#idk if you guys can tell but her and nancy...dont have the best relationship

[lelandmylove]

Y'ALL IM FUCKING COOKING‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️ FINALLY GETTING TO MAKING LORE/CONCEPT ART OF WHAT I WANT HER TO LOOK LIKE AND VOICE LINES FOR MY TCSM FAMILY OC JOLENE OLIGHT LETS GOOO🗣️‼️🗣️‼️ hands are overrated as crap🙄 (I can't draw hands...)

[trailerparkflower]

Borderline personality disorder + Steve Harrington?...

So I was thinking about how Steve acts in relationships, researched dependency from the partner and then found a lot of info about BPD, wich made me think what many of the disorder symptoms are very fitting to Steve and explains some things in his behaviour. Lets starts, guys!

Promiscuity.

All his teen life Steve been slutting around probably too scared for serious relationships (because its better that way, no one will leave him if he leaves them first), all charming and needy and touch-starved, calming down his desire for attention and affection. 

Unstable relationships/idealization of the partner, lack of boundares.

Then he settled in the realationships with Nancy (who are brave and smart and oh, so stable), which turned out pretty much unhealthy from both of the sides, and Steve became so depended on his her to the point of breaking up his bounds with everyone else( including his probably childhood best friend Tommy) except her and planning all his life to revolve around Nancy.

Fear of abandoment, frantic efforts to avoid being alone.

He fears what Nancy will abandon him so much what he becomes even more clingy and needy, while she gains even more control in relationships and becomes a “top dog” (from Joe words). In ST1 we also see how insecure and  jealous Steve was to Jonathan, his dramatic reaction on John and Nacny hug, jumping in conclusions without any evidences. He even breaks Jonathan camera in the begining just out of his “insecurity” (again, based on Joe interview), fear what Nancy and Jonathan have better understanding of each other. In other words, he afraid what Nacny will leave him for someone else and he will stay alone again. Steve Harrington canonically has big abandoment issues, probably cased by neglecting parents.

Needing attention+validation

Idk if I even should comment it. We all know what King Steve persona was build for getting attention, admiration and validation from others, know how much time Steve spends on his looks and hair, how pleased he is when Tommy and Carol have all eyes on him. When he doesnt get compliments from Nancy, he pouts and praises himself on his own because he needs that.... “see, a ninja”; “make sure you wont forget this pretty face”, ect. You ask me, Steve has the biggest praise kink in all Hawkins.

Inability to regulate emotion, difficultes with anger controlling. Impulsivity.

Steve is one yelling bitch. He is a soft boy, but when he gets really upset and angry, he becomes mean and yelly and acts without thinking. He tears apart his own essay because Nancy couldnt help him with it, he pouts, storms of the rooms, screams at people. 

Getting upset easily + habit of blocking out intense painful emotions.

If you ask Steve how he doing, he probably will smile and say “peachy!”. Not because everything is really peachy, but because Steve prefers to ignore his own problems and things what makes him sad and pretend what everything is perfectly alright. He asks Nancy go to the movie and “pretend everything is normal for a few hours.”, says what his parents totally gave him hell for drinking beer but “who cares, screw them” and changes the theme. Tommy screams “run away, Stevie boy, like you always do!”, wich suggest us what Steve has a tendentions to avoid confrontations and stressful situations. He once again says Nancy go to the party and pretend to be normal teens in ST2 when she voices her concerns, and we see what ignoring problems and pretending is Steves constant coping mechanism for stress fear and sadness.

Distorted self-image.

Steves sense of self also seems to be instable and based on how people around him see him, like with Tommy he was a school bad boy, with Nancy he became a good guy, with Dustin he became a total soft dork as we see in ST3 trailer. He is unsure about his own goals, he doesnt knows who he is and who he wants to be, like wich job he prefers and what he likes to do in his life generally. Tending to base his own self on his relationships with other people, he gets complitely lost in the end of ST2 when Nancy is no longer with him.

Self-harm, self-desctuctive behaviour. Self damaging acts as drinking, drugs, vandalism.

Steve smokes, drinks, gets into the fights he cant win. Stands near Tommy when he writes about Nancy the slut and Jonathan the creep, runs away from cops. I would even say what his fight with Jonathan was quite maschostic, because Steve rilled him up and then barely protected himself and almost didnt resisted when Jonathan pushed him to the ground and started to punch non stop. Tbh for me it seemed like if Steve was so upset what he wanted some physical pain to blur his emotional one.

Dissociation, "zoning out"

Sometimes if you pay enough attention, you see Steve standing/sitting here with blank empty face. Usually it happens in stressful events, when he has some free time by himself. He also gets slow time to time, like hes habing hard time to concentrate. Cant be sure, but its does seems like zoning out. Im think there was even some parody video where people noticed what Steve sometimes gets blank faced and slow in the middle of the talk.

Paranoidal ideas, anixety, nervousness

Oh, this one is easy. You honestly wont find another ST character who is so full of anixety. He is fidgety, he hugs himself in a self-defense manner, he makes himself look smaller than he is, he constantly has the deer in the highlights look on his face, he cant think and act straight when he meets the Upside Down monster first time, so Jonathan even has to grab his hand and yank him to run. We also see how Steve is afraid of the goverment in the ST2, I would say its paranoidal behaviour-its seems like he does think what they are constantly being watched. Says what they will destroy their lives and families and changes the theme what Nancy wants to discuss.

In ST1 he is also ridiculously scared what his parents, dad especially, will find out what he drunk some beer, he gets so scared of this idea what he even calls Nancy and asks not to mention that to the cops, says what his parents will “Murder him”. 

In ST2 he is also pretty freaked out by Billy, in basketball scene when he is pushed down and Billy holds his hand you can see what Steve is trembling and looks like he is going to cry. Im not joking guys, just rewatch the scene....Poor guy just cant have a rest!

Presistent feelings of emptiness & guilt

“I'm sorry? What the hell am I sorry for?”

No matter is he guilty or not, if Steve having a conflict with someone, most of the times he will feel guilty and be sorry, as we see in the show. He wants to apologize to Jonathan for telling him means things, saying, “I just wanna be good, make things right”, buys him new camera (and giving it to Nancy, not presenting it to Jonathan himself.), cleans local theatre, he says sorry to Nancy, calls himself a jerk, a shitty boyfriend (wich is kinda downgrading himself), wanting to bring her roses and say how sorry he is again. Dustin also easily kind of guilt trips (”you promised to protect us”)  him to protect the party in the tonnels, while Steve clearly was against the whole thing, and feeling really unwell after getting his ass beaten by Billy.

Learning disability/scool problems. BPD can make it difficult for them to control the focus of their attention, to concentrate.

Steve plays it cool and pretends unbothered, but he actually tries hard to learn stuff. Even in ST1 we see in his room, what his table is covered by various homework papers. Its been shown what Steve having a hard time with study, what he is eager to be useful but not the smartest guy around, from his really chaotic essay and getting C-, to the Nazis comment. Its seems like he has some learning disability and doesnt even knows about it himself.

 Its also a known hinted fact what Steve doesnt have a good relationships with his parents, especially with strict father, he even calls him a “grade A asshole”. By their absence in the series, when we saw all the main character families, Steve remains all alone in big house, wich makes us think about how neglecting they are. The thing is, “people with BPD  have been found to be significantly more likely to having been abused by parents.”

During development, Joe Keery and the Duffers spoke about “what kind of family life [Steve] comes from and maybe this girl Nancy is quiet and listens in a way that other people haven't listened to him at this point.”-wich is pretty fitting to the portrayal of “neglecting, denying the validity of childnren thoughts and feelings parents”-that type of the bad parenting what BPD people mostly experenced.

“Parents were also reported to have failed to provide needed protection and to have neglected their child's physical care”, what gaves us the possible reason of Steves constant anixety and running away from the problems issues.

So, while we dont know can it be canon or not, I would say what there is high possibilities what Steve has BPD.

[startwithbrooklyn]

THE GREAT ND REWATCH OF 2021 / OCTOBER 5, 2019 // return of josh

oooookay folks! that's a wrap! below are my comments about tonight's ep + additional expansions on previously stated opinions. i'm not combining s2 ep 1 with this bc s2 is dead to me! so is s3! i only did this to gather up all these loose thoughts i had when this show with its one lonely season became such a comfort to me that i developed a second consciousness about it. but with these posts i am done! the evil is defeated! i will carry on through the 3rd and hopefully final season of nancy drew with less emotion and better spirits. thank god.

-"talk to owen" nancy firstly thinks of talking to owen only to see what happens w the agleaca; saying goodbye comes as sorta an afterthought mirroring tiffany's possession of george. yet nancy was unable to say goodbe to owen just like w kate. knowing this reveal about kate, i wonder if this was foreshadowing that something big will be revealed about him later? unlikely but still

-nancy + the reality of broken things: 'totems' like broken sand glass sculpture (good place) to show you it's not a dream; "owen broke that" ghost trap to ground him to reality, like how she reached for her locket in the good place, lucy's charm, ace's bear ('totems' idea borrowed from inception)

-george has never been an affectionate person, even with other women- so why does pda with nick suddenly become so important?

-lots of comments about ryan + women but what about carson/kate and karen? again with the hypocritical (interestingly, there is an aspect of violence to women connected with ryan (even though that violence is not his fault); but its not like kate or karen fared well either)

-ryan feels useless- relationships with women as stated by nancy- he seeks to redeem himself by showing up where nancy goes to prove he is good to have around/necessary/needed - but now that he is attempting to act as a parent he has to break through nancy's defenses all over again- firstly she didnt really consider him any kind of threat bc he comes off as incompetent- ie bad business deals- i think i mentioned last ep, their hauntings equalize them as they both attempt to gain peace by searching for answers but now ryan has changed the terms of engagement so he's back to square one, with carson. (which is how we find them s2 cowering in ryans car stalking nancy together)

-ryan's relationship to nancy exposes an interesting layer here. so far she doesnt know about nick/george but they still hold the cards (ie george gets one over on nick's ex/"the new girl") with the revelation of ryan being nancys father, nancy gains an interesting trump card in navigating the social fallout of being nick's ex. like george would take the new spot but then nancy comes out with george's ex in a much higher category. this plays out later on in the ep when george confronts ryan. george wants to talk about "them" but ryan shows up completely focused on nancy, thus illustrating the trump

-"i thought it was whitney with another insipid question" to me this sounds like whitney took bess's advice earlier about "asking aunt diana what she wants" (only to learn it actually annoyed the hell out of diana lmaoo)

-"then you need to fight for it" this hearkens nancy earlier by asking "arent you in by virtue of dna?" the test was positive; she is a marvin just like nancy is a hudson. thats not a fact that they can change. however, diana really acts like it can be changed- and in s2 we see it does change. its interesting for bess to be told to fight to be in a family she's already in and also foiled by nancy trying to fight her way out of her own family. would like to see bess stand up to diana and say something. i mean, she exists. as much as she may want to erase bess from the family, diana cannot erase her existence

-hannah's rolled up sleeves 💙

-"previous keepers records" -from s2- were those not her parents??

-mistaken murderers- everyone incorrectly assumes lucy was murdered just as they assume the agleaca killed owen

-even if owen weren't the price, how can they pay the toll without one of the people who called? i mean if it was anything other than owen and he still died they still wouldve been fucked

-"you don't need to check, i'm not even driving!" okay and giving up the goss. cassidy is me. lmfaoooo

-wonder if this locked marvin industries box will ever come back

-UNPOPULAR OPINION: george's confrontation with ryan comes waytoo late to do anything. i think i brought this up in an earlier post. its literally just her screaming at him now. like he is clocked out moved on. you know a good time for this scene? in the claw when he comes by to "check on her". hes vulnerable, fresh from rehab. and she has a chit over him for punching bookcases/the fuckin country club deal. therewould have been a perfect time to confront ryan on what happened- "what you did to me" okay sis. you admitted ep 1 you werent in hs anymore. youre of age now. admit you fucked up. take the L to force him to swallow the bigger L. and imagine how much more powerful the scene would have been- in george's domain, literally her own office, something ryan doesnt even have because HE DOESNT DO SHIT. ryan is SO EASY to trap but nobody notices. instead they have george try to get some kind of apology out of him when hes already done with that, and only for the sake of her establishing a new relaionship to boot. imagine how much more empowered she would feel if she just got that closure for herself- because she needed it, not so she could trot straight back to nick being all proud of calling a grown man to some random estate only to scream at him in a parking lot and have accomplished nothing. 🤦🏼‍♀️

-i get patrice thinking nancy is lucy but yeahhhhh this isnt how dementia works 😬

-i almost cant with nance and josh. how do you save your would-be murderer? (+ lucy's best friend and brother are in jail, her mom is lost to her mentally; all she has left is nancy and ryan)

-tbh i had no idea how to spell agleaca until bess said "theres no i in agleaca!" i thought it was igleaka like 😂

-damn how george just stares at nicks hand and then gets out herself is just so sad (like she immediately rectifies it but still...)

-"curiosity" part II; nancy who comes back to the sea after her mother died in it- agleaca drawn to lucy's trauma/to agleaca, lucy died fir "love"- would nancy be willing to risk the same? // this is also one of nancy's "mirroring mom" moments: winning sea queen, going to the velvet masque, getting caught by celia, having a "chat" with everett, and "falling" off the bluffs

-the collector 🎵👌🏻

-i wonder if there's any significance to the locations/means of their deaths; nancy's is pretty straight forward in terms of where and how, but why george and nick drowning, in the truck specifically? drowning in love? idk. ace's at the claw i get, but he gets himself caught? in what precisely? what does the fish hook mean? and bess's makes the least sense- burning alive? in the marvin estate? maybe the agleaca picked the most painful death for the marvin blood relation? idk. up for debate lmk ya thoughts

and lastly:

-i remember seeing this ending for the first time and i had just been traumatized by avengers endgame and since black widow is also a redhead seeing that shit at the bottom of the cliff it was like 😰😰😰 TOO SOON

-random thoughts-

these are just things i noticed, feel free to grapple with them or take note of them for extrapolation in s3 (lord knows i wont be) they probably belonged in recaps for previous eps but i either didnt find them in my notebook or couldnt fit them in

•nancy and truth/the perception of truth: using facts to suit theories instead of creating theories to suit facts- nancy often plays with the perception of truth and the details that fall between the steps; but she is also a victim to them by people who also know how to play the game (ie Carson) ex lying about the dress (tea cups and knives, trash got picked up, bail paid 1 hr ago) her inferences can be off from what others tell her ("people always lie") but she can also come to the wrong conclusions organically (carsons trial) more willing to believe the best in others/wanting them to be innocent (think nick ep 1) but later finding out the truths hurts more so she chooses to isolate herself and avoid involving others to be spared pain

•maybe i'm dumb, but who is "mr marvin" exactly? owen? the bald guy from the funeral? this comes from the guy who takes sailboats out like ep 4ish and says "ive worked for the marvins 20 years" she compliments the ship, he says "mr marvin and i just took her out this morning" so?? who is that? plus last ep just saying cassidy and isaac are her "late husbands children" dows thet mean sebastian? like did diana marry in? i feel like it would be odd for her to so embrace the "marvin way" if she wasnt a true born marvin

•ik college becomes a more s2 topic but none of the crew have ever been to college 🤔

•nick + the relationships with people whose reputations are tarnished: tiffany with investigating the hudsons/marvins, josh with murder/attempted murder, kate and 'stealing'/lying about nancy (esp compared to her almost preternatural kindness i mentioned before), george and her mom/family's reputations --> this kind of segues into nick + the concept of believing people you love could be capable of horrific things- accidental or on purpose (see- having to tell his family what happened)

•at the beginning, nancy kind of seems to be the "i'm sorry you're upset" kind of apologist and knows it. she also doesnt usually apologize earnestly bc shes never really sorry (she always has to get what she needs first ie coins mess) and she doesnt want to lie; to me it seems she doesnt like to bother with other people bc they require certain cues/niceties that are often lies- they ask "how are you" without meaning it, they dont really want an honest response except "fine", they dont like it when you call them out on fakeness, etc/ they require apologies for their bruised feelings even if youre right (and nancy can be pretty rude/nasty if provoked- a harshness unsoftened by sympathy)

•cont'd from the good place ep- since kate apparently means nothing to nancy anymore according to last ep ("stop calling her my mother") is her policy of "always seek the truth" now null and void? this mantra is now tainted bc the person who gave it to her broke it so much. can nancy disengage w it now? does she fall from grace to be complicit in "mysteries" of her own like everyone else? does she lose some of her "god-like" holier than thou act bc she is now literally born and raised in the "darkness" of sins/ugly truths like everyone else's? (ie truth is ugly but not to nancy, until now)

•did lucy disappear because her "murder" was finally solved? or simply because her trauma was addressed- she never meant to tell anyone about her suicide plans, the twisted trauma of which was too great to contain/unable to move on due to "sin" - or unable to move on because secret of nancy's parentage still remained? "lucy never wanted me to figure out how she died" she only wanted nancy to figure out her parentage without solving the mystery, yet did lucy see/witness nancy's revelation at the claw, or with carson, or even ryan? waiting for karen/josh to know? or just vanished?

•concept of imperfect mom figures- lucy, kate, celia, victoria, even karen- who all struggle with failings

•since karen dispelled one of lucy's attempts at nancy's haunting at the garden party, is that proof she isn't haunting karen?

•the crew + needing adult help: george's possession and victoria, club busted and owen, car accident and mcginnis, thom and cipher, larkspur lane and sal, bones and john, agleaca and hannah

•everett is always sitting- at his home office, at dinner, at yacht club (wonder if that was his actor + had to do with his recasting?)

-dad talk-

•both her dads think negatively on her "girl detective" thing but ryan sees use in it as a means to get answers, carson would never 'use' her in that way

•nancy + carson : suffering

"what about what i wanted?" + carson being imprisoned for weeks but she immediately rejects him (the DAY he gets his freedom no less) with no regard to his suffering (caused by herdiary!!) in regards to her own from this new knowledge (she does suffer a lot- "almost dying is my new normal" but still)/ the "thankless job" of parenting

•nancy + adults - connected to cop thing a few posts earlier : nancy is v precocious and smart for her age- she is "old enough" but also has trouble with the "adults" in her life- fathers, moms, karen, and cops letting her down but depends heavily on "adults" she cantrust- hannah gruen, john sander, lisbeth- highlighting her youth and occasional naiveté; nancy is unafraid to hold adults accountable for their actions (ie karen) but also loses them as allies along the way. both hannah and john are very nonthreatening and also experts in their fields, while her fathers and karen are revealed to be "just another brick in the wall" average, capable of mistakes, and not the people she expects them to be, while characters like john and hannah can only benefit nancy because either they do not mean as much to her or have no reason/nothing to gain by lying; they are purposefully shown to be small, demure, gentle, and nonthreatening as foils/opposed to karen, ryan, and josh whom she previously trusted; carson (+kate) is nonviolent as well but has the biggest betrayal which is perceived as an act of violence to her very personhood/shattering who she thought she was so she cannot be that anymore (admits truths to john "everytime i dig i hurt everyone" and hannah-agleaca) : unclear if redemption is possible for anyone :

•nancy bonds with carson over loss and then ryan over haunting. but actually, nancy rejects carson over loss bc she wanted to say goodbye and wasnt allowed to- so carson was with kate but nancy was not. nancy and ryan are more equals about haunting bc they both start around the same time and conclude together as well [nancy and ryan bond over thinking their parents conspired to kill lucy- think sitting on the floor at velvet masque] nancy is appreciated by ryan for her ability to get answers- he has no qualms about going through her/outside of police bc he wants results/instant gratification and thinks nancy is more so the expert in her field/respects her even through her age- once again acknowledging she is braver than he is (think lucy + claw parking lot) and her portent in the car freaks him out bc shes usually always in control, esp with him

•bc nancy was told "you can't be afraid of the truth" until she was / ironic bc shes braver than him except when the truth is they are related then she's scared to tell him while he actually starts to take some initiative

•nancy picked "the wrong person" to help her through her grief in her dad's eyes like her mom's best friend was somehow a better choice? carson truly "parents" nancy even during grief and haunting (which she rejects) whereas nancy and ryan are really equals in all their situations which is actually better for her and easier for her to maintain- nancy's expectations are low so anything that ryan gives is a bonus. nancy's expectations of carson were shattered by his lies so now she has nothing to connect with him about- they could barely even connect when sharing the same grief- carson actually very hypocritical hence nancy's upset at karen revelation yet carson doesn't agree bc hes the "adult" and shes the "child" not realizing she hadnt been one for a long time (hidden staircase perhaps?) whereas ryan better treats her with lack of controlling parental nature bc he is impressed with her competence before he receives that knowledge; "lucy was smarter than me too" acknowledging her intellect negates his ability to "parent" ie control her to leave him solely with caring about her wellbeing in her situations + aftermath - i honestly dont think carson would ever admit that shes smarter than him* bc he thinks shes not "all grown up" yet ("youve kept me on the bench for years"); ryan is more willing to meet her where she's at which is so important for all her good relationships - ace, owen, etc

*carson asks for nancy to figure out "who to trust" in ep 12, finally admitting that she is useful/ie acknowledging that her skills/abilities do help, are necessary, and can in fact save lives --> this is then s2 follow up by working for him (but it takes him that long)

•ryan/nancy/carson venn diagram - using sex to escape trauma

•if not carson vs ryan then what about celia and everett vs patrice (and josh)? at this point in the narrative, do you think ryan's parents would take his side should the knowledge become public (without their involvement), or deny nancy?

•"we were a family" + the disruption of family dinner- kate was really the one holding that family together and her death makes it unsustainable

okay!! that's all folks! i have exhausted my plethora of nancy drew thoughts + knowledge. you will never have to hear from me again!! TYSSM 😘