#if a popening happened it’s after the part i read to

[such-sweet-entropy]

well okay, you can get a hug

holy shit its the pope

what did you just call me

[applestorms]

Okay two things in response to this one:

Here's my evidence for thinking that Jake is more intentional in his manipulations than may initially be obvious. (Note "manipulation" might be a strong term, but I still think it's accurate here.)

Jake is clued in on Jane's crush on him fairly explicitly twice (2) by Roxy before he actually has the friendzone conversation, once way earlier & once immediately before. Here's the quotes:

TG: its one of those things jane likes about u so much GT: It is? TG: which TG: errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr im not supposed to talk about 2 u evr so nm GT: Talk about what? TG: nope GT: You mean how um... GT: Well a way in which i suppose... TG: no nope GT: Jane is prone to looking upon me with what i fathom to be more than just friendly affection? TG: nope nope nope nope nope nope TG: hey look who didnt say nothin about that why it is this silly fuckin drunk girl over here GT: Its a tricky issue. And you know i adore jane and please dont think i havent given some thought to... GT: Well that angle on our relationship i guess. TG: ooof jake jake no please TG: this is a conversation that cant happen cause i started it and i blew it by saying stuff so u have to foroget it TG: * 4get it GT: Oh. Yeah i can see the dilemma this causes for your friendship with her. GT: Ill drop it. TG: whew

(A6A1:4226)

GT: Should i expect a serious exchange about feelings and whatnot? TG: depenbs on the present magnitude of her tightassery TG: someone needs 2 move you fuckers along an get some stuff out in the popen already GT: Wait would this be about certain unrequited pinings you may have alluded to earlier? TG: i didint say nothin and aint sayin anything to that effeft GT: Indubitably. Miss zipper lips was it? Humorously misspelled of course. TG: mmmmm! TG: *zuip* GT: I guess i cant help but wonder if that truly is the way she sees me or if it is just some wild ego stroking delusion on my part.

(A6A2:4586)

There are a few takeaways from these conversations: 1. Jake totally does that thing where he seems to share his own observation but only after someone else mentions something that could support it (straight up saying Jane likes him when Roxy accidentally alludes to it), 2. Jake is not only intimately aware of the fact that Jane likes him as told to him by Roxy, he is socially aware enough to pick up on the fact that Roxy wasn't supposed to tell him and drop it (the "Miss zipper lips" a reference to "MISS ZUIPPERPIPS" from the first conversation), 3. "unrequited pinings".

What's really interesting to me though is the line he has immediately after the quote I posted above, in the second conversation:

GT: I always get this sense that people sorta fancy me but who knows i could be just miles off the old rocker about that! GT: Youre right i think its high time we cleared the air on some things even if there is a chance it gets all awkward and prickly. GT: That is what being brave and adventurous is all about after all. It isnt just about summoning the courage to pilfer some priceless loot from trap laden catacomb. Or shooting at stuff with two guns at once.

I read this as Jake doing a bit of a 180 in order to set himself up for the next conversation. Jake is clearly aware of the fact that Jane likes him (& from the conversation w/ Jane, he's aware of Dirk too), and in fact he is the one to explicitly state it where Roxy just accidentally implies it. He's also very aware of the fact that Roxy wasn't supposed to say anything, presumably more evidence of that crush's strength since why else would Roxy be so awkward about the fact that she isn't supposed to talk about it? The fact that he's playing into the "brave and adventurous" jock figure that he loves so dearly (as a way of avoiding responsibility by faking more ignorance) as well really adds to this imo. I don't want to fully deny the fact that Jake might be insecure about thinking all his friends have crushes on him, but again this information is coming from/being supported by Roxy, so he has that much more reason to trust it.

What's really important to me, though, is that one fucking word: "unrequited". Jake is not only aware of the fact that Jane likes him, he has "given some thought to [it]," and come to the conclusion that it unfortunately just isn't mutual. But that's also an unacceptable conclusion to him, because it means that not only is he creating conflict by liking one friend and not another, he's hurting Jane, which is unacceptable both because it means that Jane is hurt and that he himself is the source of it. Jake is therefore put into a tough situation: if he wants to pursue Dirk, and again I think he really does, he's going to have to push past the awkwardness of Jane's "unrequited pinings" first, and it turns out the best way to get around that is to pretend the feelings don't exist in the first place. Jake takes his insecurities and the idea that all of his friends couldn't possibly have a crush on him at the same time and runs with it because the conclusion that only Dirk likes him and thus that he only has to deal with Dirk's romantic feelings benefits him the most. He can disregard Jane's feelings entirely because Jane already did it first by straight up saying "No!" when he explicitly asked her. And yeah, maybe he does genuinely believe it afterwards, and maybe it was born out of a natural skepticism, but Jake is still changing the narrative to one that better fits his goals, pressuring Jane until she says no and then holding to that conclusion so strongly she can't back out.

(Note: Another example of Jake fucking with someone in a conversation can be seen in (A6A5:5669) where he's talking to Caliborn. Just to reiterate that he knows how to fuck w/ people in conversation when he really wants to by playing up his own stupidity)

2. JANE. Oh Janey, maybe I should make this a fully separate post to go along with my John analysis... But to answer your question, I think there are a few things about Jane's upbringing that might've influenced her to be the way that she is.

The key difference between the childhood of John and Jane imo is the fact that while John had a (mostly) normal one by typical human (American?) standards, Jane had an actively privileged one, growing up as the heiress of a corporate empire and thus being actively told throughout her childhood that she is not only important in the way that any child should be to their parent, but Important as the future heir to the company. Even the "assassination attempts" kinda point toward this for her, equating her with a (to-be) president through the specific type of danger she is put under. If I may show my personal biases for a moment too, I think the fact that Jane is the heiress to a capitalist corporation also means that she is inclined towards conservative in a way that a lot of other Homestuck characters aren't, especially considering how the HIC is associated with fascism. (Whether or not that association is done well is an argument for another day, but I digress.) You can kinda see this with how Jane is homophobic to Dirk- while all of the alphas have their own brand of homophobia towards him, Roxy because of her own unrequited pinings and Jake because toxic masculinity in movies is a powerful force, Jane is straight up ignorant about the fact that he's even gay in the first place, needing Roxy to really jam it in there ("TG: JANE GET A CLUE (A6A2:4571)) to really get the full picture.

Talking about intelligence again, Jane is also separated from her friends specifically because of her inability to accept things that she sees as too far outside of reality. This means that she actually grows up distinctly isolated from everyone else in terms of knowledge, being the only one to not acknowledge the reality of Dirk and Roxy's lives in the future due to her own stubbornness. She's actually kind of like John in that way, except where John is passively unaware of the significance of the abuse his friends are facing from their guardian figures, Jane takes on the more active role many HS girls do and straight up refuses to face the truth. I think a part of that is just Jane's personality, but a part of it can be attributed to her childhood or even the subliminal messaging she is regularly subject to through all of her Crocker-related gadgetry. I'd also again like to point you back to my second reblog from this post where I talk about the structural ignorance of oppressive societies; in this story, regardless of whether or not it actually meaningfully benefits Jane in any meaningful way, she is put into the position of someone gaining from HIC's oppressive society so she may be inclined towards that same kind of ignorance.

Anyways, I need to get back to writing my actual full response now so. See ya lol

in writing my response to @tipsygnostalgy's most recent dirkjake essay post, i accidentally wrote my own mini-essay. here's a little sneak peak since i dunno if i'll be able to finish this one tonight:

I’ve been thinking a lot about what Dirk says to Jane during their conversation post-Tricksters (A6A5A1x2:5830):

TT: We were all designated for a session that was utterly inert. TT: A place where the mechanisms for success never even existed to begin with. TT: In such a place it makes sense that the formal leader would be neutralized, to made feel unempowered and static. TT: And it seems particularly fitting she would be the noble of life in a realm of the dead. TT: A realm that foretold of a life player who felt lifeless, a hope player who felt hopeless, and a heart player who was just a stone cold motherfucker.

I feel like this conversation gets misread a lot, particularly in that people will often ignore the fact that Dirk is clearly biased in terms of his praise/idolization of Roxy and disregard for/blatant hatred of himself. Because the thing is- Jake isn’t hopeless, if anything he’s fuckin overflowing with hope when it comes to believing in other people, it’s just that he completely lacks that same belief when it comes to himself. Act Omega really got that part right, imo, with the fact that Jake really does need the reassurance that other people (namely, Dirk) believe in him in order to be empowered to actually start being active. “Learned helplessness” is the idea that comes to mind for me, one of the key ways that Jake is put into the stereotypical “woman’s role” is in the fact that he feels like he can never be direct in getting what he wants. But actually, I think Jake is pretty active, he just does it in stupidly subtle ways so that he can avoid having to take responsibility for literally anything. That conversation with Jane, for example- he still manipulates Jane into friendzoning herself, therefore getting what he wants (Dirk), he just muddles the waters enough that he doesn’t have to take responsibility for hurting her by rejecting her.

I think Jane actually is thematically a good representative of the alphas, in the same way that John is for the betas (and really all kids, but Johnny is special cause he was #1), it’s just that you have to look at her class, not her aspect. Maids are typically understood as overflowing with their aspect, literally made of it, causing them to have a very close, personal relationship with it but also putting a strain on their relationship with others because of it. The word “maid” also brings to mind servitude to others, which is big for the Megidos & their history w/ Doc Scratch.

While Jane struggles a lot with giving (life) to others, I still think the Maid class really is relevant to all of the alphas, especially Dirk and Jake but also kinda Roxy. This is where I think Dirk is ever so slightly off in his interpretation of their session- it’s not that they’re lacking their aspect, they can’t stop giving it away in service of each other honestly, it’s that they can’t give the same help to themselves.

Jake fervently believes in his friends, he has to if he wants them to be real as you said above, and it’s ultimately all very selfish, but he cannot believe in himself to the point where he needs to create a fucking intricately detailed copy of his boyfriend to tell all of his thoughts to him before he can believe they’re true. Dirk is fucking overflowing with love for his friends, his introduction to the comic is making sure Jane is alright, he holds onto Roxy and seems to be almost as devastated as she is that he can’t love her the way that she wants him to, Jake, but he absolutely cannot give that same affection and sympathy to himself. Roxy holds the group together, yes, but I think it’s in a very different way than Karkat and his blood aspect- she is the confidant that everyone talks to and everyone can confide their secrets in (regardless of how well she keeps them- sorry Jane, lol), she is void in that she is the keeper of secrets but also in that, by getting people to communicate and giving them advice, she takes away the void/confusion and helps them see a better path. However she cannot hold her own secrets, doesn’t have anyone else to confide in in the way that she wants to (Dirk gets it but doesn’t love her that way, Jane doesn’t believe her, Jake) and passively aggressively lashes out because of it.

It’s their fundamental flaw and the motivation behind the lies in their introductions and their problems with miscommunication. They love each other so fucking dearly, care so agonizingly much about one another, but can’t deal with themselves, can barely even face a mirror. It's the void session: heart is locked off, hope is twisted into something strange, and life has already long-since ended. The reason why Roxy is able to rise above all that shit is because she chooses to engage with her own issues, to face her alcoholism and shitty behavior head on and Deal With It, in a way that the others simply aren’t.