#it also kinda forces me to streamline my art process more which is good in some cases imo

[girlvinland]

I think one of my main like, "new years resolutions" is to make myself do streams again. Mostly drawing stuff. I used to do that in the past (just for friends- I have absolutely no intention of doing it seriously), and it was fun to me bc a lot of times it would be on call too. I think it would be good for my self-confidence to try that again, even if no one comes and I'm just doing it live by myself, bc it's putting myself out there in a different way.

[eponymous-rose]

Talks Machina Highlights - Critical Role C2E121 (Jan. 19, 2021)

Aaaand we're back! The epic pet montage at the start is still the greatest thing ever.

Tonight's guests? Matthew Mercer and Marisha Ray!

We begin with an extensive discussion of waffle farts. As you do.

Matt is asked what it's been like to get to build out the characters in the Tombtakers. Lucien is Matt's favorite, but they've all got some fun traits to them. "It's one of those rare experiences as a dungeon master where you get to watch your players combat with the necessity of playing along. The instinct is: fuck these guys, I want to fight them, we'll take their shit... or I guess we have to play nice. And they begrudgingly grit their teeth and I smile internally."

On the Lucien accent: "You guys are all so mean to Taliesin!" Matt knew his own take would be a "weird mutation" of Mollymauk's accent anyway.

How's Marisha feeling about a lot of her predictions panning out? "Aw, I mean, gee, me? What? Noooo. It's definitely vindicating, I'm not gonna lie, and rewarding, but I also know that I write a lot of shit down in that notebook that's never relevant ever again. It's definitely a good feeling to know that I didn't go on that fifteen-minute deep dive and was utterly wrong about everything I said." Matt: "I was super proud. I was just silently cheering you on as you went on these long tangents."

What does Lucien think of the Mighty Nein? "Lucien is definitely curious about why they're getting involved in his shit and what they're planning alongside them. One, he hates Beau because he doesn't like people who challenge his authority. He gravitates towards Jester to an extent because she's the most open, which from his standpoint makes her easiest to manipulate. He loves toying with curiosity, and so between Jester and Caleb, those are the two people that he's the most comfortable interacting with. Caduceus makes him feel a little weird. He's amused by them. Fjord to Lucien is one of the more guarded and less accessible at the moment."

Is Beau enjoying getting under Lucien's skin? "Beau's picking and poking still kind of stems from her defensiveness and guardedness and her feelings, in a lot of ways, and the way that she's coping with things. It's a few steps removed from her default and what she often resorts to when she starts throwing up those barriers. She still has in the back of her head that she's looking at her dead friend. It's her way of protecting herself if she can go, fuck you, I don't care about you. This isn't too dissimilar to the way she reacted when Yasha was brainwashed." Matt: "It's a unique social sparring match the whole time they're traveling side-by-side. It's unique to have an antagonistic force that you're--" Marisha: "That we're going camping with."

Navigating the Tombtaker/M9 relationship as a DM is "challenging. At any given moment, a wrong statement could escalate matters one way or the other. It's having to pay attention to a lot of things at all points in time to be ready for how those chain reactions can happen and where it might go." He likens it to trying to follow and participate in two different conversations simultaneously at a party.

On the note from Yasha: "Oh man, you guys. Oh, it was so sweet. I don't think Beau was expecting Yasha to be so forthcoming with everything, and so complimentary and eloquent. Beau is awkward with healthy relationships, so she doesn't know how to handle them. She's still processing that and wants to not ruin it. No, it was magical." Ashley told Marisha after the episode that she was trying to think of what to say and wound up basing it on what she would say about Marisha.

Cosplay of the Week: an amazing Vax (by stormfeather_cosplay, photograph by travi_b, both on Instagram)!

On using variations on the Wild Magic table: "I wanted to give it some variation to consequences. They took some of the tooth out of it from earlier editions. I knew it would be fun once I gave them the specifications of when these things would happen - players are just waiting for someone to roll a 20 or a 1 at all times."

Why is it so important to Beau that she and Yasha have a proper date? Part of it is a fresh start. "So much of Beau's past relationships have been rooted in some toxic behavior. Beau feels like, well, maybe we should just start from the beginning in the most us way possible: fighting through the tundra with our dead-ish friend."

The sci-fi-ish theme came toward the end of developing Aeor, but it mostly comes from rationalization. Matt is intrigued by how all these different societies want to usurp the gods... which has parallels with modern society. He notes that focusing more on the science of the magic means the aesthetics pull away to "instead facilitate the utility or the most direct route to the answers you want. You streamline as opposed to focusing on the aesthetics."

Beau’s reaction to all the weird magic stuff? “I think Beau’s just so focused on the pragmatic aspects of it all right now. There are greedy people with motives and the will and want to corrupt across all spans of cultures and times. She’s trying not to get lost in the magic, both proverbially and literally, of it all, and just trying to focus on the motives of these people at hand.”

In some ways, Matt was surprised by Caduceus’ strong reaction to the creepy woods. “It was the first major reveal that there are some other sides to the coin that he hadn’t learned about. I had no idea how he would react. It pushed him away more in ways than I expected.”

Fan art of the week: an amazing Lucien! (by oratorkayla on Twitter)

What’s Dagen’s motivation? “He’s definitely a man of his word when it comes to fulfilling a contract and getting the other half of his pay, but it’s not hard to see they’ve grown on him a little bit. He’s really good at getting around the tundra unseen and unnoticed.”

Brian: “In true Sam fashion-” Marisha, instantly: “OH MY GOD.”

Marisha: “Here’s the thing. Here’s the tea, okay? If I ever hear one more fucking person trying to claim that I’m ruining things by metagaming, I’m going to point to Sam. I’m expected to respond accordingly to Veth being a Sam troll. Gods damn him! Raven Queen curse upon him! Let chaos reign! He made me pull out my earphones, I can’t hear anything you’re saying. It’s frustrating because I’d be mad at it if it wasn’t so god damn funny.” Matt notes that at a different table this wouldn’t be great behavior, but they all know each other well enough (and check in with each other enough) that it’s comfortable teasing.

With a bit of a deeper pull, Matt is asked whether he knew Avantika would return someday? “I knew she was a fun, interesting option out there. The M9 still have in their grasp the single most important artifact, in Uk’otoa’s opinion, at the moment. As long as they carry that artifact, his eye of Sauron is upon them.” Matt notes that he has more encounter tables going, so a lot of the time even he’s not sure what’s going to happen.

Caduceus suggested contacting Essek, but Beau and Caleb nixed that idea. Does Beau trust him? “Gods no. Absolutely not. She can like Essek personally. As a person, he’s fine, I guess. But I think a lot of people might be forgetting that he’s kind of a war criminal and kind of set off a lot of bad things in motion with this war with the Empire and the Dynasty, because he wanted power and to know things. So now here he is, also in Aeor. Yeah. Just kinda putting two and two together there. It is another one of those things of, you’re walking that line on trying to keep him on your good side and having a mutually beneficial relationship before it could easily go completely south.”

On the Star Razor being a Vestige: “I don’t want this to be--- the Vestiges aren’t always a thing where it’s like, you get a Vestige and you get a Vestige! I want them to be still considered special and rare. This is one that had to be earned, it had to be reforged. I didn’t know the circumstances that would involve it coming about.” He based it on the circumstances of Fjord’s evolution into a paladin. “In essence, not only did he finish the creation of the sword, but he Awakened it at the same time as he made this transition. It is Exalted at this point, it’s in its final form.”

What does Beau think might lie ahead? “I have no idea. I am trying to abandon expectation when it comes to that. I know what we don’t know, and that’s it. Beau is trying to compensate for the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns. I hope we can keep this tenuous relationship through to Aeor, because we need more answers before it explodes in our face. Beau, and Marisha, is hoping for a little more information before shit hits the fan.”

[firaknight]

I’m going to explain my entire crossover AU (Fountain of Dreamstone AU) up to what I’ve got so faR AND NOBODY CAN STOP ME— /lh

Aight so—

This AU is basically a very selective crossover of Mario and Luigi: Dream Team and Kirby. That’s breaking it down to the bare fucking essentials.

The long version is this:

Shits going down in Dreamland. Nightmare Wizard is back (somehow) and the bitch stole the Star Rod again. All of Dreamland begins to experience frequent nightmares, including Adeleine and Ribbon. For a while, Ribbon is able to make a type of fairy dust that can stop nightmares, but she’s got an extremely limited amount of it. Before long, there’s no longer enough to share between the two. Adeleine lies and states that she’s been nightmare free for a few days (that’s a giant lie) and that Ribbon should keep using the fairy dust. Ribbon, who doesn’t realize Adeleine is very obviously lying, agrees and starts using the fairy dust on herself from then on. Adeleine starts staying up for days on end, only sleeping for short periods of time (30 mins-1 hour) to stave off total exhaustion. Whenever she does sleep, it’s incredibly light and the slightest things wake her up (it’s to make sure she doesn’t sleep deeply enough to cause a nightmare). Nobody’s able to really do anything about it either. Kirby, MK, DDD, and a bunch of the other Star Allies have mysteriously gone missing, with Kirby and DDD being the only two to know where the Fountain of Dreams is located. Without them, nobody knows where to look to put a stop to Nightmare.

At some point, Ribbon decides her and Adeleine should go on a walk. Clear their heads, take a bit to relax. Adeleine, who is clearly exhausted, agrees and they head out. During their walk they come across a strange stone buried in the depths of the woods just by their house. The stone is shaped like a pillow and it sure as hell doesn’t feel like a stone. Ribbon, jokingly, dares Adeleine to try and sleep on it to see what happens, and Adeleine, who physically can’t refuse sleep at that point, takes the dare.

(Pictured above: Art I drew of that exact scene)

Adeleine flops down onto the “stone” pillow and within moments she’s out cold. Ribbon is shocked she managed to conk out that fucking fast and realizes that maybe, just maybe, Adeleine had been lying before about “getting good sleep and not having nightmares,” but it’s too late to say anything now. All she can do is wait until Adeleine wakes up.

Cut to Adeleines POV and she “wakes up” in a very strange place. It’s a void of melded together colors and she appears to be floating in midair. There’s a voice that calls her over to a strange swirly portal and, being the exhaustedly curious kid she is, she follows it, diving through the portal and ending up in a weird dreamscape that looks nearly identical to where she was before she fell asleep, except things are funky because she’s pretty sure it’s a dream. That same voice calls out again, but somewhat louder and clearer, and she follows it, eventually coming across this giant, purple, almost crystalline rock. The voice appears to be coming from it, and it looks like something is stuck inside, although the rock isn’t clear enough to see through. She attempts to ram into it and the rock cracks! Surprisingly, she’s completely unharmed (normally that act would leave her with a bruised shoulder at the least)! She rams it again, and again, and again, and the rock breaks! Whatever was stuck in there flies out, reforms into god knows what (she can’t see it because it flew up above her and she barely had any time to react to it), and before she can even begin to comprehend what happened, the portal she came through widens, creating a vacuum-like force that pulls her in without warning.

Cut back to Ribbon, who’s been timing how long Adeleine is out for (if she passed an hour without any sign of waking up, Ribbon would’ve taken matters into her own hands). She’s starting to get worried, up until she notices the “stone” Adeleine conked out on starts moving, with Adeleine showing signs of waking up. Within moments, Adeleine opens her eyes and sits up, a little frazzled. They exchange looks and Adeleine gets spooked by something appearing behind her, whipping around to find some small prince, probably a little taller than Ribbon, floating behind her. He’s got a pillow shaped head (which could be his clothes, she’s not entirely sure), looks kinda human-esc, and is very small compared to her. He gives his thanks for rescuing him and asks if Adeleine was the one to free him of his prison. Adeleine, who has no idea what just happened, answers with a meek “maybe” while she tries to process the situation.

This incredibly tiny man tells them his name is Prince Dreambert, and that he was sealed away by Antasma many years ago. He hails from a place known as Pi’illo Island, and has no idea where he is, how he got here, and why he’s here. Adeleine and Ribbon give their names, tell him he’s in Cloudy Park, part of one of the far corners of Dreamland, which is nestled on Planet Popstar. They mention that everyone’s been having nightmares recently and ask if he’s got anything to do with it. Dreambert brings up Antasma again and mentions he might be a cause, giving a detailed description of what he looks like.

(Pictured above: Antasma using the power of the Dark Stone)

Adeleine realizes that the description fits the criteria of a reoccurring figure multiple people have spotted in their nightmares and mentions it, adding in that a villain from their world, Nightmare Wizard, may have teamed up with Antasma. Dreambert realizes that this world could be in grave danger if those two aren’t stopped and asks to join up with Adeleine and Ribbon to help them find Antasma and Nightmare and put a stop to them before it’s too late. The two agree and the three of them venture out to put a stop the the baddies.

🪐Here’s some extra notes:

Combat has to happen, of course, and I wanna style the roles after M&L:DT so it’s a little more streamlined. Real world combat functions as normal, with Adeleine and Ribbon functioning like Mario and Luigi, partnering up for some attacks but able to fight on their own. Dreambert kinda hangs back and gives assistance when in dire straights. Dream World exploration and combat are wildly different. Adeleine takes the role of Mario (with similar abilities to Dreamy Luigi), venturing through the Dream World, but she’s asleep instead of jumping into a portal whilst awake. Dreambert functions like Dreamy Luigi, giving Adeleine his powers whilst in the Dream World and helping in combat. Ribbon takes on the role of Starlow during those segments, staying in the real world and interacting with Adeleine and the things around her to trigger things in the Dream World.

Giant battles would still be a thing, just triggered and handled differently. Adeleine can’t conjure up dreamy copies of herself (she has no idea how to do that), and relies heavily on Dreambert for help in combat. When an enemy too big to fight approaches, she winds up cowering in fear, going into self-preservation mode to try and keep herself alive. Her real world body yanks her beret over her eyes in fear, probably crying. Ribbon, who’s worried for her, attempts to comfort her, triggering a reaction in the Dream World. Magic swirls around Dreamy Adeleine and allows her to size up to the enemy. During this time, a small Dream portal opens and Ribbon is able to fly in to provide assistance. She functions like Mario during the giant battles, using her abilities to double up attacks, but requires time to recover from pushing herself to help. Once the fight is over, Ribbon is forced out of the Dream World while Adeleine turns back to normal and finishes whatever she was doing there. It’s unclear why a Dream portal opens when Adeleine is in severe distress, but Dreambert theorizes its a reaction triggered to get help from the outside world, possibly from someone who could enter and help, like Ribbon.

During the fight with Antasma, who can take away Dreamy Luigi in the canon game, Dreambert winds up being the one taken from Adeleine. He’s probably just held onto and Adeleine simply needs to hit Antasma hard enough to make him let go, in contrast to Antasma sealing Dreamy Luigi in a nightmare orb and forcing Mario to figure out which one Dreamy Luigi is being kept in so Mario can break it.

Idk what the other bosses would be (including the giant fights), but the final fight is Nightmare Wizard and Antasma teamed up.

Also, it looks like the other Star Allies met a similar fate to the Pi’illos, like Dreambert. How they’re going to be rescued is a mystery... ;)

[comicteaparty]

April 4th-April 10th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble  chat that occurred from April 4th, 2020 to April 10th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

What is something you’ve improved with in regards to writing or comic creation thanks to working on your story?

carcarchu

Oh this one i can answer definitively. it's 100% lineart. forcing myself to have to do lineart for hours everyday is definitely a way to force yourself to get better at it while i still don't like it it's something that i can do now without being scared about it

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Colouring. I had to get really creative in expressing emotion and hinting plot devices with colour. Also got much better with drawing gesture drawings due to looking at a lot of references!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Either writing dialogue or drawing/painting backgrounds... I used to be particularly awful at writing dialogue. It was too stiff and formal, and sounded a lot like old prose. Now, because of writing a comic and going through several scripts, the dialogue is a lot more natural, and the pacing is more realistic to actual conversations. And the other: backgrounds. I really used to not even draw them at all, and doing a comic forced me to have to think about environments in scenes. So I went from drawing floating characters to having to consider where they are and how it affects the story/mood.(edited)

Feather J. Fern

Paneling! That was my main focus to figure out how to do good paneling to have clearer pages

Deo101 [Millennium]

Honestly? Everything. It's all gotten better and I've learned so much. I would say my biggest improvement is probably in my time management, and art wise is probably composition and layouts. But it's hard to pick because I've grown so much in every aspect!

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Biggest thing I learned was to keep the story small and focused - and that the smaller, more human struggles are much better in creating tension than the whole default "the world's gonna end!" thing. Mind you, I still love a good "world's ending" story, but you gotta make people CARE about the people in that world first!

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

ohohohoooo I have done more drawing in photoshop in this short time I have worked on Wayfinders, than the rest of my life! That has given me some skills for sure! Coloring is another one, and generally just efficiency and flow in a comic

Nutty (Court of Roses)

For me it's been my use of color, and getting more confident in experimenting with it to really drive home a scene's mood!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

The clearest improvement I always notice is my layouts - I’ve gotten more adventurous with panel shapes and placement as time has gone on, experimenting with more interesting designs for the whole page. Some of those experiments haven’t been totally successful but it always feels like a worthwhile try. I’ve gotten some really, REALLY cool layouts out of these experiments, and I love seeing how dynamic the panels have become compared to my first chapter. Also speed. I’m so much faster now. Thank gooooooodness (edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

@LadyLazuli (Phantomarine) I've definitely noticed the experimental panel layouts! They're really cool.

AntiBunny

Planning. Book 2 is when I started using sketchbook thumbnails to plan ahead. The luxury of that first draft meant I could rethink panel layouts and how to best express the events happening if I first had an idea of what was happening laid out.

Also digital art by necessity since I switched to digital during the current arc. I was decent at lineart already, but other aspects have really challenged me to grow as an artist. I had to totally rethink the way I create backgrounds for instance. During this time the background quality actually declined a little while I got used to a new method, but experience has improved my skills greatly as I force myself into new methods.

DanitheCarutor

Hmmm maybe paneling, speechbubbles and backgrounds? My current project is my second real attempt at doing a comic, but I have learned a lot of stuff from the community and general art and story tutorials. Backgrounds and bubbles were the worst for me when first starting out, I only read manga before starting so the speechbubble shapes did not fit with how English is written. Plus I've only drawn wooded fantasy settings before making my comic, so using a ruler, figuring out perspective points and drawing buildings was very new to me. I still hate drawing cities and such, but I've gotten a lot better at it and it is easier to do now. Since I mostly stuck with B&W before my current project, coloring also kind of improved? Depending on who's looking at it. Lmao If I were to think about story/characters/dialogue, I have no idea if I've improved. Honestly, I don't pay much attention to the quality. Also my brain kinda says it's all bad regardless of what I make.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

For my Improvements: I'm getting better at my comic panels, as I adjust to the vertical style. Before I've always drawn the standard format. It's more than just boxes, I try to keep a variety of sizes. I'm picking up roughly how much 'gutter space' I need per 2-3 panels.etc I'm also improving on choosing colors that fits my love of detailed linework.(edited)

OH! I'm also learning about Clip studio shortcuts, how to use the assets they provide which makes the process, abit easier on me. Things I need to change, is I want to get a good speedy coloring style, without referring to my usual coloring.(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

the more I worked on the comic, the more I feel ambitious in making different angles and perspective. So it's really hitting me out of my comfort zone which is good! lol Though I'm trying to keep in mind of my speed, what I feel like I've improved a bit is trying to keep in mind of paneling and dialogue.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Process! Space and i have definitely figured out the most productive way to produce content at the rate and quality that also provides us with time for our own projects. Comics are a useful tool that helps you discover ways to better organize your creative workflow for sure!

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I think probably scenery. I used to dread drawing inanimate objects but now I feel more confident in filling in a scene & even look forward to it sometimes. Maybe also page composition and paneling but I still have a lot to learn there

eli [a winged tale]

One of the reasons I embarked on the webcomic journey is to push myself to improve not only storytelling but also utilizing art to create a reader experience that would be difficult to replicate with just words. I’d like to think that 9 months into making A Winged Tale, I’ve improved on deciding when is a good opportunity to invest more into backgrounds vs character dynamics and when should be focused more on sequences of panels and composition. While the comic is written in a four panel format, more and more I’m finding areas where the story could be told by breaking those rules (attached pic). It’s a balance and I hope going forward I will improve more in pushing the limits of panels and find ways to express the story in fun and interesting ways.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Wow that's a very good description @eli [a winged tale] I look forward to reading more of your story journey

eli [a winged tale]

Thanks so much Joichi! I’m eager to keep learning~

Capitania do Azar

I'm gonna go with planning and actually getting it done. I'm so much faster because now the process is much more streamlined to me

kayotics

My whole comic was started s an exercise to just get better at comics generally so I’d probably say every part I’ve improved at? The biggest things are probably colors and the upfront planning process

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Ooof hard question. I think my main improvement lies with page and speechballoon layouts and writing natural feeling dialouge. I'd say maybe also character acting?

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I'm slowly learning how to create more engaging comic narrative. I read and research in the polished prem webcomics to see what makes them engaging? Like I'm going to challenge myself by creating a series of short stories with a reoccurring set of characters. Every new comic series I create is an experience, trial and error. Sometimes I skip the writeup and just go in blind, trust my own instincts. I'm glad to reach out and talk about it than in my own head. I hope by this year, I'll have at least 2 chapters of Hybrid Dolls out.(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I've definitely gotten better at planning/ outlining multiple chapters ahead of time. I did not even do this when I was doing the first 10 something chapters. (I did attempt an outline before I began the comic, but the story changed significantly from the outline by the time I started the comic, and I did not try to do it again for a long while.) I can't remember when I started, but I do recall having a lot of trouble the first time I tried to do it. It's gotten a little easier each time, though. In fact, I just spent the past few days outlining the next few very important chapters, de-tangling some big tangles. I'm really glad my outlining (and overall writing) skills had leveled up, because HOO boy, I don't think my 2014-2015 self could have done this!

I also became friends with enviros. I had already become somewhat comfortable drawing perspective when HoK started, but I had a sort of mechanical approach to it, like "oh I need some enviro for these establishing shots, guess I'll draw them." But now I LOVE drawing enviros! (some types anyway...) It's my comfort activity, something I treat myself to after a long day! In the thumbnails for my next few pages, there's a few enviro-heavy panels that I have to remove, because I drew too many of them (and the pacing got too slow as a result). I have to stop myself from drawing too many of these.

My biggest improvement is probably I've come to understand my characters and my themes much better, but that's more of a "I got better at making HoK" than a "I got better at making comics." There's definitely a difference between the two.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

@keii’ii (Heart of Keol) ah I totally understand I tried the outline method before I start but my story changed alot after I drew it. So it start to feel like a waste of time for me, but I'll still write an outline to make sure to plan where my story heads(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah! I needed to draw those first few chapters to understand the direction of my own story.

The drawing part is an essential part of self-reflection, to try to understand what it is that I want out of the story. The answer has always been there in my heart, but I'm not able to see it clearly from the get-go.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I end up breaking scenes and put them in for future episodes, since I want to get a certain flow in the story.

It could be tricky to see what it is you want out of the story until you are in at least 3 chapters in?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I needed way more than 3 chapters -- though granted, my chapters are short, so that could be a part of it

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I see the early first script as testing the water. like a test to figure out the characters personalities. Unless you are bringing in old characters which you knew before?(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Even if the characters have been with you for a while, unless I have made a comic with them, there is a big chance that the characters will completely change, too.

DanitheCarutor

You know, I was thinking about about this, mostly about how I wouldn't have been happy if I was able to finish my comic the day I started. Then I realized I'm happy that I didn't. The first chapter wasn't the best, I was just learning how to coloring a comic, still fleshing out my characters and was still brainstorming small kinks in the story. I also still didn't have as much of an understanding of perspective, or panel and bubble layout. Even though I still have a lot I need to work on, I've gotten a lot better in all those aspects. Even though my use of color is weird, I've definitely gotten much more confident in it, enough so that I experiment and take a lot more risks with style. Even though my panelling can be boring, I have a much better understanding of how I want a page to look. I've improved a lot with my planning as well, like even though my thumbnailing/storyboarding only takes maybe 30, I've learned to step away for a bit if I don't like a layout, or analyzing why I don't like it and brainstorming ways to make it better. If I had magically finished the comic all at once, it would look really bad and may have been less readable.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

That is inspiring to hear about your improvement @DanitheCarutor

Natsu-no-Hikari

Chiming in! Just this week, Miko (my co-creator) and I were discussing how far we've come from when we started our first comic (https://liarsgotoparadise.com/) vs. where we are now. I think there have been a lot of learn experiences, such as art, dialogue, general editing - but especially with pacing and character interaction. We regret that we didn't stop to focus more on that interaction, as we wanted to move ahead in the story...and now we can't change that, except to start now and not allow ourselves to grow impatient. Take our time and enjoy the journey - that's our new motto. There's a time to rush ahead in perilous moments, but there's also definitely a time to catch our breaths and let the characters mingle and speak. It's an improvement that will become more noticeable going forward in Liars and our second comic as well.

[kingofthewilderwest]

it kinda bugs me how they cant make httyd3 longer just so they can emphasize the story in a deeper meaning, like your post abt it being disproportionate. httyd3 had a LOT more plot than httyd2 and we can already see how it has to cramp so much and why that makes D2's pace felt pretty fast. the structure of the story is actually well planned.. perfect, to be exact! but the execution like putting pauses, necessary humor, longer dialogue, is whats needed to make it um, understandable? im not sure..

this isnt meant to judge the movie as bad though! but its a question ive been asking why they cant do it longer, for that sake. is it the budget? was Dean really certain the script is okay? or is it meant to be like this so people can interpret the movie their way? (oof that one is confusing).. i dont know, i want to ask about your thoughts on that >

From this.

It’s an interesting conversation for sure! I believe that THW doesn’t have to be longer to be extremely successful in the ideas it needs to convey! The core ideas being:

Toothless cannot be a wild dragon and strong alpha leader with humans. Other dragons probably deserve the respect of needing wild dragon needs, too.

Humans like Grimmel are extremely dangerous to dragons and will continue to arise, so dragons need to go to an area separate from humans to live in optimal peace.

Hiccup and Toothless’ powerful friendship will separate (insofar as physical location) due to the first two points

I know you’re not the only person I’ve talked to who wanted a longer time because you feel like certain elements were cramped, needed more breathing room, or that dangerous plot points didn’t get enough sense of weight. More time would presumably give that flow and sense of scale and danger. Now, it’s true that more time would give us more content to develop these things. That said, I believe solutions aren’t always “add more.” Creating good art isn’t about adding new things; it’s about knowing when to take away or alter, and how to make every second of your creation count optimally.

I remember when I was doing my music composition degree, my instructors hammered into me what would make a good final piece: the editing process of deleting measures - even measures that were really good! - because they didn’t fit what the final product needed. It’s painful to delete, but ultimately, it’s freeing; instead of making a music piece more cluttered to put all possible good ideas in, I can make it less cluttered, more manageable, more beautiful, more meaningful, and more effective to audiences. A better overall piece isn’t putting in every good idea I have; it’s leaving the piece with the beautiful ideas it needs.

I suggest The Hidden World doesn’t need added materials so much as it needs refining what’s already there.

Budget, production green lighting, and carefulness to the script all seem to have been done. HTTYD 3 was given a longer production time than originally planned. They pushed back the date exactly so they could make their best product. Interviews with people like DeBlois and Spielberg (who read several definitions of the script) talk about how much the script was transformed and bettered through its drafts. They did enough tweaking and care to rework the script. As for budget, the movie was 129 million USD, which sure was the cheapest of the HTTYD trilogy to create, but it’s about on par with what DreamWorks has spent on other movies like Home and Trolls - it’s not like there was skimping - and it’s all about making your money count, which I think this glorious, top notch animation quality film effectively did. So from what I’ve heard, I think production ran fine and we can’t question THW there.

I think most of THW’s problems can be solved simply by tweaking how scenes go down, taking a few small elements out, and adding a few small elements in. It doesn’t need time changes; it needs internal modifications to what’s already there. What I propose wouldn’t change much of the movie’s length - though maybe I we could add 5-8 minutes for things like a longer climax.

1. To Feel Less “Cluttered” or “Rushed”

The movie didn’t feel rushed to me or too cluttered, but it’s cluttered. You’re right. In addition to creating less clutter, my suggested tweaks will clear up time THW can spend elsewhere, streamline THW into fewer palatable essential ideas, and give a slight tone makeover that will add more sense of danger and conflict that THW needs.

Fewer humor side gags with minor characters (and less time spent on them). The gang’s antics are fun additions, yes, but that doesn’t mean they’re central to what the plot needs. Spending too much time with them adds clutter and takes away from plot-central, tone-central material. There’s a huge gaggle of gags in THW, more than any movie needs in a less-than-two-hour-long run time. Do we need all these to give THW its comic relief? Don’t get me wrong - I loved the humor - but time needs to be prioritized, and the movie will be improved once “less is more.”

Less time with Tuffnut’s pep talks. This goes with my first point. This comedic gag was lengthy in particular. It’s in part because it connects to the idea of Hiccstrid marrying, which THW does make more central in its themes. However, I also propose:

Spend less time (or delete) the will-they won’t-they marry Hiccstrid plot. THW intends to parallel Hiccup and Toothless maturing into adulthood, including their romantic connections. However, a will-they won’t-they marry subplot in Hiccstrid isn’t needed to create that parallel. Not to mention: it can be uncomfortable to have this undertone of romance as “required” adulthood maturation, and the fact that Hiccstrid are so close and intimate makes it feel “off” that they’re so uncomfortable talking about marriage. Spend less time here, simply make fans aware they’re going to marry in the future but not today, and return to the main relationships THW needs to pay attention to: that of Hicctooth and Nightlight. 

2. To Make Grimmel a Greater Sense of Threat

One of the central points is that Grimmel is extremely dangerous and represents one of many humans that’ll continue to be a threat to dragons. While Grimmel can be overcome, Hiccup will need to interact with Grimmel in such a way he can understand that dragons and humans cannot coexist in today’s civilization without continuing to risk danger, and that it’s best for everyone to live happily in two separate civilizations. It’s not being defeated by the enemy’s oppression, but taking a brilliant countermeasure to give humans and dragons both a better existence.

Making Grimmel feel like a greater sense of threat, and helping audience members understand what Grimmel represents overarchingly of humanity’s current antagonistic state, will help us and Hiccup process why a separation is best. This can be done by:

Show Grimmel’s impact on human society. All we’d have to do is change what his base looks like: it could be located in an area taken over from another human civilization, showing his army’s power and place in this world over humans.

Greater weight placed on Berk’s exodus. The Hooligans lost their home, but it’s played too lightly. It’s not written optimally as an emotionally impacting or destabilizing moment, which decreases the sense of threat Grimmel has. Instead of having the Hooligans excited to find New Berk, show them grieving. They can butt against Hiccup’s ideas of finding the Hidden World, but instead in a way where they’re frustrated at his naive solution and hurt at what they left behind. This isn’t adding time to THW; this is tweaking phraseology and presenting an event differently.

Change how Berk is abandoned. To make the attack feel more dire, threatening, either: 1. Have the Hooligans more reluctant and grumpy to leave in the town meeting, and not play the leaving scene so lightly, or 2. Have Grimmel chase them out of Berk so they have to flee then and there. This might even reduce time! 

Show Grimmel’s power over dragons. We could have a few-second-long flashback of him standing over a field of dead Night Fury bodies, or have his place cloaked in dragon skins or skulls. 

Show Grimmel’s power as a warlord. Grimmel acts in almost a solo fashion, despite cooperating with warlords and having an army. It doesn’t give us a good sense of scale. Show his interactions better with the whole of his forces to make him feel more dangerous, and for humanity as a whole to feel more like a threat against dragons. For example, in the scenes where he’s trying to trap the dragon riders, show him commanding more people.

Show Grimmel’s impact on the dragon (and/or human worlds) through landscape. What if, as the Hairy Hooligans try to find a new place to stay, they fly over several islands that have been destroyed by Grimmel’s forces? Either human civilizations, or homes once havens to dragons, with characters making comment they “hope” people got away. And what if, when Grimmel takes their dragons near the end of THW, it’s again through more violence and a raid and fire and destruction? 

Conversations more clearly talk about Grimmel’s dangers over dragons and humans, and how he’s one of many people that’ll arise. This idea is embedded in THW dialogue, but not clearly enough to fully grasp its weight, especially not in the sense we see characters grasp this. Have Hiccup and Astrid and Valka or something talk about how widely destructive Grimmel is, how even once he’s gone another man like him will take his place, and that while they may continue to fight and win for human and dragonkind, it’s ultimately not the right move to make for everyone to live safest and alive. A conversation laying this out makes a world of difference in our understanding of what dangers are going down and why we need to come to the solution THW concludes with. Again, this isn’t adding time; it’s changing phraseology. 

Add a few minutes to the climax. Make the final fight with Grimmel obviously the final fight, the threat bigger, the action more intense.

Perhaps show that Berk’s done good work changing the world by their choices. Even though Berk ultimately decides to let the dragons go, they are meant to be the voice of peace that changes their world. The good guys can’t resign to letting themselves live under the thumb of bad guys’ choices. Show that they’ve made a difference - Grimmel and his armies are gone and the world is regrowing (no more torched landscape, if we add that element in) - but that it’s still going to help their world by letting dragons go, too… for this generation, at least.

3. To Make Hiccup and Toothless’ Parting Jive Better

Hiccup and Toothless separate out of need - they can’t live in the same place for the better of both their kinds. However, since the movie spends so much time on Toothless chasing after the Light Fury, we don’t get that full sense of need. I propose:

Open THW with a clear Hicctooth sappy bonding moment. We need things like “Forbidden Friendship” and “Where No One Goes” to feel the power of Hicctooth’s love. Give us that starting sense in THW of how close they are before adding in the complications. It can even be done by tweaking how the opening fight scene goes down.

Show dragons profiting by living with humans, but it also being Complicated with their wild side. We need to acknowledge that the relationship between humans and dragons has done the dragons good, too! Otherwise it might feel incongruous with the rest of the franchise.

Show dragons being unfit in the urban area through their own restlessness. The movie tries to show this with Moosie Boi being too big for Berk, and Berk being so crowded with dragons Gobber finds the soup unsanitary. But if we see Stormfly restless and want to leave for the Hidden World, too, wouldn’t this say something more about where dragons are pulled to and belong?

Less time spent on Toothless investigating the Night Fury. You can’t cut this down too much or we’ll feel like rushing, but since THW focuses so much on just Toothless and the Light Fury’s connection rather than an overarching problem for dragons, it’s hard to feel the full-scale issues of the problem. Making it just him and her feels more like a hook up love story than “dragons and humans are incompatible for their needs.”

Change Toothless’ body language. Show more emotional division in Toothless about his conflicting options. Show him hesitant to leave Hiccup and the two interact over that. Show him lonely away from his kind when with Hooligans. Show him feeling that loneliness met - that deep emotional need of being with his own species - when he’d thought was lost to him (rather than focusing on it being a romantic hookup interest). This doesn’t take more time; it tweaks what was already given on screen.

Change Toothless’ emotions with the Light Fury to feel more like loneliness being met than horny boi practicing kissing with a rock. This does a better job of showing that Toothless has a deep need that needs to be met as a wild animal and as a social draconic species.

Change conversations Hiccup has with humans about Toothless’ struggle. Maybe have Hiccup processing less with people and more by himself or with Toothless. Don’t write the conversations with people be about “Toothless has a girlfriend” and “of course he left.” Discuss instead how Night Furies are social creatures and Toothless hasn’t been with his kind in six years - that’s a huge hole in his heart being filled. Validate the deep connection Hiccup and Toothless have, while simultaneously acknowledging the struggle of this moment now. The movie shows that the Light Fury can never be domesticated, so I think that’s fine, but maybe one line from Astrid saying, “I don’t think she’ll come to live with us,” would be enough to help other audience members pick that up too.

More time spent on all dragons being in danger, and Toothless as an alpha unable to protect them with Hairy Hooligans. The story doesn’t show Toothless being much of an alpha - intentional - until he reaches the Hidden World and it clicks. But I suggest it’d be more effective to pull this out more than having an issue with Moose Boi taking up too much space in Berk, and Berk being so crowded Gobber has a dragon in his soup.

Put more of a deal on Toothless being an alpha. You can say that Toothless didn’t understand or use his role as alpha when with humans, but I think showing more sense of conflict, and of an alpha needing to be wild to protect his own, would be useful. Make this an issue for all dragons. The alpha status being used as a blackmail device against Toothless to keep the Light Fury alive could be replaced with us seeing the full species of dragonkind being unable to be protected by an alpha apart from his own people. More needs to be done than dragons bowing to him in one scene to understand what the alpha does for his society.

Show Toothless with more Light Furies. The Light Fury being his singular focus is great. But what about, in the Hidden World, Hiccup and Astrid watch Toothless interacting with a whole group of Night Furies, and he’s clearly in a situation that was Made For Him?

THW already has great content in there - Toothless and the Light Fury interacting, Hiccup crying when he realizes Toothless is fit in the Hidden World, Hiccup freaking out and Astrid comforting him when he feels a low, and Hiccup and Toothless parting ways touchingly at the end.

With these proposed tweaks, we get Toothless and Hiccup’s relationship being addressed deeply from the angle of both friends. We understand what both Toothless and Hiccup emotionally feel, and palatably sense how both love the other. We get a sense that Toothless is attracted to the Light Fury and might want to mate, but that she’s also calling him into a wild life and reminding him that he’s been alone, separated from his kind. We get a sense that it’s not just Toothless, but all dragons who might be called back to the Hidden World. We get a sense that it’s not just Toothless, but his whole role as alpha affecting the entirety of dragonkind.

And once we add in a greater sense of Grimmel being dangerous, and that more humans like him will continue to rise up, we can understand why Berk would release all their dragons. It’s not that dragons hate living with humans - THW can make that clear - and it’s not that dragons haven’t been profited by living with humans. But in the current call, the current situation, it’s best to go to the Hidden World.

I’m mostly tweaking how scenes go down, changing lines and reactions rather than adding material. Feel free to propose a longer movie! For me, THW already has enough space to share its message. Maybe it needed to be a few minutes longer, but I suppose my own sense is that they had enough time to budget in this material, make a smooth-flowing movie with all the material they needed to present, and come away with an astounding storyline.

Like you, this isn’t meant to judge the movie as bad! It isn’t bad! It’s downright wonderful in many aspects. I’m so happy I’ve seen it and can scream over it! Simply, if I were in charge of tweaking the script, these are the first alterations I’d make, and I think it would make THW even better.

[tumblunni]

Also HELL YES FOR CASUAL PLAYER LOVE

Im so happy to hear that Let's Go is indeed INTENTIONALLY designed to be "more casual" and everything these super anti-casual conpetitive players are complaining about was intentionalky put in there cos the developers legit think its better. THANK YOU!

i dunno man it just seems like we NEVER heae about the developers doing anything for the fans unless its enablibg competitive play or iv breeding or whatever. Like those are the only definitions of "fans" that interviewers seem to care about. And Its hard to know what the developers really think when the questions that are asked leave out a huge componant of the fanbase, yknow?

And uhh.. I mean its just good to specificially know that theyre okay with casual fans existing, like not just "its for kids" but "hey you are not bad if you are an adult who also enjoys the game for its intended appeal points and not for a huge mega complicated mathematical metagame people made up to be 'more mature'". I was really surprised to see that written interview with masuda specifically mentioning IV breeding as the place where conpetitive goes too far and makes the game not fun anymore. "Pokemon wasn't meant to be a game about hatching eggs and nothing else." Like.. Playing competitively itself is not bad, i dont wanna sound like i hate hardcore fans and im a big ol jerk. I admire the dedication because it all seems so super unattainable and mathematically magical to me! Im not into that stuff but i can admire that you have to be a damn genius to achieve all that stuff. BUT i also get what he's saying. Because it sucks when you HAVE to be a damn genius to EVEN START PLAYING! Whenever high level competitive strats become the goddamn baseline it makes competitive completely inaccessable to everyone except the most hardcore of the hardcore, and its like damn man how do you even become that if you have no way to start practising? Iv breeding is so INSANE in retrospect! Like when you think about it, its wild that people even cracked the code for how to game the system and get the highest possible randomized stats for every ridiculously minor thing. Like how the fuck did they even figure out any of this?? And then all the further madness into figuring out how to attain it and how to raise odds of shinys and hidden abilities and how they keep figuring out new ways to do it with every new system each game brings out. And then people will spend friggin LITERAL DAYS OF REAL TIME running up and down the same road in the game, hatching thousands of eggs just to get the one mathematically superior pokemon from a confluence of random events. And this is treated as fuckin REQUIRED to play the game! You can't touch competitive if you dont do it. And these bad sorts of competitive players will try and force this requirement onto other non-competitive parts of the game, and shame casual players for not doing it even though its literally not what they want to play the game for.

Seriously, man! Individual values were just designed to make individual pokemon more random, so the play experience would seem more unique to each run. It was literally invented for a "casual" reason! It just really sucks that they implimented it in a way that had an objective "best" value to get, so people ignored the whole point of "adding personality" and just wanted that one. Tho i mean at least they patched out the early issue where gender and shinyness were linked to these values so you couldnt get certain types of pokemon as the "best" version and it was even more limiting. Glad that GSC didnt have online metagame yet, lol! (Tho it makes it possible for people to more easily predict which pokenon will become Shiny when transferred from rby to gsc, which is neat.)

ANYWAY WHERE WAS I

Oh yeah! I appreciate that each generation of games lately has made it easier to see your IVs and EVs and to get them to their "best" versions, with even the FUCK YEAH feature pf being able to "fix" bad IVs on level 100 pokemon. I carried my Sneasel named Reaper since RSE and he's been completely unuseable for so long and bottlecaps fixed that! Kid me just played the game like he was my starter and i loved him. I didnt know about IVs or EVs, so i took this terribly-statted dude with a bad ability and made him fight all the wrong pokemon because he is my best friend and he needs to win every gym battle and i will buy him lemonades afterward. Also he wore the Blackglasses item forever cos i thougjt itd be cool if you could put accessories on your pokemon. So yeah i did Everything Wrong and thus all the pokemon i actually cared about were made weak and useless by my love and i had to spend 48 hours running down a stupid road to hatch and abandon 1400 new ones just to get one that was "useable". Thanks to bottlecaps, this is no more! Decade old weasel pals can be revived! Tho still it sucks that i hit level 100 before this mon's evolution came out. Alas!

BUT

Like.. Even tho now its slightly less hard to make a "perfect" pokemon its still tedious as hell and really takes you out of the moment and you have to already know beforehand that its necessary. Kids are just gonna blunder in and not even know why they keep losing due to no fault of their own. Adults are gonna also do that. Seriously this isnt a "kiddy fans vs mature fans" or "non fans versus FANS" thing, this is just "fans who have one very specific skill for memorizing a bunch of numbers and steps and enduring hours of boredom doing it vs..people who think that kinda ruins the game". And even if nintendo fully streamlined the process into sonething easy, itd still feel like an unnecessary roadblock in the way of just getting to play the damn game. We really need to add some sort of hardcore/casual or iv breeding/no iv breeding thing to league divisions, as well as the tier lists. This is why im so hyped for the current "Spooky Cup", since it actually seems like a "just for fun" multiplayer experience, and its kinda dumb that we have to rely on nintendo actually programming limitations into a tournement cos the players refuse to allow anyone to just do it normally. I did a big whoop at "no mega stones" and "everyone gets a participation prize even if they lose"! And the limitations being a random event based thing rather than a skill cap! Yay ghost types!! Reminds me of the baby pokemon only tourneys in the n64 games. That was a kind of hardcore challenge that had a bit of creativity to it!

So anyway anyway what i'm getting at...

I'm just happy that the devs are saying "yes this is a casual game with more of what casual players want, and less of those hardcore limitations" and THATS NOT MEANT TO BE A NEGATIVE!! Actual developers sitting on a couch hugging giant pikachu plushies and saying this game is for people who just want a fun game about..well, hugging pikachus! They changed the way you catch pokemon because they wanted it to be more fun. They brought back following pokemon because fun. You get all these new features for your starter because they wanted you to really feel like a kid going on their first pokemon adventure and sharing all these special moments with pikachu! They talked about how the art style was decided upon because it was the closest to "how you imagined it in your head when you played pokemon yellow", and "if it was photorealistic it just wouldnt feel right". They picked eevee for the second option because they actually paid attention to the fans and which pokemon was the second most popular and had a similar "both cute and cool" appeal with all audiences. And they put the most effort into the visuals and the cuteness and making everything just feel like a good and fun adventure that recaptures everything you wanted as a kid playing the first game.

And they just act so unapologetically HAPPY about all these parts of the game! These are their favourite parts! They're the goddamn DEVELOPERS and even they say that they prefer the story and the characters and the relaxing childlike whimsy to the concept of refining gameplay to a ridiculous hardcore perfection and throwing out everything else in pursuit of that. And man, seeing them hugging the big pika and eev plushies in EVERY PROMOTIONAL VIDEO and just enjoying playing their own game so much!! And babbling on about dressing up your pokemon!!

God its just SO GOOD to see this as a fan who's been here since the very beginnibg and is starting to feel quite self concious about being an adult fan who isnt doing it "properly". Like man the pressure of hardcore competotive being the "only right way" started even when i was just 11, like seriously THE AGE THE ACTUAL TRAINERS ARE IN THE GODDAMN GAME. Before you even hit your teens you already got stuck up older kids telling you you were too old to just enjoy a game cos you enjoyed the damn game, noooo you have to make it as unfun as possible and only derive enjoyment from defeating other people. It took me until ORAS to actually even be able to try competitive at all, i found it so overwhelming until they added other methods to EV train. And even then i still felt like the blandness of the preparation outweighed any fun of playing these "higher level" battles. Like sure maybe some people like that stuff but it felt so dissappointing after all these years of being pressured to try it...

Sometimes its just good to enjoy a game cos you legit like the world and characters. Sometimes its just really validating to see the developers talking about enjoying making those things, cos it gives you permission to be less embarrassed about it. Sometimes its good to also see them hugging a hundred dollar giant pikachu while you hug your hundred dollar giant mimikyu. Cos seriously what is the point of being an adult if youre not allowed to buy these adult sized plushies? What kid could ever afford those! Im not letting my childhood dream pass me by just because ~maturity~ when im finally able to slap a fat wad of cash on the table and yell GIVE ME THE BIGGEST CHU

I will embrace all my pure childhood love and enjoy this game of just huggins and nothing else! And i really like this concept for the series, if they continue doing Let's Go as a spinoff so we'd have a set of games appealing to each of the casual and hardcore demographics. I always feel bad complaining about hardcore when really my actual opinion on it is just "its not for me" and im actually only complaining about the rude fans who tell me im not a real fan unless i like their genre of stuff. Dude i was three years old when pokemon came out, i think ive earned my right by seniority to hug a plushie or two! So itd be awesome if hardcore doods could get their super hardcore game too, and we could just argue less cos we'd each be able to enjoy what we enjoy. Tho i mean the main series games already have a pretty clear divide between story/fun being the main game and hardcore competitive being a postgame thing. And yet we still get all this fandom fightibg over "ignore the actual 90% of the game, skip the plotline and only play competitive" apparantly being the "real" way to play it. Like man im worried that attitude is still gonna stick arpund even if they do give us separate games appealing to each side of the fandom?

EHHH WHATEVER! Im just gonna sit here in my corner of casual hugs and work on my self confidence to be able to stop feeling bad about not being someone else's idea of a "real" fan. If real fans can't have pikachu in a little hat, then that is not the life i wanna lead!

LITTLE GODDAMN HAT, MY GUY

[comicteaparty]

August 17th-August 23rd, 2019 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from August 17th, 2019 to August 23rd, 2019.  The chat focused on the following question:

How do you handle foreshadowing for future events/reveals in your story?

AntiBunny

In AntiBunny http://antibunny.net/ I cheat a little on foreshadowing. Since stories tend to change as I develop them I can't always be sure that things will play out as planned. That's why I'm vague when I foreshadow things, so that they can be interpreted in multiple ways. On the one hand giving some foreshadowing forces me to keep the story from going too far off the rails, and on the other being vague enough gives me flexibility to change my mind. One particular example is between Nailbat (a prequel) and Gritty City Stories (the main story), two characters use the same phrase "you have such a linear view of history," for the big reveal at the end of Nailbat, that these two are actually the same person. I dropped additional foreshadowing mid way through Nailbat stating that the cloak of shadows is a mystical artifact, implying that one character is wearing something that's hiding his true identity.

Bits of foeshadowing that some people can probably piece together already, but hasn't totally paid off yet is the repeated references to 50 years ago. A more vague one that won't pay off for quite a long time is the phrase "my real enemies are still very far away."

When I did that first one I wasn't entirely sure I wanted these two to become the same character, but since I was running both stories side by side at the time, it was an easy reference to throw in. If I decided against it, it's just a nod to their similarities. Since I ran with that idea it paid off big.

50 years ago has been concrete in my plan from page 1 though, so no need to be vague there.

Ultimately I'd say my approach to foreshadowing is to be vague enough to not write yourself into a corner, but be willing to follow through on it. An obvious foreshadowing needs to pay off. By staying loose with it you can make changes and still get some pay off with it. Be specific only when you have a foregone conclusion and you want to make sure you can stick to it.

HiddenElephant

I suspect I don't do it well for The Wide Ocean. http://thewideocean.thecomicseries.com/ It's a bit of a writing problem that I have; I'm scared to give too much away and end up not saying enough. There are panels where I flat-out announce what's coming next. I can recall 1 specific panel about page 40 that flat-out said, there's zombies in the sand in the ocean, but other than that? You're going to need to pay attention. At least 1 person has figured out something major to one of the characters that I've not yet revealed (and don't know how to reveal).

authorloremipsum

http://signsofthreecomic.webcomic.ws/comics/ For Signs of Three, since the stories are mysteries, I have to make sure all the clues (aka the foreshadowing) are placed in plain view of the readers. I want them to figure it out, to make guesses and such before the reveal. A plot twist should surprise but not confuse or betray your reader.

But foreshadowing is one reason I see people with No outlines and get worried

snuffysam

So, here’s the thing. I write... weird. I start with the themes of my story, then write a synopsis of each book & any other major events I can think of. I spend my drawing time for each book writing out the script for the next book and making a detailed outline for the book after that. So as a result of that process, I have a lot of room to reference future events without worry that I’m writing myself into a corner. Some things I’d call more “teases” than foreshadowing. Like how there are minor or background characters in books 1 & 2 who become important in books 3-5. Or how the cover pages for book 2 spell out “NOTHING”. But there are other things I’d definitely put under the foreshadowing umbrella. Like all the hints in Book 1 towards the plague not being natural. Or this line from Lord Ro: http://sgkdr.thecomicseries.com/comics/301/ IMO, I think if your comic has any twists in it, you should make a habit of foreshadowing them ahead of time. It encourages re-reading, and helps keep your audience from feeling like you pulled the rug out from under them.

Respheal

In OSP's Trope Talks video on plot twists, they categorize plots twists as being either retroactive (revealing information that changes the story up to that point) and trajectory (moving the story in an unexpected direction). The majority of Galebound's (http://www.galebound.com/) reveals and twists are retroactive. To really make the retroactive twists work, I needed to know where the story is going so I could pepper in clues to future twists nice and early without needing to retcon things. I try to make every page either have something that either gives a little more information about the world or characters, OR something that once you know the truth changes. So basically everything is revealing the truth of the retroactive twists, or setting up for a new reveal that makes the retroactive twist work. It kinda turns into the cyclical beast of foreshadowing. Some early examples--Din and Pascals's mysterious obedience throughout the first three chapters is revealed in chapter four to be magical compulsion, which then changes the tone of the first three chapters a bit when you realize Din wasn't kidding when he said he had no choice. And then you learn Din is a straight up murderer, making his interactions with Conan more...understandable? I've also got stuff scattered in that won't pay off until the literal last page, but despite that last page being hundreds of pages away the seeds have been planted.

ErinPtah (Leif & Thorn | BICP)

In But I'm A Cat Person (http://bicatperson.com/), I either did too much foreshadowing, or the twists weren't bizarre enough...there are a few things I wanted to be a source of tension and mystery, where reader comments just went "oh, of course the answer is X" (and were right).

They didn't guess everything, but there were a few dramatic character-to-character reveals where I had to think "gotta make this look really cool, because the information isn't going to wow readers -- it's all on the presentation."

LadyLazuli

In Phantomarine (http://www.phantomarine.com/) I've already dropped a lot of hints as to where this story is going, but they're mixed in with some big, shiny red herrings to throw off my readers. I don't want to (and honestly can't) hide every secret from my audience (I want them to solve SOME things and have fun doing it!), so I'm allowing some details to show more clearly than others. For example, I'm not a fan of twist villains - the character I'm currently working with the most is definitely a villain, and I don't want to hide that. I want the audience to know it, and enjoy her villainy along the way! But the big question becomes WHY and HOW she's a villain. And that's a whole other onion layer to play with.

But amidst all the fun mini-secrets, there is a single secret in the story that I want no one to predict until the last moment. Not a soul. It will probably happen, just because I A) trust that my readers are smart! and B) I don't trust myself to hide it properly ... but I want to try and conceal it as much as possible. If my other secrets fail to be hidden, I want to put all the effort into concealing this one. All in all, my reveals are the driving reason I'm making this story. As soon as I imagine drawing them, my motivation increases tenfold!

The Q

That's the whole thing about stories online, right? You want a readership, you want them engaged, and you want them to try and figure out your twists! At the same time, you want to surprise them and make some amazing surprises for them! I think there's a few different ways of handling readers guessing your twists... LOST and Gravity Falls being good examples of two different approaches.

Desnik

I'm actually having a lot of trouble with http://ask-a-warlock.tumblr.com/ and foreshadowing, I guess because a lot of executive dysfunction in settling on one plot point or another. I usually don't notice until I bring the script in to my writing group. There's all this cool stuff I want to include but I have to admit that I'm prone to overloading with foreshadowing to the point that the plot seems to stop happening

Jonny Aleksey

I've done a lot of hinting at characters in J-Man. Particularly with the Big-Man and Mr. Stone (main villains), Unknown Man (who's helped him0, and Lady M (who'll be the main antagonist of the next issue). I put in some mysteries about J-Man's parents in the prequel comic I did a while back. I see myself more putting in mysteries then foreshadowing because it gives me a bit more freedom to change and mold things when I actually do get to them. Tho I do have solid ideas for how certain important things will play out.(edited)

Steph (@grandpaseawitch)

http://oldmanandtheseawitch.tumblr.com/ already has foreshadowing up the wazoo. Every chapter art is foreshadowing something or contains a secret. I hid secrets in almost every page. :>(edited)

The Q

Oh MAN, I gotta read this!

And for me; foreshadowing is everything. I work really hard to use every element of the story and have as little unused setups as possible. Working on an epic fantasy, as I do right now (and -can't wait- to show), it gets even trickier, and even more important, to try and streamline what you set up, vs what you pay off later in the story.

Jurinova

In my comic (https://tapas.io/series/hiadw) I try my best to foreshadow without making it too obvious. I drop hints or hide them in plain sight, so people can notice them if they pay attention but it's not something that instantly draws attention. For me good foreshadowing is something that makes people go "Oh, of course! That's what that was about!" when they reach the point that was foreshadowed and I think at least a few times I've succeeded so far. I also tend to do a lot of little visual cues that connect certain characters or plot points, for example two characters do the same thing when they get nervous or anxious. They are definitely quite subtle but when viewing the comic as a whole they become more obvious. Since I put a lot foreshadowing into the comic it's natural that some of them go unnoticed but I'm hopeful that if someone re-reads they might pick up on them. I mean I do have hints already in place for the final chapter, so it's gonna take a while for those to be noticed.

authorloremipsum

Coming back again, to comment on two things. 1. Chapter covers or story covers that have foreshadowing in them are my FAVORITE. if the symbolism tells us what will happen in the story before it's even begun, I get so excited. 2. My favorite kind of foreshadowing in normal books is when a specific detail is pointed out in the environment that comes into play later. Excuse the violent example, but one book specifically described a hotel having razors in the bathroom, which later turned out to be a very very bad thing. In a comic, you'd probably do this with a close up on some details in an environment.

The Q

I hadn't even thought about the chapter cover thing, but I LOVE THAT!