#in da2 hes actually a Hawke

[paragonraptors]

for science (because im curious)

if you have more than one worldstate, pick for the one you consider your "main"/"canon" worldstate or the one you plan to use first for da4! also feel free to lay out your reasoning in the tags gushing about your dragon age runs is accepted and encouraged here.

[stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage]

So I went searching for special dialogue for a romanced Alistair, who stayed with the wardens, about a HoF who made the ultimate sacrifice. Specifically for what he says in DAI. For reasons.

I know what he says about her when she's alive in DAI, so I was curious if he'd saying anything about her if she's dead, like Leliana and Morrigan do. After reading through all sorts of forms and reddit posts where most of the answers were "huh I dunno what he says in DAI, I've never done that route," I eventually found out what he says.

Nothing.

Romanced Alistair says nothing about a dead HoF in DAI. At first I thought this was odd? Surely there's something referencing the fact that he and the warden were in love? even if just for fanservice like in DA2? Some of the comments on these posts blame it on Bioware doing bad writing again but it's hard to tell if they actually mean that, or if they're conflating "I don't like this" with bad writing because honestly? I disagree.

Intentionally or not, Alistair not saying anything about his dead lover is completely in character for him. He doesn't know the Inquisitor. Why should he tell them anything about the love of his life that he lost ten years ago? He's not as open about that stuff like Leliana or Morrigan.

You know what's actually out of character? Alistair giving a random stranger he met for two seconds an item that belonged to his dead lover because "she doesn't need it anymore."

Wasn't it enough to ruin his face, DA2? Did you really need to throw in some botched fanservice as well?

Wait a minute, Varric's telling this story...

Alright, new headcanon: Varric is, as per usual, full of shit. Alistair did give Hawke an item because he felt bad that he couldn't help them with the qunari except it wasn't anything special. But that's not interesting enough, so Varric lied and said Alistair gave Hawke an item that belongs to THE Hero of Fereldan for the sake of showing how super special Hawke is.

[chraustinjesse]

Hero - Champion - Herald

Yarren Mahariel - Fior Hawke - Adhas Lavellan

More versions under the cut

[grimwarden]

da2 hawke has so much in common with a dai varric that lost hawke to fade.

[droodlebug]

it's 1 am but i couldnt sleep until I drew my Rhys really quick

[rainydaysie]

Ahhh, Hawke stepped in the poopy.

[vaguely-concerned]

just going about my day idly contemplating how some of the ways hawke can interact with a romanced anders are not at all unlike how they interact with leandra (and a bit of carver too, especially with a purple hawke), and then thought about my hawke in the timeline where he romances anders and was hit straight in the face with 'was he ever actually in love, or was he just desperately trying to renegotiate with his mother's ghost in any way he could' and now i need to lie down. this is the power of dragon age 2

[shivunin]

Hi, I just wondered what your favourite part of the Fenhawke romance was? Like, a scene/moment that really made you fall more in love with him? I love your writing so much!!

Oh, that is very kind of you to say! 💗I'm glad you enjoy the things I've written. I've really been enjoying writing for this ship, especially the past few months c:

As for your question...

Man, that's tough. I have a hard time picking one thing---I mean, *gestures to all the fic* you know? But I can narrow it down to a couple of scenes/elements:

The fact that a romanced Fenris still calls you "my friend" even after the act 2 romance scene. This is just...the bedrock of their relationship to me. Yes, that night went very poorly (understatement, I know), but at the core they are friends and he trusts Hawke in a way he's likely never had the cause or opportunity to trust someone before. I believe he never stopped loving Hawke, and it was a matter of laying those feelings out and understanding them one at a time. Romantic love not replacing platonic love or eclipsing it, but building or twining together is just... *chef's kiss* that's the good stuff.

The moment during the romance conversation in Act 3 when you can see Fenris go from hoping (painfully hoping!) that there is still some way he and Hawke can be together to actually believing it will happen. There is a shift in his body language that I could watch (and...have) over and over.

The element of choice? This is not going to be coherent, but the fact that he is learning for the first time what it means to have options and preferences, and he spends a lot of time exploring and understanding himself...and after all of that, the thing he keeps coming back to is Hawke. I think it's gorgeous. A song with refrains of pain or fear and choruses of decision and hope. He's loyal to a fault, in many ways, but understanding how much of himself exists to share and then still choosing to share it is just...man. I said this wasn't going to be coherent lol, so there you are. "If there is a future to be had..." like he doubts its existence but he's willing to chance it for Hawke. Man.

But, honestly? I've played DA2 a lot of times and never romanced another character, even though I've played through multiple romance storylines in each of the other games. I can't shake the Fenris romance. Every time I open a new playthrough, I tell myself that this is the time I'm going to romance Isabela, and every time Fenris rips that dude's heart out and I just......alright, yeah. Okay. Here we go again.

[varyathevillain]

Sebastian Vael would've been such a better character for the Dragon Age fandom to enjoy if in act 3 instead of the shitty "here, have a Leliana cameo and another proof there's Blood Magic Everywhere in Kirkwall, go fetch!" quest, we had a different one.

Let's say... Hawke has an option of investigating a weird deal between a chantry sister and a Starkhaven diplomat, and during it you uncover that the chantry has been embezzling from Starkhaven's treasury, as well as putting "former chantry members" (read: malleable or outright Chantry puppets) in the ruling circle which is currently holding Starkhaven afloat in absence of Sebastian as their Prince.

If Sebastian is not in the party as you uncover this, you have an option to either tell him about it, or investigate the questline further. If he is, however, in the party as you find the first notice of something being wrong between Chantry and Starkhaven relations, Sebastian will exclaim that this is a mistake, someone posing outside (or within) a Chantry to implicate either Starkhaven royalty, or Grand Cleric Elthina, and reference Sister Petrice. The moment you involve him in the questline, however, he'll be locked in for the investigation missions, and start getting special points in the code, one for each encounter (including the very first one starting the questline), for the final confrontation of the questline. The same happens if you start involving Sebastian at any other point of the questline, but with less and less points available.

As you progress, there would be three more quests to go through, one of which even takes you to either the outskirts of Starkhaven, or to the busy streets of it, allowing 1) to show another city state of Free Marches, 2) where Sebastian comes from, 3) actually be worth your money for the DLC, if ideal DA2 still had him as a DLC companion. Which I still hate with burning passion a decision, same with Javik being DLC in ME3.

The questline has chantry sisters and nobles implicated, Flora Harriman reaching out to Hawke about weird decisions made in Starkhaven politics, resembling what her mother did, and at a second quest there's even a possibility of you uncovering a chantry brother in a contract with a Desire demon. It seems like it all leads up to corruption in the political sphere and stragglers in the Chantry circles, right?

Except. On the final quest. It is revealed that Elthina, in her own handwriting, no forgery as confirmed by any rogue in the party, has forced Grand Cleric of Starkhaven to resign, installed her own puppet (one of the chantry sisters you might see in Act 1) as a new Grand Cleric, all for a bid of "uniting the Free Marches under the Chantry banner". It also implies that Sister Petrice was telling the truth, and that Elthina was, in fact, more involved with the unrest against Qunari than one would believe in the base game (I believe she was involved, but it's not majorly pertaining to this post in particular). There's a letter that implies Lady Harimann was allowed to do what she did, because Elthina believed she'd be able to manipulate Sebastian in favour of the Chantry. It also unveils how many people of Starkhaven were hurt by this. Turns out, a lot.

Then, you can go about this questline ending several ways.

This is where the points counting in the background come into play.

If you did not bring Sebastian alongside you on any of the missions, or if there aren't enough points for you to sway him... Sebastian will claim the evidence as plot against his support of the Chantry and Elthina specifically, and burn the letters in particular, calling them a "bad replica of what sister Petrice tried to do". Elthina, on prodding, feigns innocence, or if you have not talked to Sebastian yet, calls him in to discuss "this silly accusation", which gives +15 rivalry if you're not in a locked relationship with him. He still burns the letters, and accuses you of believing the conspirators, or even being one of them. There are some undertones in Elthina's dialogue to imply she's ready to blackmail you back if you press the matter, and Hawke has no choice but to back off.

If you bring Sebastian along and your relationship with him at this point is so-so, neither a full friendship or a rivalry, you'd need at least 3 points with favourable dialogue, this makes Sebastian question the Chantry, even Elthina. You'd need all 4 points (bringing him from the get go in your party when they rock up to the start of the questline) without going further into discussion for him to buckle. With friendship, you'd need to bring him on at least 2 missions, or 3 with favourable dialogue. With rivalry, however, you need for him to be brought only on one mission with favourable dialogue, the final one, after which he'll even say that "You (Hawke) were right about me needing to step up and rule Starkhaven". On two missions if you want to bicker with him throughout the quests instead.

If you would manage to sway Sebastian by the end, you'd have one final choice: support him in standing up and demanding answers from Elthina, or asking him to forgive her involvement.

Supporting him on Friendship is the simplest, but supporting him on Rivalry ends up in Sebastian switching to Friendship, like with Merrill reversing her Friendship in Mirror Image if you don't give her the Arulin'Holm. This ends up in a calmly voiced, but very angry Sebastian Vael, pure venom in his words, listing how Elthina has abused his trust and his people by using faith in the Chantry, and manipulating a Prince of a sovereign nation for her own means. If you supported him on Rivalry, he'll have additional lines on how you've challenged him to see problems with Chantry and Templar order, as well as to come back to Starkhaven, and outright thank you right in front of Elthina, whose eyes will throw daggers in your direction. At the end of the speech, Sebastian will actually start removing pieces of his armour, them clattering to the floor at Elthina's feet, and walk out alongside you out of the Kirkwall chantry.

However, if you ask him to forgive Elthina, he'll have the biggest rivalry (+30) jump in the game if you aren't in a Friendship, and will briefly lash out at you, saying that complacency with his devotion to the Chantry is what got him and his people into this mess. On Rivalry, it's worse. Instead of a calm but angry and vicious reprimand of Elthina's actions, Sebastian will SCREAM at her, throw evidence in her face, and then scream at you on Rivalry for good measure, about how you can't simply forgive someone who would seek ruin his city, and is actively ruining Kirkwall. How he was blind to Elthina's actions, but sees now that blood magic isn't the rot at the city's heart that is dividing the Circle and Templar order, it's Chantry politicians like Elthina. And instead of armour pieces clattering to the ground, they're thrown at the feet of the Andraste statue, while Sebastian outright declares that if Elthina doesn't cease machinations in Starkhaven, he'll rage war against her, specifically, and everyone who would support her. Then, he storms out, alone.

You can insert either a "there's nothing to talk about" with Elthina afterwards in both endings of this form, or promises of Hawke "never holding a position in this city aside from carrying the Amell name".

After that, you can find Sebastian, clad in a new armour (simple, reminiscent of what Alistair wears in his introduction scene in DAO, only with the Starkhaven symbol emblazoned on an archer chest piece), with a box in his arms, on the steps out of Hightown into Lowtown. He jokes about how his whole life in Kirkwall can, at the same time, be put into a small box like this one, and be something world encompassing. After a dialogue, where he tells you he is going to live in a small hovel in Lowtown, since he doesn't want to even see the chantry building, or talk with nobles who'd gladly eat him and people of Starkhaven alive, until the moment Kirkwall unrest is over, since he wants stability for you and your city as well. Also, he'd rather spend money on his people and those in need, not himself.

If romanced, or with certain persuasion options, you can invite him to live with you. You can still try to invite him with a couple of options, but he'll deny them for various reasons. After that, he'd live near the market; or, if you managed to convince him, in Hawke's mansion.

If in a romance, there's a hot makeout scene in the library which fades to black implying a proper sex scene. If not, he'll have amusing additional scenes with other companions, especially other love interests, with a bit of hostility from Isabela and Anders, and a lot of genuine fun from Fenris and Merrill.

When you talk with him alone (at either Lowtown hovel or at home in the Library), Sebastian discusses, on Friendship, how he is still Andrastian, even if Chantry failed him and his, or on Rivalry how he feels that blind devotion blinded him to Chantry mistakes.

Banter between party members also changes, with one dialogue from Merrill implying that Sebastian is now helping refugees and the poor, Fenris talking about his efforts in making an organisation for former templars/chantry members expelled for one reason or another, Anders being surprised at a late night visit where Sebastian covered in blood (not his) brought him herbs and potion flasks as a peace offering, et cetera. There's still tension over Sebastian belief in the Chant and Andraste, but it's not anymore about him having to perform for the Chantry and his public image.

If you don't complete the quest with this ending, Sebastian Vael still demands Anders to be executed, or he'll wage war. But if you do... he confesses that Anders has asked him to warn as many people in Lowtown and Darktown not to come to the Hightown and chantry, but assumed this would be because of Meredith and Orsino outright fighting in front of Elthina, not this... murder.

He will, however, draw his bow and point an arrow at Anders, saying that this was not the answer to help his cause, and Anders needs to pay now. Hawke can allow him to do that, or step in.

In a so-so relationship, if you choose anything else but "I will execute him myself" or relent to Sebastian's demand and let him shoot Anders? Vael will spit at your feet and leave your party and the conflict, resulting in a very similar ending to his character as in the original DA2, just less anti-mage and pro-Chantry.

However, in a Friendship or Rivalry, it's very easy to convince him to still stay at your side and see it through. With his unknowing help, many innocents of Kirkwall were saved, and now he has to stick around to help as well, and to either see Anders pay for his crimes with work and healing, not redemption through martyr-like murder, or to understand that this, inadvertently, would be every city across Southern Thedas, including Starkhaven, if Chantry dogma supported by Templars will continue murder, physical and emotional, of mages. He'll have additional dialogue depending on whether you're a mage Hawke, or if Bethany died/is in Circle.

In Romance, Sebastian will lower his bow immediately as Hawke steps between. You'll have to mess up really badly in dialogue for him to storm out.

[ambrosykim]

look at my son🥹

[paarthursass]

i'm going to be honest i don't think any rpg where you create your character should have a voiced protagonist. games like rdr2 or the witcher are fine, those are set characters you're playing, it makes sense they'd have only a few set responses. but if it's a game where you completely customize your character then a voiced protagonist just takes away an element of choice from the player. it gives you limited dialogue options, and it means the dialogue tree is unhelpful and simplified to the extent that you don't know what you're talking about when you click the options at hand. yes this counts for dragon age and mass effect too.

[stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage]

You ever think about how in spite of knowing their exact locations, the game never gives any indication that templar Carver has reported his mage sibling, Merril (a blood mage) or Anders (an abomination) to his superiors?

I do think about that a lot, even though I tend to ignore the Templar Carver route because I know Warden Carver to be true in my heart and soul... but I totally get the appeal of Templar Carver within DA2's narrative, y'know?

It's so fascinating, really. I've never played a run with Templar Carver, I just can't bring myself to do it, so I know I'm missing out on smaller details of it. From what I do know, this drives me crazy in the best way possible.

Deciding whether to bring him or not to the Deep Roads is such an important choice, not only because it affects his fate, but how it affects his relationship to Hawke. He tells you that he wants to go, he makes it very clear that it's important to him that he goes, too... and Hawke can just leave him behind and it hurts him. I don't think that registers enough with some people just because of how Carver is, like it doesn't matter what Hawke's motivations are [staying behind for his safety, not wanting to bring him, thinking someone should stay with Leandra, etc] it still hurts him because it tells him that Hawke doesn't need him, and Carver wants to be needed.

And yes, there are other contributing factors to why he joins the templars, but it doesn't matter what your relationship is to him, it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't turn Hawke or his companions in.

Sure, the meta reason is it's a video game and you're playing the main character. You're never in any actual danger of being captured by templars, and you're not going to lose your companions to them that easy.

But if we look at it through the narrative and Carver's character, that's when it gets interesting. You can max out his rivalry and be an utter asshole to him [there's a point where you can call him a brat and mock him for being stuck in your shadow, like Hawke can be real cruel about it] but it doesn't matter, you're still his sibling. He even makes a remark about how you might not know what that means [referring to leaving him behind] but he does. He refuses to kill Hawke in the end when Meredith makes the order, too.

Which can I just point out that Hawke has the option to let Bethany die in the end if she's with the circle and they side with the templars? Just saying, Carver NEVER does that no matter what, but Hawke has the option to betray Bethany like that and it's fucked and interesting and it makes me want to eat my chair-

As for Merrill and Anders, I think he knows that if he turns either of them in, then the chances of Hawke being brought in as well skyrocket. They're all friends, they're in the same group... bring one in, and you'll probably get the other two.

I also think Carver just genuinely likes Merrill. Yes, I'm a Carver/Merrill shipper, so I have a bias, but even if you remove anything romantic from their dynamic I believe that's true. Of all the companions, Merrill is the only one who doesn't make fun of him, or find him annoying, in party banters. He never snaps back at her, like he's never defensive with her, he's just a little awkward and nice.

Like, HE'S SO NICE TO HER! He tries to find common ground with her! She asks him about "swording" and he's taken aback by her saying he's good at it, but you KNOW that if someone like Anders asked him the same question, he's be all, "shut up, you're stupid, stop talking to me >:["

Think back to that banter Carver can have with Aveline post-act 1 where they're talking about how the guard wasn't the right place for him [hard disagree with you there, Aveline] and Carver says he was a bit of a tit, wasn't he.... and every companion will agree except Merrill. She doesn't say anything, whereas other companions like Anders will be like "ugh maker YES" and if you have a purple Hawke, they'll go on to other ways Carver was a tit like?? I think Carver and Merrill got along and he doesn't want to turn her in because she was nice to him! And she's a blood mage! He knows what will happen to her if the templars get ahold of her! He doesn't want to see her made tranquil or killed!

At that point, he's witnessed what bad blood mages can do, assuming you've brought him along for those quests, but even so. He knows Merrill isn't like that and he likes her, so of course he's not going to turn her in despite that being his literal duty.

Then there's Anders who Carver doesn't like. If you're in a romance with him, Carver will tell him that's why he doesn't turn him in but c'mon Carver, you know that's not the only reason. My theory is Carver may not like Anders and he knows the man's got a spirit of justice inside of him... but Anders also runs a free clinic. If he's ever taken in by templars, then so many people [including a LOT of Fereldan refugees] will be without free health care and will suffer for it. I think in Carver's eyes, Anders might be irritating but he doesn't more good than harm. Carver knows first hand how shitty refugees and poorer people are treated in Kirkwall. Anders' clinic is the one place they can go for help and actually get it, and he's not going to be the one to take that away because the templars say "magic bad."

So yeah, I'm not as informed about the Templar Carver route, but I do think about how if I did do that route, he wouldn't betray Hawke or their companions no matter what and what that says about him.

[redwayfarers]

So I succumbed to the urge to make Nika as Hawke and um. Sir. You scored alotta rivalry points with your brother before he violently died

[x-letsbreaksomerules-x]

some battle drawings because i think i have a problem. the problem is that if i stop paying attention to Fenris he fucking dies every 5 minutes and i have to revive his ass. i really should have put extra points into his health and stamina

[blightmage]

Just thinking about how if Justice was written justly he would have been really into Hawke's and Ander's romance ("Anders; Kristoff use to woo Aura by [insert thing here]. You should try [insert thing here]").

[uranium235s]

they're like Weezer . silly under the cut