#idk i think kpop used to be more about marketability and selling an image

[wickymicky]

wow i really dont vibe with a lot of second gen kpop lol. maybe its not a surprise that i didnt get into it till 2019

[neonun-au]

Umm so BTS is apparently coming out with a single called permission to dance and it's cowritten by ed-sheeran and it's described as dance pop umm...sounds vErY familiar

I''m genuinely concerned for BTS, because oh lord if we're getting a third English single Hybe is literally going to ruin their brand and their western image. They're just going to be known

I don't know your opinion on this but as an army it's always a wild ride seeing army's defend BTS for releasing two generic-pop English singles by talking about how other KPOP artists do the same but I genuinely can't understand how people don't see the clear difference between both of them and it's kinda frustrating.

Bp for example released half and English album and a lot of artists like TWICE release English versions of their songs but they don't have that 'humble' image going on for them. They don't have the 'we dont care about records and we will stick to our korean songs and make music we resonate with'. As money-hungry as YG is, they dont give Bp a thousand remixes just to chart on BB.

So when you see just two years ago Namjoon preaching about how they will never release Eng music and stay true to their identity, how they don't care about breaking records it makes me wonder how much of their personalities are faked or have changed just to support the 'humble and rising underdogs' image Hybe has for them.

I used to think since BTS were shareholders and good friends with their CEO and hence have more freedom and more say in their works but seeing how their VLIVE'S are still controlled by the staff and stuff, I'm not so sure. Especially after they released stuff like Black-swan and BE last year. It's clear Hybe is milking them for money judging by the amount of merch and the BE scam last year and it's scary how army's just sweep that under the rug or are viciously attacked when they say this. Would love to hear your perspective on this.

(oh god this is so long im so, so sorry)

HAHAHAHA that was very long, but I don't mind I love discussion on basically anything lol

BTS I have not been interested in really since Blood, Sweat & Tears. I sort of fell out of k-pop in general soon after than and most of the songs they released post 2016 just like...really are not my thing.

I think that no matter what, before and now, they were selling an image ultimately.

Before their turn to western music/media, they sold an image of being "self-produced" and "grassroots" and more relatable than other groups at the time. And I think that worked because it was a small company and regardless of how you feel about BTS as a whole, the boys are very dynamic and obviously have talent and stuff. They were always really entertaining in the early days and that worked to build and super loyal fanbase of people.

Now that they (their company and them) have seen an opportunity for them to expand into a new market and make tenfold what they were before in terms of money, their image has shifted to something more palatable to the broader American market. Unfortunately when you try and market yourself to everyone at the same time, you are ultimately not really appealing to anyone in particular. It's just bland radio pop. Which is fine, whatever, obviously that is making them money.

On that note as well, Big Hit/Hybe is a company at the end of the day. And what they care about is their bottom line. There is also probably some personal desire to do this on the part of the CEO himself, as sort of a...I don't know, notch on a proverbial belt in a way?

The boys themselves? Idk. It's impossible to tell what is authentic and what is not in k-pop, or literally any entertainment industry, because there is so much thought behind every tweet, every video, every comment. Everything is geared towards that bottom line. So it is both impossible to be completely authentic and impossible to tell on the behalf of the audience what is authenticity and what is pandering.

At the end of the day, though, I don't think it really matters. I think Armys on the whole should chill the fuck out and just enjoy it for what it is--pop music and entertainment. Treating it like a religion like this is damaging on many different levels.

EDIT: also yes i agree with your first point there hahaha army's will defend them over literally anything while ignoring their hypocritical criticism of other groups entirely

[uiruu]

lol Anthony Fantano mentioned Loona’s XX album in a “Y U No Review” video he did yesterday (timestamp 11:16)

And like, he said it was good, it was fun, but felt kinda too “cleaned up” and stuff in the way that a lot of kpop and just pop in general nowadays is, and he just kinda left it at that

To be honest like I get what he means. idk if this is a controversial opinion but... like.... it’s good and I loved it and will listen to it more, but its not a good Album. It’s a good collection of some songs but not an Album. It feels like it’s just Butterfly plus some b-sides, which is kinda the case anyway. I mean, b-sides that I love a lot and think are interesting, but b-sides nevertheless. It doesn’t feel like a cohesive album with strong point after strong point, it feels like Butterfly and things that serve to complement the mood and tone set by Butterfly. And that’s fine, that seems like the go-to strategy for kpop? Like they definitely don’t do albums the same way we do here. XX has 5 tracks and one single. Again, that’s not bad, it’s just hard to use it as a selling point if you aren’t already invested in the group, and it doesnt show the full range of what they’re capable of, because how could it? It’s only 5 songs and a 50 second intro track lol. The way Loona releases music doesn’t fit the format of the way Fantano reviews music, I don’t think, outside of when he does track reviews, and music videos aren’t really his wheelhouse. 

However, if Loona released an album that was just like 8 or so of their best music video songs, with a couple other tracks to flesh it out and help the album flow naturally, I think that album would kill, and I think someone like Fantano would praise it highly. The production on Loona songs is so interesting, and I know I’ve talked about that a lot in the last couple days, but I really feel like Loona is the music lover’s kpop group. If you’re into choreography and filmmaking there’s a ton for you there too, because both of those aspects are also really top-notch, and if you’re into the fandom of the members and stuff and you look up to them or idolize them or whatever there’s that too, but like... If you like music and you like music that experiments and plays with sound and genre and changes up your expectations and is very rich and vivid with color and noise, and you’ve been unable to get into kpop or you would like to try it out, please check out Loona lol. But instead of the XX album, I would much more recommend just their music videos at first, and pay attention to the production and instrumentals as you do so, and just all the artistry there.

I know it’s kpop and the girls don’t write the songs, but that usually means it’s some executives doing fuckin market research and shit to see whats popular in America who write the instrumentals, or they just come up with a checklist of what the next big single needs to have... But I just cant shake how Loona doesn’t feel like that at all. Like, its kpop, its bright, its fun, etc, but there's a surprising amount of versatility and creativity. They could get away with a ton less production than they have, but most of the songs are so dense with noise... like they take a basic skeleton of a pop song, with a catchy and danceable beat, and then just sort of throw things at it, adding little bells and whistles all over it, adorning it with little background melodies and interesting soundscapes. Is soundscapes the right word? Probably not lmao, I just mean the character and feel of the sounds, the mood they set and the sort of world and image and vibe it takes you to in your head. 

And honestly like, I’m so new to Loona (like only maybe a month into them), but I’ve been a fan of experimental and interesting music for a loooong time, so like, I know that this individual album isn’t mindblowing. Loona is quickly becoming a powerful force for me, a group and sound I really respect artistically, but like, I don’t think id put this album anywhere near my top ten, because, as I said, it doesn’t feel like an album, it just feels like a main track with a couple b-sides. 

So, I’m of two minds about this. Three, I guess. 1. I really love Loona and even though he brought attention to them still by doing this (and that’s cool), I wish it was a positive thing and I think he missed out on something I think is up his alley by not diving into their broader discography. 2. He can’t really dive into it though, because he reviews albums, not discographies or individual music videos, and also he doesn’t have time unless it’s in album format, he’s a busy guy. And so, based on its own merits as an album, yeah I wouldn’t probably do a full review thing of it either if I was him. and then 3. Fantano isn’t the be all and end all of music criticism, and I have a lot of issues with him (though less than I used to, I mischaracterized some of his views in my head. not all of them though, there’s plenty of stuff that comes to mind that i do disagree with, but not like dealbreakingly egregious stuff i guess. he’s just kinda liberal. lefter than a lot of democrats, but he’s definitely still a democrat through and through) So like whatever lmao, I know this doesn’t matter at all, he’s just one dude, but he’s turned me on to so much music that I love and honestly my thoughts about the intricacies of Loona’s music come from learning to think more critically about music I listen to after watching his videos over the years, and I’m not alone in that, so he has a huge platform of people who probably will check out something if he says its good. Not necessarily that people just follow him blindly, but that he introduces people to a lot of stuff they’ve never heard of, and a positive review of something unfamiliar to me might warrant me giving it a try even though it’s a little embarrassing to say I found a lot of my favorite music through this Bernie-bro socdem 30-something memeguy. But yeah, ultimately, I don’t care that he didn’t review it or call attention to it or even that he wasnt a huge fan, I just had a lot to say in general.

[minblush]

k-armys are spreading a tweet namjoon made in 2013 about korean independence where he says 'There is no future for people who have forgotten history' which shows he probably won't agree with working with a japanese imperialist, hopefully he still has this attitude in 2018 twitter(.)com/BTS_twt/status/367906282012831744

yeah i have seen them doing that ;; and fancafe and all the official tweets since then have been flooded with people talking about these things too, but bighit is playing dead fish so far :(

microwavehater said:Am i the only one who never believed that bts has ~creative freedom~ (anymore) ? If they (still) had, they’d use their influence to spread msgs like baepsae, not just love urself uwu (considering yoongi made political pre-debut releases &interview stuff) Also, their newer releases (LY her onwards) are v much lacking in the hiphop department which (i assume) was a marketing choice. Hiphop just doesn’t sell as well to a female audience (along w the fact that vocalists are the face of BTS).

i think they still have creative input but creative freedom definitely not, but it’s debatable if they ever had it anyway? idk.. and them moving on from hip-hop was definitely both trying to change things up as well as appeal to a broader audience, love yourself era overall was an attempt to basically touch as many people as possible, i don’t mind them changing their musical direction but what has bothered me was the loss of their involvement (because it is less)

Anonymous said:I totally agree with you about BTS losing their originality. I’m almost starting to get annoyed of them. Now bc they know people love their music for its topics such as mental health, etc I almost feel like they’re thinking that they’re obliged to constantly write music that only has a “social” message. I did not like Idol at all. It was pretty tacky and the idea of loving yourself seemed so forced in the lyrics. I want them to make songs about whatever they want at that moment. (1/?)

Anonymous said:Also every fan keeps saying the same thing about them being unfiltered when actually they’ve become SO filtered now. They’ve almost created this illusion of being super open with us when actually we barely know anything about them. I don’t mind that but I hate how they’re touting that as something that applies to them. Honestly most fans now are the bandwagon type and the fandom is starting to feel more like a cult versus a community like it used to. (2/2)

i don’t know if i ever talked about them losing their originality? because originality is debatable in this case too, if you mean their original intention then yes i agree with that, and i agree they definitely created the illusion, once i got out of the bts bubble a bit and also thought back to the old days, i realized how closed off and filtered everything is comparison to the past and even to other kpop groups nowadays that are way more direct, i feel like even exo is more outspoken these days and direct with their fans which i thought could never happen??? i used to stan them and it was hell hah.. and these days.. wowza..

Anonymous said:Fuck yesss we need new yoongi mixtape and i agree abt what you said i wish bts could read that and be like okay guys i think they are right we have done some questionable things and shit has to be addressed whether we like it or not and just fucking do so. Some fans will drop but some would drop anyway bc it is getting out of hand i would never want to call bts problematic bc shit i cannot imagine that being true but them supporting problematic people is kind of making them ones

i just feel like nothing will change because bang pd is too greedy.. he really is eyeing like building a global empire with all the business deals he has been making.. also bts have done plenty “problematic” things themselves, though not to that extent, but some of their actions have hurt a lot of people too, but it depends on what bothers you, i find colorism and things like that a problem, but ofc definitely different thing than pedophilia and such, i just meant to say that nobody is perfect

Anonymous said:Do you ever just wanna randomly bump into bts and be like “hey lets talk!” And then tell them about all these issues and fandom drama and just tell them to wake the hell up? Cos I do haha

well even if we bumped into them, most of them wouldn’t talk to you so dkajsdka

Anonymous said:i agree with everything you have said but what bothers me is he is a co produce of produce 48 and nobody really complained about it even though he is know for sexualizing minors... or did i miss something?? also i feel sorry for you getting hate you were just saying your opinion and people should start to accept some facts! it's not the first time bighit did something questionable ://

oh but actually when that was announced there was backlash? i remember seeing complaints about the producer as well as some of the trainees due to their supposed right wing associations, there were also complaints about women’s rights cause of the oversexualization of some of the girls back in japan and the producer’s lyrics, i think this backlash seems bigger or more visible to you because it’s happening in your fandom ;; that season of produce even ended up having the lowest rankings and voting participation so :/

Anonymous said:I have three words to describe the part of the fandom that blindly accepts all the things, even the problematic ones, BTS do. 'Situationally woke cult'.

that fits perfectly

Anonymous said:i rly appreciate sou voicing your thoughts even if they r not in essay form or refined for days. I agree with you on many things but at the same time it's not as disappointing to me bc I guess I never held them to high standards. like in the beginning I could kinda imagine that they were somewhat sincere (but still remained sceptical) but the more they got famous the more I accepted that that sincerity and authenticity would stop bc that's just the kind of business that kpop is... (♤)

Anonymous said:like it's an inherently dishonest industry. they sell an image just like everyone else, and at best(!!) they were as real as possible with us in the beginning. no doubt they wanted to be different from everyone else and it was easier as long as not that many people gave a fuck about them. but as soon as they started to this chance was over. so i guess what I'm saying is that my view didn't change and I'm not surprised, because I never really bought what they were trying to sell...(♤)

Anonymous said:I still love them, theyre likeable & adorable boys. but theyre not changing the world. they're not in the right kind of industry for that. they love their luxury expensive stuff & the glamour of it all & that's okay. I just take every concept the whip out w/ a grain of salt & a knowing smile & enjoy the entertainment. that's just my own two cents that nobody in the fandom wants to hear so I'm bothering u. & its not an analysis or anything just what is on top of my mind while watching TV lol (♤)

Anonymous said:(♤) oh ps. except for that whole controversial stuff with that misogynist jpn songwriter and supreme boy and what not. I take that seriously , I wont act as if that's just a cute quirk. but they're men so I didn't expect much lmaoo. I knew that those kind of disappointments are just part of the deal ever since I learned that jimin (a whole cutie pie and my ultimate bias) stans chris brown. definitely would kick jm in the shin for that if I ever got to meet him. at least keep it to yourself lol.

haha i wish you didn’t start this with a backhanded compliment but dkajsd yeah overall i see your point and agree... i understand like if you didn’t buy into that whole spiel, then of course you can just keep on going and stanning them as idols and all that comes with that, but many people and me included sincerely thought that they were different, i have stopped stanning kpop groups for a while and got drawn back in with bts because i felt they were so fresh and unique, genuine and open with fans in comparison to other groups i have stanned.. but ofc that image crumbled as time went on.. things have changed as well... and i agree, it’s fine to enjoy it for just the entertainment and like the boys as people, accepting they are just as any other idol.. and maybe i will continue with that perspective myself!! but i honestly find it difficult having believed in it and also bighit continually selling this image to their fans despite evidence of the contrary, i can deal with idol business but like continually being blatantly lied to and then being in a fandom where most of the rhetoric is build around blindly believing it and eating anything the boys and bighit sells? it’s honestly emotionally exhausting sometimes.. but yeah.. you’re honestly right.. even with the last point lol... they are men, and korean men at that sigh.. that’s why i’m burying myself in girl groups nowadays adkjsd to heal my soul

Anonymous said:Hope you have a wonderful day filled with only good things ❤ - the cutest person in the world

thank you so so so so much! you have a wonderful day too ♥ cutie

Anonymous said:simple question, not loaded at all, no wrong answer, the honest answer is the right answer- yaddah yaddah you get it -what do you think bangtan is lying about and what exactly are you saying overall? i just need the language simplified for my 3 braincells :) if i do get what you're saying - whether the actual members of bts are real or not, their message is. "dont let anyone tell you what to do" "live your own life and not a borrowed dream" "life is a marathon, not a race - go your own pace"etc

you can read this post as well as the tags to it to see some of the examples, i mean i have been saying lots of things so i don’t know what exactly you want me to clarify? i think their message is compromised when their actions contradict it, whether it’s their actions or bighit’s is up to debate, like i was talking about in the post though, you can’t have things both ways, can’t hail the boys as woke independent kings while propagating the idea that they are just the company’s pawns at the same time, if you accept their authenticity isn’t there then ofc it’s a different argument, and the things you have listed there may be true, but isn’t is soured knowing they are just things that are said in order to sell bangtan as a product to you? to me they are

Anonymous said:I'm not gonna disagree but I like to see all the sides of a story. Bang pd is their boss, bts made a contract with him, he will ALWAYS have the last word on, well, everything they put out. We like to think that bc bts has creative freedom they can do whatever they want, well obviously they can't. Even if bts wanted to talk more about issues and not work w bad ppl, bang pd wants them to succeed, he wants to make money bc it's his business and bts is the only thing bringing money to it.

i get this argument a lot and to that i will answer again this and this, i don’t understand what your point is exactly though, so you are saying bts are pawns that have to do as they ceo says, yes and? i am criticizing the decision he has made? i’m criticizing that what he cares about the most is money? that he will stop at nothing to widen his wealth and influence? i will not support bts cooperating with vile people just because it wasn’t -completely their decision-, i’m sorry i’m really struggling to see what your point is about the other side of the story, it’s a shitty situation and if they all go through with it, it be greatly disappointing