#im assuming thats would be the case but i couldnt risk it i wanted that duck!!

[killjoy-prince]

The ducky is mine!! :DDDD

[philipkindreddickhead]

I often seen critiques of make up from an existential/philosophical perspective, but I rarely see criticism of cosmetics from a stand point of the very physical bodily harm it does. I think this is because the number of dangerous ingredients is so massive, and overlapping its an absolutely daunting task. So I've compiled the information I've found and bear with me its a lot. (This is from an American perspective. Sorry, thats what I know. However I would love it if people from other countries had things to add.)

First I want to get the "simple" stuff out of the way. I think almost everyone has heard about bacteria and fungi in makeup and that makeup causes acne from clogging pores. Makeup has a pretty strict shelf life, yet consumers are entirely supposed to self-police as Ive never seen a single expiration date on any cosmetic packaging. (I guess consumers are meant to pull this knowledge out of the ether or something. I only found out about it in a tumblr PSA. I did read that expirys are on products in Europe.) Beauty blenders are the worst offender because theyre almost always moist. When I was taught makeup I was told to wet my sponge so it would soak up less product. If you apply makeup daily your sponge is likely constantly damp. USA Today had an article which said that 96% of sponges had fungi and over 60% had E. Coli in them. But I think what people talk about less is the complication of problems from using other products in conjunction with dirty beauty blenders. USA Today warns its especially dangerous to use beauty blenders if you have damage to your skin like acne, cuts, or dry skin. However the most popular beauty products for washing your face contain walnut pieces for literally scrubbing your skin and creating microabrasions. If youre a frequent makeup user you probably know about the cyclical nature of applying foundation, breaking out, and then applying more foundation to cover the breakout. You may even be using scrubbing cleansers more frequently to combat the acne creating more tears. This can lead to "blood poisoning" and, though neither USA today or Forbes mentions this, blood poisoning (not a medical term btw. Its sepsis.) according to numerous medical sites has the potential to be extremely lethal. The symptoms are so similar to a regular flu its nearly impossible to self-diagnose.

The very first thing I was told when a friend handed me a jar of finishing powder- popular with many beauty gurus for the "baking" technique and considered a must have- was a joke about "clown lung." This was a reference to the main ingredient talc. Talc causes lung problems including cancer and respiratory illness. If anyone remembers the large Johnson and Johnson lawsuit from 2019 it was because theyd been putting talc into baby powder. Talc is dangerous because it's impossible to mine and seperate from ASBESTOS. Some high-end finishing powders will try to sell you on safe talc-free formulas but all the products I looked into contained mica instead which causes pneumoconiosis, colloquially known as "black lung disease." Like fucking coal miners get. Its not just present in finishing powder either. In my research it turned out that talc/asbestos are also present in many eyeshadows and other powder products. [Googleable, evidenced in J&J lawsuit]

Another industry to examine is nail salons. Toluene, Formaldehyde, Dibutyl Phthalate, and Methacrylate compounds are all dangerous ingredients and present in various salon products. These ingredients cause a range of problems from dizziness, drowsiness, birth defects, slow fetal growth, future intellectual disabilities in the fetus, eye skin and throat irritation, coughing, allergic reactions, asthma-like attacks, short-term memory loss, nausea, dermatitis, cancer, and misscarriage. Some nail products advertise that they are 3-free meaning that toluene, formaldehyde, and DP should be absent but often the labels are found to be completely inaccurate. It should be noted that the risk is mainly to salon workers and not patrons but ask yourself if it is right to place other people at serious risk for your aesthetic. OSHA does make an attempt to mitigate these risks however not once in my years of makeup queen did I see a salon following these directives which include constant air monitoring, half mask respirators with chemical cartridges, gloves, long sleeves, and safety glasses. (And Im not even going to touch issues of human trafficking/slave labour out of nail salons one case of which occured 5 days ago two hours away from me) It should also be noted that formaldehyde can also be found in hair relaxers and hair dyes. [Found articles in Scientific American and NYT]

I also found on the FDAs website that many cosmetics include heavy metals like arsenic, mercury, and lead. (Usually accompainied by a picture of lipstick so I assume that is the product most likely to contain it, however campaign for safe cosmetics lists foundation as containing heavy metals, and The Guardian has an article about skin lighteners from Asia and Africa containing mercury.) The website stated that the amount of these heavy metals in cosmetics is "safe" if used as intended. (and I'm going to come back to the concept of "intended use" later because thats a can of worms too) However, when searching for info on heavy metal safety I found this quote in regards to metals in food:

"Certain metals, such as arsenic, lead and mercury, have no established health benefit, and have been shown to lead to illness, impairment, and in high doses, death. Understanding the risk that harmful metals pose in our food supply is complicated by the fact that no single food source accounts for most people’s exposure to metals in foods. People’s exposure comes from many different foods containing these metals. Combining all of the foods we eat, even low levels of harmful metals from individual food sources, can sometimes add up to a level of concern"

So like, which is it? Is it a "safe amount" or is no amount of metal safe? I understand that in the case of certain foods like fish some amount of mercury poisoning is always expected but fish is also something you feed yourself and nourish your body with while cosmetics are completely unecessary to your survival. The mercury problem in fish is also mitigated by health warnings when mercury levels are particularly high but cosmetics have no such warning. Another warning on the site indicated that children should ingest NO amount of lead AT ALL because it is particularly harmful for kids yet theres no effort to stop children from using lead-containing cosmetics. I worked next to a Five Below where I was shocked to find they sold Jeffree Star and Anastasia eyeshadow dupes for five dollars which amounts to fucking pocket change for a lot of kids and kids do buy that stuff. I also think its ironic the FDA would have anything to say regarding cosmetics because in the very same article about heavy metals in cosmetics the FDA says that they DO NOT REGULATE cosmetics beyond the color additives.

Mascara, eyeliner, lipstick, and brow tint often contain carbon black. This is a color additive that is an incomplete combustion of carbon-based products. It can cause lung disease, cancer, and organ system toxicity, and eye, nose, throat irritation. The effects are mainly studied in rats and those at biggest risk are industrial workers but why do other workers have to endure lung problems for something so unecessary? [Easily googleable, NIH, CDC, WHO Europe]

This next bit I only want to mention briefly because I didnt find any particularly reputable sources about it, but its a claim that cropped up repeatedly and I think its an interesting one. Parabens, estrogen, phthalates (again), and pesticides in cosmetics are apparently linked to endocrine disorders and hormone dysregulation. Im not entirely sure what is meant by this accusation. Endocrine disorders include female diseases like PCOS and possibly endometriosis. None of these diseases is very well studied and the female endocrine system itself is not well studied either. Im not saying "cosmetics cause PCOS" because we dont know if PCOS or these other endocrine/hormonal disorders are genetic or environmental or both (it appears that PCOS is largely genetic and Endometriosis is likely autoimmune related) AND we dont appear to know for sure that cosmetic ingredients cause endocrine disorder. But I include anyway for a number of reasons:

If you happen to struggle with hormonal problems you may want to know cosmetics is a potential environment factor.

These conditions are incredibly painful. It will be a battle getting your doctor to even acknowledge that pain for diagnosis. PCOS is linked to diabetes, and heart disease. [Thanks @mother-of-pearl ] There is no cure and the treatments are often throwing hormonal birth control at it and hoping for the best.

I dont anticipate the link between cosmetics and endocrine disorders being studied any time soon or any endocrine disorders studied at all because the medical/scientific field is sexist. I dont want women to suffer in the mean time.

Now again, take this with a grain of salt because I couldnt find scientific or news sources for it. Dont fucking come for me. Im not gonna respond to you. [Most reputable source was a paper from the library of medicine at the national institutes of health but it was behind a paywall and I dont have 39 dollars to be right on tumblrdotcom]

Avoiding these ingredients is not as simple as scanning the label for them. As many beautubers and the community are no doubt aware considering multiple scandals over veganism. Products advertised as vegan or cruelty free but contain non-vegan carmine or are sold in China which legally requires the products to be animal tested. Cosmetic companies will hide ingredients claiming they are "trade secrets" or they will be placed under "fragrance." Many ingredients will be known by six or seven different names and asking consumers to be aware of seven different names for multiple ingredients requires consumers to be aware of innumerable different, often complicated ingredient names. I shouldnt have to point out that's a ridiculous burden to place on women. The EU banned 1,300 hazardous ingredients that the US did not. Cosmetic companies rely on women being unwilling/unable to bring in a list of 1,300 ingredients- with multiple names- every time they pop in to the drug store, sephora, or wherever. Buying "natural" products will not help you either. Theres no established criteria for natural/organic in costmetics, the FDA doesnt test these products, and "natural"=/= safe anyway. Plenty of plants and minerals are poisonous. One good example is traditional kohl products which advertise their natural status but also naturally contain lead and reiterating that natural powders contain mica. US courts are rarely on the side of consumers either. I found an interesting lawsuit against St. Ives for their apricot scrub taken to court for their "dermatologist tested" label despite it causing breakouts and cuts to the skin. The courts ruled that this label was fine because it only indicated that the product was TESTED not APPROVED by dermatologists. However I think any rational consumer would look at this label and assume the tests concluded it was safe for use or else why put the label on there?

[Googlable XMONDO drama, googlable laws wrt china and eu, already stated about FDA, FDA website about Kohl. Googled St. Ives lawsuit.]

I want to return to the idea of "intended use." This is sort of a fucky concept a lot of companies have ways of getting around. My "last straw" with makeup had to do with a run-in I had with Anastasia over their "Riviera" eyeshadow palette. In this pallette they had two colors that were the real feature of the palette, an electric neon purple and a radioactive pink I mean every photo, every promotion has these two colors swirled together around the eye. Because again, its an eyeshadow palette. When I buy the eyeshadow palette of course there's a little insert warning in the package that says these two shades are not intended on the eye area. In an eyeshadow palette. Contacting their customer service they told me that these two shades were meant to be used as a blush. neon purple blush. Not only that, but their website and instagram featured NO models wearing the shades as blush while EVERY model one or more of the shades as eyeshadow. When asked about this discrepancy ABH stopped responding. What I find egregious about this is the amount of people who dont know, and then more staggeringly; dont care. The sephora clerks didnt know, the in store abh representative didnt know, their customers didnt know, and when I told them they would respond with "oh, [brand] did the same thing with their [shade]." Sure enough, when I demanded that store clerks open the packaging to look for warnings nearly every product had an "eyeshadow" that was not intended for use on the eyes. Relegating dark, red-toned teal to "contour" and neon grean to "highlighter" US-based cosmetic junkies will say that these pigments have been approved for use by the EU however I found absolutely NO evidence of that. I googled it a thousand ways but all I ever found were blog posts, reddit comments, and one quote from an apparently nonEuropean layman in an Insider article. I even changed my location to France on ABH's website and the Norvina palette still contains the same warnings (not to harp on ABH in particular. I just know which shades in particular are the problem there). The Insider article noted that brands who were selling pressed pigments declined to comment. If the pressed pigments were EU friendly, I would think companies would be clamouring to say so. It also still makes their market as eyeshadow colors illegal in the US. (If any Europeans would like to chime in I'd love that.) Another problem I find with cosmetics companies and their reps is the claim that the worst thing that could happen is eye irritation for those with sensitive eyes and staining. How could they possibly know? The FDA doesnt test, or approve these cosmetics in the eye area, so ostensibly no one should be using it that way.

The next one is a bit of a "duh" but I'm going to talk about it anyway. Counterfeit cosmetics are a booming market full of untold dangers. Untold primarily because these products could contain literally anything. Ive read about glue, arsenic, lead, feces, staph, and horse urine to name a few. The labels and ingredient list on these products are fake. Legitimate brands often unintentionally play into the counterfeit market. They create artificial scarcity by making less of the product than is actually needed for consumer demand to create an even higher demand. If consumers miss out often their only chance at getting the product is to turn to counterfeits. I found examples of women who had their lips superglued, lips "turned to goo" and burned to blistering, throat closures, women with stys, contact dermatitis, eye infections. I think we as a society turn a blind eye to this problem because we think "hey, if youre buying counterfeits for a discount and you get hurt you deserve it." We imagine idiots buying products for 4 dollars from ebay or perusing Canal street for FEИTY beauty. But these counterfeits can be really convincing. I myself received a gift of a huda palette that I only recognized something was weird about it because I'd swatched it at sephora about five times earlier that month. The person who bought it for me actually paid MORE than the usual cost for the palette because it was advertised as a newer, better edition. The websites can be disturbingly similar. For instance Kylie Jenner's legitimate website is KylieCosmetics.com but you can find fakes at kyliecosmeticsshop.co.uk. These fakes can buy ad space and be one of the first sites that populate when you google the products instead of typing the legitimate site into the address bar. Counterfeits can also be bought and sold through third parties on websites like ebay, wish, and amazon. (My gift actually came from Amazon.)

[Netflix doc "Broken" ep "Makeup Mayhem" Corroborated by personal experience and google]

[dailyzzy]

What If- and just hear me out for a second- redbone bojack horseman au.

Deku is Sarah Lynn (his job and giving up on his dreams really fucked him up, he mostly uses drugs as a way to cope with everything happening around him. Bakugou was the one that introduced him to alcohol for the first time when they were kids, bragging to his "friends" about drinking his mothers vodka once and calling Deku a cry baby for not wanting to try, Izuku drank, mostly out of anxiety and ended up getting drunk. Bakugou and his friend dragged him home and said that they found Izuku like that (inko lectured him a lot about It but Izuku couldnt bring himself to snitch) which was the start of his addiction.)

The story could pass through Bakugous pov mostly, still being a murder mistery, but with oh so much more angst. Kirishima gives me Todd vibes, so unfortunely for him Bakugou also isnt that good to him. He always assumes kirishima os an extra and didnt bother learning about his life until It was of interest to him. I think that the betrayal that happened in bojack horseman on the first season wouldve happened back in UA, Kirishima told bakugou about his insecurities (mostly with his quirk) and about this wonderful internship opportunity, Bakugou got scared of kiri leaving him once he made a name for himself and made him fail/miss the Interview (idk If he would Just make fake accounts and Bully kiri online so his anxiety was so high he wouldnt be able to do good or If he would just mix up kiris papers in order for him to miss the Interview).

Aizawa is a mixture of princess Carolyn and basicallly every single person on the show who noticed patterns and behaviors, but didnt do antything, hes an enabler. I woudl say later, when he realizes just how bad his ignorance affected those around him he would probably regret It, but for now him caring for Eri and the fact his students are already adults is the excuse he uses to not confront people. Thats not to say he isnt a good father, just like princess Carolyn he had a hard time adjusting parenting with work (he secretly has always wanted a child of his own, but never thought he would get the chance to have one) and pretends to give his child the childhood he never had.

Bakugou isnt the only 'villain' tho, i think It would be unfair to base the whole au around him or anyone in particular (many actions of bojack and character arcs will be displayed in different characters) Bakugou is a mixture of herb kazzaz and a side of bojack horseman. Shinsou was a dear friend to him (Hitoshi noticed the way he treated people, but never really cared) back in the first year of UA, they were rival-friends sort of deal. Shinsou introduced him to drugs, and a similar situation that happened with kid deku happened with teenage Bakugou, katsuki got caught and basically begged Shinsou to give out his dealers contact, otherwise Bakugou would be assumed to have been dealing and selling the drugs himself (seeing the large amount found back at his dorm room) hitoshi said he would do it, but Aizawa put quite a pression on him to deny anything, and thats exactly what he did. Bakugou was almost expelled and got a big red mark on his curriculum. He did save Kota on the Summer camp, and give quite some good advice.

The Bojack drug would probably be called Dynamight.

Shinsou is basicallly another side of bojack and Diane together (severely depressed, basically) , he has addiction problems (many times pushed people to get involved too) and has a deep self hatred, but still tries his best to be a better person. The problem is, hes still selfish and cynical, mainly the person at fault for Todoroki having had to go through rehab on his early 20's and many times inviting Izuku to do drugs together even though he knows just how bad dekus addiction is. He loves and cares for Eri like a little sister, and genuely tries to help Todoroki, but unfortunely good intentions dont mean good actions. Not to say he doesn't do anything selfless or good, he never pressioned Todoroki after rehab (neither Izuku after he became sober (Bakugou would be the one to lead him to his death)) and gives pretty good advice when hes sober. His biggest dream is to do sonething with his life, to make the world a little bit better. Hes quite intellegent and informed in todays affairs (him and Izuku have plenty of good convos and Todoroki isnt an ignorant fool mainly because of him). He worked on a case that investigated the hero comission and risked his entire career to try to expose a bit of Injustice, even If he wasnt sucefull he was still willing to risk It all for his morals.

Holyhock's arc could go through Todorokis eyes, he never quite forgave his mom and she was much more cruel than in canon, Rei would start showing signs of dementia very early in her life. Endeavor cheated quite a lot and had a illegitamet (idk how to spell) child with a side kick. He became sober ever since rehab and lived quite a good life, even with some shitty actions and shitty people around him. Things started to go down after his mom showed up and only worsened once she had to live with him.

(im kinda tired now so ill write more later.)

Wow, you really thought this through 😳 I'm impressed

And although Redbone characters are not as deep as Bojack's (or maybe not as realistic as Bojack's), some behavioral patterns can be found between these two anyway.

You have good ideas, if you ever write a fic or smth, hmu 👀

[somnilogical]

case study of optimization style: how kelsey piper optimizes to destroy coordination against injustice

her false face of "worrying about disrespecting jay", was the closest thing she could grab that she thought would get others to optimize for my silence. get local warm bodies to pile upon me for continuing to talk about how to get justice and give more information about different sources of injustice in a way compatible with people who have not completely disabled their general intelligence.

she was worried about her reputation and transfems gaining information that would allow them to coordinate along lines of shared oppression (which would start to erode miri/cfar which she wants to survive in order to have a nice (for her) environment to raise her babies), but thats not a socially defensible reason to object so she laundered it through being “worried about disrespecting jay”

11/12/2019

[14:10] Jay (System of Edo): Sarah Spikes has offered to have REACH do an investigation. I do not know this human, and have barely heard of REACH, but my understanding is that it's some sort of sub-organization that CFAR spawned, roughly. My instinct is to be like, "I believe you will talk to everyone and then conclude that basically no action needs to be taken, so in that case allowing you to do an investigation gives an air of legitimacy to dismissing Jay". Is "REACH is basically CFAR's pet" correct?

[14:10] acertain: afaik reach is unrelated to cfar

[14:11] acertain: and the space is controlled by Sarah Spikes and Nat

[14:11] ratsby: that's also my understanding

[14:11] Jay (System of Edo): I did not mean literally, I meant like in practice, are they complicit, etc

[14:11] Jay (System of Edo): like with CFARs bullshit in general

[14:11] ratsby: weren't REACH the ones who did the Brent investigation?

[14:12] silver-and-ivory: they did something about brent but weren't able to publish the stuff they got bc they believed he would sue them for defamation

[14:12] Jay (System of Edo): Oh wow. Cowards lol

[14:12] Jay (System of Edo): yeah that's pretty much all I need to know.

[14:12] Jay (System of Edo): thanks

[14:13] silver-and-ivory: :( I don't think they're cowards for that

[14:13] silver-and-ivory: but you have all the information i have so w/e

[14:14] acertain: I think reach doing an investigation would mean the reach panel (https://www.berkeleyreach.org/reach-panel), which afaik is a separate set of people from those who decide how the space is run

[14:18] acertain: idk if the list of people on the panel on the website is up to date though

[14:19] stardust: List is up to date

[14:19] stardust: Full Brent statement is available upon request, not fully public because legal risk

[14:20] silver-and-ivory: https://theunitofcaring.tumblr.com/post/182885399661/abuse-allegations-anon-here-i-am-happy-to-hear

[14:20] silver-and-ivory:REACH consulted an attorney about making the result of the Brent investigations public and were told that there was absolutely no way to do this without making each of the investigators individually liable in a defamation lawsuit. I’m also worried they could be sued to reveal the names of people who spoke to them anonymously in the course of the investigation.

[14:21] stardust: We were planning to get liability insurance when we get our legal non profit status but that has not panned out yet

[14:21] stardust: IRS is slow and hard to navigate

[14:22] Jay (System of Edo): okay, this is enough info on REACH, thanks.

[14:24] Jay (System of Edo): just told her not to investigate.

[14:24] ratsby: wait why?

[14:24] stardust: (She is me)

[14:25] Jay (System of Edo): oh.

[14:25] ratsby: I don't see how them investigating could hurt anything

[14:25] Jay (System of Edo):wait why?I don't believe they'll do anything tbh

[14:25] stardust: I will refrain from posting here if you prefer

[14:26] ratsby: seems like some chance of upside, no chance of downside?

[14:26] Jay (System of Edo):>I don't see how them investigating could hurt anything

My instinct is to be like, "I believe you will talk to everyone and then conclude that basically no action needs to be taken, so in that case allowing you to do an investigation gives an air of legitimacy to dismissing Jay". Is "REACH is basically CFAR's pet" correct?

[14:26] Jay (System of Edo):>I will refrain from posting here if you prefer

Yes, thanks.

[14:43] hamnox: The characterization of REACH panel as CFAR's pet feels bizarre. Iirc it got started in no small part because a bunch of locals were pissed off at how CFAR failed to do anything about, and implicitly legitimized, Brent.

[14:58] 𒀭 💮: i dont really know Jay, but i do know that the REACH panel is unjust and about as helpful and necessary as christian missionaries were to native americans. im not reporting my thing to it.linta is on it who made false accusations of emma being indistinguishable from a rapist and somni doing some sort of sex party at their house for social ends of suppression of unrelated dissent. and was generally antitrans in the standard way of saying people are crazy and incoherent, like how people are saying Ziz is schizophrenic when she obviously isnt. i think much of it are populated by lintas friends like mike alicorn and anisha. sarah c, one of the few cis people i trust at this point, had an emotional breakdown about it citing that they dont care about the Law and i think resigned. given the sort of place it is, i bet that none of the REACH panel members are transfem, people can correct me if im wrong.

im kinda for transfems coordinating with each other to the extent they can against people like brent dill, alice monday, lintamande, anna salamon and other agents of injustice. with better game theory than the likes of the REACH panel who flinch at "defamation".

[15:11] SeriesOfSymbols: Umm

Tbh I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that all these people are in the same reference class

[15:11] 𒀭 💮: they are in the reference class of perpetuating injustics

[15:11] lintamande: sort of assuming it would be unhelpful to Jay to litigate disagreements from elsewhere here. I don't know anisha. I don't think ziz is schizophrenic. I never said somni participated in the uninvited surprise orgy in my house, just that I was mad at the people who did. I don't think the REACH panel is good for anything except getting offenders banned from REACH in particular rn, and I think we should maybe check in with Jay about whether the rest of this is helping

[15:11] SeriesOfSymbols: As are

you

And  I

And ziz

Etc

[15:11] SeriesOfSymbols: Nobody is free from sin

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: ^ fallacy of grey

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: like also

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: there is a type difference

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: you socially but not legally implied to avoid culpability

[15:12] lintamande: guys does Jay want to host this conversation

[15:12] 𒀭 💮: the party things i could grep it

[15:13] lintamande: this is the server for helping Jay figure out what we can do to help

[15:13] TowerNumberNine: Jay appears to be idle at present

[15:13] TowerNumberNine: But previously they said there was enough info on REACH

[15:15] deluks917: Agree with Tower the Reach thing should get dropped

[15:15] 𒀭 💮: your "help" is poisoned in the same way that christian missionaries are and you are attempting to funnel peoples sights away from your injustice by framing me as derailing when this is relevant to Jay's needs.

[15:15] 𒀭 💮: and restriction of general intelligence is not.

[15:16] lintamande: somni I am happy to discuss this, I have messaged you offering to discuss this, I just am worried Jay will come back to this and feel like we are disrespecting what they've asked for here and not helping them

[15:16] SeriesOfSymbols: Fallacy of black and white

I think there is a meaningful difference between [rapists and abusers], [person who willfully covered for abuse], and [person who you have disagreements with]

[15:16] 𒀭 💮: i am not worried about this

[15:17] 𒀭 💮: i dont think im disrespecting Jay

[15:17] 𒀭 💮: there is a meaningful difference between stalin and yudkowsky, they are both, however, men.

[15:21] 𒀭 💮: coordination against agents of injustice is important. erasing the pattern of injustice is wrong. saying that all people are the same so we cannot coordinate against injustice because who knows who they are is wrong.it is important for people to know this sort of information so they dont do things like go to REACH expecting justice and then have their plans crumble.

[15:22] 𒀭 💮: people who present REACH as acceptable because "has not everyone sinned" are doing something wrong (linta is not doing this, they are doing a different sort of wrong thing, but also are erasing knowledge of the pattern of injustice)

[15:23] 𒀭 💮: or like if you run this reasoning on people and then apply it to reach with like "it couldnt hurt" are also doing something wrong

[15:24] x.: is there anything at all linta can say or do in this situation which will cause you to believe that they are not doing wrong?

[15:26] x.: (i am not sure how germane this topic is to anything, as this is not a dedicated "The Crimes of Lintamande" server, but so long as the subject is being discussed, i think it warrants asking)

[15:27] 𒀭 💮: yes, stop their suppression of emma and somni, their false claims made to not be culpable in a legal court but also to permeate a social court. stop their optimization for and apologism for cissexism, such in the case of minority stratification. "none of the panel members are transfem but the hosts are" "a lot of people who go to cfar are transfem but afaict none of the staff are" this is a bog standard oppression pattern which linta is familiar with.

[15:27] 𒀭 💮: and several other things.

[15:27] 𒀭 💮: i talked with them for months

[15:28] 𒀭 💮: before slowly and painfully realizing that they didnt care, that the structure they put out fed into evil, agentically. because they talked like my childhood friends who were particularly kind.

[15:28] 𒀭 💮: and i was vulnerable to that.

[15:28] 𒀭 💮: it was really hard to see through this aesthetic to how they were actually optimizing.

[15:29] 𒀭 💮: what effects they were having.

[15:29] x.: perhaps there is some other zone in which this chat would be more appropriate

[15:29] lintamande: that is what I have been saying

[15:29] 𒀭 💮: linta is trying to warp this conversation in that direction

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: because they dislike culpability

[15:30] x.: rather than both of you trying to get the last word in on what's clearly a grotesquely contentious conversation

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: i reject this plea of false peace

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: like

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: what you two are doing are obvious

[15:30] 𒀭 💮: i reject the framing of this not being relevant

[15:30] x.: right, every time one of you makes a post the other one immediately makes another

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: i reject this suppression of important information

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: framed as an irrelevant tangent

[15:31] lintamande: so I'm not saying 'this is irrelevant' I am saying 'let's check with Jay about whether this is helpful to Jay'

[15:31] x.: is new information being introduced?

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: i can see what you are doing

[15:31] lintamande: even if this is incredibly relevant and important it should happen somewhere else unless Jay wants it here

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: it is not optimizing for the good of jay

[15:31] 𒀭 💮: or the good of justice

[15:31] x.: @𒀭 💮 she's making posts online, which you are also doing

[15:33] 𒀭 💮: "making posts online" is important to the fate of the planet

[15:34] 𒀭 💮: like and a lot of other stuff. you cant say "its just making posts online, this is dumb" like sometimes posts are dumb but this is a reference class warp to claim this post is dumb, when i can see its not.

[15:35] x.: did i say it was dumb?

[15:35] 𒀭 💮: you are optimizing for like "you two are just contentlessly fighting, this is silly why dont we do something else besides fight." which is Pretending to be Wise.

[15:36] 𒀭 💮: https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/jeyvzALDbjdjjv5RW/pretending-to-be-wise

[15:37] x.: i have actually not suggested the flamewar should stop, merely that this specific chat might not be a reasonable location for it

[15:37] 𒀭 💮: and talking with you about this pattern also supports lintas utility function which is suppression of the knowledge of injustice

[15:38] x.: i mean, i am not the person running the show here, so i could be entirely mistaken

[15:38] x.: it appears to me that this chat is supposed to be about a guy named "robert"

[15:39] x.: this seems tenuously, at best, connected to that

[15:39] 𒀭 💮: and yet Jay's statement

>My instinct is to be like, "I believe you will talk to everyone and then conclude that basically no action needs to be taken, so in that case allowing you to do an investigation gives an air of legitimacy to dismissing Jay". Is "REACH is basically CFAR's pet" correct?

[15:40] 𒀭 💮: and my statements are relevant

[15:40] silver-and-ivory: I feel like in the absence of Jay's presence people should do what they think is best

[15:40] 𒀭 💮: i think even in the presence of Jay, people should do what they think is best

[15:40] silver-and-ivory: also true

[15:40] x.: as far as i can tell, jay already said they were not interested in pursuing an inquest by the hand of the BREACH

[15:41] x.: and refused to engage in such a thing

[15:43] x.: so it's like, "is this person, whose involvement was specifically not requested, a dick?"

[15:43] 𒀭 💮: as far as i can tell this is optimization for silence. because this touches on important things, instead of having a paternalistic additude towards Jay. my read on their CEV after skimming their blog is that they are anti-suppression.

[15:44] 𒀭 💮: also, by like some sort of property rights, this is like 50% my channel.

[15:44] 𒀭 💮: as i was sexually assaulted by robert lecnik.

[15:45] 𒀭 💮: you are interfering with my space as a victim. which is a seperate thing.

[15:45] 𒀭 💮: this is "Robert Lecnik Abuse Chat"

[15:45] x.: so you would prefer to have lintamande investigate this in some way, then?

[15:45] 𒀭 💮: my report is the second item in #concrete-reports

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: i dont want linta to investigate anything besides their complicity with a cissexist system.

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: moriwen made helicopter jokes

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: after they ran out the trans people

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: from EAC

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: and is friends with linta: okay, i guess i am too confused to participate any further then

[15:46] 𒀭 💮: linta framed that as "blowing off steam"

[15:47] 𒀭 💮: i do not feel safe around either of these humans.

[15:52] 𒀭 💮: like not exactly blowing off steam but they said like it was good people were having fun when mori was doing their antitransfem thing.

these things become more obvious with processing.

i think robert, given their pattern so far of predation, possibly exploited environmental cissexism, was enabled by this. erasing knowledge of it leads to inability to coordinate against it leads to cis people treating transfem humans as if they exist in morality holes.

[15:54] 𒀭 💮: like i was around robert lecnik after Jay talked with anna about him i think. if anna listened to Jay and took them seriously, if robert lecnik were banned from cfar spaces and the berkeley meetup, i dont think i would have been sexually assualted.

[15:57] 𒀭 💮: erasing knowledge of cissexism because the people perpetrate it "use preferred pronouns" or whatever leads to inability of transfems to coordinate against it.

[16:04] 𒀭 💮: Jay wrote:

>On Anna Salamon: I remember her seeing me as a transwoman who exclusively liked men; Blanchard has a whole “theory” about this. And apparently that made me a “real” transwoman (wtf), unlike the rest of the transwomen in LW. I feel she explicitly went out of her way to validate me as a woman a number of times, like, there was one time she was saying hi to me and did the human version of this: (http://www.thebalancedcanine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/IMG_1166.jpg). Which, yeah, she’s a TERF.

>Also, the reason I hated her early on was, there was a time that she, I, Robert Lecnik (my rapist), and Peter (his husband) were in a room for an hour long private therapy thing since Peter was a large CFAR donor. Robert admitted to “sexually assaulting Fluttershy and being ‘bad at consent’ with a whole bunch of other people”, and Anna didn’t see any issue with letting him continue to “run the Berkeley meetups” (an honorary thing, he used it to often-ineffectively hit on people). And I had some betrayal trauma from Anna around this, as well as a later feeling of “wow I got pwned by a guy that low in mana, I’m lame”, too. Fortunately it’s all emotionally processed now.this sort of information is very relevant for coordinating against people like Robert Lecnik

i think if cissexism were deleted, in counterfactual worlds in which transfem people got to be on things like "abuse panels", this sort of predation wouldnt happen. but like responses that reactively goodhart this and say "choose the most complicit-with-the-cistem transfems and place them on the panel to avoid culpability" are useless.

individuals learning game theory, forming class-consciousness, and coordinating with each other might help bring justice to things like Robert Lecnik being allowed by the cistem to continue to prey on trans people, to prey on me. with full knowledge that this was going on.

[16:05] 𒀭 💮: https://sinceriously.fyi/intersex-brains-and-conceptual-warfare/#comment-240

[16:09] 𒀭 💮: i have some hope in anarchistic cooperation between smart humans. i have approximately 0 hope in cissexist abuse panels and people like anna salamon who allow the predation of me and people like me to happen.

[16:37] Jay (System of Edo): sec, need to read through all this.

[16:58] 𒀭 💮: if cissexism were deleted this narrow sort of predation would stop happening but like, there would still be predation there would still be predation on minorities. i care about all sentient life not just transfems. this is not an optimization target but is saying "you who say cissexism does not have a hand in the game, if cissexism were actually deleted the counterfactual world post-deletion would look very different than this one. accepting a status quo where like trans people arent on things like sexual abuse panels and arent employed as CFAR staff is accepting cissexism. and resulting in things like, when they go to these institutions they are ignored"

[17:22] Jay (System of Edo): So. My main thing is to look at what algorithms people are running. Like, REACH sounds like they're not brave enough to do something they believe would make the world a better place at a small personal cost, so why would I care about mitigating circumstances if I already know that that's the algorithm they're running. (edit: this is what "is REACH basically CFAR's pet" pointing to, eg if they are pwned by the same things. rather than pointing to whether the two orgs are ostensibly related).

Similarly, discussion of REACH beyond what was needed for me to figure this out (about six lines of text) is not at all useful to me. But pointing this fact out to silence Somni suggests some sort of preference to defend REACH. So, if that's the algorithm you're running, then I see you as (probably) sorting people/discussion topics based on what you can socially get away with. Sort of like, the word "appropriate" is in the same class as "uppity" "disrespectful" "honorable" etc, and this applies to asking if it's "appropriate to discuss REACH despite Jay's preferences".

I personally do not participate in long conversations about who is "in the right", because I personally find it very easy to figure out what people are trying to do, and find that continuing on chats longer than that is a waste of my time. But, this is also Somni's space as a victim of Robert, so it's okay if she wants to discuss REACH I guess. I've never talked with her, but she (they?) seems to have good takes with respect to when someone is de facto hurting others or running bad algorithms in a way related to that.

[17:49] Jay (System of Edo): (sort of like, when I hear that someone sexually assaulted another person, I don't think, "well I guess it's a small harm relative to the good you can do if you're maximizing your life for utilitarian impact", I rather think, "what the fuck algorithm are they running, I don't think they'd have done that if they were trying to reduce the suffering of all beings, maybe there's something I can get out of this person, but definitely not like, outsourcing thinking/project leadership/etc to them"

[18:50] Lorelei: (also related to the reach panel, I'm transfem and was very eager to volunteer as a member, in part because I wanted my queer social circle to have some representation in the process of Justice, but was turned down.)

[18:51] Lorelei: (just so they can't claim not having a tranfem member is justpure coincidence/lack of volunteers)

[18:58] 𒀭 💮: (linta messaged me to say that moriwen saying the helicopter thing was after they said having fun was good. and i checked this and its true. but like that is not at all central to why i think they are collaborating with cissexism or why i talked with emma for like 15 minutes about how people like linta and mori might be horrible to transfems if we told people about alice monday. (people wouldnt actually be marginally worse to transfems. people dont have prejudiced beliefs like that, their transphobic "beliefs" are a coordination mechanism for harm. white people in the antebellum south could see perfectly well that those who were enslaved were human beings.) noselling commitments to transphobia is a good move in response to "what if outing a trans abuser worsens cissexism?".)

[19:02] silver-and-ivory: oh linta and mori left

[19:02] 𒀭 💮: they were banned

[tumblunni]

Randomly thinking some more about that old game idea of mine that i just call Dark Pokemon for now, lol

Basically a monster catching game where they're treated as monsters? Normal people are all terrified of them and trainers get treated with a 50/50 mix of reverence and hatred. Because trainers are the only way that humans can try and exterminate the monsters, yet theyre seen as cursed people who dont even count as human anymore. Sort of a way to explain little cliches of the genre like kids being thrown out completely alone to travel the world, and you never really having any reason to revisit past towns after you beat the gym. I was thinking itd be a cool way to do it if the game started off seeming like a normal mon catching game and then before you get the big reveal of the darkness you can get subtle hints if you try and turn around and reenter the starting area. Because it goes against expectations it might be missed by a lot of players.

Also the towns are so small and the routes are so straight and narrow because thats how humanity builds society in a world of monster fear. 90% of the world is uninhabited wilderness where only monsters live. Human towns are sorta like sci fi dome cities without the scifi? Surrounded by protective salt barriers and charms and stuff. And if a monster even touches anything its considered cursed, so if one of them makes it past a salt barrier that town is abandoned and any people caught up in the chaos of the barrier's collapse are left to die just in case they've been corrupted. And the roads between the towns are manned by armed guards who are constantly vigilant to repair the salt barriers. But this means they have to live their entire life alone in these limbo spaces between society and the wild, and often most narrier breaches are caused by the guards getting paranoid from the pressure. You need to keep watch for monsters so any movement in the shadows could be one of them, right?? You get situations of roads being blocked off by some crazed guard who starts seeing people as monsters, or one of them pulling the alarm and getting a town falsely burnt down for being corrupted when the monster was really just a leaf blowing in the wind. Or the worst case scenario where nobody ever knows WHAT happened! You just find the road destroyed and the guard gone. It might have happened days ago and nobody knew until a merchant tries to travel between towns and discovers the only road of escape is gone and everyone is doomed to slow starvation. And you can still see the other end of the road just a few meters away, but the superstition is so strong that nobody will risk taking that single step into monster territory. You'll be cursed and that's worse than death, right? You don't want to turn into a trainer...

And then also nobody really knows what determines who's chosen to be a trainer. Inevitably whenever someone shows signs of powers the town will turn on them and make up any excuse that they somehow invited the curse by being promoscuous or athiest or something. And you need to be removed for everyone's safety! Thus begins the ten year old's journey walking the earth in search of a place they can belong...

Tho usually its not just kids, the protagonist and rival is a rare case. All your neighbours are torn between 'its so tragic it happened to kids' and 'they must be REALLY evil to get chosen despite their age!' And i think maybe the rival would be like a sympathetic gary type? Theyre so determined to be better than you because they think if they can prove theyre good then their parents will let them go back home. And this desperation leads them to make bad choices and reject the only friend they have left :( Also them being bad to their monster pals would feel more justified when they were raised in a society that says monster pals are evil and you cant let your guard down cos theyre just trying to tempt you. Listen to the assholes who dont care about you, because anyone being nice is a lying sinner!

Also i was thinking maybe you catch monsters with a magic song or throwing herbs at them or absorbing them into a jewel pendant or something else more magicky yknow? Maybe magical bandages enscribed with spell runes that wrap arpund them like a collar? And so trainers are divided up into weavers who make these catching tools, and then the actual kind of trainer who uses them to catch mons. Weavers are able to stay in human society and act like the pokeball shops, theyre sorta like a 'town witch' or something. Like 'we will tolerate your magic if you never actually make a contract with a monster'. But then of course catching monsters is necessary to defend against monsters, so weavers have to be allowed to make the catching threads and sell them to travellers. But only travellers are allowed to do that sinful mon hugging! But also hey sinful traveller will you please save us from our doom? Basically this is why most trainers work as mercenaries, all this bullshit means that you gotta be employed by some asshole who hates your guts just cos u need food to eat. But blablabla town limit of X days before you have to leave, etc etc...

Also i was considering an element of different towns having different mythology around monsters and trainers? So you never really know whats real or if all of it is bullshit. Every time you go to a new place theyre equally fanatically convinced that some new thing is the real sin and everything the last guy said is eeeeeevil corruption. Sigh! And a subplot i was thinking of is a town with very sexist mythology, where the roles of weavers and tamers are seen as one gender only. And the town weaver is this nice grandma thats trapped in an abusive relationship with a super misogynist gramps. And one of those cloyingly fake-softspoken "rational" sexists who's all 'im just trying to protec u, wrong gender roles are bad for your immortal soul'. And has a million "logical" explanations for why his bigotry is true. Like technically he's "valuing her as important" by not letting her leave the house or socialize with friends, because yknow "im a nice guy who's nice to you trainers, i know your job is important so shouldnt the weavers be working 24/7 to support you?" The frustrating feeling of starting to trust a guy cos he's not bigoted against your particular minority, but then finding out he's bigoted against someone else... Ugh. So ultimately in the end you can succeed at this sidequest and help the grandma make a pact with a cute fairy monster and kick his ass and leave. And possibly get into a cute and mutually healthy relationship with another grandma in another town, so you get to see that and have a bonus happy note to the sidequest, yknow? Also they give you a hug and bake u cookies. (The monster is wearing a cute chef hat!) And then you'd have a place to stay in that town that doesnt have the 'it gets more expensive every night to try and make you leave' bullshit of all the normal inns. And you get to see a cute animation of your monsters all cuddled up in bed too cos they dont force you to leave them outside in the Designated Monster Containment Cage.

Oh! Also randomly i was thinking of another way of foreshadowing! Like when you go to the first inn you dont know any of this stuff about people hating monster tamers and not trusting your tamed mons even if theyre tame. So you'd probably just think that you not seeing your monsters when you sleep is just the game's limited graphics or you keep them in some pokeball equivelant thing. But when you walk arpund the outside of the inn you can see a door to a basement cellar that's got weirdly heavy duty chains and bars even if you assume they store their valuables down there. And maybe when you heal at the inn it never restores your mons to full health, always 10hp away from maximum or something? Or other small hints that theyre afraid of going to the inn and your protagonist is wary about doing it even if you'd think theres no downside to healing. Or maybe you can see another monster tamer visit the place at one point and you can hear banging and growling from the basement...? Or see some of the chains have bite marks in the morning. And the townsfolk wpuld be all 'can you believe how much noise they made?' and expressing fear about monsters being in the town, though itd have to be written carefully to remain vague. But yeah 'lets mistreat these small animals because we fear them' -> they panic and cry for their one human friend in the world while theyre forced to sleep in a damp dark tiny room -> 'that just proves theyre inherantly violent!' Also the trainer is an ungrateful bastard for acting so sullen when they couldnt sleep from worry over their friends :(

But it wont be all depressing yo!!! All the darkness of the setting is dark but the monster pals are still just as pals! I give u grimdark world so i can give u a protagonist of kindness who fights the system and saves people in every town who eventually rise up and are swayed by their kindness into fighting The Old Ways and making a better world as the story goes on! Its like an adventure of creating the pokemon world? You try and sell everyone on the idea of trusting cute monsters instead of being so damn paranoid you inflict all these atrocities upon other humans and even yourself because 'sacrifices are necessary to keep the monsters away'. Fight the symbol of all bigotry!!! The evil team is Team Bad Dads And Politicians!!!

...sorry lol my story ideas are Weird.

[mercenarypark]

i had a squirrel climb up my leg and onto my back today

[heyitscmei]

so i see theres some theory talk floating around

but this post isnt really to do with theories so much as characterization

i had a whole thread over on twitter but ill just copy and paste some thoughts here in regards to one particular post ive seen floating around and some posts linked within im not trying to start fights or anything, im just expressing some thoughts of my own which is why im not linking to the post in question anyways

just a reminder, keith isnt a good liar so unless he became a good liar in the time that shiro was gone, i sincerely dont think he was lying to shiro when he told him that the team needed him

but whether or not he became a good liar or not, one thing is certain based on what weve been shown:

keith is a capable leader, but he still hasnt quite grown into the role yet

keith still hasnt quite learned how to pick his battles

thats why i dont think its quite right to say that hes more capable of a leader than shiro with time, he could be thats something even shiro himself saw in keith: potential 

however something thats been made clear to us is that keith still needs to learn a little

shiro on the other hand, has experience being in a leader role hes the garrisons golden boy, the pilot of the kerberos mission and he was the head of voltron for a reason black chose him for a reason

he is capable he is a role model for keith keith tells shiro that the team needs him that he cant do it and isnt as good of a leader as shiro because its what he believes to be true

keith is honest and straightforward he knows hes lacking and he doesnt try to pretend that hes a perfect leader he KNOWS hes still struggling between doing what he WANTS to do and doing what he SHOULD do - with accepting that the things he wants to do arent necessarily good for the team to be doing

hes grown immensely in the time he has been leader, but hes not the leader they need to defeat lotor not the way he is right now and he KNOWS that

as for shiro... i can agree that maybe leading voltron gave him control something that hed been robbed of in his captivity but i also dont think that hes the type to really let things like betrayal or jealousy or whatever cloud his vision shiro from the start has always seemed to put their purpose before himself hes never given the impression of being a selfish enough person to have issues over who the leader is he seems more likely to be the type to think 'if this is what it takes, well do it this way'

i think hes being genuine when he says hes glad the team didnt lose sight of things in his absence because thats just how he is hes glad that his absence didnt become their undoing because hes only one person winning the war means saving a lot more than that hes proud of them for that because thats shiro thats what hes like selfless but driven

not once has he ever complained about being thrust into this war even though hes got more than enough reasons to complain because he sees this mission and he knows its for the greater good he knows first hand how bad it can be he wants to spare people from that its like hes selfless to a fault so i dont think he actually has any issues with feeling left out or feeling as though hes the odd one out from the team if that were really the case, i dont think hed guide from the castle as easily as he is theres no reservations or hesitation he doesnt seem to think 'im not part of this anymore' so much as 'im part of this, but in a different way from usual'

keith is so willing to step aside for shiro because ultimately he still believes wholeheartedly that shiro is most suited to lead

keith has never cared about claiming or holding onto the leader position

now in the interest of explaining why i dont think the reasons the OP of the post mentioned that make shiro a bad leader dont actually make shiro a bad leader, i addressed each reason individually so 1) in regards to when shiro tries to carry lance outside after lance protects coran from the bomb

why does he do it? well its not a good idea to leave an injured teammate alone, for one for two, if the explosion was within the castle, its pretty reasonable to think the castle isnt safe either ultimately, while the castle is big, you dont want to be cornered in the very place that the galra are likely to infiltrate

what are the galra after? the lions where are the lions? in the castle where will the galra be going then? the castle so where do you not want to be with your injured teammate? the castle

not to mention, without the crystal, the castle is generally nonfunctional the chances of lance being okay are ultimately greater if shiro gets him out of the castle at least, its a risk shiro is willing to take

why tell pidge to come back when shiro will have the easier time getting lance to safety? not to mention shiro is already there with him its not like he could tell when exactly pidge would be done sending coran and hunk off theres also no telling how long it would take for pidge to get to them its not a wise decision to just stay put inside the enemies main target while knowing the team was so separated

tell allura to come back? let keith check the arusian village by himself? thats not a smart idea either we know that it was ruse to separate them, but the team didnt know that at the time dramatic irony

so from shiros perspective, its better if allura and keith go to the arusian village together because at least they have an ally to watch their backs in the event that something is wrong you dont hear that a village is under attack and assume it wont be dangerous safety in numbers    

2) regarding shiro and his decisions about when to fight and when not to fight

its worth mentioning that first and foremost, shiro never makes a decision that he doesnt wait for the others inputs on hes not the type to force them to do something if the majority disagrees with his decisions

but a very important thing about being a leader is knowing when to choose your battles this is especially emphasized in s3 however, whether to fight or retreat hasnt always necessarily been dependent on whether the odds are in their favour or not

one such exception is when they decided to take on zarkons command center

shiro knew that keith was right when he said theyd be bringing zarkon exactly what he wants he wasnt ignoring him shiro was the one who said himself that the odds would be against them even in season 1 it isnt as though he suddenly changed his mind what changed was that they had allura

and allura is a lot more than just a part of the team shes the altean princess shes the true leader of the entire damn war shes too important for them to lose

things they lose if they lose allura? - the ability to wormhole, thus reducing their mobility by a great deal - a key figurehead in the war and the person who best handles the talks and meetings with the other planets

not to mention that she has powers all of them lack, including coran

someone like that isnt exactly easily replaced

shiro said it himself when the others reminded him he was the one who said they shouldnt take on zarkons central command at first they had no choice but to attack zarkons command center

they had to try because, the way he probably saw it, the war was as good as lost if they didnt save allura anyways

in s2 when zarkon manages to keep finding them, keith says they can fight that they should fight (this is actually considered a flaw that he needs to overcome, and is addressed in s3 - he needs to learn to choose his battles) but shiro says that they dont stand a chance against zarkon and his entire fleet

again, he didnt just suddenly change his mind and hes not being hypocritical in any way he explains why they cant because keith doesnt know how to pick his battles yet

they pull back, because shiro doesnt yet see a chance for them to come out of the battle victoriously theyre not prepared yet

later when shiro says that they will be attacking, its different its on their terms its not him listening to keith because he suddenly saw an error in his own judgement or whatever this is shiro acknowledging that there is an advantage to be gained this way they have a chance here that isnt more likely to leave them all dead thats called picking your battles

shiro isnt a bad leader for it in fact, its exactly what will make keith a better leader in s3

3) regarding shiro and keith and leadership 

shiro does not have 'a lot of nerve' to tell keith that he has to control his emotions if hes going to lead

shiro is well aware of the fact that sometimes, when youre put into a position where youre responsible for not just yourself, but a whole team of people, you cant let your judgement be clouded by emotions sometimes the things you have to do are not always the things you want to do

its true that keith is rational and can make smart decisions, but in the context of when shiro says this to keith its because he acknowledges that keith still lets emotions cloud his vision sometimes and the scene prior was one of those times you cant lash out at your team you have to talk to them properly thats the kind of thing shiro is trying to have keith understand

(and for the record, the decision to attack zarkons command center was not a decision that seemed to be based on emotion. at the time they attacked, shiro was not aware of the control zarkon still had over the black lion, so he couldnt have been scared of that and sure he might have been scared about what would happen to himself, to allura, to the team, but it was a risk they had to take because allura is too crucial to their mission - thats not an emotional decision its a smart one)

but hes not saying "dont be like me" to keith when he says keith has to control his emotions hes saying this because he acknowledges that keith has potential but he also acknowledges that his potential is still hindered by things that keith needs to work on and overcome

also, keith going against zarkon was not emotionally driven it was more likely keiths idea of a way to gain a huge advantage in the war no emperor to lead automatically means that the opposing side is weakened substantially

it wasnt necessarily the right thing to do either keith had no idea of what zarkon was capable of (pick your battles - going in blind isnt exactly advisable and coran even TELLS him not to do it. coran has been shown to have known more, which is a given considering he was present 10000 years ago)

also shiro doesnt have blind faith in keith for a long time now, canon has been hinting that shiro and keith have a backstory shiro knows keith better than anyone else because the rescue from the garrison was very clearly not their first meeting ("its good to have you back", “its good to be back”)

also the insinuation that shiro is not fit to lead because he has ptsd... yikes i dont think i need to elaborate on why exactly that implication is yikes-worthy

its true that keith displays leadership potential early on in the show but this doesnt necessarily mean that shiro isnt a good leader and that keith is automatically better

shiro isnt perfect, but hes a great leader canon has told us time and time again that keith has to grow into the role

(also the reason keith follows shiro and not the other way around: shiro changed his life. shiro is a positive person in his life and keith both trusts and relies on him because shiro didnt give up on him. this is why he follows shiro)

shiro doesnt "hold him back" shiros done nothing but push keith forward and support him keith would be insulted if someone thought shiro was any less than his biggest supporter (”if it wasnt for you, my life would have been a lot different”, “shiro is the only person who didnt give up on me -  i wont give up on him”) shiro showing keith reason and explaining why they cant follow through on some of the things keith wants to do isnt "holding him back"

its true keith sees a lot of good stuff in shiro but the same is true for shiro to keith its mutual and shiro tells keith he wants him to lead voltron not because he doesnt want keith to follow him and wants to follow keith instead he tells keith this because shiro acknowledges that sometimes in war, things happen he could die and hes had some close calls he wants keith to lead because he knows he can trust keith to lead the team he knows that if keith leads, even if hes gone the team will be left in capable hands hes been trying to nurture that

4) in regards to keith stopping pidge from leaving and shiro stopping keith

keith is right about pidge putting two people over the universe however shiro is right about how you cant force people to be part of the team you dont nurture bonds that way you dont build a team that way

why? how do you expect to build a functioning team if a member is reluctant to be part of it

personally speaking, when i dont want to do something i dont end up doing the thing as well as i could be and im unhappy doing the thing the whole time

thats not good for the team shiro knows this and so, if pidges mind really cant be changed, he wont force her to stay also, paladins can be replaced and im sure shiro knows that considering when they first met allura, she asked them what happened to the blue lions paladin they know there were paladins before they know that they are not the first they are not the only paladins

it wouldve set them back, but if they really needed to, theyd look for a new green paladin to take pidges place you cant fight a war with someone who isnt willing to fight a war

also to say that shiro doesnt care about finding the holts as much is just.. first of all, weve established that shiro puts their purpose first im more sure that he wants to find them and just knows they dont have the time to put all their focus on finding two people when a universe is at stake

whether they have to find a new green paladin hinges on pidge, but hes not going to force her to stay besides, forcing someone to stay and fight a war... it doesnt sound like a good idea, ultimately keiths heart is in the right place and he has the right idea, but theres more to being a leader than telling people what to do its a job that requires understanding, especially for the people within the team

its true it wouldve been dangerous for pidge, but shiro is a recently escaped captive from the galra empire this, in addition to who he seems to be as a person... i think the last thing he wants to do is keep someone somewhere against their will and force them into doing something

and shiro telling keith he wants him to lead wasnt him trying to force the role on keith he was trying to give voltron the biggest winning chance in the event that he would be unable to lead them (for obvious reasons considering theyre fighting a war)

and thats about everything i have to say but im just leaving these here to organize some of those thoughts its kind of a mess but i tried to address everything i order as best as i could

[colorfulsuitdestiny-blog]

Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

"Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

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Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

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Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

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Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

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im 20 and doing my lessons soon i do want to have a car but they are really expensive to run , do u think i should just stick to a moped and wait till i get a lil older plus how much on average is it to run a moped compered to a car including petrol+ insurance Only:)""

Insurance and Stepchildren?

I've been doing some research and have been able to find very little information on this topic. My husband and I got married recently and with our combined incomes, my son would no longer qualify for Medicaid (which had previously been his insurance). My husband asked his employer (who carries Aetna) if he could add his stepson and they told him yes, absolutely, they just needed his birth certificate, SS#, and a copy of our marriage certificate. We provided all these documents, and then they told us we needed to cancel his current insurance and provide proof of cancellation before they could cover him - which seemed strange to me, because I've had Medicaid as secondary insurance in the past, but we complied. We provided them with the letter saying that his coverage would be terminated effective June 1st. Hubby asked HR if everything was in place, and they said yes - as of June 1st, when his Medicaid expired, they would pick up coverage. Then yesterday (June 7th), HR approached my husband and told him that an Aetna representative called them and said that they can NOT cover his stepson unless I, the biological mother, am also on the insurance. This was NEVER mentioned to us previously and they knew he was not planning to add me as well - we never provided any of my documentation or information. I called Aetna and they told me that HR at the place of employment are the ones who determine this policy, and HR is telling us that it's the insurance company. So now my son is completely without coverage when they TOLD us that it would begin on the 1st. I have no interest in switching my insurance - I am covered under my parents' policy and it is very good. I am currently pregnant and I know my OB takes my current insurance and they have already preapproved all prenatal care and the birth. I might have considered switching if absolutely necessary had we known ahead of time, but we didn't, and now his insurance has lapsed as a result. So my question is - in my research, I came accross Obama's Affordable Care Act, which I know is the one that requires insurance companies to cover children until they are 26 and is the same reason that my parents' insurance company covers me. I read a couple different places that this same law also applies to stepchildren. So, under this law, is my husband's insurance required to cover my son?""

Can someone please tell me why used Audi's or so cheap?? Can someone help me pick which used car to buy!?

2003 BMW 325I 84K Miles $10,900 2002 Audi S4 64K Miles $10,900 2005 Audi A4 1.8T AWD 79K Miles $10,900 2006 Honda Civic EX 1.8 75K Miles $10,900 2003 Infiniti G35 sedan 64K Miles $10,900 insurance is no problem, all these are clean car fax, clean title, all under KBB value, the infiniti is $3,000 under value, the rest are about $1000 under value. Any ideas why Audi are so cheap? im just looking for about a 10-11,000 car with low miles. Which should i pick?""

How much would it cost to insure a Dodge Stealth?

I was looking at Dodge Stealths but I am afraid it would cost to much money to insure being I am 17. I'm not talking about the Twin turbo version, I mean the base (which has about 125hp), the ES (about 222hp), or the R/T(same as ES but also has a turbo charger). The car weighs about 2500lbs i believe (if that even matters), also I would not be getting any upgraded body kits for it. Please don't just say a lot or something to that extent. Thank you for your time.""

What insurance is available for those who are between ages 18-24 and can't qualify for Medicaid?

Any low cost health insurances out there?

How much would a car insurance be for a 18 years old?

How much would a car insurance be for a 18 years old?

How cheap could i get insurance?

im 17, gonna be 18, no parking violations tickets or accidents whatsoever. the reason i ask is because the state i live in requires insurance.""

Best health insurance?

Im looking for a great health insurance. One that is reasonable with cost. My location is kansas if it matters.

Health Insurance for a College Student in California?

I am a 19 year old who is a full time student in college. I just moved out of my parents home a while back and well I dont have Health Insurance. I'm in desperate need to see a doctor and as well as a Gyno due to menstruation problems and I tried applying for Medical but on the application it said i couldnt go further unless I was a pregnant person or have children. I just need a affordable plan. Any suggestions for a new-adult?

Which Car Insurance is cheaper at the state of NJ?

I tire of riding in public transportation, I had my licend 1 year ago but the thing is that I am 21 years old and almost a new driver and I want to get the Cheaper option for me. I dont have the car yet but if i found a insurance that fix for me buy it will not be a problem. Let said that i buy a car from Honda 2000. I want something with the basic, i know it going to be hard for my age but their is no impossibe.""

Can insurance companies automatically add new drivers to an existing policy?

I had my g1 (permit) and got my g2 (license). I called the insurance company to get a quote of how much more it is going to cost my dad (which is what I'm going to have to pay) and they are telling me that I have to notify them that my license is now a g2 class. They can't quote me until he calls them (he's at work) when my dad calls to confirm then they will change it automatically and add me. But I don't have a choice if I want to add or not (If I don't like the rate) can they forcibly add me to a policy even if I don't agree with the rate? kinda tricky to explain but I hope you understand what I'm saying and if not then I will add additional details as necessary.

Do I have to have car insurance?

I use to own a car and had insurance I now sold the car and drive a company car 100% of the time. I called my insurance guy and told him to cancel it and he says that Illinois has a state law that says I have to have insurance on a car since I live at home with my parents and everyone in the house has a car. I could potentially get in to one of there cars and be uninsured. I told him I don't cuz I still a car with company insurance he said I have to have a policy with my name on it by law is this true?

""If u wrote-off a $5000 car, on average how much would ur insurance company give you back?""

If u wrote-off a $5000 car, on average how much would ur insurance company give you back?""

When You Buy Car Insurance On The Internet..?

You know when you buy Car Insurance, is it immediate effect? or do you have to wait a certain amount of time until you can go out and drive?""

How much would I pay for car insurance?

Im 19 and I was just wondering what would be a good estimate for how much I would pay for car insurance on like a normal sedan.

Can anyone recommend a good car insurance company?

I'm just looking for some quotes at the moment. To narrow it down: I've been driving for 4 yrs. No accidents. Gieco, State Farm, and All State are not available in my area. Anyone have any experience with any other good car insurance agency?""

Does anyone have recommendations for low-cost health insurance in CA? I can't afford Tonik any longer.?

I am an unemployed healthy 20-something paying around $150 a month (with a high deductible).

If you have two insurances...?

We have two medical insurances on our children. Should there still be a copay? Should having 2 insurances cancel out the copay?

How much will my insurance go up after a minor accident and a aspeeding ticket?

I live in California and in the past 4 months I got in a Fender bender(10MHP and the Guy is claiming bodily injuruy awell.) and In November I got a speeding ticket. But I am unable to attend traffic school cause I fought the ticket. I'm 19 My moms the main insurer on the car and its a sports car. Any idea how much will my insurance will go up? Any Ideas? I might have to sell my car if its too much. I have insurance through Geico.

Will my car insurance pay for surgical weight loss surgery?

i live in michigan and have no fault benefits. i was involved in a car accident 2 years ago and lost my leg resulting in weight gain and need to stabilize my weight to wear prostheis. my doctor wants me to get the surgery and has scheduled an appointment with the weight loss clinic.

Car insurance question?

I recently passed my test, and was looking at car insurance quotes and they're all pretty expensive. I was wondering if I were to just wait until I'm about 23 or 24 before I purchase a car, would the insurance be cheaper, even if I didn't have any driving experience? Thanks in advance.""

Auto insurance limits of liability ?

How high should I reasonably set my liability limits. From what I can tell my current Auto policy limits are $25k and $50k. That seems a bit low to me. My friend said he has $100k and $300k. What do you suggest. We are an average income family, and currently drive and Escalade ESV, and a G35 coupe(Nothing like living beyond your means, you only get one shot at this thing right?).""

I am looking for health insurance for my 9 year old son and i?

in the state of tennessee. any suggestions for max coverage, min cost and no hassles. we were on cigna with my wife but she is now on disability, brain cancer and cobra is killing us. thanks and merry christmas.""

""What company can I use to purchase private dental insurance in Seattle, WA?""

which dental company can I use to purchase affordable dental care privately, not through an employee? For anyone age 18 and over and would cover basic dental visits and surgery such ...show more""

Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

Curryville Pennsylvania Cheap car insurance quotes zip 16631

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/small-business-insurance-quotes-australia-gregory-roberts/"

[azanycollectormilkshakeworl-blog]

Best Place to get a Car Insurance Comparison Free Online?

"Best Place to get a Car Insurance Comparison Free Online?

What sites are best for car insurance comparison? I am trying to find a site that has the widest range of quotes and policies so I can pick insurance cover that is right for me, the plan I have that's due to expire soon is terrible and I feel really ripped off. It's just proving really hard to find something affordable and with good quality cover. Has anyone tried a car insurance comparison site that offers quotes from more than just the usual four or five insurance providers?

BEST ANSWER:  Try this site where you can compare quotes: : http://financeandcreditsolutions.xyz/index.html?src=tumblr 

RELATED QUESTIONS: 

Where can I seek affordable health coverage for general and emergency care?

I'm currently jobless, and living abroad in Central America with my boyfriend. I need health insurance for emergencies and general health care. The plan I had was too expensive and I am desperate for a sense of security in case something happens. Also, I have been struggling with some more minor health issues and need to be able to see an American MD when I am home in the states. Please advise. Would also appreciate helpful weblinks as internet resources. Thanks.""

Car insurance excess?

Hi All, I'm new to car insurance game :). Could someone please explain the logic behnd the following? As a new driver, i got a couple of quotes around 1.5K but then i look at the excess and it shows 3K!!! What are they trying to do here? Make it impossible for me to make a claim? thank you.""

""In Las Vegas, do you have to have car insurance in order to drive? Is it required.?

Do you have to have car insurance to have a license?

Im 16 and just had my second wreck!? what will insurance do?

I just had my second wreck today and both of them have been my fault! Im 16 and my first wreck was last year in late November. Will insurance just raise my rate, drop me, or offer high risk insurance?? have any options on how to get low insurance if i do need to get another insurer?""

I'm 27 years old and I wanna get life insurance ? Any thoughts on which type i should get . ?

simplify your answer please .

Insurance companies for a 18 year old new driver?

Ive just recently passed and im in need of a insurance company good for me. Money is tight as im a student and so i need something cheap. Ive been on money supermarket and its hasn't helped much.

How much can we expect to get from insurance for replacement of car door?

Our 2003 Hyundai Sonata got backed into recently. The lady hit the front passenger door and smashed it in. It still opens, but sounds awful when it does, and the window doesn't work right (power window). She had Farmers insurance, and I've heard bad things about them, but we're gonna get an estimate from different auto body shops around town. How much can we expect the insurance to pay out for this damage?""

Looking for individual dental insurance?

I'm trying to find an affordable good dental insurance company. I've looked online quite a bit and can only find insurance with a 6 mos waiting period or a dental plan that you pay like $100 a year for a discount which seem useles. I'm 30 and live in Ohio if that makes any difference. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

How much does health insurance cost per month?

I'm a freshman and I'm doing a project in my career planning class. I have to make a budget to see how much I need to make from my job. I need to know how much health insurance would cost per person. I want to be an architect or art director so idk if my employer would cover some of the cost or what? I'm kinda confused on this project cause I've never had to think about this stuff.

Tricare/ER Insurance Question?

I lived in Arizona last year and still am in the Tricare West system (out of Luke AFB), although I now live in Ohio. I hurt my ankle several weeks ago and still can't bend it certain ways, and am beginning to suspect a hairline fracture...if I go to the ER (nowhere near any military facilities, especially not with hospitals), and put down my insurance company, will Tricare pay for it (including poss. X-rays) even though I'm still in the Tricare West system? Or should I submit the papers to get a PCM in the North region? (No matter what, I'm assuming I don't need a referral from my PCM to go to the hospital/get X-rays, is this correct?)""

Understanding my Co-Pay Insurance?

This is my co-pay insurance plan 90/70 (in network doctors/other doctors): Co-insurance 90% Out of pocket $4000 Deductible $4000 Here is one example of what they cover: Plan Network Co-pay for physical visits to the office Co-insurance 100% Co-payment $25 Co-insurance preventive 100% Out of Plan Network Deductible $12,000 Co-insurance 70% So, does this mean that I just pay $25 for a physical? Nothing more, unless something additional is done at the visit? When the co-insurance is 80%, does that mean I pay 20% of the bill? and... Is there a difference between Out of pocket and Deductible? Thanks!""

How i can find a cheap car insurance?

How i can find a cheap car insurance?

How much is Car Insurance in the US for a new driver?

Does it depend on the state? Just give me an average price. Im from the UK and my Insurance was 1700 for 1 year.

How much will insurance be for a 16 year old in california?

how much will insurance be for a 16 year old in california? lets say i get a bmw or porsche how much will it be?

How much do 22 year olds pay for car insurance?

How much do 22 year olds pay for car insurance?

Renting a car for prom insurance question?

Ok so im 18 and i currently don't have a license but prom is in like 3 weeks and i will have my license by then. The problem is that i want to rent a car but i dont have auto insurance and i wont have it when i get my license neither because my mom doesnt want her insurance to go up... Is it possible for me to be added as an additional driver to any rental car companies if i dont have any auto insurance and the fact that i just got my license(wen i get it). My Dad is willing to pay everything for the rental car(i dont live with him though) btw i have already found a place where i can get a rental at the age 18(Ez rent a car dot com) but i just want to know can i rent without insurance, like by using there insurance if they have any I refuse to get dropped off to prom by a parent Lol""

How much would car insurance cost for a 17 year old boy for a Ford Focus RS 2003?

I am the 'boy racer' type of a boy. I have the cash to buy a ford focus rs on an 03 registration plate. i was wondering how much car insurance would cost for it? i wish to learn to drive in the car. Ford Focus RS is obviously a very fast car having been used for WRC. It is my favourite car, i can afford it but it would be a massive let down if i couldnt afford insurance on it? please help. any answers are greatly appreciated. thanks""

Are we covered with liability insurance?

if we got in a car accident no 2nd party or whatever its just us 3 in the car 2 of us got sent to the hospital .. the driver that was at fault only has liability insurance .. are we covered with the medical expenses? like if we file a complaint to their insurance can they do something about it since we goin to need therapy and such?

Am I paying too much for car insurance? Advice?!?

I'm 19 years old. Has had my license since I was 16 1/2. No tickets or accidents. Right now I'm paying $150.00 a month with my current insurer (which is based off my Mom's) I recently searched and Liberty Mutual is giving me a quote of $79 dollars a month which is obviously a whole lot cheaper. How easy is it to switch and is there a down payment? And any other advice you may have. Thanks.

Is motorcycle insurance expensive?

I am 18 looking to get a bike want a CBR 600 or something along those lines. My question is how much is it to insure a bike my mother said that the personal protection would be very expensive how does this work and do i need two different kinds of insurance for riding? Like is the personal insurance separate than the insurance on the bike? And don't tell me thats a big bike i have been riding all my life and have took my friends CBR out more than one time i know i will probably kill myself lol

Car Insurance... How much is it really?!?

I am planning on getting a car this summer after school and i am 16.... My parents want to lease a car for me from Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep since we get a discount. I really want the dodge SRT-4 but i think it will be too much insurance at this point in my life... can someone tell me roughly how much it would be??? thx!

Engine size/Car insurance?

I'm planning what car I want to buy after I do my test next year. I've seen some nice used Land Rovers, but I'm told the insurance will probably be sky high because of their engine. Is this true? It'll be a 5 door and the engine will probably be 1796. Can anyone explain this to me? The difference in engine size and what that will mean? Thanks""

How do I get free insurance until I can get my health back so I can work again to pay for insurance?

How do I get free insurance until I can get my health back so I can work again to pay for insurance?

How much would insurance be for a 750cc Motorbike for a 21 year old male (UK)?

I'm talking averages, what would be considered 'overly expensive'? Full licence and CBT. I don't have the bike so can't input the details on an insurance comparison site, I'm only considering it if it is better value to get the less powerful 125. Cheers.""

I have just passed my test and i have been looking for car insurances and i added my partner as a named driver?

I have been looking at car insurances and i added my partner as a named driver and she only have a provisional license and it has come out 600 pound cheaper, every thing is correct on the quote, does anyone know why this is.""

Best Place to get a Car Insurance Comparison Free Online?

What sites are best for car insurance comparison? I am trying to find a site that has the widest range of quotes and policies so I can pick insurance cover that is right for me, the plan I have that's due to expire soon is terrible and I feel really ripped off. It's just proving really hard to find something affordable and with good quality cover. Has anyone tried a car insurance comparison site that offers quotes from more than just the usual four or five insurance providers?

Thinking Of Insurance For A Car Even Know Im 15.?

Hi There For Ages Now i have been looking for an insurance site that does not have an age restrictor on it Because i am thinking of my first car. I Know quite abit to do with insurance im not a noob e.g ( I Will not be insured on a Nissan Skyline Lol ) Anyway .. I Was just wonderin if any 1 had any sites they would just giv out a price and not ask for your age. I Want my first car to be aither: A Citroen Saxo 1.2 or 1.0L , A Vaxhaul Corsa B Or C 1.2 Or 1.4L Or A Pugeote 106 1.2 , or 1,4 < This 1 I really want The 1.4 Engine. If There Is no such insurance site without an age restrictor Could somebody tell me what price it would be for the 106 1.4 L As A New Driver Please . Thanks And Hope You Answer. :)""

""In Florida, if I let my car insurance expire, will my drivers License get suspended?""

I am not in debt with the insurance company, but I just cannot afford to continue paying for the insurance right now. So what exactly would happen if I just let the insurance expire? Would I be fined, license suspended/revoked or what? I don't plan on driving the car without insurance, but I do need to be able to drive a car.""

Life insurance? i dont feel right about this company?

Hi i applied for life insurance through sun life financial. are they a good company? who do you get your life insurance from? is it even important? anyways, they still havent drawn up my policy since i have applied, even though was approved. All i was looking for was a simple life insurance i can afford, and they added in a whole bunch of accessories to go along with it. anyways, they keep coming back for many tests. which would have been hell of a lot convenient if they did these tests all in one place in one time. rather than having to do 4 or 5 tests over the past 4 months. it drives me crazy now that they are always phoning, needing this and that...now im starting to consider if i even want my life insurance with them also, is it even necessary to have life insurance along with critical illness and disability? i am just a studetn on a budget with two young boys at home. whats your take?""

Does car insurance cost more money for Asian people?

Does car insurance cost more money for Asian people?

""Where can I get the best, most comprehensive earthquake coverage for a condo in san francisco, california?""

i have already seen what the california earthquake authority (CEA) offers, which is not a whole lot. what are my other options for greater coverage?""

Car insurance price?

Does car insurance price depend on the safety of the car? Like a car that has 5 star crash test rating, does that mean the premium will be lower than a car has 3 star rating? Thanks.""

What type of insurance is auto insurance?

http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0200-industry/0050-renew-license/0200-requirements/index.cfm out of all these types which is for auto? and if i wanted to work in a place that sells life insurance do i have to get certified for that too?

Cheapest motorcycle insurance in Utah?

I am a first time rider, what is the cheapest inurance I can get in the Salt Lake area?""

How much do you pay for health insurance per month?

Just your portion/ per month / your age I am 30 and did not choose a health plan at work because I think $170 a month for basic HMO is too much for a single healthy person. I used to pay $60 with dental and vision at my last job (which I know is really cheap). When I interviewed here they told me they had a great health plan. Well, guess what they lied! I will definatly be asking more questions about health insurance when I talk salary for my next position.""

Where can a 18 year old female get cheap car insurance?

I've looked around everywhere and the cheapest i could find was 2200, would it be cheaper if i phoned up the companies or what? how do they expect ,e to be able to afford that im a student and live in a village so i need it to commute to work and college. i cant rely on the buses because there always late and stuff. i would be willing to pay something around 1000. i have a fiat punto 1.2 and just past my test, i was going to do a pass plus test but they dont even ask if you have done anything like that.""

""Toyota celica, my first car?""

so im getting a 2004 toyota celica gts as my first car and im wondering how much my insurance will go up just by having this kind of car and being a teenage male? also what color is best, i cant decide between silver or black. i love black cars but i think the celica looks great in silver too. are black cars really a pain to have to clean all the time and which would look best? and does anyone know if they are well built cars""

""Help! looking for affordable healthcare insurance in atlanta, ga?""

i am a single mom recently laid off from work. i have asthma and take a prescribed drug every day. i am running out and just to see my dr. for a new rx is $125 and then for a 30day supply is $150. too costly for me. i have tried research online for healthcare companies but keep getting redirected to other sites. i am looking for insurance around $100 a mnth that could give me a copay of $25-35 for visits and prescriptions. can anyone offer any advice. all this health care insurance is so confusing, with the detuctibiles etc.""

I want a car but my parents wont pay for insurance?

I asked this question before, but people were being extremely rude so I deleted it. If I get a car, I will be paying for everything myself. The car, the gas, the maintenance, etc. The only thing that I will not be able to afford is the insurance. I don't really care about having my own car, but I can't drive my parents' cars: my mom's is for her work, and my dad's is really expensive and he doesn't want me driving it. Either way, just to drive someone else's car I have to have insurance to cover myself and any damages I could cause in case of anything. So, anyways, the only thing I need my parents to pay for is the insurance. They absoulutley refuse. They think that I don't need to drive. I don't want to depend on my friends to drive me everywhere. They can definitely afford insurance, they just don't want to pay for it. I might sound spoiled or whatever but I'm not. Ever since I could remember, I've had to pay for most of everything I own. All of my clothes, toys (when I played with them), iPods, the computer that I'm on right now. I'm paying for my text messaging, too. so, I understand the value of money. I just want them to pay for this one thing. so, my plan was to buy a car, and then threaten to drive uninsured until they get insurance. Kind of mean, I know, but I'md esperate. What do you think?""

What is the best and most affordable car insurance company in New York?

Particularly NYC?

I need insurance on my car and need to keep the cost low as possible?

Will it be ok to cut out the no claims protection or is this a must, I have over ten years, is there any other way to keep it low. Thanks""

Do I need a consent to settle by my own auto insurance company?

The guy who hit me does not have an ample amount of insurance to cover my injuries. They are offering me the policy limits to settle. My own uninsured or uninsured motorist has been given enough documentation to know that my additional insurance will come into play. I have filed suit against the guy and his insurance company, but do I need a letter of consent to settle with them from my own insurance company to make sure that my uninsured motorist coverage will still be available to me. I really think it is criminal for any insurance company or state to make the limits on auto insurance so low, when the average cost of an auto accident is higher than the minimum coverages that they allow drivers to driver under. Also, there are many attorneys that wont even look at taking a case unless the limits are much higher than state minimum, because they can make considerably more on those who are very well insured. My own insurance company is treating my like I am retarded, and I was until I started reading all the insurance laws and bought a very fine civil litigation book for 4 dollars, best investment I ever made. But I am no Pro Se expert, my hat is tipped to you attorneys and insurance adjusters. What a stressful job you have and so many laws to abide by and to follow. I can only get better the more I read the more I know. Thanks for your time.""

Car insurance........................ car insurance have agreed to?

pay for my car after it was stolen and written off. they agreed to pay 200 pounds which is well more than i paid for it.so it looked like a good deal, however, 100 is the excess which i thought left me with 100..NOT the case,,they have taken the other 100 to pay for the years insurance which i wont use as i dont have a car...plus when i complained..they advised me to drop the claim and i dont get anything nor do i owe anything except the fee from the recovery collection which is 150. is this extortionate or what ??are they allowed to do this..i still owe them 20 pounds for the o/s amount for the years insurance as i insisted they do make it as a claim..and they wont take it as 2 seperate d/d payments either as i dont now have a car..HOW CRAP IS THAT ??? what can i do to get my money back""

Why do wives have to be on husbands car insurance?

I have been under my parents car insurance for my whole driving life and now I am married. My husband is a new driver in the USA, and because we just bought a new car, we have to be ...show more""

How much will it cost (roughly) for a 21 year old to insure a new Audi A1 S-line 1.2?

its in the 1-10 band for the insurance which is the lowest group. the audi a1 is number 9. but i want to know what i would be expecting to pay insurance wise! would appreciate any comments.

Health insurance after you've turned 18?

My mother receives Social Security checks and insurance (She had cancer, and can't work due to other conditions brought on by the chemotherapy) and because of this, I had medicaid. I turned 18 last month and I'm wondering if I automatically get cut off from her insurance, or if I stay on the plan because I'll be a student in the fall. I know the system for this changed recently, so I have no idea if I still have insurance or not.""

""Auto Financing Insurance, does it exist?

Is there such a thing as auto financing insurance. i know when you apply for a credit card they ask you if you want insurance in case you lose your job or accident or whatever and they would make the payments for you. But do any companies out there exist that do this kind of thing for auto financing. Im going to be buying a car within a week and wanted to know Thanks

Car bump and getting insurance.?

I had a bump around a year and a half ago and there was very minimal damage and no injuries, the woman gave a different name to me than to the insurance and I think maybe she wasn't insured? If the case was closed and went nowhere but the insurance company knew would this be recorded on their system.""

Abt cancelation of car insurance?

i have taken car insurance from admiral .its abt 10 months installments.each month 70 pounds direct debit,its a third party insurance.unfortuntaely after paying 1 month(70) insurance.my car got big accident.i had given my car to scrap. when i called to my admiral insurance company to cancel my insurace.they are not doing it.pls can u tell me any other way to cancel my insurance..can i cancel my direct debit of insurance from bank?is der any problemss if i do direct debit""

How can i get a car by using a cheap car insurance ?

I am in need.

Which state has the most affordable health insurance?

Which state has the most affordable health insurance?

Best Place to get a Car Insurance Comparison Free Online?

What sites are best for car insurance comparison? I am trying to find a site that has the widest range of quotes and policies so I can pick insurance cover that is right for me, the plan I have that's due to expire soon is terrible and I feel really ripped off. It's just proving really hard to find something affordable and with good quality cover. Has anyone tried a car insurance comparison site that offers quotes from more than just the usual four or five insurance providers?

Maternity related services considered inpatient for insurance?

Most individual plans (87%) do not offer maternity coverage. I was fortunate enough to still be covered under an old employer by paying COBRA, and a majority of my expenses were covered. I had twins and had to have a C-Section. So now that I know I'm most likely to have a C-Section again, and who knows, another set of twins! (complete surprise) and am still of child bearing age. I am now under an individual plan, that does not offer maternity coverage. I was reading under the 'Inpatient' services and it listed this: Unlimited coverage is provided for medically necessary physician and surgeon services, semi-private rooms, operating rooms and related facilities, intensive and coronary care units, laboratory, x-rays, radiology services and procedures, medications and biologicals, anesthesia, special duty nursing as prescribed, short-term rehabilitation services, nursing care, meals and special diets So anyone who has experience or knowledge, would something like a C-Section be covered under inpatient? What does maternity coverage only cover normally. That $60*** bill scares me! Also, I keep reading about a new health care bill effective 2014 where individual plans must include maternity as an essential benefit. Anyone have any more details about that? State specific etc?""

Insurance question?

When setting up your insurance online does the company know how many years NCB you have? if not could you lie?

""My monthly car insurance payment was due 1 day before i had an accident. i have been paying on time,?""

been paying on time, but hadnt made this one. I'm I covered?""

How much is Delta Airlines health insurance premium?

For an Economics family project, I have to be a flight attendant, make a monthly budget and help take care of my family. Probably the only thing missing from my project is health insurance. If I get it through my job , how much does the premium cost or is it covered?""

Who are the best and worst car insurance companies?

I'm looking for a new car insurance company and would like to hear other peoples experiences to help me choose. Thanks!

What is car insurance?

Just car insurance definition not more other else. It's for my own mind calculation.

What health insurance can I get?

When I turned 19, I no longer qualified for my healthy families program. So I currently don't have any kind of health insurance. I have some very suspicious moles that I wanted to get checked but was shock at the cost. I believe my family is considered low income. What kinds of health insurance plans are out there that are affordable and will cover my dermatologist visits?""

Health Insurance and Pre-existing Conditions?

What kinds of pre-existing conditions can give you a problem when getting your own health insurance?

Where can i buy rebuild-able cars from insurance companies?

I live in the state of Indiana, is there a place where i can buy rebuild-able cars from insurance companies, or from a action place where they are not so expensive?""

Are insurance rates different for a lifted Toyota Tacoma rather than a normal one?

I know i'm getting a used Toyota Tacoma, under 100K mileage, and I really want a lifted one, but I need to know if insurance rates are different?""

Does anyone know of any good prescription insurance?

We are a low income family who apparently make too much to qualify for any state assistance. I have expensive medicine needed for panic disorder every month and can't afford it. Does anyone know of any prescription plans that are affordable and worth it?

Which auto insurance company to choose?

Geico's quote was WAY lower than anybody else's. Several hundred dollars lower, in fact. When I asked an Allstate agent about the difference, he said it was mainly due to Allstate offering more types of insurance, investments, better customer service, and that Geico's quote was low just to get you in the door and that it would go up once I appeared interested. After a 10 minute monologue of him explaining this, he quickly printed my quote and rushed me out of his office. Does anyone have experience with Geico? All I need is auto and maybe renter's insurance. I don't need them to manage my retirement! Are they as underhanded about raising quotes as I was told?""

How do I challenge my auto insurance company's appraisal of damages to other car in an at-fault(my) acci ?

I read-ended another car at an intersection. Both of us were stopped at a light. When the light turned green, the other car started moving and immediately slammed on brakes. In the meanwhile, I had taken my foot off brake and hit the car (at < 5mph). The other party has filed claim for $1350 for damages and also for unknown amount of bodily injury. There is not even a mark of any collision on my car (as the speed was low). My insurance company has agreed to their claim related to damages and is waiting for the exact amount for the bodily injury claim. This has been quite unfair to me and will definitely bump up my premium like crazy. Is there any way I can challenge my insurance company's appraisal of the damages ? Are there any other alternatives ? What kind of evidence would I need to furnish for the same ? We had called a Cop to report the accident. I wanted him to note that the impact was at < 5mph. However, he refused to do that saying that this would be left to insurance""

Can I throw away my old insurance card?

I got new insurance. do I need to keep the old card for any records?

Looking for insurance to cover me?

lost my license and to get them back you have to have car that is insured,dont have car so the DMV said that i could insure myself.""

Argument with car insurance company any advice?

recently suffered total loss due to fire of my car and claimed on my insurance policy they came and valued the car after the accident and then took 300 quid off for policy excess however it clearly states in their policy that they cover permanently fitted radio/audio equipment to max of 500 euro , fair enough so i submitted my claim to cover the radio which was destroyed with the car as a result of fire , cost of cd/radio was 149.00 in argos but company now say that their definition of permanently fitted radio is one that has been fitted in the factory when car was made but my car is secondhand and had a sony cd/radio fitted when i bought the car . Now they say this is not covered as is not classed as permanently fitted , to me a permanently fitted radio is one that you cannot take out of the car unless you are replacing it , some cd/mp3 players are easily removed for security and can be taken from the car each evening but this is not the case with mine Anyone else out there been taken for a ride by their insurance company , was thinking of legal action as they should have specified factory fitted radio in their advertising instead of permanently fitted Had arguement with them for 30 mins but they kept saying that the radio/audio had to be factory fitted from new""

Where can I get the cheapest auto insurance?

Im a 16 year old male who lives in new orleans. I have a 3.8 GPA, and my car has a 5-star crash rating (2010 Toyota Camry Hybrid). Where can i get affordable insurance?""

""My friend has been driving for twenty years so many as taxi driver, he cant get cheap insurance?""

why can't he get cheap insurance for being an experienced driver. same as for example myself driving for 19 years no convictions or claims,only down fall being a named driver on spouses insurance. i know to get the no claims bonus i have to get insurance in my name. but wow what a fair wack, for being a careful and honest driver all these years.any info would be appreciated.i think it unfair that we should pay the same as a new and young driver with no experience. many thanx for any help""

How much would it cost to insure a 1995-2000 Ford Mustang?

Something with around 80k-100k miles. Everything stock no mods or tuning. Not convertible. Im 18 so i know itll be a decent amount. Im going to have my dad co sign on the car to help lower the insurance. Itll be used for maybe 3 times a week and ill put maybe 5k a year on it. Im on gieco currently and they wont give me an accurate qoute and i know you wont really be able to but if you give me the same number itll be the set amount ill asume. Thanks

Question with car insurance?

Okay so we have two cars. One 1992 buick and a 2006 civic coupe. I usually drive the coup and my name was on the insurance for it, but recently my parents swapped insurance to save money but it involved switching my name to the buick and their name onto the civic. They tell me i can't drive the civic anymore b/c if i get into an accident then it won't be covered since it's under their name and not mine. Is this really true? I thought that as long as the car is insured it's covered?""

If my auto insurance cancel how much grace period is there after the due date?

If my auto insurance cancel how much grace period is there after the due date?

California Speeding ticket and no proof of insurance?

It was dark and raining. I just came off the bay bridge in SF and am positive I was driving below 40 on the bridge and between 40-60 when I got off the bridge. The cop was on 80E past fremont exit. He said I was at 67 in a 50 zone and also did not give me enough time to look for my proof of insurance. He said lets make this easy and quick and cited me for speeding and the no proof of insurance as non-correctable. It this accurate? I don't think his radar reading is accurate. How can I challenge this?

About how much is car insurance in British Columbia?

About how much is car insurance in British Columbia, particularly Vancouver or nearby? Perhaps if you could share how much it costs you or someone in your family with a good driving record. Perhaps give a hint of what car you have, liability limits, etc. In the U.S., you can get online quotes. For Canada, I've never seen anything like it.""

I need cheap car insurance in New York City?

I need cheap (FULL) coverage for a financed vehicle in the NEw York Area...I've tried the popular sites...any leads?

Dropped from car insurance?

I got dropped from my insurance because i could not afford it.. I have money now to pay for the insurance so what do i do now. Can i go to another company or can i try to be reinstated with my previous company. If i try to be reinstate how would i go about doing that. ps car insurance

Best Place to get a Car Insurance Comparison Free Online?

What sites are best for car insurance comparison? I am trying to find a site that has the widest range of quotes and policies so I can pick insurance cover that is right for me, the plan I have that's due to expire soon is terrible and I feel really ripped off. It's just proving really hard to find something affordable and with good quality cover. Has anyone tried a car insurance comparison site that offers quotes from more than just the usual four or five insurance providers?

Which is cheapest car insurance in new york?

i want to buy a car but i know the insurance of the car is very expensive. I will like to know if there is a car insurance that i can afford.

Pregnant And Can't Get On State Health Insurance!! What Should I Do!?

I'm so pissed off!! I have tons of medical bills stacking up and I am on no health insurance! Because I live with my parents and am under age 21 (I'm 20 and will be til May), and I already have one son. Thankfully he's covered. But I have all these bills that are stacking up and won't be able to be paid off because by the time I get on anything it'll be past the 3 month time limit for back pay!! I live in MN and the problem with getting my parents income is my mom and dad both have new jobs, but my dad was laid off his old job so how the hell am I supposed to get his stop work form filled out by a company that no longer exists!?! I can't get on anything unless I have their income!! Even tho' I'm 4 months pregnant!! This is so f***'d up!!""

Finding information about monthly payments?

I am currently looking to move out of my parents house and get an apartment with a friend of mine that is 45 mins away from my hometown. I am a sophmore in college and I would like to have the experience of living on my own for a couple years near my parents before I move thousands of miles away after college for my career plans. Now I am looking into my costs and spendings on living on my own. But the problem is I really don't want to talk to my parents about this until I get it all planned out. But I need to find out how much my car insurance, health insurance, life insurance, car payments (if there is still any), cellphone bill...and other expenses that I need to find out on a monthly basis to get an idea of what it will cost for me to live on my own because my parents pay majority of everything for me and I just been working and saving money for this opportunity to live on my own with a roommate or two or three (maybe). How can I find out this information when the expenses are not in my name but in my parents name? And without my parents finding out that I am looking at all this? Thank you!""

""Someone else got a speeding ticket in my car, does my insurance rates go up?""

My fianc was driving my car when we were coming home from dinner, he was doing about 17 over I believe and got a ticket, however he's a permit driver.. The car is mine and is insured and registered in my name, I gave my license and registration to the cop when he took my fianc permit, the ticket only had his info on it, my plate number and the date my registration expires. No other information of mine is on there. He didn't ask to see my insurance card. So question is, are my rates going to go up because my fianc was driving and caught speeding?""

Do i need to add extra car insurance?

Hello. My father has a BMW and i am 16. When i am 17 i want to share the BMW with my father. My father has insurance on the car already. Its a full cover insurance. When i am 17 do i need to add extra insurance to the car or do i just leave it as it is? Do i need to add my name along with my dads name to the owner of the car?

How can i get cheap car insurance?

is there anyway i could reduce my insurance costs

How can I get 'cheap' car insurance?!?

I'm going to be 17 in May so I've been trying out some qoutes because I really want to drive ASAP. I can't get a qoute for under 3000!!!! I got a qoute for Rover 25 1.4L iL, third party fire and theft, main driver, and with my mum on it aswell, for 3260. It's ridiculous! Where shall I go to try and get a good cheap? It's so unfair! I just want to be able to drive hahaha!""

Insurance on a Hummer H1?

how much would that cost?

Insurance Rate for a ZX6R !?

anyone know how much insurance would roughly be for a 17 year old 2007 ZX6R Motorcycle Course Completed In Ontario Thanks!!!

""So i have a full coverage on my car insurance, and now this situation, need advice?

The insurance estimator guy told me that i can only take my car to a specific place to be repaired OTHERWISE he is going to tell me that the car being ruined was my fault (it ...show more

What is the best teen driver insurance in California?

Taking driving test tomorrow and need insurance coverage for just me, 18 years old.""

Best health insurance for young single people?

I'm looking for informaiton about health insurance for a single, young man...he is 27. Are there any affordable policies out there that may provide minimal coverage (annual well visit, a couple sick visits, one prescription, some emergency?)""

Insurance on a 2005 premium mustang v6?

hello, my daughter is 17 years old and i am thinking about getting her a 2005 premium mustang v6. she is on the honor roll, hasn't had any problems or accidents as far as driving goes, and really doesn't drive much. we live in a rural area. how much would insurance cost? our insurance company offers some plan where if you're getting good grades, you get a discount. how much would it all be? i have her driving a 2012 volkswagen jetta now and it's very pricey.""

How much will my insurance go uop?

i was in an accident not to long ago. My car was totaled and my insuranced paid it off ($13,000) it wasnt my fault but im 20 and ive been driving for 3 years but recently got my license last year. i was already paying 250 a month, how much more will i have to pay?? my car was an 05 altima. now its a case of he ran a red light, versus she ran a red light""

Question about speeding ticket/insurance?

I had a speeding ticket for going 55 in a 45 mph, would that make my insurance rates go up?""

The cheapest insurance band car my 17 year old son can buy?

My son is going to have driving lessons soon and I'd like to know the type of car to buy which will be the cheapest on insurance for him. Also will it be better for me to buy it and him be the named driver or the other way aound? Thanks

How much is teen auto insurance?

i normally have bs and as and rarely cs for school. About how much would auto insurance be?

What is the cheapest auto insurance company?

looking for a very affordable auto insurance quote/payment per month. Anyone knows? please and thank you.

""Financed car damaged,no insurance.what to do?!?

long story short... my car cost 7000 to fix and i dont have any insurance. i want to have the finance company to get the car.what happens once they get it? will i have to pay off the loan or just pay for the damages done?

How much does car insurance cost for a 17 year old?

I can get my license anytime now. North Carolina doesn't offer good student discount. I'm asian, will be driving my dad's 2000 Ford Windstar with 70,000 miles. My dad says that adding me on to his allstate account would cost 1100 every six months. That sounds a little exaggerated. Is there anywhere else where I can find cheaper insurance?""

What's the best car insurance?

Got a good quote from 21st century insurance. I'm thinking of switching from my Geico. I'd save a little bit but if anyone thinks Geico is a much better company then I'd probably stay. Any advice out there? Should I keep looking? I live in Florida. Thanks!

How can I find affordable health insurance for small business owners?

How can I find affordable health insurance for small business owners?

Current or prospective vehicle insurance?

i was preapproved for financing a used vehicle; they want me to bring in proof of insurance when i close loan. does this mean my current insurance on the vehicle i wont be using anymore or for the new one that i dont own yet

How can life insurance be profitable for insurance companies?

How can personal life insurance actually make a profit for an insurer, when it is universal that any insured person will eventually die? Is it because insurance companies stop offering life insurance cover as soon as the person reaches a certain age, so the vast majority of deaths are not insurable?""

Looking for affordable health insurance for the sefl employed?

i cannot find any affordable insurance and i need assistance

Best Place to get a Car Insurance Comparison Free Online?

What sites are best for car insurance comparison? I am trying to find a site that has the widest range of quotes and policies so I can pick insurance cover that is right for me, the plan I have that's due to expire soon is terrible and I feel really ripped off. It's just proving really hard to find something affordable and with good quality cover. Has anyone tried a car insurance comparison site that offers quotes from more than just the usual four or five insurance providers?

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/does-anyone-know-any-cheap-car-insurance-so-i-can-put-sigrun-sharpe"