#it rlly pushes up the 'noble' part of his character

[dnangelic]

daisuke being self-effacing while dark is lucifer coded and likewise exemplifies pride as his greatest sin (and virtue) 👍

[tolkien-feels]

So I too began rereading lotr (not bc of you pffft ofc not im my own person wdym) and i gotta ask. What do you think about the eomer and gimli's discussion of arwen vs galadriel. i didn't notice it as a kid but to present me it rlly turns me off their characters though esp eomer's bc he always talks so strangely about even eowyn or how he talked to the poc coded druedain characters too. do you think this whole ish is just the product of the time or is this a deliberate flaw put there specifically

Oof, this one is difficult to answer because I feel like there are several layers to this.

Usual disclaimer that I'm not the best person to talk about this, because scholars make entire careers out of exploring the interplay between author, society, and text. You've asked for how I personally interact with this scene so I'll say that but please take it with as many grains of salt as you can find.

Under a cut because this got long.

Okay, let me go through the layers I think of when I read this scene.

One layer is that Tolkien's work does contain sexist elements (although if you go through HoME, you can see his depiction of female characters improves a lot over time, which is why I feel this was very much him being a product of his time, and as he matures, he began to address his own biases, although of course, his portrayal ultimately doesn't hold up to modern day sensibilities, nor does intention stop readers from feeling uncomfortable), and his views on race are very problematic on multiple levels (and these remain more consistent, I would argue). So a part of that is definitely, imho, just Tolkien showing his biases.

Another layer, though, is that he's very much borrowing from medieval ideas. It's a major trope in medieval literature to have knights praise ladies and quarrel with each other over whose lady is best (which is often tied to beauty, although physical beauty is tied to virtue, so discussing beauty and discussing virtue are often one and the same in medieval literature.) Now, Tolkien started out having dwarves be all evil, and even in The Hobbit, the dwarves are not usually very courtly. That Gimli is shown repeatedly speaking of aesthetics, reciting poetry, and holding Galadriel as the lady whose favor he values strikes me as Tolkien trying to show Gimli's nobility, which is comparable to Eomer's, a prince/king.

Yet another layer is that Eomer specifically is meant to be a character who wouldn't be out of place in a story such as Beowulf. When his views seem Bad, I'm pretty sure they are meant to be, and some characters actually push back on that at times. Not just on his own personal views, but Rohan's as a whole. The people of Rohan are very honorable and heroic, but their views on elves are demonstrably wrong, and Tolkien is interested in how, while heroic, their ideas of death-as-a-noble-pursuit are ultimately out of step with how Middle-Earth works (where life is nearly always celebrated.) I'm not sure we can extend that to the Druedain, because Tolkien's own views on the Druedain seem to me veeeery problematic, but it's not impossible to headcanon that this, too, is a cultural bias of the Rohirrim.

(Side note: nobody comes off looking very good in the whole Eowyn fiasco, but Tolkien seems to be taking Eowyn's side while acknowledging that the people around her mean well and aren't out to make her miserable. For somebody who struggles writing female characters, Tolkien shows a marked interest in exploring the limited choices women have in life, especially in wartime, and how often even good, honorable men are horrible to them because they're simply too self-centered.)

Anyway, back to the issue at hand, I also think it's important to remember that in the context of the scene, Gimli and Eomer are clearly just being playful. I believe they're high off the end of war and joking around with hyperbole. I don't think we necessarily can extrapolate this is how they would normally think about the women around them, nor do I think Tolkien wants us to.

Finally, this scene is barely about Galadriel, or Arwen, or Gimli, or Eomer. It's about Morning that has become Evening. The time of the high elves (as represented by Galadriel) is ending, and now it's time for Gondor to protect and guide Middle-Earth (as represented by Arwen.) Elves are fading, men are coming into their inheritance. Galadriel and Arwen are personifying concepts here, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Gimli (who will also leave Middle-Earth soon-ish) is siding with the Morning and Eomer (a mortal man) is siding with Evening. Again, metaphors.

Sooooo basically, I think while the scene is uncomfortable to read (as are many scenes in Tolkien), my personal take is that any analysis that reads this scene as Free Of Authorial Bias is overlooking aspects, while any analysis that reads this scene as Just Typical Sexism is failing to consider other aspects. It's Complicated, as usual

[renaer-is-allegedly-hot]

session 14 notes

TO CLARIFY IN THIS SESSION AERANA DID N O T TOUCH ADAM’S BUTT SHE SLAPPED HIM AT THE NOTION AND IT’S A GOOD THING HE TOOK 11 DAMAGE AERANA HAS NO REGRETS also am i sorry for this format ? eh not really anymore

• Sylvia's siblings r screaming 

• Dom broke his brother's headphones

•  oh god we're starting but I'm still trying to fROST MY CAKE

• Yava I think her name is is like ok gonna join y'all

• Adam's racist

• GUESS EVERYONE HATES DROWS LMFAO

• Yava hates drows?

• Yava's gonna help protect the house

• I currently cannot breathe because there is a dirty diaper being changed around me and it is

• Aerana theo and asyna r downstairs

• Adam busts down the door and tells asyna to cook

○ Pushing yava into our house

○ "hi everyone this is yava this is my bard teacher she's gonna b basically our security for tonight"

○ Yava tugs on adam's shoulder and gestures to the pile of bodies

§ "yava remember when I said I got attacked last night . This was our self defense pile"

§ Yava apologizes to us for the nature of our circumstances

§ "if any of my friends - or you - " ok a/n: adam has put a suspicious amount of trust in yava given the amount of time and I'm shook

• Outside entrance doors

• Door opened by someone not a member of adam's party or by yava after dark, then spell set off

• All of our windows have been blown up but were boarded up

• Adam puts glyphs on doors and windows they used to get in last time and on basement hatchet and one on kitchen entrance

○ Making them all cold

○ Den on the second floor?

○ I wanna eat my cake

○ Glyphs will unspell around 8 a.m. the next day

○ I !! Wanna eat my cake :)

○ "when u wake up tmrw morning can u deactivate all the spells"

§ She would not b able to reactivate it if we did that

○ It won't dispel until the three days r over

• Jacob forgot celandine's name

• There r street vendors

• There's no ice box like no place to keep drinks cool in the house and apparently that's weird

• We need to feed yava

• "if asyna ,,, turned into a pig" marguerite, 2020

• Dom brings up lotr count: 1

○ Specifically namedrops "the fellowship of the ring" count: 2

• We're going grocery shopping

• Adam and asyna and theo r gonna go grocery shopping ? 18 for investigation

○ Not rlly grocery stores but ppl selling food everywhere

○ I want . Grilled chicken

○ Or like fried chicken

○ chicken

§ Maybe I'll microwave the pasta I made for dinner w some extra cheese on top

• Adam gets pork loins, potatoes, green beans, butter, bread, garlic, salt and pepper (which we have), strawberry sponge cake, heavy cream, chardonnay

○ Cel is making way back to house

○ Perception check, aerana 6

○ Aerana is looking around, sees yava making rounds; yava doesn't seem to treat aerana any differently

○ Eventually aerana sees cel arrive

○ Cel gets back

§ The bodies r not there anymore

□ IT SMELLS LIKE MISTLETOE

□ There is no mistletoe

• "heh. That could be scary" dom, 2020

• I'M H U N G R Y

• "tuesdays are pork loin nights" adam 2020

• Theo works on potatoes

• Cel pops in

• "adam did you make the garlic bread like I asked you to" theo, 2020

• Adam makes cooking intelligence check, 15

• Dinner is done

• Yava is done with one of the spells

• Something's happening I tuned out for two seconds

• Yava no longer considers self as one who goes on adventures but is now asking for our motivation for seeking this treasure

• Yava asks us for our motivations

○ Adam: revenge on bingbong

○ I don't remember the rest but it's not for the money

• Yava says she admirers the nobler goal of keeping the gold out of the hands of the xanathar guild

○ We don't know what we'll do w gold; cel is on team chuck-it-into-the-ocean

○ Could throw it into typ pit

• Oh my god. My cake slaps.

○ I want to focus on what yava is saying rn basically she's proposing we return the money if/when we get it but MY C A K E S L A P S

○ I N C R E D I B L E

○ Yava thinks there's a need for the money

• We don't know if yava is gonna report us

• Adam is gonna feed ot

○ Adam scoots the food back

○ Adam walks upstairs and says he's gonna b gone for five minutes and doesn't come back

• Cel asks yava abt her adventuring days

○ Was part of a nobles court years ago

○ Pirates too ig

○ I want cheese I want pasta with cheese

○ Has been to island of chault

○ Am I microwaving my pasta uh yes

○ Bet my fbi agent is judging me for how I'm reaching for my pasta from the microwave to avoid unplugging my earbuds

• Theo asks for advice from yava

○ Advises us to be safe but also to seek adventure where we can

○ Can get in over our head tho

○ MAN THIS PASTA IS G O O D I PUT MOZZARELLA ON TOP BRUHHHH

○ Yava is spending the rest of her time still guarding our house

• Never have I ever

○ Adam

○ Aerana

○ Theo

○ Cel 

○ Asyna

§ Been in a relationship

§ Been outside of waterdeep

§ Had drugs

§ A good relationship w parents

§ Not had Pets

§ Worn pajamas

§ Thrown up on someone

§ Education

§ Talked to a god or deity

§ Eaten meat

□ Asyna is a vegetarian but made the best pork loin

§ Met my mom

§ Swallowed a key

○ Asyna wins

§ Adam has to kiss ot

□ "this is super important the xanathar r upstairs" tells him to whisper kisses him on the forehead then runs upstairs

§ Cel and theo have to be one big person, go find yava and have a short chat as one person

□ Takes aerana's cloak

□ "do you want to be the top or bottom"

□ Theo is legs cel is heads and arms

○ Aerana has to hug everyone

§ Slaps adam when he accuses her of touching his butt; 11 damage

§ It's canon aerana can't hug

○ Cel sits on theo's shoulders (doing this bc yava is back)

§ Adam gives them a mustache w the purple wig

§ Gave up on walking in coordination

§ Yava is in kitchen standing near entrance, eyes closed kneeling, focusing on spell

§ Plans change cel and theo r gonna go to fallah's shop

§ They're gonna do it the next day w yava actually

• It's abt 11

○ Before yava leaves n during theo's shift, hear a knock at front door

○ Theo looks through peephole

§ Dwarf at the door wearing a guild uniform

§ Two other ppl w her

§ Gnome w them, one appears to b taller

□ Female dwarf, male gnome, somebody taller

□ Yava looks through the peephole and says they don't look to b armed

□ Theo opens the door a crack; the ppl had been repeatedly knocking

□ "female dwarf woman"

□ Half moon spectacles n long ponytail + taller human woman w cropped hair

□ They're all wearing a uniform

□ Utilitarian brown clothes

§ "hello there my name is kalima n these r mertram and harriet; members of one of the city guilds the plumbers guild"

□ Informed by city watch of magical explosion

□ Theo says to reschedule their inspection

□ Theo roasts n says they should've come earlier

® 5 persuasion check

□ They'll come back in two days

□ Lmao lavinia we learning

□ They step down the stairs and confer on the doorstep as leaving

® Look around house and discussing + carrying out informal measurements

® Can't hear anything then they walk away

□ Tells whoever has next watch what happened

□ Yava leaves during adam's watch

® Before she leaves adam thanks her for her work + says he's glad she's become a relevant character in this campaign

® "don't thank me yet adam"

• That's it

• Lord of the rings mention counter: 2