#i'd love to know how alicent feels about that line because it does add a human element to otto

[navree]

Happy weekend!

I wanted to ask what you make of Otto comparing Alicent to his wife. I definitely see the manipulation behind it, especially knowing that Alicent was close to her mother given that’s one of the main reasons she goes and prays at the sept.

But there’s also something about Otto standing up and staring Daemon down when he brings up his deceased wife and something about how he compares Alicent to her mother when she’s standing up to him at certain points.

And now that I think about, maybe this adds a bit more bite to Rhaenyra lying on her mother’s grave. At that point both Rhaenyra and Otto have used her mother to manipulate her.

Thank you, I hope you enjoy your weekend!

Thanks for the well wishes anon! Weekend's gonna be busy cuz I've got transfer application deadlines coming up and that's always A Lot to do, but I hope your's is more relaxing than mine!

I do definitely see it as a manipulation tactic, a lot of what Otto does is manipulation cuz he just appears to be a manipulative dude (honestly, no shade on him for that I appreciate it), but I do think it was something primarily driven by emotion. We don't know a whole lot about Otto as a person, his thoughts and feelings and emotions, but what we do know for certainty is that he dearly loves his wife and his children. The bit where Daemon brings up his wife is a clear example of this, because Otto in general is a pretty even keeled person (we later see him responding measuredly to Gwayne getting injured and being a reassuring figure for Alicent in that) but this one comment gets a rise out of him and he's clearly fighting the urge to absolutely deck Daemon. He, like Alicent, is very affected by this loss, and there can even be an insinuation that he never fully recovered from it, as he never remarried even though over twenty years passed and there was likely some expectation that such a high profile nobleman would remarry even though he already had sons.

When it comes to why he said that to Alicent, I see it as twofold. One, Otto and Alicent have this dynamic by the time this line is said that's almost that of a wife and husband than that of a father and daughter. I think it was @b-rainlet who pointed out that they're the ones who kinda slot into the role of "mom and dad" for Alicent's kids at times (when Criston's not fulfilling his "I'm not the stepdad I'm the dad who stepped up" obligations), and the way that they interact with each other in episode 7 and episode 9 almost reads as partners than as a man and his child. So when Alicent isn't reacting subserviently to him, as a Westerosi daughter should, but openly talking back to him and standing up for her kids, he likely does think a lot of his wife, of the role she played in his life when she was alive and likely any talking back she did regarding their own children. There's also the fact that Alicent might be very much like her mother, in both personality and looks, sometimes kids take a lot more after one parent than the other (case in point, I am much more like my dad in temperament and I'm a dead ringer for my paternal great aunt in looks and I clearly got nearly everything genetically from my dad's side of the family), and Alicent might be approaching the age her mother was when she died. And I think he remarked on it, almost in spite of himself, because of point two: he was feeling emotional.

Otto loved his wife. And we also know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Otto loves Alicent. He's hurt her, he's put her in bad situations and he hasn't always done right by her, but he loves her. He understands her emotional needs and her psychological issues like her anxiety and he does, in his own way, do his best to try and alleviate them (like that reassurance at the joust and honestly, that scene between him and Alicent in ep 2 always read more to me like Otto is just sad his daughter feels the need to self harm than anything else), and even beyond his ambition, a huge driving force for his wanting Aegon on the throne is because he is genuinely worried for Alicent's future. I don't remember what exactly the wording was, but Rhys said that part of the conversation Alicent and Otto have in episode 5 is motivated by the fact that Otto loves her and is scared for her future. Which makes sense, he and Alicent are close, and they're both clearly strongly affected by the death of his wife/her mom. And with all that, we need to remember that Otto's line to Alicent about her mother comes on the heels of Alicent pulling away from him, Alicent saying that their hearts were never one. Otto is a widower, and a father who is right now losing his daughter (due to the consequences of his own choices, yes, but that's still what's happening). And in that moment, I think he was just overcome with emotion, not just at how alike Alicent might be to her mother and what their relationship is, but also the fact that he feels he's lost them both.

(I know there's a more incestuous reading, given the shifting in the dynamics between him and Alicent and also that this show in general is open to a LOT of incestuous readings, but I have a mild headache right now and don't have the cognitive ability to go into that in too much detail other than to say that I see it and I do find it an interesting read.)

It likely does add some bite to Rhaenyra's whole "I swear to you on the memory of my mother" thing, but whereas Rhaenyra was out and out lying and using Alicent's feelings on dead parents as express manipulation to get an outcome she wants, Otto's just trying to control the situation and try to turn it around in his favor, which might be more forgivable in Alicent's head, especially since a lot more time has passed since her mother's passing at this point. And it's also possible that the situation itself will be forgivable because of following events. Alicent's about to go through a huge trauma, she's going to be physically attacked and threatened with further violence in her own room, she's going to watch a close companion (the bedmade Blood and Cheese strangled to make sure to tie up all loose ends) and her own grandson die in front of her eyes, and of course have to deal with the psychological ramifications of the way it happened and how it affected Helaena, as well as having to be a support system to Aegon and the other two kids as well (the book is explicit that Maelor was basically given over to Alicent's care entirely after that night because of Helaena's mental state). And when you go through something like, it doesn't matter how old you are, sometimes you just need your parent to be with you and support you and help you and comfort you.

[lemonisntreal]

My thoughts on Sing: Thriller! [finally]

I just want to vomit out some of the things on my mind because ohhh my god, do I have THOUGHTS-

Also! Link here to the short, for the people who want / need it 👍

NO WAY

THE BASTARD LIVES???

THE MIKE FANS WERE ACTUALLY RIGHT????

It wasn't just copium!

Kinda off topic, but this is getting me thinking on how different sized animal's seats are priced. Because they only grabbed one ticket I think, so I think they're literally sharing a seat [WHICH IS CUTE]. But does this mean that bigger animals need to buy more than one ticket? Or are all the seats just ridiculously big? Or am I crazy?

Also thinking of that one scene in Spongebob where Plankton gets sat on by Bubble Bass 😭

Tiny blurry Mike hehe looks like found footage

RAHHHHH

RAHHHHHHHH

Me when I see my fav for 2 seconds with zero speaking lines

Nana is eating also holy shit

EATING 👹

Also Eddie guiding her by the hand is sweet, I love their relationship so much aaywusjhisajhajk

He has such an obviously better relationship with her than he does his actual parents and I'm eating it upppppp

The "How hard can it be to fix a stupid tire anyway???" line was so aggressive, I'm taking this as character development !

She's an actually amazing actor in-universe and I love that

Meena Sweep

Also this set is clean as fuckkk- also a lot more realistic, but still very not LMAO

Also he's DOING A JIG AAA

The crunchy version is for my enjoyment specifically

HOLY SHIT I WAS REFERENCED /j

Also also.

Both GMO and Alice in Wonderland were really short plays from what we see, but I actually do think that this isn't how it actually goes in canon. When they're on the bus in Sing 2, the script looks pretty thick for one. And two- why would anyone pay for tickets for 4 minutes of show?

Like it just makes sense, you gotta understand my reasoning.

They couldn't put the whole 2 hours of play in the actual films, but I like to believe that's actually how it goes

That there's some story and depth to it as well [💀]

Reference. For later.

THE WAY HIS FACE SCRUNCHES DUDE DUDEUDUED

Meena Gunter and Ash are absolutely partying in the back bro

I wonder how often Meena finds herself in cars. Because like there's size, but also we know she just takes the bus everywhere. I don't think her family has a car, they all feel like they utilize public transit instead

Cars that are modified for bigger and smaller animals are probably more expensive and not mass-manufactured either

Not just height but weight limit is also something that needs to be kept in mind. Elephants are like a few thousand pounds.

I think it's just easier to have modified public transit rather than modified individual cars for that kind of load. I bet public transit has way more funding in the Sing universe because of this need too. Because there's also Rhinos, and Hippos, and Giraffes-

I'm getting lost in the sauce again.

HER NOSE SCRUNCH

She was AT that door. First one there, bouncing with excitement. Adorable. I wish Clay had speaking lines with her in this AGH

REFERENCE.

girl what the fuck are you doing here, your ass was NOT invited ‼️

The Infection AU would go CRAZY

Somebody needs to make that rightttt now, actually

I'm giving it some thought right now and how with a few tweaks this could be cool. Like I'd definitely make it so there were different phases, like the MLP AUs. And I'd keep the hivemind thing definitely, because I think that adds an extra terrifying aspect to it

Probably make the ooze stuff look more messy, eyes would be leaking the stuff, mouth.

Idk I'm just spitballing LMAO

The dog from under the table is actually terrifying

Rare sighting of angry Meena

ALSO WHY-

I have a complaint.

Why were they dancing.

For a full minute. With nothing.

No singing. Just instrumental. It dragged on for so insanely long. Like that's my one complaint about this short, is that the pacing is just absolute dogshit after they all get possessed. You can give me a Thriller reprise without making it look super awkward and boring. Why couldn't this have been a cool chase scene instead? Like actually keep up that tension you established?? Because like Crawly and Buster are just STANDING there now, and it's just like-

And then the actual chase is over so fast

Man.

HE'S SO STUPID LOOKING I'M GONNA CRY [positive]

the Borb....... [Buster orb]

I hate the "it was all a dream!" trope but I can't really be mad

I saw it coming from a mile away, and I'm honestly glad because it means that this isn't canon and we don't have to deal with random zombie shenanigans in the actual lore

Or maybe not because Crawly was literally possessed at the end but whatever. Not canon.

My final thoughts are that this was really solid! I feel well fed and very happy to get some new content of the sillies. I will most likely be drawing lots of Thriller stuff because WOW were some of those shots pretty. Overall, critically? C+ short [mostly due to that minute of almost nothing happening]. But my enjoyment level puts the grade at a B+ for me so [B is for Biased].

[cbrownjc]

So it really seems like Armand is Alice - or Daniel's lost memories of Armand have been conflated with his memories of Alice, or something. I'd be really interested to know your thoughts on how much Louis knows? We see malicious triumph from him but (I think) not really an awareness that this specific memory has heavy shades of Armand in it, more like he was happy to weaponise any terrible memory of Daniel's that came to hand.

But how could Louis not know? If Armand and Daniel were together in the past I bet Louis knew about it and probably still does?

(Also your Tumblr is amazing and fascinating and ILU)

Hello! I'm glad you like my Tumblr and thank you for the amazingly kind words! *hugs* 💕

So, Armand & Daniel and Louis. Now, my gut feeling at the moment is that Louis knows a lot about what happened between Armand and Daniel. But possibly not everything.

Or, more directly, I do think it's possible that Louis doesn't fully know how serious it really got between Armand and Daniel; that Armand and Daniel actually truly, deeply, and sincerely fell in love with each other. I may be wrong about that (as I've only had a chance to watch the episode once so far), but there are some little things that are making me think that for now.

The main reason is that we now have an answer for why Louis has called Daniel "our boy" before. (Which he hasn't done this season yet, but I'm sure it's coming.) IMO the reason was indirectly revealed in the scene when Real Rashid brought out the pictures . . . and what Louis and Armand both said about who some of the pictures were of: which is that they were pictures of young human men that were kept with Louis and Armand -- in their company -- for a period of time.

These two -- Louis and Armand -- would basically add a third into their relationship at one time or another. And that they did so a LOT more than once. And that it was something that was always initiated by Louis -- probably because it was something that was Louis' idea to do in the first place, back when they first did so with whomever the first young man they pulled in was.

We don't know how long these young men were kept with them, but I don't think it's wrong to guess that some were kept for rather long periods. It was Louis who would draw these young men into them . . . then some would be drained dry at some point if they weren't just let go.

And Daniel was basically set to be the next in the long line of young men that Louis and Armand would do this with. That is what was initially happening that night at Polynesian Mary's. With Louis, once again, being the one to draw the young man -- in this case, Daniel -- in.

But what made everything different this time -- and what made Daniel different from all the young men that had come before him wrt this -- was that first interview. And I think Assad hinted in an interview during the press tour as to why Armand steps in and saves Daniel's life when Louis attacks Daniel. And that reason is that during that interview, Daniel is able to understand and connect with Louis in a way that Armand hasn't been able to during all their years together. And so becomes fascinated by Daniel because of that.

And I don't think I'm guessing that Armand never became fascinated in such a way with any of the other young men that Louis lured into a triad with them. (Or, if Armand ever did, it was a very fleeting thing).

So, I think in this instance, the third that was lured in by Louis actually ended up fully capturing Armand's attention and, eventually, his heart. And while, as with all the other young men they had done this with before, Daniel was very much "our boy" for both him and Armand in Louis' eyes . . . there were deeper emotions that were growing between Armand and Daniel during that time that Louis just didn't really see -- or that maybe Armand kept Louis from seeing.

Because remember, Armand is much more skilled at the Mind Gift than Louis is. And Louis, very possibly, might have still been under the veil that -- in the books -- his mind gets clouded over by Armand after they first leave Paris.

So there are many reasons Louis may not have fully noticed everything that was happening between Armand and Daniel during however long Daniel was with them. (And, IMO, it is very much looking like it was at least 12 years, which was the length of the whole Devil's Minion saga -- before Daniel was finally turned -- in the book QotD).

Louis knows some things I feel sure of. Like, Louis knows Armand and Daniel had sex because . . . yeah. Armand and Louis weren't just pulling in young human men to be a third with them to play cards or something. 😏 But I'm not sure that Louis knows about the full emotional depth (and heartbreak) of everything that went down between Armand and Daniel.

So yeah, Louis knows about Armand & Daniel -- because he was the one to draw Daniel in to be a third with him and Armand in the first place. But I don't think Louis knows just how deeply and emotionally serious it really got between them. And maybe it's mostly because Armand just kept that part of it from Louis.

As to the Alice = Armand thing and if Louis knows that. . . again I'm not sure. It is one reason I kind of still sort of lean toward the idea that Alice is a real person, but many things about her have been merged with Armand in Daniel's mind. And Louis doesn't actually know which is which.

However . . . Louis could very well know how serious it got between Armand and Daniel, and that Alice isn't real and just really is Armand; and Louis just did what he did -- emotionally going in on Daniel like that -- because Louis really just wanted to hurt Daniel in that way because Daniel had hurt him in the same way just by asking about Lestat like that. Louis does have a very sadistic streak in him, I think that has been very well-established. And it would just be the simplest answer too for it all as well.

[pinkomcranger]

About the white asshole line: it's not as left field as people think tbh There's a similar line in the first AW game from Alice (in the DLC, Wake's version of her since it's all in his head). She uses the term 'while male melodrama'. This is literally Wake's own mind so he knows a lot of stuff he put her through was from a perspective of a person who has a lot of advantages. Back to Saga, that line aligns with the racism we are hinted she dealt with in her field and STILL deals with in present day. Mulligan and Thornton are racist af (haven't seen anyone discuss this yet) to her even if they seem pleasant at the start of the game. Not entirely either, when Saga and Casey meet Mulligan he automatically assumed Casey is the lead agent. He apologizes about it but there's an air that neither him or Thorton take Saga seriously. They barely speak directly to her and instead more to Casey unless she directly speaks to either. It's that seemingly benign, passive racism that is more toxic sometimes, especially in a work environment. In her face they show some surface level, thinly veiled respect but behind her back they called her a 'stuck up FBI bitch'. Part of the horror story adds she let her daughter drown so they doubt her work entirely. And concerning the Bookers, there's this passive aggressive comment where Thorton says the case of the murder of Nightingale would've been solved if the FBI wasn't involved. Thorton says something like "they stick with their own". Now, this could be seen as city folk stick with their own but the Bookers are black, this was purposeful imo. I honestly liked how Remedy incorporated this in such a realistic way. Some could dispute this and say "that's circumstantial/reaching" but lets not forget both Mulligan and Thorton are literally the bastard law enforcement type that kills are the drop of a pin. They killed that woman while enthralled with this feeling of power (referencing the page about it) and threw her body in the well to hide it, blaming the death on each other at first before they decide it's neither of their faults and hide the evidence. They become taken being so twisted in their dark ways. They are bad guys, I'd argue misogynistic too. And lets add a layer of actual parallels to rl racism to the mix here now. If she dealt with that in Bright Falls on her first day I can only imagine the assholes she had to deal with climbing her way up in the FBI, in life in general. This is why her mother is a strong foundation, they are not only close because they loved each other but she made sure she'd be strong. Parents who have mixed kids (black kids especially) know what they will deal with. Maybe even a meta thing like Spiderverse, adding the backlash into the story. Which she did and still does get from gamerz (tm). People STILL bring up that "race swap" from the Quantum Break trailer which is honestly just early concept stuff. Saga is written so well and carefully that even her problems outside the pace of the story seems to have been considered. So while it does seem random and may make people uncomfortable it's purposeful. Remedy really captured this aspect with Saga without making it her personality or the core part of her (like she just there for black trauma, so glad they did not do that and made her a character with experiences). Let's not forget Saga's field of work. We know it's predominantly white. Her saying 'another white asshole' says more about her experiences than anything else. And being at her lowest where her insecurities, doubts, fears thrive it says something about her agency and how sometimes it can feel taken from her based on her skin tone, gender, so forth. Sorry for the long ask! It's just, this line definitely does not feel like it's random to me. I was just shocked I heard it but the game lays down the ground work for it to be said. It's as subtle as the worst kind of racism though imo

I'm VERY interested by imagined!Alice's line because while we don't know if she actually feels that way, we see Alan can acknowledge that he KNOWS how lucky he is by virtue of being a white man, it might not be something he thinks about daily, but he's admitting he's aware of it.

You're right in regards to what Saga deals with in her work environment and most likely her daily life. It sucked for me that Mulligan and Thorton ended up being racist, misogynistic assholes because they truly just seemed like the goofy, slightly dimwitted small-town cops. I think maybe because I haven't actually played the game yet (shame on me, I know! I just managed to get it last month and haven't had the time to dedicate to it like I want) that I kind of brushed Mulligan and Thorton's behavior towards Saga off until we learned their true nature.

But we see how they're more comfortable deferring to Casey over Saga, and we can even see that Casey is NOT the least bit pleased with it. Saga clearly picks up on it, and it's one of the reasons she chooses to leave them with Casey. She can handle the Bookers easier, because yes, they ARE black, she KNOWS they're going to open up to her far easier than if it had been Casey. Do we get reflections of their shared experiences? Not really, but the Bookers weren't going to trust the FBI regardless, Saga being a black woman lowered their defenses a little.

You can argue that she was better suited for talking to the witnesses because it's just her personality, Casey was dry and sarcastic from jump while Saga was the opposite. But did the Bookers know that? Absolutely not. They were less cautious with Saga, Ed especially. They weren't hiding anything to be malicious, they just wanted their own things to be successful.

Hearing Mulligan and Thorton's true thoughts about Saga really tore me up. Not even so much at the fact they felt that way, but because they didn't have the guts to say it to her face. You don't hear that venom directed towards Casey at all, even though he's the EXACT same stuck-up government agent who's worse to them than Saga.

But it's what black people tend to see when dealing with the police force. Condescending, impatient, better-than, bitter, power-hungry and drunk on their self-importance and position of authority. There's a REASON they were made Taken when the Koskela brothers couldn't, but that's really neither here nor there.

Seeing what she had to deal with in Bright Falls from two guys that were SUPPOSED to be on her side and help her is very telling and it made me even more interested in her backstory. How many people actually believed in her when she joined the FBI? Who dismissed her out of pocket simply because of the color of her skin and her gender? You can even get a hint of her past simply by her questioning Casey on why he wants her to be the lead on the case instead of jumping in straight away.

And that's to her PARTNER, a man she’s known and trusted for years, who clearly never had a problem with her being a black woman, or there's no way in hell they'd have the kind of relationship that they do.

Freya being such a strong influence for Saga was evident in her card to her daughter. She knew the struggles Saga was going to face by going after what she wanted to do and never discouraged her. I'll always be bummed over Freya lying to Saga about her being a Seer though. I know it was to try and protect her from even more shit she didn't deserve to go through over something she had no control over. But it almost felt like a vote of no-confidence. And there's no feeling in the world like thinking your mother might not believe in you.

I'm still VERY annoyed at ANYBODY bringing up the "Return" concept from Quantum Break JUST to say Saga was race-swaped when almost NOTHING from that teaser made it to the main game proper. Sam and the team took all of that and flipped it on its head. That was clear the second FBI Alex Casey stepped into the background instead of being in the lead.

I love the fact we don't get the "another white asshole telling me what to do" until the end of the game, and it's when Saga is at her lowest point, when the Dark Presence is trying to do its best to break her down. But like I tend to bring up, Alan says it can't create something out of nothing. Meaning those doubts and resentment were there for a LONG time, and it VERY easily could have been her entire personality.

The fact that it wasn't showed how much thought Remedy put into creating Saga and I appreciate it so much. She wasn't her trauma, she wasn't her anger, she was the exact OPPOSITE of that. She faced her problems with determination and PUNS! Even when shitty things were going on, her mind wandered to humor "More like "Underwatery" I'll have to tell Casey that one later." Speaks volumes about her character.

I think that's one of the reasons she fought SO hard against the horror story. OBVIOUSLY her main motivation was saving Logan, and then Casey. But she wasn't about to let her agency be taken from her like she's been fighting against it for years. She was the one that was going to be in control, she was going to tell this story, and Alan himself (some of that as him being the face of the Dark Presence for her) "no, fuck you. Another white asshole is NOT going to tell me how to live MY life. You're not using my doubts and fears against me to take my family from me"

And she did it, she did what the white man couldn't do on his own in 13 years. How am I NOT supposed to root for her? How could I NOT want to know more about her history? There's no way I can look at Saga Anderson and go, well her story is done, there's nothing else to be written for her. As I said, I do love FBI Casey, but he's practically a blank slate compared to Saga, I could live without him because, for me, outside of his personality (I'm also grumpy and sarcastic), I cannot relate to him.

Despite not being a wife and mother in the FBI, I CAN relate to Saga. I can understand her struggles and pain. I feel her love for her family, I can relate to her love and disappointment towards her mother. The struggle of being a black woman in a world that still caters to white men and the pushback she gets just from existing. I understand her in a way I never could with Alan Wake. I understood and related to his issues as a writer struggling with inspiration. But the thing with that is Alan didn't HAVE to struggle like that, he could have chosen, at any time, to stop being a writer and do something else.

Saga couldn't choose to change the color of her skin. Her challenges would be with her simply because of how she's perceived at first glance. She'll never have the advantages of Alan and Casey in that regard.

I'm sorry for the long answer! But I LOVED your ask, and that's why it took me a hot minute to answer it. I had to get my thoughts in order and give this the response I felt like it deserved. So thank you for letting me see your thoughts towards Saga! ❤️

[panlight]

How do you think Bella and Edward would have coped/worked out if Bella did decide to stay human and in a relationship with Edward? They couldn't be dating in public after Bella aged too much or she'd look like a creep, so that would add pressure. Would Bella even stick with Edward after a few years of maturity? If they DID stay together, what would their cover story be? Would they turn into platonic roommates (at least on Bella's side)?

SM writing it? They'd work it out somehow. They'd still be madly in love when she's an old lady and it would be the Height of Romance and he'd be telling her how beautiful she is when she's 90. They probably wouldn't go out in public much and on the rare times they do it's like "oh what a nice young man to take his grandma to a bookstore" and they're both mortified but it's True Love, okay? Bella eventually poses as like, Esme's mom in the family cover story and it's weird for everyone but she's been part of the family for decades at this point so they love her too. As she gets older the vampire issues comes up again--it's still on the table, she'll be frozen forever at the age she is now, but it's an option. SM would probably have her eventually take it, become a vampire, and WOW for some reason she looks barely 30?! Maybe all vampires turned in their 80s end up looking 30, we've never seen this before since the oldest known lady vampire is Mary who was turned at 28! Maybe it's because of LOVE, who can say? Still kind of an awkward visual age gap, but if Edward dresses older and Bella dresses younger they can make it work. And they unlived Happily Ever After, the end! (Or, realistically, another hybrid pregnancy happens by accident at some point and Bella is turned to save her and Edward is terrified she'll hate him for it because she wanted to stay human but wow, weird, not only does she suddenly love being a mom she also loves being a vampire? Amazing!)

But see I like bittersweet, so I'd go with something like they stay together for awhile, but Edward can sense that Bella's feeling trapped and outgrowing him, so he eventually leaves. Hopefully he's more honest this time than he was in New Moon and Bella's mature enough (and secretly relieved) that she realizes he's right and lets him go. And then she goes on to live her life but on her death bed he comes back and it's heart-wrenching and sad and beautiful. He's still young and perfect but she's lived a life and had experiences he will never be able to and she dies in his arms.

Like, I don't know guys, I think there are two moves you can make with vampires: horror/evil or bittersweet/sad. This vampire fairytale stuff just doesn't work for me. As monsters they're inherently not a happily ever after concept. If they are human enough to have beautiful loves stories then they (in my mind) would have to struggle with the whole endless eternity and drinking blood stuff to at least some degree. And if they truly don't care about any of that at all and LOVE being a vampire then like, they've got to be amoral monsters. Those are the two lanes that make sense. Even Emmett feels bad when he slips up; even Alice tries not to kill people and tries to keep Jasper in line. They're not wallowing in angst but it's not fairytale bliss for them despite them being mostly chill about the vampire stuff. But especially in the Twilight mythology with the painful thirst and no sleep and can't feed without killing/turning. That's some dark stuff I just don't see a feasible happily ever after here without chucking all morality out the window (which could be interesting! But not what SM would do with Bella/Edward).

[bitchfromtheseventhhell]

Also, on another note, I'd like to ask what do you think of show!Alicent, for far she's very sympathetic e I'm not sure if it was Milly ou Emily who tried to add a subtext of them being each other's first love. I'm wondering how it will play out the complete end of any kinship (obviously because of the conflict of their children and Ottos' scheming) but also how she'll react to having these asshole kids. Like in Cersei 'I'm kind blind to Joffrey's cruelty and incapability'. What do you think?

oh i love show alicent! i think the best creative decision they could have possibly made for this show was to have made them best friends/quiet gal pals who don't know they're gal pals. it can, will, and does make everything that happens between the two of them that much more visceral and since rhaenyra's war is ostensibly with aegon, it's as much with alicent (if not moreso). so yeah, give me that friends to enemies please, make it hurt so bad and so good all at once. i think that emily's done a fabulous job with the role, and can't wait to see how she appears post-timeskip.

i think alicent is going to be a very different queen than cersei in this show. for one thing, i think she isn't going to be fighting for her father's approval (even while also being used as his pawn) or for her own legitimacy in her own terms the way that cersei was. i think she'll be fascinating and rich and deep, but i think there will be some very key differences. (for years, i've seen people talking about the rhaenyra-cersei parallels far more than the alicent-cersei parallels. i'm gonna be interested to see how and if the show plays those because i do think those have the capacity to be fascinatingly striking.) that said, i don't think this is going to be to diminish alicent's richness as a character or her powers as a queen. i just think that the way she engages with the throne, her children, and her concept of power is going to have a lot of differences from cersei's.

re: the end of their kinship, i saw some post (idr if i reblogged it) about how the fact that rhaenyra lied about daemon while swearing by her dead mother is probably gonna be the kicker here, and honestly? it's such a beautiful knife to twist for both of them, given how alicent is haunted by her own mother's death, how she helped rhaenyra through her grief. it's crossing a line (and circles back to my point about how aemma's death is the whole point) in such a way that it feels very "fuck you, the dragon you rode in on, and everything you stand on" sort of way.

(aka i'm really excited for tonight's episode!!!)

[fillorian-pocketwatch]

The Makings and Fate of Quentin Coldwater: What Were the Writers Thinking?

Trigger warnings: Quentin Coldwater, seasons 4 and (briefly) 5, mentions of suicide/suicidal ideation, outdated ideas about the purity of women.

General warnings: Spoilers for the show and the books.

Buckle up, darlings, and my apologies in advance: this is a rough ride, and I don’t recommend reading it if you aren’t in the right headspace for it right now.

I hope that those who do read it might drop some LGBTQIA+ positive book/tv recommendations in the comments as a pick-me-up for others. I will add some myself if I can think of some good ones.

So as it turns out, I ran into something entirely by accident: the inspiration behind the character of Quentin Coldwater.

I knew that Eliot and his "will-they-or-won't-they" dynamic with Quentin in the Magicians books were both borrowed from Evelyn Waugh's Brideshead Revisited (Grossman has said so himself)--

but I didn't realize there was an actual preexisting character Grossman borrowed from for Q:

Quentin Compson, from The Sound and the Fury.

This explains so much for me. So much.

I ran across information about the character the other day while doing something completely unrelated (looking up some other book if I recall correctly), and when I saw the similarity of the two names and then learned about the first Quentin’s fate, I thought, could this be LG’s inspiration?

Further research revealed that yes, Lev has said as much in articles. And even if he hadn’t, the fact that he has written extensively *about* TSatF online makes it a relatively easy conclusion to draw.

While the two Quentins aren't actually much alike (at least on the surface; I haven't read TSatF yet, just in-depth summaries/analyses of it)--other than the fact that they are both mentally ill over-achiever college students, are preoccupied with the idea of another world (the world as they each wish it was), and constantly associated with symbolic clocks and watches--Quentin Compson's fate explains everything for me in terms of how to understand Quentin Coldwater's series-four fate.

Quentin Compson ultimately kills himself in the famous classic novel; he does so by drowning after jumping off the Anderson Memorial Bridge in Boston, Massachusetts. Today there is a plaque there to commemorate the character:

In the Faulkner novel, Quentin associates the smell of honeysuckle with his obsessions over his sister’s purity--an ideal he comes to feel let down by after she loses her virginity and then seems to lose herself further in the company of men he feels are unsuitable.

I can’t help but make a parallel with the “drowned garden” of season 4, episode 12.

Quentin makes the following speech in the drowned garden, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s the closest thing we get to a suicide note:

You know the worst part of getting exactly what you want? When it's not good enough. Then what do you do? If this can't make me happy, then what would? Fillory was supposed to mean something. I was supposed to mean something here. But it's all... it's just... it's random. It's so random that the only way to save my friends is to yell at a fucking plant! Honestly, fuck Fillory for being so disappointing. You know what, maybe I was better off just believing that it was fiction. The idea of Fillory is what saved my life! [laughs.] This promise... that... people like me... [weeping] People like me... Can somehow... Find an escape. There has gotta be some power in that. Shouldn't loving the idea of Fillory be enough?

But the idea of Fillory is not enough, in the end, because the idea of happiness is also not enough. And by the end of his time on the show, that’s all Quentin has: the trappings of happiness (or at least the ones available to him, the ones he thinks might get him there), without the actual emotion.

Maybe he realizes, in the drowned garden, that he is at the end of his rope. Maybe that is where he decides to give up.

That, in my opinion, is why he begins to seem so shut down: it isn’t uncommon for people to distance themselves emotionally as a precursor to suicide (hence Jason being accused of “refusing to act” toward the end of S4).

I think it’s also why he doesn’t stop to wait and see how Eliot is after Margo strikes the Monster with the axes: he has given up on the idea that the things he thinks will make him happy actually will, or that happiness is actually attainable for him in the first place.

Quentin Coldwater drowns not in the fading of honeysuckle; for him it’s peaches and plums. In any case, he is definitely in over his head, and the water that spills out of the mirrors after his death feels like an homage to that literal drowning of his predecessor.

The TM writers found ways, as the show progressed, to tie the books back in to the show; the way they did it, however, was often roundabout to say the least. Their takes on how different plot points should occur, or be interpreted from book to screen, were usually close to abstract. They did do it, in many ways, but theirs was far from a faithful adaptation.

It fits, therefore, that they would tie The Sound and the Fury into S4 the way that it appears they did.

It also tells me something about how blame for their decision can be distributed, because either the showrunners:

a.) really did their research re: Compson and put together that this was the character that inspired Lev

or, as is much more likely, they:

b.) discussed it all with Lev himself--or LG was the one to broach the subject to see what sort of take they could spin.

Whatever the lead-in to the decision, I think three things combined to give them the idea for Q’s fate:

1. Quentin Compson;

2. Alice’s description, in the third book, of watching an old god kill herself to make way for a new world (which was when Umber and Ember emerged);

3. The following lines from The Magician’s Land: “The truly sad thing was that Ember actually wanted to do it. Quentin saw that too: He had come here intending to drown Himself, the way the god before Him had, but He couldn’t quite manage it. He was brave enough to want to, but not brave enough to do it. He was trying to find the courage, longing for the courage to come to Him, but it wouldn’t, and while He waited for it, ashamed and alone and terrified, the whole cosmos was coming crashing down around Him.

Quentin wondered if he would have been brave enough. He would never know. But if Ember couldn’t sacrifice himself, Quentin would have to do it for Him.”

So, it appears, the group of writers (LG included, however actively) apparently decided to take Quentin’s thought from book three and put him in exactly that position: make the choice, or fail to make the choice.

But the need for him to make that choice was never horribly convincing. They were very mistaken if they thought it was. And no matter what, it was ultimately a horrible, damaging idea. It hurt the audience, and it killed the show. The only sacrifice that was made was made in the name of ego and “clever writing” that the writers thought was edgy and risky in some desirable way.

[Quote from vulture.com]

It's not so deep.

What they did, ultimately, was borrow from more than one outdated work, and use those as excuses to do the wrong things re: mental illness and LGBTQIA+ representation:

Evelyn Waugh’s characters fail, once again, to live their lives and desires freely and openly (What a waste to rehash the long-denied dynamic from Brideshead Revisited only to deny it again);

Quentin Compson’s legacy of suicide and hopelessness lives on (and this is made all the more offensive when you learn that Compson’s suicide was based largely on ideas of spoiled purity which were solely the burden of women to uphold).

They took what could have been made right and beautiful and instead used their story to perpetuate the same sad old traditions of queerbaiting and Burying the Gays.

Tragedy is not more profound than happiness (just ask Quentin Coldwater). I'd argue that to make something really beautiful, you need to mend what's broken.

The world is a broken place. It's easy to break things here.

The worst thing they did to Q, by far, was to use the beautiful concept of minor mending against him like it was the fuse on a stick of dynamite: the thing he’d spent his whole life seeking--his specific field, his special skill in the actual real world of magic--was what he used to kill himself. He killed himself by *fixing something.* We need no further evidence that Q had given up hope.

What a terrible message, and what a slap in the face to viewers who put their trust in this atrocious writing.

And they did nothing to redeem themselves after the fact, either. If anything, they made it even worse, somehow:

Eliot, by the end of the show, has even less than he started with.

Eliot, apparently, is us: left without Q, stripped of the comfort of a world we thought we knew. Utterly let down by the writers who had the power to make things different.

I hate to end this on such a terrible note. So let me just say that if you were let down by the show, and you miss Q, you’re far from alone! I see you, and I hear you, and I share your pain.

TM got it all wrong. But I have faith that others will get it right.

And no matter what, in the last book, Quentin lives, and has nothing but a whole world of possibility open up before him.

[thehollowprince]

The Mountain of Ghosts

Another week, another episode. This one dealt with a topic that I know has been on the fandom's mind since the end of season four, so let's just dive into this.

Alice and Eliot - obviously the big part of the episode. This has been on everyone's mind since season one and the possibility of Queliot was a thing. It's been a constant back and forth, one or the other, situation since, and sadly, we all know where most of the fandom landed on that issue. This was a good episode that got to the crux of the issue here, that being Quentin. Not Alice's or Eliot's feelings toward Quentin but rather his feelings toward them.

For years I've stood here and watched the constant screeching of "Quentin loved Eliot more!" or more rarely, (seriously, very rarely), "Quentin loved Alice more!" It got to the point where I firmly believed, and still believe, that it wasn't a matter of actually caring about Quentin at all. I'm not saying that no one actually liked Q, but that was secondary to the main issue of which ship would win in the end. Shipping is a big thing in fandom, but what no one really ever wants to admit is that it's also a big problem in fandom, in that ship wars happen and all some people seem to care about is the validation that comes with watching their ship set sail or another ship sink. That's all I'm going to say about that right now, because honestly the problem with shipping in fandom is a whole other topic waiting to be made, but its relevant to this issue, so let's move on.

Alice and Eliot both loved Quentin, and whether anyone wants to admit it or not, he loved both of them back. It isn't a matter of saying he loved either one of them more, or which one was more valid because no one loves two different people in the same way. Some of the things that Quentin loved about Alice aren't the same things he would have loved about Eliot. And this episode really highlighted that. Eliot and Alice are about as different as you can get, especially when it comes to romance. They both had different approaches to their relationship with Q, and I'm so glad we got to see them resolve their differences. We finally got to see Eliot say to someone else that he and Q loved each other, and have Alice not only acknowledge it but embrace it. She said it best, "what was I going to do? Demand he be less complicated? That he only love one person?" Too often Alice is reduced to this one-dimensional girl who is only defined by her relationship with Quentin, especially by fandom, and this really broke that mold. This was a nice episode for the two of them, to work through their anger and to work together to let go of Quentin... to acknowledge that they couldn't save him. I hope this bond between the two of them keeps building through the rest of the season.

PS: please let Alice wear jeans and pants more often. She looked so much more comfortable than she does in those fetish school girl dresses.

Moving on...

Margo - I'm not sure how I feel about this whole "reclaiming the throne" thing she's got going on. I loved Margo winning the throne by her own merit back in season three, because it worked in that moment. And then last year we had her abandon the throne to save Eliot. When push came to shove, she valued one person over the duty she had as a king to her people. I'm not faulting her for that, because I understand where she was coming from, but she still gave up the throne and it paved the way for Fen to assume the throne.

I can only speak for me, but I thought that was beautiful. Having a Fillorian finally sit on the throne of Fillory felt like a major milestone, and now we're just supposed to believe that Margo gets to be the king because she said so? I didn't like that. That's one of Margo's negative character traits, her entitlement, which brings us to...

Fen - I do not like what they're doing with her so far this season. Who is the sycophantic woman? She admired Margo, of course, but not to the extent of idol worship. This is a woman who was part of the F.U. Fighters, fighting for Fillorian rights in a kingdom always ruled by outsiders. But then the moment Margo's not there, she turns into this incompetent moron, so much so that she and Josh were overthrown because they were waiting for someone else to save them, and I don't like that. That is a complete disservice to the character and the journey she's been on for the previous three seasons.

Also, this whole Josh thing that's going to come between these two women, who have had such respect for each other, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I was one of those (probably the only) who was rooting for Josh and Margo. Were there things I would have changed about it? Of course, but I thought they worked well together and off of one another, and now we have this bullshit. I liked Josh, not just because we shared the same name, but because he was an interesting character that people, especially women, seemed to like, not because of his appearance but because of his personality. And now they've turned him into a quintessential Nice Guy™ who sleeps with his girlfriend's friend instead of figuring out a way to save themselves and Fillory.

I will say that it'll be interesting to see how Fen and Margo repair their friendship after that revelation that Margo legitimately tried to kill her, if they repair it at all.

As for everyone else...

Julia - I know we're working up to something with her and the big catastrophe, so I'm gonna let her lack of a role these past two episodes aside from support slide.

Penny - I really would like to see more of Professor Adoyodi, aside from just him doing research for class. Also, it's sad that they had him mention that "best case scenario for Travelers" is that they just become an Uber for their friends, only to have Julia ask him for a lift...

Like, y'all wrote it, maybe you should pay more attention to it!

And then there's Kady and Fogg. The Magicians is so different then other ensemble shows in that they actually use the ensemble! That being said, characters like Fogg and Kady often end up on the side because, while they're deemed primary characters, they feel more like secondary or tertiary ones. I know I'm not the only one interested in what's going on with the Hedge Witches, but we don't see Kady and what's going on with them unless one of the other "mains" needs something, usually some secret Hedge spell or Kady's fist. Same with Fogg. Brakebills was such a cornerstone for this show, and while the mains left the school (didn't graduate, just left) the institution plays a major role still, as a location if nothing else. Add to that the fact that Penny is a professor there now, and I'd espect to see more of it.

Lastly... the Dark King.

Not to toot my horn or anything, but I'm pretty damn good at predicting turns and plot twists. I can usually spot a villain or antagonist the moment I see them, but that wasn't the case here. Granted, in hindsight I should have seen in with how he was introduced, but I was so stuck on the idea that I "knew" who the Dark King was that I couldn't entertain the possibility that I would be wrong. Though, to be fair, he did have a line about illusion magic, so there's a chance I might still be right. All of that being said, it did feel a little like a cop out. All of our other villains and antagonists have been hinted long before their big reveal, and just having a completely new character shown up and go "Surprise, bitch! I'm the dark king" feels a little off to me. We'll just have to wait and see.

All in all, I'd give this episode a rating of 7.5 out of 10. I know I complained a lot, and that's because, aside from Eliot and Alice's arc, the rest of the episode felt kind of lackluster to me. Here's hoping we pick up the pace the rest of the season.

[navree]

Hello there!

I want to know your opinion about the show version of Aegon, what do you think about it, do like their interpretation of his character? ( with exception of ramsay's stuff they added to his character)

Given by the fact you've read the book what things you want to change about Aegon and things you want to stay the same. I mean I'm curious how you would write aegon if you have given the chance to do so, just going by the vague description of his book character

Hey anon!

Fortunately for you, I have discussed Aegon a lot (because people ask me about him A Lot), so I'll link the posts below, but the long and short of it is that, excluding the "ramsay stuff" as you said, there's a lot that's going on with Aegon that I quite like, I just wish it was intentional writing rather than some subtext, TGC's acting choices, and interpretation.

So with that in mind, by and large I'd keep Aegon the same as we're seeing him thus far, just exclude the stupid bad writing stuff and make it clear that the stuff I do like about him is authorial intent, not just us overanalyzing stuff. I've touched a bit on stuff I'd change and keep if I were writing Aegon here but in how I'd write him if I were in charge, I'd add in a lot more of him being incredibly family oriented.

The book, like with everything it is, is kinda vague about it, but I do think it's important that Aegon be shown, despite his failings and his waywardness and his alcoholism and all his issues (and he does need to have issues, this show would be incredibly boring if it actually was cookie cutter good side vs bad side), to have a deep and unabiding love of family that overrides everything. One of the versions of how Aegon was convinced to accept the crown has it that he really started to get on board with it once it was pointed out to him that his kids would be in serious danger if Rhaenyra and Daemon were ruling, which is remarkably prescient considering Certain Things That Happen Later. It also needs to show up in his relationship with his siblings too (and honestly we just needed so much more of Aegon and Helaena's dynamic I would have loved to see the messy contradiction that comes from a pretty solid older brother/younger sister relationship contrasted with a dysfunctional marriage and what it does for Aegon's character that he physically can't love her That Way but he still loves her cuz they're family), the core actualization of that Alicent line about cuffing each other as they wish at home but defending each other in the world. It's why I love the dinner scene in episode 8 so much, Aemond decides to be petty at people who hurt him and Aegon is 100% on board to the point of committing physical violence against Luke even just for getting involved.

Most things about his book storyline I'd keep the same (I especially love his time on Dragonstone and eventual takeover, if only for the Sunfyre bond), but I'd definitely flesh out more stuff about his thought process, his feelings, how he as a character reacts to certain things. All in all, I don't think I'd write him much different than how he is now (stupid bad writing aside) I'd just be making a better, upgraded model.

And here's the more detailed posts about Aegon. It's not all of them, cuz I do reblog stuff and I'm a prolific tag talker, but this is all the important stuff in terms of how I view Aegon and some of the wants I have for his arc and trajectory:

Post about Alicent's relationships to her kids where Aegon and their relationship is discussed at length (to the point where I finally hit Tumblr's character limit per paragraph)

Post about how Viserys is the worst where Aegon and their relationship is discussed at length

Some generalized Aegon thoughts

More Aegon thoughts and why the rapist thing was bad writing

Aegon and his brothers

Some theorizing on Aegon and Aemond

Theorizing on Aegon's ultimate fate (spoilers for what that is in case you haven't ready the book and don't wanna know)

Hopes for Aegon in s2

Aegon's subtextual touch repulsion

Sunfyre headcanons post that includes parts of his relationship with Aegon

More Rook's Rest wishcasting (seriously I have like a shot for shot idea of the entire battle in my head)