#invested in lwj than lwj is in him

[llycaons]

I honestly prefer reading in lwj's pov because he loves wwx and finds him very attractive obviously but he's less likely to just talk about what a perfect specimen of masculinity his partner is which is extremely uninteresting to me like it just makes him sound so bland

[ahxiang]

y'all, please. just look at the submission reasoning. i love lwj so much, but sang woo is THE autistic bl character!! and he has so much swag!! and he's practically canonically autistic!!

Final Round: Chu Sangwoo (Semantic Error) vs Lan Zhan (The Untamed)

[Submitted Reasons Under Cut]

Chu Sangwoo: "He's meticulously organized, hates a specific color (red), gets upset when his routine is interrupted, gets compared to computers and robots constantly, has difficulty conveying his true emotions/feelings, can be blunt, is often called antisocial and misses numerous social cues, has rules he's made for himself and faces difficulty when he realizes those rules don't always hold up, comfort item/clothing (wearing his hat, closet full of flannels), prefers to be warned before certain things occur (physical touch, changes in plans), has to practice the delivery of certain thoughts so he doesn't come off as insincere or be misinterpreted, has numerous systems for how to accomplish tasks, cannot work in an environment that is uncomfortable or has distractions (cleaning the studio, telling Choi Yoona to use headphones), special interest (programming, comparing life to processing data and eliminating problems so that things run smoothly), difficulty forming friendships and other relationships, dismisses things that don't follow his line of logic/rules, among all of these traits and more he pulls a bad bitch like Jang Jaeyoung by being exactly himself and any changes he makes are not forced upon him but rather natural and organic occurrences throughout the narrative despite his personal confusion toward said changes."

Lan Zhan: "This man memorized all of the like 3,000 Lan rules, likes order and clear direction, doesn’t know how to talk to peers, struggles with expressing emotions"

[runespoor7]

Jiang Cheng brings back WWX to LP after his resurrection because LWJ wasn't around

Five Fun Facts About The Fic I Might Write About It, This Is A Slowburn(?) Version, For Other Versions Ask Again:

WWX insists that he's not himself far past the point of it being sensible. The thing is, it's not the first time JC decided some random demonic cultivator was WWX and dragged him home to demande apologies and play house? Last time was over half a decade ago, so not everyone in the sect knows, but those who remember are pretty wary about it, especially because of what it means about JC's mental state. Is Sect Leader getting worse again? They're also very wary of WWX, some of them openly contemptuous - WWX has the feeling that if it weren't for JC's protection he would be dead - and some of them almost pitying. I think he overhears them talk and that's how he pieces together the backstory, and also learns that the demonic cultivator whom JC is convinced are WWX and that he treats as such don't... end well. Sect Leader takes the "betrayal" badly.

WWX realizes that YMJ doesn't have a second in command. the sect has a person who performs the tasks associated with the job, but JC doesn't have a "second-in-command", never did. it just stuck that way. it sure doesn't mean anything. probably. how weird of JC though.

the Ghost General intrudes on Lotus Pier. There's a fight, JC tries to take down WN, WWX orders WN away from JC, JC freaks out. WWX keeps swearing up and down he's not WWX, honest!!! but... on the other hand... the Ghost General recognizes him as its his master... this is what breaks JC's hopes, finally, and also WWX's heart. You get JC crying as he asks WWX "are you really not him?" and WWX doing the equivalent of Cyrano's "No, my sweet love, I never loved you!" but for who he is, with less clear-cut emotional consequences than in the play (this is because WWX is not dying and thus more invested in keeping the lie up and JC is way less certain that WWX cares about him than Roxane did about Cyrano). They sort of compromise on the understanding that "MXY" is kinda-sorta WWX, but without most of WWX's memories. (WWX is telling himself that's not what he wanted but in fact he's much more comfortable/confident with himself and being in YMJ afterwards!) this is probably when WWX realizes that while his room may not exist anymore, his things are in JC's room.

JC struggles with this WWX being an innocent lamb who has no memory of doing anything wrong in his life ever. He should've expected it. How convenient. But, y'know, a WWX is a WWX, and this also extremely conveniently lets JC off the hook of this pesky "remember how he orphaned your nephew?" thing! It's mostly JC's own guilt now. Mostly. He's not going to do anything against WWX even if it wasn't anyway. Also it's. terrifying. Because WWX has no memory of him, but WWX is around, and also there isn't anyone to judge JC for wanting-- ANYWAY.

They end up having to leave Lotus Pier and catch up with the main plot when WWX gets a spider sense that WN is in trouble. There are no words to explain how little JC likes 1)that the Ghost General is still a thing, 2)that the Ghost General is still a thing when it comes to WWX, 3)that WWX is planning on leaving LP to help WN, so he comes with. WWX tries to convince him not to, but surprises himself by accepting JC's help when JC insists in a clipped tone. The trouble that WN got in also involves JL being in danger. This is my fic so it would turn out that WN tried to protect JL before WWX and JC caught up. Possibly JL and WN have been getting in plot-relevant shenanigans offscreen for a while now, and there's definitely a fic there, what with WN thinking A-Yuan is dead and projecting on JL and JL getting conflicted feelings about the person/thing that killed his father, but that's not the focus in this story. At some point - because by now he's pretty certain JC will not either kill him or reject him - WWX "admits" that his memory has been returning. Not all of it, but enough. If we're all very very lucky JL has been in sufficient danger that JC can lose his head a little and kiss WWX for saving JL's life, or something along these lines. If we're not lucky that part happens beyond the scope of these five things.

[purgatoryandme]

Dowry AU

Listen. Listen. One of the things I love most in MDZS is the near-inevitability of everything that happened in the story pre-resurrection, and the way in which it shows how difficult it is to escape the cycle of societal oppression. However! I also love to think about what actions any of the characters would take given the chance to try again...and also how that would screw things up in a whole new way. And what would screw things up the least, y'know? It got me thinking about key moments that WWX would say things went wrong, based on his own regrets. And that got me thinking about his relationship with the Jiang sect and Yanli and how much of the Sunshot campaign's struggles hinged on the wishy washy support of the Jin sect. And THAT made me go: Huh. The first big political screw up for WWX was punching Jin Zixuan in the face, causing the Jiang sect to break the engagement and also getting WWX kicked out of Cloud Recesses. If WWX's soul were to be sent back to any point based on his regrets, based on his desire to atone, his wish to fix things in a way that wouldn't lose the war (because there would be no stopping the Wen sect from starting a war), what if he landed on that day? How could he deal with JZX disparaging Yanli and damaging her reputation in the marriage market without causing his sect to lose face? While giving Yanli the chance to still marry whomever she wants? But maintaining the chance for the Jiang sect to gain political capital and maybe, just maybe, give it the kind of social protection that had Cloud Recesses burn without the kind of slaughter Lotus Pier experience? What social capital does he have as the head disciple and the son of a servant? And he has this horrible epiphany: he can't the Jin want to join the war, just like he can't make JZX realize what a horrible mistake he's making with Yanli. But he can make it shameful for them to avoid it - the war and the engagement - in a single stroke. He can make Yanli more marriageable. He can give the Jiang sect leverage by making Yanli more marriageable. He can do that because he's the son of a servant. WWX declares to JZX that, since he's damaged Yanli's marriageability, WWX is submitting himself as part of her dowry. To prove what a valuable investment he is, any and all suitors can submit a person to dual him once. If he beats a sect's own disciples, it'll only continue to increase the perceived value of Yunmeng Jiang's teachings. He'll even accept any and all challenges that come his way once. Of course, his sect leader will have to approve. But while they wait for that message to make its way to Yunmeng, hey JZX: fight me. If you're worth more than what Yanli is bringing into this marriage, you should be able to win. If you can't, you need to apologize and admit that she has value on the market, engagement or none. The implications are delicious. Madam Yu can finally get rid of WWX! LWJ will have the emotional crisis of a lifetime! WWX won't be able to marry for love anymore! Yanli finally has an acceptable sociopolitical reason to defend WWX in public! Sects will have vested political interest in accessing her AND WWX through improved relations with the Jiang!! LWJ & Jiang Cheng will cry SO MUCH!

[whumpbby]

I think people don’t understand why WWX saved the Wen remnants. I don’t think he would have stepped up to defend them had WQ and WN not helped him give his core to JC. I think he might have felt uncomfortable with the way the Wen’s were treated but he would not have stuck his neck out for them if he didn’t feel indebted to WQ. I think he grew to care for them in the time he was with them, but he didn’t save them because it was a noble thing to do. He was quite happy to murder and torture any Wen’s he came across during the war, and I see people claim it’s different in a war but I’m of the opinion that torture is bad no matter what circumstances it happens under. I wouldn’t feel the need to harp on this if people didn’t try and use this as another stone to hang on JC’s neck.

Okay, this is going to be long and rambling, and I apologise for that.

I think the whole thing with the Wen Remnants was a conclusion of a bunch of issues coming together that parts of the fandom looking for a clean distribution of blame are not willing/eager to admit. And how could they? This is not a problem with a simple answer.

But, in the simplest way I can look at the situation, would Wei Wuxian have cared for their fates if the core transfer didn't happen?

Yes, I think he would, for the reasons below:

Before Wen Qing performed the op, Wei Wuxian befriended Wen Ning.

Wei Wuxian was always a bit feral about the people he liked.

Wei Wuxian is a compassionate and righteous person with high moral standards. It’s just the foresight and empathy that he lacks.

So, if the core transfer didn't take place – but everything else went as it did? Wei Wuxian would still rage at the injustice done to his friend. If he was smacked in the face with what was done to the Wen Remnants, he would still probably rush into trying to rip Jin sect a new one over the inhuman treatment of the prisoners. Anyone with their morals intact would. It’s just that no one else from the main cast had the ability to act on their morals at that point in time. (and that’s another discussion right there).

That was kinda the point of Wei Wuxian befriending WN in the novel, imho - it prepared him (and us) to see the Wen as something else than just the enemies, to see that not everyone is the same under one sect banner. It’s not an accident JC was unconscious for the 99% of their stay in the Yiling Office. WWX was the only one who couldn’t ignore the things done by the Jin with clear conscience, because he was already personally invested.

Concerning his wartime madness - I'm going to risk saying that this isn't just 'war is different'. What happened to him wasn't just joining the war effort. Wei Wuxian was taking revenge for what was done to his home, his brother, himself. He was cruel and heartless, and he was absolutely consumed by his trauma. But that wasn't him. Neither him nor Jiang Cheng were themselves while the Sunshot was ongoing - that's why, while I find WWX's cruelty and JC's acceptance of it horrifying, I don't hold it against them later in life. I don't think anyone would go through what they went through and manage to hold on to their morals for a long time afterwards.

I understand this may not be the answer you are after, but it's hard for me to speculate that would happen if the core transfer didn't take place - because this is the central point of the story. Nothing would happen if it didn't take place. I'd say that Wanxian wouldn't happen if not for the core transfer - LWJ would forever suffer his blue balls in dignified silence and WWX would live busy with his sect, never able to clarify what his weird teenage feelings about LWJ were. Now, concerning the way Wen Remnants are treated as a got'cha card against one or other character? Yeah, that is annoying. I also think parts of the fandom put a bit too much worth on the whole Debt idea. WWX had a Debt towards WQ. He had a Debt towards the Jiang. JC had a Debt towards WQ and WN for saving him. WQ had a Debt towards JC for not arresting her. WN had a Debt towards WWX for reviving him… etc, etc. Trying to figure out whose Debt is bigger and more important, as if that gives them the freedom to ignore context.

Life doesn't really work like that, no one is keeping the score, and grinding this story down to something so simplistic kinda takes away from it. The novel is about a complex net of human relationships that result in no clear answers and no easy solutions. We get to experience it thought the limited pov of the protagonist, but the author still makes an important point of drawing the wider scenery for us that doesn’t necessarily reflect protagonist’s understanding or biases.

Is Lan Zhan better than Jiang Cheng, because he condemned the sects for killing Wei Wuxian? Does agreeing with WWX’s morals make him a better person even though he did nothing of worth when the things were going down? Does it make him a hypocrite, or a man that finally understood something about the world and himself? Is JC to blame for not caring about the strangers when he had so little to offer and so much to lose? Does it make him a coward or just someone placed in a situation with no exits? Are the Wen Remnants (mostly cultivators, regardless of what the cql wants us to believe) worth anyone sticking their necks out for them if they took part in the war all the same? Are they to be punished for their leader’s decisions? Is anyone morally obliged to step into this mess? Is Wei Wuxian doing this out of obligation, or is it a debt he’s paying off, or an expression of friendship – or is this the only way he can find himself in the empty nightmare his life has become? The only way he can feel like himself when what he was, has been taken away form him? Is he a hero to these people, because this is the only way he can be a hero anymore? Or is he the only righteous person amongst the sinners? But then why would his ties be more important than anyone else’s? How much blame lies on Jin Guangyao, if he was doing the bidding of his father? Can he be blamed for everything, just because he was scarily good at his job?

It’s not one over the other, because each answer leads to more questions, and so on.

[incarnadinedreams]

What do you think about jc and wwx's relationship? And how sometimes it seems like wwx is not very kind(?) thinking about jc? I don't perceive him having a good opinion about jc (as he does with wn and lwj that he praises)

Oh, this is a tricky one for me! Thanks for the ask, it sparked a lot of thinking... probably too much, oops... and sorry it took so long to reply, there was a small tornado over the weekend so I've been busy picking up the yard for the last couple days...

I definitely agree that's the overall vibe. It's tough because I go back and forth on this and can probably be swayed in different directions depending on my mood or if I read a persuasive argument or something. (And if anyone has any thoughts on the topic I definitely welcome commentary or different perspectives! It's an interesting topic with a lot of different angles to explore, I think.) Or rather what I think the cause of it is, because I agree that he doesn't think of him in particularly nice ways, especially post-resurrection.

Because of the framing of the story, it's a little hard to tell if it's how he's thought about Jiang Cheng all along, or if it's his post-resurrection resentment coloring his recollections.

So then the question I waffle on is exactly how much of these opinions are from anger over everything that happened, how much stem from avoiding painful topics, and how much are from his ideas of Jiang Cheng that took root long before everything that happened? Or why not a little bit of all three!

(Cut for length. 'Challenge: Shut the Fuck Up and Have a Concise Point' has been a spectacular failure. Brevity is the soul of wit but these two make me stupid, so.)

As much as I do dearly love the most precious purple darling of my heart Jiang Cheng, from Wei Wuxian's perspective I can't really blame him for being at least a little bit peeved! There was a siege, after all, and it's not like Jiang Cheng is exactly nice to him either in the present timeline. So there's some 'turnabout is fair play' involved there. I might think he's simply objectively wrong in some of his evaluations of Jiang Cheng, but from an emotional perspective it makes sense and is probably on the mild side, all things considered.

In some ways, I think Wei Wuxian is somewhat invested in the idea of being someone that lets anything and everything go. Partially because it's true that he really does let go of a lot, perhaps to the point where the line is between a healthy amount of letting go and plain avoidance could be called into question, but also because it's what Jiang Yanli told him that's what he was like:

Jiang YanLi said that he was born with a smiling look. No matter what unfortunate thing happened, he wouldn't cling on to them; no matter what situation he was in, he would be happy.

-- Ch. 24, ExR translation

To some extent I think he wants to live up to that, to still be who his shijie said he is, back before everything horrible happened and he was trapped in a downward spiral. So he tries to suppress the greater part of both his anger and resentment, but it still sort of... leaks out, in all those small comments.

In some ways they're mirror opposites of each other: Jiang Cheng is aggressively bitter and angry to suppress how much he still cares about Wei Wuxian, and Wei Wuxian is comparatively civil and pleasant, considering the circumstances, to suppress the genuine pain and anger he feels.

And in some way, that response - the muted sort of civility - sets Jiang Cheng off even more, because it plays so strongly into his fears and insecurities that he cares more about Wei Wuxian than Wei Wuxian cares about him. The way their personalities and coping mechanisms and miscommunications all compound and echo off each other and create this awful swirling chasm between them is tragic but also rings so painfully true.

I think their first big confrontation after Jiang Cheng knows for sure that he was right, that it's really Wei Wuxian - in the inn after Jiang Cheng 'borrows' Fairy - really encapsulates that dynamic between them.

Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy.

-- Ch. 23. Love or hate, that's... a lot of feelings going on right there on Jiang Cheng's side. And then (from his perspective) he gets a whole lot of bland nothing back.

For a moment, no one spoke a word. The cup of tea was still steaming hot. Without having a single sip of it, he hurled it onto the ground. Jiang Cheng pulled a curt smile on his face, "... Don't you have anything to say to me?" […] With a sincere tone, Wei WuXian replied: "I don't know what to say to you." Jiang Cheng whispered: "You really don't learn, do you?"

And then to add insult to injury, later in the scene what finally provokes a real response from Wei Wuxian is insulting Lan Wangji.

If I had to take a stab at it, I'd probably say that Jiang Cheng's terrible reaction to non-reactions probably has something to do with his father's vague non-confrontational disappointment and general apathy, on top of just being infuriating in general.

But it's the scene in ch. 32 where the random children are playing out the Sunshot campaign where we see that Wei Wuxian's really not so unbothered about what happened between them at all:

"Jiang Cheng", "Hmph, I can't be better than you? Do you remember how you died?" The light smile on Wei WuXian's face dissipated at once. It was as if he had suddenly been pricked by a poisonous needle. A faint, sharp pain came from all around his body.

Even though it's the situation as seen through third parties who only having rumors to go off of (and the novel reminds us over and over again how accurate that is, even following up in later chapters to have Wei Wuxian clarify), it's obvious that being reminded of the general situation actually is pretty painful for him even if the details aren't particularly accurate. It takes him by surprise and hits where it hurts.

I think this whole pattern between the two of them plays heavily into the lead-up to the Ancestral Hall confrontation, actually - which is also where Wei Wuxian's sourness and dismissiveness is at its peak, and so is Jiang Cheng's fury and bitterness at Wei Wuxian's flippant attitude.

From Jiang Cheng's perspective, he's having just how little Wei Wuxian cares about him shoved in his face right after he'd just been prepared to do something that looks vaguely like dying for him at the Second Siege. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure Wei Wuxian doesn't know any of that preparing-to-sacrifice-himself stuff even happened, since he was a little busy turning himself into bait with spirit lure flags and all.

So, as usual, everything is horribly amplified by all the things each of them doesn't know about the other. All the things they don't know they don't know come to a head.

Unfortunately only Jiang Cheng comes out of that Ancestral Hall really knowing anything that he didn't know before.

For most of the novel, there's also just... less that he knows about Wen Ning and Lan Wangji. There's so much less baggage, less intensity.

Wen Ning, bless him, Wei Wuxian only knew as a living person for one afternoon at an archery tournament and then for three days at the Supervisory Office in Yiling. (Well, plus the time spent on the mountain for the golden core transfer but I don't think they were sitting around chatting over a nice cup of tea for that.) Of course some of what Wen Ning does really does deserve praise - he did help them at great personal danger to himself. But does Wei Wuxian even really know him? Wen Ning's suppressed resentment in life becomes a powerful tool for Wei Wuxian later, but how much does he really know about his hopes and fears and dreams? A significant chunk of time in the Burial Mounds is spent with no consciousness on Wen Ning's part, and once he regains consciousness there's still this sort of... lingering weird vibe with them until the very end of the novel when Wen Ning becomes more independent. There's genuine friendship, but there's also a sort of avoidance of ever really touching the topic of how Wen Ning feels about being used as his weapon, about being raised as a fierce corpse, about the possibility of being controlled by him, about the decisions Wei Wuxian made for him.

Wen Ning is also just... easy to like. He's sweet and polite -- and he never really pushes back or questions Wei Wuxian's decisions or hits him where it hurts the way Jiang Cheng does.

All he really knows about Lan Wangji for a good chunk of the novel is that he's the goody-two-shoes Lan from summer camp who condemns evil or whatever. Obviously that perception changes drastically throughout the story as more information is revealed and misunderstandings from the past are corrected, but he'd never really had any expectations in his past life for LWJ, and so it left far less room for disappointment, since he didn't realize how LWJ really felt. So what's not to praise?

Of course from a more meta standpoint LWJ is frequently used as a direct contrast to Jiang Cheng, often in ways that are intentionally deceptive on MXTX's part in service to the overall goal of trickle-truthing us about Jiang Cheng over the course of the novel. The setup is constantly reframing his character with tidbits of new information. For example the way Wei Wuxian reacts when seeing Lan Wangji's discipline whip scars in ch. 11 is clearly meant to lead us to believe Jiang Cheng committed some horrible transgression to recieve his own discipline whip scar... and then we find out actually it was from Wen Chao torturing him after the fall of the Jiang sect, because he foolishly, impulsively rushed back to recover his parents' bodies from Lotus Pier, forcing his long-suffering shixiong to sacrifice his own core... except oh wait, that's not what happened at all, except Wei Wuxian doesn't know that last part. So some of the early comparisons I think were also meant to serve that purpose.

But in terms of how Wei Wuxian uses this sort of dismissiveness to avoid confronting how much he's really lost, I think the way he regards Lotus Pier itself is pretty telling:

Although he had always dreamed of returning to Lotus Pier once more, he didn't want to go back to the tattered one nowadays!

Because isn't it just easier to think about how it's not that great anyway, so who cares if you've lost it?

[stiricidewrites]

The Damage You Do: ch 27, pt 10

Previously

~

“Mm,” the other man hummed, voice just barely catching. “I have a few techniques for helping clients relax. I think wy would most benefit from a short massage.”

wwx didn’t moan, he so totally didn’t.

lwj, rude asshole that he was, hasn’t going to let him live in the bubble of a world where he hadn’t moaned at the very suggestion of a massage, however. “Ah… I see I do not have to convince you of the efficacy of this plan?”

The man’s fingers pressed gently into his waist, and fucking hell, just that little bit—just one of his dom’s thumbs digging into his aching muscles—had him moaning again. This time, wwx couldn’t even pretend he hadn’t made any inappropriate noises. He was just too fucking loud.

“Do—” wwx cut of, swallowing and giving his lips a lick. wq was always telling him not to lick his lips, that it actually made them drier. He couldn’t not give them a little moisture, though. He’d just drank, and yet, was the room getting hotter? It felt like the room was getting hotter, all the moisture evaporating out of him and the air.

“Do I need to move?�� he continued. He hadn’t seen a massage table, but the room was huge and he could have missed it.

“We can do it here, if you have no objections.”

wwx shook his head. He had no objections to being massaged anywhere. He would lie down in the middle of the road if a massage was promised—hopefully hell had masseuses. Honestly, the idea of a massage was a thousand times more appealing than even that whole orgasm business. Push come to shove, he could get himself a toy and fuck his own ass. He couldn’t massage himself— Although, technically, he could now afford to pay someone to do it for him.

Really, he needed to dedicate some time to figuring out what to do with all his cash. Actually, what he needed to do was track down nhs and ask them what he should do with it all. How much should he spend on himself? What beauty maintenance services should he be booking? How much did he push lwj to pay for those things? Who did he go to for investing and shit like that? Should he buy a new car? Pay off his house? wq was mostly paying for it at the moment, which meant he’d have to talk to her and—

wwx shook himself as lwj helped him lay on the mat, the man arranging his arms and legs for him. Financials later. Relaxing and enjoying lwj’s hands on him now.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

I don't know if you know, but the irony of wnxg is that they don't share with each others past experiences. It's not extremely important, but sharing is part of a relationship?? It's lxc who says to wwx about how lwj suffered for their mother's death; it's always lxc who reveals to wwx how lwj got 33 strikes. Instead, not having others, lwj doesn't know nothing about wwx past, only few rumors. It's me, I am boring, but sharing things with your partner, is important?? How are they gonna comunicate with lxc in seclusion?

Obv that's my opinion and mxtx did do a great job! I am still there, two years after, screaming about jl, jc, wq and jgy! She had a lot of plot, so maybe she couldn’t explore the romance properly!

This is a good point that I hadn't considered! It made me reflect on how much characters reveal in general about their own stories outside of undergoing Empathy, and the answer is... not many! JGY notably reveals his own experiences under duress at Guanyin Temple, but he still doesn't talk about his life prior to being kicked down the stairs in any detail; the flashback showing his and MS's abuse in the brothel comes via WWX doing Empathy with Anxin's ghost. Other than that, all the major revelations one character are told by someone else. Off the top of my head, we have WN (and not WWX) revealing the core transfer, LXC (and not MY) revealing that MY was a double agent, and Bicao (and not Madame Qin, QS, or JGY) revealing that JGY and QS were half-siblings. And even the subjects of Empathy aren't telling their stories so much as letting WWX come along for a ride in their memories.

So on the one hand, this is an established trend in the novel. On the other hand, given the sheer amount of TIME we spend on Wangxian Romance Content, it's quite strange that our two leads tell each other so little about themselves! I would find Wangxian much more interesting if they replaced even just some of the repetitive "one character initiates physical intimacy when the other character won't remember it later" scenes with actual conversations about their experiences and who they are as people. It hits LWJ especially hard, I think, because at least we as an audience know what's going on with WWX since he's our viewpoint character. For LWJ, we're dependent on what WWX knows or observes, which is deliberately lacking.

I disagree that MXTX simply didn't have time/space to fit that in alongside everything else, because CQL manages to do silly hijinks and personal revelations in THE SAME SCENE. Episode 6 opens with LWJ catching the One Braincell Trio drinking together. WWX makes LWJ drink wine, and we get a mini version of goofy Drunji shenanigans... but WWX also learns about the Lan forehead ribbons (which will be relevant later in the same episode), and LWJ and WWX learn that both have lost their parents. LWJ doesn't elaborate beyond "I don't have a mother," but his sad, faraway little face makes plain how keenly he feels about it. WWX notices, and he confesses to LWJ that he can barely remember his parents beyond the fragmented memory of riding a donkey. (He also tells him about the dogs!)

It's a lovely little moment, and it's what first had me going "aww🥺" about the two of them. (Still does, honestly! I know I'm salty on here a lot, but I genuinely do love Drama Wangxian when I'm actively watching the show and am away from fandom; I only wish they'd been able to be expressly romantic with it.) I was definitely entertained by them speedrunning fanfic tropes in the Cloud Recesses episodes, but I would have tired of them if that was all their interactions were. That tiny bit of genuine bonding is what made me interested in learning more about them both and invested in seeing how their relationship developed.

And the entire sequence is just 5 minutes out of one 45-minute episode! It doesn't take much, and the written equivalent was something I sorely missed in the two volumes of the novel I read.

[llycaons]

major misstep when authors try to assign wwx and lwjs roles to other characters. especially jc. and it's kind of sad on his behalf. like you're agreeing with his mother? you don't think he's good enough as he is? you think he should be more like wwx too?

[guqin-and-flute]

Do you have any tips for writing Jin Ling?

SORRY THAT THIS IS A MILLION YEARS LATE AHH!!

So, it's interesting because, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think that I actually write canon!Jin Ling very often. Most of the things that I write where Jin Ling shows up, it's an AU where his circumstances have either changed drastically or he just doesn't exist (as in Peony to Lotus). Writing a Jin Ling whose parents lived will be a very different kid to the Jin Ling that we all know and love.

I suppose I would say start by looking at themes that continuously come up for him in canon--his parents and their absence in his life, not wanting to be looked down on, being independent, being seen as competent, argumentative, fearing vulnerability and people who invite him to be vulnerable, Fairy. Can act aggressive when he is caught off guard or embarrassed (WWX saving him from the cursemark) but doesn't actually seem to be too invested in his reputation being hurt (not being shamed when he's asked 'you named your dog FAIRY?' His response was basically 'Yeah, and what of it?') He is brave, even sometimes foolhardy and will often rush into situations, both social and otherwise, without thinking first. His respect is often grudging unless it's for his Uncles and he's not too interested in being polite, though he is not unnecessarily cruel. Also keep in mind that different people will see different things in Jin Ling!

When I'm trying to be consistent in my characterization of people, I often keep a list of traits, quirks, and reminders for myself about them. Usually I derive these from watching their source material again, but also other places--like other media or things I experience in my day to day. For example, if someone has a really different way of looking at something than I do--like a situation or conversation or even just a movie--sometimes I think about what sort of character might have that same outlook (not immediately, generally, I can finish conversations 😂).

Example: this is currently my list about Lan Qiren in the A-Fu Verse:

LQR

Can be physically affectionate when worried

Chills out a little after LWJ was punished in CQL/future

Canonically ‘instructed [twin jades] in an extremely strict way’ and ‘hates people who misbehave’

Shows care by pointing out the thing that can go wrong--caution, pessimism

It's not all encompassing because I'm mostly writing down the things I want to make sure I don't forget about the character.

[not-rude-ginger]

I really like the world you’ve created in For What. Any headcanons on WWX and JC and some of their reconciliation process? I loved how cuddly they got as it went on.

For For What specifically, I think there's a few things that they have to work through.

One, WWX will need to prove his desire to stay, to be at LP with JC and Tadpole - but he can't just be hanging around. JC needs him to take part in something, whether it's looking after Tadpole or helping the Plum Blossoms with talisman research or whatever - he needs to show he's invested in helping. JC will assume if WWX is just messing around that he's going to get bored and leave eventually.

Two, WWX needs a new core. As I mentioned in Author's notes, I followed the CQL version that WWX is back in his old body without a core. JC will want to get him a new one, as a way to balance scales, but it won't be easy. I think they'll both find the process raw and difficult.

Three, LWJ will need to get used to sharing WWX's attention. At the end of the fic it's still kinda novel, but as they all settle down, LWJ will realise he and WWX can't be as insular as they were because WWX wants to shower his didi in attention and JC will never demand it but will devour every bit he's given. There will be some nights where WWX will want to sleep in JC's bed, they might still do 'every day', but afterwards WWX's washing and bouncing to JC's bedroom for snuggles. Likewise JL will also have to get used to sharing with WWX and Tadpole. And then there's LXC.

Four, JC will need to find a place for WWX, which may actually be harder than expected. He's built a whole system in Lotus Pier around the idea that WWX is not there, and WWX has a unique place that's not been accounted for for a long time.

Five they will both have to learn not to assume the worst of each other -- that's gonna be a fun one.

Six, they will eventually settle into a co-parenting situation and that will take time to figure out.

Finally, I think once WWX has a core, they'll need to go adventuring a bit together, and resume being the gossipy bitches they are. They need to learn how to be easy around each other again, and that will take time, and people will need to let them work on that between them.

Mostly what they need is time and space to breathe and find out how to be around each other without high emotions or deceptions.

[fortune-maiden]

Show: MDZS or TGCF

Character: LQR or Pei Ming

Pairing: Wangxian or Hualian

Anything: Video games or tv shows?

Thank you!

Also these are hard xD

Show: I do love TGCF a lot but I have to give this one to MDZS. This was my first MXTX series, one of the first things I watched during the covid lockdown and got me back into fandom and writing. It's very special to me because of all the fun things that have happened in the last 3 years because I discovered it

Character: Why do I have to chooooooose T_T Shufu. I love Pei Ming and could go on forever on what a good character he is, but Shufu hits that rare gruff reasonable authority figure sweet spot and is the sort of character whom you want to gift a vacation away from the madness. Or unleash him on the madness and watch him clean it up, one thrown piece of chalk at a time. (Donghua!Shufu Best Shufu)

Pairing: This one is also hard xD But I have to give MDZS the win here too mostly because I like WWX & LWJ more as characters, and I especially began to love LWJ even more after finally reading the novel. (But in Hualian's defense, every domestic Hualian moment thaws my frozen heart and I did enjoy the fluffy romance moments in tgcf more than in mdzs where I was more invested in the plot and clan/family dynamics than Wangxian specifically)

Anything: I think a few years ago I would have said games, but currently TV Shows because they feel quicker to get through and less energy to engage with ^^"

I do still love games though too!

[runespoor7]

WWX/NHS for the ship ask?

based on the nature of the questions, I'm gonna say *make a so-so gesture with their hand* kinda.

What made you ship it?

It's not so much shipping as... a mix of "sure why not" and "this could be interesting" and a pinch of "this is funny /chengxian-related".

What are your favorite things about the ship?

As far I'm concerned, there are two flavours I can see.

a) is teenaged shenanigans in Cloud Recesses. Bros helping bros fooling around together. JC is way too stuck-up for this kind of fun, but NHS and WWX have no such compunction! The book has this amazing description of NHS when WWX sees him in the Cloud Recesses, something like "he looked like you could bully him into anything" or something equally side-eyeable. NHS sounds like he would be up to every single of WWX's bad ideas and he wouldn't grouch about it either.

it's about teenaged experimentation, and more than a little it's also about chengxian. (as in, it's hilarious to me when WWX is going after everyone who isn't JC, rip JC; and also it's about WWX running from thinking about JC and what he feels for JC. as usual.)

b) is post-canon stuff, and that part is super interesting to me. WWX was brought up because of NHS; how does he feel about that? (does WWX make a parallel between who he was to NHS, and what WN is to him? does he feel used, is my question?)

NHS has changed since they were kids, but unlike JC WWX wasn't very invested in him back then. Of course WWX is happy by the end of the book, but... if he gets restless, if his life is sated enough that he starts wondering in the direction of NHS... NHS too has become a mystery. One that WWX saw through at the end of the book, sure, but did he really?

I can see WWX poking around NHS, trying to get a picture of who NHS is now, what he's doing. NHS hasn't seemed as taken with WWX as any of WWX's sidekicks flavor of the month LWJ/JC/WN sidekicks... not even in the Cloud Recesses... or did he, back then? did WWX just not really realize because NHS was more timid than them, not as likely to throw himself into danger? it was a long time, though. Even if he once was willing to follow WWX, now he isn't. ...But he did facilitate WWX's return. Why WWX.

What I like about this idea is that WWX comes into it not as sure of himself as usual. NHS is an unknown-dangerous quantity, one who used to be friend-like. WWX doesn't own NHS even a little bit.

I think maybe NHS wouldn't hate playing games with WWX. They're only little games. NHS doesn't have any more secrets or grand plans. But talking with WWX is a thrill all the same - like he still has things to hide! And WWX was always such a fascinating person, charming and fearless.

I see them having pointed conversations over drinks that turn into veiled flirting that turn into something more over time.

I see NHS sighing about sect leader duties, and WWX wanting to nod; still neither of them likes the weight of responsibilities. And it would be poignant, I think, for them to commiserate and yet to feel the gulf that separates them from who they were as teens.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I don't know what's popular here, sorry.

[micamicster]

☕️ chengqing

Hi bestie thank you for asking! This is all going under a cut because I! AM! YELLING! What i will say up here with my full chest is i am currently writing fic for them. So i think you may be able to extrapolate how i feel about them from that <3

Allow me to direct you to my 500 recent posts vagueing about fandom sidelining female characters, or the fandom need to make every female character witty and wise-cracking, or the inexplicable fandom desire to assign a woman as lesbian, ship her with another side character she's never spoken to ever, relegate her to standing in the background making jokes, and then act like thats more progressive than actually being invested! in her character! as written!

Sorry. I have a lot of opinions.

I know that chengqing was apparently not a thing in the novel, and i know jc can be a... hm. controversial figure. So that probably explains why these problems are so pervasive in fic. But I do find her an absolutely fascinating character, and I think that her unrealized romance with jiang cheng was a brilliant addition to the story. It helps to illustrate BOTH characters values (which are very similar), and provides a foil for wwx/lwj's star crossed love story. It gives her more to do on screen, connects her more deeply to the main plot, and gives her an emotional investment in the most important action in the whole series (the golden core transfer).

In terms of their relationship? I'm obsessed. It hits every single point that makes me lose it over a doomed fictional romance and i canNOT GET ENOUGH! They go through so much and they're so good in every moment of their arcs

In cloud recesses, when she's a double agent who should know better, and he's a starstruck teenage boy who can't keep the hearts out of his eyes? Delicious! After the massacre, when his whole life has been destroyed and he's having ptsd flashbacks seeing the Wen insignia on her robes? Delicious! When she performs experimental transplant surgery on him without his knowledge or consent? DELICIOUS! Sunshot era, when he finds her in a prison and frees her using the power he doesn't know she gave him, and then basically proposes despite them being on opposite sides of a war? Delicious! When she refuses his offer because she knows their respective duties to their people will not allow it? DELICIOUS! I LOVE DUTY! Burial grounds, when she returns the comb and tries to set him free from her? Delicious! After sixteen years, when she miraculously survives and they have finally outlived the duties that kept them apart? Yes that happened and it was DELICIOUS!

Okay, so with all of that potential to work with, why is the fic I'm writing for some reason a modern au that roughly follows the plot of while you were sleeping? Idk. I can't explain that one folks! I do think it's good though. it's good.

[kiriel123]

Fic recs mdzs/the untamed

always coming home by detectorist

Modern AU exes wwx and lwj meet up seven years later. Wwx is a solicitor, lwj is an eco-terrorist and they are still just as in love as they were back then. I love how messy and real everything is, the writing is just superb

These Mortal Treasures by ChilianXianzi

Alternate canon with possessive dragonji. Lwj wants to keep rogue cultivator wwx and wwx is more than happy to be kept. Everyone in town is invested in their relationship

hurry down my chimney tonight by gusuvibes

Modern AU It's the happiest time of the year when I read this fic! NHS cons WWN and JC into working his santa booth. A-Yuan is a genius, WWX wears elf costumes, and LWJ tries to control his thirst. Plus Da-ge is Santa!

i really want to know (who are you) by Stratisphyre

Modern Forensics with Cultivation AU wwx has recently joined the Gusu Bureau of Cultivation as a Cultivation Technician. Lwj can’t stand him. At first. This writing is so rich in background and emotions

my rivers tilt towards you by perfectlyrose

Alternate Canon wwx and lwj are both traveling and end up in the same town. Lwj is instantly knocked out by his smile. They nighthunt together, until lwj is called home.  Later wwx makes his way to Cloud Recesses, which can only be found by those in need with pure intentions.

The Way of the Golden Lotus by DizziDreams

Modern AU JC and WWX run a bodega together and co-parent Jin Ling. LWJ is a regular customer and Jin Ling’s Wushu teacher. The Junior kids are ADORABLE and the familial relationship writing (and wangxian) is top tier. Still a wip but close to done!

a garden in your ribcage by puddingcatbeans

Modern with Magic AU wwx is the main witch in Yiling, until lwj is called in and they meet again after years apart. The casefic and magic system is built up so well and the writing is BEAUTIFUL. Their love is so powerful flowers bloom when they’re together

Pride Month shortfics by westiec

Mini-fics, one for each day of Pride month. Each is a little bite of adorable and happiness! Range of pairings and characters

OMEGA GRAD STUDENT GETS PREGNANT: YOU'LL NEVER GUESS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT by attackofthezee (noxlunate)

https://archiveofourown.org/works/32004376?view_full_work=true

Modern A/B/O AU omega wwx gets knocked up by a deadbeat and alpha colleague lwj gladly picks up the slack. Wwx moves in with lwj and lwj unsubtly continues to escalate their relationship with marriage and parenthood as end game

[sunbunnyyy]

just putting it out there that you can pry #1 wangxian stan lan xichen from my cold dead hands. all those posts abt lxc being So Done with the fact that mxy is really just wwx are funny but i don’t feel like it encompasses lxc enough

lxc the guy that saw his boyfriend sworn brother commit war crimes and looked the other way because he “had his reasons”

ik lxc yells at wwx at guanyin temple and calls wwx lwj’s only mistake but my guy was fucking going through it. i feel like that was wayyyy more misdirected anger than actual, legitimate feelings.

does that make it ok? no! am i justifying his behavior? maybe a little bit! it doesn’t change that lxc was always invested in lwj’s relationship with wwx because lwj was a person when wwx was around. you cannot tell me that lxc wouldn’t prioritize lwj’s happiness. ofc he ships wangxian. it doesn’t matter that he had beef with him for devaluing lwj’s feelings for him—clearly that was a misunderstanding, yall, lxc couldn’t know that wwx didn’t remember that day and also has the emotional intelligence of a fucking rock. he’s always been smart and lxc had explicit memories of wwx being a flirty little shit.

lxc doesn’t need to think wwx is the perfectest most unblemished person in existence to ship his brother with happiness