#if you agree that gay men can be lesbophobic you have to also admit that it goes the other way too

[boy-above]

some people don't even try to hide how much they hate gay men because they think its totally fine being homophobic if they're a different flavor of queer

[praetorqueenreyna]

I disagree with your take on men not being able to experience SA (even if Ianthe is a stupid character and its alarming that SJM only seems to villianize her female characters committing SA) but there's something to say about a group of people coming after you for saying men don't experience SA in the most unserious way possible when that group of people also unseriously support and romanticise the SA scene with Fey/sand.

its ACOTAR, a fandom rife with horrible SA takes and depictions but they can somehow set that aside to stan the whole entire series and all of its demeaning themes and characterizations. Its also not lost on me that this went from "you're not putting wlw ships in a survey" to a whole research session on your opponent to discredit the fact that they did do the survey twice and it was for petty reasons.

Once again I wish you hadn't worded your take on men and SA like that, but hey it's your space and we do curate our online experiences. If that person knew beforehand that you posted things like that, why do the survey? If they had to search your blog after the survey argument to put a weight on your general character to take away from the original argument? Still backhanded, still not very "curating your online experience". We're all 30+ years old on a website that is very unserious and has supporters of incest of all things. I'd like to think half the things we are into or say here are unseriously said/or not said at all out in our regular everyday lives.

SO I will fully admit that that post was poorly worded. It was a casual post that was never supposed to get any traction, just something to throw my opinion into the ether. Not a serious analysis of how SJM expresses power dynamics and sexual assault. Part of why it's so confusing is that I literally got bored halfway through the tags and just stopped writing things.

Of course men can experience sexual assault from women, regardless of anybody's sexuality or attractiveness. My point was that women in power do not systemically abuse men in the way that men do women. I'm tired of lukewarm liberal feminists (such as SJM) trying to make some point about how the true victims of patriarchy are men. And that online warriors like the people throwing a fit about this do literally nothing to help sexual assault victims of ANY gender, and think that attacking some random person over a random post counts as social action.

But I totally agree with you! SJM seems perfectly happy to show over and over again these villainous powerful women who are somehow skeevy enough to offput the horniest men in world, but are conventionally attractive and don't really do much other than aggressively throw themselves at men. Which ALSO was a point of confusion: that post was not about Ianthe and Lucien. Obviously Lucien doesn't want to have sex with Ianthe bc he's gay. It was about how Rhysand, Cassian, and Azriel are all written as these shallow horndogs who bang everything with tits, but are somehow genre savvy enough to know that Ianthe is a Bad Female Character and are disgusted by her. It's not cohesive, it's just a way for SJM to villainize a caricature of a person and make her male characters (who btw are WAY more sexually violent than Ianthe has ever been) seem like good characters.

But again, this kind of bad faith interpretation and virtue signalling has nothing to do with real victims of anything. Because if it did, they would have had an actual conversation with me, rather than putting words in my mouth over what I did and didn't say. Quite frankly, they're mad that I'm a Tamlin fan, and so they're trying to tear me down however they can. Like you said, first it was "well she's lesbophobic bc there are no wlw ships on the survey." Then when I made my point about how the people who complain about that do NOTHING to actually contribute wlw content to fandom, it shifts to me doing something else. If I kept up the conversation and tried to defend myself, I would be accused of some other crime.

ANYWAY this is exactly the kind of conversation I do enjoy having, so I do appreciate this ask! It is so important to cultivate your fandom experience and try not to take this stuff so seriously, especially for a series as poorly conceived as ACOTAR. Not all of my posts have been winners, but the actual content of those posts doesn't matter. Because I like Tamlin, I'm always going to be a criminal of SOME kind to these people.

I fully admit I should have just deleted the original ask because it was not sent to open a real dialogue. It's a lesson I have to keep learning over and over again, but maybe someday it'll stick!

[life-in-the-monster-haus]

Some people have pointed out you can extremely easily pick the lesbian flag out the leaked howleens hair. While this is probably a delightful coincidence I’m wondering how you feel about howleen being the lesbian rep instead of clawdeen? Would it be a nice treat or a cop out?

You super can! Her hair looks like the sunset flag just upside down.

I want GOOD queer rep in Monster High! I want it almost as much as I want diverse body types. I want it so badly. I’ve DUG deep and unearthed some some queer rep crumbs. Zomby Gaga was technically our first Bisexual Doll, Greta Gremlin is technically our first trans doll with Frankie being the second, Neighthan & Valentine we’re both intended and coded to be gay men written by a gay man. But where or… should I say were was our lesbian rep? Garrett proudly declared Clawdeen as a Lesbian and because he was the creator most fans took his word as law… but this didn’t feel like a victory to me, it felt hollow. It bothered me & I couldn’t figure out why, after being called Lesbophobic by a dozen people on Twitter for daring to disagree with Father Monster it hit me! Years prior Garrett was asked outright if he wrote Clawdeen to be a lesbian & he said it was never intended her to be that way but he supports people who see her as gay. NOW fast forward like 2-3 years? Garrett left Mattel, he was not fired he left. Garrett declares Clawdeen as a Lesbian. The timing is important because not only did this come after admitting she was never written to be a lesbian, he said it years after he left Mattel and no longer had any influence on Monster High, Clawdeen was no longer his character. His word now means nothing. This? Was messy and unfair to lesbians who deserve to have good rep! Not just a sloppy afterthought tagged on later. Mattel clearly did not agree & hammered it home in G3 that Clawdeen’s hobby is “flirting with boys” and in the live action movie Deuce is crushing on her and the feeling is mutual. This had to hurt lesbians who see themselves in her and that? Was cruel. (I’m keeping my fingers crossed for Bisexual Clawdeen).

Now! I told you that story to tell you this story: Howleen has never had a canon love interest, she is also 14, these two things are related because in the episode Fierce Crush there is some type of full moon event going on that is making all of the werewolves lovey-dovey. (It’s probably mating season, but this is a kids show.) it's the first full moon of the lunar leap year.

There werewolves are giving their lunas a token of their love, This Crescent Moon High boy gives his ghoul his class ring.

Clawd gives Draculaura his varsity jacket. (someone please draw her absolutely swimming in that jacket pls)

Dee O'Gee gives his luna his... flea collar... how sweet of him...?

and Clawdeen tells Howleen not to fall into that “I gotta get a boyfriend” trap because she is too young. Howleen takes this as great personal offensive & says she’s not in a manner very fitting of someone whose obviously not mature enough to be dating yet. On cue Romulus helps Howleen with her stuck locker & she makes goo goo eyes at him, Clawdeen instantly tries to curb stomp that by gently reminding Howleen that Romulus used to puppy-sit her.

She tells her friend Lothar who...is someone we have never seen before this moment and we will never see again... That she "Really Likes" Romulus. As her friend, he tries to give her good advice and the advice he gives her IS good advice but she messes up and sets Romulus on fire.

But her attempts to impress Romulus are all in vain because apparently he's into.... The Create A Monster Wolf girl!?!?

Sure... Why not?

Anyways Howleen is kinda bummed by this and Lothar comforts her telling her that "If he can't see how furrific you are? then it's his loss"

Which is once again, really good advice. Lothar is pretty wise for someone we've never met before and we will never see again... Pity, we could have used a wise chubby little brother troll doll.

But then oh no! he likes Howleen! but she only see's him as a friend and the episode ends with narration from Frankie that "Romance can be pretty tricky sometimes. For every Monster who wont notice you, There's someone behind you, you're not noticing and someone right behind them" implying this slug girl has a crush on Lothar. WTF she's cute too! give us slug girl little sister doll!

Now NORMALLY I would say this is Howleen expressing an attraction to boys. That's usually my M.O. of ringing that cow bell that she's into boys and that automatically rules out Lesbian but still keeps the door open for her being Sapphic And OH BOY! I’m gonna eat my own words here but part of being being emotionally mature is admitting when your wrong and I don't think this attraction to Romulus is genuine. I think she is just trying to spite Clawdeen which is her usual M.O., Seem more mature than she is and she's probably feeling pressure from this lunar new year thing, I don't think she's actually into Romulus considering It has never come up before this episode and it never comes up again.

And I'm glad it never comes up again because it's fuckin' gross. He's way too old for her and I mean that in a serious way not in my usual "Romulus is absolutely a 45yr old grown ass man" way. He's gigantic and more than likely a High School Senior or even a Super Senior which puts him around 18yrs old and I know 4 years might not seem like much the older we get but that is a huge maturity gap for teenagers and totally inappropriate and possibly illegal I'm not really sure.

SO! Since that is really the only time we see her show an attraction to boys and no, I'm not counting her kissing the eyeball boy in "Why do Ghouls fall in love" that was her under the influence of Cupid's love spell and not real. it doesn't seem like she's into boys, but once she becomes friends with Twyla? they are never apart! and that is freshman shorthand for "I like You" could I be reaching? could be, maybe, it's possible... I'm not a fan of "they're dating just because they hang out a lot" but Twyla is literally the only person she trusts whose not family.

However, this is all circumstantial evidence, she's 14 and may not be into anyone! despite her protests she is still a baby.

But I don't think her being gay would be a "cop out" I think it would be wonderful lesbian rep if they plan her this way! her and Twyla is a huge ship and I find it adorable. there's gotta be SOMETHING there if so many people ship it. normally I don't go with the flow with ships I need something there.

But a lot of gay kids see themself in Howleen and if anyone could be the one to show them it's okay? it would be her. Howleen spent the entirety of G1 trying to find herself.

I think it's time she does.

[beeceit]

I'll admit, I did overreact.

This reply is going to be long and defensive, so if you can't handle that then don't read. But if you could, please come back and read when you can because I genuinely want to understand your point of view.

What you had said reminded me of things my abuser said after we broke up to try and make my friends hate me. You couldn't have known that and I let those memories cloud my judgement and make me more defensive than I should have been and I'm sorry for that. But you were the furthest thing from right and kind.

"OP is literally a bi/pan gatekeeper and promotes such nonesense as__" "Just know who you're giving a voice" and "be more critical about where posts like these are coming from"

These are the exact same things you see every time a lesbian asks for representation and someone immediately claims she's an aphobe or a terf. I did not say you called me a terf. It's just the exact same phrasing you see. You also did not say anything that suggested that you agreed with my post, so I took that to say that what I had to say shouldn't be listened to because of my imagined sins.

I never said that bi/pan people had to use those terms. I even EXPLICITLY said that I don't care if bi/pan women use butch/femme. I saw a post with terms that bi/pan people can use that I assume is made by a bi/pan person and I reblogged it. Some bi/pan people want to have their own terms but don't know any, I've seen some on my dash that wanted to know these, I saw that post as I was looking for terms for the person who asked that question. I wanted to show them terms that some bi/pan folks use if they don't want to use butch/femme. I'm not forcing anything on anyone, nor do I want to.

I know that bigoted cishets use slurs indiscriminately. I'm not saying they don't. But when they call bi/pan women dyke, it's because they don't think bi/pan are real and they're calling bi/pan women lesbians. Hell, I don't even use that word because it's specifically meant to hurt butch lesbians and I am not one. I can't reclaim the f slur, it's specifically meant to hurt gay men, I am not one. I've had that thrown at me, too. It doesn't matter. There are tons of lesbians that don't like bi/pan women trying to reclaim that word, and it's lesbophobic to say that what we think about slurs used against us doesn't matter because it's sometimes used against bi/pan women and that their comfort matters more than ours. Your defense that cishets don't care makes it even worse because you're saying that how cishets don't feel matters even more than how lesbians do. You aren't even addressing lesbians in a situation that very directly involves us. That doesn't change the fact that I have never posted or reposted anything about that slur and you said that without any reason to, as far as I can see because you felt that it was something offensive to you that you thought I would also believe.

I never claimed to be 'woke'. I will readily admit that I know very little about the bi/pan community. Hell, I had never even heard of the word m-spec before I saw your response. I never said bi/pan people have to do anything. You say you're trying to let me know about my bad behavior, yet you didn't say what specifically I had done wrong and why it was wrong. Instead you accused me of being bi/panphobic. You also didn't even address me, you told others that they couldn't trust me because of something I shared from someone else that you personally don't agree with.

Your entire first response was nothing but accusations and telling people I can't be trusted. Like I said, I'd gladly discuss and be informed, but you can not claim that you were attempting to teach me anything. If something I've said or shared was wrong then tell me. Explain to me. Don't tell other people I'm bi/panphobic and try to derail and discredit what I'm trying to say about issues that involve specifically lesbians and bi/pan women.

I don’t know who needs to hear this, but…

Bisexual/Pansexual women are not lesbians. If a post is about lesbians, if a post is specifically about lesbians, then leave it alone.

You don’t need to comment.

“BUT I’M MOSTLY ATTRACTED TO WOMEN!” I don’t care. You’re not a lesbian. WLW posts? Have at it! Gods know I would never discourage my bi/pan sisters from loving women. But Lesbians barely have a voice on here and part of it is because some of y'all talk over us at every opportunity. I love y'all, but please let us have the few things we can find that are actually for us!