#introducing interesting concepts but only really understanding them on a kinda surface level and not having them reflect in the gameplay
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I need an elder scrolls developer to get really into ecology/biology. I am unsatisfied. Someone needs to pull a tolkein-and-languages with the ecosystems of tamriel. please.
#eso is trying but its#idk shallow? lazy? no. idk how to phrase it#introducing interesting concepts but only really understanding them on a kinda surface level and not having them reflect in the gameplay#maybe. i think#tbf i dont really like how ecosystems and wild animals are utilized in video games anyway but thats a diatribe for another day#maybe its just that i have ideas in my head and i like them better than canon#mine#tes
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Dissecting Red Spider Arc-The arc that non shipper find it disturbingly (For those who mind) Shippy
I’ve been watching gintama for the past couple of weeks. And since lately I encounter sleeping problem, lets turn this energy to talk about one of my favorite arc. The controversial arc that invite polarized opinion among Gintama fans.
For Tsukuyo fans, Red spider is a certain favorite together with Yoshiwara in flame and Courtesan of the nation. This arc fleshed her background and deepen her bond with yorozuya, especially Gintoki
For casual fans, this arc is the first time they see a glimpse of gintoki past, The first time gintoki in a berserk mode, the first time he act by his own volition. And somehow he appeared like a true shonen hero saving the heroine.
By then tsukuyo was far from heroine status. She just recently introduced a couple episodes back. Yoshiwara in flame focused more on Hinowa and seita story. But Tsukuyo already rose in ranking because her unique character design (in sacchan word, she has a lot of ‘hooks’) aside being badass in general.
For naysayers, Red spider arc is that arc that destroy Tsukuyo character. Reduced her into damsel in distress, mere love interest and what not. Of course its people’s right to interpret a work however they see fit. People enjoying entertainment in a different way afterall. Maybe they are a strict feminist type who wanted a true xena like character? disappointed when a strong female charachter ended up saved by the male hero? (Tho I wonder why they don’t care with preceeding events where Tsukuyo saved gintoki a couple of time)
The other would say this arc is such a big jump from previous arcs. A sudden transition they would say. And heck they’re right. Red spider arc Is different compared to other serious arc before it. Its lustrously dark, whispery, not much emphasis on family nor comedy, not much explosion nor machismo.
And more importantly, its uncharacteristically Intimate.
What do you expect? It took placein Yoshiwara-The Red light District- afterall.
The curtain raised with Jiraiya, the ex teacher of Tsukuyo, the main villain of this arc, On his post coital glow pondering about his object of creation. After enjoying the service of yoshiwara, He looked at the moon and probably feeling another rush of excitement reminiscing his dear beautiful student and the plan he’d set for her.
Not long after, Tsukuyo feel someone dangerous infiltrating her city. She and her Hyakka squad has been working hard to push down the crime that on the rise after the city lost its night king. Nearing their limit, she turned to Yorozuya, wondering if they can help with the drug problem.
Somehow, Tsukuyo and Gintoki teamed up just the two of them investigating the shady group with spider tattoo trademark. The result was assortment of classic romantic comedy skit : To-Love-Ru type of ‘accident’ and pretend couple.
Ok at this point its just natural that people start to see the two as potential couple. When they bicker they’d scream their heart silly, forgetting whatever adult persona they had in mind. Yet when the time come, they play along really well with the others bullshit act. They are on the same frequency already.
Back to the story, Later, they found out the drug lord is Jiraiya who apparently the long dead master (teacher who take care of protegee under their wing) of Tsukuyo. With his unique ability he nearly killed Gintoki and captured Tsukuyo.
Some Naysayers disappointed at this point because Tsukuyo who supposedly a good fighter became useless in front of jiraiya. Ok let me use this opportunity to explain the technicality of how that’s possible.
She was shocked.
It was a surprise attack
Jiraiya, knew his student fighting ability the best and knew how to immobilize her.
Even Gintoki Almost killed because of his weird technique
She used the last of her strength to saved gintoki from jiraiya’s final blow.
“Huh? But gintoki didn’t turned into a useless mess when he met his long dead master alive?”
Lol what are you smoking? The old master would split gintoki’s head from his body if not because Kagura’s help. Also Utsuro/Shouyo goal was to crushed the rebels and nothing to do with Gintoki. While Jiraiya’s goal was to capture Tsukuyo. Understand the difference?
Ok now that its out of my system lets continue.
Later Gintoki learned about the nature of Jiraiya and what this student-master relationship actually are from Zenzou. She-who believed every word of him and followed his foot step- was his creation and his prey at the same time. This method is sickening for Gintoki who loved his master to death.
For Gintoki a master should be more or less like shoyo. Strong, kind, wise and selfless. The kind of sage who gave his life for his student. Its infuriating to learn that a good women like tsukuyo has a psychotic monster as a master.
“see..Its not because of Tsukuyo that gintoki willingly revert to his shiroyasa self. Its because the master-student thingie that made him mad af”
Was the stuff I read from naysayers. And for this one, I kinda agree. The main thing that infuriate gintoki about Jiraiya was that he used master student relationship for some psychotic goal. As we know later, whenever topic about his own master brought on, Gintoki turned into a different beast.
Even I can see this arc’s intent beside telling tsukuyo’s past and cementing her as one of the recurrent character was also to foreshadow Shoyo related arcs in the future.
However among all of that baggage brought by this arc, theres this one dialogue that caught my attention.
G : "give up already, theres nothing in your web. This entire time there was only a pathetic little spider spinning thread into sky while gazing at distant moon"
J : "What are you babbling about?I already knew that long ago"
The ones who ascociate Tsukuyo with the moon are the one who cherish her like hinowa and the hyakka squad or the bastard who obsessed at her like Jiraiya. It’s a secret nickname people gave to her beside Shinigami Tayuu / courtesan of death. Wt
At that moment, Gintoki speak about what Tsukuyo is to Jiraiya existence : A moon to a little insignificant spider. This confirm that Gintoki understand Tsukuyo’s epithet-wich means at that point of story he is familiar toward Tsukuyo more than the viewers aware of.
To add, This is probably just me but the way he said that stuff about Jiraiya, whispering while gazing at the sky, as if its applied to him aswell.
Well, I just think that because throughout the fight he keep rambling about being on the same level as Jiraiya.
G: Do you know how to survive the spider nest? By eating the spider.
G : She is stronger than you ever be. A coward like me is enough for a coward like you
To Fight Jiraiya, Gintoki drew parrarel between himself and Jiraiya. And its not impossible that parrarel extended until that moment.
I came to the conclusion At that moment Gintoki already admire Tsukuyo. Wether her virtue, her face, her quirk or her phisycal attractiveness, it could be anything. The fact is Tsukuyo basically embodies everything gintoki like in a women.
However because of his mindset and his self sabotaging lifestyle, he understood Jiraiya’s point of view of admiring an existence that is too good for them.
The episode ended with Tsukuyo learning his master’s past and accepting his flaw after killing him. The moment when Gintoki implied that he would never be a good student to their master as tsukuyo is pretty touching too.
The last episode of this arc is a short one with majorly comedic skits. Another To Love Ru accident. And a classic wingman setup to force a couple to be alone together.
Lol too much couply stuff happening in this arc.
Later after the crazy terminator drunken stupor, Tsukuyo asked gintoki if she didn’t has this scar, would her life be any different?
At this point I realize the pain endured by her, even though she said she was fine, physically and mentally, she actually struggling with the realization that all her past was something different than she perceived to be, that rather than genuine student master relationship, its an elaborate plan by her master to kill himself.
Its like realizing that we are adopted after all this time living in a loving family. From the surface it might not changed anything because its all in the past, But it changed everything within. It changed the foundation of what we stood upon all these time.
Gintoki then assured her that her life is one that she choose, No one make her choose that. wether it’s driven by a psychotic manipulation or a trust in a teacher who wanted make her strong. The life is still hers to behold and cherish
Gintoki further assured that her face Is not ugly, Its pretty face carrying clean soul. Or something to that effect (since translation vary)
As you see “Soul” is the overarching concept on Gintama. Its like “Adventure” on One piece and “Hard Work” On Naruto. It’s the Idea that the shounen protagonist holds dear.
Shoyo first teaching to Gintoki was how to protect his soul. In the war Gintoki choose to kill Shoyo to save his master’s soul. Means he choose Shoyo over his friends and himself. In effect, one of the friend’s soul was corrupted. While Gintoki turned himself into a vessel whose purpose was merely to protect people he deemed fit and procasinating on his own growth.
Gintoki speak about Tsukuyo’s soul in her face is another testament of how deep their trust and bond has formed.
Even though Gintoki has innate ability to peek into the human character, its not his fashion to directly address it. He usually find a roundabout way to make the others understand that they are being understood. But with Tsukuyo, everything he do about her is direct.
“Don’t be a stranger, Lean on me, laugh with me and cry with me. I’d be there, cry and laugh with you ” Said Gintoki to tsukuyo.
The Gintoki who often avoid emotional baggage from a stranger.
In conclusion, Red Spider Arc is such an awesome arc. The vibe is cool, the soundtrack is awesome and its has an intense emotionally charged action.
It is also the breeding ground for gintsu shipper, wich probably gonna make some part of fandom upset. But it is what it is and we can just enjoy or choose not to.
#gintama#Tsukuyo#gintoki#Gintoki x Tsukuyo#Red Spider arc#gintsu#gintsuki#dissecting#love this arc so much i need it to get out of my system
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I was wondering if you were planning on doing EZ reviews. I personally think if you get past the Erza clone and the similarities in looks with some characters that the story is very well and actually has a better plot than FT did.
So I’m going to give my surface level response on this and I will be fair on my stance like I usually try to. In the most general term, I don’t really review a series I don’t care about. If you notice I haven’t done a review of Black Clover in a while, its mainly cause this current arc is something I don’t really care about and it would feel like a drain on both me and my audience to here that each week. I’m sure my audience and EZ fans probably don’t wanna hear me belly ache about the series week to week.
This series really does show me that its made for people who like Hiro Mashima’s work. And if you do, more power to you, but your probably not going to enjoy my usually dissecting review style.
So right here I’m going to give my thoughts on the series to this point, and I wanna start positively. I do agree that the plot to Eden’s Zero is much better structured than FT’s once you get past the Elsie stuff. The four star shine robots plot to get to Mother actually seems like a good plotting out of how to take this story. It really reminds me of finding the four rave’s.
I also think I’ve mentioned this back in my former reviews, but the setting to is also interesting too, and forces world building. Though, I’d like them to experience the world rather than Witch just read of a synopsis of the world. Yeah having an internet in the world does kinda kill the sense of adventure.
And I will also say that I’m happy that most the cast has motivation unlike most of FT.
And with that we lead into my problems with the story. First as I mentioned, the the plot does have better structure once you get past the Elsie stuff, the problem is that before that the pacing and plot seems really really slow, very confused, and then introduces such a high concept like time being eaten and going to other worlds in the past. While I do appreciate Hiro trying for a slower pace in the beginning, he’s doesn’t use it interestingly. He could take this time to explain the government or how these cosmos work? Is there king of space? Could the cosmos be cut up like the blues in One Piece? Or how about my biggest question, WHAT THE FUCK IS ETHER GEAR?! No we need more time travel and friendship!
Then there’s the first arc with this whole sister stuff. I will give credit that Rogue Out as villains aren’t too bad. Jin is obviously the best because he might heel turn, the sumo looking guy isn’t overtly evil, which was nice, and I could kinda get into Sister’s whole thing of just doing what she is paid to do as a motivation. But all villains except them are the usual Hiro Mashima bland weirdos with no characterization.
This Illega guy, I was expecting maybe a twist with him and why he has a collection of girls was maybe something subversive. Maybe he is trying to bring back tourism to his planet and by kidnapping B-cubers he was going to make them make the planet more entertaining, I mean Rebecca had a whole chapter praising them as coming up with fun things to do. Maybe he has a child who has an ether gear that made them look human and left him after the planet got closed off saying they’ll become a B-cuber, so he’s kid napping B-cubers to see if that one is her and that stuff that makes them stone should make his child reveal her true form.
No, he’s just a creep who likes turning women into furniture. Because��� And that guy Wise’s intro arc who is just a common thug with his leg fetish brothers.
So I can’t call that story well done. If it takes till the Elsie arc to actually get to the plot actually moving forward and that this current arc is this bland and boring arc with everything being in the morally black, its not interesting.
How about the characters? Well, Shiki I’ll at least be fair, is actually gotten better than Natsu mainly cause he’s trying to be proactive. I’ll even give his gravity power at least seems to have more creativity than the generic fire dragon magic. But he’s such a confused and bland character. I mentioned this in my review chapter 1, Shiki’s strongest aspect is his social awkwardness and how that related to being raised around machines in a fantasy park. But he wants Shiki to be like your usual big damn hero whenever the time comes for him to look cool.
I recently watched an interesting piece on how My Hero’s Deku and Black Clover’s Asta represented two different types of shounen protagonists and ways to take a story. With Deku being a representation of the protagonist who needs to grow physically and emotionally into the pillar of his world that can inspire and fufil his dream, while Asta already is the pillar of his world who already can inspire and needs to earn recognition. Both of these types of protagonist are fine, but Shiki is trying to be both of them and it results in none of them. He seemingly needs to grow into a person who can actually get a ton of friends, but he also is apparently the kid who will rock the universe. It just results in a confused character, why does he act like such an idiot when he’s completely competent in action scenes?
And what makes him endearing? Say robots have a heart? Dude all the robots in this series have shown the ability to make expression and have emotion. We saw an android walk the street in chapter 2! Why do machines act like Shiki just told them the word of god after he says they have a heart, they all emote. Look at Pino and especially Witch, they’re displaying a range of emotion. Its not like they look like a cyberman who talks mechanically.
He’s just confused and unfortunately falls always back into that friendship shit as his only motivator instead of possibly addressing the trauma or adding a layer on how he won’t lose other people and what that feels like for him. The only time it really felt like he was living up to that emotionally stunned guy, was when he was beating the shit out of Illega to the point that Pino needed to shut him off, because I’m sure this kid can’t handle the emotion of anger quite yet in this situation.
Rebecca I think is worse though. I don’t know why people like her other than her design. Her personality is essentially jelly that can be morphed into whatever you want to fit the situation. She’s perverted in some scenes, but then doesn’t like perversion? I mean, she gets two guns in her hands and looks like a moron shooting randomly. Like is that badass? Is this what a female character has to do to be considered cool now?
I don’t consider her a rip off of Lucy, because Lucy actually had a character. Had a personality. No she is more a rip off of Elie from Rave, right down to the shooting shit up part. Only Elie made sense cause she was actually really unhinged thanks to the fact that she had no memories. But she got over it! She developed. Outside of her one past flashback with Happy, nothing about her is that interesting. I’ll also give her that she now just gets ether gear and its something she clearly can’t control yet, so there is room for improvement.
Wise, is actually an okay character. He’s got a cool concept of a guy from the past who is an inventor living in the future. I think his only weakness is that his ether gear is stupidly OP.
Pino is… Just and ornament that looks cute. You want your daughteru character to latch onto Shiki, here. Hell, I have bet going with a friend of mine that Pino will get some upgrade and she’ll have the body of a hot teenage girl. Its not that I hate here idea of having her memory erased, but the more I see of her and to more I hear about this robots have a heart makes me wish Michael came along.
Yeah, missed opportunity, cause Michael is not only a foil to Shiki and his adoptive brother, but he also doesn’t have a humanoid face. Meaning he doesn’t get convey true emotion so he actually seems like a robot. He actually seems like he’d have a character arc about discovering wanting to be more and more human. People would call Shiki weird calling a robot his “brother” and Michael never thought about it and we know there are multiple models of Michael. Imagine how fucking devastating it would be to see yourself mass produced. Imagine he actually gets to the point that he wants a humanoid face, because he wants to emote.
No we get Pino, who basically is Carla, but lacks any of thee enjoyable sass. Because we didn’t have enough sidekicks on this cast. Also we learn EMP is how to shut off ether gear, great, this is like if Usopp just had sea-prism stone on him at all times.
Then there’s Homura, she’s awful too. I’ll at least give Rebecca that she’s likable, but Homura she is personalitiy-less and has the worse character gimmick I think I’ve seen. Its not funny, its dumb. She can also use this ether gear too, and its a sword that was apparently passed down-its fucking 10 commandments. She also just walked into this story, like wha…? I’d be fine if she was like hunting the Eden’s Zero ship and watched it take off on Bluegarden, but no, Homura just came along cause she conveniently met Wise.
I’ll give her credit that the sword fighting looks cool, and I understand why people might like her cause that actually seems like something badass, but as a character she just feels tacked on.
Then there’s witch who is basically just the older sister character.
Elsie is not awful actually. She actually is a lot different from Erza and I actually would like to follow the space pirates more than I would want these random travelers. Also quick question, why do they still have the Eden’s Zero looking like a pirate ship? I mean, it looks cool, but these fuckers are not pirates, not even close. Oh wait, I know! We needed to rip off captain Harlock some more.
I’m not going to even talk about the potential love square with Shiki, Rebecca and Lavilla/Labilla, possibly Esie and Homura (?) cause one credit to FT was it wasn’t a harem, and Rave used a character like Celia and Beruka to more add an extra layer to the relationship of Elie and Haru. SO hoping Hiro avoids that.
So yeah if this rant has probably showed you, I don’t think EZ is all that great. But if you like it, fine I get that. I just have no interest in really talking about it week to week as even though I got down on FT, the beginning of the series was still something I enjoyed and I wanted to talk about how the current stuff had turned out. But EZ has no, beginning I liked. So I just don’t feel like I should be talking about it week to week.
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I think one of the things about SPN that is so interesting is... characters lie. All the time. And we aren't always given obvious reasons to suspect they're lying until later when they say something contradictory. I saw a post the other day about Rowena and how she'd mentioned Crowley was conceived during an orgy (something I'd forgotten) and it occurred to me with later information we had... that doesn't sound likely if she knew who the father was and was abandoned by him. (1/2)
This has a point that's relevant, sorry. What I was referring to is the post about Becky and how we don't know why she and Chuck broke up because there is conflicting info, so we have to make our best guess. In a weird way, "canon" isn't canon, because a surface text reading doesn't account for characters being disingenuous. We aren't told which is the lie and which is the truth every time, we kinda gotta figure it out for ourselves using what we make of the characters and additional context(2/2
Hi there! And if this isn’t a potentially loaded question, I don’t know what is. And it’s something that’s even been raised as a question in text on multiple occasions, which makes it a valid thing for us to question and carefully consider. You may have seen this old post I reblogged a little while ago with an addition about context:
http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/162709800125/mittensmorgul-i-offer-this-up-as-a-metaphor-for
Congrats, you’re the anon I was referring to in the little blurb at the bottom of that post :D
I’ll start by saying that yes, we know the characters are capable of lying. In 6.03, Dean tells this to Ben in plain words:
Dean: Ben, I know you're lying... Because I lie professionally, that's how. Now tell your mom that you broke the damn thing and take it like a man. Okay? Okay.
He lies professionally. In 5.03, he explains why he lies to Cas, by lying about it:
Dean: Seriously? You're going to walk in there and tell him the truth?Castiel: Why not?Dean: Because we're humans. And when humans want something really, really bad, we lie.Castiel: Why?Dean: Because that's how you become President.
Dean’s explanation of why they were going to lie to the cops was also a lie. Walking into the police station and politely informing them the gas station explosion was caused by an archangel taking his vessel would’ve resulted in them being either laughed out of the police station or locked up on a 72 hour involuntary psychiatric hold. Yet Dean didn’t need to explain that to the audience, because we’re supposed to understand that fact. That’s where critical thinking skills come into play. We understand the humor of what he said to Cas anyway, without having to be led by the hand and told that Dean was joking there.
So I’d argue with your assertion that “Canon isn’t canon because characters lie sometimes.” It’s all still canon, because the characters DID say these things, but it’s up to us if we accept or reject the surface text reading as honestly intended dialogue, or sarcasm, or humor, or a misdirection, or a warning that there’s something deeper happening beneath the surface layer text. Sometimes the surface layer text sets off alarm bells because it directly contradicts other facts that have already been established, and in those moments we’re SUPPOSED to react by yelling out at the TV, questioning the character’s motives for saying something we already understand to be incorrect, you know?
It’s still incorrect to assume that EVERYTHING the characters say is a lie, or untrustworthy, or unreliable. Just because a character CAN be unreliable as a narrator doesn’t mean that they’re ALWAYS unreliable as a narrator.
It’s our jobs as viewers to apply critical thinking skills, combined with our previously established understanding of the characters, and the information we already have about the situation the characters are dealing with on screen, and then interpret the subtext and visual narrative cues the show has established over more than a decade of telling us this story, and not just make willy-nilly random assumptions about scenes, but incorporate ALL of that into an educated assessment of what’s most likely.
Because despite all of that ^^, and the fact that multiple interpretations are certainly possible, and character motivations and unverifiable statements (like Rowena’s story of how Crowley was conceived, or even Crowley’s story of having sold his soul for “an extra three inches below the belt” since that’s another character statement I’ve personally always doubted) are more open to potential interpretation than things like entire plotlines and situations that are directly contradicted by events we have seen or will see with our own eyes, not all interpretations of those larger events are equally probable.
It reminds me of the scene in 2.14, after Sam-possessed-by-Meg told a very one-sided and hurtful version of the story of how her father had died, having been shot in the head by John Winchester, leaving room for Jo to doubt whether it had been an accident that her father could potentially have survived if John had tried to save him instead of shooting him. Meg was deliberately trying to upset Jo, and it worked, to an extent:
JO: I know demons lie, but ... do they ever tell the truth too?DEAN: Uh, um, yeah, sometimes, I guess. Especially if they know it'll mess with your head. (Another swig.) Why do you ask?
Thing is, your very first assumption there, that the characters lie all the time, is equally untenable. Because just as often as they lie, they DO tell the truth. Not everything they say is equally open to interpretation or doubt. For a random fun-fact, like the situation in which Crowley was conceived, didn’t affect the larger narrative. It only provided characterization for Rowena. This was how she CHOSE to present herself when we were first introduced to her, but then we watched her character develop over the next few seasons. We began to understand her, her history, her motivations.
We saw her less as a carefree villain and more as a woman who’d been used, abused, wronged, and who’d reinvented herself multiple times as she amassed the power to not only take back control over her own life, but in search of revenge against those who’d wronged her. In 11.09 we learned the painfully harsh truth about why she may have originally been so flippant about Crowley’s father. And again in 12.11 we learned yet more reasons why she’d carefully crafted her cool facade, during her conversation with the witch who’d once thought of Rowena as little more than a disposable sex toy. So understanding Rowena’s history with the benefit of later canon and context, it not only helps us understand that her original self-narrative was a lie in the first place, but it gives us the ability to understand why she would’ve told that particular lie about herself. This is how you write complex, three-dimensional characters with depth.
Now with the Chuck and Becky situation, we have learned many things over the years about both of those characters, as well. Ultimately it doesn’t matter to the narrative why they broke up, nor does it matter whether Becky was telling the truth about why. The only thing a varied interpretation on whether she was lying there could potentially change is how we feel about her as a character. Do we sympathize with her? Do we have a greater insight into her as a “person” and what her motivations in life may be? Does a varied interpretation also affect the way we view Chuck as a character, especially when taken through the lens of late s11 Chuck episodes where it’s confirmed not only that he was God all along, but also in 11.20 we see through Metatron’s questioning of him, his motivations, his entire autobiography, that Chuck was sort of veracity-impaired as well? Being able to question the veracity of Becky’s statements all those years before lends us a greater understanding of Chuck as a character, too. Especially once we understand the depth of his denial over the original act that made all of creation possible in the first place.
Ultimately it doesn’t affect the larger story, other than to support our understanding of the characters, and offer a depth to explore the characters more fully.
That’s just good writing. It forces us to question things, forces us to really think about things, and hits us on an emotional and sympathetic level that colors our interpretations.
If the narrative just came straight out and told us all these things, it would be boring. The characters wouldn’t be three dimensional. We wouldn’t be able to think about them as if they were real people. They’d just be paper cutouts with words written on them telling us exactly who they were and what their motives and intentions were. There’d be nothing to actively engage us in the narrative.
That said, this is why looking at isolated incidents out of context of the rest of the things we already know and understand about the characters will often lead to wonky interpretations that don’t really work when viewed in context with the rest of the narrative.
I think this kinda-sorta addresses your question? I hope? This is such a difficult topic to discuss, because it does introduce subjectivity into the narrative. The thing is (and this is partly where the concept of “meta” differs from “headcanon” or “speculation”), at least the way I approach it, meta is grounded in postmodern literary critique, and not just random commentary on random things without a foundational understanding of how stories are told.
Not everything is as open to interpretation as everything else. There are rules to this gig, and actual meta will at least acknowledge that those rules exist. :P
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Rookie Impressions of the Big ADA Conference - Lost in Translation?
New Post has been published on http://type2diabetestreatment.net/diabetes-mellitus/rookie-impressions-of-the-big-ada-conference-lost-in-translation/
Rookie Impressions of the Big ADA Conference - Lost in Translation?
Too many medical professionals are disconnected from us people with diabetes (PWDs) and they're missing the point on how to help us manage our diabetes. Yet, they are passionate and so want to reach us.
That's my main takeaway from the American Diabetes Association's 72nd Scientific Sessions, as a newbie attending this mass diabetes conference for the very first time.
Rookie observations are what you'll find here, now that I've had a chance to stop sprinting around downtown Philly — a place that seemed like the hub of the diabetes universe for five days, where circa 17,000 professionals converged (60% from outside the U.S.) to talk diabetes.
This conference showed me I really need to brush up on my diabetes science lingo, rather than relying only on my 28 years of experience of living with type 1. You know, the insider baseball stuff that gets lost in translation between these conferences and the offices where we go to visit our docs. These doctor-to-doctor and research-heavy mass meetups are full of stats and conceptual scientific mumbo jumbo, and it's never been aimed at the patient to get as much out of it as the professionals. This is just the nature of the conference.
But as a patient-blogger, I did manage to find some gold nuggets and interesting tidbits scattered throughout the sessions. And individually, many of the speakers seemed very excited and brilliant about whatever the topic might have been.
Being a non-science-type, it seemed to me that the most dynamic aspects of the entire conference happened in the evenings and outside the convention center meeting rooms, where brilliant minds came together to actually discuss issues that really resonated with me on the patient-level. Abbott, Taking Care of Your Diabetes and the Helmsley Charitable Trust and T1DExchange were some of the forums I checked out, witnessing great discussions about how progress in science, technology, patient care, and the development of the D-community are making real changes for patients living with this thing.
The rest of the "official business" during the day? Kinda boring in the context of my average PWD eyes.
The Missing Point
My observation in attending a dozen or so sessions is that many of the questions researchers seem to believe are unanswered or need more study come down to a simple point: we PWDs aren't stats, slides or textbook scenarios. We are people, with lives that are complicated by many more things than just diabetes.
As inspiring as it was to see the mind-power and passion of thousands of people working on diabetes, my heart was a bit sad that it didn't feel like the medical community is connecting the dots — even some very obvious dots.
I heard multiple times: Peer support seems to help, but we don't know why and need to study that more. Online resources appear to help, but the "quantifiable evidence" doesn't tell the docs why and so they only scratch the surface (I suppose many never heard of the supportive DOC or are threatened by its lack of physician involvement?!).
A quote from Dr. Kevin Volpp, in a talk on how to motivate PWDs to change their behaviors, sums it up for me: "We need a more effective way of hovering over patients that will be well-received." He wondered if health care social media could be a way, but left it at that.
To me, it was like watching my favorite baseball player hit the ball and seeing it soar into the outfield toward the wall, only to have it fall short and stay inside the ballpark. What a letdown!
(OMG, isn't it OBVIOUS why peer support helps? Apparently not, to people who've never had to struggle with BG control, day-in and day-out)
Another obvious point: please don't hover over me! Unless you want to be kicked, or you're auditioning to be my butler. Instead, try talking and listening to me. And not being threatened when I don't agree with you or question the wisdom of your medical guidance. Know that often talking to my PWD friends who "get it" can be just as powerful, if not more, than anything you might tell me.
Others talked about the wonders of the Internet being a way to reach patients, and the need for peer support, but no one seemed to recognize (at least in the sessions) that you can connect the two without the doctor and that has so much potential to change behaviors and help PWDs on every level (!)
Grrr.
Cynicism aside, though, what shines through that disconnect is the passion packed into every corner of the conference, a desire to help PWDs that radiates into clinic's offices throughout the U.S. and world. That can't be ignored. Maybe they're missing the point in presentation, and not really understanding how to bring this home to us, but every single person I encountered seemed passionate and caring. I do believe they're in this for us, and they're making a difference.
Translating Good Intentions?
Some presentations and talks I attended were outstanding. Just a sampling of those I saw talk throughout the sessions include: Bill Polonsky in San Diego, Bruce Bode in Atlanta, Korey Hood in San Francisco, Lori Laffel in Boston, and Julio Rosenstock in Dallas. There are probably many more who really know diabetes. Some of them live with it, so they know it's complicated and so many psychosocial issues play into every aspect of our management.
But when you go up to presenters or audience members after the sessions, introduce yourself and ask them how they plan to take the scientific info back to their patients, and a majority of those brilliant minds can't adequately translate the stats and science into "patient-friendly" terms... There's something amiss.
The poster hall was also a great place to get the nitty-gritty on new research and concepts, but most of the boards had large charts and loads of stats that were often difficult to understand unless you had the presenter right there to explain it simply. Or you already knew what you were looking at.
Even if this conference isn't "for the patient," you have to wonder if this stuff will ever trickle down to us PWDs in the trenches in ways that mean something to us...? That's how I would define success, if anybody asked me.
News-poolza
Everyone had news to share. Seriously. Did you SEE the number of press releases sent out before, during and right after the conference? This is prime time for those wanting to unveil anything D-related, but c'mon people... Spread things out. With everyone coordinating their announcements with this conference, one of my tasks was to attend the press briefings, the nuts and bolts of which can be found in the June 8-12 releases online.
The briefing room was slotted right next to where the ADA Press Room sat, where dozens of reporters from various publications hunched over PCs to plug out stories and updates. Some were PWDs and pump users, but most of the media folk didn't seem to have any obvious D-connection and a couple could be even be overheard asking each other basic questions about differences between types, the meanings of basal/bolus, and whether the term "diabetic" should be used (he, he).
I couldn't help but think of all the coverage in papers and on TV stations throughout the world exuding from conference, and how so many accuracy issues might arise... seems like something Diabetes Advocates might be interested in getting involved in for the future, as part of our push for media awareness about diabetes.
Oh, did I mention that the exhibit hall was HUGE? With elaborate company booths at every turn where you could find their particular gadget, gizmo or med in all its glorious hype?
But you know what? There wasn't anything really "new or novel" that I haven't seen before in some form or another. Lots of meters, pumps, CGMs and programs that all seem to basically do what every one of their predecessors have done. Except some are fancier, more colorful and modernized for the 21st century. But even those weren't anything that hasn't been announced before. I was hoping for the "next coolest thing you've never heard of before," but just didn't see it.
You had to go behind the scenes to talk with the execs, not the fleets of sales reps on the exhibit hall floor, to get the real story. It was like finding Willy Wonka inside a factory full of candy and oompa loompas, who really only sing the songs they're scripted for and aren't allowed to tell you anything about the real impacts of the candy they're making because of regulatory push back. (And yes, a Pharma company sales rep tells me that there are FDA "secret shoppers" who visit the Pharma and device-maker booths to listen to what's being said to people on the exhibit hall floor and make sure nothing off-limits is being pitched).
So, while the experience was a lot to absorb, much of it seems just for show.
It all seemed kind of disappointing, even if you could do cool things, like get your taken photo and transposed onto the cover of the newly-redesigned Diabetes Forecast magazine, visit any of the dozen or more free coffee stands scattered around, or get the usual kind of flashy propaganda about the newest products and services.
Value = Relationships
In the end, the biggest value of this conference is networking, IMHO. It's a giant mixer to help diabetes pros establish, maintain and strengthen relationships. It's about recognizing each others work, and hopefully acknowledging that it takes everyone's voice to achieve greatness.
We need the science exploring the theory. But we also need the translation to the real world. We need Pharma and device-makers to give us the tools to do these jobs, and we need both the docs and us patients to communicate clearly about what works and doesn't. We ALL have to listen to each other.
I'm excited and energetic about the brilliance, passion and desire to help PWDs. Now, I just hope the dots get connected.
So, that's that.
Back home in Indiana now, I'm finally starting to see "normoglycemia" rather than the stream of lows caused by the fast pace of covering the conference. Never a dull moment for us PWDs who are always on our feet (literally and figuratively!).
Oh, and I should probably mention there's one other golden truth that can't be ignored about the conference:
Next time, I need to listen to that old adage about wearing comfortable shoes for all the running around; this year's conference left me flat-footed in addition to brain-fried!
Disclaimer: Content created by the Diabetes Mine team. For more details click here.
Disclaimer
This content is created for Diabetes Mine, a consumer health blog focused on the diabetes community. The content is not medically reviewed and doesn't adhere to Healthline's editorial guidelines. For more information about Healthline's partnership with Diabetes Mine, please click here.
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