#ignoring that usually people just like a different sapphic ship more?? there is a lot of ronance vs rovickie shit so where's the logic??

[devondespresso]

just scrolled through vickie tag without any filters and oh god oh boy you never realize how nicely cultivated your dash is until you get to see all of it (tags vent post sorry)

[alpaca-clouds]

The Top/Bottom Thing

Okay, I need to vent about something. Because it really annoys me. You do not need to agree with me, but this is my blog, so I can vent about it all I want.

I hate how a lot of fandom stuff clearly assigns queer ships the "top/bottom" dynamic. I hate it so much. Because for the most part, it just tends to enforce heteronormative standards. Especially when we see who gets to be the top and who gets to be the bottom. Because, spoileralert, most of the time this is completely and utterly based on who is the more feminine and the more masculine between the characters.

Let's put a pin in that, because I want to talk about something else first.

*clears throat* You folks are aware that a lot of queer people switch positions, right? Sure, there are some that prefer one thing over the other, but in general a lot of queer relationships do not have "the top" and "the bottom". This is true for both gay and lesbian relationships. (And while we are on it: Some gay men do not like anal sex. I know, shocking, right?)

The reason this is so popular with fan related stuff (and also non-fandom female oriented mlm original fiction), really is that it kinda enforces heteronormative relationship dynamics.

A lot of queer people in same-sex relationships - especially of the millennia and older generations - know the question of: "But who in your relationship is the man and who is the woman?" Because straight people cannot imagine a relationship in which the partners are eye to eye.

In earlier queer anime/manga fandom we still had the idea of uke and seme. In which the uke was the girl in every way imaginable. It often looked something like this:

You had the big, masculine seme, and the soft, feminine, petit uke. In some manga it went so far, that the uke was even drawn like a girl. They tended to be like girls - just without breasts. It was also one of the main reasons for a lot of gay men in Japan very much despising yaoi, keeping very much with their own gay manga genre, bara.

Now, admittedly by now this has mellowed out a lot in yaoi manga. Newer yaois tend to have way less physical difference between the uke and the seme. While often we still have the scenario that the seme is more powerful and influencial, at least the uke is no longer "a girl".

Still, this dynamic then also got duplicated on fanfictions at the time. Basically fandom usually decided (especially with anime fandoms) that within a gay ship one was the uke and one was the seme. So in the fanfictions that followed, any canon characterisation would be ignored in favor of making the seme toxic masculine and the uke a little damsel in distress, who would cry a lot.

Now, most of fandom has grown out of this phase (thank God), and uke and seme has mostly been replaced by the idea of top and bottom, which usually tends to be way less extreme in the depiction. But... the general issue is still there, right?

Because... people still kinda subconsciously enforce the idea of a heteronormative relationship with queer ships.

For those who usually do not engage with this, quickly let me explain: The idea of Top and Bottom is about, who is the "giving" and who is the "receiving" part within a relationship. The bottom is the one, who gets penetrated, the top is the one who penetrates, to overly simplify this. But also generally it also kinda means, that the "top" tends in most stories be the one who holds the control or more control within the sexual scene. This is especially a big thing with male on male smut, where a lot of stories male it clear that one of the two characters in anal sex is the one who gets fucked, with the other one doing the fucking.

And most of the time this is very much based on who of the ship is the more outwardly masculine and who is more feminine. And yes, this even holds true for sapphic ships. Let me talk about some of my own ships, so you can see what I mean, alright?

Alucard/Trevor (Castlevania) is probably the least strong on this one. While a lot of fanwork has Alucard as the "bottom" - you know, the long haired, rather androgynous twink - his femininity clearly is a bit cancelled out by being half-vampire. So there is in fact a lot of stuff where he gets to be "the top". But still, there is a definitive tendency to have him as the bottom.

Hector/Isaac (Castlevania) is one, where I literally have never once seen a fic with Hector topping. Admittedly, I can understand it with them in so far, that Hector is not only feminine, but also clearly shown to be submissive within the show. So both things kinda go into one another. But, you know... While I have him be the submissive one and passive one more often, I do make a point of switching it around a bit. (And it should be noted: I have not found a single fic outside of my own, that even adress the fact that Isaac might actually not want to do anal sex, because the Qur'an is very clear on the topic of it being a taboo.)

Mizrak/Olrox (Castlevania: Nocturne) to me is probably the most offensive one in regards of Castlevania gay ships. Because while still fairly new, I only so far have seen Olrox as the bottom. Because of course the more feminine one, with a very masculine partner, has to be the bottom. *eye roll* Which in their case does so clearly just not even have any other possible explanation rather than "the masculine and the feminine". I doubly hate this, because this does play into a lot of racist ideas about indigenous men, but I will not go into that now. Just... why?

Joe/Cherry Blossom (SK8) is another one, were one partner is very masculine and one is very feminine in their appearance. And of course... this translates to like 90% of the fandom having Joe top and Cherry bottom. *sighs* I can't even...

Viktor/Jayce (Arcane) are a bit different, as neither of them is very feminine. Buuuut of course Jayce is still the more masculine between the two of them, so... yeah, you know it.

And again, this is even true for sapphic ships. I had people being very upset at me writing CaitVi a little kinky with a submissive Vi and a dominant Caitlyn. Because again, Caitlyn is more feminine, Vi more musculine. So oft course people want the relationship dynamic to reflect this...

And that... is exactly my point.

See, when I brought this up in fandom spaces, the answers I got were like: "Well, I just think that is their sexual preference." But of course not a single person could answer me, why that was. Why they think the more feminine (within a western understanding of this, mind you) would be the one who would prefer bottoming.

And that is without - again - going into the fact that not all gay people will have or enjoy anal sex and frankly, I find it unimaginative, how in so much gay fiction, anal sex gets depicted as the end-all-be-all.

I mean, I will openly admit that, yes, this does not only hold true for women writing gay fiction. Because there is a lot of historical baggage in this regard within the gay community itself. Because, yes, this was something explicitly forbidden by a lot of religion. Because, yes, this also is the one way (well, with the exception of 69) for gay man to have sex that can be pleasurable for both at the same time. And because, yes, there is a whole lot of just stuff of it being condemned and... It is a whole big thing.

But I just... I would just wish for it to be depicted with a bit more nuance. And for it to stop enforcing heteronormative genderroles. Because... god damn it. I am so sick of all of that.

[the-heartlines]

This is such a broad question that might differ for many people, so if you feel that you can’t answer it please don’t feel obligated to.

I’ve seen a lot of disdain for the Jace/Baela relationship, so much so people would rather ship Jace with Cregan (which I’m truly okay with bc it’s fun and harmless) while also completely ignoring Baela as a character. I know you have shared in the past that you’re not fond of the pairing, why have you not taken a liking to them?

Anyways, I enjoy your fics and think you add a lot of value and structure to the characters you’re writing for!

wait i DO like jaecela!! (i even wrote a sapphic jacaela drabble a while back!) 😩😭 i actually ADORE jace/baela/cregan even MORE so than jacegan on it's own ! (i 98% of the time usually need to have a female character in the ship because i just prefer m/f and wlw ships to mlm! that's why i have a difficult time just writing yaoi vs ot3s with bisexual characters and why ships like helaegond appeal to me vs. aegond—even tho i like aegond a lot!)

jacegan was actually the very first true mlm ship that i fell in love with (but i do not ever want to put aside a black female character and if i see baela haters it's ON!!!)

for me, i tend to ship more toxic dd:dne ships for baela—like daemon/baela, baela/aegon, even baela/rhaena has been on my mind for a MOMENT (🥵🔥)

but i actually do not truly dislike any ship in hotd fr fr. i may find it boring or bland or it doesn't spark excitement, but i do not truly have a notp!!!

ngl queen baela and king jace would have been HOT HOT !!! also thank you for the gracious compliment!!!