#it's not even actually critical of aang but we know how certain aang stans are so

[burst-of-iridescent]

I've actually seen people say that the line in TSR sounds like Zuko isn't about defending Katara but that Zuko thinks Aang's beliefs are silly, and he doesn't think it's not part of the "real world" or something. How would you explain that part? I hope this doesn't come off as aggressive, I just want to know your thoughts.

i think what a lot of people tend to forget about aang - mostly because the show loves to paint him as Eternally Right and Wise most of the time - is that we cannot take what he says about air nomad culture as the Word of God. this is not to say that his beliefs are wrong or immoral, but that his interpretation and understanding of those beliefs will be naturally influenced by the fact that he's only twelve years old.

we see multiple times in atla that aang's perspective of air nomad culture is contradicted by that of other air nomads. gyatso is found surrounded by dozens of fire nation corpses that he undoubtedly killed. yangchen tells aang directly that his moral and spiritual duty is to kill ozai, regardless of his own feelings on the matter. clearly, then, neither of these two practiced absolute pacifism and both of them have years of experience and learning on aang. that is why simply reading, or studying, or parroting what other, more learned people have told you does not make you an expert on your culture - because the final component of genuine understanding comes from practice, from living and experiencing and putting your beliefs to the test, tempering them in the fire, questioning those that don't hold up and renewing your faith in those that do.

the problem arises from the fact that aang never does this, because he simply does not yet have the life experience to critically think about what he was taught! and that's fine, but it's also why it grinds my gears when people act as though aang was some kind of moral authority in the southern raiders, because he is very much still a child with a child's understanding of his culture.

that is what zuko means when he says that this isn't air temple preschool, but the real world (not a nice or polite remark, for sure, but also not without an element of truth to it). zuko is not calling aang's beliefs "silly", but he is calling out the fact that aang is not in a position to lecture others using beliefs that he himself does not - in fact, cannot - yet fully comprehend since he does not have the time and learned experience necessary for said comprehension.

and there was a much better narrative there about how aang clings to what he was told about his culture because it's all he has left of it, and how truly honoring his people's legacy means critically engaging with his cultural beliefs rather than enshrining them, allowing him to become a fully realized air nomad instead of remaining forever crippled by his grief - but sadly that's not the narrative we got, since aang had to be Unquestionably Right, and that's why we're still stuck dealing with discourse like this.

[zukosdualdao]

Im glad to read the takes of a fellow zuko stan :)

Honestly, it feels like people just hate on him way too much lately. The posts ive seen on twitter, on tik tok, on tumblr... Do people just not like him anymore? Why did everyone turn against him so suddenly? I've been hoping it's something temporary, just a trend, but. I don't know anymore. People mock his disability, spit on his trauma, wish death on him and interpret everything he says or does in the worst possible way. I saw someone crying about how entitled he was because he took aang's seat when watching the play just the other day lmao. Another person wrote about how mysoginistic he was because he didn't remember katara's name when asking about kya's death to sokka? There are those who even call him a colonizer on the same level as iroh lmao. It seems their justifications for all the salt they throw his way are along the lines of "he's been loved for too long, aang stans have suffered way more, people just watched the show again and realized how bad he actually was, he's catching strays since his fans keep setting him up, his fans paint him as perfect and erase every bad thing he's done" etc etc. I'm all for criticism and deeper character analysis, but this is just said in bad faith. I also think it has a bit to do with how different engagement has become in fandom spaces recently (things people support in fiction need to be morally correct) and well, zuko was the perfect target. He's done bad things, sides with the villains for a good portion of the series, redeems himself but there are things he still has to work on... I don't know, it's been getting to me. There are many other harsh things ive read said about him (like implying how every single member of the gaang hates even after redeeming himself), but i honestly don't have the energy to delve into each and every one. His arc was poorly executed and his development was badly written now, apparently. I kind of just ranted here, i apologize. Im very happy to read the posts of someone who genuinely likes him and doesnt throw him under the bus to defend or elevate other characters...

hi! i'm glad you're enjoying my blog <3 and no need to apologize for the rant, i'm always happy to talk about zuko!

about to theorize a bit as to why it seems like maybe zuko has become a more contentious character, but it should be noted i have not been exceptionally, actively involved in the fandom very long. i loved atla as a kid, have retained fond memories, have witnessed some discourse from the fringes over the years, but only recently has it overtaken my brain to the point of making a whole blog about it. lol. so, like, grain of salt, etc.

i think a big part of it is what you said - in the last few years of fandom in particular, it feels like there has been a huge upswing in purity culture, moralizing liking/not liking certain ships or characters, and an overall increase in very black-and-white thinking. there's also an emphasis on "holding people accountable" (good in theory), often without specifying what, exactly, that looks like (less good). the idea then becomes that if you've done harmful things, there's no way you can ever make up for them and should just, like, hate yourself for all eternity and also die, probably, which is not actually helpful to anyone.

so, i think for those who ascribe to that mindset, zuko is a prime candidate for them to criticize. and while there's nothing wrong with criticizing a character or their arc or writing if you truly have a problem with it, as you've said, a lot of the time, criticisms against zuko don't seem to be made in very good faith. after all, a big part of zuko's arc is having to unlearn some very black-and-white thinking. also, zuko is not a real person. he is a character, and therefore a narrative tool, and if we want him to be 'held accountable', we need look no further than the story itself, in which he is probably the character the narrative holds the most accountable for his actions due to his prior status as a villain.

(it reminds me a bit, actually, of another favorite character of mine: alec in the tv series shadowhunters. he starts out the story already in a heroic role, unlike zuko, but a big part of his narrative is unlearning some prejudiced cultural mindsets and challenging not only his previous ideologies, but his conception of himself and the people in his life as well. as a result, alec can look sometimes more obviously flawed than the other main cast, but the point is that the narrative asks him to examine those flaws and change and introspect and grow in a way that it doesn't always ask of other characters when they are showcasing their own flaws. which does make me thing about zuko vs. aang in the atla narrative.)

the other thing i think is contributing to zuko's more contentious status in the fandom is how long atla's been in the cultural consciousness, and how common it is for things that used to be popular to cycle through to people starting to criticize or actively hate it to people saying "no, actually, it's still pretty good, you just don't want to like a popular thing" (this is me rn), to maybe eventually getting popular again/at least in certain subsects of the audience. zuko was probably one of the most talked-about aspects of atla for a long time, and while i can understand how that could get frustrating (because there are some other really great characters and aspects of the story!), that's not, like, for no reason. people connected with and admired his story for a reason, and many still do, and (in my humble opinion) that is because it is one of the most thought-out, intentional, and nuanced character arcs of the show.

the ableism, i think, really gets to me because like... even if every criticism from the people who hate him were 100% accurate and said in good faith (they're not, but let's pretend for a minute)... that still wouldn't be an excuse for ableism against a character with a prominent facial difference (or making fun of abuse survivors for the permanent injuries they sustain from abuse.) if zuko had never redeemed himself and stayed a villain, it would still be wrong to talk about his scar and abuse the way some of his detractors do. and the show agrees with me! you know how i know? the only two characters to ever make fun of zuko's scar are villains in the narrative: zhao and azula. ("make fun of" might not be quite right for zhao, since what he said - "you have the scar to prove it" - is far more matter-of-fact than azula imitating him by covering her eye or "make sure they get your good side", but he's absolutely being a huge jerk about it.) other characters react to zuko's scar in all sorts of different ways, even when he's still in a villain/antagonist/anti-hero role: zuko's crew is horrified to learn how he got the scar, song sees a point of connection and tries to reach out to him, but, while i think well-intentioned, she breaks a major boundary by trying to touch his scar when he hasn't conveyed he's okay with that, jet makes assumptions about his background because of it, lee, the kid from zuko alone, asks with curious, childish naivete how he got it, only for his father to reprimand him for asking, aang reacts with annoyance/boredom to azula's ableist joke, and katara trips over her words to correct him when zuko thinks she's essentially calling him "scary to look at". not all of these interactions are positive, but the characters (all of whom are written as pretty sympathetic, even if also flawed) aren't outright trying to make fun of him for it, and the narrative never implies he deserves to be treated as less than because of it, even before his redemption.

anyway. if people don't believe in characters' (and, hell, irl people's) capacity for growth and change and don't want to have nuanced discussions about how trauma can impact these things, i mean... that's their prerogative, but i don't understand why they enjoy the show, because those are big parts of it (and not just wrt zuko.)

i know it can be frustrating, anon— trust me, i get very frustrated. but i promise you, there are plenty of people out there who a) still love zuko and his story and b) are capable of and willing to talk about things with nuance and in good faith. i'm happy to be part of that corner of fandom, and i bet you can manage to carve out a space where more people like that exist, too! <3

[meggannn]

thank god im not the only other asian girl who came to realize how weirdly orientalist atla/lok is.

i hope you don’t mind me using this ask as a springboard to get some of my thoughts down (i edited this once and that fucked up the read more, so i tried several times to put this behind a cut again but tumblr hates me so i guess now everyone has to read my beef ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

my friend said last night that ATLA is like the new harry potter with the way people talk about it and..... yknow she’s not entirely wrong.....

like, not to keep pulling this card, but ~as a half-asian~, i have been struggling with this show a lot over the past few months; before even the show came to netflix, i was seeing a resurgence of ATLA stan culture. the hype of the live-action series and the release of the kyoshi novels have also amplified this. i reblog posts because i do still enjoy it, but i have been abstaining from reblogging commentary that so obviously glorifies it.

part of this burst-bubble effect is my problem, because i strongly dislike how people talk about certain characters and ships (and i admit that frustration is seeping through what ATLA did right) and observing fandom favorites makes me think that a lot of points were missed: people love toph, but hate korra (even people who think they love korra only because she’s one half of korrasami, actually do hate korra lmfao); people love zuko but completely ignore aang; don’t get me started on the fandom’s embracing of korrasami/subsequent forgiving of the patronizing, disrespectful, borderline racist way bryke did it. that is fan behavior, and it all bothers me and is no doubt coloring my judgment of the actual show, but beyond that, i also do want people to realize and accept “wait a minute, plenty of the things we criticize other media for also exist in ATLA, and it shouldn’t be different just because this show is full of asians.”

part of me wants to — and does — celebrate that a pan-asian show, in which NO white characters and NO trace of western culture exists, was a critical and commercial success in 2005! and had full network support and resonated with kids of different backgrounds. i can appreciate and be happy of that. but “no western culture” doesn’t mean “no western influence”: it’s an asian fantasy world created by non-asians, so the staff still ultimately wrote a pretty western story. the treatment of the fire lord imperialist dynasty is the big one (iroh was a war criminal who only left the warfront because his actions affected him/his family but now he’s a old friendly Good Guy and never acknowledges the lives he’s ruined! everything is ok now that zuko is fire lord! not like his new friends will have any direct trauma or conflicting feelings with how he is now heading a nation that burned two out of three of their homelands to the ground and tried to burn the third too! now here are all our headcanons about katara/sokka being fire lord/lady, toph being a fire lord advisor, and aang being an air nation rep to the fire nation! perfect ending!!), but also the themes of a pretty straightforward good kids v evil conqueror story, watered-down concepts of buddhism/taoism/others for child consumption — some of these are not strictly bad things, but they don’t make it the best story in the world. they are not worth saying “stop watching x problematic cartoon, watch ATLA, the BEST cartoon with the BEST diversity!!!!”

side note, my friend looked it up last night and there was a total of one asian writer on the staff, May Chan, who according to wiki, just wrote the Boiling Rock episodes. (at this juncture i want to keep in mind that someone in the writer’s or developer’s room might be in my situation, possibly mixed race but white-passing in both face and name... it’d be hypocritical of me to not consider that possibility, but as far as i know that’s not the case, and in any respect i think it’s important to have visible diversity, not because i think mixed people don’t have anything to say or shouldn’t be counted, but in the sense that poc who don’t get the luxury of being white-passing should be allowed control of depicting people who look like them. but that’s another discussion.)

honestly, i can look over some aspects of this show because i still do enjoy it. i like the use of martial arts as a fantastical magic device because it was used consistently and clearly they did their research, even if it does kind represent this idea of Asia, the Land of Magic Powers; i don’t mind because not everyone has the magic powers, the magic powers are deconstructed, people without the magic powers are still treated respectfully, the magic powers are diverse, and they are treated both practically and spiritually (so not everyone, like sokka, has the same awe-inspiring respect of them, which is realistic characterization to this world, and though he’s sometimes portrayed as incorrect in his disbelief of the spiritual, he’s never portrayed as wrong for being practical and realistic). honestly, i don’t mind the oohs and aahs of these magic powers because i still think the magic powers are pretty fuckin cool; it’s likely we’ve all pretended to be a bender at some point lol. and as a kid, i didn’t mind that ATLA nations blended cultures; i thought it was fun to look up later and see which sorts of things were made up and which were influenced by real things (i liked that not a lot if it was made up). i don’t mind that Lake Laogai was named after a real, horrifying place, though i understand and completely respect that plenty of others find the name disturbing and tasteless.

that said, as an adult coming to ATLA for the first time, I would probably not go this hard for a show that blends a bunch of real ethnicities together in a hodgepodge of culture clashes, at least not one spearheaded by a white developer team. i would be less willing to ignore the northern air temple episode, where aang, victim of a genocide, forgives a bunch of strangers who disrespected and destroyed his home (including the guy who was NOW INVENTING WAR WEAPONS FOR THE VERY NATION THAT DESTROYED HIS PEOPLE). i can mostly look over these things because of nostalgia. but the way people outright stan the whole avatar series (including LOK but i won’t get into that right now) without acknowledging ATLA is, ultimately, still a story with a pretty western handling of its themes just with asian faces, is..... frustrating.

a new coworker of mine, also an asian woman who was too old to watch ATLA at the time it was airing, has said that the more she learns about ATLA as an adult the weirder she feels about it and less inclined she is to watch it, which makes me think that maybe i’m not crazy.

[raebellian]

Why I love Katara from ATLA

Katara is underrated and doesn’t deserve all the hate people give her. Like everyone else in the Gaang, she was an invaluable member that they couldn’t have survived without. Hear me out—this is going to be a long one.

First, her role as team mom: We all know that the Gaang saw Katara as a motherly figure—even Sokka, her older brother. Remember The Desert? Aang was having a mental breakdown over Appa, Sokka was high on cactus juice, Toph couldn’t see, and Katara literally held them together. Sure, sometimes Katara lost her temper or acted bossy, but come on! Whose mom doesn’t? In fact, Toph and Sokka agreed in The Runaway that even though Katara got on their nerves sometimes, it was that exact trait of bossiness that the Gaang relied on so much. And I think a lot of those scenes where Katara fussed over things were super cute; it literally made the Gaang seem like a little family.

Second: I know people hate on Katara for talking about her mom so much. But admit it, we were all annoying at one point in our teenage years. And imagine if something happened to your mom or a similar parental figure. If you were a young child when it happened? If you spent years and years thinking it was your fault? If your father was always away and you had to step up as your own mother’s replacement, forced to shove that darkness deep down, hoping for the day when you could get some closure?

When Aang realized he lost his people and broke down in The Southern Air Temple, Katara was there for him. She said it was okay to be sad, that she understood, that she was going to help him. She didn’t have to do that. She barely knew him at the time. But grief is grief, no matter its size and form and how it’s dealt with, and she found a way to get through to him. Same with Haru and Jet. Katara reached out to them by exchanging stories with them, and listened to theirs with compassion as well. 

Of course, everyone expresses/copes with grief in different ways, but Katara’s grief wasn’t any lesser than her friends, nor were her coping mechanisms any less valid.

Let’s talk about Sokka. He admitted he saw Katara as a mother, and that he couldn’t even recall Kya’s face. He also seemed to be much closer with Hakoda throughout the show. Might I also remind you of Sokka’s general goofiness and rather out-of-the-blue sexist attitude at the beginning. I really doubt the sexism was due to Southern Water Tribe Culture—or why would Kanna go there to escape the sexism of the north? Sokka likely developed that mindset as a coverup for his grief, whereas Katara had to bottle up her feelings and step up as the motherly figure as a young child. Sokka’s coping mechanism was to goof around and pretend nothing got to him, and Aang avoided his duties and hardships until he eventually learned to confront them. 

Yes, Katara said some awful things to both Sokka and Aang in The Southern Raiders, but she was a teenage girl mourning the loss of the person she loved most in the world, and whom she seemed to develop her whole personality and identity around. Sometimes you lash out, lose control, and accidentally hurt your loved ones—especially if you’re just a child forced to grow up too fast in a war torn world.

In any case, there’s no doubt that Katara regretted what she said to Sokka right after she said it (look at her expression in that scene), and it’s almost certain that she went and made up with him afterwards. It wasn’t the first time one of the siblings accidentally hurt the other, and it certainly wasn’t the last time either. But there’s no doubt that the siblings loved each other unconditionally, which gave them the ability to make up no matter what, every single time without fail.

Third: I know a lot of people criticize Katara for her initial mistrust of Zuko. True, Katara tends to hold grudges. But from her pov, Zuko did break her trust (which she gave out quite readily, especially for someone from the water tribe) and none of Team Avatar actually witnessed Zuko’s epic redemption arc firsthand. Katara also felt extremely guilty and scared for almost wasting the spirit water on Zuko’s scar, which would’ve ended Aang for good.

The others in the Gaang had more inclination to trust Zuko due to Iroh defending him when he came to them for help in Ba Sing Se, while Katara was stuck in a creepy underground cave probably having a panic attack and fully expecting to be killed at any given moment. I’d probably lash out too if someone locked me up and suddenly yeeted in a guy who tried to kill me and my friends on multiple previous occasions, even if his hair did have a major glow up. 

Speaking of Zuko and his glow up... oMg hE’s sO hOt! Cute fictional boy with dark hair, we all stan!!! Draco in leather pants, anyone? While I love Zuko as much as any ATLA fan, he did his fair share of bad things. The entire first season? His betrayal of Iroh? Sure, Katara had her moments, but did you guys really forget how Zuko treated Iroh? How he constant belittled him on the ship in S1 and in the prison in S3, while still demanding Iroh’s advice? Of course, Zuko got better and gained redemption and forgiveness—he absolutely deserved it in the end—but doesn’t Katara deserve similar sympathy after making far lesser mistakes than Zuko? Is it because she’s not an attractive bad boy? Imagine Katara as a hot dude with a brooding, chiseled face, and I guarantee you the same people who hate her so vehemently will automatically stan her. It’s almost as if there’s a double standard for female characters or something...

In conclusion: Katara cares so, so much with all her heart about everything and everyone, loving and hating with equal passion, and I think that’s beautiful. She is the epitome of gentle yet unyielding femininity (as opposed to Toph’s brashness or Azula’s coolness), and we need more female characters like her who are unabashedly feminine and proud of it. In today’s society, girls are often shamed for being girly, hence the “mean popular girl” trope and the “not like other girls” trend. That’s why we see so many tomboys in fiction, girls who are strong and tough and one of the guys. That’s why we see so many ice queens in fiction, who are equal parts beautiful and deadly in everything they do. Of course, these types of girls are just as valid (and why Toph, Azula, and so many other ATLA girls are so popular and iconic), but women irl are so incredible because of their diversity—not only in appearance but in personality. 

That’s what makes ATLA so good: each character has their strengths and weaknesses and undergoes an incredible character arc. Each member of the Gaang is unique and essential and they all balance each other out personality-wise. Without Katara, ATLA would not be the masterpiece it is, would not be so acclaimed for its incredibly written characters. Without Katara, western animation would be lacking of an incredibly written character, a POC girly girl who is soft and gentle and nurturing and can kick ass in a dress and fancy hair. Without Katara, little girls who grew up watching ATLA would grow up with perhaps many good female role models, but they would miss out on one in particular who would teach them it’s okay to care too much, it’s okay to cry and be angry and hate, it’s okay because in the end things will always get better and so will you. That it’s going to be okay, and there’s always hope and light in the world no matter what life throws at you. That’s what Katara means to me, and that’s why I love her so much.

~Raebelle

[kekeslider]

so whats your take on the catra/adora situation

I have a lot of thoughts about this and I’m gonna just unload them all below the cut bc this is gonna get kind of meta-y and pretty discourse-y, and I know a lot of people are trying to avoid that right now. The long n short of it is that I still like the ship.

I’m actually a little baffled by how much people don’t like this pairing now. It all basically comes down to the belief that Catra is abusive towards Adora, but people seem to be conveniently leaving out that Catra has been abused by the Horde as much as Adora. I’d actually argue that Catra’s abuse was harsher, while Adora was the favored child. That’s not to say that Adora wasn’t abused, because she obviously was, but there are different kinds of abusive situations, and in homes with multiple children, there’s often one that the parent/guardian clearly favors and manipulates and the other that gets the brunt of the abuse. Adora was manipulated and lied to and who knows what else, while Catra was physically threatened and harmed, emotionally abused, and pitted against Adora, her own best friend. They have different experiences, and Catra’s experiences have clearly led to the survival instincts she has now. I’ll also point out that members of the crew have stated that Catra’s portrayal is influenced by their own experiences with abuse (source). So flatout saying Catra is abusive and Adora needs to cut ties and leave her rubs me the wrong way. I think Catra is on course for a big redemption arc, because I think people who have been in abusive situations themselves want to tell stories of abuse victims overcoming it.

So that’s sort of the basics of Catra and Adora’s abuse by the Horde, and people have ended up saying, well Adora got out, why can’t Catra? First I’d like to point out the irony of the fandom pitting Catra and Adora against each other in the same way Shadow Weaver did, holding Catra to Adora’s standard. But what makes Adora and Catra different here? There could be a lot of things, you could get into discussions about nature vs nurture, you could argue that Adora has an inherent goodness because she was destined to be She-ra or whatever. But in the end I think it comes down to the different ways they experienced abuse in the Horde. Adora got to switch to the side of good because she thought she was on the good side all along, that’s what the Horde convinced her of, and she didn’t know anything outside of what the Horde told her. Then she also had Shadow Weaver favoring her, and the respect of her superiors and peers, so her life in the Horde was, comparatively, not that bad. But Catra knew it was bad. I’ve seen people calling Catra evil based on her duh, you just figured that out? line. But doesn’t it make sense that Catra knew she was being abused, because she was being treated so much harsher than Adora was? It was in her face all the time, but like Adora, she didn’t know anything beyond the Horde. Abuse was her norm, and she developed certain survival instincts because of that.

But Adora offered Catra a way out right? And Catra knowingly refused, so Catra is evil, right?? This is where I think Catra’s character gets extra complex, because it starts delving into the psychology of abuse victims, and one of the things that’s pretty well known is that abuse victims will often refuse to leave their situation, even when given the chance. That’s what abusers do, they make their victims afraid to leave the stability of their situation, no matter how awful it is. The devil you know, yanno? Adora wasn’t exactly offering Catra safety, she was offering her the chance to join a weak rebellion against the group that was conquering the world, a rebellion which massively failed the last time it was attempted. And leaving the Horde, and then losing? That would make Catra’s situation so much worse.

There’s a lot you can get into with Catra’s motivations throughout the season, but I’ll leave the deep details to Catra-specific character metas. I sussed out 3 big motivations for her from my 1 viewing at the asscrack of dawn.

1. She’s being forced to act against Adora by Shadow Weaver, the woman who has directly abused her her whole life

2. She wants to take down Shadow Weaver as a form of revenge and surpass her in the process

3. She want to prove to everyone in the Horde that she’s powerful and capable without Adora around (reminder that Adora said displays of weakness were a no-no at the Horde, so it stands to reason that being the best and most powerful is a goal ingrained into them as cadets) because Catra has been pitted against and compared to Adora her whole life (this ties in to Catra’s sidekick remark).

None of this excuses her actions, but it does explain her backstory and allows the viewer to get inside Catra’s head and understand why she does the things she does. It deliberately paints her as a sympathetic villain, because you understand her, and it makes you want to root for her.

Catra being sympathetic is a big thing to me, because it’s done on purpose. They’ve planted the seeds for a big redemption arc, one that may run the course of the show, and that’s something I want to see happen. A well done redemption arc is incredible to watch play out. And I’ll remind everyone that the crew has pretty openly loved Catra as a character, and they’re very invested in her as a character, and I personally don’t see how a crew with abuse victims on their staff would create an abusive character and then care about her so much. That goes double for catradora, they’re all interested in them as a duo and post art and content that toes very closely to the line of ship art, and I can’t see abuse victims creating a show just to ship a character with her abuser.

When it comes to Catra and catradora, there’s a few big important things I think people are ignoring.

- Catra has all the groundwork for a bigass redemption arc. It’s something fans have been expecting and hoping for since the first info about the show was released

- In order to get a redemption arc, she needs to do something that needs redeeming. Think of season 1 as Catra’s villain origin story. A redemption arc has no payoff if we don’t see their misdeeds. But Catra’s misdeeds aren’t a case of Cool motive, still murder, because nothing she’s done so far has such long lasting effects. She attacked some people with the Horde, of course, but also keep in mind that this is a kids show, where things like that have to be exaggerated so kids can see that they’re doing Bad Things (remember that time Zuko burned down a whole village, kidnapped Aang, attacked them all multiple times? And he has THE redemption arc every other one is compared to)

- This is only the first season! There’s so much story left to tell, maybe more backstory for Catra, more flashbacks detailing her experiences, etc etc. There’s something like 39 episodes still guaranteed to come, and I’m not expecting season 4 Catra to be the same as season 1 Catra. She’s going to change, her relationship to Adora is going to change, and I want that change to be positive. That’s a big draw for catradora: positive character development

- The crew has stated multiple times that Catra and Adora’s friendship/relationship is very central to the story, and that definitely shows in s1. Telling people not to like this ship is telling them to not fully engage with one of the show’s main foci (and there are definitely positive moments within all the hurt we see. They love each other, in an environment that doesn’t want them to)

- I haven’t seen a single person say that Catra and Adora’s relationship as is would be healthy and perfect. Everyone knows they have stuff to work through. What I have seen is people caring about both of them as characters and friends, people who love each other and deserve to be happy. People WANT a redemption arc for Catra, and they’re shipping Redeemed!Catra/Adora. They’re looking ahead down the path of character development and hoping it leads to romance, because it very well could. One of the big reasons people latch on to ships like this is that it has so so much room for growth and development, for them as individuals, and them as a pair. I know it’s illegal to talk about vo/tron, but you can compare it to people who shipped k/ance and a//urance after season 1. Neither had healthy romantic dynamics in the first season, but people were looking forward to growth and development, and shipping that. The whole point is that you want to see characters grow together. Development is half the point of storytelling. Romantic ships where they basically start out all happy and good are dull because they don’t have the same space for character growth and development. They’re static, they’re boring.

- The crew of the show likes catradora! They care so much about these two characters and their bond, and I don’t see a crew of LGBT people making a romantically coded dynamic between 2 female characters, hyping it up, creating content of the two of them, just to have one be an evil abuser

This is also where I’ll point out that many other antagonistic characters have been much beloved by the fandom and part of majorly popular ships

- Zuko: Zutara & Zukka

- Bakugo: Kiribaku

- Sasuke: Sasunaru or w/e it is

And you’ll notice these are moooostly m/m ships, and people still stan them to this day. But catradora of course is f/f, and we know f/f ships are subjected to much higher criticism than m/m pairings. In fact, the defense for Zuko and Bakugo is their traumatic abuse backstory, so the same should apply for Catra.

I’m also going to say, at great risk to myself, that I think the discourse around this ship is mostly happening because the current She-ra fandom is largely made of of (ex) v/d fans, where discourse was basically a hobby. And for good reason, there was a lot of dumpster fires in that fandom and show, but I think it’s resulted in people coming into this fandom just chomping at the bit to jump on some discourse and be the most Unproblematic and Self-Righteous. Am I basically vaguing myself by saying that? Yeah, kinda, but I’ll have to stand by it. We’ve seen so little of this show and people are already making major decisions about what’s ok and what’s not because they’re coming off of a fandom with a pretty shitty crew, and they’re expected to be hurt again. But the She-ra crew isn’t the v/d crew, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

This got really rambly and stuff but the point is, I like catradora. I want to see them grow and heal and love each other, because I care about both characters. It isn’t about shipping an angsty abusive ship, it’s about wanting them to find each other again without the toxic influence of the Horde.