#it's bc he's lying/manipulating hannibal

[anthromimicry]

@ethicsbutcher asked: ❛ do you ever think about the future? ❜

it wasn't often that misao found herself drifting off while she was spending time with someone she wasn't very familiar with. and this was because, deep down, misao seemingly had a slight distrust towards humanity in general — what with the fact that one was responsible for the very grievous event that claimed her mother's life all those years ago being at the head of it. well, that, and what she'd been taught to believe as a child: to never let your guard down around one because they could easily stab you in the back. but they were not all bad, she'd discovered, and that was a rather black-and-white way of looking at them. regardless, this belief had still managed to dig it's claws into her. so misao remained hypervigilant around humans albeit much less than she used to be. which made it all the more confusing that all she could find herself doing was looking into the wine that doctor lecter had provided her with before one of his infamous 'ceremonial' dinners.

misao had barely touched it and she'd already had too much in her mind. it was a bit of a bummer that she couldn't indulge in it as freely as he could, but as the saying goes: c'est la vie, right? misao soon found herself being snapped back to reality by the sound of hannibal's voice. 'oh, god,' she thought. how long had he been talking to her? misao put on a small, apologetic smile as her eyes met the others, ❝ ahh, forgive me if it seems like i wasn't paying attention, doctor lecter. i was listening, but i guess you could say i have a lot on my mind, ❞ that wasn't exactly completely true but it wasn't a lie either. for, misao only really had one thing on her mind, but it had been plaguing her mind ever since she got here: what could've been his motives behind why he invited her here. they had only talked in passing when they were both within the walls of arkham, after all, hadn't they?

misao squinted her eyes at the other as if she was trying to read hannibal then. but he was not a particularly easy person to be read, even with everything she knew about body language, and how people's minds worked. winging it seemed like the best option from there as a result as misao eyed the food he was preparing, ❝ oh? that's an interesting question, though i hope you aren't asking it out of some attempt to psychoanalyze me. i already do enough of that to myself, ❞ a light snort left her nostrils then before her eyes flitted up to meet the other's once more. misao wasn't afraid of him, but what was his objective here, hmm? ❝ but if you want the truth, i think i have been mainly focusing on what's been happening around me in the present for a while. i suppose because although the future does matter, we could all die tomorrow. and because of that, i feel as if it's only right to consider the present first. ❞

misao shrugged slightly and made sure hannibal saw her take another swig of the liquor he'd given her even though she really shouldn't have. she resisted the urge to grimace at the acidity of it by closing her eyes momentarily, before speaking up again, ❝ that's just my opinion though. is there any reason why you have been thinking about what's to come, doctor? maybe something... or someone? ❞ misao's voice rose an octave whenever she'd said that last part, trying to convey that she was interested in his life. though misao just asked him this out of 'politeness' so that she could more smoothly question him down the road about why he'd chosen her to invite to his home out of all of the arkham staff. misao didn't actually care much about it. however, she was a good liar. or she thought she was anyway.

[gaslightgatekeepgirlbosscombat]

Group E, Round 2, Poll 3:

Propaganda under the cut

Aaravos

He can't lie according to some curse or sm so he just manipulates thoughts and feelings to the point where basically eveybody dies bc of him plus he's hot

Will Graham

His whole bit is righteous anger and well. We can say that withholding pertinent medical information and believing his lying about being framed for a string of murders, including that he supposedly killed his surrogate daughter, can make him a little pissed off.

[thedarkmongoose]

Hannibal EP 205 Naka-Choko 

(DELETED SCENE) Source

[divinetheatre]

(Different anon) You don't need to publish this but the fact someone came into your inbox with such horseshit is infuriating. Hannibal did not rape Alana and Bedelia. Yeah, Alana wouldn't have slept with him if she knew he was a murderer. But that's like saying the sex you had with your asshole ex was all rape be abuse you didn't know they were an asshole. He did care for her, and the sex they had was consensual. That act was mutual. Him lying about himself is different. And I don't think Hannibal would have killed Bedelia simply for not fucking him. If he wanted her dead, there is nothing she could do (or not do) to stop that and she knew that. She had an odd fascination with him as he did her. So no, he didn't rape Bedelia. Hannibal is not a rapist. The sex he had was consensual. If we want to argue rape, Margot raped Will because she lied and manipulated the sex itself. She lied about birth control. She changed the dynamics of their boundaries of sex without telling him. Hannibal did not do that. I'm not clever enough to dissect the would-be relationship between Will and Hannibal. But it's not going to be sexually abusive regardless of who tops. Sorry that person came into your inbox, and I hope quarantine is going as well as it can for you. Take care!

if u don’t want this up i’ll delete it but i agree with you 100%. i was going to say sm similar to the anon but then i thought that i wasn’t the one who needed to be explaining myself when they obviously can’t even understand the nuances of consent. or maybe they do and they’re just being reactionary bc they’re pissed off that i dragged their abusive little fantasies :/

also yay todays my last day of quarantine and i’m finally feeling better. thanks for the support <3

[gwasgy]

No offence I'm gonna write a whole essay in the tags

If I watch hannibal a few more times I could write essays comparing and contrasting it to killing eve it's literally all I think about

[palatial-monstrosity]

whaddya think of ppl calling alana and hannibal rape bc she wouldn't have consented if she'd known hes a cannibal?

Wait, people are saying that? And idk, it feels weird to me. Of course Hannibal was using her and taking advantage of her feelings, I will not deny that, but she had a choice. Hannibal doesn't deny people choices, rather, he winds them up and watches them go. He seduced Alana - an easy seduction, since she already had him on a pedestal of sorts - but he's a noir femme homme fatale in this (there's an interesting essay abt NBC Hannibal seen through the lenses of hardboiled fiction somewhere). Also, in his own way, he wasn't lying: she had an imago of him, but not an entirely fake one: Hannibal can be gentle and compassionate and interesting and loving and can be a sadist and a murderer. He's all of these things, she only saw one side to him. And later, she will only see the other side, becoming uncapable of understanding his love for Will.

Narratively speaking, we are very close to the regular appearance of Mason Verger, who is a twisted mirror to Hannibal and, rather openly, an abuser to his sister. If Hannibal were the same, he would be no different. In a sense, we see how much Mason is a man in his cruelty, and Hannibal is almost godlike, manipulating people and watching them from above.

On a more plain level, he's hiding something and that's part of the story. It's like having a character in a relationship with a superhero and not knowing about his secret identity, would people say the same? I think not.

[flying-elliska]

Shadow and Bone Season 1 Review

Ok so I got distracted by a need to watch all of Ben Barnes' filmography (lmao) but here is my review : It was really fun to watch and it was clearly made with love which is already the main thing with YA fantasy, which is often turned into a soulless moneygrab when put on screen. The actors were GREAT. I did think that the Crows suffered from being mashed up with the Shadow and Bone story, but they were still a highlight. I also think it was a bit rushed, esp. when it came to Alina's training. The costumes were beautiful, I want a kefta now. Plus the crossover fanfic interactions btw the SaB characters and the Crows were just pure joy. Also Milo, obviously <3 I'm in hyperfixation mode so here, have an essay :

The "Shadow and Bone" Characters :

- Jessie Mei Li !!!!!! She really made me like Alina so much more than in the books, she absolutely is the 'human embodiment of literal sunshine' and she was a joy to watch. Her character's arc is cliché but her acting is so expressive and endearing, I really felt for her all the way through. (maybe I'm biased bc Jessie talking about her ADHD and seeing her thrive at the same time is like!!! i love them they deserve all the best.) I like that they made Alina more proactive - even though she does make some stupid decisions... but I just don't understand people who put that down as bad writing, like ??? have you ever met a real person who only makes wise, good decisions ?? a character like that would either be at the end of their story or just in the background because that makes them static. The things with the maps in the beginning does a good job of illustrating how she is just this one girl making rash, erratic decisions out of fear and loyalty and doesn't have a sense of the bigger picture, caught in the tide of bigger events. It works for her character. When it comes to the choice of making her half-Shu, I do think it really makes sense re: her character feeling like an outsider but I do understand the criticisms that the microaggressions felt too relentless and one-note. I am really looking forward to them introducing Tamar and Tolya and hopefully connecting to them over her heritage in a more positive way.

- Mal in the books was one of the most annoying YA characters I've ever come across, so I really liked that they made him much more of a loyal, devoted friend. I found his relationship with Alina cute, it really gives us the sense that these are two orphans who found a home in each other, childhood best friends (and potential sweethearts) separated by war, two army grunts and ordinary people caught up in the wheels of power and war that usually crushes people like them, it's a great way to introduce the dynamics of their world and it's a trope that always makes me emo. It felt a bit too one note to me, though, and too heavily on the nose, like Mal's only personality was his attachment to Alina (and his resentment towards the Grisha) and too much of her emotional arc also relied on him. Them hitting us over the head with the meadow scenes felt like pure telling instead of showing and it ended up being super repetitive and kind of annoying. I am willing to like this pairing, but I wanted more scenes of them just having conversations about things and really understanding why they like each other beyond the whole childhood friends bond that we're asked to accept exists at the beginning. So I hope there's more depth there in next seasons.

- Ben Barnes!!!! Just jksdfhgkdjghdf. I'm not a big villain stan usually and I hated the Darkling in the books but DAMN his performance is just amazing. They managed to make him more sympathetic and human while at the same time making clear the stuff he does is deeply horrible. There's the Magneto-aspect of 'well clearly his methods are fucked up but he's addressing a terrible injustice nobody is doing anything about' that makes it very tempting to root for him ; and again, well, like, Ben Barnes is so hot and charismatic it feels uncomfortable (which I guess is part of the point lol). His loss of humanity is, up to a point, understandable, brought about by despair, loneliness, grief and a sense of powerlessness - living so long he starts to see other people as disposable, losing so many people he stops caring, seeing over and over how hate never seems to stop, etc. It's a logical explanation for going insane.

But the hunger for power is also very much present as a motivation and this ambiguity is there constantly. Does he maybe come to genuinely care for Alina or is it totally bullshit ? I think he does, he's just so fucked up that it comes out as possessiveness and a need to control her. He wants Alina to be his equal but he's incapable of treating her that way. It's tragic, in a sense, but the show doesn't excuse his actions either. Like his monstrosity is a product of this world full of injustice, yes, and that warrants some compassion, monsters are always a symptom of their environment in some ways and dehumanizing them completely is an excuse ; but at the same time, he sabotaged his own cause anyway the moment he started to treat other people like things, as he does with Alina, because that just perpetuates the cycle of violence and hate. At some point he started feeling like he was the only solution and he was owed power for his sacrifices, and he's using his cause as an excuse. When Alina came to him, there was a possibility for redemption, taking down the Fold, and it's a test because there is finally someone on his level of power. But instead of seeking to remedy the power imbalance between them, he made it worse, by lying to her, manipulating her, etc, and the antler collar is the ultimate sign of this.

I love those scenes towards the end (the antler-based body horror has big Hannibal vibes, so messed up). I like Alina telling him they could have had this, that she had compassion for him and his cause, that they could have worked together, and he's the one responsible for screwing it up and this time his claim that he's the misunderstood victim ("Make me your villain") appears delusional and self-serving instead of somewhat justified. The almost-lovers to enemies vibes, the sense of lost potential, and the angst of the whole 'oh you could finally have been loved by people, too bad you fucked it up !', very juicy. There is this fundamental idea that power/respect/love is not something you are owed no matter how good your intentions are or because you're strong or you have suffered or you're willing to commit horrible drastic actions, you have to keep proving you deserve it, and trying to claim power without responsibility of care turns you into a monster. The thing with the stag was an excellent metaphor of the fact that there's things you can't take, they have to be given to you, and the wonderful power there is in understanding that is what allows Alina to harness the stag amplifier's power. This is really when she escapes his grim utilitarian outlook and a different way forward and owns her own power fully on her own terms.

Anyway I hope Alina gets to beat the shit out of him at some point that would be very sexy but I'm also looking forward to see how their arcs parallel and diverge from each other as Alina starts to grapple more with the implications of her power and the harsh dilemmas of war and her own dark side. I want to see him become scared of her, and I feel it will be more visible than in the books where he just has this cold aggressive facade all the time. This one feels a lot more openly emotional which is just a lot more interesting.

- As for the other characters ; Zoya mostly made me sad. The actress has the perfect vibes but I'm not sure I love their take on her character so far, it does make sense in terms of the later books - that she has internalized prejudice regarding her mixed-race heritage, that she is jealous of Alina because of how hard she's fought to get where she is and Alina kind of takes it away from her, etc. But I would have liked to see a bit more of her being badass and sharp-tongued in a clever (even if mean) way instead of spending most of her time being rejected by men and being racist towards Alina. I did like the ending though, of her actually seeing the monstrosity of the Darkling in action and the mention of her aunt. And her brief bonding with Inej was great, just because it was badass but also maybe because it could be a part of Zoya learning to accept her Suli heritage in turn, maybe not right away but in time, when thinking of that part of herself, she won't only think of her parents' ruined marriage and all the pain it caused, but also of that badass and brave acrobat girl who went toe to toe with these really scary monsters without even having any powers and !!!!!

- Also Leigh's cameo was so cute and as an aspiring writer this is just such wish fulfillment

- I honestly think that having the Crows there actually made the S&B story better ? Not only in terms of the much needed levity breaks but also in terms of themes. For instance, Matthias and Nina's story gave us a really raw and visceral view of how the Grisha are hunted. And Inej's relationship to Alina really gave us a sense of what Alina actually means to people who believe in the Saints in a way that doesn't feel just like 'ugh those superstitious people' because we know that Inej's faith is part of what makes her who she is and a person with morals, and something that saw her through the worst moments of her life. It feels so special that she got to meet Alina and given a sign that maybe the world is not completely shitty. And Alina's kindness towards Inej really gives you a sense that she might be, or become worthy of that belief in time, or at least that she wants to, that she's figuring out her power to really touch people's lives might be a good thing, and that she's starting to accept this responsibility more fully. And her arming Inej is a nice parallel to that. I'm very emotional about this scene, because one of the first things we see of young Alina is her taking out a knife to defend Mal from the bullies, because she's protective and brave, but she's also aware the world is a shitty place, and so her giving that knife to Inej is a sort of spiritual transmission and recognition of sorts, that she trusts Inej with that fighting power, that she'll use this knife to defend herself and her loved ones and not abuse it. It's so interesting. And a counter point to the Darkling's fucked up relationship to power that Alina might at some point get afraid she'll replicate. That you could see Alina trying to gather followers and using people's admiration for her like he did but instead she sets them free and empowers them. It's great. And I feel that when Inej takes to the seas, she'll think about Alina. (I do hope somebody tells her Alina's not dead at some point though god). Girls giving each other knives is my spirituality, honestly.

- And I also noticed an interesting parallel between Kaz and the Darkling in terms of being two emo dudes who like to wear black, are prone to violence and have a thing for two very powerful women they think are special and want to have at their side, but of course, they go about it in very different ways. The Darkling comes at it from a place of power while Kaz comes from a place of utter powerlessness, first of all, and he understands why it's important to set Inej free. Him spending the entire season trying to earn enough money to pay off Inej's indenture is the opposite to the Darkling putting that collar on Alina and while I do have issues with how the show portrays him, I do love that. Love is about setting the person you love free !!!! And that confrontation scene was so powerful, when Kaz tells the Darkling Alina was tired of being a captive ! Drag him !

- As for Genya, I liked the actress and her chemistry with Alina, but I'm not sure they did a great job of making her arc very clear, for instance what it means for her to get that red kefta, her relationship with the other Grisha, etc. Her and David are already very cute though. Also very much looking forward to see where that goes.

So yeah I think they did a great job with this bit actually, I enjoyed a lot more than I think I would and even though it is a very tropey story, there's plenty of depth there too.

The Crows :

- I'm a bit more nitpicky about this because I care about these characters so much. I think overall the problem is that the SaB story in the books happens on this massive scale with enormous stakes, and that next to that the Crows' issues feel less important ; it's like their impact is distorted by the gravity of the much larger story. Like for instance, Kaz in the books is very much at the center of everything, this larger than life trickster figure who knows and controls almost everything by sheer cleverness, and he has this sense of allure and mystique that can't happen here, and so his aura just shrinks. On top of that they're not on their home turf. Being introduced to these characters before they've reached their full levels of badass is weird - there is a reason why prequels generally happen after the main stuff, because they count on the love you have for these characters at their full potential to make you interested in their story when they were less badass and interesting. So I had several moments where I was like 'oh this feels wrong'. Tbh the idea that they would even volunteer to kidnap Alina in the first place, what with Inej's backstory, feels kind of wrong, esp since they had no idea of what would happen to her if they succeeded.

- But I still enjoyed a lot of it though, especially the fact that they were this force of chaos in the midst of this bigger narrative that's a lot more self-serious. The bits with the train, or the circus acts were very clever. A lot of the best moments in the show happen when they come to disturb the other plot in unexpected ways. I'm still dead over the whole 'Alina jumps into their carriage' scene, that was fucking gold. The team up at the end !!!! Alina and Kaz making a deal ! Inej stabbing the Darkling !!!! Them stealing the Darkling's carriage !!! They don't give a shit that the story is supposed to be super dramatic it's great.

- Jesper is the one character they completely nailed from start to finish and he's probably my favorite part of the whole show. He's very funny without being reduced to the role of comic relief ; he's just so! damn! cool!!!!!!! I honestly feel this is a thing they actually did even better than in the books, or at least Six of Crows where I felt Jasper kind of disappeared behind Kaz and they insist a lot on his flaws and issues. So before we dig more into those problems I love that they gave him time to be this ultra badass who saves the day several times ; while at the same time, hinting at further developments like his powers or his gambling issues. Kit Young is just perfect, confident without being arrogant, a bit cold when it comes to crime while at the same time being so obviously caring with Inej - I loved their friendship, that was so sweet. My main criticism is that they should have made it clearer he was bi because there are already people calling him gay and that's very annoying. I know some people had a problem with his hookup and like...I can see it's a bit of a cliché...the charming badass bisexual adventurer....it's a trope I kind of love though lmao and the scene itself felt kind of cute and fun. He's not the only person who is shown to have an active sexuality and he's also not the only queer person around and we know he's going to have a more substantial romantic arc later so eh. On a larger note I loved the little casual hints of completely normalized queerness - Nadia thirsting over Zoya, Fedyor and Ivan, Poppy, etc. Having grown up with fantasy where queerness was either completely erased or very tormented and problematic, this was refreshing as hell.

- Inej and Kaz...my faves... They have a kind of relationship which feels so rare and unique in terms of what exists on TV and while I don't feel they entirely replicated it, the core is still there - the mutual respect and building of trust, the longing, the repression, the trauma, etc. One thing I really like is their arc around faith - in the books, Kaz is dismissive of Inej's faith in ways that often feel really shitty and I like that he learns to be more respectful of it. It's very much linked to hope/survival ; Inej keeps this token from her parents and she hopes to find them again ; Kaz tells her it's no use and she'll survive better if she gives up. He believes Alina is a fake, while Inej wants to believe that myths can come true and there is hope for good things in the world. Kaz comes to accept that Alina is the real deal and, out of respect for Inej's faith, to stop pursuing her. I loved the bit about Inej struggling to kill as well - it's the dilemma of what her survival and that of the people she really cares about are worth in such a shitty world - her compassion is a good part of her but so is her survival instinct, and that's the part Kaz represents - that even after she's been through hell, broken in unfathomable ways, even if she gave up all hope and faith in the world, even she becomes dangerous and ruthless to survive, she will still deserve dignity, and to be treated better. And meanwhile she is willing to break her principles, which she holds so dearly, to save him, when he's never had anyone who cared for him like that - enough to keep him alive. That bit in the church !!!!! God !!!!!! Bye !!!!!!! And then him basically calling her his own version of a Saint, that he doesn't believe in miracles but he does believe in her !!! It's very emblematic of their whole arc ; he empowers her to survive in a ruthless world and loves her at her most dangerous ; but he loves her laugh too, he finds her a ship and her parents, he honors her capacity for love and hope even when he can't share it. And she sees that he's capable of doing better, that he's worth caring for. This whole thing kills me honestly and I can't wait to see where they take this next. I'm not mad they're a bit more soft and obvious than in the books, Kaz would just have come across as an an asshole otherwise.

- That said, there are bits of how they introduced their backstories I don't like. I get that making it so Inej was still tied to the Menagerie gave them a very powerful reason to want to kidnap Alina beyond greed so that they wouldn't look like very shitty people. But in the books Inej is terrified by the idea of simply seeing Heleen or the Menagerie and the way they have her interact with her feels weirdly casual and dismissive of her trauma. Also, in the books, the fact that Kaz had to convince Per Haskell to buy Inej's contract through a lot of effort, that he wasn't the one holding that above her head either, made the power dynamics more palatable. I especially disliked the scene where Kaz says he won't free other girls because just Inej is special, it makes him look like he has the power but he's just too much of a callous asshole to do it, and that he just freed Inej because he liked her which is absolutely not what their relationship is about at the start, it's a lot more about seeing Inej's dangerous side behind a facade of powerlessness and relating to her, in a sense, and this scene made it all feel cheap.

- Also, what was that about Inej having a brother ? Not a fan of that either. I'm afraid they're going to make her story all about finding what happened to him, and that's 1) too on the nose similar to Kaz's story and 2) it kind of cheapens her own arc, a female character realizing that what was done to her was wrong, reclaiming her own power and dignity and then making sure it doesn't happen to anybody else, harnessing her personal experience to save strangers, that's so powerful - making it about a family member at first, especially if it's about revenge, it's so much more simplistic and unoriginal and the perspective really annoys me.

- Also not a fan of Per Haskell not being there because he's a very important part of Kaz's evolution, so I hope he shows up eventually - and the way they introduced Pekka Rollins was kind of like...weird and out of place. I just found the Crows' introduction scenes stilted and not as cool as they should have been - well, Jesper and Inej were very cool, but we needed to see Kaz in action first, we needed to see why he's such a menace before we see him flounder later, and I just...I don't know exactly but it didn't work for me. Also this is a very petty thing but I wasn't crazy about the Ketterdam sets, I know this is probably a budget thing but in my head it looked like this incredible mix of Amsterdam and Venice - specific locations in the book directly remind me of parts of Amsterdam I know very well - and instead what we got felt like this very generic London-ish fantasy setting....so boring. Also a lot of scenes that felt to exposition-y. I don't mind that Kaz was a bit softer than in the books, like many people have said some things work in books and don't work on a screen, and you need to make the character's inner dynamics more explicit. But I do agree that, at the same time, he should have been more ruthless towards people outside of his group. Loved that scene where he faces the Inferni though, and how well they illustrated his disability and aversion to touch.

- I don't have that much to say about Nina and Matthias ; I'm still not super sold on the whole 'haha misogyny!' thing and I dislike that so much of Matthias' change of heart relies on the fact that he finds Nina hot. But I did think that the actors had enough chemistry to make their scenes together interesting and cute ; I loved the waffle scene. Even though it's disappointing that they didn't find an actress who was more clearly plus size for Nina, I still think Danielle does a good job bringing her bold, unapologetic energy. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Crows as a whole team.

So yeah, even though the season didn't feel like a perfect, coherent whole, it was just a lot of fun and I really hope they get renewed. In particular I feel like tying the first trilogy to the Crows' story could create such interesting parallels in terms of themes, about power, the cost of survival, hope, trauma, etc etc

[queerhannibal]

So I have a weird questions but I really wanted your opinion. If Hannibal could have Wills children, would he? Because I came across a fic in which Hannibal said he would not because he would not want to share Will with anyone. This sounds like reasonable Hannibal logic and the only time Hannibal showed any interest in a family+ child was to manipulate Will into staying more than the family, if that makes sense? Both seem like a possiblity but what do you think?

This is a really interesting question!!!!  I definitely can see a characterization where he wants to be Will’s Everything and wouldn’t want them to have a child, and I can easily see a scenario in which they had a child and Hannibal wasn’t happy about how much of Will’s attention the child was getting over him

But I do think the desire to have a child with Will was more than just manipulation? I think this man who has spent his whole life very very very lonely—so lonely he convinced himself he wasn’t actually lonely and just didn’t need people—was presented for the first time with the idea of having a partner and a child who could love him for who he actually is and found that he actually did desperately want that

And I think in a world in which he could have Will’s child in which the Abigail stuff still happened more or less the same way, he’d ne pretty likely to want to have another child with the thought of replacing her? He wants to give her back to Will, he wants to undo what he did. What better way to do that than to have another child with Will?

And if we’re talking like in a scenario in which Hannibal himself can get pregnant I can honestly see him lying to Will about not wanting kids and being on birth control so he can get pregnant against Will’s will and sort of force another kid on them bc he thinks that will fix the hole he’s left in Will’s life by taking away all his other children and also to sate the baby fever that taking care of Abigail incited in him

But yk like I said. I do also really easily see a scenario in which he has that kid and then resents it for taking all Will’s attention and time. Or resents it for other things like being a child and being rude and messy. I don’t really think him being a parent is in any way a good idea. I’m just not sure he would realize that or care about it enough to stop him from doing it (because he really wants to do it)

[stingchronicity]

Hi! I was just wondering if you could quickly explain what happened with bedelia and her patient? I never quite understood the situation and why he attached her and how he died and what does it have to do with Hannibal and whatnot 🥺thank you!

hey !! sorry i meant to answer this way earlier but i wanted to make sure i could sit down and write it out properly

okay so, it took me a few watches to understand this too. to break it down to its essential components:

1) hannibal is the patient (neal)’s psychiatrist. its implied that he sort of manipulated neal in the same way he’s manipulated other people to aggression and violence, unknowingly. hannibal refers neal to bedelia 2) neal is uncooperative from the start. he thinks the psychiatrists are just trying to fill him with meds and not actually help him, etc. he says he’s worse off than before he met hannibal. he tells bedelia that hannibal caused him to swallow his tongue in anger (implied via seizure) but that hannibal just watched and did nothing (sounds a bit like hannibal with will, no?)

3) during one of his sessions with bedelia, neal gets really worked up because bedelia is defending hannibal’s methods. neal accuses her of being just as bad as hannibal. neal gets so worked up that he ends up having another seizure, which causes him to swallow his tongue. this is fairly common with this type of seizure, if you were unsure! bedelia tries to reach down his throat to try and clear his airway, but she ends up shoving his tongue further down his throat and he suffocates. bedelia faints out of trauma

4) hannibal finds bedelia and wakes her. it’s implied that he helped her form a narrative that the patient attacked her and she fought back in self defense. otherwise, she would have been charged with neal’s death

so, hannibal is involved because, based on what neal told her, bedelia got an insight as to how “unorthodox” hannibal really is. not only did his psychiatric methods cause neal seizures and a worsened mental state, he also stood by and watched the seizure without helping, AND then he coerced bedelia into lying about neal’s death. bc since neal was his patient and apparently the cause of all of this, hannibal would be under enormous speculation if neal’s death was seen as wrongful. anyway, i hope this helps some!! please lemme know if you have any other questions, i’d be happy to help 😊

[horrorlesbians]

Hey I just wanted to share my POV abt the hannibal cutting abigail/will - I dont think he killed Abigail only to hurt will, since he did care abt her too. But she also "betrayed" him similar to how will betrayed him. During my rewatch I noticed him manipulating them in similar ways, trying to make them the killers he thought they were. When Abigail dug up the body hannibal helped her bury, effectively exposing them both to the fbi, he says "I need to know I can trust you Abigail. What if I cant?" I thought that was mirrored with will also betraying him to the fbi - hannibal doesnt kill Abigail when she digs up nicholas, and he doesnt kill will when he finds out about him lying abt freddie either. He cut them in similar ways and left them both lying on the floor together, proof of what happens when he cant trust them. Idk how he was expecting Abigail to "redeem" herself to him, like he was w will running away w him, but I do believe that he genuinely cared for both her and will. Maybe he realized that her admitting that "hunting with my dad was the best time I ever had" was only his manipulation and she was forced to kill bc of her dad, not bc she was a reluctant killer like will? That's how I read it, I'm curious on ur thoughts ? (Hopefully this makes sense sorry if it's all over the place😭)

to me abigail never betrayed hannibal, at least at the same volume to which will dead. i read that scene as hannibal digging up nicholas (the silhouette is too big to be abigail even in a big coat and she genuinely looks confused and scared that she forgot she did it when hannibal told her about it), but i could be wrong. she has proven to him very early on by literally telling him she will keep his secret, and continues to after realizing she is eating human flesh. hannibal manipulated her and isolated her while she was “dead” in season two. abigail even kept her promise to him by pushing alana out the window, she could have left with her or left her unharmed. to me he killed abigail because will shattered their family, and he did so in front of will to break him. hannibal knows will loves abigail (if that is genuine or not is another story), a couple episodes earlier will cried thinking about her. hannibal even told her he wants will to see her. her death is 100% because he is betrayed and hurt that will would shatter the idea of their family so he kills her to fully hurt him the most he can. abigail to him has always been a way to get at will and manipulate this idea of family in his mind, and if will (in his mind) doesn’t want that family then why keep her?

[queerhannibal]

do you think that, at the core of Will’s “problem” with Hannibal, was him lying/manipulating Will in s1 and then killing Bev and Abigail in s2, NOT EVER who Hannibal was (aka a serial killer)? Will’s never even shown to have a hint of aversion to cannibalism. Was there ever a chance for them to end up together, in peace, while avoiding the whole lying about the encephalitis etc drama? I realize it’s a very broad question and the possibilities are endless, but still.

I agree that the heart of Will’s problem with Hannibal has never been that Hannibal was a cannibal, or that Hannibal was generally a murderer: yeah those weren’t like, pros, and yeah they might have been enough to keep Will from going for the guy if they hadn’t gotten to know each other before Will found that out about him. But they weren’t the deal breaker? The deal breaker was the things that Hannibal did to Will personally, and to the people Will personally cared about

Certainly it could be suggested that Will’s reaction to the murder and cannibalism in general was simply overwhelmed by his reaction to the personal trauma: maybe he would have been horrified by those things if he hadn’t been MORE horrified by the fact that someone he trusted, someone he cared for and who he thought cared for him, had gaslighted him and encouraged a life threatening illness in him and had murdered his goddamn daughter and only real friend. That wouldn’t be an unreasonable thing to say. But I think given Will’s own relationship with killing, the general murder is something he could have gotten past

Truly the barrier to them getting together “in peace” is Hannibal, not Will. Yes, in the show as it stands we see Will mostly being the one holding back from the relationship, but Hannibal is the one who thought it was a great idea to frame this guy he really liked for murder, like. Hannibal as he is in season one episode one is not in any sort of place to have a healthy or peaceful romantic relationship

I think if Hannibal had just…pursued a romance with Will in a genuine way from day one, it would have gone well. Will would have gone with it relatively quickly and he would be so in love by the time he found out Hannibal was a cannibal serial killer that it wouldn’t end things.

But I don’t think Hannibal would ever have done that without circumstances being wildly different (like in my minivan au). He’s decidedly not looking for love: love is not on his goddamn radar as a positive thing, he’s all about his unattached independence. The idea that he might meet someone he’d give up his life for would sound scary and unpleasant for him, and he’s certainly not inclined to just allow someone as clever as Will to bring him down

By the time he realizes that he’s really a goner over Will, it’s much too late. He’s already fucked it up left right and center and done things there’s no taking back. I struggle to envision a scenario in which he managed to come to that realization sooner and in a less bloody way

Maybe if Will had made a move on him early on, and he’d gotten to Be With Will and see how much that affected him and how much he liked it. That’s the train of thought I’ve run with in my season one au. But that’s a long shot, and even then I think there’s a lot of potential for him to fuck it up bc he doesn’t really understand the depth of his own feeling and because he’s oriented towards self preservation at all costs

[queerhannibal]

You stated recently in your examination of Hannibal (in response to someone's ask if you consider him a psychopath or not) that he exhibits antisocial behaviours. I'd really like to hear about what you consider these things to be (besides killing people lol) if any. I'm really into the psychology of it all, but sometimes I'm not very observant, so it would be cool to hear your perspective.

 I mean obviously Killing People is the big one lol it’s real hard to argue that that isn’t antisocial behavior… but he is actually a lot more socially competent than most people with antisocial personality disorder

I feel like the other big thing is that he enjoys manipulating people into hurting others? Patients like Randall Tier, and the implication that he wasn’t unique: that’s antisocial behavior 

I can’t really think of too many other examples and tbh I’m not an expert in what constitutes antisocial behaviors so let’s look at this list of “symptoms of antisocial personality disorder” that I found on the mayo clinic website

Disregard for right and wrong 

he certainly doesn’t care about anyone else’s morality, but he does seem to have a personal code by which he separates good and bad behavior? There are actions he perceives as being reprehensible and actions he perceives as being praiseworthy

Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others

mmmm yes (although he doesn’t outright lie as much as one often sees with this sort of thing)

Being callous, cynical and disrespectful of others

Again, a qualified yes. He is an asshole, but he’s often not callous at all

Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure

100% yes

Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated

also 100% yes

Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior

indubitably

Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty

I don’t know?? Maybe? He’s not really pushy in that way most of the time?? 

Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead

mostly no, he seems to do a pretty reasonable amount of planning. He can be impulsive though

Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence

hmmmmm aggression and violence yes, hostility and irritability sort of, agitation no

Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others

this is an interesting one bc he certainly is remorseless about hurting others in general but he is also capable of experiencing at least some degree of empathy in situations that don’t revolve around him harming people?? And It might not be remorse but he does seem to regret some things (like killing Abigail)

Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others

not really? I mean in Italy sure but that was an extreme circumstance

Poor or abusive relationships

for sure, and not just with Will; he doesn’t have healthy relationships with really anyone lol

Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them

I’m gonna say yes here bc he seems to keep doing the same dumb shit

Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligations

definitely not at all? We see no evidence of this whatsoever. If anything he seems to be quite reliable

[queerhannibal]

I love reading your thoughts, whether they're expressed in tags or a full post, because you understand Will so well and it's incredibly refreshing. I haaate him being woobified all the time. "Hannibal likes Will bc Will is strong willed and powerful. Hannibal likes the idea of Will being his equal." yesssss, god I love it. I also want you to know your tags of '#and he wants that dick in his ass #what?' gave me the first genuinely fulfilling laugh in days, it's so damn true, thank you for that.

referring to my tags on this post

Oh man thank you!!! I’m so glad I could make you laugh!! it is really true though,  isn’t it? Hannibal wants Will in every way

I feel like a lot of people in the fandom are really bad about seeing Will as a victim and then rejecting the entire multiseason arc that’s him overcoming that victimhood? Yes, in season one, Hannibal takes advantage of Will. A lot. But season two is basically all about flipping that on its head, isn’t it? It’s about Will asserting his power over Hannibal. And then season three is about Hannibal learning to give up control and Will deciding to come to him on his own terms. The Will we see slay the dragon is not a victim any longer. 

And that’s really what gets Hannibal so lit about Will? It’s the fact that Will is the first person he’s ever really met who can understand him, and not only can Will understand him, he can be his equal. Will is the first person he’s ever met as an adult who isn’t just an animal to him, you know? Hannibal loves that Will is capable of surprising him and that he can’t just easily manipulate him into doing whatever he wants. He loves that Will pushes back when Hannibal wants him to do something. He wouldn’t love a docile submissive Will the same way he loves the Will he’s got. 

And the Will he’s got is not docile or submissive. The Will he’s got is salty and snarky and full of bite. He’s fiercely independent and strong-willed and he doesn’t take anything lying down. He loves Hannibal a lot, but he’s still always going to be assertive and do what he wants to do rather than what Hannibal wants him to do. And Hannibal, frankly, finds that hot as hell.