#it seems reasonable to me that whatever magolor is he’s a little different from a lot of the species we’re used to seeing on popstar

[quinn-pop]

how it started vs how it’s going

they can have a little relationship. as a treat

[deafeninggardenerpanda]

Here are 3 different suggestions

Metalor

Metasusie

Metadedede.

I know sort of obvious choices, but I'm curious to see what opinions you have on these ships.

did metadede so its time for metalor and metasusie! putting both of these under the cut because youre getting my double opinion whammy. obligatory "its not every shipper obviously im just generalizing based on personal experience" dont let my opinions stop you from shipping something unless its like problematic obvs lol

theres nothing wrong with metalor but it unfortunately does fall into my "red flag ship" category

ill reiterate my definition of that again for people who didnt catch it in my last rant: what i call red flag ships are ships that are totally fine on paper, but for some reason the shippers and fandom culture surrounding it are just rancid and it throws me off liking the ship all together. and then i get kinda sussed out by people who ship it

honestly i have never gotten the appeal of this one or understood the dynamic at all. and thats fine of course. i did try reading a couple fics about it even, and in them its usually like. meta doing some shit that makes absolutely no sense under the guise of "he has a good reason for it" that just Coincidently happens to land him and magolor into some relationship-implying situation. and also the "good reason" meta knight had for doing whatever was not a good reason and was in fact a huge stretch of a reason for sake of moving the relationship along quicker. which you know i dont shame at all, i get that sometimes you just want to get to the juicy shit and people are absolutely allowed to do that, but that really just sums up my feelings on the ship entirely lol. stretches and stretches of reasonings for them to get together that dont entirely, or sometimes even remotely, make sense but okay they end up together in the end somehow 🤷

the fact that the ship is the two most popular and thirsted over men in the series together is the reason why this one lands into red-flag territory im so sorry. it attracts some um. interesting people who end up being somewhat pretentious about their own interpretations on the characters and some people get a little scary or intense about it. also of course occasionally their relationship being boiled down to whoever ships them nonstop thirsting for both of them but thats like just fandom culture for you, i really cant judge. people do that with metadede too to be fair. also a lot of metalor shippers ive seen are just downright mean for some reason. anyone else notice that or have i just been running into bad people

as people might be able to tell by how fairly neutral about it i seem, this one is yeah one of the less red flag-y of what i consider red flag ships. its totally fine. i personally really dont like the ship but its only like 60-70% of the shippers who i squint at compared to the Abysmal rates of other red flag ships. speaking of, by the way...............

ah the fandoms problem child. its metasusie

i Do think its possible to ship this one in a healthy manner. actually even in a not healthy matter as long as youre explicit about it being not healthy and its just one of those ships you find interesting due to the drama. ive read metasusie fics where it was explicitly about how fucked up the relationship can be and theyre very very fascinating from a story and character perspective if you want to explore a tragically evil but still nuanced susie. i would say highly recommend, but i dont actually because a lot of them just lean into weird unnecessary torture porn. its somewhat of a fine line between tasteful and untasteful

ANYWAYS brief tangent aside, i think its possible to ship this one in a healthy manner because you know me i would be a hypocrite to bash an enemies to lovers ship, but it obviously relies on susie needing to recognize her faults and make up to meta knight in some way, plus improve as a person in general. its somewhat of a grey area depending on various factors, both game and real life perspective-wise, how redeemable one considers the whole mechanization and dehumanization though so i dont blame people who absolutely dont trust the ship

speaking of lets get into the way this one is Definitely the reddest of the red flag ships ever. metasusie shippers what are you doing oh my god

the. the. the the when you the when you woobify susie. i do not use that word lightly in regards to susie in particular because of how often its misused by people who hate her just to mean "im mad that people are making cute friendly content of a character i dont like". no im using it in the actual proper way as in why in the world do i go around and see some metasusie shippers saying "people who hate metasusie are so stupid, susie literally never hurt meta knight in canon!!!" i shit you NOT that is a legit take ive seen a Lot of people have nearly word for fucking word and its like. what are you ON did we even play the same game?? did you even play the game at all??? are you as white and dense as a sack of flour and thats why it went over your head?????

people will try to make the excuse that they have headcanon or interpretation differences that lighten the whole endeavor, which yeah that fair. you can imagine mecha knight was just some suit they put over him rather than anything invasive like a lot of people think. thats absolutely fair. you can imagine that meta knight still retains parts of his super star personality where he was kinda okay with the mechanization in some twisted personal ambition way because hes a power hungry guy who will take any means necessary to be stronger. thats also pretty fair. ah you think this is sounding favorable to the metasusie shippers huh. WRONG. WRONG. YOU CAN THINK ALL OF THIS BUT NONE OF THIS EXCUSES THAT THE WHOLE MECHANIZATION WAS STILL WRONG NO MATTER HOW YOU TWIST IT. tfw mecha knights theme is called "inner struggle" definitely implying that he did Not like being mechanized and was trying to fight against it. tfw the elephant in the room being mechanization is of course a metaphor for colonization which is not a good thing to do to someone regardless whether or not they seem cool with it. tfw THE DEHUMANIZATION. TFW METASUSIE SHIPPERS GO HEEHOO HEEHOO CUTE SHIP AND POLE VAULT OVER THE DEHUMANIZATION. HI.

regardless whether or not you have interpretation or headcanon differences, you Cannot ignore the fact that the game does not exist in a vacuum and its themes are undoubtedly tied to real life parallels. in ignoring those parallels or sidestepping them when theyre so blatant and in your face Yes you kinda are being a huge asshole. susie calling mecha knight an It and being like heres our newest product :) while also having the dissonance of being like hes such a cool strong handsome knight is supposed to directly refer to how colonizers will fetishize the people they colonize while fucking over them and their home because they only like them as a surface level Idea rather than actually respecting their culture and them as fellow human beings right im not just being insane making all this up??? huh???? ive gotten away from my original point i feel but tldr IF YOU PRETEND LIKE SUSIE NEVER HURT OR DID ANYTHING TO META KNIGHT I WILL THROW YOU INTO A GRAIN SILO. NO!!!

anyways if you have susie getting a redemption arc yes youre so cool. if you have them getting together okay thats cool. if you draw susie/mecha knight art and act like its cute im throwing you into the grain silo too. if you dont have susie properly redeeming herself and ship her with meta knight even though shes still weird about him and still colonizing people then i dont trust you and thats the category most metasusie shippers fall in

i also want to bring up the people ship it out of spite, because theres been a big spite-shipping metasusie resurgence in the past year thanks to weird stalking drama sparked by a very certain someone people might remember. yall need to realize that going harder on something that understandably makes people uncomfortable and trying to push back by pretending the ship is (by default) more harmless than it is and pretending that everyone who dislikes it is automatically being unreasonable just because Some people are yikes to metasusie shippers is Not the play to take. it just makes you look like an inconsiderate asshole. two people being assholes to each other does not cancel out it just makes an even bigger fire. get some critical thinking skills yeah

its not the fault of anyone who wants to make cute metasusie content that susie is very explicitly a colonizer and a lot of people have strong feelings about that, bbbbbbbbut i hope it came across in this whole tangent that if you try lessening the blow of her actions against meta knight people have full right to hate your guts imo

EDIT: extremely last minute edit but i just straight up forgot that people who arent lgbtq+ exist in this fandom and thus didnt mention it: can we bring up the amount of homophobes who love this ship purely because its strong cool masculine man x cute pink feminine girl. does anyone remember that one guy who was big on metasusie and had "christian" in his bio and also had "will not do lgbt+" in his commission sheet or is that just me. its so fucking funny. it makes me cry laugh whenever i think about it. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[kaialone]

Kirby Planet Robobot Translation Comparison: Meta Knightmare Returns

This will be a comparison of the original Japanese version and the US English localized version.

Specifically, this will cover all the cutscenes that appear in the Meta Knightmare Returns mode.

You can also watch these cutscenes for yourself in English (1, 2, 3) and Japanese (1, 2, 3).

For the comparison, the usual points apply:

Bolded is the original Japanese text, for the reference.

Bolded and italicized is my translation.

Italicized is the official NOA translation.

A (number) indicates that I have a specific comment to make on that part in the translation notes.

As you read this, please keep in mind that with translations like these, it’s important not to focus on the exact literal wordings, since there is no single “correct answer” when it comes to translations.

Rather than that, consider the actual information that is being conveyed, in which way, and why.

--

Encountering Star Dream:

Star Dream:

……R…E…A…… ……D…Y……………・＞

...R...E...A... ...D...Y... ->

L...O...A...D...I...N...G...

Star Dream:

……………………。

...

.........

Star Dream:

アナタが…新しい… ゴシュジン様…デスネ。

YOU must BE... the new... MASter.

You must be... the new admin.

Star Dream:

……ナルホド、とても ツヨイパワーを お持ち のヨウデ…。

...UNDERSTOOD, it APPEARS that you possess quite TREMENDOUS POWER...

Yes. You possess incredible power...

Star Dream:

……………… OK＞

...OK >

...OK.

Star Dream:

…デハ、ソンナ ゴシュジン様ガ ノゾム…

...THEN, AS SUCH A MASter WOULD DESIRE...

As a new admin, you must supply your credentials...

Star Dream:

コノ星でも… カナリの 強サを持つ…

YOU SHALL be given... THE OPPORTUNITY TO CLASH with a "sword USER"...

to the strongest warriors of this planet.

Star Dream:

「剣のツカイテ」と、 タタカワセテ…さしあげ マショウ。

WHO possesses CONSIDERABLE strenGTH... even for THIS planet.

Executing Sword_Master.EXE.

-

Before Battling Sectonia Clone:

Star Dream:

……おみごと デ、ゴザイマス。

...MasterFULLY DONE.

...Impressive.

Star Dream:

ゴシュジン様には ショウショウ モノたり ナカッタ かも しれマセンネ。

Perhaps THIS was A LITTLE UNsatisfactory for you, MASter.

That may have been a bit too easy for the admin...

Star Dream:

ソレでは 次に、 美シク まうようニ 剣を アヤツる…

SO then, for THE next one, the most powerful queen...

Next up is one whose swordplay resembles a beautiful dance...

Star Dream:

最強の女王を、 ヨミガエ らせ マショウ。

WHO HANDles her blades liKE A beautiFUL dance, shall BE RESURRECTED.

Let us bring back the most powerful queen from the void.

Star Dream:

ソノ たぐいまれな 戦いのセンスと 王たる オーラ…

HER exceptional APTITUDE for battle, and her majestic AURA...

Experience her royal presence and unparalleled fighting skills.

Star Dream:

ドウゾ ゴたんのう クダサイませ。

PLEASE, ENjoy them thoroUGHLY.

She will be a fitting test for you.

-

Before Battling Galacta Knight:

Star Dream:

サスガ、ゴシュジン様デス。 では サイゴに…

WELL DONE AS ALWAYS, MASter. Now, FOR THE LAST one...

You are mighty indeed. Now for the final test...

Star Dream:

かつての ゴシュジン様にハ キンジられて イタ…

THE "Spacetime Transfer Programm", WHICH the previous MASter had FORBIDDEN...

This was prohibited by the previous admin...

Star Dream:

「時空テンイ プログラム」を アンロック シ、

SHALL BE UNLOCKED,

Preparing to boot the Space-Time Transport program...

Star Dream:

イニシエの時代ノ 剣士ヲ、 ヨビダシ マショウ。

TO CALL FORTH A swordfighter from ANCIENT TIMES.

Let us bring back a legendary swordsman from a forgotten time.

Star Dream:

…カレに コノあたりノ 星ハ ホロボされて シマウと 思イマスガ…

...IT STANDS TO reason that HE is LIKELY TO DESTroy the SURrounding planets, BUT...

He may end up destroying a nearby planet or two, but such is life.

Star Dream:

キット、 サイゴノタタカイを 楽シンデ イタダケル ことデショウ。

You will MOST CERTAINLY find THIS LAST BATTLE to be enjoyABLE.

The benefits of this final battle outweigh the collateral damage.

Star Dream:

ソレでは………！

NOW then...!

Prepare yourself...

Star Dream:

時空テンイ プログラム… アンロック… 異空間ロード… リブート…

UNLOCKING... Space Time Transfer Program... REBOOTING... Another Dimension Road...  (1)

Executing Space-Time Transport... Extra-dimensional road... Booting...

Star Dream:

…………３

3...

3...

Star Dream:

…………２

2...

2...

Star Dream:

…………１

1...

1...

Star Dream:

…………………GO!!

...GO!!

...BEGIN!

Translation Note:

I’ll go over it in more detail in the section below, but the term I translated as “Another Dimension Road” is called 異空間ロード/Ikūkan Rōdo in Japanese. This term previously appeared in the Japanese version of Kirby’s Return to Dream Land.

--

Comparisons & Thoughts:

Since the cutscenes of Meta Knightmare Returns all occur towards the end and are pretty short, I decided to cover all of them in one post like this.

Still, just because they’re short doesn’t mean there is nothing to talk about.

-

It’s only mentioned briefly in these cutscenes, but I want to go over the term I adapted as “Another Dimension Road” in slightly more detail.

In the original Japanese version, the term is 異空間ロード/Ikūkan Rōdo, which first appeared in the Japanese version of Kirby’s Return to Dream Land.

To start off, 異空間/Ikūkan by itself could be translated as something like “different dimension", “different space”, “different realm”, or anything along those lines, 異/i meaning “different”, and 空間/kūkan meaning “space” or “dimension”, and the like.

This term has come up a few times in the Kirby series since Return to Dream Land, and the Japanese version of Star Allies actually gives it the English reading “Another Dimension”, which is why I also like to adapt it as that.

The term 異空間ロード/Ikūkan Rōdo, adding the English word “road” to it, also comes up a few times in Return to Dream Land.

Given what I explained above, I like to adapt it as “Another Dimension Road”.

Magolor mentions this term when he talks about his home, saying that it’s far away, but that it’s connected to Pop Star via 異空間ロード/Ikūkan Rōdo.

The English localization of the game adapted this as “interdimensional tunnel” in this instance.

Also, the cutscene that is called “Final Battle” in the English version is simply called 異空間ロード/Ikūkan Rōdo in Japanese.

Going by that, it seems safe to assume that this term can refer to the “road(s)” that connects different dimensions, realms, or the like.

Now, there is a lot more I could potentially talk about with these two terms and how they come up in the Kirby series, but it would be too long for this section here.

I might make a dedicated post just for that at some point, if that would interest people.

So, most relevant to Planet Robobot, is the fact that “Another Dimension Road” is a term we had seen before in Return to Dream Land.

The English version might be trying to keep the connection to Return to Dream Land by adapting the term as “Extra-dimensional road“ here, possibly referring to the Extra Mode of that game.

-

Back to Planet Robobot, here’s something potentially interesting about Star Dream in these cutscenes.

You’ll find that in both Japanese and English it uses about the same speaking style as it did during its appearance in the main story.

And the English version actually adapts it in the same way as it did back then, so I appreciate the consistency there.

Like before, the English version has it use some more computer-like sounding phrases here, like saying “admin” instead of “master”.

Most notable as a change is probably the phrase “Sword_Master.EXE”, which would imply that Star Dream might have a dedicated program just for either cloning Dark Matter Blade, or sword users in general.

But what’s really interesting to me is something else.

Now, I don’t know if this is just a coincidence, but Star Dream does not refer to itself in first person at any point in these cutscenes

With the way the Japanese language works, this isn’t all too uncommon, but it still stands out a bit, because Star Dream referring to itself in first person during the main story was a notable trait it had.

A machine wouldn’t normally refer to itself like that, so Star Dream doing that seemed like a result of it gaining a sense of self during those events.

And keep in mind that those events, namely Star Dream fusing with Hatlmann’s spirit, don’t actually occur during the story of Meta Knightmare, meaning Star Dream actually should not have a sense of self in this scenario.

So, Star Dream not referring to itself in first person during these cutscenes could be meant to reflect that? But that’s just my guess.

In any case, because of the above, I decided to adapt its dialogue in these cutscenes without using any first person either.

And from what I can tell, it looks like the English localization may have thought the same thing, since they also don’t use any (singular) first person for Star Dream here.

I realize this means there isn’t any difference between versions when it comes to this aspect, but I still wanted to mention it, because it’s easy to miss.

-

In the Japanese version, Star Dream’s dialogue here contains more direct references to Milky Way Wishes, with it using several of the same phrases that Galactic Nova used.

Most notably, this includes it counting down from 3 and finishing the counter with the words “Go!!”, which is also referenced during its boss battles.

In the English version, these phrases are slightly rewritten and don’t match Galactic Nova’s dialogue from either English version of Milky Way Wishes, with the countdown in particular ending with “Begin!” instead.

As a result, that final line also no longer matches the visuals of Star Dream’s final boss battle.

If you only look at the text in this game right here, it does make sense to rewrite these phrases slightly, “Begin!” certainly sounds more appropriate than “Go!!” out of context.

But this, combined with the fact that any other subtle reference to Milky Way Wishes in the text so far has been glossed over in English makes me think that the English localizers either didn’t realize that these were references, or ended up ignoring them for some reason.

Whatever said reason may be, I still think it’s a shame, because when you add all of them up, there is a great deal of connections to Milky Way Wishes in this game’s text that are lost in the English version, leaving it only with the visual and musical references.

And those are still nice, don’t get me wrong, but it still feels like you’re missing out just a little.

-

Somewhat related to the above, Star Dream’s reasoning for its actions in these cutscenes is quite different between versions, changing a lot about the context of what is happening.

In the Japanese version, Star Dream seemingly comes to the conclusion that Meta Knight wishes to fight strong opponents. So, the reason why it proceeds to summon several powerful warriors is specifically because it is attempting to comply with that desire.

And that really seems to be all there is to it in the Japanese version, no apparent additional motivation other than to satisfy its new master Meta Knight.

At most you can speculate whether or not Meta Knight really was actively wishing for this to happen, or if Star Dream was misinterpreting him, but...

Considering this is a direct parallel to Meta Knightmare Ultra, and Meta Knight did wish for something exactly like that over there, I’d wager it’s safe to bet Star Dream’s assessment of him was at least partially accurate.

And of course, this also gives Star Dream another direct parallel to Galactic Nova.

In the English version, Star Dream instead states that Meta Knight has to supply his credentials, and thus all the battles that follow are portrayed as “tests” for Meta Knight.

This also implies that Star Dream would probably test any potential new admin in such a manner, in contrast to the Japanese version, where Star Dream seems to accept Meta Knight right away without question.

I know that this particular change has caused English-speaking fans to speculate what sort of test Haltmann may have had to pass, which can be interesting of course.

But for the reference, no such tests seem to exist in the Japanese version.

-

And still related to the above, in the English version, Star Dream states that Meta Knight must supply his credentials “to the strongest warriors of this planet”, which might even be a small translation error?

Because in the Japanese version, Star Dream only states that Meta Knight will have the opportunity to “CLASH with a sword USER… WHO possesses CONSIDERABLE strenGTH… even for THIS planet”, so that latter part is only referring to the clone of Dark Matter Blade.

There is no clear plural in Japanese, so one could interpret the Japanese line as referring to all three warriors that Star Dream ends up summoning, but since it gives a little introduction for Sectonia Clone and Galacta Knight, I think it’s more likely this line right here was just its introduction for Dark Matter Clone.

The English phrasing also makes you wonder why Star Dream would even summon Galacta Knight, who’s not taken from this planet, or even this era for that matter.

It just kinda doesn’t add up when you think about it more.

-

And that’s about it for these cutscenes.

The most notable change is the completely different reasoning behind Star Dream’s action here.

I personally feel it gives this entire ending scenario a different vibe, and potentially the implication of what Meta Knight’s role in it is, considering the parallels to Meta Knightmare Ultra.

With that, we have covered all of the cutscenes of Kirby: Planet Robobot, but we are not done quite yet.

There is still more story to this game, so for the next part, we will start tackling the pause screen descriptions of the boss fights!

Feel free to check it out!

--

< Previous Part | Start | Next Part >

--

[quotes-of-dreamland]

Mod Lor, *please* take this as an excuse to ramble, what you've written is *awesome* so far

Mod Lor: OH BOY ok in that case I'll explain sorta what happened after RtD and Lor's relationship with Magolor because it's what I've thought about the most... I mean I did write what was technically 2 ficlets about it, but they're the same event from Lor and Magolor's perspectives. However I'm nervous so I haven't posted them anywhere outside Discord...

Anyways, so. I already mentioned that Lor woke up after/during the collapse of Another Dimension. I say that because it's the first time Lor is seen acting on her own without any influence from Magolor, because he fucking died and dead people can't tell a strong and independent boat what to do. That isn't to say living people can, because Lor still does whatever she wants, and it just so happens that maybe sometimes what she wants is what she's being told to do.

So, this leads to one of the more interesting times in Lor's life, which lasted maybe a couple weeks to a few months. I'll get to that later.

She's been woken up in an unfamiliar place, and also in a completely new era by this point. See, Lor was initially put in the Haldera volcano somewhere around 100 years of age, probably a bit younger. By this point she's closer to 30,000 years old. To get an idea of that sort of time frame, Nova is closer to 70,000 years, while Galacta Knight is only a few centuries older than Lor.

So, as someone's Dark Meta Knight very eloquently put it in an rp, she's old as balls.

However, she's barely spent any of that time conscious. She wasn't aware of how much time had passed until attempting to go back to Halcandra with Landia, and the first thing she noticed besides "wait what the fuck, Landia has visibly aged" was the fact that Egg Engines was visibly degraded and rusting over. Now, that wouldn't have meant much to most; exposed metal rusts when exposed to rain over time. Simple oxidation. Here's the thing, though:

Lor was put in the volcano before that island of Halcandra had a proper water cycle. She'd been unconscious long enough for the place to develop weather patterns.

So, that was a pretty big shock. Then Landia basically explains "yeah so, uhhh, funny story, you can't live here anymore, times have changed and not for the better" before they go back to their roost. So, y'know, that's just great, and Lor goes back to Popstar to try and figure out what to do with her life. She's alone, everyone she ever knew is dead except Landia (but they don't count because they've now had a whopping single one-sided conversation), and she doesn't even know where she is beyond the name of the galaxy and planet.

That's where she finds herself for a bit of time following RtD. But then, a very interesting thing happens. Lor's chilling, still coming to terms with Everything, and then suddenly an unconscious egg she's never seen in her life just. Manifests in her equivalent of the living room. You know, because that's just a normal Tuesday occurrence apparently!

She initially doesn't really grasp the severity of the situation, because she doesn't know this is Magolor and that he's been dead for as long as she's been awake post-volcano. After sorting out the mutual feelings of "what the fuck?", Magolor passes out again, and Lor realizes "oh wait this kid ain't doing too great" and gives him medical attention. Which is good, because if she hadn't, he probably would've met Morpho again and maybe not been yeeted back into the world of the living for a second time.

So, initially, their dynamic is pretty different from what it is now.

Lor looks at Magolor as suspicious, but she has standards and isn't just gonna abandon him while he's still recovering from some event he can't even talk about without panicking. Basically a reluctant "ok fine you can live here and I'll look after you until you get better and we can figure things out after that". There was some confusion about the fact that apparently everyone seems to hate him for no apparent reason, but she took it as him being in a similar situation to her where he just didn't fit in with what society wanted from him.

Magolor doesn't really know how to feel about Lor at first. She wasn't exactly the most polite when he woke up, but wasn't really mean to him either. Interestingly, she also didn't seem to remember him at all or know about what he did. He knew things that she didn't, and he wasn't really able or willing to tell the whole story.

He wouldn't be until years later, and even then it was because he was put in a situation where he didn't have much of a choice. Thanks Meta Knight! Needless to say, that was a rough time for them both.

Still, it didn't take super long for Lor to go from reluctant caretaker to "I've decided this egg is now my son because he accidentally called me mom once when he was really tired and on pain medication" and Magolor subsequently deciding maybe the real source of limitless power is the found family he got along the way.

Also if you asked Magolor about any of that he would deny it. His mom is NOT a boat, no sir, this relationship is purely for mutual benefits, and not because he doesn't have any way to go back to his "real" family but still requires love and care from someone he can trust and be open with. Pay no mind to the affectionate nicknames Lor gives him like "my little peach boy" or "resident hazelnut" because they mean NOTHING to him and do not help to fill any type of emotional void. This is all extremely true, he is not lying, he has never told a lie in his life, he doesn't even know what that word means.

Needless to say, it doesn't take much to see through that. Even if your vision is as bad as Lor's.

Lor cares he and there's nothing he can do about it. Not that he would do anything about it in the first place. Again he wouldn't admit that.

However, all of this does lead to shenanigans. Despite the age and life experience difference, Magolor gets to take on the role of being the voice of reason, while Lor, being a research ship, likes to test things, like Meta Knight's patience, or Magolor's sanity, or the law... you get the idea. She might be a parental figure now, but that doesn't mean Lor's become wholly mature or stopped being impulsive.

[applekitty]

ive noticed that a LOT of fanfics that try to redeem dedede really dont try. like its not like the author is lazy but the way its executed is

i have never read a fic wherein dedede is given a satisfactory redemption arc, he’s usually just nice from the beginning and very flat with the same personality every other ‘game’ dedede has, basically just ‘i am loud, i’m not mean or cruel im just loud and also im very sassy and a dad dont mess with me im epic’ which seems at first like it might substitute for his evil nature but it doesn’t

or he’s just really outrageously stupid, which is more anime dedede. 

i do agree with you, though i think dedede in and of himself is a hard character to do perfectly ‘correctly’. because when it comes to game canon, there is no correct way to write him. because dedede has no personality. he has hints of personality. which is not replacement for a personality. you are left entirely to your own devices when it comes to dedede’s flaws and his entire mindset in general, because canon supports absolutely everything you could ever put onto his canvas. i could say dedede is a hostile matriarch with no care for anyone other than himself and his kingdom and it’d be supported, because the only times dedede has been forced to act out of good is to defend his planet from something (potentially, in magolor’s case) hostile. or i could say he’s just a cozy uwu dad who’s done some wrong but he’s fluffy and cute nao and canon would sort of shakingly support that.

i went out a LOT about this on the hnk discord server. i’ll leave the entire transcript below but it’s about how people write game canon / why i don’t read game canon fics / the intrinsic, EXTREME difficulty with writing game canon fics. had this convo with @sociallyunacceptableorb , @toon-kirby , and azuranaito

i’ll tl;dr it here but: the reason why game fics seem a little strange while going in is because the games themselves lack a solid personality for the characters. fanon personality exists for them, and usually when writers write for them, they step in such a way which may not align with you, the viewer’s expectations of the fanon personality. it may seem inherently unsatisfying, to you, but for others, it’s very satisfying. the status of game canon and fandom canon makes it harder for you to be satisfied by the fanfics you read unless they are very surface level, boring sorts of fanfics. 

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:40 PM

kitty’s opinion time

most writers cannot go without incorporating the anime in some regard to kirby content due to how much the anime had bled into the interpretations of the games. people will write spanish meta knight as a game thing, people will write kirby being babyish / saying poyo being a game thing, as well as dedede being southern a game thingthe writers who decry the anime as bad / only good ‘at the time’ yet use anime personalities / interpretations make me lul extremely.(edited)

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 12:44 PM

Galaxia was from the anime.

Girlaxia was from 4Kids.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:45 PM

kirby saying ‘poyo’ is an anime thing, galaxia is an anime thing, to pick and choose from the anime shows that the games and their lack of writing cannot stand on its own without having to take from the very franchise that’s being decryed to help a worse written franchise

(edited)

no writing / intrigue writing ≠ good writing

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 12:47 PM

To be fair, it’s probably for the best that anime bleeds into the games or else we’d be stuck with oceans of edgelordery KIRBY IS EVUL AND EATS INNOCENT LIVES… though that’s already on AO3.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:47 PM

looks at matpat

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 12:48 PM

He ignores all canon to make people mad on purpose.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:48 PM

honestly if removing anime canon / anime’s bleed into the video game’s interpretation = writers to go 'KIRBY EVUL’ then idk what to say other than lul

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 12:49 PM

I mean, I don’t think the games writing is shit, but I also don’t trust edgy people with Void Termina.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:50 PM

i think saying 'game writing > anime writing’ is just blatantly.. wrongbecause that’s just saying 'little to no writing so that way you can focus on gameplay > a literal 22 episode made for television with themes and lessons’

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 12:51 PM

Oh! Yeah, that I agree on.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:51 PM

i also dont trust edgelords with kirby or void honestly

or any kirby characters

i dont trust edelords period

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 12:51 PM

I thought you were saying that all game lore was trash.

It’s crumbs.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:51 PM

i used to be one and i made EVERYTHING baaad

it’s comparing crumbs to a loaf of bread

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 12:52 PM

“Well, I hate pumpernickel! So the entire loaf is bad!”

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:52 PM

uerGHERUG

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 12:53 PM

“But you haven’t even eaten it.”“IT’S BAD.”…this metaphor is getting lost.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:53 PM

honestly it’s why i just.. dont read game fics, because there’s little to no ground for writers to stand on and write stuff with

things get too wild and they feel just.. weird ig

i dont know how to put it into words, really

AzuraLast Wednesday at 12:54 PM

That kinda makes me mad with what happened with one of my friends. People got onto her for crossing the anime and games together, which, when she wrote it, it wasn’t bad at all, but because the anime was involved people wanted to bitch at her for it.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:54 PM

interps of game canon are based purely off the person who writes it and all the people reading said thing all have different interpretations which inherently makes reading a game fic unsatisfying and ooc for you personally because your hc filled in the void the game left differently than the authors did. but for the writer it is ic.(edited)

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 12:55 PM

Like gijinka fic?

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:56 PM

reading mirror fics also, inherently, can be unsatsifying i think

for the same reasons

people have so many different interps of how mirror world works that reading anything about it, just on its core basis that the author uses to define a 'mirror world’ can feel unsatisfactory

gijinka as well suffers from this

AzuraLast Wednesday at 12:57 PM

My friend didn’t write gijinka. But she self projected quite a bit onto Meta; her HC for him was that he was an engineer trained under Haltmann.Which also ended up writing out the actual irl problems her major has which is an aerospace engineering.Hoo boy, with the Mirror World, there’s no clear line with it but the majority is usually edgy.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 12:58 PM

people have different interps, and because of how the western world works, we all think our interpretation is the best we can possibly have. usually when we read things we suspend our disbelief, and when it comes to kirby fics, game fics, gijinka fics, i don’t think people can really.. deeply get involved in them.it’s a problem fics i suppose in general have. but it’s especially bad for game canon writers, or gijinka writers.people have hugely different adaptations of the same subject. with the anime there’s clearly written rules and characters defined over the course of 100 episodes. there’s a clear cut story with lots of dialogue and content there to be tackled. but even still, it can be interpreted differently by different people because thats how life works. only the existence of a canon episode cannot be refuted; a fic can be

game canon is harder to do because yes you have the games, and a lot of them, but there is no writing. it is all gameplay. which means that personalities and dialogue and whatever else is not the focus. people can have extremely varying interpretations of canon because of this, which is what intrinsically makes game canon harder to write for. with anime canon it’s easier to write closer to canon because there is a clear cut one. but with game canon, there is no clear cut canon.

AzuraLast Wednesday at 1:02 PM

That’s also why so many people also freak out about all the supposed lore the games have, right?

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:02 PM

the lore in games is very open ended is the thing, so it leads to people’s speculation and very different extrapolations of the lore and canon, yes

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:03 PM

Yup! It adds to their own things; it’s satisfying less for the confirmation and more for the new content to tinker with.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:03 PM

kirby is very, VERY dry in terms of story telling in the games, so any piece of lore given is EXTREMELY important for content creators / theorists(edited)

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:04 PM

I can’t really fault people who build off lore since it’s such a personal thing. Other people get huffy and whine about them “not really appreciating the game” but I find it is appreciation, just in a different fashion. It goes downhill once people get childish and argumentative, though.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:05 PM

the thing is people can also do that ^ for the anime too

remember that one server you were talking about in #newbie-chat

lol

in the end we are the people going 'you are not appreciating the anime right and the way you write for the games is going to intrinsically be unsatisfying unless you go onto the crutch of anime lore'i do anime/game fusion because i know the games can’t stand on their own

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:08 PM

Aheh. But of course.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:08 PM

[snobbish laughter]

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:08 PM

I actually don’t for the same reason. It feels cheap, like I’m forcing a square peg into a round hole.The barebones of the games doesn’t mesh with the backstory of the games that well for me.

StarRodPiplupLast Wednesday at 1:09 PM

So, like, if I wrote a fic with a sentient Galaxia, and then threw the rest of anime canon in the trash, it wouldn’t be cool?

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:09 PM

it’d be relying on the anime canon in some regard, showing that the game canon can’t hold its own

StarRodPiplupLast Wednesday at 1:09 PM

Too many plot holes

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:10 PM

it would be a tad bit jarring, at least in my opinion because im the local brutal 4kids anime stan

but for other people it wouldnt be, i’m just a person with too much time to complain about kirby

StarRodPiplupLast Wednesday at 1:11 PM

I’ve been really curious if “a nightmare of a galactic crisis” was just a coincidence or a deliberate lore inspired word choice, hence why I’ve steered away from capitalist idiot nightmare….it’s fun to write him like that though.

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:11 PM

Also, if it’s a prequel… where the hell does Tiff go? The Cappies? Cappy Town? Dedede just abandons everybody for no reason and there’s a fountain powered by something that Kirby had to create by eating?

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:11 PM

schrodingers cappytown

AzuraLast Wednesday at 1:12 PM

I would like to know my own headcanons give my own appreciation to both the anime and the games. Games can’t stand alone with their bare bones and the anime can always be expanded upon. Nothing wrong with having fun while writing, that’s all it is, isn’t it?

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:13 PM

honestly i think the best way to write kirby stuff is anime/game fusions

i wonder if it’s because thats what i write HMMMMMMEIUGUIERGHERG

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:13 PM

I fuse. I go by manga lore.

Novel, whatever.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:13 PM

novel lore or bust

AzuraLast Wednesday at 1:14 PM

I fuse because it feels the most natural for me.

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:14 PM

Because the novels actually build on it! They don’t pop backstory in everywhere! It’s just a Kirby game with more explanations for stuff in it!

StarRodPiplupLast Wednesday at 1:14 PM

I just wanna write about an evil vampiric wizard for some reason

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:14 PM

the games do need something to help them, i believe. when it comes to content creation of the purely fic type, anywayscourtesycalling does great one-shot comics and what not, they do game lore to the t because their comics are.. well.. oneshots. they’re satisfying by themselves

anyways i’ve got a lot of feelings on people decrying the anime as bad or cool to hate then taking things from the anime and putting it into game lore. that’s mostly what this is about

AzuraLast Wednesday at 1:17 PM

It seems kind of hypocritical in a sense too, doesn’t it?“Oh, I hate the anime but love the games but I’ll piss on the anime as I write my fic because even though I love the games I need to strong bones of the anime to hold me up as I write my fic.”

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:18 PM

yeah that’s sorta what im on about here thank you for summarizing it for me

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:18 PM

Yep! I joke about it a lot myself.Especially people using 4kids voices when they say 4Kids is trash.

AzuraLast Wednesday at 1:18 PM

Same, all it seems to be is a freaking joke.

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:18 PM

Sorry for turning this into a Steven Universe-esque debate thread.

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:19 PM

i instigated it

:v

Garlude Smoocher (Shirley)Last Wednesday at 1:19 PM

:v

chingkittycatLast Wednesday at 1:19 PM

it’s an interesting thread anyways so

[radiantseraphina]

Hello. I noticed that you seem happy to give out writing advice to people who ask for it, so I though I'd take a chance. I hope I'm not bothering you with this, but do you have any tips on writing a b-plot into a story?

The first thing you must do is make sure the climax of your story involves Meta Knight’s estranged brother torching Dreamland to the ground on a giant, mechanical dragon, who Meta Knight then fights in a hot air balloon. Meanwhile, Kirby races to Dreamland’s castle in order to stop an android waddle dee from blowing up Dedede. (It’s a joke). I’ll certainly offer what I know, although admittedly, there are many ways to do b-plots. Again, if you want any clarification or don’t understand my examples I just sort of assume people asking me for writing advice have also read my fanfics?, do feel free to ask. It’s not bothering me in the slightest.

There are different kinds of b-plots, so I’m going to link you to an article just in case it turns out you’re looking for a sort of framing device (the grandpa and little kid from the Princess Bride, most Mark Twain stories, etc.)

Have you ever wondered why so many YA novels have love triangles in them? That’s the subplot, usually; sometimes, it usurps the main plot. But usually, especially the dystopian works, that’s the subplot. Romance works well as a subplot because as you’re developing the plot, you’re also developing your characters’ relationships. That being said, a romance doesn’t have to be the subplot; it’s just a pretty common one.

This does depend a little on how you’re writing, but a good way is to pick the main character you’re going to focus on the most. Then, give your other main characters (within reason. If you have a hundred characters, don’t give them all a subplot) something to do; whatever you give them is your subplots.

For example, in DLU Bandanna Dee’s subplot revolves around his relationship with his brother. This has nothing to do with what’s currently going on with Nightmare, but later in the story, Bandanna Dee’s brother is going to--not only realize how wrong he was--but play a pretty important role when I get to covering Robobot. The good thing with this approach is that it also defines what your characters think is important.

Dedede’s subplot revolves around trying to kick off a romance with the most oblivious man in the world.

Kirby’s subplot hasn’t really showed its head much yet, but it’s going to be about trying to untangle his relationship with his parents because Kirby’s mom really hates Nightmare and isn’t exactly fond of Kirby hanging around with Meta Knight.

Now, when I’m doing anything with a subplot that isn’t, say, relationship-based, I plot this stuff out, primarily because I like to connect my subplots to the main plot (which I want to stress you don’t have to do). And you want to unfold them gradually, just as you would any other plot, so if you’re writing a twenty-chapter fic, maybe don’t introduce and resolve a romance in a single chapter. The subplot doesn’t have to tie into the main story, but I think it works better when it does. Otherwise, your reader might feel confused about why they read about Magolor and Meta Knight having a violin duel when it added nothing to the text.

Another helpful way to think about this is by looking at the structure of TV shows. Typically, they have an overarching plot, and the subplots construct the individual episodes. The Kirby anime, for example, does this. 

Subplots are especially helpful, I think at least, for your pacing. This is why, in the middle of that being stuck in another dimension plot of Hey, Gorgeous You Have Something of Mine, anime!Dedede and game!Meta Knight bond over things. Because if Dedede wasn’t teaching Meta Knight to drive and talking to him, the plot would be: Meta Knight is lonely and sad, BAM!, castle attack, Dedede is there! Which...would really make Meta Knight seem like he was overreacting because, from a reader’s standpoint, it would feel like he really hadn’t been there long at all.

So if you feel like things are moving too fast, or you’re in some sort of Epic Fantasy Adventuring lull, that’s when you want to really use your subplots. Just make sure that your main plot is continuing in the background.

Two is most common, but you can have more subplots depending on how long your work is; the primary goal is to make sure that your b, c, or d-plot advances your story in terms of either plot or character. So while having Bruce Wayne convince Clark Kent to front as Batman, so the two can pretend they’re dating for the tabloids is hilarious...Bruce and Clark should be using their fake dates to either a.) establish their bromance or romance or b.) to work on stoppping whatever villain. Possibly both. Someday, I’m going to write that, and it’s going to be great. Along with that an interstellar villain drops Kirby off on Tony Stark plot.

Alternatively, something that’s popular to do is introduce multiple plots set in, like, different times, so reading one gives you insight on the other. You still have a main plot, but the plots are closer in importance here. (I guess a good example would be Alice is trying to solve the murder of Joan, and every other chapter is a day from Joan’s diary, so you have Alice’s story and Joan’s story. And at the end, Joan’s diary would reveal something crucial for Alice.) This would be like if I wrote DLU and had far more chapters about Bikaia interspersed with the...er, college chapters. Technically, I could’ve set them up in parallel (i.e. Kirby meets Meta, Bikaia meets Galacta, Kirby meets Dedede, Bikaia meets Nova, etc.).

If you are writing historical fiction, put the historical events in there and help those shape subplots. (I recently read an infuriating book that shall remain nameless. Book took place during World War II...there was no mention of World War II). I guess if I’m going to make that into more general advice, give your characters subplots that fit their setting and themselves. This is why DLU Delilah has that subplot about her duchy being on a Haltonium mine; she’s a duchess, so she needs to actually run her duchy. If your warrior princess Arwenhilde is fighting the forces of darkness...don’t give her a subplot involving a random apple merchant (unless, of course, the apple merchant is secretly one with the Dark Side and is trying to turn Arwenhilde away from her mission).

Remember that, while genres had certain rules and expectations, the general rule for fiction, especially fanfic, is that you can break all the rules if you can do it well.