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edwardsissyhandsthtdanceslikeabb · 1 year ago

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does shiv actually care abt loyalty?

thinking abt shivtom, then specifically WHY they're together i.e wrt shiv, made me reexamine logan's assessment of their relationship, i'd never thought too deeply abt it before, bc it certainly provoked a reaction from shiv (which was the point), and seemed biting enough, but i don't think that's quite what's going on there.

first off i don't think shiv's vice is loyalty, i don't think she was ever quite preoccupied with anyone's loyalty to her

(none of the siblings were — sans roman who was loyal TO logan and con, who chased after willa's love — [the two most romanticizing/complacent characters in relation to logan] but it could be argued that the two are the same thing manifesting differently),

let alone tom's, that's more logan's realm (projection lol? esp when he's notoriously disloyal and fickle in the romance department — and ACTUALLY pursues women below him, most notably kerry (also think its worth noting that when a woman did challenge him i.e gerri, he immediately devalues her, particularly interesting if you consider gerri's inclusion at the widow's table during his service — unless she was networking lol, doubly interesting considering his hypocrisies considering company dating/allegiance, ageism + desirability) — mans is NOTORIOUSLY noncommittal, esp as a means to ensnare ppl. which he and shiv DO share so maybe bru was cooking) and tom's, ironically [or not... more on that later].

loyalty, or one's preoccupation with it, is a possessive affliction, it demands, it is constantly evidenced and performed, its an anxious and insecure deficit — and this isn't to say that shiv isn't insecure (someone who opts for such shallow relationships and flits from vacuous intimacy to intimacy is obviously running from or compensating for smth), but she buries it, she disregards and bites back instead, opting to control and wound (treating things as tit for tat - transactional) —

shiv never really demanded things of tom, quite the opposite actually, she languished in his floundering, she pushed to see how much he could take, shiv shares caroline's judgement on the things logan loves: shiv too kicks to see if it will bother coming back, if it WANTS it bad enough. and shiv and logan are both cold and largely emotionally unavailable/unconcerned with emotion, and so the kind of passion that loyalty demands is largely absent from shiv & shivtom's dynamic, however the clinical, impassive manner in which shiv curates her life, CERTAINLY pertains to the way she moulds tom's place within it/her (😏).

to understand this, shiv's core fallibility has to actually be addressed, and that is - needing to be right™, or specifically, superior. shiv wants the sort of veneer that logan has earned, she wants to laud her superiority over others, the same way that logan thinks himself faultless and intellectually superior to his kin — except shiv wants to be able to feel superior abt it too, she wants to feel she earned it [which feeds into her efforts at individuality], she holds notions abt her true character that logan only wields manipulatively, practically.

unable to fit into logan's mould, shiv positions herself diametrically from him, seeking, unknowingly or otherwise, to best him at his own game [proving her superiority and equal formidability — the one he overlooked — bc part of shiv's overcompensation is egotism].

shiv is very perfunctory, and part of that probably stems from trying to claim this aforementioned individuality, trying to not be a logan derivative, to be better™.

shiv is always working in her own interests, even her pursuits within waystar always center herself, and ofc vying for heir is an inherently individualistic pursuit, but does waystar mean anything to shiv, like personally, other than a chance to take and spite, even until the end, a purely aggrandizing venture. shiv is concerned only with her stature during her tenure, with the optics of it all (as ken would say heh), shiv is constantly trying to assert herself, and similarly to all the roy siblings, her one pursuit is her most thwarted.

now this may not all meld given than love and betrayal specifically are shiv's consequences by the end of the show [the two things i posit she most neglected, yet evidently trailed her most], her interpersonal bonds largely frayed, but its important to note HOW this unfolds, and that these consequences were [not only] unforeseen, but inadvertent and inevitable. to expand on this, it needs to be acknowledged that at the core of the "betrayal" is tom besting shiv, its matson picking him over her, and a consequent reversal of their dynamic, tom now becoming the apparatus with which she accesses power instead of the inverse — her needing tom instead of him her. sure she had use for him/extricated smth exclusive to him, but she never felt indebted to him, she never felt weighted, tom was a choice, and she stuck by him to prove its worth to her, to always have a dependable sunk cost. evidenced largely by WHY shiv would stay upon her father's condemnations, upon their marring of her character, her undeniability, and its bc what shiv needs, what shiv truly values is subservience, its dependence, its the feeling of control and doing tom "favors", her benevolence and his constant parasitism, as she leeches and undermines his personal needs — the transaction. earning, feeling good™.

shiv is a coward yes. there's nothing to lose when you're uninvested, but there's also nothing to gain when nothing matters, including those around you. shiv had undermined and undercut tom at every opportunity and disregarded his every evident discomfort at her betrayals. tom, despite the implicit tenuous transactional tone of their relationship, actually tried to humanize shiv, its far from mere waffling when tom says he's offered her endless validation, when he says her sense of identity is non-existent, he's accepted her slights, he's offered the simple life, he's even doubted the authenticity of her pregnancy despite most seeing his attempts at family to be entrapping shiv. in actuality, shiv began to panic when there was no one to posture to, when the vacuum of logan's validation/acknowledgment also ushered in tom's independence, his participation in the game, elevated from mere collateral or pawn.

interestingly enough, tho, shiv treats tom most favorably when he openly wants, when he rejects his own pretenses and frailty and is callous and unfeeling like her, as if goading and priming him for this very iteration — a man she built up, gave value, modest and ambitious, and notably, a similar archetype to her socialclimber father [and tom IS the new logan, a ruthless opportunist corroded by the elitist world into viewing others merely as capitol (e.g shiv). shiv legit marries her father — siggy freu boy would be proud]. shiv enjoys the antagonism, the freedom in unabashed cruelty, but its in her indulgence that she loses, that she underestimates and comes to, ironically, find value in the adoration and dependence tom once supplied.

the hand that feeds finally being bit.

to conclude, this can easily be construed as loyalty: validation, subservience - they are the mark of subjects, of subordinates, and one's subordinates are implicitly loyal, but does shiv require his heart? does she require his care? does she agonize over being "fcked for her dna", or does she tally, does she loom, waiting, waiting for tom to incur her moral adjudication, making him work for her notice otherwise, fashioning her missteps into technicalities and overreactions and transaction.

does shiv need tom, or does shiv need tom to need her? [does she need his loyalty, him — authentic, dedicated and uncalculated. — or what he can provide her, his unwavering need.

logan is right that she's marrying a man fathoms beneath her, but she never cared much for him, his qualities, his approval, his presence, his allegiance (or lackthereof) or dependability, it was the echoes of her own influence she most prized. not loyalty, but entrapment — just like her pappy lol].

#succession meta #tomshiv #long post #siobhan roy #interesting to note that tom projects shiv's dependency entrapment onto greg — but imbues it with the passion/emotion he's left lacking #if this is bad and nonsensical its cuz im eepy #deal wiv it #succession #logan roy #tom wambsgans #all roads lead to...#pay for it by mindless self indugence #on spotify now #the last line lowkey being a jules vaughn reference pls ???#original post

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pwnyta · 2 months ago

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HUH

So no one was gonna tell me about The Old Guard?

I was supposed to just find it on a random ass Halloween 4 years after it aired... aight.

I mean I thought we were cool but I see how it is.

Anyways I watched it and I loved it IF YOU EVEN CARE.

Opinions-

Andy- Phenomenal. Never seen Charlize Theron look so damn hot. Even with her spooky eyes. Crazy butch bisexual(?) wielding a labrys sometimes. Love. Her church fight was sick as hell... im in denial about the stab tho... you can pry her from my cold dead fingies Netflix.

Booker-Like... OK. Like I get he was sad but its so hard to feel bad for him sometimes and like.. I dont hate him at all but just... I do wanna strangle him a little. JUST A LITTLE. I dont want him to be gone and never see Andy again... I hate that. I hate this movie.

Nicky- Great side profile, terrific nose... what in the Ben Linus is going on with the eyes tho? Those pale buggy eyes... This is your man, Joe? This Italian priest Templar knight with ghost eyes? Aight. Ribbing aside... I love him. Even if hes got spooky eyes.

Joe- Mortal enemies to immortal lovers is diabolical work. If you give me friends to lovers... it better be Crusade era enemies to begrudging companions to understanding friends to soul mates or fucking dont talk to me about it. NGL Joes kinda my favorite. Hes a silly little guy. Maybe my love for Sayid has made me soft for hyper-competent, deadly, romantic, shiny eyed Muslim men IDK.

Nile- LOVE. ..Ya know when Andy was like 'shes just a baby' I was like I sure hope this movie dont make me ship them cuz the fandom is probably gonna be annoying about that line but their plane fight was so hot... SUE ME. ANYWAYS... I love her. Apparently theres a second movie coming out & I cant wait to see her get to be a silly lil guy with the fam cuz she is silly lil guy. I love her relationship with Andy & I hope Andy gets better so they can be together forever & there can be some messy lesbian love triangle nonsense when Quynh.

Quynh- Dont got like... the deepest opinion of her just yet but her and Andy were like the Sapphic Nicky & Joe but in reverse.. like Nicky & Joe killed attacked each other then became lovers and it seems like Andy & Quynh were close and might become enemies? Of course IM GONNA IGNORE THE BAD STUFF AND PRETEND THEY JUST FIND EACH OTHER & ARE IN LOVE FOREVER. So...

Copley- Similar to Book I get his mindset but also I wanna strangle him a little. He is beautiful tho... so... Im interested in how hes gonna fit in with the gang... Im hoping for some drama at the start maybe them being like '...ya but hes not Booker...' and then Copley like... having some big hero moment saving the team or at least one of them and they get real close and then more drama because their new family is also just a normal guy & theyre gonna hurt to lose him some day. ANYWAYS.

MISC stuff I like-

The difference in how Nicky and Joe hug Andy.

Everything about this scene tbh. I just wanna see these types of scenes from now on. Silly lil guy moments.

Also Andys baklava addiction. Baklava is one of those things Ive always wanted to try... like boba and churros... ONE OF THESE DAYS.

This sick ass take down. Actually all the fight scenes were pretty sick. I like seeing them fight baddies all together... ODA TAKES NOTES. Also... full offense to guns but seeing Andy Nicky and Joe wield their old-school weapons is so much cooler... who brings a knife (labrys, long sword, scimitar) to a gun fight? THE COOLEST PEOPLE. THATS WHO.

Joe spitting out a bullet that he got shot in the face with.

'Shes just a baby!' (me with the whole team) Also TBF to Andy... Nile has such a cute baby face.

The development of Andy and Niles relationship. THO TBH I was bothered about Nile getting shot in the head because the exit wound woulda fucked her braids up.... I had a hard time focusing cuz I couldnt let that fact go lmao... It was driving me nuts...

The girls are fighting! (gone sexy)

Eepy not-boyfriends

Ancient head bonks of desperate affection. I hope all three of them head bonk Nile in the next movie. If this doesnt happen... im killing everyone in this room (its just me) and them myself.

This silly bitch in this moment.

Joes 'Hes not my boyfriend' speech. Incurable romantic indeed.

Honestly the soldiers tryin to insult Joe by mockingly asking if Nicky was his boyfriend and getting way more than they bargained for was fucking funny.

I just wish we coulda seen the faces of the guy driving the van as he heard the massacre in the back LMAO. Just keep drivin bud... aint nothin you can do about your boys in the back.