protected there) JYL was the person WWX trusted to protect and care for and comfort him above all others, yeah? She’s the one he thinks of as having his back? He doesn’t tell her about JC trying to kill him. JC tries to kill WWX three times before JYL’s death, and WWX doesn’t say a word to her about any of them. You could argue that he doesn’t want to involve her, but... JYL pretty clearly takes JC’s side every time JC starts having a go at WWX. When he chases him out of their room, when he starts snapping about how annoying WWX is, when he stabs WWX... She never outright says it, but there really does come a point where by staying neutral you’re siding with the aggressor, and she reaches that point a lot. Hell, the stabbing is one of those aforementioned near-murders! JC stabbed him! According to WWX (who downplays serious injuries, he never exaggerates them) he had to hold his guts in! WWX is talking about a pretty fucking serious injury (and JYL grew up in a cultivation sect, I don’t believe for a second she doesn’t at least know what constitutes a serious injury) while JC whines about a broken arm like it’s worse than having to physically hold your guts in until you can reach a doctor and JYL acts like those are equal! JC could easily have killed WWX and has enough training with the sword to know better than to go for a blow like that in a staged fight and JYL doesn’t even suggest he should apologise.

Honestly? The more I think about JYL the more it pisses me off that she’s treated like WWX’s best sister more than WQ is. Imagine WQ seeing one brother stab the other in the gut and take the former’s side because the latter broke the former’s arm. Imagine WQ so much as considering allowing a child to cover up the kid he’s supposed to share a room with locking him out and scaring him into running away. She wouldn’t! Because WQ sees her brothers as equals. She won’t pick WN over WWX just because they’re blood siblings; she loves them both, and will choose based on who she thinks is in the right. And she wouldn’t just stay neutral to avoid rocking the boat, oh no. If WQ heard WWX say that WN stabbed him and did enough damage that he had to hold his guts in... oh boy would WN have a bad day. The thing with JYL is that she seems like a good sister in comparison to the rest of the Jiangs; stick canon JYL into a family that genuinely loves WWX and sees him as equal to their other children, and she would not look anywhere near as good.

[crossdressingdeath]

1/9 - So I’m going to go on a bit of a tangent here, so let me know if any of this doesn’t send thanks to tumblr haha. in reference to your comments about the Guanyin Temple core transfer convo...we’ve got to talk about that scene. Because seriously when JC and WWX discuss the golden core reveal in the temple, JC’s behaviour is actually appalling. He openly mocks WWX, to the point where WWX is actually

2/9 shocked because while he knew JC wouldn’t just forgive him if he knew the truth, he was shocked by how “unkind” he was being. It was so bad that WWX, who has grown up with JC’s immature tantrums, felt like this was way too harsh. And then without ANY prompting - literally all WWX says is “I never asked you to thank me” - JC of course takes that as an insult to him. Starts acting like WWX is bragging and saying that JC isn’t as good as him - and in this scene he is so much like his mother

3/9 it’s creepy. He sounds irrational, insane even. Twisting everyone’s words. He starts screaming about how WWX thinks he’s better than him, tries to PHYSICALLY ATTACK WWX - seriously how anyone thinks that you can sympathise with this guy is beyond me. The guy is literally just creating problems for himself.

4/9 But then of course we get the part that you were talking about - when WWX says “take it as my repayment to the Jiang sect” and JC - JC OF COURSE feels the need to say “repayment for my father, my mother, my sister.” DAMMIT MAN WWX DID NOT CAUSE THEIR DEATHS. For gods sake, I feel no pity for JC here because he has had YEARS to come to terms with it. WWX did not kill his parents, the wens did. They would have used any excuse to attack - are we seriously going to blame the victim instead of

5/9 the instigators? For example - JYL told Jin ZiXun off for being rude to WWX. At that stage the Jins were probably stronger than the Jiangs, who were still rebuilding. You’re telling me if the Jins retaliated and hurt the Jiang sect, JC would’ve even thought to blame his sister? Or does he ever mention the fact that his mother was insulting the Wens to, regardless of the fact that they were attacking? Like...if you want to talk about bad decisions, at least WWX didn’t know that his actions

6/9 would lead to the Wen sect attacking - YZY could have at least tried to negotiate that situation, she’s an adult and in charge of the sect for Christ’s sake. But nope, she’s allowed to be angry, and it’s totally the teenagers fault. And JYL? Like god, it sucks that she died, and maybe wwx did contribute to that situation, but he did not kill her! JC needs to stop telling everyone, including her son, that he did, because it’s an insult to JYL and the choices she made. Just...JC is ridiculous.

7/9 Wwx gave up everything for him because he loved him that much. His whole life - everything he had worked for - and he asked for nothing in return. He would’ve happily become the villain if only to protect JC’s reputation and peace of mind. And JC is seriously going to twist this situation to make it look like WWX did this to try and be better than him? Like, how badly did your mother mess you up that you think anyone would go through torturous pain,

8/9 and destroy their life’s achievement just to have one up on you? And if WWX really was some kind of power hungry show off, why the hell would he give away the very thing that supposedly makes him better than you, TO YOU, and then NOT TELL YOU ABOUT IT??? Like, what sort of attention seeking narcissist, what JC apparently views WWX as, would do all of that, supposedly for the attention, and then not tell anyone? Where’s the logic????

I’m missing part 9, but yeah. WWX all but outright says “I did this because I wanted to help you, because I care about you, because I didn’t want to see you suffer” and JC twists it into some hero complex bullshit where WWX only did it to one-up him and just... what the fuck? How do people look at this and insist JC was in the right? And even after basically saying that WWX only gave JC his golden core for attention, after thirteen years in which he could’ve looked back and considered what happened, JC still goes for “Well, actually, you were obligated to give up your golden core because you killed my family and that was definitely your fault”. I mean, that’s pretty much what he’s saying! WWX is basically saying “I did this because I love your family and owe them” and JC’s response is “You killed them and you have to pay for that”. I mean... thirteen years. He’s had thirteen years as a sect leader to realize that the Wens would have attacked anyway, that JYL chose to save WWX even at the cost of her own life, and he’s still spewing this “It’s all your fault” bullshit.

And if the Jins had retaliated against the Jiangs for fighting with JZXun it would, of course, be all WWX’s fault for refusing to sit quietly and let himself be insulted. Just like it’s all his fault Lotus Pier fell, and YZY antagonizing the Wens had nothing to do with it. WWX is an easy target for JC to blame things on; his rank is entirely reliant on JC and he won’t argue if the blame is coming from a Jiang. He’s not going to disagree or lash out. If JC comes up with a reason, he can do anything he likes to WWX and WWX won’t do anything about it. It takes WWX dying, coming back, and spending a lot of time with LWJ (who treats him like a person worthy of love and respect and not a convenient scapegoat even when using him as such would save LWJ a lot of trouble) before he even begins to acknowledge that the way JC treats him isn’t okay. JC has spent his entire life blaming WWX from everything from his dogs being taken away to his father not loving him enough to him not being an extraordinary cultivator to the Wens attacking because WWX won’t fight it. 

Honestly? Even the fact that JC thinks WWX would do anything for the sake of showing JC up shows that JC never actually bothered to get to know WWX. Like, he seriously thinks WWX wants to show him up, make him look bad. Even if we set aside the fact that no one would go through that much pain and suffering and keep quiet about it for so long just to get one over on someone else, what the actual fuck JC, we’re talking about WWX here. The guy who slacked off on training and held himself back right up until war broke out because he didn’t want JC to feel like he was overshadowed. The guy who was always the one to start fights before JC got a chance to so that JC wouldn’t get in trouble. The guy who spent over a decade taking the blame for everything they did wrong and praising JC at every opportunity even when it wasn’t deserved to make JC’s parents proud of him. And JC is saying that guy would have given up his incredibly powerful golden core, crippling himself at the beginning of a war, losing huge amounts of power and drastically shortening his lifespan... just to make JC look bad. He thinks WWX would go out of his way and hurt himself that much to make JC look weaker.

Of course, the reasoning is, I think, fairly obvious: JC would never sacrifice his golden core if he didn’t get something from it so clearly WWX must have an ulterior motive! Except there’s no ulterior motive big enough to make giving up your golden core worth it, so he has to come up with some bullshit about hero complexes and showing off to justify it. He’s just falling into the same pit as so many other jackasses: not realizing that not everyone operates solely based on self-interest.