#in all seriousness i dont think it was an intentional homophobia so much as like. environmental influence

[tuxedokit]

just got called a dyke by a guy id never met????? am i officially a lesbian now? /j

[pholiabanna]

Confession time; i kinda hate the st writers. They are the reason why the pride was ruined during the vol2 waiting, the reason why we face constant homophobia from mlvns and the ga for shipping byler and all bc they refused to break up mlvn and also included that shit ass monologue. Now we have to wait years to see the conclusion meanwhile ppl gradualy start lose their interest. They ruined Nick's career and reputation for no reason when his site was there for years. The way they say nothing against the apparent fandom homophobia even though it is not even a secret since ppl sharw homophobic comments left and right. The way they use Will's car scene as a memeable moment even though many queer fans were devastated when the scene came out. The way they write these characters. The way they treate Will. The way they treated Robin. I have so much spite and hatred bottled in me and i am only starting to realize it after a year. If byler doesnt become canon i hope all st writers and the duffers lose their jobs and never manage to write ever again. I would even support Netlix going full bankrupt. My respect for the writers all depend on whether or not byler becomes canon and i dont care if it makes me stuck with byler or whatever. After everything the writers pulled, yes, my respect all depend on this choice for S5.

Honestly I see where you're coming from, so your feelings are completely valid. I do believe that the monologue and saving byler for the last season makes narrative sense because of the way they've written the story and how best friends to lovers stories usually work (they normally won't get together until the end of a movie, and you have to think of ST as a 5 season long movie).

I think most of those things you pointed out are more of a fandom problem, like Will crying in the van becoming a meme- I believe it was portrayed very seriously in the show and it was a certain sector of the audience who decided to memefy it. Also, the homophobia would happen even if byler became canon in season 4, sadly homophobes are everywhere in every fandom. I also believe a lot of those things you pointed out are more of Netflix's fault, because using Wills scene as a meme was something accounts like Netflix, Netflix geeked, Netflix UK and other did, but I don't recall strangerwriters doing that (but I may be wrong so please if I am let me know). Their executives were probably the ones who decided to split the season as well, and having vol 2 come out right after pride month (being a terrible coincidence because of the byler-Milkvan storyline and the homophobia that subsequently came from maloobans). If I remember correctly, the writers account has stated a couple times that everyone should be allowed to ship whoever they want. But as you pointed out, sometimes I feel like they could do a little bit more. They tanked Nick's reputation (which I can understand up to a certain point if they are trying to protect the show they are working on from getting spoiled, but maybe they should have made a less vague and incriminating statement), and they definitely could address the rampant homophobia in the fandom more frequently.

It sucks that we need to wait so many years to prove we were right, but think about how satisfying it will be once the season comes out and you watch all of those people have a breakdown, and hopefully you see interviews from the duffers explaining how that was the intention all along. If that's the case, then I'll be happy, but as you said, if all of these was for nothing and byler isn't endgame, I'll definitely consider it queerbaiting, because they have built up romantic feelings for Will on Mike's side, even if some people want to deny it. So yeah, queerbaiting in 2023 sucks, and it's totally valid for you to feel like you won't respect them anymore if they go that route. I think more people need to realize this is not a matter of whether the couple I like ends up together over the couple other people like, it's a matter of whether queer people get a respectful and deserved treatment or not. And if they don't, then they're terrible writers, because if the way they fucked up that storyline, and terrible people too.

But hopefully not. Right now, I'm really convinced byler is endgame and they know what they're doing. We have to deal with crazy Melvin stans meanwhile, but the wait will be over before you notice and they'll get really quiet and embarrassed once they realize how wrong they were. But I'd like for them to address some of the homophobic comments online a little bit more often.

[omegawolverine]

Plesse tell me about queerness in the get down!!

okay okay queerness in the get down let's fuckn goooo

disclaimer: I havent watched this show in full for like 5 months at least, probably gonna get something wrong and/or forget some more important bits. also this wasnt proof read I just word vomited

tws: period typical homophobia, abuse mention, f slur use, bury your gays trope, overdose mention, mention of a creepy possible age gap (the age gap hasnt been confirmed so that's why its possible), cops

going from least to most prominent queer characters, let's start with mylene cruz!

so, from the beginning of this show she has an established romantic relationship with ezekiel (although the status of their actual relationship changes frequently throughout the show) and though this was a relationship she was hesitant to pursue, it is clear that she does have romantic feelings for him and if not for them both having growing careers in very different music genres (zeke specifically working in a genre that she repeatedly labels as bad because she thinks they're ruining records + that it isnt real music because they're using someone elses piece and rapping over it, that's not really important here tho lol) they probably wouldve had a much healthier, smooth sailing romance. that being said theres a few things that happen in the show that, while not explicitly clear, or even really good coding at that—to the point where you wont catch if you really arent looking for it (and trust me, I always look for coding, hers was just so little that it flew over my head until I saw someone else mention it)—are still cool to think about!

so, for starters, I wanna mention the toy box performance, which was performed by mylene and regina, who are best friends. that's all cool and shit, and you dont really think much about it...until you hear about the fact that the show runners purposely colored a lot of the scenes in that performance with the bi colors. like. the writers after the show ended basically said "oh yeah there was plans to make her coding more explicit, but our shit got cancelled soooo" and then dropped the fact that she was gonna be bi (or at least implies bi) in the series, which puts a new twist on a few things.

now, besides the bi coloring in the background of the toy box performance (which was mostly on scenes with her and regina, which involved a lot of uh,, lowkey lewd dancing. with each other. in very revealing outfits. wooooo), there's her music! I dont tend to read too much into this one bc, like I said before, her coding is fucking light and the writers themselves said they didnt really get to do much with it, but I think some stuff with her music is interesting. specifically how her, yolanda and regina's song set me free blew up because dizzee, resident (lowkey enby coded) bicon, got their song played in a queer club. also that the song was majorly important to dizzee and started playing literally right as he kissed a boy for the first time and realized "oh shit I like boys that's bonkers". also that the song can be taken in a gay way since literally the entire thing is about becoming your true self, fully and unapologetically, which is what both dizzee and mylene's entire character arcs are about. dizzee (and a lot of other queer people, apparently), heard this song about being set free and it resonated with them so much that they got that shit most of its popularity.

speaking of dizzee and mylene, they parallel each other a lot in the way that their arcs are about them realizing who they are, coming into themselves and no longer just letting people treat them like shit in a sense (dizzee starting to tell people essentially that they can call him weird all they want, they can make fun of how he acts, what he likes, how he dresses, etc. but he likes how he is and quite literally saying "it's okay to be an alien" as he has consistently compared himself to one throughout the show vs mylene learning that if she wants to be a disco singer she needs to put her foot down, not let anyone, not even the love of her life, not even her abusive father, stop her from achieving her dreams, etc. and continuing to pursue her career with or without their support). one more little parallel that I think is interesting is during I think s2 towards the end of the show is when dizzee and thor are shown together having fun with each other, painting all over the building and each other and are basically just being happy and in love together and then they have these clips of them being interspersed with clips of mylene at a party where she is starting to realize that if she wants to get anywhere she needs to be her own main priority and that she needs to put her career and her dream, which is what makes her the happiest, above all else if she wants to succeed. idk I just think how the show made these two into a weird parallel, accidental or not, is neat. maybe not an explicitly queer parallel, but I think at least how her music and whatnot helped dizzee, the main queer character in this show, blossom, is important.

moving on we got shaolin fantastic also known as "oh no your internalized homophobia is showing-"

so, heres a quick list of...interesting shao facts:

Consistently referred to as fag/faggot (shaolin fanfaggot is my personal favorite); he gets really defensive about this despite nobody actually thinking he's queer, it's just people being assholes to be assholes, and he is the only character consistently referred to using a slur, especially a homophobic one, especially for a "straight" character. dizzee, a canonically queer character, is called a fag less than shaolin is even though dizzee actively goes to gay clubs, has a not so secret dude he "hangs out with" and wont let anyone properly meet, paints his nails, wears less than straight clothes even by the 70s standards and is just all around the definition of fucking queer (and I mean like in the weird way, not the gay way). in fact theres only like once I can remember him being called a fag and it had nothing to do with him actually being gay it was literally just like thrown out there the same way you would call someone a bitch.

Has only shown sexual interest in women, yet refuses to have deeper relationships with women in general (possibly because of trauma but who knows) but takes his relationships with his "brothers", specifically zeke, very seriously

Tells zeke and zeke ONLY his real name when zeke was planning to stop being his friend bc shao more or less got boo boo, a like 14 year old black kid, arrested for selling hard drugs; he was clearly scared and trying to do anything to keep zeke around, literally chasing him down the street and hounding him until he got zeke to stop and argue with him

Kept threatening to beat up zeke in the end but couldn't actually bring himself to do so, instead saying that zeke is "fucking lucky" before walking away

Let's zeke get away with things that nobody else can, in general just has a weird soft spot for ezekiel that he shows with nobody else

when shao found dizzee with thor in a vaguely compromising situation (like they were just shirtless covered in paint sleeping next to each other but shao had also seen everything they painted on the walls ((which some of it was sus)), it was clear they had painted on each others bodies and dizzee had been routinely disappearing with this guy for weeks now yet not producing nearly as much art, at least, as far as we audience members know) he didnt judge him but instead, waited for him to get cleaned up and then told him something along the lines of "theres a reason why im so secretive blah blah blah [not everyone needs to know everything about me]", which, in context, kinda implies that he might be a lil. a lil homiesexual. jus a lil.

whenever even the possibility of zeke leaving him comes up he absolutely loses it. he has literally cost ezekiel life changing opportunities because he thought zeke would just up and leave him for them. this could be abandonment issues bc he's a severely traumatized character, and that probably does contribute to it, but it also is just not a reaction he has to any of their other friends just randomly dipping in and out of his life soooooo

generally speaking, this mfer has got either bisexual with a big hard on for zeke coding or homosexual with terrible internalized homophobia and still a hard on for zeke coding. either fucking way, that nigga gay. he gay as hell. gay as fuck man. there wasn't really much to analyze here tbh bc the coding is just so fucking obvious if you look for it or you are/have been a gay person who's dealt with at least a little bit of internalized homophobia.

also, just a sidenote, idk how fucking old shao, but I'm praying hes like at max 19 bc I'm pretty sure zeke is a minor in this show and shao definetly is not so the whole him being heavily implied to have a crush on ezekiel thing is kinda. oof. not oof if zeke is like 17 but any younger than that? OOF.

edit: apparently the characters are only supposed to be a year apart in age but i had no clue about that before writing this post and since shaos age was never actually stated in the show i naturally assumed he was an adult since his actor Looks Like An Adult. this is definetly on me to a certain extent, but i also never saw anything about this when trying to find our their ages so 🤷‍♀️ maybe i just didnt look deep enough, sorry!

now moving on to the main event...marcus dizzee kipling :]

so, first things first, let's talk enby coding bc him being bisexual was already confirmed!

um, to start off, I just wanna say I dont think this enby coding was intentional or even really coding, it's just moreso me being a dizzee kin on main and knowing as a transmasc enby he has very transmasc enby vibes. for example:

cool, gender neutral nickname that everyone calls him

paints nails various different colors

the whole wardrobe is just a transmasc enby heaven...fishnet shirts, jean overalls, jackets and cuffed pants galore, the big colorful pins, etc

gender neutral hairstyle (when I had my fro it was very sexy and made it easy to transition between hyper masc and vaguely fem, which is pog)

comparing himself to/representing himself consistently with an alien character (though this is meant to represent his sexuality, it could also double as a gender thing too, not neccesarily bc of the whole nonbinary alien trope but bc an enby who likes aliens might heavily identify or compare themselves to whatever their idea of an alien is, whether that just be a genderless entity or a motherfucker with fly style and no need to be perceived as anything other Wacky As Hell)

moving on from there, let's talk about how his queerness is presented to us and how, while it may be a really good piece of representation, especially coming from netflix, it still lacks in A Lot of places.

so, let's start with good things!

i personally really like the get down's queer rep with dizzee bc it's (for the most part) nonsexualized and very very soft, about dizzee figuring himself out and realizing there is a place where he fits in, and about two teenagers in the 70s falling in love over their shared passion for street art. it also features an interracial couple where both boys challenge stereotypes both about queer men and men of color, which is epic poggers and very sexy. this piece of rep specifically is very important to me bc I am a queer black person and even tho interracial relationships are mostly normalized now, I've still had people give me shit for primarily dating white people in a town that is...primarily white lol

mm anyways, I can also appreciate how in the get down, dizzee being represented by rumi the alien is not a thing specifically related to gender (as it often is) and instead is about his sexuality and just in general weirdness and how it has led to him being alienated amongst his peers, poc or otherwise. him seeing himself as an alien is not about just his queerness, which is important, it is about him being a queer black man who talks different, acts different, dresses different and is "soft"—he isnt a walking black male stereotype and he wouldnt have been seen as masculine back in the 70s by any stretch of the imagination. this can be relatable to a wide spectrum of queer poc, from queer black men currently who still have to deal with this shit or to people like myself who are afab neurodivergent mixed race enbies that have always been signaled out as weird and alienated for it. dizzee is god rep bc while he has a small part in this show, his parts are very impactful, hard hitting and show queer poc of all ages that they arent alone and that it's okay to "weird", you just need to embrace it because somebody will love you for you, as thor did for dizzee.

that being said theres um. some minor problemas here,,,

namely:

dizzee and thors first kiss

the lack of development this pairing got

the way dizzee was confirmed bisexual off screen, he never said the words himself, just showed interest in both genders

the way dizzee and thor were never even confirmed boyfriends or just fwb so most of the fandom just calls them boyfriends bc Why Not

dizzee was implied fucking DEAD??? AT THE END OF THE SERIES?????? AND THOR WAS IMPLIED ARRESTED?????????????

now, these might have been things that wouldve been fine had the show been given it's full run but it wasnt which is why we are now left with probelms.

so, from the top, let's go over these: dizzee and thor's first (and only "on screen") kiss was one that was shown in a montage of other queer people making over and doing other vaguely romantic/sexual things, one of those things being a whole ass naked titty being mouthed at, but the actual kiss...was just not shown? like they really did just say "yes they kissed <3 you know this from the context clues of it being in a montage with kissing, hickey giving and titty sucking <3 but no we will not show it <3" LIKE HELLO? I SAW A NAKED BOOBIE BUT NOT TWO MEN KISS??? HUH????????

also, dizzee and thor were both fucking high as hell during this bit like this isnt a terrible thing but it's also like sometimes you do shit when you're high that you wouldnt do sober and they just never kissed again on screen so like?? like idk that's not that bad but it does kinda irk me since they deadass got no other on screen intimacy after that unless you including painting on eacher other or sleeping next to each other on a shitty mattress but not touching at all during it bc they were both at opposite ends of the mattress like half way off it

so yeah, that was trash. then we got lack of development, which kinda goes with the "dizzee being a bisexual but he never says it in canon" thing cause like...okay dizzee was already sort of a side character from the get go like he wasnt the mc by any means, but he became way more of a background character as things continued until we basically only saw him for performances or when he was with thor, yet they got no fucking development as a pairing other than "dizzee realize he gay, he like thor, he and thor spend time together and ig probably do some gay stuff but we dont really know bc we only ever see them do graffiti together now" like?? tf am I supposed to do with that shit. answer. quickly. and then theres dizzee not being confirmed bisexual, which is just a running problem with shows literally doing everything to say a character is bi except for having the character just...say they're bi? which would be so easy? like a good way dizzee and thor couldve had some development is by thor teaching dizzee things about the queer community that he didnt even know existed, thor couldve helped him understand what being bi meant and helped him label himself and whatnot but instead we got an off screen confirmation that the writers had bisexual in mind when writing him. which is garbagé.

the whole thor and dizzee never having a confirmed relationship status is also a development problem cause like literally nobody knows if they were just friends who made out, maybe fucked, who knows, or if they were dating bc dizzee does give a love confession but a love confession doesn't mean there is a relationship, especially since thor didn't say he was in love either (as far as I remember, I could be wrong, plus whether or not that really happened or was apart of dizzee literally overdosing during a performance is unclear so 🤪)

and now for the biggest issue...bury your gays trope.

during the season 2 finale, dizzee and thor are chased by cops after they are found doing graffiti, one of the cops is able to catch thor while the other chases dizzee into a train tunnel and there is a train seen headed straight for him before the show cuts to black on a train horn. the show writers claim that if they had gotten another season, dizzee wouldve been alive but since they didnt and since that's essentially super fan trivia knowledge, most people dont fucking know that and instead had to watch a black queer teenager chose death over being fucking arrested by a white cop. on top of that, thor didnt see any of that shit because he was caught and the cop started hauling him off while dizzee was still being chased so thor literally has no clue where his friend/possible boyfriend fucking is or that he's likely dead in a goddamn tunnel all alone, unless you count the fucking pig that chased him in there who wouldve died too. this shows rep was so fucking good as far as most shows go on not having major fucking problems, on not being toxic and over sexualized, etc, etc. and then they just. killed a black queer teenager for no fucking reason. like it was literally the last episode ever, it would add nothing to the plot, it would just devastate fans and devastate it fucking did. I dont cry easy but seeing a character I identified with, who I had hyperfixated on, die because he'd rather that than be arrested is terrible. it fucking sucked.

so yeah. that's my all too extensive thoughts/analysis on the get down's queerness. theres definitely stuff I missed, or misinterpreted, or looked too much into, etc, etc., but this was a fun thing to spend time writing sooo yeah!! thanks for the ask anon, sorry this was just a big rambley info dump, but hopefully you get some enjoyment out of it since it took like 3 hours at least 😭😭 feel free to ask clarifying questions lol

[ughgclden]

bee, love, don’t apologise, please, it’s okay, and first and foremost, are you alright?? i hope you’re taking care of yourself, love, but i understand, i don’t think there’s been a year since third grade that i haven’t gotten pneumonia in the winter. I hope you’re feeling alright!!

honestly, dead poets society is one of my only personality traits anymore, i find myself drawing parallels to it constantly, for no reason but i love thinking about it. i’ve watched it so many times at this point, it’s,,, concerning. those tests always take me way less time than they give me, and i used to feel really awkward, i remember i took a bio one once, four hours they gave me, 45 minutes in, i was finished, and the moderator didn’t believe me. i aced it too, like the silly little neil kinnie i am. i’ve gotten used to the ‘worse’ side of being a neil kinnie, and honestly, now that my mum isn’t as controlling about everything as she used to be, it’s easier to deal with. i remember once, i’d gotten an 89 in algebra, and she threatened to pull me out of the fall show. that was a neil perry moment if i ever had one lol. the biggest thing these days is just imposter syndrome, imposter syndrome like oh you’re not hispanic enough, but also, you’re not queer enough, nonbinary enough, things like that. It’s exacerbated some days, but i try.

i watched the it movies on my cousin’s hbo,,, i may or may not have used it without her permission since she forgot to log out of my computer, but that’s neither here nor there. i remember having such a hard time taking the first one seriously initially, because of all the new kids on the block jokes, having a mum who was obsessed with them made it hard, especially when i actually got them all- in truth, the only midnight premiere i’ve been able to make was the force awakens, and i had school the next day too. i’m definitely a richie kinnie, and i have the internalised homophobia (only towards myself though) to prove it /hj my waterbottle has both a sticker of neil on it and a sticker of the r + e carving on it. in case there was any doubt about me lmao. stan kin makes sense for you, honestly, i can see it, i can see it.

okay so listen- no really, i’d bought them with the intention of only drinking half of one that night and spreading them out like that, but then came 9:45pm, and i had a research paper (on womens’ pockets/lack thereof) due at 10am that i simply hadn’t even started, so i downed them all in an hour and got the paper turned in at 5:56 in the morning. but i scare you huh? /hj bee, you’re too sweet, in truth, i’m fairly inelegant, but i try, as for the comforting and cosy, i’ll take you at your word, since that is something only someone interacting with me could discern. i do try to be kind to others for the most part. mainly i think because i’m usually on the other end of mean people.

i’m just perceptive like that bee, i dunno what to tell you, something just tells me, you know? /j and thank you, i always feel a little silly talking about it, because most of the tattoos i want are dead poets society tattoos, i guess some part of me, within the part of me that feels so incredibly tied to it, feels as if if i were able to get a tattoo i’d owe it to the movie in some way, if that makes any sense. i’ve already begged a friend of mine to go with me to get my first once i get to new york, the question though, is what to get first. i’ve got time to make a decision (for once in my life) i just spend a lot of time thinking about it.

honestly, i have never known a school rule to make sense. banning ripped jeans? banning dyed hair? it’s almost as if if they don’t stifle everything natural about kids expressing themselves they dont feel like they’re doing anything. but i digress. the same-sex couple rules were. awful. 12 year old me had enough going on without having an administrator yell at my friend and i for hugging in the courtyard and not leaving until we were a foot apart, but hey.

okay, jumping over a fence to go to a mcdonalds? how coming of age indie movie manic pixie dream girl of you /hj

200k words, is that a challenge? also ahaha not at all like my italian uncle up there just opened a ‘pizzeria’ /hj but mob!star au? might be a project i should start… granted, i’m not as good a storyteller as you, but i can try.

when i was little, i wanted to revolutionise things, i guess. i even actually wrote out a campaign, i wonder if its still somewhere. thank you for believing in me, but these days, bee, i’m thinking less about changing the world, and more about making it the next few weeks, and then the ones after that. little star was aware of so much, but also so little. i wonder what they’d think of me now, honestly.

i did, in fact, teach archery, it was so fun but my arms got SO SORE, and the kid who challenged my archery skills seemed surprised when i actually,, hit the bullseyes. my inner susan was happy then. incidentally the experience is also why i made a playlist called “touchstarved and wanting to teach you to shoot a bow” which low-key slaps when i’m lonely. and bee omg i cannot believe you said im better than susan pevensie i will be thinking about this for the rest of my life thank you- and yes, yes it was named aslan, however did you guess? /j prince caspian<33333

i’ll let you know my results from the tournament, as soon as they come out, and i say this having just put on pjs after taking off my suit, and sitting in the room with my cat in my dear evan hansen hoodie, frantically refreshing the results page because i’m anxious and impatient.

i hope you have a good night, with fitful and restful sleep, i’m sorry this got to be so long, but you know me, i certainly can talk. i’m honestly shocked i even made it to finals, considering i was running off four hours of sleep, having gone to bed at three last night. whoops.

all my love, hugs, and a warm mug of tea,

yours,

star✨

p.s i said yes so that?? happened?? it honestly feels surreal but we’re not gonna be in the same place anymore come the end of this year, so that’ll be something to deal with

P.p.s might just start adding spanish or latin or russian phrases to these if i keep having to translate your cute french bee /lh /hj

star my love, i know you said don't apologise, but i think the word 'sorry' makes up about 60% of my vocabulary. i'm okay!! was just a bit icky, but luckily i've recovered now!!

that's so nice - and again, makes so much sense for you. i think you would work perfectly in welton, i know it. i love bringing the messages from that film into my own life, as silly as it may sound. i'm astonished, and so fucking jealous of you. i used to finish tests maybe half an hour early, but hours is so impressive??? fun fact i did finish my physics final in about 45 minutes and slept for the other hour <3 neil would b proud my love!!! oh my god - i'm so sorry that happened??? but that is also so neil kinnie??? it seems futile me saying this, but i assure you that you are hispanic enough, and queer enough, and non-binary enough. you are enough, period. more than enough even. imposter syndrome is the worst, and i'm so so sorry you're dealing with it.

she did that to herself, you just saw an opportunity /lh a midnight premiere of the force awakens sounds so cute though omg - i hope you had the absolute best time. the r + e carving actually broke me. as a die hard reddie shipper since 2017, seeing the movie make it basically canon?! had me a mess in the cinema.

you are ridiculously comforting and cosy, everything about you feels like a warm hug from a familiar face and i love it. and the way you write is so smooth, it makes me think of a quill smoothly gliding across parchment, the deep black ink unsmudged and pristine. that seems a little pretentious of me, but oh well.

i also want some dps tattoos!! i desperately want "and still we sleep" from todd's poem, and was also so so tempted to get an outline drawing of meeks + pitts dancing on the roof. i love that, and i can't wait until the day you get it, whichever one it may be. my one concern is becoming addicted to them and making my bank account suffer - at least my piercing obsession is a little easier to fund /hj

i've NEVER gotten that - they claim it's 'distracting' but how on earth would it be?? when i got to college, no one was distracted by my dyed hair, and i certainly wasn't distracted by other people's outfits or painted nails. you were yelled at. for hugging. a friend.. what the fuck is wrong with these people??

just call me ramona flowers star /j it was possibly the highlight of my school career, sans hiding in the back room of the music room to avoid a maths test

i bet you're an amazing storyteller, if these letters are anything to go by. it would be a new york times best seller, i know it

we all have to take things one step at a time, i think. that's the only way i really get through things if i'm honest. one day after another and the cycle repeats. i love wondering what young me would think of me now - i'd probably be intimidated of myself, but i like to think i'd be proud that i'm still here, pursuing something i love

that playlist. sounds nothing short of sheer perfection. i too am touch starved and want to teach someone to shoot a bow - even though i.. cannot shoot a bow... but i can wield a sword so, it's close enough.

i saw your message about the tournament results - im so fucking proud of you!!!! you deserve it so so much and i couldn't be happier for you. see, your words and ideas are changing the world, even if you don't realise it.

ps; that is so fun???? omg im so happy for you star, you deserve tis <33 i hope towards the end of this year whatever happens leaves you both happy, no matter how far the distance.

pps; omg no.. please don't do that.. aha that would be awful... definitely wouldn't make my heart race.. haha not at all

all of my love, star. pardon the pun, but you are out of this world ;) i'll leave you with one of my favourite quotes;

il n'y a qu'un bonheur dans la vie, c'est d'aimer et d'être aimé <3

[princepriestandpirate]

hm it's A Lot so u can skip questions but abc's for lael !!

i did all of this out of hubris and pride so here u go enjoy

A: Aptitude1. what are your oc’s natural abilities, things they’ve been doing since young?

they’ve had a little scientist’s/engineer’s instincts from a young age! they’ve always been very smart and had a good eye for figuring out how systems and mechanical things function, through observation and taking them apart

2. what activities have they participated in?

this is so vague but like. a lot of magitech stuff? and robot fighting when they were in school. and as a kid a lot of running around in nature, exploring and observing and messing with everything. 

3. what abilities do they have that they’ve worked for?

they have a natural knack for it, but all their knowledge of robotics, magic, and nature is stuff they took upon themself to study

4. what things are they bad at?

they’re not terrible athletic, and they really havent put much effort into developing people skills. 

5. what is their most impressive talent?

probably to other people the fact that they do magitech

B: Basics1. what is their hair color?

black

2. what is their eye color?

dark brown

3. how tall are they?

about 5′7″

4. how old are they?

31

5. how much do they weigh?

no clue! im bad at figuring this stuff out. body type wise tho, they’re on the leaner side bc elf heritage but also. very squishy.

C: Comfort1. how do they sit in a chair?

almost never with both feet on the ground, at least with one leg up or crossed, sometimes with feet on the seat, but generally with limbs going wherever, one arm hooked over the seatback, etc. there is no order here

2. in what position do they sleep?

they can sleep anywhere and tend to either splay out with limbs everywhere or curl up tight around a pillow

3. what is their ideal comfort day?

hang out at home, read some books, eat their childhood favorites, and hang out with their parents, maybe fuck around out in nature for a bit

4. what is their major comfort food? why?

this chicken and vegetable soup that their dad would make for them when they were sick, it’s heavy and comforting and magically makes them feel a little bit better

5. who is the best at comforting them when down?

their parents, but in different ways– their mom does more of the physical ‘taking care of them’ stuff when comforting, and their dad gets more into the emotional comfort stuff

D: Decoration1. how would they decorate a house if they had one under their name?

they do have a house! although it’s also first and foremost a lab, but that’s pretty on brand for them anyway. it’s a lot of tools and practical stuff, and a lot of the furniture is based off of personal comfort or use rather than style. for decoration though there’s some blueprints and pictures pasted to the walls. the colors in general are warmer ones, and the place overall gives the impression of not being necessarily Nice but comfortable and lived in. it’s very much Lael’s Space

2. how would they decorate their child’s room?

they. would not have children. 

3. how do they decorate their own room?

same with the house– very comfortable and useful, pictures and diagrams pasted on the walls, and lots of space for books and knick-knacks along with work room

4. what type of clothes and accessories do they wear?

they have sort of a Style but it’s also pretty chill and comfortable, made to be moving around in their workroom or working outdoors. lots of basic light-weight short sleeve shirts or button-ups, pants w lots of pocket space, overalls, tool belts, etc. if they dress fancier it’s pretty basic and streamlined, look-wise, nothing very flashy or fancy unless it’s the holidays and someone makes them.

5. do they like makeup/nail/beauty trends?

not at all, that’s a lot of extraneous effort they’re not willing to put in, esp since they dont necessarily see a lot of other people regularly

E: External Personality1. does the way they do things portray their internal personality?

pretty much, yeah. lael doesn’t see the point in trying to put on a nice face for anyone else. they’re a little softer than they appear on the outside tho.

2. do they do things that conform to the norm?

they dont care much about the norm, but they’ll go along with some stuff for the sake if it being easier (although it’s not common for them). they always tend to grate against norms a little bit in general tho

3. do they follow trends or do their own thing?

do their own thing. they’ve always been something of an outsider, even in their own community, so they don’t see the value in trying to follow what others are doing.

4. are they up-to-date on the internet fads?

the internet doesnt exist but. no. they dont really follow fads or trends outside of their own fields, where they keep up with trends but ultimately follow their own ideas.

5. do they portray their personality intentionally or let people figure it out on their own?

in some ways, yes-- they tend to broadcast their own aggressiveness and weirdness so that people know what they’re about and stay away if they’re not interested. other stuff they let people find out on their own, esp emotional soft spots and their occasional gentleness, etc

F: Fun1. what do they do for fun?

science! studying bugs and stuff. and they like gardening a lot, and doing science on the plants. when they were younger they went out more and also participated in some robot-fighting circles in their spare time.

2. what is their ideal party?

they’d think back to the days when they lived in gelt and there were some wild parties with fellow magitechnicians their age– nowadays they’d like something a bit more chill, but a good party for them would entail hanging out and drinking with other people/friends in their field

3. who would they have the most fun with?

mostly old school friends

4. can they have fun while conforming to rules?

not really, no– they dont have to break the law, but they’re always going to rub up against restrictions. everything is more fun when you have room to explore and make a little bit of trouble

5. do they go out a lot?

nope, they live out in the country and spend a lot of time working. they went out more often when they were young, though

G: Gorgeous1. what is their most attractive external feature?

those high cheekbones!!

2. what is the most attractive part of their personality?

their passion! when they care about something they Care, and it can be a little bit infectious

3. what benefits come with being their friend?

long intellectual conversations & having a friend that will 100% fight for you if you’re close enough

4. what parts of them do they like and dislike?

this is... not something they think about a lot, i’m not sure they are terribly introspective. but i think they like their own curiosity and novel approaches to problems, and dislike some of the issues they have interacting w others (but they dont think about it too hard)

5. what parts of others do they envy?

they’ll never admit it, but they’re jealous of people who can move through social situations with a ton of ease.

H: Heat1. do they rather a hot or cold room?

cold, they’re not a big fan of the heat

2. do they prefer summer or winter?

neither, but summer slightly more just because nature is much more active

3. do they like the snow?

it’s fine. pretty but also a pain in the ass

4. do they have a favorite summer activity?

bug huntin’! exploring nature! looking at plants and wildlife! taking notes!

5. do they have a favorite winter activity?

staying inside where it’s warm and working on projects. and they complain but they don’t entirely hate the rituals of going to see family during winter holidays

I: In-the-closet1. what is their sexuality?

bi/pan, idk if they have a preference label-wise

2. have they ever questioned their sexuality?

i’m not sure if they had a lot of expectations imposed on them in terms of what’s ‘normal’ sexuality-wise, but they def came to the realization of being not-straight at some point

3. have they ever questioned their gender?

im not sure they ever had a time where they didnt see themselves as non-binary, they maybe messed around w gender as a kid but fairly quickly settled on their current state of not giving a shit

4. would/was their family be okay with them being LGBT?

what’s homophobia this is fantasy land

5. how long would/did it take for them to come out?

idk if they actually came out ever, everyone just sorta knows

J: Joy1. what makes them happy?

magitech, exploring nature, weird bugs, learning new things

2. who makes them happy?

their family, their mentor, other magitechnicians who they can talk to and share ideas w

3. are there any songs that bring them joy?

songs that their parents would sing when they were young– either as lullabies or songs their father would sing while working

4. are they happy often?

lael’s emotions go all over the place, and i don’t know if they’re truly happy super often, but they’re overall content with the shape of their life right now

5. what brings them the most joy in the world?

those moments when they’re working and finally Get something or know exactly how something needs to work

K: Kill1. have they ever thought about suicide?

not really, no

2. have they ever thought about homicide?

…..yes, but more fantasizing than intent to act on it

3. if they could kill anyone without punishment, would they? who?

they would at least seriously consider it, and it’d be either their ex or whoever fucked gil up so badly

4. who would miss them if they died?

their family, a few friends

5. who would be happy they died, anyone?

hopefully no one? lael is not someone with a few friends, but while they certainly have people who dislike them, they have very few, if any, outright enemies. (to their knowledge?)

L: Lemons1. what is their favorite fruit?

they enjoy citrus but rarely get their hands on it, living in a more temperate climate. otherwise they like sour apples a lot! and blackberries

2. what is their least favorite fruit?

not a fan of pears (it’s a texture thing + they’re a bit too sweet)

3. are there any foods they hate?

not really, most of their food-dislikes are pretty mild. 

4. do they have any food intolerances?

lael is lactose-intolerant! this does not stop them from consuming dairy products.

5. what is their favorite food?

they really like the beef stew the had when they were younger! they dont get it as often now tho, only when they get home

M: Maternal1. would they want a daughter or a son?

they don’t want kids

2. how many children do they want?

zero

3. would they be a good parent?

no, they’re too obsessed with work to take care of anyone else

4. what would they name a son? what would they name a daughter?

not only do they not want kids but they are notoriously bad at naming anything and should not be allowed to do so to an actual child.

 5. would they adopt?

nope.

N: Never Have I Ever1. what would they never do? 

i don’t think they could ever like.... willingly submit to someone else? whether that be a god or a ruler or a boss. they might go along with them in some circumstances but they could never be truly devoted to someone above them

2. what have they never done that they want to do?

3. is there anything they absolutely can’t believe people do?

kind of related to #1, they think it’s wild that people follow others w/o any questioning or thinking about it for themself. even w stuff as small as w/ reading a science book-- if lael has the ability to test something out for themself they will before they trust someone else’s perspective

4. what is the most embarrassing thing they’ve done?

once tried to impress a crush by giving them a bug. it did not go well.also that one time that they got a drunken tattoo (altho i dont think they regret it-- they just don’t show it off)

5. have they done anything they thought they’d never do?

lael never really thought of themself as the type to be a teacher, so the fact that they want to and are going to try to teach some stuff to arabella is unexpected for them, even if they themself suggested the idea

O: Optimism1. are they optimistic or pessimistic?

i think they alternate depending on the situation? they tend to be pessimistic when it comes to people and their motives, but optimistic in regards to progress/science/their own work

2. are they openly optimistic, throwing it on others?

they aren’t very openly optimistic, it only really shines through when they start talking about the future of magitech or some shit

3. are they good at giving advice?

not at all! unless it’s help with a project, then maybe. dont go them to them for personal advice though-- most of the good advice they have is just verbatim from other people

4. is there anyone in their life that throws optimism on them?

their parents, esp their dad, are much more optimistic about things

5. were they always optimistic?

they’ve always been pretty optimistic about certain things, like magitech. but they learned pretty young to not be optimistic about others, and they became even more pessimistic in that area as time has gone on

P: Personality1. what is their best personality trait?

their intense love of knowledge and passion for their work

2. what is their worst personality trait?

they’re kind of an asshole and care very little about what others think of them, for better or worse. 

3. what of their personality do others love?

dm quote: “Other magitechnicians admire their ingenuity and focus, Gil and their parents love their quiet dedication and the joy they take in their passions”

4. what of their personality do others envy?

the fact that they seem to care very little of others’ opinions of them

5. do they hate anything about their personality/about other’s personalities?

they tend to dislike others who are ‘fake’ and not straightforward with their intentions. as for themself, the fact that they do not have a lot of self control, ESPECIALLY when it comes to their shit taste in romantic partners

Q: Questions1. do they ask for help?

not often, if they can avoid it, but at the end of the day they’re more concerned w progress than pride

2. do they ask questions in class?

they’re the type of kid to ask too many questions in class, actually

3. do they answer questions that make them a little uncomfortable?

they might, but they’ll generally call out the other person for asking uncomfortable questions as well

4. do they ask weird questions?

very! they did moreso as a kid, they’ve developed SOME tact now

5. are they curious?

oh yeah they’re SUPER curious about stuff, but only when it’s in their field of interest (ex: they dont care much about gossip at all, not when cool bugs exist)

R: Rules1. do they follow rules?

only when it benefits them or it aligns with their own beliefs.

2. would they be a strict or laid-back parent?

they would… not be a parent. but if they were, a fairly distant and laid back one.

3. have they ever been consequenced for breaking a rule?

almost definitely, but mostly stuff like “taking worms inside the house” or “getting in fights w others” (rarely) or generally being a weird chaotic shit as a kid. they break less rules now but mostly bc they care about keeping their job

4. have they broken any rules they now regret breaking?

hm. i don’t think so. they’re not the type to have many regrets.

5. do they find any rules they/others follow absolutely ridiculous?

they have Thoughts about some Taliare rules that limit magitechnicians and impede progress. they also have issues w bureaucracy in general

S: Streets1. are they street-smart?

they are generally pretty good at reading others and judging their intentions, but they’ve def focused more attention on book-smarts

2. would they give money to someone on the streets?

honestly? probably not, but more out of not wanting to interact with strangers than any sort of malice

3. have they ever gotten in a fight on the streets?

realistically absolutely yes, once as a kid and one or two times when they were going through their first round of magitech school.

4. has anything happened to them on the streets?

they probably got pickpocketed once or twice in gelt

5. are they cautious when out?

only a bit, but they’re very capable of protecting themself if it comes down to it (they’ve got a knife! and magic!)

T: Truth1. are they honest?

on principle, and sometimes to a fault

2. can they tell if someone is lying?

usually yeah, they can get a good read on others

3. is it obvious when they’re lying?

they rarely lie they, so they don’t have a ton of practice at it, and i think someone who knows them well or is pretty intuitive they’d be able to pick up on it

4. have they lied about anything they regret lying about?

i don’t think they lie enough for this to be the case? it’s mostly white lies if anything

5. have they told truths that have been spread against their will?

nope, not really.

U: Underdog1. have they been bullied?

when they were younger, yes. partially bc of being a half elf in an almost entirely human town (which made them a very easy target) and partially bc they were just a weird fucking kid

2. have they bullied anyone?

they’ve been MEAN to people but not actively bullied anyone. they did break a kid’s nose once but he deserved it.

3. have they been physically attacked by a bully?

i dont think so, i think it was more teasing and ostracism. any physical attacks were pretty mild or on their possessions. i think once someone tried to get physical but they were scared off by the only other non-human in town (besides lael’s dad), an older half-orc boy named Cyrus, and they never tried to attack lael again.

4. have they ever been doubted?

i mean, yes almost definitely, altho i cant give u an example

5. have they surprised people with being good at something?

i feel like when they were young and first showed talent w magitech they surprised some ppl. also, when they lived in gelt i think the fact they knew so much about nature and medicine was unexpected to ppl who just met them, but for anyone who knew them well it wouldnt be surprising at all

V: Vomit1. do they vomit often?

not really, unless they’re sick

2. do they get lots of stomach aches?

not really, they dont eat particularly out-there food and their stomach isnt overly sensitive

3. are they good at comforting someone ill?

lael isn’t good at comforting period, they’re more the type to just go through necessary medical stuff but they do not have very good bedside manner.

4. what do they like as far as comfort goes?

they like to be in a place they’re comfortable, like home, and with people that Get them, w like a nice blanket, and more physical affection than usual.

5. do they burp, cough, or hiccup most when nauseous? when vomiting?

i do not know or care

W: Water1. do they drink enough water?

they probably forget while they’re working. their mom gets on them about this when they come home tho

2. have they learned to swim?

probably only the very basics, they dont live around any large bodies of water so they’re not super proficient

3. do they like to swim?

not really

4. can they dive?

o def not

5. can they swim without holding their nose?

i would hope so?

X: Xylophone1. what is their favorite genre of music?

i don’t know if they’re super up to date on music? in a modern day setting they’d be into all sorts of electronic music tho

2. do they have a favorite song?

again, not modern day so idk

3. do they have a favorite band/artist/singer?

not in-game, but they’d probably be very into all sorts of weird electronic music and lo-fi stuff that mixes ‘real’ sounds, like snail’s house

4. can they sing well?

oh no they’re not very good at it at all

5. can they rap?

….probably not

Y: You1. how old were you when you created them?

21! i made them this year

2. what inspired you to create them?

i figured if i was gonna play a character in a magitech universe i wanted them to be related to that in some way. basically they were created with the idea of “i want to play a character with a robot arm” and literally their entire backstory and personality is descended from that fact. 

the other thing is that i was learning about biomimicry-technology in german class and i thought it’d be cool to have an engineer character that very much loved and was influenced by nature

3. were they different when they were first created?

oh i first thought that their personality would be more stoic and distant, but in reality the most core thing about their personality is how fucking passionate they are about things

4. do you enjoy writing them more than other characters?

again, i dont really love playing one character more than others, i just love them for different reasons! but lael is particularly fun to play because it’s fun to not worry much about coming off as “nice” to others, and also I Love Magic. it’s also fun to play someone so passionate about their studies and work bc i can channel myself into that!

5. what’s your favorite thing about them?

man honestly it’s that aforementioned passion that they have for what they do, and their endless curiosity about how things work and how to make them better

Z: Zebra1. what’s their favorite animal?

spiders!!! they love creepy crawlys and bugs in general though

2. do they like animals?

yes but more in a scientific way than a ‘wants to have a lot of pets’ way. and it’s generally more reptiles/insects/arachnids than furry animals

3. cats or dogs?

cats

4. what’s their dream pet?

a tarantula! or a cool lizard

5. do they have any pets at the moment?

nah, but they have plants

[iheardyourprayer]

Thank you, this is almost exactly what I've been trying to put together and say for the last two days.

There is absolutely no way that this ending could happen accidentally. Someone who didn't care deeply about Dean wouldn't have been able to so thoroughly destroy him. The total precision with which John Winchester is woven into this episode is so deliberate. I know for a fact that Dabb did this on purpose. Made this awful ending. And maybe his intentions were to pull back the curtain for us and to get revenge for us against the system he has been fighting to reshape for the last 4 years. But we didn't need that.

We have known for years that the producers, the execs, the network, tptb dont give a shit about us or these characters. Some (a lot) of fans lump the writers in with those. But for others the one thing we had left was the writers. The writers who we watched so carefully craft this beautiful story in the last couple of years - for Deancas, for Dean, for Cas, for women in this show, for the show as a whole - we saw them fight to give us what we got. And instead of Dabb giving us an ending he and we could be proud of (if not somewhat disappointed with), he worked just as hard to teach us a lesson and make a statement against the industry and tptb.

Like no, we been knew that they only care about money and their original 'middle america' audience and not taking risks. We knew there was not so quiet homophobia, we knew they hated Misha/Cas for messing with JuSt ThE BoYs, we knew they were sexist. We knew that and all Dabb accomplished for the majority of the fandom was cementing the idea that the writers never cared about these characters. imo Dabb and his team should have prioritized giving these characters endings they could be proud of despite what they couldn't do in the end. Jensen, Misha, and Jared all deserved that. Not only did it hurt us while aiming at the cw/wb, they also hurt the cast/crew (feelings and reputation: looking at Jensen being labeled as homophobic!) Yeah it sucks absolute ass that we couldn't finish the story that s15 was telling the way he wanted. Thats seriously not fair and really sad for what huge groundbreaking narrative could have happened. But to throw the whole thing out, not address any of the loose threads, and light the whole thing on fire when you leave??

Yeah, i am one of those people that thinks it was childish and disrespectful for him to make that choice. He is such a talented writer that i know he could have made something that followed the stupid constraints and comments from the one's stuck in the mentality of prior showrunners while still being mostly fulfilling for the story he was telling. Instead we get "You want oNlY AbOuT ThE bOyS?? Fine, w*ncest!" "You want it like the beginning? Fine, nothing has changed and no character development has happened." "You want classic spn? No women with agency; no family but the two of them - no cas, no eileen, no jack; and definitely no gays!"

It reeks of a tantrum. He clearly cares a lot about these characters and relationships and he has done so much not only as head honcho but before that too! And i guess i will never know what it felt like to be told to go for it and do what you planned and have that ripped away and be so hurt by that that he would take these characters and relationships he cared about so much and do this.

You know after reading and reading and reading peoples theories and the meta from before the spn finale aired and the meta writers reactions to the finale I think I have a theory of my own. We don't have any answers tho, so this is pure speculation. If you wanna add something to support or discredit any of this that's cool but there's too many things floating around. Know I dont have proof for this conclusion at all. A lot of what I say is just guesses based on previous facts.

This all came together in my head when I realized how much this finale REEKS of the original producers and who the show was originally for. It REEKS of Robert Singer. Like if the execs started saying they didn't want it, Robert Singer was the one pushing that the story was about the brothers. That kinda thing.

Then, I was thinking of the problems in this episode and it struck me these are all of Supernatural biggest issues and to be honest all of it feels completely deliberate.

Take the sexism for example, Supernatural in it's later seasons largely out grew this, we have Jody, Rowena, Donna, Charlie, Mary, Claire (and even a wayward sisters pilot with MORE women/girls) all making regular appearances. They're mainly good characters and mostly aren't there to hurt our boys. Rowena, of course, is the one outlier being very about herself but it's clear she still cares for them, I mean its part of her development. But they're all real, with character flaws just like everyone else. (And we have Death too and she was POC 😭 THANK GOD)

Now look at the earlier half of Spn, we have Ellen and Jo, who's appearances were far in between. There's Bela in season 3, recurring for quite a bit (5 eps), but she is a character that is only there for herself, definitely not found family (unlike Ellen & Jo), and she's got more episodes in season 3 than Ellen and Jo in season 2 who aren't seen again til season 5. The "fans" send in hate mail after hate mail to try to get these characters off, and eventually they are. Then there's Ruby who's character stayed for a whole two seasons and was a largely recurring character. Why does she get to say so long? She's a plot device. She's supposed to be there to betray Sam. She has to stay (plus Jared obviously likes her). But she's not just a character the writers like writing about. Same with Lilith. Obviously not as recurring but still a plot device. Did they get hate mail tho? You can bet on it. Why? because tHeY'rE gOnNa PuSh ThE bOyS (Dean and Sam) aPaRt ThE sHoW iS aBoUt ThE bOyS oNlY. Without even thinking about the hate mail, just notice how large the difference is from how women are seen in the earlier seasons to the later seasons. Misha got tons of hate mail too for being a character that could split up the boys (probably only being allowed to say because he a man, thanks sexist producers and execs).

Only after Castiel was killed off and then Castiel fans successfully (thank you guys) got him back on the show did the hate mail largely simmer, which means female character's were allowed to stay! Which has lead us to a show with a good amount of female characters. But can you imagine having to kill characters off time and time again because people keep complaining that the show is "only about the boys." Fun times really.

So now we get to this final and we see sexism. But it wasn't just the plain old regular sexism you find in the earlier days of spn. Because now, there ARE women to talk about, talk to. But this episode was DESOLATE women wise, unless they were used for plot (which is also sexist!). Small scenes, they're barely there. Women gets her tongue cut out. Random women from s1 gets killed. Sam doesn't SPEAK of Eileen. Nothing. No mention of any female characters from the boys mouths unless they were from/in this episode itself. That's WIERD. I know we've all said it. But that goes beyond forgetting about characters. I mean its SAM'S GIRLFRIEND for Christ's sake. There is NO REASON they couldn't have said Eileen's name. Notice how Sam's wife is just... faceless. This is literally an age old sexist trope. Like... one of the things about bringing Mary back to life for s12+ is that it takes this trope... of basically a generic mother, and gives her life and feelings, whether you like them or not, they're real feelings. They said Mary isn't just a mom she's a person. Mary's existence in the later half of spn is to fix this kind of female tropes that fall upon her character, to not let these her stay a 2 dimensional character. They said we should know she's more than just the mom who tried to save her kid. Do that is the exact opposite of Sam getting a nameless, faceless wife. The sexism of the old spn wasn't just brought back, it was completely amplified. It wasn't just accidental or some exec "fixing" the story it was DELIBRATE. Whoever wrote that, didn't do ALL OF THAT by accident. Because an exec or a producer who doesn't see the flaws in old supernatural isn't going to write it that deliberately.

Let's bring it back to s10 when Charlie was killed (singer was mainly to blame). Dead in the bathtub, age old classic of burying ur gays. If you were here you know people never let Supernatural live that down. THEY KNOW what bury ur gays means. Hell, Robbie Thompson left because of Charlie's death and you think the writers don't know what it means? I mean both Bobo Berens (especially) and Steve Yockey's careers are centered around LGBT+ storytelling and you think they don't know? They know. They know.

And Dean wasn't just apart of the bury your gays trope, it is so far BEYOND that. Dean being killed on a rusty nail/screw, the tongues ripped out, things that seemed to be meant for other people. Jensen's acting in the last two episodes was giving us "DEAN RECIPROCATES" but no one ever actually saying it. I think it's clear that Dean was killed for being Bi. They didn't address it for a reason, they just silenced him. His narrative was supposed to be about letting him be HIM for the first time, to say what his feelings are instead of having them miscommunicated, and instead of doing that, they just silenced him. And the more we look at this scene the more horrific it gets. The more it's a complete slap in the face and it's supposed to be. Some guy who knows nothing about the LGBT can't write a scene this horrific.

Some guy who knows nothing about Dean couldn't write a scene that deconstructs all of Dean's character development and gives Dean his worst nightmare. I MEAN DEAN WANTED TO LIVE HIS LIFE! THEY DIDNT HIDE THAT JOB APPLICATION (or whatever job related thing that was) IN THERE FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES THEY WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE WORST SITUATION. Dean isn't Barney from HIMYM. If you watched HIMYM then you'll know Barney went from being a stereotypical ladies man and treating women terribly to being in love with a women and treating her right and working hard for it. The last episode of HIMYM (why its so bad) Barney's character development is thrown out and he's back to being a stereotypical ladies man. You don't need to know Barney's character very much to do that.

To kill Dean during a hunt his father never finished, to not have anyone at his funeral, to have Dean die young like his life didn't matter. Those are Dean's worst fears and you'd only truly know that if you watched the gin episode in s3, where they are basically laid out for you. You HAVE to know Dean's character to tear him apart like this.

This episode took all the core elements of the show and did a complete 180° the name of the episode itself is "Carry on" and Dean and Sam very much did not carry on. Sam grieving his entire life so that he good get to heaven and see Dean again. Dean being ready to live his life, despite the enormous pitfalls and learning to love himself only to be killed. "Family don't end with blood." Um.... it did in that episode either literally with Dean's death or you know BECAUSE NONE OF THEIR FOUND FAMILY WAS THERE. Not Jack, Not Cas, Not Eileen, Not Donna, Not Charlie, Not Jody, Not Claire... on and on we go. No one was there, nobody was even mentioned. Dean's funeral, no one even called that we know of. It was just Sam and Dean. Sam and Dean. And Bobby. Don't forget Bobby. But yeah Sam and Dean.

That's what the show is about right, the brothers.

Except it's not anymore. It hasn't been for years.

Cas not being there was deafening but it brought us to a major point. Becky. Becky's telling us about the terrible ending.

And many of us are wondering why would they literally tell us this is the worst ending and then... make it the ending.

Now before we move on, it very apparent many of you think Dabb doesn't ship Deancas. And Dabb doesn't care about the characters.

Say what you will about any plot holes in his writing, the point he is VERY GOOD at writing the characters, and giving us good ones.

Why do we know Dabb ships Deancas? (ill say when its cowrote, other wise its not) cowrote ep 8.02 - purgatory "I prayed to you, Cas, every night" "Cas, Buddy, I need you." "I have a price on my head, and I've been trying to stay one step ahead of them, to – to keep them away from you." 8.08 Hunteri Heroici - Cas helps them hunt! 😊❤ Dean & Cas have a serious convo about why Cas doesn't want to see/go to heaven. 8.22 Dean's mad at Cas. Sam's explanation of why Dean should be easy on Cas: "It's Cas." Dean then points out how he'd knife anybody else if they did what Cas did. 9.10 - Cas comforts Dean when Dean can't take seeing Sam (Gadreel) being tortured anymore. Also tons of Cas. 9.20 (bloodlines) - Canonical couple parallel "I was there, where were you" 9.22 The angels make Cas choose between them and killing Dean and he "gave up an entire army for one guy" 10.09 Claire's reintroduction. Cas heavy ep. DeanCas date. 10.22 THE PRISONER - u know the ep where Dean beats the shit out of Cas but loves him enough to not kill him.

We COULD keep going but I think I've made my point. If Robert Singer is the guy that is like "the show is about Sam and Dean only" Andrew Dabb is the DeanCas shipper. And you could even say a Cas stan.

Notice! How in s13 for SEVEN episodes we have a story that revolves around Dean's grief about losing Cas. Notice! How often the stories in all these seasons have a focus on their relationship. THAT is Andrew Dabb. If it weren't for him doing that, we wouldn't be able to easily say after Dean's lack of a response to Cas' confession, that Dean reciprocates.

To me, when I was (binge) watching s12 for the first time, I thought damn this is really got a lot of DeanCas. So I went to look at who was in charge, who was writing. I saw Andrew Dabb, associated him with Deancas episodes, saw all the new writers, Bobo, and then I saw that Yockey is known for same sex stories and it clicked. Dabb assembled a team to give us Destiel. THAT WAS IN SEASON 12!!!!!!!!

The amount of people saying he's homophobic flabbergast me. Open your eyes! That isn't what's going on.

Imagine making a show and trying to right all the wrongs of Supernatural. Imagine trying to write the greatest love story ever told and you have the entire season planned out for it to end off beautifully, it may possibly be your greatest achievement when it's done and then boom. someone comes in and tells you you aren't allowed to make Dean bi or make destiel endgame, after he was most probably already given the go ahead.

Sure. You could imply he's bi or into cas still in a way. Still make nice-ish ending. just give everyone what the kinda want.

Or you could scrap the last season, nothing close to a canonical bisexual Dean Winchester or Deancas endgame in site. People can be done with it be happy with the show, continue to live their lives in ignorance as to how close they were to Canon destiel.

OR you can lead everyone to the very closest you can get them to what you were aiming for and then show everyone the ugly truth and reality. Light it all on fire. Burn the show to the ground in your wake. Try your darnedest to making these people's (the people saying no) pockets suffer. Show us, the audience, what happened. Show us what this show really is.

I've seen people talk about the ending being changed during covid but I dont think that happened. I think what happened was Dabb already had this season planned out before it even started. Obviously the details were wobbly but it was all lead up to this ending. Destiel endgame, Canon Bisexual Dean, whatever it was. They were ready to write the greatest love story ever told and then someone shut it down.

Imagine the pain that must have caused them to be told no when they already said yes. They must have been so excited to give this to us.

I think someone (some producers) told him what this show is "really" about. The brothers. Can you imagine, after being told no, some kinda bullshit like this is said to you: "Why aren't you bringing it back to the brothers, Andrew? that's what the shows about. What with all this homosexual stuff, you know the audience won't like that. Not really." Imagine the original producers pushing this kind of view on you. "You know when we started it was Sam and Dean. It should end with Sam and Dean." That kinda sounds like someone huh? huh.

So why give us a nice acceptable finale, when you can take every problem Supernatural's had either up front or behind the scenes and create a finale so incredibly bad that people don't want to watch it anymore.

Someone made a good point about how Sam was originally supposed to be the main focus (this isn't to put any hate on Sam or Jared). Dean and Sam are the main characters but Sam was supposed to be the focus and for Dean to have become the focus, must have annoyed the producers because... well here we are. They wouldn't listen to Jensen. The producers liked this ending. Jensen's opinion didn't matter to them.

In some ways, if this is really what happened, it can be seen as childish from Dabb. To hurt all of us like that. Yes, he's hurting the producers, the execs, the cw. But to hurt us? Yeah it stings.

But in other ways, if this is really what happened, this is Dabb showing us the muck and gunk under the shiny surface. The hate for Misha. The hidden hate for Jensen. The underlying sexism. The underlying homophobia. The people REALLY in charge don't care about us, they just want our money. He needed to open our eyes and free us, at least free the people that he was writing for. The people he sees that care about this show.

This is the ending the powers that be wanted and its a big fuck you for a reason. I dont think this is Dabb spitting in our faces for loving this show, I think this is him trying to get revenge for us.

But from here, you can see it how u want it. If this is really what happened, I'm not in charge of your emotions, if you wanna be mad be mad if you wanna be grateful be grateful. And you don't have to believe me either I said this is speculation.

Also, as for all of the rumors like there being shots to the confession scene that we didn't see, which Jensen himself implied, I think that might have been a last ditch effort to canonized DeanCas but obviously it was cut. Like the name change was pretty clear. As for Misha possibly having shot some stuff for 20 I dont know what to tell you. If it's true I dont know where the blame would lie.

I do think however, that if all this was the case, the writers were prepared to become villians here. I mean they told us the writers were villians with Chuck right? So. Who knows what went down so they could give us such a vile ending. It could've been the producers or the writers, who truly knows. I do think tho that people we "trust" did some pretty shitty things to push the narrative in certain directions so now one would see this as the actual ending that was coming.

So again do with my SPECULATION what you will. This was in no way meant to put Dabb on a pedestal or anything. Just meant to give a bit of perspective.

(Also Jensen didn't unfollow Dabb recently he was already unfollowed for years)

[do-you-have-a-flag]

racism isn't unintentional, they were well aware of what they were doing when they reduced poe to harmful stereotypes and sidelined finn in favor of white ppl, and it was a deliberate and homophobic choice to make everyone straight, none of this is unintentional which is kind of the entire issue and they do not deserve leniency or forgiveness and im glad that it's reflected in audience reviews b/c frankly LGBT and fans of color didn't like it for good reasons dont invalidate that b/c ur white

“at this point im so distracted by the homophobia and racism that every single character being out of character is just like the icing on the cake, like have your opinion on the movie but don’t be surprised that fans we’re digging the blatant racism and homophobia (and seriously, never again say they meant well when writing in racists tropes, thats fucking gross dude)my mood is u using “or*entalist” while trying to explain that you’re not ignoring the racism in the fandom… you literally said it was good intentions gone wrong that led to the racism we saw on screen, it wasn’t! it was white dudes who loved kylo ren as much as every other white person and hated all of the poc in the movie, if lgbt/poc fans are saying the movie was shit you know they’re saying that b/c we got shafted so dont be like “well it had good parts” like who cares, it was bigoted”

firstly: I use the term orientalist in the context of the racist exotification of east asians by western countries, england and america have a history of this, so does australia, I’m specifically addressing that exact form of appropriation as opposed to, for example, the appropriation of black culture, it was an attempt to conjure up specific associations to make a point and i’m sorry i wasn’t clear enough in my use of the word I assumed i would be understood but I should have worded myself better.

like i said before, I can’t speak for the entire lgbt community by from my tiny place in it and for myself I never expect a mainstream genre film coming out at this point in time to give us anything more than maybe audience baiting, tv shows have more freedom but even Star Trek, a franchise of similar standing to star wars, only managed last year to make canon gay characters a thing that wasn’t subtextual and it was only a few seconds of screentime. Is it disappointing and frustrating? Absolutely! we need to keep pushing for representation. but i wouldn’t call it’s exclusion homophobia but rather a result of the inability for the franchise to go beyond what’s safe in representation due to the homophobic culture of the west and in overseas markets (such as china). 

If we’re going to change this garbage representation we have to think nuanced about it, individuals can be pressured to change but we have to understand who they answer to.  Money is of course the root of all this, the fear of losing their biggest over seas market is one thing, if Disney owned Marvel movies edit the race of their character to avoid losing Chana’s audience don’t you think that Disney owned Star Wars might be in the same shitty position in terms of LGBT content? You don’t think that a franchise so entrenched in military skirmishes that WARS is in the title might have some other motivations that we need to examine critically? after all the Pentagon funds movies provisionally based on how positively they show militaristic content, and space fascists aside let’s not forget it is about generals and fighter pilots and bombardiers. there are a lot of institutions at play here in the influencing of how the movie show’s it’s content. it’s not just one man it is many making these bad decisions.

And as for racial representation as i stated i love the casting personally of poe and finn and rose, and the various resistance members, but I cannot speak on their characterisation and stereotypes and would like to see the arguments against them laid out because this really is the point i have least perspective on. 

Racism based on skin isn’t something i face because growing up in australia my mum immigrated here after the white australia policy was already ended, australia is still a racist country and the type of racism my mum and i faced was based on accent and sterotypes about “wogs” and horrible nationalism and islamophobia.  SO I don’t get a say in if it’s bigoted or not. But I do want to be able to talk to people who, because of my weird accent assume i’m american, will let their guard down enough for me to amplify the voices of people of colour concerned about this film. I want to be able to talk to people who because of my presentation of femininity assume i’m straight, will let their guard down, and i can talk to them and about why i think lgbt representation is important and should have been in this film.

my enjoyment of a movie doesn’t make it morally pure, i don’t believe any movie is morally pure, but i think we have to rate these things complexly and I care that it had good parts because kids deserve to see themselves in fun genre movies and this film was a baby step and coul have been better but if people keep buzzing about the stuff they want then the garbage money driven execs might be less resistant next time around

star wars is too big a franchise to die, it survived the prequels after all, so we have to be SPECIFIC with our criticisms if we want change.

listen, you seem determined to hate me and that’s fine, I’d rather you didn’t but you don’t have to like the movie that’s okay. 

bigotry is pervasive in many cultures, we have to get rid of it, and your anger and frustration is an important part of that. 

but i’m only gonna respond with my thoughts and feeling and my thoughts are that if we wanna fix things we have to be clear and nuanced in our discussions before we outright dismiss this type of film, my feelings are that it’s fiction shaped by the climate it was made in and the responses to it are also shaped by that climate and from my position in al this i have some criticisms but overall don’t think it is the be all and end all battlefield for representation.

anyway, another bias i have is i assume that people working on a franchise they love are gonna go in with good intentions, they have their own blind spots and biases that result in bad writing and casting decisions. being aware of these things is not excusing them it’s putting them in context. wanna change it? write about it. be clear. make a vlog. record a podcast. you sent me a message and that amplified your words so that’s a good step forward but you’re still being really vague be more specific

i agree with your concepts but not your specifics because you’re being too general with me. 

i don’t appreciate your tone because i have, you know, emotions, but my emotions aren’t what matter here, i still see what you’re saying and while i don’t agree with how you’re coming at it i think you’re being hyperbolic based on truths. they should have done better.

listen, i don’t know who you are but i’m not here to fight you, hey, what would you recommend I watch instead in terms of film? I can think of some decent scifi and fantasy content that have POC character and/or LGBT content in terms of tv that i have and haven’t watched (luke cage, star trek, the exorcist, raising dion, sense8, Shadowhunters) but it’s not enough and in varying levels of quality but if you have movie recs you think are good on this measure i wanna hear them because everyone deserves good scifi and fantasy stories

[ignisgayentia]

I see that you've blocked me on Twitter. You know, I don't want to be an asshole, I have every intention to send u a DM before I unfollow u, but then I saw ur post that u are now "TERRIFIED". Of me. I thought we used to be friends, and I actually unfollowed u not bc I disrespected ur opinion, but bc I do, and I don't wanna get upset seeing ur tweets. Which is what you're allowed to do, too, and I respect you. But I'm honestly really hurt by how you handled this, Ari. I thought we were friends.

WELL THIS IS REALLY CREEPY CONSIDERING U DELETED UR BLOG so ur like stalking my personal posts BUT HERE WE GO

u deleted ur blog

i wanted to stay in touch, not knowing much abt u, so we followed each other on twitter

out of nowhere u UNFOLLOWED me first on twitter, and i hAD NO FUCKING IDEA WHY

I GO TO UR TWITTER and find out that u basically think americans are privileged and have NO oppression

there is like an ENTIRE thread of u talking shit about me saying that i, or any americans whatsoever, don’t experience oppression and that i’m too privileged

like?? wtf is this tweet:

u calling me immature for blocking someone who has no idea what america is like and telling me that sexism, racism, and/or oppression doesn’t exist in america just because it doesn’t exist in the same way that u experience it (which i never denied) and having an OPPRESSION WAR that i never even fucken started with anyone, let alone u

instead of u coming to me about it i have to read all this horror story bullshit on ur twitter.. u really can’t expect to be friends with someone if u can’t stand to read my tweets or my point of view of anything bc i’m a ‘privileged american’. u don’t support BLM or antifa bc it doesn’t “benefit u” so u have no idea what happens to the unprivileged here but u pretend u do bc u read stuff on the news abt america… Like. i don’t pretend to know what it’s like to live in ur country but u get to pretend to know everything about my experiences in mine?

ANYWAY HERE’s SOME MORE GOD AWFUL TWEETS u wrote about me while u call me “immature”

(TELLING A RAPE VICTIM THAT RAPE CULTURE ISNT REAL IN AMERICA, how classy)

this one is my fav bit of irony:

 and my “political” tweets were about supporting women who come forward against r*pists and shit and u have the nerve to call it ~political opinions u dont wanna see?

u respect my opinions? u care about me? u wanna be friends with me? BITCH WHERE

u “don’t wanna be an asshole” ALRIGHT… sure was it petty to make a post abt u? sure was.. didn’t think u’d see it, didn’t think we’d ever interact again nor were we friends.. u don’t support me or believe in what i go thru is valid bc im an american, that’s not friendship.. 

in ALL SERIOUSNESS, if u have read this far: don’t ever tell someone that they’ve never experienced oppression. don’t ever dismiss the struggle of lives u have no comprehension of understanding. yes, america has privileges that most countries do not. this does not mean that oppression does not exist. an hour away from me, 49 lgbt people were gunned down in a senseless act of homophobia and terrorism. sure, we can get married - but we have to fear for our lives ANY time we want to step outside and live normal lives. this is not simply erased in america. black people and black children are GUNNED down by law enforcement at almost a DAILY rate in america due to systematic racism. those people are afraid to step out of their homes on the daily, but sure - ~slavery and jim crow laws aren’t in effect anymore. trans ppl are murdered almost DAILY here - but sure, technically it’s not illegal for them to wear binders or step outside (as u put, not me). i’m not an idiot; i’m fully aware of how much worse other countries can and do have when it comes to minority groups struggles and struggles in general. but pretending america doesn’t have flaws or struggles simply because we’re america is ignorant, sickening, and honestly hurtful. as people who experience oppression, whether it every day things or in violent deadly ways - we have to support one another, we have to uplift one another and give voice to struggles happening everywhere, even if u think u have it “worse”. change doesn’t happen when one cannot see outside their own way of thinking or footsteps. people are dying. HERE, too. grow the FUCK up.

oh, and ur little “fake rape culture dystopia” comment was absolutely disgusting. as a rape victim at the age of 9-10, by someone i TRUSTED. having to save my best friend from rape - TWICE by OUR (former) best friend. having to walk with her to the bathroom just to pray they won’t target more than one person. someone i knew of at college was drugged, raped, murdered - and they didn’t find the body for YEARS. no one is pretending other countries don’t have it worse, but pretending it doesn’t exist here is absolutely NASTY. 

byeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[eucld]

thoughts on pride

this is probably not going to read coherently but yesterday was my first time going to pride and i have varied and conflicting feelings on it that will be organised into bullet points that mostly have nothing to do with each other i just want to collate my thoughts

for most of the day i felt massively uncomfortable but whats new am i right. In all seriousness though I feel like i had the opposite experience at pride than is the intention- instead of feeling empowered or proud in I felt mostly anxious and somewhat ashamed. i imagine this is due to a combination of just me as a person and internalized homophobia rearing its ugly head

the sponsorship of the event by banks and big businesses was bizarre and jarring, from my point of view it doesn’t seem sincere at all and maybe thats just me being cynical or my socialist views influence that but you cannot deny the irony in a promotional flyer that tells you you should be proud of who you are and then gives you a discount code for 20% off protein powder. like that is some heavy fucking irony 

in Patrick Harvey’s speech before the parade he listed some of the ongoing lgbt issues across the world today including the fact that homosexuality is criminalized in 72 countries and you can face the death penalty in 8, but the only response from the crowd came when he mentioned trump. i have been thinking about this the most but cant find the words yet to express what i want to say but i’ll leave this here for now

people flinched every time a confetti cannon went off

actually seeing homophobic protesters outside of the confines of the internet was the most emotional i felt all day as it both served as a reminder that although scotland is one of the best countries in the world to live as an lgbt person this still happens, and as a reminder that we continue to stand up in the face of this adversity 

on the topic of said homophobes there were police standing next to them with flags painted on their faces encouraging the parade to make as much noise as possible to drown them out and the parade was led by members of the police, while at the same time antifa and trans rights demonstrators were being arrested

nothing particularly insightful here just wanted to make a note of it. At its core i think the reason i felt so out of place is that i dont relate to many aspects of pride and what pride is about. To walk down the street and unapologetically say that im gay is not something im ever going to feel comfortable doing because while i recognise that being gay is something that has shaped a large part of me i don’t want other people to make any assumptions about me. So my problem really is with myself and caring too much about what others think but i dont envisage that problem going away particularly swiftly 

[groundramon]

Let me be very clear:

- it is homophobic to say gay people cant be villains

- it is racist to say POC can’t be villains

- it is transphobic to say nonbinary people cant be villains

- so on and so forth

To say “no, gay people cant be *insert non-sexuality-based thing here* in fiction” is homophobic.  You are saying a gay person cannot be something a straight person can be.  You are saying that on the basis of sexuality, gay people cannot be something straight people can be.  This applies to stuff like...being attracted to the opposite gender (unless they’re bi or pan, in which case they can be attracted to both and still call themselves gay) or heteronormativity, but other than that?  No, a gay person can be anything a straight person can be.

Am I saying that a gay stereotype isn’t offensive?  No, not at all.  But you need to have context to the show and context to the creative process.  A flamboyant gay man who is clearly demonized for his sexuality is offensive.  But a gay man who happens to be flamboyant, as well as many other things (perhaps nerdy, overly enthusiastic about his interests, ect), is not an offensive stereotype - ESPECIALLY if he’s in a story with a bunch of other gay men.

My point is, Joseph in Dream Daddy?  Call it a missed opportunity if you’d like, avoid the game if you’re personally uncomfortable with it all you want (seriously if someone tries to shame you for personally being uncomfortable with it then slap them, you’re by no means required to like the game), but for christ’s sake, demonizing the game and the creators and saying to steal from them is fucking ridiculous and gross.  First off I dont think turning into FUCKING SATAN is a gay stereotype, but if you’re arguing that “oh he could’ve been a great example of a religious gay person”/”homophobes often view the LGBT community as a cult of sorts” then yeah I see your point on how he himself could have some bad implications but...he’s in a game full of single men and single dads?  Were it him on his own then yes, he could unintentionally spread some harmful assumptions about gay people.  But any homophobic mindsets he’d spread are immediately canceled out by the fact that he’s IN A DATING SIMULATOR FULL OF GAY DADS, said gay dads are also well-rounded and lovable characters.  He basically cant contribute to homophobia because he’s locked in a cage full of gay positivity.  Also, a bunch of LGBT+ people worked on the game, so you’re literally calling LGBT+ creators working on an LGBT+ game homophobic and saying that stealing from them is okay.  Nice.  See it’s people like you that are the reason we dont have more LGBT+ creators, but I digress.

I am SO TIRED of hearing “dont make fat characters like food!!” because I know the people who say these kinds of things have good intentions, but you’re focusing on the wrong issue.  The issue is when it’s their only defining trait, or their main defining trait, or one of their main defining traits.  The issue is NOT that they like food.  I’m sick and tired of hearing “Steven and Amethyst are fatphobic” because no, no they fucking aren’t, please stop.  Steven isn’t even shown to like food that much and Amethyst has a lot more to her than the fact that she eats everything.  Amethyst’s love of food is used as a comic relief every few episodes.  That’s it.  And Steven?  The first episode happened, but after that...?  He’s not shown to like food anymore than any other kid.  You’re making me feel bad because I’m a fat person who likes food.  Like I’m all for fat characters having personalities that dont include that personality quirk, but you need to not immediately get up in arms just because a fat character likes food and instead focus on the fat characters that ARE no more than stereotypes.

I get that homophobia and fatphobia are on two different levels as far as stakes go (to the point where I dont even like calling it “fatphobia” but whatever I’m too lazy to not use that term) but it’s the same mindset.  Saying that a character of a certain minority group cannot be a certain vague thing without it being racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/fatphobic/ect is bigoted against said minority group, and I will defend that mindset to my grave.

“Oh but you shouldn’t speak over gay people1!!!”  Listen.  You’re are FREE to be uncomfortable with the game.  I am completely okay if the concept makes you uncomfortable, and I apologize if it’s plastered all over your dash and your blacklist feature can’t get it, or whatever else. (BTW I dont tag Dream Daddy half the time so if you follow me and the game makes you uncomfortable, or any other game/show makes you uncomfortable for that matter, feel free to ask me to tag it!)  You shouldn’t be forced to be exposed to something that you dont like.  But you also shouldn’t force people to not enjoy something just because you find fault with it, and you ESPECIALLY shouldn’t encourage people to FUCKING PIRATE IT.  As I mentioned earlier, YOU ARE TAKING AWAY FROM THE VERY LGBT+ CONTENT CREATORS YOU CLAIM TO BE SUPPORTING.  And besides that, I’m not going to fucking call up my gay friends and be like “uhhh hey can you support what I’m saying so I dont look like a homophobic prick?” because that’s 10x more homophobic than anything I’ve said here.  I’m not speaking over gay people, I’m just agreeing with gay people that disagree with you.  “Listen to gay people” applies to gay people that disagree with you, you know; it’s not a free pass to shut up straight and ace/aro people.

I’ve seen people call Steven Universe homophobic for falling back on too many stereotypes that could give viewers bad impressions of lesbians.  Steven Universe.  And you know what?  Those people express their concerns in a fair, understandable way, and they are 100% allowed to do that and I encourage them to continue dissecting SU as such.  Even overanalysis is beneficial to the content creator.  But SU is also created by a bisexual woman and loved by millions of LGBT+ fans, many of whom have said they’ve become more comfortable with themselves because of SU or have otherwise been helped by the show.  To say that it’s 100% homophobic and enjoying it as pro-LGBT is wrong and that people should be shamed for doing such is taking away other LGBT+ people’s right to enjoy something they love.  Again, “listen to gay people” applies to gay people that disagree with you, too.  You need to listen to them to the same extent that you expect them to listen to you.

But point being, the fact that people are analyzing Joseph’s arc as problematic is okay.  My problem is forcing that on other people.  Making people hate a game even though it brought them some joy at one point because of how you interpreted something, ignoring how revolutionary said game or piece of media is.  Something can be revolutionary and still have problems, so you’re allowed to nitpick and analyze.  But don’t force other people into the same bubble of overanalysis that you’ve found yourself in.

Let people enjoy Dream Daddy without accusing them of being horrible mlm fetishists.  I know for a fact that while I’m sure there are some fetish fans out there, there are plenty more who are in it for the representation and the cute storyline.