#if you don't understand mai / maiko then

[beifong-brainrot]

I am definetly in the minority here, but I was always so deeply touched by Mai's confession during that scene.

There's just something about Mai's confession that makes me feel so unbearably sad. I think the first thing that hits me is just how... empty she seems in this situation compared to the rest of the Firesome Foursome. Zuko is angry™️ and lashing out, Ty Lee is sad and concerned and Azula is posturing. But Mai is just so devoid of even sadness around her chidlhood trauma.

It's sort of like she shut down emotionally to some extent, (even more than usual) especially after her fight with Zuko.

This is quite a common reaction to arguments from someone who was raised to be obedient and non-confrontational, so I'm not surprised she was acting like this.

Analysing Mai's behaviour on the beach is interesting.

She seems to try to reach out to Zuko in her own, tepid little way by greeting him, but clams back up when he asks her where "her new boyfriend" was. This leads to her smacking his hand away when he tries to reach out to her by asking if she's cold. They're both trying to mend the bridge, but end up escalating the conflict further.

She remains silent for a good while, but does speak up in order to defend Ty Lee from Zuko lashing out. Despite this, when Zuko persists, Mai doesn't push the issue, perhaps due to her upbringing to be placid.

Due to this, I find it intriguing when Mai mocks Ty Lee for attention seeking, since she had attempted to defend Ty Lee from Zuko's ridicule. But perhaps its due to jealousy or frustration by Ty Lee's freely expressed sorrow and trauma that made Mai lash out in her own way.

Or it's just because the writers didn't know how to jump from Ty Lee's traumadump to Mai's lol

This is where we get into the meat and potatoes of Mai's confession.

Ty Lee bites back at Mai and parrots Zuko's opinion of Mai being "a big blah" as he said.

Ty Lee : Well, what's your excuse, Mai? You were an only child for fifteen years, but even with all that attention, your aura is this dingy, pasty, gray ... Mai : I don't believe in auras. Zuko: Yeah, you don't believe in anything. Mai : Oh, well, I'm sorry I can't be as high-strung and crazy as the rest of you. Zuko: I'm sorry, too. I wish you would be high-strung and crazy for once instead of keeping all your feelings bottled up inside. She just called your aura dingy. Are you gonna take that?

I think what's interesting here is that while Ty Lee saw Mai as recieving the attention Ty Lee had craved, Mai seemed to receive less loving, parental attention, and more scrutiny. Mai's parents also seem to be actually rather neglectful emotionally towards Mai and them just leaving Tom Tom unsupervised behind a screen in Omashu leaves me questioning if they actually cared that much.

Mai deflects, not adressing Ty Lee's question, but rather focusing on the nebulous concept of auras instead. When Zuko butts in, trying to rile her up, Mai gives a sarcastic apology. I find it very interesting that she sets hereself so aside from the others in terms of her not being "high strung and crazy", because it really shows the difference in Mai's upbringing and that of her companions. Azula and Zuko were raised to be leaders and fighters, and their "firebender instincts" were encouraged, while Ty Lee persumably had to compete for attention with her siblings. While Mai was raised with the :be seen and not heard" mentality.

Now is also a good time to mention that I think Mai has almost comically obvious signs of depression, which wouldn't be a stretch.

Zuko calling Mai out for not getting angry over Ty Lee insulting her aura leads me to my next point. Persumably, being a child raised by parents like Michi and Ukano, Mai wasn't allowed to voice her discomfort, offence or upset. Hell we see this in Omashu when Mai complains about being bored and Michi basically shuts her down and tells her to enjoy it.

I mean look at the expression Michi gives Mai when she starts complaining about being bored, a very normal teenager thing to do.

And when Mai finally does speak her mind, it is no less heartwrenching.

Mai : What do you want from me? You want a teary confession about how hard my childhood was? Well, it wasn't. I was a rich only child who got anything I wanted... as long as I behaved and sat still, and didn't speak unless spoken to. My mother said I had to keep out of trouble. We had my dad's political career to think about.

The first thing that jumps out at us is how Mai presents her trauma. She doesn't explicitly express any pain or sadness, despite it being rather obvious to us. This is in stark contrast to the rest of the group. Ty Lee and Zuko are both very open about their negative emotions, hell, even Azula admits that Ursa's actions hurt her.

But Mai? Mai kneecaps her complaint. This can also be seen as an effect of her upbringing. No complaining, no making herself inconvenient for mom and dad.

We also see the theme of conditional love, an implied idea that Michi and Ukano would only give Mai affection or gifts if she acted the way they wanted her to. Now conditional love from people who are meant to raise you will fuck you up.

The comics also add that Michi actively told Mai scary stories about the Kemurimage to keep her in line. Now, telling kids stories about magical beings to get them to behave isn't anything new, but it appears to be so bad that Mai had nightmares over it. Also we're in a world where spirits actually exist, evil chidnapper spirits don't seem too far out the realm of possibility.

Also as someone who got raised by a heavily Catholic mother who made me believe I would burn in hell for an eternity if I even mildly displeased her, I do sympathise

Azula: Well, that's it, then. You have a controlling mother who had certain expectations, and if you strayed from them, you were shut down. That's why you're afraid to care about anything, and why you can't express yourself. Mai : You want me to express myself? [Stands up and yells.] Leave me alone! Zuko: I like it when you express yourself. [Approaching, attempting to put a hand on her shoulder.] Mai : Don't touch me! I'm still mad at you. Zuko: My life hasn't been that easy either, Mai. Mai: Whatever. That doesn't excuse the way you've been acting.

I love when Mai yells at Azula for frying to psychoanalyse her. Like Azula was right, but it understandably upset Mai, and it's a good thing she expressed that. It means she's growing.

I also do adore that Mai does not let Zuko get away with acting out, particularly towards her. I like that the writer's didn't just have Mai give Zuko a free pass because he had a shitty life and she actively called him out on his actions. It's probably my favourite part of their relationship. And Mai expressing so much anger and upset is a perfect crescendo to her little scene.

I don't know why but Mai confession scene just holds so much weight and emotion for me, I can't help but feel something whenever I watch it.

Also, side note, I find it an interesting detail that Azula's confession only came after the fire was extinguished. Perhaps it wasn't intentional but it kinda feels like its symbolising that the light "went out" for Azula (at least narrativewise) and that while Zuko, Ty Lee and Mai would be able to get out of their shitty situations and from under the Fire Nation's influence, she would not.

[thethiefandtheairbender]

me thinking "ah yes a ZK shipper who might be down for different interpretations and not falling back on old tired arguments and that relationships can be malleable" and then i scroll further and there's just mai / maiko hate and i don't know why i ever expect anything different, but i am unfortunately booboo the fool

[demaparbat-hp]

I’m sorry, but don’t you feel bad for your fav ship cuz’ like, a lotta Zutara fans are obnoxious and hate Aang and Mai for no reason. It just, kinda ruins your ship and makes it one of most hated ships in the fandom cuz’ of them. You’re the one of the few sane Zutara fans and I’m proud of you. Stay this way through your entire journey.

Oh! Thanks! I, uh, I'm glad you believe me sane 🤭

Honestly, there are terrible people in every fandom, but those are just a loud, small minority. Most of us are just here to share our love for these characters and their world.

The ZK fandom is, sadly, very well versed in ship wars and fandom hate and...well, we all know about it.

That being said—I don't let fandom wars or toxic behaviour from fans on any "side" dictate how I enjoy the og series or ZK.

People have vastly different takes on ATLA. Some may not like Aang as a character, or Mai, or Katara, or Zuko, or Sokka—and that's okay! We all have our own ideas and our own ways to interact with canon and the Fandom.

But things get out of hand when someone sends you death threats using anonymous asks, or calls you horrible slurs, simply because you enjoy something (I am talking through personal experience here).

I support discourse. I support metas and takes and headcanons. I support those who say "Well, I understand why you like this couple/character, and I respect that, but I don't like them because..."

And that's the thing that's sometimes missing—respect.

I know what my stance is regarding ZK, and Kataang, and Maiko, and this senseless hostility. And I will always defend it, but that doesn't mean baseless insults need to be part of my vocabulary.

I can't tell anyone how to engage with fandom—and I'm not trying to! These are my own personal views on this matter, and I hope everyone understands the intention and meaning behind them.

[firelxdykatara]

I too ship Zutara and think they should have been canon. Although for me it's important to know how such a rewrite would go down. I tried to think, and I'm lost.

After Mai betrayed Azula for him, will he just go "sorry, not interested"? He isn't obligated to date her because of this, but her redemption hinges on Zuko and I don't see it being satisfying if he ends up rejecting her after this.

I thought the solution would be to rewrite her arc in boiling rock to make her have a moral realization, but then the problem with Maiko is practically solved. Their relationship wasn't salvaged by her redemption because last time they talked, Mai still didn't understand what's wrong with the Fire Nation and only changed because she loved Zuko. So how do you make it both satisfying & logical?

With Kataang the problem is the Chakras. The problem with the original (in my opinion) is that after he opened his chakra, letting go of his attachment to Katara, he's still attached (forcing a kiss on eip). Should TCoD get rewritten so that Azula shoots him before he opens it? Then why wouldn't he just open it later? Maybe the chakra would be locked so he feels as though he doesn't need to overcome his attachment just yet. In that situation, how would his chakra even unlock? The stone thing felt like nonsense, so how would I do it?

So yeah I have no idea how to approach this. How would you? (Thanks)

I've been rotating this ask in the back of my head like a rotisserie chicken for a few days--it's interesting because I don't generally stop to think like, how would I write them out of these relationships, I either ignore the relationships completely (which isn't hard, they were barely footnotes in the cartoon) or play a little bit with jealous exes or something. Thinking about like, In A Perfect World where Bryke wasn't in charge of ATLA post-canon (because if zutara had been canon, you can be sure they would've made us regret it) is interesting, and I do have thoughts on how I'd handle their relationships in a rewrite.

(this got long, so the rest is beneath the cut)

Assuming you mostly want to keep canon intact, I think maiko would be the easiest to work around, given how little relevance their relationship has in canon. The problem with maiko as an endgame ship is that it was not set up that way--if it had been, it would not have begun entirely off-screen and their whole relationship would not have been a study in misery and utter inability to connect emotionally. His relationship with Mai was there to showcase just how much he had changed and how little he fit into the life he had been so sure he wanted more than anything since his banishment. It worked very well to highlight Zuko's growth--how that contrasted to Mai's lack of it and why she could not understand him even at his most open and vulnerable--and did not work nearly so well when she was shoved back with him in the epilogue, after he'd quite literally forgotten her existence (he never mentions her again after Boiling Rock, not even to say a word of mourning, considering he'd have every reason to believe she was killed for defying his sister).

I don't think you can fix this by giving Mai some moral realization, because there simply is no room for it. As @araeph says in the essay I linked:

As a character, Mai is very useful to the story during Zuko’s return, because she represents everything that Zuko gains by sticking by his father. A girl who cares about him; the ability to indulge her; the authority he has over others at the palace; we see it all in his interactions with Mai. But this makes Mai a tether to a life he has long outgrown. Her function is not to advance Zuko’s character development, but to obstruct it, which also unfortunately means that Mai gaining a full understanding of Zuko’s trials would be disadvantageous to the story. If she knew everything about him and still wanted him to stay, it would give Zuko more cause than he should have to remain in the Fire Nation, but if she knew and encouraged him to leave and join the Avatar, it would rob Zuko of the triumph of making this decision on his own. In other words, there are good narrative reasons for keeping Mai in the dark; it just doesn’t make their relationship any stronger.

The seeds of a genuine redemption arc (one that includes some sort of moral realization and change to her moral framework) for Mai would have to have been planted far earlier than five episodes from the end of the series, but doing so would have of necessity detracted from Zuko's own character arc and the realizations that he makes despite his attachment to Mai (or more specifically to their relationship, which I feel like he was clinging to more out of a sense of abject loneliness he couldn't shake rather than genuine feelings and emotional connection).

So, in my mind, since we're tackling this with an eye towards getting rid of maiko with the fewest ripples to the overall story anyway, the easiest way to do this would be make one slight change to the end of the Boiling Rock two-parter--have Ty Lee (who had always been the least gung-ho of the trio about bowing to Azula's whims and had to be textually threatened into joining her in the first place) save Zuko's life, and then have Mai (who showed the most genuine affection for Ty Lee anyway) save Ty Lee. I love Zuko more than I fear you always fell flat for me as some epic declaration of love, anyway, since a) Zuko is not around to hear it, and b) unlike Ty Lee, she never showed much fear of Azula to begin with, so it wasn't a very high bar to clear. It was a cool line that was entirely unearned, and I don't think it would be missed, there would be some cute mailee crumbs this way, and a throwaway line of getting them released from the prison after the war ended could wrap up their presence in the story pretty nicely.

Now, kataang is a little trickier, if only because the last leg of Aang's character arc is almost completely derailed by his refusal to let go of his possessive attachment to Katara, to the point where he never naturally reopens his chakras, he has to have the Rock of Destiny hit him in just the right place, and the deus ex lionturtle there to give him a way out of having to make a hard moral choice. (I've maintained for years that if you work the final act of your main character's overall arc in such a way that it could have been solved by one good session with a chiropractor, something got fucked along the way.)

The thing about Aang's chakras is that, narratively, his whole thing with Guru Pathik and leaving his training early to save his friends was basically his version of Luke running away from his training with Yoda on Degobah because of his Force vision, only to find out that his friends were in the process of rescuing themselves and then losing his hand because he hadn't completed the most crucial part of his training. What's missing, therefore, from the last act of Aang's character arc, is the return.

See, in Star Wars, Luke pretty explicitly makes the wrong choice when he chooses to prioritize saving his friends over attaining enlightenment and fully mastering the Force. It was the only choice he could have made, but it was still the wrong one--because, like Aang, his friends did not actually need him to save them, he actually almost makes it harder for them to get away by requiring them to save him because, like Aang, he loses a battle in a very critical way. This was a lesson he desperately needed to learn, and it is clear he has learned it by the time he makes it back to Degobah and witnesses the end of Yoda's life, his own enlightenment having already been reached.

But Aang never goes back to the Guru.

And the text refuses to allow us to sit with the fact that he made the wrong choice in prioritizing his attachment to Katara over his ability to master the Avatar State. He is actually narratively vindicated about it, because the plot bends itself into a pretzel so that he doesn't have to spend any time during the last book trying to reopen his chakras and regain access to the Avatar State, handed both in the final battle with no excess effort on his part, and handed the girl into the bargain. (The girl who never even wanted him, so far as we can tell from all the lack of cues she gave him that she actually returned his feelings.)

And I think this could have been solved with a few scattered scenes. Let Katara actually have some agency in her own romantic relationship (or lack thereof), insofar as noticing Aang's advances and clueing the audience in to how she actually feels. Let Aang struggle with the fact that he can't reach the Avatar State, that his mastery of the elements is in limbo because he can't access his full power, rather than ignoring all of this until the end of the show. If we're trying to keep the shape of the last season roughly the same, let Katara confront Aang about the invasion kiss.

This would have been the perfect time to establish that Katara actually does feel some type of way about Aang prior to the epilogue, and it could have saved us from the exceedingly cringey EIP kiss that Aang never apologized for. How it comes across now, of course, is that Katara basically pretends it never even happened, to the point where she doesn't even know what Aang is talking about during EIP until he reminds her--the death knell for any shot their relationship had at looking requited, because I can tell you, as someone who's been a teenage girl, if someone I had conflicted but burgeoning romantic feelings for had kissed me, I would not have completely forgotten about it only a few weeks later--and we never get any indication as to what she actually felt about the kiss (which was not mutual, despite what Aang's dialogue in the EIP scene implies) except for the fact that she looked away and frowned afterwards. (A change mandated by Bryke, who wanted to leave her feelings completely ambiguous; the original storyboards had her smiling to herself.)

So, with an eye towards wrapping up Aang's puppy love crush and establishing Katara's distinct lack of romantic feelings for him, have her talk to him about the kiss. A good frame of reference for this would be Meng's conversation with Aang in "The Fortuneteller", where she finally realizes that he doesn't like her in the same way she likes him. Katara and Aang's conversation about the invasion kiss could be a callback to this, with Aang having some important realizations--that just because Katara doesn't share his feelings doesn't mean she loves him any less, and just because he can't have her the way he wanted doesn't mean he has to love her any less, that she doesn't belong to him but that's ok, because she's still his family and they'll always have each other's backs. Which could have functioned well in helping him take another step towards unblocking his chakras. Going back to the Guru directly may not have worked, since by this point in the story we're hurtling towards the final confrontation and Sozin's Comet, but let Aang reflect on what the Guru told him with new understanding granted him by his experiences throughout the first half of the season.

To keep the stakes high and up the suspense, obviously, he shouldn't have fully unlocked his chakras and the AS before the final fight, but the seeds could be planted--little moments like a talk with Katara about the invasion kiss, maybe a little more empathy and understanding from him about why Katara needs closure in TSR, etc--and then, during the final fight, rather than hand him all the answers on a silver platter, have him almost lose. He still can't go full Avatar, he's out of time, he still doesn't know exactly what to do about Ozai given his own pacifism and desire to preserve that part of his culture--he tries to fight but he's pretty quickly overpowered. Idk how I would've animated this, and maybe it wouldn't have looked as cool for the final fight, but the true climax of the finale was the Zuko and Azula agni kai anyway, so it hardly matters--I'm picturing him doing the rock-shield thing and going into a brief meditative state, where he finally achieves the enlightenment necessary to unlock the AS on his own, no rock of chiropracty necessary. And at this point, I'd give Ozai a Disney Death, since leaving him alive causes more problems than it solves and it's not necessary for Aang to kill him for him to die--they're fighting on a mountain ffs--but if you don't want to change that part then him figuring out energy bending as part of becoming a fully realized Avatar would at least feel more earned than the lionturtle just handing it to him. (And that could've been foreshadowed better by seeding the idea for it earlier in the season.)

After all of that, particularly if you up the emotions during the agni kai and have Zuko and Katara kiss there (or something less explicitly romantic but still tender, like a brief forehead touch), it'd feel pretty natural to have a just friends ending for Aang and Katara. Maybe a brief, slightly awkward but ultimately amiable conversation if Zuko and Katara had a ~thing at their final fight, and then the final shot of the series could be the gaang all together, maybe zutara holding hands or Katara resting her head on his shoulder or something, but since they already kissed there wouldn't feel like a need to end the whole show on romance, something which I've always felt missed the point of the series.

And then, y'know, after that, the world's your oyster! This is how I'd do it if I were trying to keep the bulk of the final season intact. Of course, breaking it all down to its component pieces and rebuilding from the ground up is also an option, but that'd probably be a longer post lol.

[homuraakemis]

I keep seeing anti-Maiko people complain that Mai never had a redemption arc to learn about why the Fire Nation was bad, and that's why she shouldn't be with Zuko. And I think that fundamentally misunderstands what a secondary character is. Mai is not a main character. She is a secondary character. She is there to provide support to the narrative, she is there to fulfill her plot purposes and that's it. That doesn't mean she has no character development, but her character development is mostly related to her function in the narrative. In Mai's case, her main functions in the narrative are being Zuko's love interest, and being a key piece in Azula's downfall. Her character development is related to that: we have a girl who is closed off and suppresses her emotions who gradually starts to open up a little through her relationship with Zuko. We also have her feeling like she's always trapped by fear and by others expectations (by her parents and by Azula), and because of her relationship with Zuko, she is able to finally stand up to Azula. That's her character arc. That's what's relevant to her function in the story. Learning about how the Fire Nation is bad is not relevant to her main plot purposes in the story. There's no reason why it can't happen offscreen after the war, with Zuko teaching her about all the things he saw and learned about the Fire Nation during his travels. She is not a main character, the show doesn't need to focus on every single thing about her character. In case people forget, we don't get a "redemption arc" for Ty Lee either, because this is not important, neither Mai or Ty Lee are meant to be the focus of the narrative, we don't need to see them "learning that the Fire Nation is bad".

Another thing that people don't understand is that not every character has to be a copy of Zuko. People act like the only acceptable way for Mai to learn about the wrongs of the Fire Nation is by having a redemption arc like Zuko, but that's not really the case. It's not even feasible: Mai didn't go through the same experiences as Zuko, she wasn't forced to live as a commoner amongst the Earth Kingdom peasants, she wasn't forced to flee as a refugee, so she never really had the opportunity to speak to these people and see their plight the same way Zuko had. Of course Zuko is the one who gets the redemption arc, because he is the main character for which this arc actually matters to the story, but also because the circumstances of his story allow him to have this arc, while the circumstances of Mai's story don't. But that in no way means she is irredeemable or that she can't learn, it just means she will learn about the Fire Nation in a different way than Zuko did, probably through Zuko himself telling her about his experiences and the things he saw. And there's nothing wrong with that! Mai is not a main character, she doesn't need to have some epic redemption journey. She was a Fire Nation noble, just like Zuko, she was taught the same kind of propaganda that Zuko was, so of course she's going to believe in it and believe that Zuko is betraying his country when he tells her he joined the Avatar. But Mai is also not some cruel person, and she's also not a Fire Nation fanatic. If after the show Zuko told her about all the things he saw, she would listen. And in fact, the evidence we have is that she did listen to Zuko and she did learn about the Fire Nation: in the comics she works with Zuko against the New Ozai Society even after they break up. And if you don't want to use the comics as evidence, we have the epilogue of the show as evidence, in which Mai is shown to be on good terms with Team Avatar and playing Pai Sho with Suki. We don't need to see the details of how Mai learned about the Fire Nation being bad (she is not a main character, it's not relevant to the main story), we know that she did learn, we can fill in the blanks with our imagination.

Secondary characters not receiving a huge narrative focus and character development about every single aspect of their characters is not "bad writing". Bad writing would be if the show focused on every detail of every secondary character, because that would be losing narrative focus. Just because certain people don't like Mai with Zuko and use this as an excuse to say why the ship is bad, it doesn't mean that Mai not having a redemption arc is "bad writing".

Finally, this isn't a reason for her not to be with Zuko. Some people argue that Zuko would never want to be with Mai after his redemption because of her still believing that the Fire Nation was in the right, but people forget that if there's one person who knows what is like to have been brainwashed since childhood with propaganda about the Fire Nation, that person is Zuko. And Zuko was way more enthusiastic about the Fire Nation being right and the Fire Nation winning the war than Mai ever was. Why would he hold it against her that she believed in Fire Nation propaganda, when he himself knows what is like to believe in said propaganda? The most likely thing to happen is that he would want to teach her about everything he learned about the Fire Nation, he wouldn't break up with her just because she didn't magically unlearn an entire life of indoctrination.

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Abuse is not a carte blanche for being a toxic romantic partner

My usual disclaimer for fandoms in which I am merely vibing in and have little in-depth knowledge of

Let me use the example of Percabeth discourse. In the comments section or reblogs of anti Percabeth posts, you will often see the usual Annabeth or Percabeth defender (sometimes the author crosstags so the defense is SOMETIMES warranted) saying that Annabeth had an abusive childhood, no real adult male figures and abandonment issues etc so it's no surprise that she lashes out at Percy and others when she feels threatened.

That's cool. Characters can be flawed and it's important to recognize a character's backstory. I love me some good flawed characters.

However, I am always amazed when these users conclude by saying that Annabeth's actions are understandable, we can't expect her to act differently, so the ship is fine.

How? Why?

Since when does abuse allow you a free pass to treat others poorly?

Let me use Maiko from ATLA. I love Zuko but how he acted in The Beach episode was unacceptable, though understandable. Zuko had an abusive childhood and is going through severe emotional turmoil - so if he rages at Mai and threatens others with violence is that ok?

If a child was sexually abused, does that give them free rein to go on to rape others as an adult?

What these Percabeth shippers should be saying is that Annabeth's actions are understandable but not excusable and she needs to grow out of these mindsets in order for this ship to be healthy. Again, I don't have full context but the nature of the discourse is very disturbing and it's sickening how unhealthy behaviour in romantic relationships (especially by female characters) is swept under the rug because they have a sad backstory.

If Annabeth is such a horrible abuse victim, she needs therapy, not romance. Percy shouldn't have to put up with her nonsense in the meantime. Actually, he should probably be getting therapy himself to sort out all his issues.

[sokkastyles]

thanks for answering me,

But what do you mean by unhealthy relationship? do you mean Maiko as was in the canon series (where Mai didn't care about Zuko's feelings and in the final episode it seemed like she was the one dominating the relationship) or do you mean how the relationship will be treated in the comic? , since from what I saw in the couple of panels where Mai and Zuko interacted, not only does Mai have to reluctantly agree to do something just because Zuko asked her but I can see that that would be her future life, becoming his submissive girlfriend or wife and ending up doing anything just to please her partner without complaining.

I also have to admit that I'm a little impressed with Zuko's behavior and attitude in the new comic, I've never seen Zuko smile so much either in a happy or playful way neither in the animated series nor in the previous comics, what's more the attitude he showed with Mai, was the type "the rich boy who is overconfident and is used to everyone saying yes to him, looks for the poor or antisocial girl so that she will do him a favor and will not accept no for an answer", which is weird because Zuko has never had that kind of relaxed attitude before, but I think they decided to go for that characterization for show us who is now in control and who is no longer in control

Yeah, I think that's a huge reach because as you say, Mai and Zuko have never had that dynamic and it doesn't fit their characterizations at all. I also don't think the comics are trying to show "who is in control" because Mai does not just do what Zuko says without complaint. She complains a lot, and then decides to just ditch the lesson and take the kids outside. Nor does Zuko seem particularly in control. He talks about reforming the school and how he's sure the obviously evil headmaster will teach his new curriculum, and she, unsurprisingly, doesn't. Just because he's smiling doesn't mean he's in control. He seems more incompetent than anything, and the comic was giving me King Kuei vibes. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing Zuko smile, but the character we know should be worried about what is going to happen to Kiyi or even Mai going in to that school, especially considering all of Zuko's hangups.

Speaking of which, couldn't we get some info about Zuko's schooling, since it's never been talked about in canon? I've always assumed he had private tutors, which makes even less sense why he would want Kiyi to go to that school.

Anyway, the main reason Mai accepts the job isn't to show that Zuko is in control now, it's because there wouldn't be a plot otherwise. Which is always how the comics have been written.

And by unhealthy relationship, I mean one where neither partner seems to understand each other or even like each other. Relationship dynamics aren't just about who is "dominating," and you can have a healthy relationship with one partner being more dominant than the other. The problem was never Mai being more dominant than Zuko, it's that she doesn't seem to have much respect for him (mostly because the narrative doesn't have much respect for her, even in a female-led comic where her emotions are dismissed as 'an act'), and that dynamic can continue when he's given her something to do because then it gives her something to complain about.

[bluespiritshonour]

I understand being a Mai fan and not shipping Maiko... But how can one be a Zuko fan and not ship Maiko? Clearly you don't want him being happy 😔

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

I really appreciate your blog! It helps me articulate a lot of thoughts I have about Zutara.

I finished watching ATLA for the first time this year, as an adult. When I finished, I thought the canon romances were cute enough. I also thought it was pretty clear that Zuko and Aang's relationship (platonic or romantic) was the centre of the show.

Imagine my surprise when I went to A03 and found that the most popular ships were ZUKKA and ZUTARA. It had never even crossed my mind since the characters barely interacted. Intrigued, I started reading fics for both to see what the fuss was about.

I read Zukka, and though both characters seemed OOC to me, it was a fun dynamic and I could understand why people liked it. Ofc Mai and Suki were absent, but most fics I saw described them as having amicable breakups and living a great life. In a lot of fics, Mai and Zuko were still super close, and Sokka and Suki were best friends despite the break-up.

But Zutara. First fic I read? Aang bashing. 2nd? Katara cheating on Aang. 3rd? Katara talking about how unappreciated she felt as the "Mother" of the group who had to do the emotional labour. 4th? Katara being kept locked up against her will as a bartering chip. It just went on and on.

I genuinely don't care what people ship, or what they fantasise about. Shipping is just wish fulfillment after all, it's wanting 2 pretty dolls to kiss.

Zutara as a popular fanon ship even makes sense, because they had a genuinely compelling dynamic! But the fics I read made me so uncomfortable. They felt vicious, like totally against the themes of friendship, balance, and forgiveness in the show.

It's a very subjective opinion, but the Zukka and Zutara fics felt totally different to me. Zukka felt lighthearted, like "wouldn't it be fun to make these 2 cute boys kiss". Whereas Zutara felt like the author was trying to PROVE Zutara should be canon, that their ship was better and deeper and more sophisticated than anyone else's.

Then I read some Zutara metas, and a lot of the fics made sense to me. They seemed so vindictive against Aang and Mai, so bitter because they were "robbed". No wonder it translated into fics.

Reading those metas actually made me outraged. So despite not even really shipping Kataang or Maiko at the beginning, now I have began to appreciate them both!

Especially Kataang, because I love Katara and Aang as characters and it just seems so crazy to me that she'd even CONSIDER Zuko, the racist imperialist prince that chased her for 2 seasons. Even if Kataang broke up for whatever reason, Katara would rather be single than ever date Zuko.

So, thanks for the blog. You really highlight everything I dislike about Zutara.

If I got a dollar each time someone told me that they used to not mind Zutara but grew to dislike it and appreciate the canons ships more after seeing how unhinged the fandom is, I'd have enough money to buy the rights to the franchise.

[bridgerteon]

Everywhere I see, there's always a ship pairing battle between Kataang vs Zutara vs Zukka. But what I have seen so far in both Tumblr and Twitter (or X 😒):

Kataang (Katara/Aang) shippers are the worst bullies you would ever see. With their childish excuses and constant harassment. There's even worse things from them that could be triggering for some people. I understand it's canon (I know man, it's everywhere 🙄), but don't boast it. On this day and age, the tropes for Kataang would be unacceptable, for example, lack of consent or lack of meaningful conversations between two people (both from Aang, sorry kid). In contrast, I like their artworks; it's fun and cheerful. In the past, I had seen Kataang shippers who were neutral to other ships, but that's rare these days.

Zutara (Katara/Zuko) shippers are humble or passionate (depends on the person), supportive and have the best resilience than all the ships. I've seen some people writing University-style essays about why Zutara is better, with actual evidence and quotes from the show, that would make literature professors proud. Also, I love witnessing how they defend or provide comfort whenever someone is bullied or harassed. Additionally, they create beautiful artworks. Unfortunately, I hear a few Zutara shippers bullying others, but I've not witnessed it so far. I would be disappointed and angry if I do see it.

Zukka (Sokka/Zuko) shippers are chill. I love their quiet emergence and possibly overtaking both ships, like a renaissance. They don't argue or bully, rather just stand back as wallflowers; I would like to be with them in that situation as well. Besides, Zukka is Zutara, but with more man-to-man tropes. I like their artworks - it's comedic like a rom-com style and it does make me chuckle - and their neutrality to anything. Fortunately no homophobic comments from other ships against them, but I'll be very pissed if someone would do that.

[I acknowledge there's also Taang (Toph/Aang), Sukka (Suki/Sokka) and Jinko (Jin/Zuko), but I always see positive contributions to all of them, with no negativity. So I don't mention them. There's also Maiko (Mai/Zuko)... but that's another story to tell.]

But come on, let people enjoy their favourite ships or even just the show! I'm not against any ship pairing as everyone has their own favourite thing and all of us are unique. I've seen way worse in Bridgerton shipping wars between Kanthony (Kate/Anthony) and Polin (Penelope/Colin) on Twitter, but I like both ships!

[theomnicode]

One punch man and flirting with romance

Romance, in my opm? More likely than you think.

There are many instances in one punch man where the author and the mangaka specifically tip their toes into showcases of implicit romance than explicit, but it is there and I'd like to jump into the romantic cruise ship and put down some of the cases where romance has been implied.

Starting with number one, Fubuki and Psykos implied to be kissing under a tree as teenagers where Fubuki seals off Psykos' powers with an implied kiss, where Psykos is also seen blushing right after. Rest of their interactions also ooze romantic overtones.

Number two is cd audio drama, Saitama and the mysterious heroine, where Saitama and Genos go see a movie and Saitama starts talking about relationships after seeing Suiryu flirt with a woman, then goes on tangent about girlfriends and such.

Saitama: That’s not the point... I have the feeling that things like a heart to heart interaction, sharing an umbrella, warmth, are all things broken away in my life. Other people can have things like big events and circumstances happening, romances and such bringing happiness in their daily lives. I have the feeling something broke and that sweet-like fluffy, nice stuff just fell right off from me. That's what I meant.

Saitama: Genos, look, have you ever seen a hero anime without a love interest in it? Genos: I don't remember watching a lot of anime in the past.. Why do you ask? Saitama: Well, we're heroes, right? We're working and living as such. And yet, why are we indifferent towards things like love interests or girlfriends? In some way it seems obvious and logical, but is it really ok? Are you ok with reality being so much harder than fiction?

It is obvious that Saitama would still be interested in romance, as he seems to be a romantic at heart, yet after becoming so strong he struggles with his emotions, his apathy.

Saitama also reads romantic shoujo manga on his spare time, as seen on season 2 OVA.

Number three is fairly recent addition where it is implied that Genos interest in Saitama as a disciple may or may not be entirely platonic. 3 different people (Zombieman, Flashy flash and Amai-mask) take note of Genos growing interest in Saitama. Genos has also been noted very much be interested in his master's physical appeal in audio cd dramas and below excerpt.

Genos for a long time, has been a prime example of a potential fool in love, but it is still handled in implicit rather than explicit manner. Shoujo sparkles and all that included.

Number four is a most recent addition of Blast and his partner, possibly holding hands under the panel. Blast's partner is specifically referred to as "partner" and not a collaborator by Sitch, giving his partner some more importance in the scene than rest of Blast's teammates. This one may be reaching, but we'll be seeing in future arcs how correct that assumption is.

Number five, Saitama and makeover audio drama where Genos has given Saitama's attack a long name.

Saitama: (Serious voice) Super shining and lightning, that’s right, this next punch will overwhelm you like a gust of northern urban wind deep in December, this illusionary, fantastical, understanding punch from the heart, starting from hyper dreaming attack the final, a never-ending eternal forever endless sentimental with a high sense aggregation of full throttle, godless, loneliness, can’t stop falling in love and as soon as fighting…

Number six, monsters named Maiko plasma and Electric catfish man appear to be a married couple. Maiko plasma refers to Catfish man as "darling" in multiple occasions, so they appear to be involved.

Number 7, where Tatsumaki thinks that Saitama is attracted to her because he's gripping her hand.

Last but not least, number 8, romantic alternate universe comedy part between Fubuki and Saitama in high school audio drama, where Fubuki thinks Saitama wanted to confess to her.

OPM may not yet have any really explicit romance, but implicit...there is a boatload. ONE does not leave fans cold when it comes to romantic undertones. :D

[empressofthesunslittlecorner]

Let's talk about Zutara

WARNING NOT KATAANG AND MAIKO FRIENDLY

CONTINUE WITH PRECAUTION

I thought I should finally use this second blog of mine for the reason I made it.

To scream into the void and find mutals.

So let's talk about one Ship which people to this day fight over.

The fanon ship (at it pains me to write this) made out of Zuko and Katara from Avatar the Last Airbender aka. Zutara.

I read a lot of analyses, arguments and so on about this ship.

It probably all has been said about Zutara, but since I'm writing an AangXOC story which will include Zutara, I felt like I should give my stance on it.

Back when Avatar first aired in the country I lived in the time I was like 11-12 years old.

I had an instant crush on Aang since he was so funny, kind and gentle.

I never saw Aang's crush on Katara as a problem, because it always seemed to me, till season 3, that Katara was just motherly to Aang.

Giving a friend a cheek kiss in thanks doesn't automatically mean that you like-like them.

At this time I only really shipped Sokka and Yue and cried my eyes out how it ended.

And then the famous scene from book 2 in the crystal catacombs under Ba Sing Se happened.

Short recap, in that season Zuko goes through a lot of chances and I root for, wishing him the best.

Now back to the scene, I said.

The scene turned me into a Zutara shipper in one instant.

Zuko and Katara opening up to each other, sharing their traumas and feelings about the Fire Nation, Katara offering to heal his scare...it was poetic cinema.

I was shivering all over and was like kiss, kiss, kiss!

Let's not forget that before this scene I didn't even see them as a potential couple...but this scene, this beautiful moment they shared with each other, opened my eyes.

I was like, yeah this is it, this is something one should want from a partner. Mutual understanding.

Then Zuko decided to betray Katara for a chance to go home and I cried right there with our favourite waterbender.

I felt also betrayed.

The scene they shared made me feel things, which I experienced as a young girl for the first time, I felt the connection between Zuko and Katara like it was my own.

I was Katara at this moment and couldn't believe that the boy who opened up to me, who understood what it was like to have their mother taken away from the Fire Nation, who said that he wanted to change, that he turned his back on me.

Didn't I/Katara mean nothing to him?

Didn't he feel how special our/their moment was?

I was devasted.

When Zuko then joined the Gaang in the middle of season 3 I could understand Katara's anger towards him.

Katara and I trusted him first and he betrayed our trust.

We had a right to be angry.

As the Southern Raiders came on, as I saw how flawlessly they worked as a team, I felt my own heart heal.

I swerve to this day, that I thought they would kiss at the end of the episode, but we got a hug.

However, this hug, made me feel all giddy and mushy inside.

I felt it was something special.

Maybe even more than a kiss.

It was a huge of forgiveness and the start of a new bond.

And then the last episode comes on.

Zuko sacrificed himself to save Katara from Azula lighting, she healed him then...I thought, yes this is it, now comes the kiss...but nothing.

Then suddenly Zuko is back together with Mai and I was like WTF?!

And Aang and Katara share this really intense kiss at the end.

I was literally like:

It came out of nowhere for me.

That Aang wasn't over his crush on Katara we all know, but when did Katara decide she liked Aang?

When did this realisation happen, when in the Ember Island Player, which was like a few days before Sozin's Comet Katara made clear that she didn't want to have a romance or get kissed by Aang, which he didn't respect.

Did he ever actually apologise for the unwanted kiss? I don't think so.

Remember I had a crush on Aang, but through the seasons I became a Zutara Shipper and literally felt all their moments like they were my own.

I was Katara and Aang wasn't on my radar anymore.

I really doubted my interpretation skill, did all these lovely, mushy, heartful moments have been really romantic or did I project?

I felt like Zuko and Katara had broken up with me.

Yeah, so much inpact had their "friendly" moments at me!

To this day, the hug Katara and Zuko shared on the Southern Raiders is one of the most lovely moments of any of my ships.

Not even kissing made me feel, what this hug made me feel.

Think about how powerful this is!

If Zutara had kissed, I would have probably passed out or cried like a baby in happiness.

I don't know and I will never know since it's a fanon ship.

Uurgh.

Anyway, years passed and as I mention before I read a lot of analysis and so on.

What shocked me most was that Byrke originally planned to have Zuko and Katara together but then changed their minds.

It did reassure me, how I wasn't imagining things between them, however reading then how the Souther Raider Episode changed a lot of times because Bryke found it too shippy, tells you a lot.

They wanted to make Kataang canon and better, than the natural flow Zutara had going on.

I want to repeat again, a HUG was MORE ROMANTIC and INTENSE than the crappy kiss Kataang shared.

Like what?!

How is this possible?

Well, yeah, if you don't force things and actually make people interact in a wholesome way it can be.

Zuko and Katara felt never forced because they just clicked. They were different, but the same in many things, that it was so natural to understand the other.

Aang and Katara felt always more like a mother-and-son duo, than real lovers.

And Maiko was kinda lame too.

Sorry.

I have this theory they just wanted to pair Zuko with a Fire Nation girl and be done with it.

I don't know why they chose Mai when it could have been worked with Ty Lee too, if it was only to pair Zuko with someone who doesn't understand him or doesn't want to try.

Excuse me, maybe Ty Lee would have been better since she seemed to care for her friends, in contrast to Mai who just tried her hardest to be goth and hate everything.

Sorry.

What I'm trying to say with this rant?

I think, as someone who had liked Aang and then felt more connected to Zuko and Katara, I can clearly say that if Katara had been a real girl and not a fictional character controlled by men, she would be together with Zuko.

Why would I/Katara choose someone who I need to mother, who is younger than me, who can't relate to me, if there is an older handsome boy who is kinda dorky and awkward and tries his best, understands my feelings and helps me to parent the Gaang?

Yeah, no, Katara would have smooched Zuko if she had been a real girl.

Now, who of you who knows me, can say, but Empress some of your OCs are older than their canon partner, how can you say that Kataang can't work if you do this in your stories?!

I want to make clear I don't have general a problem if the girl is older than the guy or taller.

It's just that their supposed age gap is when they are together makes it creepy.

Look at an example.

My parents have a three-year age gap.

Nothing much.

They are both in their 60, mid 60, so it's not weird.

They are in the same mature stage in life and understand the struggles of the other.

Now think if my parents meet at 12 and 15.

My dad is the older one.

Are you going to say with a straight face that it wouldn't have been creepy if my parents started to date at this age?

What does a teenager want with a pre-puperty child?

Also, they live in completely different worlds, how can they relate to each other?

The same goes for Katara and Aang, what does a 14-year-old want from a 12-year-old?

I bet if it was the other way around, we would all give Aang shit for preying on a 12-year-old girl.

The gender shouldn't decide if we find a couple creepy or not, even if it's so sadly.

What I want to say, Kataang would have worked better if let's say season 3 ended with no pairing, just all being friends and happy and then in the comics when they age, when Katara is 22 and Aang is 20 they got together.

They would have matured, been on the same level, probably dated other people and had experience.

It would have been okay.

Even if I still think Zutara is superior in anything.

Anyway, I hope I could explain myself and no hate to the canon ships and their shippers.

Ship and let ship.

I just wanted to explain my reason why I will be always a Zutara Shipper and don't reconsider the ending of Avatar as the end and Legend of Korra.

I will forever be Team-Season-Four-Where-Aang-Finds-Hiding-Airbenders-And-Falls-in-Love-With-A-Airbender Girl-His-Age-And-Zuko-And-Katara-Marry-Eachother-And-Katara-Becomes-The-Most-Beloved-And-Badass-Fire Lady-In-History!

And they find also Zuko mom ^^

So for now this is it for me.

If you want my take on an Aang and OC story, where Zutara will be canon, go to my other Tumblr profile empressofthesunwriter and read Yin and Yang.

Here is the link to the Index

I wish you all a nice day/night!

Till next time!

[ghanjrho]

A:TLA; how it should have ended.

Recently, I've been on a deep dive into the A:tLA fandom, specifically the Zutara sphere. And that means I've found a lot of long-form meta on the show, it's ending, LoK, script final drafts, you name it. That's all gone in the brain blender, and here's what came out the other side.

Sozin's Comet honestly doesn't change that much; only two real differences.

The magic rock is gone. Instead, we get a flashback to Guru Pathik, and Aang realizes that he has to let go of his attachment to Katara.

The Maiko/Kataang victory laps in the last 5 minutes are gone. Mai and Zuko get a scene where they wish each other well, but acknowledge that they're over. Katara and Aang have a nice moment where they choose friendship. There's love there, but it's Philia, not Eros.

@burst-of-iridescent has a delightful essay series on Zutara, and the part that sticks in my head is that in the run-up to the finale, Aang and Katara are at their least unified. To wit:

In "The Southern Raiders" Aang is preachy, condescending, and more than a little hypocritical about Katara's plan to take vengeance for her mother. The episode ends with Katara explicitly rejecting Aang's belief that Yon Rha was forgiven.

In "The Ember Island Players" Aang is distraught at the idea that EIP!Katara's statements, namely that Aang is like her brother and she's attracted to Zuko, are true. When he questions Real!Katara about this, he responds to her statement that she's confused about her feelings by kissing her. The kiss is not returned. Again, no resolution is had.

Finally, in "Sozin's Comet Part 1" Katara is part of the chorus condemning Aang for refusing to even consider killing Ozai, no matter how many people are at stake. He runs off from the group, and from there disappears into the Spirit World to get Lion-Turtled. Yet again, no resolution, and the two don't reunite until the tea shop.

Now speaking of the Lion Turtles, I'm actually not opposed to them. Yes, they come out of nowhere to deliver an 11th Hour Superpower that handily spares Aang from having to actually make a choice he disagrees with, but at the end of the day it is a kid's show. Nickelodeon was never going to approve a script where Aang killed Ozai. Throw in a little bit of foreshadowing, and I'm good. It's worth noting here that the story of Avatar Wan was supposed to be covered in A:tLA, which would handily cover that requirement.

Now, for the post-canon. We'll start with Fire.

Zuko is NOT left alone in the Fire Nation. Similarly, Iroh does NOT fuck off back to Ba Sing Se.

Toph and Suki stick around. Suki in her canon role as commander of Zuko's Kyoshi Warrior bodyguard, while Toph and Mai use Toph's lie-detection and Mai's insider knowledge to purge threats to the new peace.

Toph eventually goes back to the Earth Kingdom to start a metalbending academy, but first she needs to make sure that her Sparky lives to be the grumpy old man he was born to be.

While Iroh is correct that for political and diplomatic reasons Zuko needs to be Fire Lord, he also bows to the reality that Zuko is plain and simply not ready to be the Fire Lord.

Zuko went from 4th in line to 1st in line basically overnight, and the 5-ish years he spent as Crown Prince were clearly not spent preparing him to succeed Ozai.

So a teenager with a fairly surface-level understanding of "how to monarch" has to self-Reconstruction the Fire Nation, while paying reparations, without having been militarily conquered.

This is how idealists get assassinated. New Plan!

Zuko is crowned Fire Lord. Iroh is his Prince Regent. It's very clear to all involved that Zuko is the one charting the course forward for the Fire Nation, while Iroh is there to convert intent to action, while teaching Zuko how it's done.

It doesn't hurt that Iroh is one of the Fire Nation's most successful military commanders, so the civil war route is a lot riskier for anyone to attempt.

Next, Sokka

Sokka honestly has a pretty good arc in the post-canon. Nothing I really feel the need to correct.

Eventually, Suki is able to hand off her duties in the Fire Nation to someone else and goes home to Kyoshi Island

It’s still home, but it isn’t the same. Or rather, she isn’t the same.

She never leaves the island behind, but it’s usually a stop on the journey from Wolf Cove to Republic City.

Then, Aang

Aang divides his time between Avatar duties and Last Airbender duties.

Avatar duties involve a lot of sitting in on meetings and reminding people that the ultimate goal is peace.

Last Airbender duties involve a lot of teaching Air Acolytes everything he remembers from his childhood. He gets lucky here, though.

The Airbender Genocide wasn't complete. More than a few Air Nomads escaped the Genocide, and hid themselves away. Some in small villages built in remote mountain valleys, others blended into Earth Kingdom settlements.

Plenty of quarter- or eighth-Air Nomad kids running around with airbending potential they never had the knowledge to develop. Think very early Book 1 Katara here.

The result is that a resurgent Air Nation is being formed, with a culture woven from the threads that survived through relics, the refugees, and Aang himself.

Airbenders are still rare, and it's over a decade before another airbender earns their mastery, but it's not his son and his grandkids when Korra comes around.

Finally, Katara

Katara spends a lot of time traveling. She spends time in the South Pole, helping to rebuild and learning Southern Style Waterbending from the released waterbenders. She also travels the Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom, doing what she can to solve problems.

There are a lot of problems to solve.

Her travels in the Fire Nation are particularly fruitful; word of the Last Agni Kai has spread, so she is known to be the one that the Fire Lord sacrificed himself for, and who healed his wound.

She and Zuko stay in contact, allowing themselves to have a slow-burn courtship.

After a couple of years she moves to Caldera City and starts getting down to seriously courting Zuko, preparing herself for Fire Ladydom.

The year before Iroh is set to retire as Regent, she and Zuko start thinking about the wedding.

There are a lot of potential traditions to uphold, even just between the Southern Water Tribe and the Fire Nation

This goes double for the daughter of the head chieftain of the Southern Water Tribe, and the Fire Lord himself.

They decide to have fun with it and do everything.

Aang presides over a private ceremony, family/close friends only, that is really just a mutual declaration of love and friendship.

Then come the Southern Water traditions. It's the full gamut, with ice-dodging, sacred hunts and more. In the end, Zuko is an honorary member of the Southern Water Tribe, and he and Katara are wed (again).

There's a diplomatic tour through the Earth Kingdom, stopping at Kyoshi, Gaoling, Omashu, Ba Sing Se, the Foggy Swamp the former Fire Colonies, and ending at the Northern Water Tribe. The language used artfully slides over whether the couple is newly married or about to be married, but overall it works well for the Fire Nation's reputation abroad.

The final act is in the Fire Nation. A full Royal Wedding, a grand affair of state, held at high noon on the day of the summer solstice. When all is said and done, Zuko and Katara now rule alone as Fire Lord and Fire Lady.

Alright, I have more, but I'm tired. Tune in next time for the Fire Nation (extended) Royal Family! featuring Steambabies (Found here)

[akiizayoi4869]

(Mini rant since I know you also love Aang) I’m sorry but takes by that one Zutara account the-badger-mole is genuinely so bad, I’m dead serious. 😭They constantly try to twist Aang and make it look like Zuko is the second coming of Christ while Aang is the love child of Satan. It’s hilarious- like…I love Zuzu but to say HE was more altruistic than Aang in season 1 is hilarious. I saw a post saying that and my mind deadass melted. 💀Idm Zutara I think it’s okay but I don’t understand demonizing Mai or Aang, both are good characters and all have their own flaws…

Not to mention Idk they just seem sort of condescending to me if that makes sense? Like I just get a bad vibe from TBM 😭sorry for long ask but I just wanted to know your thoughts on their…interesting takes lol

Oh I blocked them back when I first joined the fandom on this hellsite🤣. A mutual of mine warned me about them, Sokkastyles, and a few other big names over in Zutara land. Unfortunately though I do see their takes from time to time since I follow Kataang shippers/ Maiko shippers and vice versa, and they sometimes make or reblog a post about the badger mole, debunking whatever wild claim they made (which is always amusing to see). The way how they try and paint Zuko as this saint who could do no wrong, including how he was back in book 1 is, like you said, hilarious. Not only does that just completely undermine his redemption arc, something that Zuko fans claim to love and swear up and down is the greatest redemption arc in TV history (spoiler alert: it's not) the way how they demonize Aang and try to say that he was a creepy possessive rapist just so that they can uplift Zutara as being this perfect ship is ridiculous. I seriously think that they just watched a completely different show from the rest of us lmao. And same, I also like Zutara. I don't have any issues with the ship whatsoever, but the vast majority of the shippers just get on my last nerves with their horrible takes😭. Not to mention that they act as if they are the only ones who understands Zuko and Katara, when really all they understand is two oc's who are committing identity fraud. Not liking Maiko or Kataang is fine, but you don't have to make up completely batshit reasons to justify hating them.

You're right, they do have a condescending attitude. They're on this high horse because they see shipping Zutara as being superior and smarter than anyone else in the fandom, which is honestly pretty pathetic. Imagine feeling that way because you ship a non canon couple. Get a life and get over yourself.

[dreamchasernina]

as someone who first entered atla tumblr in 2020s i've seen aang hate in the katara tags, the atla tags, this isn't the first time sokka styles went onto a properly tagged post, i guess im good at holding grudges cause i doubt they remember but still remember my pro mai/maiko post i made as i got tired of all the hate to her only for them just to tell me i support real life abuse because i pointed out zukos toxic behavior /throwing a man , I also but don't care if people ship maiko ... .

regarding your post, They were just looking for trouble anyone can clearly see that. these bnf are why people like me ended up switching from zutara to the kataang fandom.

for future tagging help antizutara wont show up in the zutara tag like anti zutara does, i dont know why it has to be like that but tumblr is wonky

I don’t get this need to attack anyone who doesn’t agree with their opinion? Here I am posting in my own blog about my fave ship and I get attacked? For what?

And then people in my asks say, how did you expect not to get attacked? Well I don’t know, I thought people here behaved like adults? But I guess I was wrong? And you’re defending their actions? For what? A dumb ship?

So I like my ship and you like yours, and I want to defend mine from common stupid takes without engaging with anyone in particular, why should I be attacked? Like I’d get it if I was posting criticism on ZK or their shippers but I’m not!

I’m sorry you got attacked for expressing your opinion. I truly don’t understand how people like that think. What’s the point of all this hate?

Thanks for the tip, but again, I didn’t tag any of my posts as anti Zutara anyway. I just don’t. The posts are pro Kataang, not anti Zutara. So the posts didn’t show up in Zutara tag, cause I never even mentioned them. My guess is they’re just always in the anti Kataang tag and that’s how they find my posts. Cause even if I tag Kataang it’ll show up on anti Kataang. And what am I supposed to do? Not tag Kataang?

This is all so unnecessary. Just get a life people, stop attacking anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

[btvs3x21]

out of curiosity, what would it mean to you for fiction to replicate the maizula dynamic? like what features are most salient?

the heart of their relationship i think is replicable to an extent in that it's this sort of rotted love where you have known each other so long and so well that you couldn't not love each other but you have known each other so long and so well that you couldn't not hate each other as well. so that integral piece is absolutely something we can find in other relationship dynamics. like the rich girl/weird friend dynamic absolutely exists.

the sibling love triangle aspect with maiko's existence is also a hugely important and compelling aspect of maizula! this is techniaclly replicable in theory in terms of you can absolutely do love triangles where two members are related, but also it's so hard to duplicate the maizula-maiko triangle because mai is supposed to love zuko, and you can interpret her as actually loving him, and he feels like he's supposed to love her too, but they don't work fundamentally because he doesn't want to understand the worst parts of her, doesn't even want to admit that they exist, and she is so horribly caught up in azula who makes her feel so alive by acknowledging and knowing and seeing all these parts of her and bringing them out even more that she could say she chooses zuko because it's the right thing to do in terms of both heteronormativity and what choosing zuko represents, but i don't think realistically mai can actually turn away from azula and everything she's ever known and hated and loved and wanted to leave her alone and not known how to live without. not without regrets.

i think it's also so hard to replicate the way that their individual characters are and come together in the ship as a whole. like azula being a prodigious princess with such an insane relationship with gender and having such a tragic domestic origin and mai being a noblegirl who is so sullen and depressed and dead inside and has such an awful domestic life as well and who has to obey azula's orders but also absolutely doesn't do that because the power dynamic of their relationship is so complex by complete accident that while azula is higher ranking than mai socially and financially and in the military sense, mai absolutely has more power on an interpersonal level. that's something that you see a lot in lesser degrees in media with toxic female friendships sure, but never to the extent that one of the parties can literally have the other executed if she wants to, but she chooses not to do so even when she imprisons her former friend.

i wrote a mini essay on this here, but the way in which they play with the rich girl/weird friend dynamic is also INSANE on a level i have yet to see anyone else touch really except maybe rhaenicent.

speaking of other posts i've made abt their dynamic being so fascinating, this one about the "i love zuko more than i fear you" line vs what atla's show canon actually demonstrates is something i think is vital to understanding what makes them so insane. and i do think it's unique, if only because of what the narrative wants to tell you vs what it actually shows you.

also, one of the most important things which i touched a little on earlier is just... the politics of atla as a setting for their relationship. that makes it 10x more compelling that azula is this tragic figure who is on the completely wrong side of history, a child soldier who fights for imperialism and racism and xenophobia because she has been indoctrinated and abused and made into a weapon, and mai is someone who fought alongside with her until it inconvenienced her to do so, then switched sides in the name of love without ever actually analyzing or critiquing her own beliefs about what her country was doing. mai chooses the good and moral side by choosing zuko (who also doesn't actually reflect internally and... gets to kind of just keep doing a friendlier imperialism when we look at the comics and lok, but that's another topic), but does she actually want that? does she actually believe in that? has she actually let azula go? the comics can try to whitewash her morality more by pretending she cares abt tom-tom and she's totally reformed, but the show doesn't actually support that, and with no material in-between to show us mai's redemption beyond her betraying azula, not because she cares abt what's good and right but because she cares abt zuko, we as an audience have no real reason to believe that.

so yeah, maizula is endlessly fascinating to me, and i wish a ship would be more interesting than them