#idgaf about what happened in acosf

[bookofmirth]

i know feyre stans hate it when u hate on feyre becoming a mother but i feel like in this situation it’s so justified!

i don’t think i even need to explain the fact that she’s literally like 22 ???? it’s just insane to me that she’s immortal but had a child at 22

99.9% of books with lead female characters end with them being pregnant and having babies so it’s not like that trope needs any more representation in the slightest

i wouldn’t care if it was at the end of the series and everyone had settled down but smack down in the middle of a series with a whole ass war coming and they’ve had a baby? it just looks really silly

and the fact that all the next books are going to have so much space taken up by fawning over the most gorgeous, perfect, smart, genius, most powerful baby in existence (it’s rhysands kid i just know sjm is about to take up pages describing how magnificent baby nyx is)

and honestly the last thing this series needed was a baby and the next books being about baby daycare and characters babysitting nyx

already so much space was taken up in acosf with this baby plot line from hell and i’m crying in the club thinking about how much of elains book is going to be taken up by feysand, nyx and daycare 😀

i know it’s just a baby or whatever but it’s literally renesmee 2.0 but 10x worse

anyway i think that when people hate on the nyx storyline it shouldn’t just automatically be labelled as misogyny or whatever because i think readers have the right to be upset about a baby plot line in a fantasy series

i really was expecting to read about nesta and elain conquering their powers and figuring out what their purpose in life is and finding a court thay they love and nesta’s book was already made 1000x worse with the pregnancy plot (especially the end which was absolutely too focused on feysand like let me read about the valkyries after the blood rite!!!) and if elain’s book is taken up by the worlds most powerful baby i’m going to cry!!!

the world's most powerful baby aslkdjaskldjakls I snorted, she *would* write that story

I definitely think you can be a Feyre stan and dislike that story line, just saying! I love her and it's not just that I hate the pregnancy thing in acosf, but it does feel like... just narratively it wasn't a good choice because like you are annoyed at, it distracted from the main story and was such an obvious "I need something to happen to bring Nesta and Feyre together" and I wish feysand had had time to just EXIST because I love them too and I wanted that for them.

idk if Feyre is happy then that's fine, I personally just dislike the fact that her pregnancy was used as a tool to create conflict and then bring the sisters together, rather than a natural, organic step in Feysand's relationship. There's just a lot going on in that story that's a whole mess, and it's not just about disliking that type of story. I'm sure people have misogynistic arguments about it, but that's what the block button is for. However it's possible to critique that story fairly and have that critique have nothing to do with being misogynist. If the story were done well and were believable, that would be one thing. I could get on board. The fanart of the family that I've seen is super cute! But then I remember how the story actually happened in acosf whomp whomp

[bookofmirth]

Am I the only one who kind of doesn’t want Eris to turn into a Rhysand 2.0? One of the things I really liked about Eris is, him being portrayed as this morally grey character in ACOWAR. He brought some nuance into the series, because so far, all of SJM’s villains have always been very one dimensional and not fleshed out enough. Now with Eris, she could give us a character whom readers are conflicted about, who does unredeemable things as well as good things, like for example be a support for Lucien. I don’t want him to turn into this guy, who all this time hid his true personality behind a mask, hence excusing his past behaviour.

Also, I realised that readers in this fandom are generally very quick to judge a character based on one scene. Apparently, it only takes Eris telling Cassian, he doesn’t know the whole story (about him and Mor) and Cassian telling Eris he isn’t a monster, for people to come to the conclusion, that Mor is the guilty party, bash on her even more and praise Eris. Don’t get me wrong, I love Eris and I know that some people have loved him before ACOSF, but I kind of wish that the fandom would sometimes look at things from a wider spectrum and not take things just as they are. This is probably because of SJM’s writing style and her habit of telling not showing, but it really bothers me.

Hope you're having a lovely sunny day!

MEEEEEE okay I'm gonna rant about how much I dislike him, and how much I hate the fandom reaction to him right now.

I know this is a popular take right now, that Eris is just Misunderstood™️ but honestly?

idgaf about Eris. He can choke.

Eris didn't have an entire court to protect. He didn't have to sleep with Amarantha against his will for 50 years to protect his reputation, thereby allowing him to act evil but actually help people under the radar (e.g. making sure Clare Beddor didn't feel anything). He didn't have to leave Mor the way that he did, without telling anyone what was happening. I hate the comparison between him and Rhys, if only for the simple fact that Rhys had way, way more responsibility on his shoulders than Eris has ever dreamed of.

Cassian was right to say that Eris is a coward. He's a bargain basement Walmart generic brand Rhysand. Lucia @aelin-godkiller made a great post about Eris here, and yeah it came out just after acofas was published, and yes we've had acosf since then, but honestly???

Eris saying "you don't know the whole story" is... not enough reason for me to give a shit about someone who makes traumatized, queer character feel fear. Him actually slut-shaming her in a circumstance that in NO WAY called for it is... not okay??? Like even if there was more to the story when they were betrothed, him saying that she "still dresses like a slut" 500 years later is not called for 😂If he does know that she is queer, which was heavily implied, then maybe making digs at her sexuality is... a complete asshole move!!!! And an intentional one!!!!

Honestly, I hate Eris, I hate how the fandom is so eager to believe the slightest word from him, but it doesn't surprise me given how eager people are to believe that Azriel is also secretly a soft boi who is just being harmed by Mor being Not Into Him. If sjm is knowingly constructing this narrative wherein a queer victim of abuse is questioned for their truthfulness when speaking about that abuse and homophobia, and wherein a queer character's queerness is most important for how it affects the straight people around them, then I will burn my books istg.

EDIT okay sorry I went off on your ask, especially since you said that you like Eris haha.

I just have very strong feelings about him. And I have very strong feelings about how the fandom reacts to him and Mor, because I think that it reveals more internalized misogyny than reactions to Elain ever have. SJM really does tell and not show, but people insist on looking for what she is showing. It’s just honestly not that deep, and the fact that she has potentially constructed this narrative of “queer hurt woman is likely lying about her trauma” just makes me ill. I hope that’s not where sjm is going with this, I really hope. But we will see.

[bookofmirth]

I’m seeing a lot of people dismiss Elucien by claiming Elain doesn’t want him and “shrinks” away from him. I wanted to get your take on this. Cause how I see it is Elain desperately wants to feel in control again which is why she is pushing Lucien away. She has suffered tremendous trauma from being kidnapped by Hybern, turned into a fae against her will, being told she has a mate, her fiancé leaving her, having powers thrust on her she doesn’t understand, being kidnapped again, losing her father, and now having to pretend everything is fine because she sees how her sisters were struggling with their own trauma.

All these things happening to her and she hasn’t dealt with any of them, and that includes the mating bond. She hasn’t rejected it or accepted it. She just ignores it’s existence including Lucien himself. Given she has had over a year and still won’t even discuss the bond makes me think that is her way of taking control back. That she’s telling the Cauldren or the Mother or Fate to fuck off by deciding the bond doesn’t exist.

So seeing some other people claim that she doesn’t want Lucien I have to question that if that was definitively the case why doesn’t she outright reject the bond? Why drag out this feeling of limbo by ignoring Lucien or “shrinking” away from him? I see it as her taking control of her life back. She’s deciding she won’t deal with this thing that was pushed onto her by some divine entity. Same way she has pretended until ACOSF that her powers were gone.

And regarding the other unnamed ship for Elain I think that’s also a control thing. I think she genuinely cares about him. He saved her life many times and made her feel safe in this new crazy world she was pushed into. I just think that connection she has to him is the same as any traumatized person would have to someone who rescued them/experienced that same pain. I think maybe Elain is pushing for more in that connection because she feels this is a choice she made and not Fate. This relationship would be her taking control back. Which is why I could see them sharing intimacy that essentially will leave her feeling unfulfilled, especially considering his POV is more about what he thinks Fate owes him. Basically they would both be using each other.

Sorry I seriously could go on for another few paragraphs talking about how even in ACOTAR Elain was portrayed as the easy going one and that may be further evidence of her not dealing with her feelings… there I go again. This is a lot [insert I just have a lot of feelings gif].

This is really long, and I love you for your thoughts, and I am not one bit sorry that this took me like 45 minutes to write.

This argument is honestly the one that drives me crazy the most because we literally do not know what Elain wants. People keep saying “she’s not interested” or “they never talk” or “there’s no interaction” etc. Are they supposed to discuss the mating bond and their deepest feelings and thoughts about one another at Starfall, or winter solstice, or some other family function in front of literally everyone they know??? 

I’m sorry, but did we get an Elain book that I missed? A Lucien book? No, we’ve gotten Feyre’s story, and Nesta and Cassian and a bit of Rhys. Not once have we gotten a POV in which we could see Elain and/or Lucien discussing how they feel about one another without someone else present and/or interfering, without that information being filtered through someone else’s perception of how they feel.

And tbh? I think that’s telling. To me, that means it’s being saved for a future book.

Regarding the way that Elain supposedly shrinks from Lucien - again, if she really didn’t want to be around him, Feyre and Rhys would make that happen. 

In acowar, their interactions were quite different because she had just been Made, her powers were still unknown, she was still mourning Graysen and her father. Elain had a lot going on. I always like to compare it to feysand, and what Feyre’s reaction would have been if she knew about Rhys being her mate as soon as she met him in acotar. There’s no way in hell should would have just instantly thrown Tamlin over for him. Why would we expect Elain to be able to make that shift in her affections so easily?

In acosf, page 311, there is “tightness” in her face when she makes an excuse for not being around, and this is Cassian’s POV.

Page 602, again Cassian’s POV: “Cassian’s heart strained at the pain etching deep into Lucien’s face as he tried to hide his disappointment and longing. Elain only shrank further into herself, no trace of that new-found boldness to be seen.”

Any conjecture about why she reacted that way is 100% pure speculation. 

She could be feeling what Lucien feels because of the bond, and from what Cassian says it’s not a pleasant feeling. 

She could be unsure of what Lucien expects of her. 

She could be repulsed by him.

She could have such strong feelings that she shrinks because she has a difficult time hiding them (and she’s usually really good at hiding them). 

She could feel such an intense pull towards him that she physically withdraws. 

We literally do not know!!!

To me, it mirrors Wings and Embers when Nesta and Cassian were attracted to one another and he licked her neck, then she kicked him in the balls. I mean we literally have examples of this with the other mated couples where they are drawn together but still turn away from one another. However, we also got to see feysand and nessian one-on-one, from their own POV. We haven’t had that with elucien yet so any argument that says the above (she’s not interested, they never interact, etc.) has no basis in what we know. 

What we do know is that she hasn’t rejected the bond. Whatever those reasons are, Elain could have rejected the bond a thousand times over by now, but she hasn’t. I actually don’t think she runs from her problems, at least not all the time. I know that people keep arguing that, but I’m not convinced. I’ll make a separate post about that. 

Hell, Lucien could have rejected the bond a thousand times over by now!!!! Elain isn’t the only one who can do that, right?! And why would he choose to let it remain, when this pull is having such an effect on him? When Rhys said that it can make people go crazy if it’s not consummated? Like? Lucien has agency in this too, and of the two of them Lucien has a much larger stake in not letting this continue. 

There is a year of potential interactions between them that we have zero evidence of and so claiming that they haven’t happened is like one of the priestesses saying that the sky doesn’t exist because they never see it.

My final point is that I think that we haven’t gotten this information because it’s endgame, because it will get its own book and become fully developed when it’s not filtered through other characters’ perspectives.

Okay my actual actual final point is that idgaf how Az plays into all of this because she can want to kiss him in that one scene, and everything I said would still be true. I think you’re right that they can find comfort in one another because he rescued her (and he also rescued Gwyn) and because he was trying to put her at ease in acomaf (because it was his job), and Az intentionally made himself seem unthreatening. Elain doesn’t feel the same pressure or expectation from Az as there is from Lucien, so yeah, she feels more comfortable around him. She can smile blandly and he can say “no Elain can’t do that” and it doesn’t challenge anything about their lives.

-fin-

[bookofmirth]

If SJM announced the el/riel book would you read it? And how do you think the eluciens/gwynriels would react? Some people are pretty new to the fandom and I think they should be more open to their ship not sailing you know? I mean, I'd love LOVE a Gwynriel book but I'm prepared for both scenarios (I was a chaolaena back then and now I love rowaelin so I trust SJM to make me fall for any couple she wants LMAO)

If it were clear that that's the direction it were going, I just wouldn't read.

There is a slight possibility I would rage-read, but I just have far fewer fucks these days and don't want to waste them on something I'd hate. Before acosf came out I was like you, and I could have gotten down with it. I assumed sjm could make me ship it, if it came to that. Now, after reading Az's POV and having all my reasons for disliking it confirmed, and how the fandom has behaved? Fuck that lol

I do agree with you that people should be open to whatever the author wants - IF and ONLY if that experience is still enjoyable.

Ultimately, this is something we are reading and spending time on for fun. If I got pissed that cazriel never happened and rage quit, who is that hurting? I never read her Catwoman book and I'm meh on the next Crescent City book. I don't think that we owe an author anything if we don't think we will enjoy what they have created, for any reason.

This does make me think of a weird thing happening lately - that the fandom doesn't seem to understand why fandom exists. It's turned into a contest to see who will be right in canon terms. And idgaf? That's not the point lmao!!!! I don't ship elucien because I think it will be canon. I ship it because I like it. I don't ship e*riel because I really, really don't like it. It's not canon right now, and becoming canon wouldn't make me like it more. See: lysaedion. Canon and I hate it.

In terms of the fandom, and this is based on the people that I talk to on a regular basis, a lot of people wouldn't read it. I think that gwynriels might read it, since that is a newer ship, but elucien has been around since before e*riel. So there is more at stake there, and we'd see people quitting the series. There is a lot of overlap though, so likely people would just leave!

Luckily, I doubt we will have to worry about that. :)

[bookofmirth]

i think we all read sjm for the characters, not the plot, putting that aside, yeah, it's obvious that in acowar she set up the next books that were not hinted at before.

as for mor and az tho, i don't really know what sjm was thinking, bc when i first read acomaf (2016?) we all shipped moriel, but looking back, they had 500 years to solve their issues and didn't. maybe mor is eris' mate and sjm was planning to have that be what stopped mor from being w az? and then she was called out for the lack of rep and decided to make mor sapphic? i don't really know and maybe i never will. i love sapphic mor tho, and i'm glad that sjm chose to have ff rep (bc usually female authors tend to chose mm every fucking time).

also, i can see that in acowar sjm started building up the azriel x elain x lucien conflict. and I'm a firm believer that the next 3 books she sold were nesta, elain and mor, but that's just speculation.

my guess is, with the hints we've been getting since acowar, next book is elain, azriel and lucien pov (bc i know about marketing and this is the perfect way to get both eluciens and elriels to buy the book), and then we'll see what happens.

now, emerie was introduced in acofas and she will be mor's love interest, that's for sure. as for gwyn, we don't know when sjm came up with her, but since there weren't crumbs (that i could find at least), maybe it was during acosf. that doesn't mean she won't get her book though.

i just want sjm to have an interview when the last acotar book is out and spill the tea like she did with tog😭😭

There are definitely clues in acomaf that something was rotten in the state of moriel, but if the issue was that Mor is fundamentally different than we understood her to be, then she needs to stay that way for the next two books. We know she’s gay! Maybe sjm did have another reason to make that not happen, idk. Maybe it was never her intention - perhaps she never intended it to become a thing and just didn’t know *why* it wouldn’t become a thing yet. Then once she did, she threw the queerness out there like a “here’s the explanation!” without then thinking about how that should change the way we and the characters interact with her from that point on. I, too, doubt that we’ll ever get the answers we actually want.

Personally, I also appreciate that Mor is queer. From a writing standpoint, wtf. It was fine when all we had was acowar. It’s not longer fine with me when we have acofas and acosf and no whisper of it since.

I really wish that the next full length books would be Elain and Mor, because tbh I don’t want to read about Az being toxic. I had enough of that having to read Chaol’s POV. I only read ToD once, but I remember being genuinely uncomfortable until he and Nesryn broke up because he was treating her like shit. I don’t want that experience again! Idgaf how much I used to like Az, or how intriguing he is as a character (because he is, I just.... don’t really care about him like I care about Elain, Gwyn, Lucien, and Mor). 

TBH I really like that idea though, of the next book being a split between Az, Elain, and Lucien? Because then tbh, everyone would be happy, at least initially. I don’t like the idea of it being a love triangle - not even, considering Mor and Gwyn it’s more like a love pentagon. I would totally enjoy that if we just knew right away that it was going to be elucien and gwynriel in the end because like I said, even though I theorized that he and Elain could be a thing before they all get their HEA elsewhere, I don’t want to see that happening on the page! He’s not in a place for a healthy relationship and so I 100% don’t want to see him taking out his shit on Elain, or on Gwyn, à la Chaol! 

Good point about Gwyn and there not being crumbs. I’ve seen people suggest that she only exists to make people doubt el*iel which is GROSS I’m sorry, but can this wonderful, intelligent, adorable, lovely female character exist for reasons other than to just fuck with the readers who ship that one ship??? 😅 wtf Let’s just ignore her entire character development and arc in the whole book. She’s really only important for what she does or doesn’t mean for a ship. 🙄

Maybe we will get our wish and she’ll explain all these decisions later on. Even better, maybe she won’t have to because it will make sense! I’ll hold out hope mostly because I’m stubborn.